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Thehunter820
01-17-2008, 12:54 PM
OK so here's a deck I've been running in my school, there's about 10 players but only about 45 are half way competent, one is a Goyf Thresh deck (my best match), some random control decks, ,Goblins, Elves, and a low cost sliver deck running like sacrifice slivers and Oversold Cemetary. I tend to do very well and win against most except the Thresh, its about a 60/40 win percentage with me on the losing side, the goblins cuz they are a bit fast, and the slivers are suprisingly a bit fast to, pulling off turn 3 or 4 sliver legions.

Deck Explanation:
Right now its mono red, basically with creature hate and then haste creatures to end the game with speed, I plan on splashing something but im not sure what exactly yet, any opinions?

So here's my list.

Lands:
Mountains X20

Removal:
Lightning Bolt x4
Incinerate x4
Chain Lightning x2

Spells:
Disintegrate x1 (just cuz?)
Threaten x1 (usually only facing one powerful creature at a time in my meta)
Gauntlet of Might x1
Dragons Claw x1 (I combo these 2 together for mana and life cuz alot of my spells are 1 and 3 i wud take mana burn but the gained life helps that)
Aether Vial x4
Furnace of Rath x1(speeds up my process)
Browbeat x2 (im debating between 2-3 of these)
Brute Force x4 (helps alot when they dont declare blockers u just wail at them)

Creatures:
Lava Runner x4
Hell-Bent Raider x2
Rounin Houndmaster x2
Raging Goblin x4
Vulshok Sorcerer x2
Tarox Bladewing x1 (only have it cuz of flying.)

So any suggestions, dont hate please but i'm open to all suggestions for new/different cards, and also what color should I splash, and what do I take out to splash it and, what of that color do I put in? Keep in mind my usual mad match ups are Combo, because I cant do anything to stop it, so im considering Elemental blast, and enchantments because red doesnt have enchantment removal so the color i splash will probably be green or white, possibly blue.

Media314r8
01-17-2008, 01:29 PM
If you splash, either splash green for goyf, or splash black for discard/ phyrexian negator.

You should be running countryside crusher if you really want to have creatures rather than just burn.

If you want to play burn: just view any of the burn threads in DTW/established decks

If you splash Green: View any of the goyf sligh threads, probably soon adding countryside crusher

If you splash black: view any of the red death threads.

raharu
01-17-2008, 03:51 PM
I would cut 4x Raging Goblin for Mogg Fanatic and the Tarox and the Sorcerers for x3 Rathi Dragon, Since you're already running 20 mountains anyway and they're better damage sources than Fireblasts. Dragon Claw, Threaten, Gauntlet and Disentigrate should be cut for 4x Countryside Crusher, Cut the furnace for another Browbeat, and cut the Vials for Pyroclasm/Pyroblast/ REB.

Tyler's slivers ain't that fast and Cameron's goblins don't have Piledriver (although I admit his half-complete build rapes face and never runs out of gas, even on turn 10-15). You loose most of the matches I've seen you play with Jordan (the thresh player), although that is to be expected, and when he gets his Counterbalances you won't have a chance in hell.

Regardless of whether you know this fellow or not, there's no reason to be so abrupt with him on his choices. If you disagree with them, please let him know why those cards are bad. This is bordering on flaming, so it's gonna stay a verbal warning for now. ~ Nightmare

Thehunter820
01-18-2008, 12:30 PM
I run the goblins because they have haste, so its a first turn damage card, i've considered the mogg fanatic, ill think about it more though.

I dont like rathi dragon because of the sacrifice him or lands ability because my deck tries to kill early on, and I need mana to do so.

I like the vials because they speed up my dropping of creatures.

Aswell the Countryside Crusher is a nice choice but I dont htink it would be that effective as I only get lands once ever 3-5 turns after I get the first 2 or 3 down.

So any ideas of splash colors or better red cards? I'll post my Ssdeboard later.

troopatroop
01-18-2008, 03:13 PM
I run the goblins because they have haste, so its a first turn damage card, i've considered the mogg fanatic, ill think about it more though.

