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Rood
02-04-2008, 10:57 PM
I've been playing this deck now for a little over a year...back when the purpose was slower and tended to fail miserable in specific matchups such as Goblins. However I transformed the deck into more of a control deck with a "combo finish." Anyway's the list:

"Dreadstill" By Rodney Hannigan

Lands
2 [MM] Island (3)
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
5 [IA] Island (2)
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [REW] Wasteland
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
1 [B] Volcanic Island

// Creatures
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [CS] Counterbalance
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [10E] Pithing Needle
4 [OD] Standstill
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
1 [TSP] Trickbind
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [6E] Chill
SB: 3 [US] Back to Basics

Card Choices:

Mana Base: Pretty simple concept here. Basic Islands + Fetchlands are savage with Braintrain/Top. Also Wastelands tend to be a valid way to disrupt the oponents mana base and help immensely under Standstill. The factories are also in here to chump random shit like Mongoose and abuse the Standstills as well. Duel is in here only for the sole purpose of EE for 2 in case you need to kill a Goyf or something.
Nought-Perhaps the most undercosted beater in the game next to Goyf. This is absolutely the heart and soul of this deck and he has the potential to just sometimes pull that "oops i win" game because he is so explosive.
Trinket Mage- Utility here is the key to this guy...He searches out Nought...EE, Pithing Needle, AND Top. He's helped in so many matches and for sure beat if he needs to.
Braintrain- Perhaps the most broken blue card in the format. Combine it with Trinket Mages and Fetchies and it's just nutty.
Daze- This card is a beating...With Standstill there's so many ways to abuse this card ripping 3 cards off the deck of your deck and Dazing your oponents goyf or Confidant.
Force of Will- No explanation needed. Sheer brokeness.
Stifle- Combo's with Nought...Counters so many random spells abilities like storm, Deed, EE, Wasteland. It's so versatile it's incredible.
Counterbalance- Most of the format ranges between 1-3 mana costing things so this card combined with Top can surely shut down the oponent.
Sensei's Divining top- I've won games just using this to dig for threats. It's wonderful when both you and oponent are in topdeck mode you will almost surely win. Counterbalance+this = game most of the time.
Pithing Needle- Answers so much stuff and can be grabbed with Trinket.
Standstill- This card is an absolute beating...most games i draw this in my opening hand I win.
Spell Snare- 1 Mana counters Goyf and Confidant/Counterbalance. Pretty good if you ask me.
Trickbind- Savage tech against control decks that aren't expecting it xP
EE- Blows up chalice, Goyf, also alot of random other stuff like Vial.

Sideboard varies depending on the meta...The Chills obviously help against Goyf sligh but I'm thinking of dropping the Back to Basics for something more useful.

Matchup Analysis:

Goblins Preboard 50/50- Pretty basic here. Counter first turn Lackey no matter what...Try to dig for a fast Nought as quickly as you can via Top/Brainstorms.. If you resolved a nought you have a fairly high chance to win game one due to their lack of MD answers.
Postboard 45/55- Not much changes here you bring in needles and they bring in therapies and Grips sometimes so it can get a bit tougher.

Threshold Preboard 55/45- You have all the same countershell they do..except a much more potent kill condition in Nought. Standstills are a beating against them especially since they are forced to pop it as long as you keep them Goyfless. You will almost always have a bigger handsize then them a fairly good percentage of the time.
Postboard 50/50- They bring in Grips so it can be a bit tougher here. Just play the control role here resolve a Counterbalance if you can. Also try to waste/deny their green sources if possible.

DragonStompy Preboard 50/50- Yup, me and Tom have done excessive testing here and found this to be right down the wire. If he gets off 3sphere he usually wins if I resolve a nought I win. Pretty basic.
Postboard 60/40- You bring in Chills and Echoing Truths to hose down their lock conditions and kill conditions. It makes it a bit easier to kill with Nought...Also their Powder Kegs won't do much it just makes your needle relevant =].

Ichorid Preboard 50/50- You can put them on a rediculously fast clock and can also take away their Bridges via Wasteland/Mishra's and also just playing a nought. They have the advantage of making most of your Counterspells irrelevant and going Combo frenzy with Ichorid and Bridge.
PostBoard 65/35- You get more Crypts and Echoing Truths for their Ichorid Tokens. Trinket Mage to fetch out the Crypts.

TES Preboard 70/30- Daze, FoW, Spell Snare, Stifle and Standstills to replenish hand. Oh yeah, Nought helps a bit here too...as does Wasteland for their few mana sources.
Postboard 70/30- You bring in chills to hose down their random kill conds and excell like ETW and Rite of Flame. Also Echoing Truth kills them when they combo off with ETW. Makes it very hard for them to recover from this.

