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Jak
02-03-2008, 10:00 PM
I am interested in building a new deck. I have been playtesting a ton of different ones and really liked playing thresh, but chose not to because I really just don't want to be another aggro-control player. I knew I wanted to play something Comboish with a lot of protection. This brought me to Salavagers.

The deck looks awesome and the way to win seems fun. I looked at some past threads and saw no one playing Orim's Chant and CounterTop. These were like 6 months ago, but these cards just seem crazy good. Not so sure about CounterTop, but Chant is too good.

This means it needs an update. I know the deck needs a backup strategy like all good combos. Something like Goyf or Dreadnought. I really want there to be a good discussion on the deck so that when I test I can test multiple ideas. Anyway, I thought I would give a list of possible cards and then post a sample decklist.

Lands
Ancient Tomb- accels into Salvager, Trinket Mage, etc.
6-8 Fetches- provides shuffle effects and color fixing.
Tundra and Basics- These would round it out. I was thinking about having 16 lands.
Chrome Mox- accel

Combo
Auriok Salvagers- the way to combo.
LED- the way to get infinite mana.
Aether Spellbomb- the main spellbomb used to win. Bounces annoying permanents
Pyrite Spellbomb- used if needed to win now.

Protection/Control
Force of Will- free counter.
Orim's Chant- stops all of their counters, removal, extirpates, etc.
Meddling Mage- synergy with spellbomb (draw all mages, bounce all their stuff, play mages naming important cards, and the win attacking) and allows the aggro win.
Counterbalance- great in the meta, but may be mana intensive.
Spell Snare- good hard counter that hits a lot in the meta.
EE- good tutor target for Trinket Mage.
Pithing Needle- read above.

Tutors/Draw
Trinket Mage- Tutors combo pieces and allows a toolbox
Merchant scroll- tutors for Chants or forces. Basically another Counter.
Brainstorm- I play blue and this draws 3.
Ponder- Digs 4 cards.
Intuition- gets the combo pieces I need.
SDT- awesome with CB and is great on its own. Can be tutored for.

Alt. Win
Stifle Dreadnought- Big and wins in 2 turns. Nought can be tutored for.
Goyf- Gets big and doesn't require stifle.

So this is a shell I was thinking of.

Lands
18 Lands
4 Chrome Mox

Combo
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Pyrite Spellbomb

Protection/Control
4 Orim's Chant
4 Force of Will

Tutors/Draw
4 Trinket Mage
4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Diving Top

Then add the mentioned cards above or add more copies of cards to fill the list out. I hope we can get a good discussion on this.

Jaynel
02-03-2008, 10:28 PM
It is a good idea, however it get hits from a lot of splash damage. Chalice at 0 and 1 is a beating, and so it graveyard hate and creature hate. So, it seems that Counterbalance would be good because that covers a lot of your bases, especially since you're going to be hand-less for important part of the combo when you get the infinite mana through LED.

Here was my take. I went with Stifle-Nought as the alternate kill, because splashing a bad color for Tarmogoyf didn't seem strong.

Mana :
3 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Academy Ruins
3 Chrome Mox

Combo/Tutor:
4 Trinket Mage
3 Auriok Salvagers
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 AEther Spellbomb

Blue Cards and Top:
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
3 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Divining Top

"Oh Shit" Button:
2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Stifle
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle


Side:
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Counterbalance
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Echoing Truth/Rebuild
3 Back to Basics

The deck is awesome in Vintage because of Moxen and Mana Drain, and the lack of creature removal that can handle an ass of 4. We lack the fast acceleration and have a plethora of good removal (though Salvagers does dodge Smother), so I'm not sure how successful this deck will be. It could definitely surprise some metagames as a control-combo deck.

Jak
02-03-2008, 11:55 PM
I think a build where you can establish control with CouterTop early will be very good. Protection like:

4 Orim's Chant
4 Force of Will
4 CB
4 Spell Snare
1 EE

This would be awesome. Then draw and search:

4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Diving Top
4 Intuion
4 Trinket Mage

That would be 32 slots. Add 22 mana sources. So 54.

The combo:

4 Salvager
4 LED
2 Aether
1 Pyrite

11+54=65 :(

I just want to make the deck with a ton of control, but I want to be able to assemble the combo by turn 4. And that was without a backup plan. I guess I could cut down the artifacts to 1, but that seems really fragile.

from Cairo
02-04-2008, 12:22 AM
This combo seems very bad in the current meta (Not as an attack on the deck/designer, but just from playing with the idea, given current deck trends). It gets bombarded with spash damage found in almost every deck/sb.

Counterbalance, Chalice of the Void, Tormod's Crypt, Leyline of the Void, Swords to Plowshares, and Pithing Needle all ream it and are all very popular.

Jak
02-04-2008, 12:56 AM
The deck does run counter magic. Breakfast is playable and it gets hosed by these cards too. Bouce or Disenchant effects are needed but the deck can work.

Silverdragon
02-04-2008, 02:09 AM
http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6121&highlight=bomberman

Been there, done that...
Well, no Orim's Chants but I think I can give you some good advise.
1. Ancient Tomb is bad. The only thing it can reliably accelerate into is Salvagers. Playing a 1cc Artifact and activating it generally is not worth the 2 damage.
2. One Lion's Eye Diamond is enough. Assuming you play with Top + Shuffle effects + Cantrips + at least 3 Trinket Mages you should be able to get it when you need it. Maybe 2 is the right number in case you get crypted.
3. Uw loses to any and all aggro decks out there. I splashed red originally against Goblins and it helped immensely. This would also give you the option to use Pyrite spellbomb on some annoying critters (like Meddling Mage) pre combo so you wouldn't have to search for Aether Spellbomb. Speaking of
4. Aether Spellbomb only deals with creatures so you need some more stuff to deal with Solitary Confinement, Leyline etc. I tried to solve this by including a singleton Cunning Wish in my list but I'm not sure this is the optimal way to adress these issues.
All in all this deck sometimes (well most of the time) has problems assembling the 3 card combo of Salvagers, LED and a finisher and also put it on the table in a reasonable amount of time (digging for a Salvager and also putting him into play is a lot of mana) so I don't think it is a viable deck right now.