PDA

View Full Version : Not Quite That. [NQT]



DragoFireheart
01-22-2008, 09:49 PM
This is a deck concept that I had gotten from testing/reading/brainstorming from various other aggro decks.

I dub this Not Quite That. [Green and Blue aggro]. A little bit of Goyf, Counter, Burn, Draw all with only green and blue.

Creatures
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Troll Ascetic


Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
3 Psionic Blast


Enchantments
3 Rancor


Artifacts
2 Umezawa's Jitte


Lands
3 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
2 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard
[Up for suggestions.]

Quick note: Sideboard is meta-game and will be different. As this deck is currently under construction it would probably be more important to improve the deck first.


The idea is to search your library for threats [Goyf, Troll] and the Jitte/Rancor to equip them to while using light disruption to slow your opponent down.

Llanowar Elves act as a means to give you some mana acceleration for early trolls, give the mana for the trolls regen and another target for rancors/jittes, while Coiling Oracle acts as a means to be pitched to force, chump block, another target for rancors/jittes aid in digging through your deck more quickly and give you more tempo through land drops. A nice set up could be a first turn ponder with a land second from the top, followed by a 2nd turn snake.

I included the very cool yet very mana-expensive Psionic Blast as a means to either be a damage dealing finisher and/or removal. Echoing Truth acts as a multi-purpose spell to do several things:

- Slow down the opponents game by bouncing key permenants away.

- Save my own creatures from removal spells.

- Act as a main deck solution to token crazy cards [Bridge from Below, Empty the Warrens, etc] or masses of same-creature swarms [Breakfeast].

For cantrips, I use the best of the best: Brainstorm and Ponder, to help improve the quality of my draws.

I feel guilty not using FoW in any blue deck that I can. There are a total of 19 blue spells, 23 with FoW. I felt that I would have enough blue spells to run FoW.

Some notes about this deck compared to Thresh:

- This deck doesn't rely on the graveyard for threshold, preventing graveyard hate from hurting you.

- By going only 2 colors, you obtain an extremely stable mana base compared to 3-color thresh decks, which prevents Land-destruction/Blood Moon decks from denying you the mana you need.

- Gives you an excuse to use Troll Ascetic: Because of the extra mana accel this deck uses he can chump block Goose/Goyf all day and all night until the cows come home. Troll + Jitte + Rancor = bye bye mass gobbos.

- A Rancor on a Goyf will end games VERY quickly, regardless of what chump blockers get in his way.

Any suggestions or feed back for this deck would be most apperciated.

Brushwagg
01-22-2008, 10:08 PM
A few questions:

1. How is this a better choice over U/G NQG?

2. Do you really need the Elves? Wouldn't Mongoose serve as a better 1 drop at any point in the game?

3. Coiling Oracle? Wuldn't Dryad, Werebear, or anything else serve a better function in the deck?

I don't like being negative but I think these are some questions you really have to answer.

raharu
01-22-2008, 10:15 PM
First things first: Psionic Blast????? Why not Daze in this slot? Psionic Blast simply looks really weak here. If you want burn, run red and compromise your land base. Otherwise, run Daze please. With Coiling Oracle (you found the perfect deck for this card) you pretty much get an absoutely free, completely unexpected Force Spike, coming from out of nowhere.

Second: I like the deck. I like it a lot. I'm not s sure on the Lanawar Elves though. Maybe BoP (wouldn't they be better with Rancor, though worse with Jitte)? In all honesty, you might want to run CounterTop to proetct your threats better, and you might also want to add some Mongeese.

A general Sideboard:

Krosan Grip x3
Tygrodon Predator (spelling?) x2
Stifle x3
7x whatever

DragoFireheart
01-22-2008, 10:53 PM
A few questions:

1. How is this a better choice over U/G NQG?

2. Do you really need the Elves? Wouldn't Mongoose serve as a better 1 drop at any point in the game?

3. Coiling Oracle? Wuldn't Dryad, Werebear, or anything else serve a better function in the deck?

I don't like being negative but I think these are some questions you really have to answer.