The Rock Preboard 35/65- Hate to say this but this is the decks worst matchup. Their entire decks answers the purpose of what we're trying to do. Try to control them via Standstill before the get a Goyf online. Swords, Deed, Vindicate, Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy are all a beating.
PostBoard 30/70 It actually gets worse from here...they bring in Grips just to make it even harder. Really bad MU.

Goyf Sligh Preboard 65/35- They have no MD answers to Nought and you can normally counter their relevant spells and swing for Nought for win.
Postboard 70/30- You get Chills now slows them down horrible. This one probally one of the decks strongest MUs.

Suicide Black Preboard 50/50- If you resolve a Counterbalance you will usually win this. It can get hard if they resolve a Confidant so don't let that happen.
Postboard 50/50- Not much changes here really. Your main objective is to resolve a Counterbalance and hope to control them and counter most of their spells...Standstills are your friend in this matchup

Landstill Preboard 45/55-This matchup is a close one. With Wastelands+Mishra's it's normally hard for either player to abuse Standstill evenciently. They have alot of answers to Nought and It's sometimes very hard to get one to stick.
Postboard 60/40- B2B resolved will usually spell the end for them. Try to resolve it as hard as you can. Also Needles for their Deeds, EE, Manlands helps a ton.

Tournament Results:
1st Of of 25 Wareham 12/29 http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2587&page=28
3rd of of 36 in Hadley people http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7899&page=7

I was going to revisit my sideboard, any and all ideas pertaining to Dreadstill would be greatly appreciated.

J.V.
02-04-2008, 11:04 PM
Bagel,
-1 Volcanic Island
+1 Underground Sea
-2 Tormod's Crypt
-1 Back to Basics
+3 Yixlid Jailer

e1567
02-05-2008, 12:20 AM
Tournament Results:
1st Of of 25 Wareham 12/29 http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7796&page=5




Interesting deck but I have seen a number of decks like this ever since they changed noughts rules back. Oh and I cannot find this deck in the above link.

Rood
02-05-2008, 12:41 AM
Interesting deck but I have seen a number of decks like this ever since they changed noughts rules back. Oh and I cannot find this deck in the above link.

Thanks, and I updated the link to make it easier.

Peter_Rotten
02-09-2008, 08:15 PM
Hmm... Landstill smacked me around a bit on MWS. However, I did stomp on 9landstompy. (I think a deck automatically gets disqualified if it loses to 9LS). And I also beat a suicide variant.

Overall, I like the deck but I hate the feeling that sometimes I'm playing a nuetered Landstill variant. Sometimes you just don't draw the goods (meaning both pieces to the combo.) And sometimes you just don't draw the portection for it. This, of course, is mitigated by the fact that sometimes dropping a 12/12 trampler on tunr 2 wins games.

J.V.
02-09-2008, 10:22 PM
Hmm... Landstill smacked me around a bit on MWS. However, I did stomp on 9landstompy. (I think a deck automatically gets disqualified if it loses to 9LS). And I also beat a suicide variant.

Overall, I like the deck but I hate the feeling that sometimes I'm playing a nuetered Landstill variant. Sometimes you just don't draw the goods (meaning both pieces to the combo.) And sometimes you just don't draw the portection for it. This, of course, is mitigated by the fact that sometimes dropping a 12/12 trampler on tunr 2 wins games.

PR, on a side note, does Dreadstill still give you nightmares from Hadley :tongue: ?

Zach Tartell
02-10-2008, 12:21 AM
Is there some stratdegy related to having 7 islands, 5 of one picture and two of another?

Bardo
02-10-2008, 12:23 AM
Is there some stratdegy related to having 7 islands, 5 of one picture and two of another?

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing.

Also, have you tested Academy Ruins here?

Tacosnape
02-10-2008, 03:54 AM
Goblins Preboard is not 50/50. I could take a duck out of the lake in the park downtown, hand it a few bread crumbs and Vial Goblins, and it would at least 60-40 this.

Neat concept, though. Straight Blue Landstills have been intriguing me for a long time.

Rood
02-10-2008, 04:06 AM
Hmm... Landstill smacked me around a bit on MWS. However, I did stomp on 9landstompy. (I think a deck automatically gets disqualified if it loses to 9LS). And I also beat a suicide variant.

Overall, I like the deck but I hate the feeling that sometimes I'm playing a nuetered Landstill variant. Sometimes you just don't draw the goods (meaning both pieces to the combo.) And sometimes you just don't draw the portection for it. This, of course, is mitigated by the fact that sometimes dropping a12/12 trampler on tunr 2 wins games.