I dont like rathi dragon because of the sacrifice him or lands ability because my deck tries to kill early on, and I need mana to do so.

I like the vials because they speed up my dropping of creatures.

Aswell the Countryside Crusher is a nice choice but I dont htink it would be that effective as I only get lands once ever 3-5 turns after I get the first 2 or 3 down.

So any ideas of splash colors or better red cards? I'll post my Ssdeboard later.


He knows that Raging Goblins have haste. Raging Goblin is a terrible investment for a single card. It's a manila 1/1 for 1. Against everything, that's pretty terrible. I understand you like to get that quick point of damage, but if they ever play a single blocker you got 1 damage for a 1 card investment, and playing burn, you want to have close to a 3 damage to 1 card ratio (see lightning bolt). Raging Goblin does not fit these criteria, and is cut.

Vial is also terrible in a burn deck because, at its core, it's card disadvantage. When playing burn, you need every single card in your hand to punish your opponent with direct damage. How many times have you lost games where you were close to killing them with burn? Maybe one card short? That's not because you were unlucky, it's because you were playing cards that don't do anything powerful outright. You can change that. Vial is good at cheating mana costs, and getting through counters. Neither is necessary in burn.


Let's break down the decklist a bit. These are the cards I'm happy are in the deck.

X: Mountain
4: Lighting Bolt
4: Incinerate
2: Chain Lightning

And to a lesser extent

2: Browbeat
4: Lava Runner
4: Brute Force

And that's about it. I'm not sure how many cards you own, or if you're interested in spending money, or even how good you are. I could possibly think of a decklist for budget sligh if you're interested.


You're going to need to cut most of your three drops, because 2/2s are really stinking awful at 3cc. Blood knight is okay. Grim Lavamancer is good. Lava spike is good. Blistering Firecat/Ball Lightning are pretty good. Here is my take on a budget version of Sligh.

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Incinerate
2 Chain Lightning
4 Lava spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast

4 Ball Lightning
2 Blistering Firecat
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Spark Elemental

3 Cursed Scroll

21 Mountains


Something you might want to consider is 4 Blood Moon and 4 Magus of the Moon in the sideboard. Those are unbelievable bombs in some matchups in this format, including Thresh. Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast are also good. Price of Progress is another unbelievable burn spell, that is somewhat situational. It sounds like it wouldn't do much damage in your metagame tho.

Do you like it?

raharu
01-18-2008, 03:51 PM
Sorcerer ought to be replaced with Grim Lavamancer. It's roughly the same effect on the same sized body and it costs 1R less. They both come online the same turn, and doesn't eat an extra card's worth of mana. Do you really want 20 mountains? Why not -4 Mountains and +4 Barbarian Ring to turn those late game unwanted lands into damage sources? Maybe something like troopatroop's list, but with Grim Lavamancer instead of Spark Elemental (I think that the argument against raging Goblin applies to sparky too). Rift Bolt looks like a fairly good idea, but I think that Fireblast would be better as another creature/ different burn. Maybe green for 'Goyf or black to turn this into Discard+Burn, which looks pretty good from my inital look at it. Maybe Discard+Burn with a few creatures?

Yeah, my card choices earlier should have been explained better, although I've had that conversation with him before.

Thehunter820
01-18-2008, 03:56 PM
Thnx for the advice troopatroop, like i said im considering the mogg fanatics and ill probly be purchasing some of them, however the purpose of the deck isnt burn its creature burn, like just fast red aggro with the burn more or less to clear the way for my creatures unless they play something more powerful that I cant burn ill just finish them off. You do however have some nice considerations ill consider, and I've been planning on replacing the sorcerer's just been debating on what exactly, and i like the 20 mountians cuz in a mono color 16 never gets me enuff, however when I splash I am gonna reduce down to 16.

troopatroop
01-18-2008, 04:22 PM
Thnx for the advice troopatroop, like i said im considering the mogg fanatics and ill probly be purchasing some of them, however the purpose of the deck isnt burn its creature burn, like just fast red aggro with the burn more or less to clear the way for my creatures unless they play something more powerful that I cant burn ill just finish them off. You do however have some nice considerations ill consider, and I've been planning on replacing the sorcerer's just been debating on what exactly, and i like the 20 mountians cuz in a mono color 16 never gets me enuff, however when I splash I am gonna reduce down to 16.