1. I made a few points at the end of my post as a few ways this deck could be better than most thresh decks.

2. Elves gives me mana accel for early trolls, to give said trolls mana for their mana intensive regen ability and act as a mana source for equiping jittes. Also, I can not equip Rancors/Jittes to a mongoose, while my elves can still use rancor/jitte.

3. A rancored/Jitted Goyf or Troll will be more than powerful enough board postion. Werebear needs the graveyard to get big while Dryard is terrible late game. Neither of those two can be pitched to FoW and snake can draw through my deck more quickly.

Again, my deck will need some testing as most of this is theory.

DragoFireheart
01-22-2008, 10:59 PM
First things first: Psionic Blast????? Why not Daze in this slot? Psionic Blast simply looks really weak here. If you want burn, run red and compromise your land base. Otherwise, run Daze please. With Coiling Oracle (you found the perfect deck for this card) you pretty much get an absoutely free, completely unexpected Force Spike, coming from out of nowhere.

Second: I like the deck. I like it a lot. I'm not s sure on the Lanawar Elves though. Maybe BoP (wouldn't they be better with Rancor, though worse with Jitte)? In all honesty, you might want to run CounterTop to proetct your threats better, and you might also want to add some Mongeese.

A general Sideboard:

Krosan Grip x3
Tygrodon Predator (spelling?) x2
Stifle x3
7x whatever

1. I'll test it with Daze, though Daze is somewhat counter-productive as I need lots of mana for Trolls and Jittes.

2. I don't need multiple colors, so BoP is not needed. On the other hand, I need GG mana for trolls and mana for regen/jitte. Elves can also be equiped with Rancor/Jitte to be a threat.

I didn't think about using counter/top as since I don't rely on sending stuff into the yard and can afford to use more permenants, though that's a lot of mana between jitte and troll regen.

Again, mongoose is counter productive as he can't use rancor/jitte.

Media314r8
01-22-2008, 11:22 PM
Needs more Riding the Dilu Horse. Yeah, that's right, you might wanna go look that one up.

Dilu Horse seems better than Racor, as Goyfs can grow to 6+ toughnes, which is generally bad news bears for a troll even with rancor. I suppose jitte helps there. (they need a Sword of Smiting Goyf something like

3 Sword of Smiting Goyf
equip 2
equipped creature gets +2/+2 and pro-green
Whenever equpped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may destroy target non-land permanant with CMC 2 or less and return a land from your graveyard to your hand.

EDIT: now tht I think of it, Dilu horse adds the attribute '+2/+2 and horsemanship', its not an enchant-creature (or aura or whatever) so If you dilu a troll, both he and his +2/+2 survive deeds (assuming you have regen mana open)

raharu
01-23-2008, 12:05 AM
3 Sword of Breaking the Format with an Equipment
equip 2
equipped creature gets +2/+2 and pro-green
Whenever equpped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may destroy target non-land permanant with CMC 2 or less and return a land from your graveyard to your hand.

Fixed.

Media314r8
01-23-2008, 09:52 AM
3 Sword of Smiting Goyf
equip 2
equipped creature gets +2/+2 and pro-green
Whenever equpped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may destroy target creature with power 5 or greater and return a land from your graveyard to your hand.

FIXED?

FoolofaTook
01-23-2008, 09:54 AM
I like the original deck a lot. It has a nice little punch to it and it also disrupts reasonably well, all while incorporating enough draw to keep up with the opponent.

A couple of minor suggestions would be removing two Troll Ascetics and replacing them with Serendib Efreets. You need a couple of flyers in there somewhere and the GG1 cost of the Ascetics is a bit much to include 4 of them. Also, I'd find room for two Krosan Grip maindeck, it's the number one hoser in Legacy atm because it handles CB/Top, Humility, Crucible and Chalice at 1 which is one of the huge vulnerabilities in the deck.

In the bigger picture I'd see if it was possible to incorporate CB/Top in the deck. That may not be possible, but it's such an amazing disruption engine in a deck full of 1cc and 2cc spells.

What you have there looks very promising.