That's Landstill for you. Game one is very tough match. Games Two and Three should get a bit easier via Needles and Back to Basics for their nonbasic lands. Just bulk up on counter and hope to win the counter war over it.


Is there some stratdegy related to having 7 islands, 5 of one picture and two of another?

Actually, I suppose when i randomly put the Islands into my deck on MWS two were from a different set. Sorry for that confusion =).


Yeah, I was wondering the same thing.

Also, have you tested Academy Ruins here?

Yes, Academy would most certainly be a beating with Engineered explosives and also have the ability to put Nought back on top of your library. Problem is, I really like the amount of blue sources im running right now and i'm not sure cutting another one for a colorless source is in our best interest here.
What would you suggest?


Goblins Preboard is not 50/50. I could take a duck out of the lake in the park downtown, hand it a few bread crumbs and Vial Goblins, and it would at least 60-40 this.

Neat concept, though. Straight Blue Landstills have been intriguing me for a long time.

Thing here is even though you are correct Goblins can often get the explosives of sheer double lackey nonesense...if you can Daze of Force a Lackey on Turn 1 you are usually set...it will slow them down at least a couple of turns giving you enough time to dig and hopefully search for what you need. And sometimes you would be surprised at how close this matchup actually can truly be. Post side though definetally gets much more unfavorable.

~On a side note, what do you guys think of Mutavaults in place of the Wastelands? I'm not sure but it could give the deck more of an aggresive presence but it would lose the ability to destroy your oponents tempo via Wastelands.

kicks_422
02-18-2008, 07:13 AM
~On a side note, what do you guys think of Mutavaults in place of the Wastelands? I'm not sure but it could give the deck more of an aggresive presence but it would lose the ability to destroy your oponents tempo via Wastelands.

I think it's great, since more manlands help a lot against your bad MU's. I've recently picked up the deck and tweaked it a bit to my own personal tastes.

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
10 [UNH] Island
4 [MOR] Mutavault

// Creatures
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [CS] Counterbalance
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [OD] Standstill
2 [TSP] Trickbind
2 [10E] Pithing Needle

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 4 [TE] Chill
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [MOR] Declaration of Naught

Works pretty well for me. Added the 2nd Trickbind since Stifle effects are just so good, and I wanted to run more since they're part of the main win con. 8 manlands are cool, they work really well with the deck and puts less pressure into the Nought-Stifle combo, allowing more free (free-er?) use of Stifle/Trickbind. 2 Pithing Needles MD shore up a lot of weaknesses as well, with the other 2 out of the board. Also, that singleton Declaration of Naught can pretty much be anything, I just don't know what else to put in there.

My main concern now would be what happens when they land a troublesome permanent early (e.g. Goyf)?

KillemallCFH
02-18-2008, 07:48 AM
My main concern now would be what happens when they land a troublesome permanent early (e.g. Goyf)?I haven't actually tested this, but Vedalken Shackles seems like it would be the best solution to this. I really have no idea what you'd take out, though. -1 Needle, -1 Trickbind, +2 Shackles, maybe? I know you wanted that Trickbind in, but I really don't know what else to take out.

HammafistRoob
02-18-2008, 01:02 PM
IDK how Rodeny lost to you in the T8 of the Wareham tourney, I think his Thresh match is pretty good. Whatever, I don't know how I lost to Survival twice.

Rood
02-21-2008, 03:19 PM
I think it's great, since more manlands help a lot against your bad MU's. I've recently picked up the deck and tweaked it a bit to my own personal tastes.

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
10 [UNH] Island
4 [MOR] Mutavault

// Creatures
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [CS] Counterbalance
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [OD] Standstill
2 [TSP] Trickbind
2 [10E] Pithing Needle

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 4 [TE] Chill
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [MOR] Declaration of Naught

Works pretty well for me. Added the 2nd Trickbind since Stifle effects are just so good, and I wanted to run more since they're part of the main win con. 8 manlands are cool, they work really well with the deck and puts less pressure into the Nought-Stifle combo, allowing more free (free-er?) use of Stifle/Trickbind. 2 Pithing Needles MD shore up a lot of weaknesses as well, with the other 2 out of the board. Also, that singleton Declaration of Naught can pretty much be anything, I just don't know what else to put in there.

My main concern now would be what happens when they land a troublesome permanent early (e.g. Goyf)?

Finally got my source page to load...Your list intrigues me. There's one issue I would tend to take care of here..you run no MD answers to chalice and with Trinket Main i'd suggest cutting a needle for an EE. Since you don't really need two Pithing Needles. And then also there's the inclusion of the 1x Trop or any other duel land to be able to pop it for 2. What do you think of cutting 1x Mutavault for an Academy Ruins? The thought of recurable EE or Nought seems appealing as all hell to me. I'm not sure how cutting the Spell Snares has worked out for you but if it works for you then go with it :D.