Right. Is your deck faster than mine? Nope. Do the creatures you play somehow win the game in a way that mine don't? Nope. Playing with flat creatures like you do is painfully slow. You'll be lucky to win by turn 6-7. My deck should win about turn 4-5 every game. If you're dead set on playing with red creatures that stick around... fine, but you're gimping your deck by trying to stand by illogical card choices. I understand you're a casual player... but why not win more?


As an archetype, straight burn is one of the cheapest and most effective decks in the Legacy Metagame. You already have 2 Chain Lightnings and the rest of the deck is very very cheap. The reason I'm being so harsh is because you're faced with the decision of building a deck that is Legacy competetive for about 30-35$, and you're opting to stray away from that. Makes little sense to me, but here is a stronger creature base for Sligh if you'd like.


4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Jackal Pup
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Grim lavamancer
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Blood Knight

That should be plenty of beats if you want the deck to be that way.

raharu
01-18-2008, 05:40 PM
In out "Metagame" if you will (the Azle High School metagame, not the Dallas or Austin or Fort Worth Metas), Magus is entirely useless. All basics all around, unless you count my and Jordan's fetches and Jordan's Cities of Brass. Those creatures won't hold thier own here, considering 8/8 Silhana Ledgewalkers and various elves with +10/+10 from a random Wirewood Pride are fairly common here, not to mention they are quite small regardless. Brute Forces actually have a home here, considering that the creatures are intended to be large/ stick around and do some damage for some time, and they protect those creatures really well (at least better than Lightning Bolt). The Keldon Marauders are actually pretty good sugestions that should get into the deck. I'm not so hot for the Lava Runners without any other land distruction. Maybe splash black for Sinkhole and some discard (yet again, my tendancy to splash for black consumes me). Link to that thread in a second.

Rack/Burn (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7716)(I had the name wrong)

I would add more creatures to suit your playstyle, but really I think the deck is solid as it is.

Thehunter820
01-18-2008, 11:26 PM
I've decided im going to upgrade this deck but make a burn deck as well, here's my list, and I should be ordering the cards fairly soon.

4 Fireblast
1 Fork
4 Incinerate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock
4 Browbeat
4 Chain Lightning
4 Flame Rift
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Barbarian Ring
16 Mountain

So what do ya'll think about this?

raharu
01-18-2008, 11:53 PM
Why burn? The deck had an interesting strategy and a different philosophy than anything in the meta? The deck looked better as it was, in my oppinion.

@ your current list: Fork? You could spend RR on better spells tht Fork, and you know it. Unless you want to hve a random 1-of that hoses Storm combo (one-of are always a bad idea. Redundancy is the best think Burn has going for it), this should be something else, although I wouldn't be able to say what off the top of my head. Those shocks could be very well replaced with Fireblast, which would make the deck more explosive than Shock. Maybe Grim Lavamancer (even though they dillute the concept of making the opponent's removal dead)?

Thehunter820
01-19-2008, 04:24 PM
ok first I said im going to keep the deck I have and upgrade it, but im also making this deck, and if u look there's 4 fireblasts in it already, and I put fork cuz I was gonna try 2 shocks and 2 forks. So after you read this what do you think, im considering takin out the fork and a shock to go 2 shock 2 grim lava mancer or just all 4 shocks and put in 4 grim lava mancers.

xsockmonkeyx
01-19-2008, 04:49 PM
(Burn list)

I think that 16 mountains is too few for 4 Fireblasts. 4 Barbarian Ring is also overkill. It's really most effective as a 1-2 of.


PROTIP: Take your burn list to the burn thread. You will get better answers there.