Shtriga
01-23-2008, 10:34 AM
I like it. it might need some refining but looks like a nice alternative to thresh

Pinder
01-23-2008, 01:44 PM
The deck looks promising, but probably still needs some work. A few things:

Are you comfortable running only 4 slots of countermagic? Do you find yourself able to counter the things you want with just the Forces? I agree that Daze looks nice here (or even Counterspell, maybe, but that might be too mana intensive), though not necessarily in place of PsiBlast (which I sort of like here, to be honest). Also, I read all the reason for Coiling Oracle, but he still seems sort of meh. Sure, he's can dig, and he pitches to Force, but in that case why not just run Serum Visions or Portent? I realize Coiling Oracle has a body, but at most it's going to chump block, because if you have to Rancor/Jitte that guy up to push through damage, something has gone horribly wrong.

Speaking of bodies, I agree on Efreet. Huge, evasive, relatively cheap and excellent when Rancor'd or Jitte'd. I like Troll here, though (Troll+Rancor = svg combo), so maybe you can ditch the Oracles for big nasty flying beaters?

DragoFireheart
01-23-2008, 02:10 PM
The deck looks promising, but probably still needs some work. A few things:

Are you comfortable running only 4 slots of countermagic? Do you find yourself able to counter the things you want with just the Forces? I agree that Daze looks nice here (or even Counterspell, maybe, but that might be too mana intensive), though not necessarily in place of PsiBlast (which I sort of like here, to be honest). Also, I read all the reason for Coiling Oracle, but he still seems sort of meh. Sure, he's can dig, and he pitches to Force, but in that case why not just run Serum Visions or Portent? I realize Coiling Oracle has a body, but at most it's going to chump block, because if you have to Rancor/Jitte that guy up to push through damage, something has gone horribly wrong.

Speaking of bodies, I agree on Efreet. Huge, evasive, relatively cheap and excellent when Rancor'd or Jitte'd. I like Troll here, though (Troll+Rancor = svg combo), so maybe you can ditch the Oracles for big nasty flying beaters?

I do like the idea of Efreet, and Daze would be nice except for the fact that it sets me back mana.

Also, the Oracle as the effect of being able to drop a land even after you have done a land drop for the turn. He will also make use of jitte should my other threats die somehow. Were I not running jitte I probably wouldn't bother with him.

Maybe I could do this:

-2 Troll
- 4 Echoing Truth

+ 2 Serendib Efreet
+ 3 Daze
+1 Krosan Grip

Media314r8
01-23-2008, 02:36 PM
I really think that Riding the Dilu Horse deserves playtesting, as it makes your guys unblockable, and doesnt die to deed and EE like rancor does. Also, consider that an opposing goyf may become large enough to just block your rancor'd Troll.

DragoFireheart
01-23-2008, 02:43 PM
I really think that Riding the Dilu Horse deserves playtesting, as it makes your guys unblockable, and doesnt die to deed and EE like rancor does. Also, consider that an opposing goyf may become large enough to just block your rancor'd Troll.

Riding the Dilu Horse is a sorcery, not an enchantmet.

... which is kinda cool.

http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=16227

However, it costs 3 mana.

Wobbles The Goose
01-23-2008, 05:41 PM
Needs more Riding the Dilu Horse. Yeah, that's right, you might wanna go look that one up.

Now tht I think of it, Dilu horse adds the attribute '+2/+2 and horsemanship', its not an enchant-creature (or aura or whatever) so If you dilu a troll, both he and his +2/+2 survive deeds (assuming you have regen mana open)

While this is true now (and maybe the for the forseeable future, considering it's not a card that comes up often), it's almost certainly an oversight in converting the portal cards to proper wording. Before you drop cash on a playset of RtDH, keep in mind that the card was intended to be an until end of turn effect, and the FAQ for P3K even mentions this: http://www.wizards.com/magic/p3k/p3k_faq.asp

DragoFireheart
01-23-2008, 08:28 PM
What do you guys think about Pongify / Ovinize?

http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=44367

Pongify

Instant

U

Destroy target creature. It can’t be regenerated. That creature’s controller puts a 3/3 green Ape creature token into play.

It kills Gofys/Enforcers/other big creatures [with that annoying drawback]. What's interesting about it is that it can be used to turn one of my small elves/snakes into a 3/3.

http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=44359

Ovinize

Instant

1U

Target creature loses all abilities and becomes 0/1 until end of turn.