On a side note for the counterbalance matchups I've added 1x Trop for EE and 3x Krosan Grips to the sideboard. My board currently looks like~

3x Chill
2x Pithing Needle
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Krosan Grips
2x Back to Basics
2x Echoing Truth

Waikiki
02-21-2008, 04:43 PM
I also think that 8 manlands are cool but the lack of fetchlands will make less advantage of top to find your answers. Also shackles seems like an awesome addition but the MD seems really tight.

Rood
02-21-2008, 05:14 PM
He could always just cut 2 Islands for 2 Fetch lands if that really became an issue

kicks_422
02-21-2008, 06:32 PM
Finally got my source page to load...Your list intrigues me. There's one issue I would tend to take care of here..you run no MD answers to chalice and with Trinket Main i'd suggest cutting a needle for an EE. Since you don't really need two Pithing Needles. And then also there's the inclusion of the 1x Trop or any other duel land to be able to pop it for 2. What do you think of cutting 1x Mutavault for an Academy Ruins? The thought of recurable EE or Nought seems appealing as all hell to me. I'm not sure how cutting the Spell Snares has worked out for you but if it works for you then go with it :D.

Right, forgot about Chalice... I'd cut a Needle for an EE now... :smile: I might just go ahead and splash a color to the deck, probably black or white... As for Academy Ruins, I don't think being able to recur Dreadnoughts is good when the deck only has a limited number of Stifles, and recurring EE wouldn't come up too often.


I also think that 8 manlands are cool but the lack of fetchlands will make less advantage of top to find your answers. Also shackles seems like an awesome addition but the MD seems really tight.

Trinket Mage is a shuffle effect too, so that helps.

Rood
02-21-2008, 06:42 PM
The best part about running a Dual for EE is the access to splash w/e color you want for sideboard purposes...Black enables Yixlid Jailer, White Swords in the board. Also green gives you access to Krosan Grip which helps a ton in the counterbalance matchups which have been tough as of late. So I chose to splash Trop for the grips for this reason. It all comes down to your meta really. Since I see alot of Thresh I chose green splash.

thefreakaccident
02-22-2008, 11:32 AM
I think this deck could go for a straight muc approach as well:

lands//18
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
7 island
2 tropical island
1 academy ruins

creatures//8
4 trinket mage
4 phyrexian dreadnought


spells//33
4 chrome mox
4 force of will
4 counterspell
3 vedalken shackles
1 engineered explosives
4 stifle
3 counterbalance
3 sensei's divining top
4 fact or fiction
3 trickbind


sideboard//
3 back to basics
3 propaganda
2 pithing needle
1 engineered explosives
3 tormod's crypt
3 krosan grip



The deck a serious lack of draw though... good thing it was just a spur of the moment idea...

J.V.
02-22-2008, 12:37 PM
I think this deck could go for a straight muc approach as well:


Through tons of testing with Rodney, the only issue with this is that Dreadstill isn't really a control deck. Its more of an explosive tempo deck. Yes sometimes you end up getting out counter/top and they never resolve a spell again but often it a stifle'd fetchland here, a spell snare there a well placed standstill with a factory in play and then a Nought to finish it. Moving towards MUC takes away the "keep you on your toes" aspect that makes the deck so successful in legacy's current meta. Also on a sidenote Chrome Mox is unneeded card disadvantage.

thefreakaccident
02-23-2008, 04:22 AM
If you choose to play the deck that way, then sure, it can be a tempo deck.

That does not necessarily mean that all dreadnought decks are tempo orientated.

I have compiled many lists (many color variations, using Complete Janks fling nought idea, mono-blue, to every color combination).

Dreadnought fits into many different 'shells' and does it well.

I was just proposing the idea, it was a simple list of coarse.

Another option could be for a light white splash for enlightened tutor... it gives the deck more ways to get the second turn dreadnought.. and it helps tutor for much needed sideboard slots (crypt for GY decks, plague/whatev. against goblins).

The goblin MU is the pits (sorry guys)... I have tested dreadnought extensively against goblins and found 2 things, unless you are running red you have a very unfavorable MU, unless a dreadnought hits the table by turn 3-4 (depending on how explosives a start they may have), you will lose.

I play black and E. tutor, so I can board in plagues and hope for the best (it is pretty sweet to tutor for the hoser).

The toughest version is against those packing a green splash, not only do they have hooligan for the dreadnought preboard, but they also have grip in the side, which forces us to keep unwanted cards in our deck (for example, I have to keep my mages even though I would usually board them out, so I can name grip and continue on my merry way).