Curby
01-27-2008, 05:57 PM
He knows that Raging Goblins have haste. Raging Goblin is a terrible investment for a single card. It's a manila 1/1 for 1. Against everything, that's pretty terrible. I understand you like to get that quick point of damage, but if they ever play a single blocker you got 1 damage for a 1 card investment, and playing burn, you want to have close to a 3 damage to 1 card ratio (see lightning bolt). Raging Goblin does not fit these criteria, and is cut.

I'd think of it this way: With Raging Goblin, you might get an extra point of damage due to the first attack. With Mogg Fanatic, you will get an extra point of damage by sacrificing it when it would otherwise normally die. Raging Goblin is much more likely to die without dealing any damage, and it can never target a creature with damage. Mogg Fanatic can kill two */1s by itself in combat, or help you kill that */4 with the help of a Bolt.


Vial is also terrible in a burn deck because, at its core, it's card disadvantage. When playing burn, you need every single card in your hand to punish your opponent with direct damage. How many times have you lost games where you were close to killing them with burn? Maybe one card short? That's not because you were unlucky, it's because you were playing cards that don't do anything powerful outright. You can change that. Vial is good at cheating mana costs, and getting through counters. Neither is necessary in burn.

Vial is good for several reasons, most of which don't fit your deck.

1) It allows you to use a fragile manabase: see 4-color Meathooks in my sig. If I don't have a Forest in play, I can still get a Muscle Sliver in play.
2) It allows you to use a tight manabase: I can get creatures and still play spells. I can face land destruction and still get creatures. While your deck could benefit from this, Vial's a bit slow in what's effectively a Sligh deck.
3) It allows you to play combat tricks: You attack with a 2/2, I vial in my 3/3 to block and kill. The point of your deck is to get around blocking and race for the kill, so that's not much of a concern.
4) It gets around counterspells: It might be relevant in your meta, but unless you're playing against Counterbalance you should have sufficient threats to outlast their counterwall.
5) It's best when your creatures have similar casting costs: currently relevant, but your creatures seem a little expensive. Consider using more 1-drops and 2-drops as mentioned above. Jackal Pup is an efficient 1-drop, Keldon Marauders a good 2-drop.

As other have suggested, I'd recommend looking at the other Burn and Sligh threads here and trying out some the ideas presented therein. There is a good overlap in cards so you'll be able to make two decks with maybe 90 cards. Good luck!

DragoFireheart
01-27-2008, 06:07 PM
I guess I have to ask these questions:

Why not run the typical Burn deck?
Chains, Bolts, Rifts, Spikes, Blasts and other quality burn spells?
Why run creatures and give your opponent relevant cards to use against you? How is this deck faster than Burn?

Curby
01-27-2008, 06:21 PM
Maybe Discard+Burn with a few creatures?

At first glance this doesn't seem viable, but feel free to post a list in defense of the idea. My reasoning is that neither Discard nor Burn likes to be in topdeck mode, but all too commonly find themselves in that situation. Combining the two (and simultaneously creating a more vulnerable mana base) doesn't seem like a good idea. Discard decks need solid reusable threats (see Galroth's thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=139875&postcount=49)), and Burn is anything but that. Burn needs to optimize its entire deck around extremely efficient spells in order to kill the opponent as soon as possible, and spending cards and mana on disrupting their hand slows down the deck's kill rate. Against a typical creature deck you'll both end up topdecking, but they'll have a roughly 50% chance of drawing a reusable threat, while your burn will be too slow, and your discard will be too late.


Why run creatures and give your opponent relevant cards to use against you? How is this deck faster than Burn?

I like Burn too, but I see the appeal of Sligh builds. The idea is that creatures are reusable threats. A Bolt does 3 damage in 1turn/1mana/1card. Great, but then what? You'll run out of cards and fizzle. A goyf might do 5 in 2turn/2mana/1card, but it will do 15 in 4turn/2mana/1card against an empty board. Slith Firewalkers do 1 in 1/turn/2mana/1card, but they'll do 10 in 4turn/2mana/1card. Yes, creatures are prone to removal. Yes, they're prone to being blocked or nullified by Moat/Propaganda/etc. However, the gamble with Sligh decks is that they'll give up those downsides for mid-game viability and more damage over time due to its reusable threats. Whether the tradeoff is worth it probably depends on your preferred play style and your metagame.

