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claudio.r
01-19-2008, 07:54 PM
Remember de Nija Erayo deck that won german nationals a couple years ago ? It was a tempo deck that wanted to flip erayo as soon as possible to stall the opponents game. It also had the "2º turn ninja of deep hours" plan going.

We can find this in a forum:

"
4 Breeding Pool
3 Forest
5 Island
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
4 Yavimaya Coast

4 Ornithopter
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Higure, the Still Wind

4 Sleight of Hand
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
3 Disrupting Shoal
4 Repeal

SIDEBOARD:
2 Llanowar Elves
3 Carven Caryatid
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
3 Threads of Disloyalty
4 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Disrupting Shoal

The deck used cheap cards such as Ornithopter, Mishar's Bauble, Repeal and Birds of Paradise to quickly reach the 4-spells-per-turn mark needed to flip Erayo. The 0-power flyers filled another role as well: enabling a turn 2 Ninja of the Deep Hours. A typical ideal game would go like this:

Turn 1: Ornithopter.
Turn 2: Attack, then when your opponent raises an eyebrow you swap it with Ninja of Deep Hours.
Turn 3: Play Erayo (1 spell), play Ornithopter (2 spells), play Repeal on Ornithopter (3 spells), replay Ornithopter (4 spells, flip!). Oh, and attack with the Ninja for another card.
Turn 4: Opponent scoops up cards in disgust.

The deck was popularized by Maximilian Bracht, who won the 2006 German Nationals with it."

The deck also used a strong sideboard against creature decks, normally with 4 of each Carven caryatid and threads of disloyalty.

In the time being, with tempo decks dominating the metagame (******** and even some version of landstill), and understanding that goblins would absolutely steamroll this kind of deck, can we make this a legacy deck ?

This is a scratch from the top of my head:

4 tropical Island
4 flooded strand
4 polluted delta
4 wasteland (don't know if it's a good ideia)
3 Island
1 Forest

4 Birds Of Paradise
4 Ornithopter
4 Ninja Of Deep Hours
4 Erayo, soratami ascendant
3 Higure, the still wind

4 Brainstorm
4 force Of Will
4 Counterspell (double blue ???)
* Daze
4 repeal
... and i definitely need help to get this going.

Any suggestion ?

vigilante
01-19-2008, 09:31 PM
Any suggestion ?
Yep: Erayo Affinity. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7799) Not that I think it's a particularly good deck (or that Erayo is even playable, for that matter), but at least Affinity has a decent chance of dumping it's hand quickly enough to have Erayo come online early. The deck you proposed seems pretty reliant on the Erayo/Ornithopter/Repeal opening hand to get Erayo active early enough to be relevant.

raharu
01-19-2008, 10:01 PM
Erayo Affinity would be a better place for Erayo, even though I don't quite like their lists (over my own. It pretty much gets that Erayo flipped on/before turn 2). Snap back would be better than Repeal, and WTF Lotus Petal!!!!!!! Pretty much the best card for this deck. You should obviously get some Rituals into the deck, but that would require you to make the deck more black based. Discard, anyone? Obviously Thoughtseize, maybe Cabal Therapy. Have fun. Also, where's the Ink Eyes?

Nop
01-19-2008, 10:20 PM
Hi Claudio:

I think a black splash is a good idea for the deck. When it comes to playing multiple spells per turn in order to get that Erayo to flip, two cards come to mind: Cabal Therapy and Snuff Out.

You run a decent amount of cheap creatures, so playing Cabal Therapy and then paying the flashback will effectively disrupt your opponent's hand while netting you two spells.

The deck could use some assistance with handling the format's bigger creature threats. While Repeal can hold them back (and Erayo can make replaying them difficult), having a slot dedicated to creature kill seems beneficial. While the four life loss from Snuff Out is substantial, playing the spell for free might make it worthwhile.

Regarding cards in the deck that you might be able to do without, Higure and Counterspell would be my first cuts. If you're okay with completely abandoning the ninja aspect of the deck, taking out Ninja of the Deep Hours is an option, too (he's not too good for Legacy).

If Higure is out of the deck, you will require another finisher to replace him. You run green for Birds of Paradise, so Tarmogoyf could fit into the deck.

I would recommend adding more drawing/filtering power in the deck so you can find Erayo as early as possible. Perhaps Ponder could fulfill the role?

If you feel like you need to run more counterspells, I think Remand might serve a better role in this deck than Counterspell (as seen in the original list). In a pinch, you can always Remand your own Ornithopter and then replay it.

I also think Snapback is a good idea for the deck, but Repeal is versatile bounce, so it might be worth keeping. I'm not sure what I would take out for Snapback.

For a decklist, here is what I'm thinking:

Lands:
4 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp

Creatures:
4 Ornithopter
4 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf

Spells:
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Repeal
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Snuff Out

However, the deck might not be aggressive enough. This deck might not offer much that Threshold with Counterbalance doesn't. I hope these suggestions have been helpful. Good luck with the deck!

claudio.r
01-20-2008, 08:22 AM
I like your decklist a lot, i just don't know if i want to take out the power of a turn 2 ninja of deep hours. If the opponent doesn't take care of him then he can give you a lot of card advantage. And with ornithopter and birds as first turn drops, turn 2 ninja isn't that rare.

Back when the deck was standard legal, it didn't rely that much on flipping erayo, it was a deck that won more on the fact that it had a huge advantage in resources than most of the decks.

vigilante
01-20-2008, 08:41 AM
i just don't know if i want to take out the power of a turn 2 ninja of deep hours. If the opponent doesn't take care of him then he can give you a lot of card advantage.
In a format currently overrun by giant Tarmogoyfs, it's not going to take very long for an opponent to deal with a non-evasive 2/2. Even if NotDH does go the distance and draws you a few extra cards, the big finisher (Higure) is still pretty underwhelming for Legacy.

Nop has hit the nail on the head....as a U/g aggro-control deck, what can this deck possibly do that Thresh can't?

claudio.r
01-21-2008, 01:27 PM
If we update Nop list with ninja of deep hours we could end up with a hybrid that can play tarmogoyf end still have the turn 2 ninja of deep hours plan.

Finn
01-22-2008, 02:22 PM
Claudio, I abandoned this project almost two years ago for lack of a reasonable win condition. But that was before the days of Tarmo.

I found that Cloud of Fairies and Skyshroud Cutter were both fabulous at getting Erayo into play. In my view, you should try both of them.