Fortunately for me, goblins has all but gone extinct where I play, so I do not have to worry too much about it.

Aside from that though, the deck can just simply slaughter a lot of already existing decks without even trying... second turn dreadnought w/ counterbackup... game 2?

Rood
02-23-2008, 09:15 PM
That's odd that the Goblins MU you see as so unfavorable, game one is a instant win if you can just resolve any Nought at all, they have so few MD answers to it and most of the time if you do finally get an answer you can just Daze w/e spell they try to stop you with. Going first is crucial in this matchup game 1 though, as on the draw a first turn Lackey without FoW is a complete house. Games two and three green splash is rough surely for Grips but if you play it right with Wastelands you should be able to deny them that. Also you get Needles for their Vials and Ports/Wastes. Overall though the matchup is still in Goblins favor but surely not unwinnable by any means.

vanele
02-24-2008, 02:35 AM
I think this deck could go for a straight muc approach as well

The I see two problems with the MUC Route:
1. Losing the power of standstill. Standstill is absurd in my opinion, because it can do two things, Slow most decks down while helping dig for combo, and sure up victory after you drop naught.
2. By the time you make enough changes to the deck to reach a MUC-like list, why not just play MUC?

Next, the goblins match up really depends on one thing, winning the die roll. If you are on the draw against goblins (especially if you are up against black splash goblins, Curse goblin edict) you stand little to no chance except dropping early naught. If you are on the play there is 13 ways to stop first turn lackey, not including the 5 stifle effects.

If you break the deck down its like 3 mini-combos, Stifle/naught mishra/standstill Counterbalance/top, all of which are incredible powerful when put together. In short, the deck a punk to play solidarity against (Frowntown) and I hate him for building it.

HammafistRoob
02-24-2008, 02:55 PM
If you break the deck down its like 3 mini-combos, Stifle/naught mishra/standstill Counterbalance/top, all of which are incredible powerful when put together. In short, the deck a punk to play solidarity against (Frowntown) and I hate him for building it.

Then you better start hating R00b too.:wink:

Rood
02-24-2008, 09:56 PM
Faced two mono white Stax decks last night...with a fast hand and a Daze or Forcie for the most part should seal the game for you...The deck can control them long enough to dig for what you need and a fast Nought hand will almost certainly seal it for you. You get Grips and Truths from the board possible Needles for Wastelands if you really need them. In total I went 2-0 (4-1) against Stax so it's quite a favorable MU.

J.V.
02-24-2008, 11:38 PM
Bagel switch your side too:
3 Chill
3 Krosan Grip
3 Echoing Truth
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

My testing with the deck has made me realize the B2B are too slow against a lot of decks to be relevant and Landstill isn't enough of a problem to actually bring in the hate.

Also I still say you should go:
-3 Wasteland
+2 Mutavault
+1 Academy Ruins
The extra manlands are really helpful against aggro and under S.S. and reaccuring E.E. is just retarded. Also none of your match ups really get any worse by dropping Waste.

HammafistRoob
02-25-2008, 04:56 PM
Bagel switch your side too:
3 Chill
3 Krosan Grip
3 Echoing Truth
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

My testing with the deck has made me realize the B2B are too slow against a lot of decks to be relevant and Landstill isn't enough of a problem to actually bring in the hate.

Also I still say you should go:
-3 Wasteland
+2 Mutavault
+1 Academy Ruins
The extra manlands are really helpful against aggro and under S.S. and reaccuring E.E. is just retarded. Also none of your match ups really get any worse by dropping Waste.


LOL, way to steal my suggestions n00b.

Rood
02-25-2008, 05:17 PM
Getting back on topic...I really don't think it matters which which build you choose to run. The wastelands or Vaults are both solid drops under Standstill. I personally like the tempo boost the Wastes have given me and I'm going to stick to them for now. However this does not mean I'm not subject to change.

maatn
02-29-2008, 05:02 AM
Nice list! I recently tested this list, -1 daze, +1 Trickbind Maindeck.
Being able to rely on solid basic islands is nice...I also liked the huge chance of playing 2nd turn Nought-Stifle with counterbackup.

I have some mixed feelings on Standstill though. I really liked the Dreadnought, stifle, standstill plays, but it is just overkill most of the times. Of course, standstill after nought-stifle provides you with counters to protect nought on the offense. Overall I feel it's a great card if you're winning...But against fast aggro decks, Standstill is the first card to be boarded out since it is too often a dead card in those matchups. This isn't a landstill-list, so you can't rely on manlands.