DragoFireheart
01-27-2008, 06:59 PM
At first glance this doesn't seem viable, but feel free to post a list in defense of the idea. My reasoning is that neither Discard nor Burn likes to be in topdeck mode, but all too commonly find themselves in that situation. Combining the two (and simultaneously creating a more vulnerable mana base) doesn't seem like a good idea. Discard decks need solid reusable threats (see Galroth's thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=139875&postcount=49)), and Burn is anything but that. Burn needs to optimize its entire deck around extremely efficient spells in order to kill the opponent as soon as possible, and spending cards and mana on disrupting their hand slows down the deck's kill rate. Against a typical creature deck you'll both end up topdecking, but they'll have a roughly 50% chance of drawing a reusable threat, while your burn will be too slow, and your discard will be too late.



I like Burn too, but I see the appeal of Sligh builds. The idea is that creatures are reusable threats. A Bolt does 3 damage in 1turn/1mana/1card. Great, but then what? You'll run out of cards and fizzle. A goyf might do 5 in 2turn/2mana/1card, but it will do 15 in 4turn/2mana/1card against an empty board. Slith Firewalkers do 1 in 1/turn/2mana/1card, but they'll do 10 in 4turn/2mana/1card. Yes, creatures are prone to removal. Yes, they're prone to being blocked or nullified by Moat/Propaganda/etc. However, the gamble with Sligh decks is that they'll give up those downsides for mid-game viability and more damage over time due to its reusable threats. Whether the tradeoff is worth it probably depends on your preferred play style and your metagame.

Then why not just simply run Goyf-Sligh? What does this deck do better compared to Goyf sligh? Can this deck compete as a mono-red sligh deck in a format full of those powerful yet fuguly green creatures we all love to hate/ hate to love? Can it race combo? How does this deck deal with nasty red-hate enchantments like Chill or Warmth? [I know burn would have the same issues, but burn also tends to have a faster clock than sligh decks in general]?

raharu
01-27-2008, 09:19 PM
@ kirbysdl: ... You posted the exact same link that I did... srsly.

Yes, 'Goyf should be in this deck, but the interesting thing about this deck is the way it actually plays. With 4x Brute Force, it has a really good MU with a great number of decks. A RG agro-burn deck based from this list would be interesting, if not format-warping. A Skeleton?

3x Rancor
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Brute Force
4x Tarmogoyf

Hunter, get crackin' (FIY, he's not even reading the thread anymore).

Curby
01-29-2008, 08:34 AM
Then why not just simply run Goyf-Sligh? What does this deck do better compared to Goyf sligh?

I'm not saying that he shouldn't run Goyf Sligh. I'm answering your question: "Why run creatures and give your opponent relevant cards to use against you?" That his choice of creatures might be suboptimal doesn't change the fact that creatures can be good in Sligh. :smile:


@ kirbysdl: ... You posted the exact same link that I did... srsly.

I'm pretty sure I didn't. If you're referring to your link to thread 7716 (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7716), I actually posted a link to thread 5507 (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5507). My link was meant to provide support to the idea of numerous permanent threats in pure discard decks, whereas I believe you were pointing towards burn/discard hybrid decks. You did link to a list that seems to combine burn and discard well though, so I did miss something. :frown:

Anyway...

Thehunter820
01-29-2008, 12:38 PM
OK, sry I havent been posting, I have been reading and debating with myself though and here's what im going to buy for a burn deck.

Damage x34:
4 Fireblast
4 Incinerate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
2 Shock
4 Chain Lightning
4 Flame Rift
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt

Land x20:
2 Barbarian Ring
18 Mountain

Creatures x2:
2 Grim Lavamancer

Draw x4:
4 Browbeat


Any opinions before I buy them?

