[Deck] Mana Burns

[AceofAllan]

Let me state right from the start that the title of the deck doesn't really say anything about the cards in it. I'm not good at naming decks. Some would say I'm not even good at building them.

Second: I'd like to think this deck is very unique, innovative and new, but I don't plan on entering this into the CaNG contest because I don't have the time or energy to test it.

So here goes.

16 x Island
4 x Rishadan Port

You're already skeptical. Just let me finish.

2 x Fog Bank
2 x Wall of Tears

3 x Sapphire Medallion
4 x Ankh of Mishra

4 x Boomerang
2 x Force of Will
4 x Parallax Tide
4 x Propaganda
4 x Portent
4 x Power Sink
4 x Psychic Venom
3 x Slow Motion

I'll get to the sideboard in a minute. You should be able to see the basic strategy without me telling you. Ankh of Mishra + Parallax Tide = remove five lands, then next turn they come back and deal 10 damage. Two ankhs or tides and that's game. Trust me though, there has been more thought put into this deck than that.

Ankh of Mishra is really the keystone of this deck. Having the ankh out creates a game with very few lands in play, which makes the Psychic Venoms drastically more effective. I have the Rishadan Ports and the Power Sinks to help me tap those enchanted lands too. Very few lands also makes Propaganda and Slow Motion infallible. There is no way your opponent should have enough mana to do any combination of attack, keep creatures, survive psychic venoms, and cast spells. Since I won't want to put many lands down either, I had to add the Sapphire Medallion to counteract the ankh for me.

Boomerang is most often used to return lands, both to reduce their available mana and to make them pay to put the land back into play. Sometimes I've used the boomerang to return my parallax tide, return a few lands, ankh damage, and play it again in the same turn. They still have no mana, and they took a good deal of damage.

There are a few decks that will have enough mana to get through the Propagandas to attack. Those decks are the reason that Fog Bank and Wall of Tears are in the deck. Generally, only one or two creatures will be able to attack in a turn, so I don't feel the need for many creatures. I use Fog Bank because it can block just about anything and survive, and Wall of Tears because it would make you spend the mana on the creature again.

Many would debate my choice of Portent. I like it because I can rearrange the cards in your deck to make sure you don't draw what you need right away. I noticed that Brainstorm is most useful when searching for instants, and my deck doesn't really have enough of those to make effective use of that.

The biggest foreseeable weakness of the deck is when it plays against a red burn deck. Now it's time to show you my sideboard.

2 x Fog Bank
2 x Wall of Tears
4 x Chill
4 x Mana Short
3 x Overburden

If it's a red burn deck, I replace the Propaganas with Chills and the walls come out for the mana shorts. This pretty much ruins them for game two and three. Decks with a ton of small creatures can be tricky, but typically the Propaganda can hold them off. For game two and three, I'd sideboard in the overburden. I also have 2 of each the Fog Bank and Wall of Tears. I have them to switch for what seems most useful against my opponent.

Thoughts?

EDIT: I might as well also state that I'm new to the boards here. I've been playing MtG for a long time, but really never realized until this past summer how in depth the game was. I only played with a small circle of friends and never had reason to research what cards were out there. We each had a deck and were equally bad at playing until I met someone who totally demolished my deck every time we played. It was then revealed to me what possibilities there were.

[Maveric78f]

Ok. And what if you don't find your ankhs or they are countered or let's say, they are destroyed ?

Of course it's also auto loss against decks that don't need to play lands to win...

[AceofAllan]

The deck is great at stalling until I find an ankh, which doesn't often take too long anyway. I try to guard the ankhs well, for instance, I save a boomerang or FoW when playing against a deck that I know can destroy/counter it.

It's not the best, I'll admit. I'd like to know what I should add. Constructive criticism is much more appreciated than rude and harsh blathering.

[Maveric78f]

I'm sorry if I've been rude. The fact is that your list looks quite good for the things you want to do. I just think that it's not a competitive concept. Your opponent will not play more than 2 lands each game. Which means that your parallax tide will deal only 4 dmg and 3 turns later.