Looking for alternatives, I'm currently testing AK's in the Standstill slot. Playing 4 Ponders could also be nice.

On the other hand, against slower decks standstill is incredible.

Rood
02-29-2008, 05:16 PM
Thanks for the positive feedback! Pertaining to the Standstills when you think about their uses they really are only dead in specific matchups. Like Ichorid and probally goblins. But in matches like AggroLoam, Stax, Dragonstompy, Other control decks, Combo, and even fast aggro decks like sligh you can still play Standstill and leave a manland for a chump blocker on a Kird Ape or something. Also against black discard they are insane as well. And as you said, I use them to draw for protection for my Nought if someone attempts to kill him, etc.

Rood
03-10-2008, 11:01 PM
Brief tourny description on my T8 in Hadley http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8488&page=9
My list
2 [MM] Island (3)
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [IA] Island (2)
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [REW] Wasteland
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
1 [B] Tropical Island

// Creatures
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [CS] Counterbalance
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [10E] Pithing Needle
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [DIS] Spell Snare
1 [TSP] Trickbind
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [6E] Chill
SB: 2 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip

I managed to end up 4-1-1 on the day after drawing my first round with UGW Countertop Thresh.

Round 1: UGW Countertop Thresh: 0-0-1
Game 1: I don't recall much of this game but I believe I get savage Counterbalance topdecks and go all the way with Trinket.
G2: He gets Goyf and his own CB...I don't draw a Grip and proceed to get my skull bashed in.
G3: We both chill with our Tops for like a shitload of turns...eventually time was called and we drew.

Round 2: UWBG Baseruption: 1-0-1
G1: He played a Shadowmage infiltrator that got chumped my Mishra's...Nought eventually went the distance
G2: I believe he gets mana issues and I got CB online eventually win via Nought.

Round 3: I Will Survive: 1-1-1
G1: OMG agonizing long matchup...took like 45 minutes for game 1 very close and down to the wire but eventually I got beat to death via an Akroma.
G2: He mulls down to 4 and we get called on time.

Round 4: Goyf Sligh: 2-1-1
G1: His deck has no answers game 1 to Nought...I remember needling his Seal of Fire and getting Nought online and swinging for win.
G2: I get a rather slow hand and get burned down to about 6. Eventually I get a Dreadnought and Spell Snare a magma Jet for win.

Round 5: Tombstone?: 3-1-1
G1: He sits there with Top as I play a Standstill. I bulk up my hand of enough counterprotection eventually drop Dreadnought and go the distance.
G2: He manages to kill 2 of my Dreadnoughts...we go to very late game and he plays 2 very savage hardcasted Exalted Angels and caves my skull in.
G3: Counterbalance I believe counters most of his spells and eventually enables me to play a Nought and win.

Round 6: RG Goblins: 4-1-1
G1: He gets a rather slow hand and I think I get a T4 Dreadnought off for win.
G2: I wasteland his Green source, he can't Grip or Tin Street and Nought kills him.

Top 8: RBG Goblins:
G1: I get a turn 2-4 Dreadnought off and just remembering having enough for kill. I believe I played a second Nought to untap in order to block.
G2: Mulligan down to 5 on the draw. Ouch. Get my ass handed to me fairly quickly.
G3: Mull down to 5 again...>:O I manage to have a decent 5 cards and get Chill down on turn 2...unfortunately this was the one game he got Heavily mana flooded...lol. Eventually I get a second Chill down but it's still not enough he had plenty of mana. I eventually drop 2 Noughts on him but he has like 3-4 Wren's in his hand as I get beat down :D.

Very well run tournament hope to see you people come to the Tournament in Wareham!

J.V.
03-12-2008, 10:50 PM
Hey Bagel after Hadley and the obvious resurgence of Vial Goblins in the MA meta any changes to the deck to combat the decks 50/50ish match up with them? Sideboard Goyfs for extra aggro or something?

kicks_422
03-13-2008, 09:09 AM
Maybe splash black for Plague, Confidant, and Thoughtseizes?... I was thinking about which color to splash to this deck on the bus ride home, I'll get around to working on it.

HammafistRoob
03-13-2008, 03:13 PM
Maybe splash black for Plague, Confidant, and Thoughtseizes?... I was thinking about which color to splash to this deck on the bus ride home, I'll get around to working on it.

I'm just going to tell you that the best splash for this deck is White. Meddling Mage and Swords, sounds good to me. The only reason I got Smashed in the Hadley tourney was because every single post board game I had my opponent had Krosan Grips waiting for me. It got quite erritating.