I need to have a blocker out to kill said creature or I need to have at least 1 counter on jitte to kill the creature. I can kill anything from a Goyf to a DarkSteel Colossus

Pinder
01-23-2008, 11:04 PM
Pongify


It kills Gofys/Enforcers/other big creatures [with that annoying drawback]. What's interesting about it is that it can be used to turn one of my small elves/snakes into a 3/3.


This interesting. And the drawback is mitigated by the fact that your creatures are likely to be much larger. And turning your small guys big is a nice touch, too.

On the other hand...



Ovinize


No. In pretty much every way this could be good (DSC notwithstanding), Pongify would likely be much better.

FoolofaTook
01-24-2008, 10:31 AM
The reason I'm not sold on 4 Troll Ascetics is the GG1 casting cost. Once your opponent starts wasting or sinkholing Tropical Islands it's going to give you some very nasty choices with your fetchlands.

Do you go get a Forest with the first one to give you a good shot at dropping a Trop and casting the Acetic or do you go for another Trop to power your blue stuff?

Fetching Islands is something a deck like this really wants to do early on but you won't be able to afford to if Troll Ascetic is where you want to be on turn 4.

Shtriga
01-24-2008, 12:29 PM
what could you put in troll's place then? I don't think anything compares (shroud+regen is massive)

trygon predator
nimble mongoose
serendib efreet
river boa
...

or just cut the trolls to 3/2 and add another creature/another jitte/another psi blast, or switch something around to include pongifys

freakish777
01-24-2008, 12:42 PM
Trygon Predator is my vote for anything taking Troll's place. They have to drop Deed and detonate it for 3. Moat? Blow it up. They Abyss? Blow it up. Enchantress's Presence? Blow it up. Crucible of Worlds? Vial? Blow it up. Counterbalance? Shackles? Exploration? You get the picture. There's a lot of control oriented decks that are relying on enchantments and artifacts to try and trump your threats. Even a SDT on your opponent's side of the table, you force them to spend an additional 1 every turn if they want to keep it. Flying over a Goyf standoff is pretty good too.

DragoFireheart
01-24-2008, 12:48 PM
This could be another suggestion for a deck lay-out:

Creatures
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Troll Ascetic
1 Trygon Predator
1 Serendib efreet


Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Pongify / 3 Pongify - 1 Echoing Truth


Enchantments
3 Rancor


Artifacts
2 Umezawa's Jitte


Lands
3 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
2 Wooded Foothills

I want to do some testing with Pongify.

-Another change that this deck could have is to take out the Rancors/Jittes for Counter-Top to go a more controllish route.

-If I were to go a third color, I would probably go white for swords until I saw a better color choice to go along with. For now though I would like to see if keeping the deck at two colors is a optimal choice.

-Another thing this deck may be able to do is use U/G Threshs land-destruction shell [Wasteland, Stifle] in a heavy thresh meta. The reason my first deck doesn't have this is because my meta lacks a great deal of dual lands for land destruction to be worth while.

Shtriga
01-24-2008, 01:14 PM
if you take out the rancors, maybe 1 more jitte is in order. and I'd personally play 2 trygons and 2 trolls instead of 1 with +1 efreet

the LD package is more of a techy thing, it only shines if your opponent is playing a 3+ color deck, they can play around it on a mono or 2 color deck without much hassle. so it really depends on what you face and I wouldn't MD it here.

although stifle is a swiss army knife of cards pretty much anywhere. but don't know where you would find the room for them. they'd fit very well in the SB though, along with the 3 remaining echoing truths for storm/ETW

and /sad, no more psi blasts, my inner Timmy loves those :)

DragoFireheart
01-24-2008, 01:48 PM
if you take out the rancors, maybe 1 more jitte is in order. and I'd personally play 2 trygons and 2 trolls instead of 1 with +1 efreet

the LD package is more of a techy thing, it only shines if your opponent is playing a 3+ color deck, they can play around it on a mono or 2 color deck without much hassle. so it really depends on what you face and I wouldn't MD it here.

although stifle is a swiss army knife of cards pretty much anywhere. but don't know where you would find the room for them. they'd fit very well in the SB though, along with the 3 remaining echoing truths for storm/ETW

and /sad, no more psi blasts, my inner Timmy loves those :)

Perhaps there may be room for the psi blasts, but they suffer the same problem that lightning bolt suffers: it just can't kill a gofy. Granted, it deals 4 damage, but it also costs 3 which could make it victim to a daze.