[ClearSkies]

The deck is great at stalling until I find an ankh, which doesn't often take too long anyway. I try to guard the ankhs well, for instance, I save a boomerang or FoW when playing against a deck that I know can destroy/counter it.

It's not the best, I'll admit. I'd like to know what I should add. Constructive criticism is much more appreciated than rude and harsh blathering.

If you are using FoW to protect your Ankh, wouldn't it make more sense to raise it up to 4? Wouldn't Counterspell be better than Powersink?

For Powersink to be effective, you need at least 2 mana. If you are Powersinking something, you are probably protecting something, either your ankh or your board position. Counterspell does the same thing but it doesn't lose its effectiveness in the late game.

[Cavius The Great]

Would Academy Ruins work in this deck if your anhks get destroyed? I can also see myself running Tangle Wire since you can tap medallions with no negative effect, along with a lot of other of your "passive" permanents.

Misers' Cage is also really good here, since your opponent will be put in the dilemma of whether to hold land cards and take damage, or play them and take damage.

[vigilante]

Here's a thread from a long time ago. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=970&highlight=pirates) You might find it useful.

[Michael Keller]

Just as a side-note: I feel Ankh of Mishra is highly underrated in the format right now. It turns fetch-lands into a potential 5 points of damage, and two inescapable points. Not to mention the damage is colorless. It also shuts down Crucible of Worlds recursion (essentially). Too bad it isn't used as much as it could be.

[AceofAllan]

Would Academy Ruins work in this deck if your anhks get destroyed? I can also see myself running Tangle Wire since you can tap medallions with no negative effect, along with a lot of other of your "passive" permanents.

Misers' Cage is also really good here, since your opponent will be put in the dilemma of whether to hold land cards and take damage, or play them and take damage.

Yes, Misers' Cage and Tangle Wire do look very nice. I wonder where I would fit them in this deck... I used to try to have Annex in there to circumvent the ankh, but I just needed other cards more. I guess I could take out the psychic venoms and power sinks for those. Then I'd feel comfortable removing the Rishadan Ports for the faerie conclave.

What's your thoughts?

About Academy Ruins... This is my biggest problem, really. I admit this is why I will never be quite as competitive as everyone else. I refuse to mix new cards with old. If I build a deck, it will either be pre-8th or post-8th. I have minor OCD tendencies. Let's just blame it on that.

[AceofAllan]

Alright, I've put a lot of thought into it and I'm ready to step it up. I'm going to try this The Source way, no holds barred. I finally agree that it was idiotic to limit myself. I most often play on MWS, so there's no reason to not use new cards, they're all free.

That being said, what could this deck really use? I need to keep the mana costs low, and really beef up the power and help it compete. Isochron Scepter and Chrome Mox need to go in.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Welcome to the Source

Iron Maiden is another card similar to Miser's Cage but I dont know which is better or if either would be good here.

If you had them, or play on MWS then Forcefield might be fun to try.

Dream Tides acts like another Propaganda like effect, kinda. Shuts down Goyfs and Mongooses.

Pendrell Mists/Tabernacle at Pendrall Vale look like good inclusions.

Go up to 4 Force of Will I dont see a reason NOT to run 4.

Parralax Tide + Stifle removes the lands permanently, you should consider it.

I would rather play Mana Leak or Force Spike/Daze than Power Sink. Heck, even Condescend would be better.

I also like Portent here but mostly because you dont play fetches and Brainstorm isnt an option.

Ancestral Vision might make for a good draw spell given that your strategy is to slow things down.

There's a blue Kismet now. Im not sure what the name is. Might be ok.

Good luck.

[raharu]

Blue Kismet = Fozen AEther. It would be fairly solid here. If Ankh wasn't the main win-con, I would sugest turning this into an uber vicious Stasis deck, since the framework is already here (lots of interesting and diferent ideas that aren't standard for Statis.dec, but look promising). Could High Tide be used at a 3-of, so that you can have big turns without having to have a narge number of lands (ex: 5 lands turns into 8 mana, letting you do some redeculious things with Paralax Tide earlier on in the game)? Also, keep those Psychic Venoms. They're a really good fit in the deck. 4 Force in a UU deck is pretty much a must, as well.