Also, Rodney Wastelands I now agree with. Being able to shut off a decks green source(gobbz mainly) can be HUGE. Much props for repping the Hamma once again.:cool:

Rood
03-13-2008, 06:03 PM
I'm beginning to feel splashing either black or white could be insanely good. As roob stated, Mages and Swords I feel would incredible strengthen decks that pack quite a few Krosan Grips from their boards. Black would give you the discard and Plagues against Goblins which Is really appealing to me right now. I'll have to do more testing.

whienot
03-14-2008, 01:30 AM
Splashing red can give you moon effects, which can nullify, or slow down, most removal. (If you don't see S. Spree or Rack and Ruin) Red also allows the semi-mighty Pyroclasm..... admittedly not a combo with Trinket Mage.

kicks_422
03-14-2008, 07:42 AM
Pyroclasm is good with Mishra's Factory though. With red, you can also bring in some burn (4 Bolts, 4 Fire/Ice I guess) along with 2-3 Scepters for added punch.

Geez, there are so many directions for this deck to take.

Davidson71
03-14-2008, 12:01 PM
I would have to say Academy Ruins, that will win you games against Grip.

HammafistRoob
03-14-2008, 02:33 PM
Pyroclasm is good with Mishra's Factory though. With red, you can also bring in some burn (4 Bolts, 4 Fire/Ice I guess) along with 2-3 Scepters for added punch.

Geez, there are so many directions for this deck to take.

Red clearly being to weakest direction. You don't need burn, I guess Fire//Ice would be pretty good but Lightning Bolt seems weak, Isochron Scepter is terrible. It would just slow down the whole deck and make it more inconsistent.


Splashing red can give you moon effects, which can nullify, or slow down, most removal. (If you don't see S. Spree or Rack and Ruin) Red also allows the semi-mighty Pyroclasm..... admittedly not a combo with Trinket Mage.

Shattering Spree isn't too much of a problem, I counter 3 copies targeting my Dreadnought on turn 4 and proceeded to smash skull. The real problem with moon effects are they kill our Wastelands, Factories, and Fetches. I have actually lost games to Magus of the Moon. I would rather just run Meddling Mage to kill Krosan Grip.



I would have to say Academy Ruins, that will win you games against Grip.

The only problem here being it causes you to have extra Stifle effects. It would help in some games but I'm not sure it is a good idea to fuck with the manabase too much because you need 2 blue sources for that turn2 Counterbalance that just wins so many games it's rediculous.

Rood
03-14-2008, 05:21 PM
Lightning Bolts and Fire/Ice wouldn't really matter so much as Pyroclasm would. If i were to splash red It'd be entirely for that card simple because it would heavily increase the Goblins matchup. Also, I would like to fit in the 4th Waste into the main.

J.V.
03-17-2008, 05:36 PM
I just figured I'd post these overall results to appeal to the mods to move this to the Established Deck forum:
Wareham:
12/29/07 Wareham: 1st/2nd Split out of 25
1/19/08 Hadley: 3rd/4th out of 36
3/8/08 Hadley: 7th out of 40
Plus numerous other Smaller tournament top 8's (15-20 player in about 4)

Also the deck has a magic-league trial (http://www.magic-league.com/deck/40416/legacy_t15.html#Dreadstill59838) win and a master (http://www.magic-league.com/deck/37811/ub_dreadnaught.html#UB%20Dreadnaught59838)'s top 8.
All of the these top 8 results can be found in the top 4/8's thread in the tournament announcement thread.

Anyways my point is this deck has done a consistent job in the MA meta top 8 in every "big" tournament that it has been played in and I feel it deserves the title "Established" since I honestly feel that it would be in the DTB forum if more people picked it up.

Cavius The Great
03-17-2008, 07:04 PM
I just figured I'd post these overall results to appeal to the mods to move this to the Established Deck forum:
Wareham:
12/29/07 Wareham: 1st/2nd Split out of 25
1/19/08 Hadley: 3rd/4th out of 36
3/8/08 Hadley: 7th out of 40
Plus numerous other Smaller tournament top 8's (15-20 player in about 4)

Also the deck has a magic-league trial (http://www.magic-league.com/deck/40416/legacy_t15.html#Dreadstill59838) win and a master (http://www.magic-league.com/deck/37811/ub_dreadnaught.html#UB%20Dreadnaught59838)'s top 8.
All of the these top 8 results can be found in the top 4/8's thread in the tournament announcement thread.

Anyways my point is this deck has done a consistent job in the MA meta top 8 in every "big" tournament that it has been played in and I feel it deserves the title "Established" since I honestly feel that it would be in the DTB forum if more people picked it up.

Why don't you just post a new primer in the Established Forum with all the requirements? It seems this deck meets all the criterias.