Also I plan on continuing my sligh deck, and yes yes I know 'Goyf is a beast and should be in most legacy decks, but im trying to stick with the mono red thing just so its not a complete copy of goyf sligh.

Here's my new list for that:

Lands x20:
Mountains x18
Barbarian Ring x2

Removal x12:
Lightning Bolt x4
Incinerate x4
Chain Lightning x2
Pyroclasm x2

Spells x13:
Threaten x1
Aether Vial x4
Browbeat x4
Brute Force x4

Creatures x15:
Lava Runner x4
Hell-Bent Raider x2
Rounin Houndmaster x2
Mogg Fanatic x4
Spark Elemental x3

I'm still debating splashing in some black and possibly some green

raharu
01-29-2008, 04:04 PM
Both black and green would be a solid splash.

I must say (again) that AEther Vial is a terrible idea here because it slows your deck down a turn and your creature curve doesn't fit it very well.

Considering our "metagame", I would definantly run 4x Pyroclasm, given the fact that you have trouble getting damage through the swaths of late-game elves. Rancor would be really nice too, if solemy for getting through Brute Force Damage.

Media314r8
01-29-2008, 04:51 PM
Grim Lavamacer + Barbarian Ring = Not a combo.

Since the lavamancers are going to be one of the most expensive cards in your deck, I'd cut them as they are also going against your strategy the most, as they make your opponent's removal relevant.

Perhaps -2 shock (you really want three+ damage out of each card unless it cantrips or scrys, ect.) -2 lavamancer and add +2 flamebreak (kills dudes and does three damage.) and +2 needle drop (not a 1 mana 1 damage spell, but rather turns your bolt into a RR 4 damage spell since it cantrips.)

also, in burn flamebreak >> pyroclasm as it does damage to your opponent as well.

my $.02

Thehunter820
01-29-2008, 08:31 PM
I perfer the pyroclasm only because its cheaper to play therefore speeding up the game, I dont rely on having to use it anyways as they shud be dead before that get that much out.

Umm on the shocks, what would you say I should run, I considered magma jet but it costs more so Im not sure yet.

If I take out the lavamancers what do you purpose I put in?

Oh and yeah raharu i've been thinking the same think, although there are 8 creatures that have the same mana cost it does prove useful although im sure there are better options, what do you purpose?

raharu
01-30-2008, 12:48 AM
The threats you currently run in the sligh build aren't that great. I've noticed that you have a fixation on creatures with haste, which isn't a good thing because there are better cards without haste that are faster/ cheaper. Example: Blood Knight vs. Helbent-Raider. Save haste and the card disadvantage (that is a BIG hit against the Raider, especially in a RR agro deck), they are the same card, and Blood Knight's Pro-white is constant, which means Jordan's 4-of Swords to Plowshares are always dead with regards to it. They start swingin on the same turn as well, which means that the tempo boost from Haste is irrelevant. Essentially, you are playing sub-optimal cards with no logic behind it. You're playing a worse card with worse abilities, simply because it has haste. Why Hunter, Why? Lava Runner is alright, but withour a land-destruction element to back it, why should anyone be afraid to pop it with a Lightning Bolt, much less an Shock? I'm not so sure what I would run in it's place. War Elemental sounds like a good idea considering that you are running mono red, but it's better in the late game. Maybe Slith Firewalker could see some use, but unfortunately, with the way your deck uses burn, I don't think that it would have the chance to make direct contact with the opponent, and it would stay a 1/1 with haste for RR. Not up to snuff here, not at all. I can't way I advocate Spark Elemental, but it gives some more use to your Brute Forces. As to Ronin Houndmaster... Red doesn't have any good three-drops. Sorry, but it's true. Look in the primer for 'Zilla Stompy (for the three-drop slot, they run Bloodrock Cyclops. I have 16 if you want a playset). Truely, this is the best three-drop red has to offer. Sorry.