[rufus]

How about adding some Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors/Chrome Mox to help you out of the gate a little faster rather than Sapphire Medallion?

Slow controllish deck with lots of blue spells and only 3 Force of Will (This is basically a 4-of card.)

Stifle is good with Parralax Tide and a strong card against storm combo.

Time Elemental is pretty old school, but can work for you in a variety of ways.

You might want to consider some sort of tax effect like Trinisphere or Thorn of Amethyst to prevent your opponent from comboing out under tax.

[outsideangel]

Have you considered a splash?

White gives you Magus of the Tabernacle and some extra Propaganda effects if you want them, plus 'geddon.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Back to Basics seems like a nice fit here considering you play 16 islands.

[raharu]

Frozen AEther + Back to Basics = savage.

Slows down basics, turns off fetches and dual lands. Pretty much savage. Have you thought of adding in some way to sneak in lands into play under Ankh? Maybe some sort of phasing effect? Maybe bounce and replay it?

[AceofAllan]

Wow, they weren't kidding when they said this was THE source for legacy. You guys have some savage ideas for this. I used to use annex to steal lands, but it seemed too slow. I'll keep all of this in mind and see if I can't turn out another prototype.

Thanks everyone.

[raharu]

Well, to be honest, you have produced one of the best "Land Hate" decks, if you will, that I have seen in a long time. With the number of people that use this site, stuff like this just happens. I'm interested in knowng what the next list looks like. I'll be sad if you cut Psychic Venom. It's a really solid recuring source of damage, and in multipules with the deck's ability to lock down your opponent's mana sources I see it possibly being quite the beating.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Yes, the Source is good like that.

As for a new list I might start with something like this:

4 Parrallax Tide
3 Back to Basics
2 Frozen Aether

4 Propaganda
3 Vedalken Shackles

4 Ankh of Mishra
2 Iron Maiden/Miser's Cage

3 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle

4 Portent

4 Wasteland
19 Island

[Oberon]

You could also go the Crucible + Mana Vortex way. <3 Mana Vortex.

[AceofAllan]

Yes, the Source is good like that.

As for a new list I might start with something like this:

4 Parrallax Tide
3 Back to Basics
2 Frozen Aether

4 Propaganda
3 Vedalken Shackles

4 Ankh of Mishra
2 Iron Maiden/Miser's Cage

3 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle

4 Portent

4 Wasteland
19 Island

The stifle is what bothers me here. I mean, permanent removal of lands is great, but that will negate the ankh's usefulness. Of course, I guess you need something in your hand to cast FoW.

[Maveric78f]

If your opponent choses to fetch, it means that he needed that land even at the cost of the life lost due to Ankh. Playing stifle will not prevent him form losing that life if he still wants that additionnal mana source (he will have to find another land, maybe a fetch and play it, and maybe crack it). The same reasoning about Parallax Tide and Stifle. If you want to kill your opponent, you let them go back. If you want to mana deny him, you stifle.

However in the previous deck, I see a lot bad synergy:
- Frozen aether + wasteland
- Ankh + Shackles
- Echoing truth + Ankh (why not play boomerang?)
- Ankh + Parallax Tide is not a good synergy. Your opponent will play 2 lands and a creature (who says tarmogoyf?) and will start beating.
- Parallax tide + B2B

You have to work on that.

[Cavius The Great]

If your opponent choses to fetch, it means that he needed that land even at the cost of the life lost due to Ankh. Playing stifle will not prevent him form losing that life if he still wants that additionnal mana source (he will have to find another land, maybe a fetch and play it, and maybe crack it). The same reasoning about Parallax Tide and Stifle. If you want to kill your opponent, you let them go back. If you want to mana deny him, you stifle.

However in the previous deck, I see a lot bad synergy:
- Frozen aether + wasteland
- Ankh + Shackles
- Echoing truth + Ankh (why not play boomerang?)
- Ankh + Parallax Tide is not a good synergy. Your opponent will play 2 lands and a creature (who says tarmogoyf?) and will start beating.
- Parallax tide + B2B

You have to work on that.