On the plus side it cost 3, so it avoids Counter-top more often than not.

FoolofaTook
01-24-2008, 02:28 PM
what could you put in troll's place then? I don't think anything compares (shroud+regen is massive)

trygon predator
nimble mongoose
serendib efreet
river boa
...

or just cut the trolls to 3/2 and add another creature/another jitte/another psi blast, or switch something around to include pongifys

I'd keep a couple of trolls and put in a couple of Serendib Efreets for a flyer, as I said above. I think the Mongooses are a stronger option, however the elves do accelerate mana and can save you from being killed by an early wasteland or sinkhole.

The Serendib Efreet trades off Shroud and Regen for Flying and unboltability. It's not strictly speaking an equal trade, but it's pretty close in terms of effectiveness.

FoolofaTook
01-24-2008, 02:32 PM
This could be another suggestion for a deck lay-out:

Creatures
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Troll Ascetic
1 Trygon Predator
1 Serendib efreet


Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Pongify / 3 Pongify - 1 Echoing Truth


Enchantments
3 Rancor


Artifacts
2 Umezawa's Jitte


Lands
3 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
2 Wooded Foothills

I want to do some testing with Pongify.

-Another change that this deck could have is to take out the Rancors/Jittes for Counter-Top to go a more controllish route.

-If I were to go a third color, I would probably go white for swords until I saw a better color choice to go along with. For now though I would like to see if keeping the deck at two colors is a optimal choice.

-Another thing this deck may be able to do is use U/G Threshs land-destruction shell [Wasteland, Stifle] in a heavy thresh meta. The reason my first deck doesn't have this is because my meta lacks a great deal of dual lands for land destruction to be worth while.

In my opinion this is slightly stronger than the initial build because it has flyers incorporated and Pongify is an excellent two way card in a meta full of Goyfs, Tombstalkers and Dark Confidants. Throw in the fact that it works well on half your creatures too and it's a winner.

Shtriga
01-24-2008, 05:36 PM
still, there's like a million spells that efreet dies to, that troll wouldnt. pongify, smother, ghastly demise, stop, bounce+counter, snuff out, all of these see play (well except for pongify :P)

but 4 trolls might be unnecessary, I think I'll start testing this deck in MWS with 2 trolls and 2 trygon/efreet

DragoFireheart
01-24-2008, 06:51 PM
I have one final version of the deck that I had in mind.

I could go with the a removal-less version and simply add more threats to the deck. I throw in a single Krosan Grip to deal with Counter Top and other annoying enchantments/artifacts, a single Echoing Truth for random jank/tokens and remove the 3 rancors for 3 jittes.

Creatures
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Troll Ascetic
2 Trygon Predator
2 Serendib efreet


Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
1 Echoing Truth
1 Krosan Grip

Artifacts
3 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands

2 Forest
5 Island
1 Breeding Pool
4 Tropical Island
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta

Could someone be kind enough to test the deck with and without Pongifys?

Shtriga
01-25-2008, 11:15 AM
did a couple of games today, I played like shit because I have my head full with other stuff at the time and couldn't focus for the life of me. but, it felt ok, and I still won most games, which were a UB stiflenought deck (I lost the 3rd and final because he duressed my krosan grip that would kill his nought ftw, I threw away the first one because I had my head elsewhere and let a nought+stifle resolve with a fow and 2 dazes in hand -_-), a UBW reanimator deck and a UG thresh deck

youre packing a counter and cantrip suite nearly identical to thresh lists, but your trolls and jittes make it so you have the upper hand in combat (save for mystic enforcer). flying creatures are also tight

pongify was a MVP many times, they definitely never see it coming and it kills ALL creatures in the format (well, relevant ones) sans for shroud and goblin piledriver. and echoing truth is randomly awesome sometimes, I had 2 in my list (I was running the latest version with -2 efreet -1 troll -1 land, +3 pongify +1 echo truth). I'd like to be running more than 1 grip MB but there's no room, so the others went on the SB