@ AEther Vial: Ummmmm... Rancor, more burn, Flamebreak, more burn, Magma Jet, did I mention More burn?, more burn, and maybe some Bonesplitter if you insist that you don't want to add green for Qurion Dryad and Rancor (which is quite nice with Dryad and Blood Knight, and Kird Ape, and all the other green creatures that could go into the deck, such as 'Goyf).

Aside: Maybe you should look at Boros Deck Wins! in the Established Decks Forum.

Thehunter820
01-30-2008, 12:58 AM
Mmm interesting I think ill go with the blood knight, I honestly hadnt thought of him, now to acquire some, as for the lava runner, he mine as well be a 2/2 with has that most people wont target unless they are taking serious damage from him, as for the cyclops i've never had much luck because he has to attack each turn so he always gets owned by some fatty, although if you bring me a playset I'll be willing to test it out. and I've thought about running the green in for Rancor and Quirion Dryad as well as Kird Ape.

Media314r8
01-30-2008, 09:08 AM
I perfer the pyroclasm only because its cheaper to play therefore speeding up the game, I dont rely on having to use it anyways as they shud be dead before that get that much out.

Umm on the shocks, what would you say I should run, I considered magma jet but it costs more so Im not sure yet.

If I take out the lavamancers what do you purpose I put in?

Oh and yeah raharu i've been thinking the same think, although there are 8 creatures that have the same mana cost it does prove useful although im sure there are better options, what do you purpose?

@ pyroclasm: If they ARE going to be dead before then, move pyroclasms/flamebreaks to the sideboard. In my experience, toasting all the critters on-bard and dealing three to your opponent for RRR is pretty darn good and fine as a two of maindeck. however, having 4 clasms MD (which don't damage your opponent) allows for the possibility of seeing 2 in a game or worse, having two in hand, as they may not kill everything, and they will never damage your opponent (remember, we're shooting for 3 damage per spell optimally)

@shock: Magma Jet>>> Shock, as it is almost a cantrip, assurig yu will hit the land/next burn spell you need with scry, its card quality. Flame rift is also a possibility, as it does excelent damage for the cost (4 for 1R) it does, however, hurt you which is normally a non-issue, as you usually either win fast or run out of cards and lose.

@ creatures: as I said above, having creatures in a burn deck makes your opponent's removal relevant. If you wanted to run more of a slight deck, with 20 guys, 20 spells, and 20 lands, lavamancer would be fine (as would goyf, ect) in burn, creatures are pretty terrible.

Internet Hate Machine
01-30-2008, 01:20 PM
If you really want to run burn, check out the burn thread in the metagame forum. If you really do want to work on red sligh, however, lets keep at it here.

Thehunter820
01-30-2008, 09:47 PM
Revisions!!

Damage x34:
4 Fireblast
4 Incinerate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Chain Lightning
4 Flame Rift
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt

Land x20:
2 Barbarian Ring
18 Mountain

Creatures x5:
2 Grim Lavamancer
Keldon Marauders

Draw x3:
Needle Drop x3

Just a set im testing, my reason for the marauders is that its a 2 mana 2 or 5 damage that I dont care if they remove and ill be glad if they STP.

Lands x20:
Mountains x18
Barbarian Ring x2

Removal x12:
Lightning Bolt x4
Incinerate x4
Chain Lightning x2
Flamebreak x2

Spells x13:
Threaten x1
Aether Vial x4
Browbeat x4
Brute Force x4

Creatures x15:
Lava Runner x4
Blood Knight x2
Bloodrock Cyclops x2
Mogg Fanatic x4
Spark Elemental x3

If someone has a decent red/green or red/black splash list I'll have a look at it, im currently working out some bugs on my list before I post that.

raharu
01-30-2008, 10:10 PM
In the Sight build: -1 Threaten, +1 Blood Knight. Knight is golden, and while Threaten is good here, it's a sideboard card.

Thehunter820
01-31-2008, 12:30 AM
Yeah i've been debating that as well, 1 of's dont work well, but I also thought about putting in another 1 or 2, as this card is good for playing ppl that run fatties (i.e. everyone at school, and my sligh deck will only be played at school so im still debating it)