Yeah, his list also runs Portent over Brainstorm and Ponder. :rolleyes:

Maveric, what do you propose as a list?

[Maveric78f]

Brainstorm is bad here. So are portent and ponder, since there is not shuffling effect. You need to dig, not to rearrange. Serum visions or impulse are good at that.

I don't propose anything, since I think that this concept has no competitive future (see one of my previous posts).

[Cavius The Great]

Let me take a crack at it then. :wink:

4 Rishadan Port
10 Island
1 Academy Ruins
3 Quicksand
4 Chrome Mox

4 Serum Visions
4 Stifle
4 Parallax Tide
4 Rune Snag
4 Force of Will
4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Propaganda
3 Intuition
3 Misers' Cage

I think that running 23 land is way to much, becuase of ankh, so I cut the land count to 18 and ran 4 Chrome Mox. This also enables a first turn Anhk or a first turn AK or Rune Snag. I'm also liking Moxen because of a second turn Propaganda. I have to disagree with Maveric, I think this idea has potential. Let me know what you guys think of my list.

[xsockmonkeyx]

However in the previous deck, I see a lot bad synergy:


Yeah, his list also runs Portent over Brainstorm and Ponder. :rolleyes:

The list was thrown together quickly combining old ideas his previous ideas to give a starting point for a new list. The synergy criticisms are valid but you dont have to be rude. I kept Portent from his old list because he mentioned that he liked the library manipulation on the opponent.


I don't propose anything, since I think that this concept has no competitive future (see one of my previous posts).

I appreciate you valuing competitive magic but again you dont have to be rude, especially to new member. Why post anything at all if you dont want to contribute?

[Cavius The Great]

The list was thrown together quickly combining old ideas his previous ideas to give a starting point for a new list. The synergy criticisms are valid but you dont have to be rude. I kept Portent from his old list because he mentioned that he liked the library manipulation on the opponent.



I appreciate you valuing competitive magic but again you dont have to be rude, especially to new member. Why post anything at all if you dont want to contribute?

I wasn't trying to be rude, Monkey, I love you. :smile: So what do you guys think of my list? Should I run creatures or no? What do you guys think? Sea Drake? Rainbow Efreet? Viseling might even be decent with the Ruins.

[xsockmonkeyx]

OK, maybe I was being a bit hasty. Truce?

I think your list needs a bit more to protect you from creatures than 4 Propagandas + Quicksands. The Pendrell cards might be a good choice for that reason.

[raharu]

If someone could find room in the deck you could run a small assortment of creatures and AEther Vial to dodge your own mana restrictions. Also:


- Frozen aether + wasteland
- Ankh + Shackles
- Echoing truth + Ankh (why not play boomerang?)
- Ankh + Parallax Tide is not a good synergy. Your opponent will play 2 lands and a creature (who says tarmogoyf?) and will start beating.
- Parallax tide + B2B

Frozen AEther: Enchantment: 3U

Artifacts, creatures, and lands your opponents control come into play tapped.

kthanxbye.

Ankh + Shackles is not the best idea considering the low land count. Maybe Threads of Disloyalty?

Those last two on the list... What???? The second to last is the core of the deck, and a good idea, and the last has no dissynergy.

[Cavius The Great]

I'm going to build this deck and play it at one of the upcoming Hadley tournaments. That's how much I like this idea. :wink: I'll let you guys know how well I did and will write a report. I already have 4 Force of Will, 4 Wasteland and 4 Chrome Mox, so I said, why not. :tongue: I already have the money cards in the bag. :laugh:

[Cavius The Great]

OK, maybe I was being a bit hasty. Truce?

I think your list needs a bit more to protect you from creatures than 4 Propagandas + Quicksands. The Pendrell cards might be a good choice for that reason.

Sorry for double posting. But I just threw together a list. A lightbulb went up in my head. I thought to myself, why not run Phyrexian Dreadnought since I'm already running 4 Stifle? I did that, and now this deck should be able to handle aggro easily as well as having a great combo and control matchup. What do you guys think? Decent idea, eh?