the 1/1 creatures feel kind of weak sometimes, the drawing effect on the oracle is nifty, so is the mana accel on elves, but there might be better choices for creatures (although that would end in a quasi-thresh list no doubt). but the elves make it a lot easier to deal with trolls and other random stuff like jitte'ing a creature turn 3


update: been playing some more, from my experience it has a great matchup against conventional thresh lists (atleast the UG, and UGR versions, slightly worse against black because of their removal and haven't played a white one yet). got utterly thrashed by some funky rogue deck that played spellbook (lol?) and a million other 0 casting cost spells, along with glimpse of nature/concordant crossroads/hunting pack storm combo, because he had 18698461 pacts of negation for my forces and stifles :/ (more like, I forced his first glimpse which he pacted, once that failed I could only win by stifling the storm, but he drew 3 more pacts while he was going off :( - and lol at Legends, having 3 identical red creatures)

DragoFireheart
01-27-2008, 08:12 PM
I can't help but think that because of the number of 3-cc cards this deck runs that main-decking the counter-top combo would destory lots of decks that counter-top in Thresh normally couldn't.

FoolofaTook
01-28-2008, 11:58 AM
I can't help but think that because of the number of 3-cc cards this deck runs that main-decking the counter-top combo would destory lots of decks that counter-top in Thresh normally couldn't.

That's going to mean no Ponder and fewer creatures. You'll be losing a Sorcery in the yard and getting Threshold later. Alternately you could try going Daze-less. I'm seeing some Daze-less Threshold lately and it doesn't seem to be all that less effective. It gives up a little in the first few turns for stability later on.

If you go Daze-less you have to be running Pongify and Krosan Grip though. Removal is at a premium when more threats are leaking in early.

Shtriga
01-28-2008, 12:04 PM
I really like daze because it will delay your opponent 1 turn, since they wil always try to keep 1 mana open to play around it. even if you don't have any in the hand.

balance+top is very powerful but so overrated, it's almost like tarmogoyf. I'd put it in the SB along with the stifles

FoolofaTook
01-28-2008, 04:22 PM
I really like daze because it will delay your opponent 1 turn, since they wil always try to keep 1 mana open to play around it. even if you don't have any in the hand.

balance+top is very powerful but so overrated, it's almost like tarmogoyf. I'd put it in the SB along with the stifles

A good opponent doesn't play as though you have the cards to stop him in the early game. He makes his plays and if you have the answer you have the answer. Waiting to make a play because you're afraid of Daze, particularly when you are on the draw, is like giving your opponent tempo and a half at the start. There are a few exceptions to the rule but generally speaking you need to maintain aggressive play against a counter control deck or you are just bowing to the inevitability of their effective turn 4 or 5 win. You may lose anyway but trying to wait them out is just giving them time to make their run.

CounterTop is the most powerful early combo in play at this point. There are some decks that can't take best advantage of it and there are a few decks that don't bow to it, but it's the effect in play that I least like to see hit the board against me early on.

Shtriga
01-28-2008, 05:24 PM
well, CB/top is definitely one of the most powerful effects in the format right now. but we're recently looking at a shift on many decks where they are investing more on the 3cc slot. although some thresh decks are adapting to that as well

maybe taking out the 1-ofs silver bullets, and maybe 3 pongifys (which are the serendib efreets in DragoFireheart's list, and 1 troll) for 3 CB and 2 tops, and 1 land (going to 19) for the 3rd top? the combo kinda makes up for the removal, and if necessary they can come from the SB on the next games (as pongify are awesome vs some creatures - pongifying a dreadnought is priceless, but meh or very bad against others)

-1 echoing truth (SB)
-1 krosan grip (SB)
-3 pongify (SB) (or in the above case, -2 efreet -1 troll)
-1 land
+3 CB
+3 top

I've also been trying nimble mongoose in place of coiling oracle. it's certainly a better creature, but oracle has some nice tempo advantage granting you 1 extra land drop (however, with oracle and elves sometimes I even had too much mana), and it starts looking too much like regular thresh :/

DragoFireheart
01-30-2008, 02:37 PM
Sorry for the lack of updates. I simply don't have enough tournaments to go except during the weekends.

I'll test this deck with jitte and then with counter-top.