Maagler
03-17-2008, 09:16 PM
I agree this should go in the established decks forums. Also Rodney, Have you thought of using vision charm instead of trick bind? It save a naught about to be killed, and has two other quirky affects. It also only costs one unlike the trickbind. but you do not get the same uncounterable effect that you get with the trickbind. Idk you might want to test it.

Rood
03-17-2008, 09:32 PM
Since requested i suppose i could make a more detailed primer thread in the Established Decks forum. Andy, pertaining to the Vision charm i agree that although it could save your nought i've come to the conclusion Krosan Grip is really the only kill spell i tend to worry about often~everything else for the most part CB/counters hit. Including a white splash for Meddling Mage seems like it could be really cool at fending this off.

Ch@os
03-18-2008, 08:27 AM
Here my list i played the last 3 days ~5h per day. http://forum.ingame.de/quake/images/smilies/ugly.gif

Mainboard:

Lands: 18

4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Plains
3 Island
4 Mishra's Factory



Creatures: 12

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Trinked Mage


Spells: 30

4 Stifle
4 Vision Charm
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Sword's to Plowshares
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Standstill



Sideboard:

4 Meddling Mage
3 Echoing Truth
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Back to Basics


It seems pretty basic, but the small whitesplash does well and serves all problems ;>.

kicks_422
03-18-2008, 08:44 AM
Why not make room for Meddling Mage in the MD? The cards that wreck the deck are pretty slim, so maybe fitting them MD would help even more. Also, is 18 lands really enough?

Meddling Mage + CB-Top + FoW + Daze + Stifle. Let's see combo get through that. :tongue:

Ch@os
03-18-2008, 08:58 AM
Yes, maybe add one basic Island, but 20 seems far to much.

And MM mainboard seems not an good idea, mostly you know what your opponents boards against you, grip, grip & Krosan "fucking" Grip.

And i love Vision Charm,

- cheats nought into play
- protects the nought against removal
- its a timewalk when played in the opponents upkeep
- when you really search an option/CBtarget and cannot find it with Brainstorm/Top just put the top 4 cards into the graveyard.
- and whenever you find a nought with 4x stifle & 3-4x Charm you can be sure that the nought is not a dead card.

FoolofaTook
03-18-2008, 11:06 AM
Doesn't Vision Charm just add to the number of iffy draws you can get? It looks like a dead card in the opening hand without Phyrexian Dreadnought because your opponent can still cast whatever he wants turns one and two just by dropping a land and tapping it for what he needs.

Edit: I see where you could shut down a color fairly effectively on turn 1 or 2 if they weren't playing certain themes with artifact mana or lands that produced color but had no basic land type. I still think it's an iffy opening draw.

J.V.
03-18-2008, 03:29 PM
And MM mainboard seems not an good idea, mostly you know what your opponents boards against you, grip, grip & Krosan "fucking" Grip.

Yes, Ch@os basically summed it up there is really no need for Maindeck Mages since there are really only two cards that Dreadstill truely hates seeing:
Krosan Grip (nobody runs it main)
and
Chalice of the Void [1]: Even here you have counter magic and 5 Engineered explosives main to blow it up.

emidln
03-18-2008, 03:54 PM
Meddling Mage + CB-Top + FoW + Daze + Stifle. Let's see combo get through that. :tongue:

That's really not all that hard. The relevant hate is still going to be the ridiculous clock (Dreadnought + Stifle) backed up by the tempo cards (FoW/Daze/Stifle). Playing the waiting game with decks packing Sudden Death and Wipe Away is just worse than attacking twice. This is why Stiflenaught decks like this can do so much better than traditional Landstill or even CB Thresh (3/4 goyfs pale compared to 12/12 dreadnoughts).

This deck really should be in the established forum though. It seems to be the most effective Dreadnought control deck so far in Legacy.

HammafistRoob
03-18-2008, 05:01 PM
Vision Charm seems OK but it just seems weaker than Trickbind in the ways of getting out Dreadnought. I have seen some people let a Dreanought resolve trying to get a 2-for-1 by countering the Stifle, and then cry when they see you tap two mana and play a Trickbind.

I don't think that you should be worried about the combo matchup, the aggro matchup is where we need to focus(mainly Gobbs postboard). This deck in my experience has a very easy Game 1 against almost anything including Goblins. Game 2 when they bring in their hate is where it gets hard to reliably get a Dreanought online for 2 turns without you opponent being able to stop you.

To sum this whole thing up, Meddling Mage belongs in the sideboard because it will make the aggro matchup weaker in game 1 by being a bad draw.

Peter_Rotten
03-19-2008, 07:33 AM
New thread exists.

http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8964