[raharu]

0_0... You ain't shittin'. That's a really solid thought. I'm suprised that the thought didn't hit everyone simultaneously when reading the origional post... Wow, I feel slow now. Maybe 2x Trickbind is in order?

[xsockmonkeyx]

Sorry for double posting. But I just threw together a list. A lightbulb went up in my head. I thought to myself, why not run Phyrexian Dreadnought since I'm already running 4 Stifle? I did that, and now this deck should be able to handle aggro easily as well as having a great combo and control matchup. What do you guys think? Decent idea, eh?

That thought occurred to me when I saw 4 Stifles staring back at me from the list. However, is 4 Stifles enough to support Dreadnaught? In order to support him you may have to add some trickbinds or other support cards to ensure that Dreadnaught isnt just a dead card in your hand. Not saying it's bad but it's not as cut and dry as adding some Naughts to the current incarnations.

EDIT: What I meant to say is that adding the Naughts and the support cards might dilute your lock strategy. You need multiple pieces as it to maintain control and adding those pieces might do more harm then they are worth. Still its worth testing.

[Cavius The Great]

I'm way ahead of you guys. My list is already running 1 Trickbind for a total of 5 Stifle effects. As for diluting the lock peices, I took out 3 draw spells (Serum Vision) and 2 Misers' Cage (win con) for 4 Dreadnoughts and 1 Trickbind, which shouldn't effect the decks prison theme whatsoever. I'm also running 3 Intuition so that I can search for missing combo peices. I'll hit you guys up with a list after I build the deck and test it with my teammates.

[Maveric78f]

The list was thrown together quickly combining old ideas his previous ideas to give a starting point for a new list. The synergy criticisms are valid but you dont have to be rude. I kept Portent from his old list because he mentioned that he liked the library manipulation on the opponent.

I appreciate you valuing competitive magic but again you dont have to be rude, especially to new member. Why post anything at all if you dont want to contribute?

It's not being rude to underline the inconsistencies of a build. But it would hve been rude not to answer Cavius as he was asking ME a question.

[AceofAllan]

Let me take a crack at it then. :wink:

4 Rishadan Port
10 Island
1 Academy Ruins
3 Quicksand
4 Chrome Mox

4 Serum Visions
4 Stifle
4 Parallax Tide
4 Rune Snag
4 Force of Will
4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Propaganda
3 Intuition
3 Misers' Cage

I think that running 23 land is way to much, becuase of ankh, so I cut the land count to 18 and ran 4 Chrome Mox. This also enables a first turn Anhk or a first turn AK or Rune Snag. I'm also liking Moxen because of a second turn Propaganda. I have to disagree with Maveric, I think this idea has potential. Let me know what you guys think of my list.

Has anyone thought of using Mox Diamond instead of Chrome Mox? It seems to me like a better option because you'd discard lands that you'd never play instead of remove cards that you'd want to play.

[raharu]

Generally a bad idea in a deck with eighteen lands, since you can't reliably use it to accelerate the deck, but a few for the late game would be a feaseable inclusion to test.

[AceofAllan]

My newest version:

14 Island
4 Rishadan Port
2 Academy Ruins

4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Parallax Tide
4 Psychic Venom
4 Power Sink

3 Sapphire Medallion
4 Propaganda
3 Slow Motion
4 Hoodwink
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Mana Leak
4 Force of Will

I tried to abuse the fact that I have the Sapphire Medallion by increasing my colorless cost and decreasing the blue cost. Hoodwink replaced Boomerang, because I typically only return lands or my own artifacts to protect them or Parallax Tide to bring the lands back sooner. Accumulated Knowledge tends to be a 2-3 card draw for one mana (very nice).

I worry about relying on the Tide+Ankh to deal all my damage, so I kept the Psychic Venom. I still feel that Power Sink is necessary because it forces my opponent to tap lands that will be enchanted by Psychic Venom. Sapphire Medallion also adds to the X of that spell. I can use the Rishadan Ports to tap the lands too, but I don't want to rely on them because they're lands (the whole Ankh thing).

Is this an improvement?