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TheInfamousBearAssassin
02-10-2008, 09:44 PM
What all can you give
With five minutes to live?
Hear the tock tick tock
Of an effin' clock
What can you do or say?
Maybe you oughtta pray
But you better think positive-
You've got five minutes to live.

- The Ubangis, Five Minutes to Live


As many of you know, I've been rather wrapped up in Army training for the past five months or so, a brief break for Christmas non-withstanding. As such, my Magic playing has been essentially non-existent, particularly with certain someones (Godzilla, my brother) failing to keep me updated on Llorwyn/Morningtide via letters in Basic.

Irregardless, I decided that I would enter this contest once I got out of basic near the end of November, and began the somewhat-regular but very-brief internet contact that's marked these past couple months. I also decided rapidly that I would waste none of the precious time I had on Exodus break on such shennanigans (although I did waste it catching up on a half-season's worth of Avatar. Silly, really.)

I've spent these past few weekends tinkering with this deck, a work I began before I left for Basic, as part of an ongoing quest to conquer the Time Vault-Mizzium Transreliquat combo, but never really completed to my satisfaction.


Mana:

4x Chrome Mox
4x Dark Ritual
3x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scrubland
3x Swamp
1x Vault of Whispers

Discard:

4x Duress
4x Thoughtseize
3x Cabal Therapy

Combo:

4x Time Vault
4x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Mizzium Transreliquat

Tutoring/Card Draw:

4x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Enlightened Tutor

Kill:

4x Dark Confidant
2x Yukora, the Prisoner

Other Things:
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Engineered Explosives

SB:
4x Engineered Plague
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Pithing Needle
4x Phyrexian Negator
4x Withered Wretch

How the deck works:

Fast mana and discard enable you to empty the opponent's hand fairly quickly, slowing down their game or removing answers to your threats. Tutoring and draw help you assemble the infinite-turns combo of Time Vault + Transreliquat/Rings. There's a spattering of redundant control elements and Yukora as a fat finisher. The main plan is to stall and disrupt long enough to get the combo going, allowing you to finish the opponent off at your leisure. Without the combo, you're basically playing a very sub-optimal sui

Matchups:

Goblins: Bad, in the order of about 1-to-2. You have few answers to a fast start, and you rely on your lands more than you'd really like. Confidant can rarely stick. However, if they don't have a Lackey opening, the matchup is definitely winnable; just race to the combo. SB: -2 Duress, - 4 Bob, +4 E. Plague, +1 CoP, +1 Pithing Needle

Threshold: Slightly positive. Unless they get Counterbalance-Top down, it's hard for them to reliably counter your shit. Their creatures are still better than yours, and pose the biggest threat, but it shouldn't be actually that difficult to land the combo, especially if you can get Confidant to stick for a few turns. SB: -1 Cabal Therapy, +1 Tormod's Crypt

Landstill: Slightly more positive. Landstill has a fair number of answers, but little pressure, making it easier to wait for a good moment to force the combo in and take all the time in the world before they can react. Odds are good that games 2/3 are down to time, so you might want to side the combo out for the extra creatures, clock depending.

Solidarity: Not great, actually. Optimally you'd either play like Sui, or force through the combo quickly, but more often you're in the middle of the road long enough to get run over. SB: -2 Oblivion Ring, -2 Engineered Explosives, +4 Phyrexian Negator.

I did want to have more matchups, and more in-depth analysis, but it's rather hard for me to get a lot of testing in right now. Or any testing, for that matter.

Special thanks to P_R for extending the deadline for me due to job conflicts, and Godzilla and the Hatfields for helping with the testing.

Isamaru
02-10-2008, 10:20 PM
The King has Spoken. Nicely put together, Jack.

If you'd like a creature that can hold off Tarmogoyf, Mongoose, etc. while actually acting as disruption (and thereby not stealing slots directly), consider Augur of Skulls (http://magiccards.info/fut/en/63.html). (perhaps -3 Therapy -1 Duress?)

Guan Yu, Sainted Warrior (http://magiccards.info/p3k/en/6.html) or Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed (http://magiccards.info/p3k/en/92.html) could one day be of some use. I feel like you might desire an evasive win condition (http://magiccards.info/10e/en/151.html) (even if it is a 1/1 or something), although I don't like discussing what happens post-combo, since in many cases, the inclusions are then win-more / dead pre-combo (ex Test of Endurance)

Jander78
02-10-2008, 10:50 PM
Nice deck Jack. I was working on something similar a while ago and the combo has a lot of potential.

A question about the deck, why more maindeck Rings of Brighthearth over Mizzium Transreliquat? Mizzium Transreliquat allows you to win the turn you play it (barring you have the available mana) where as Rings requires you to wait until your next upkeep step when you can untap Vault.

kirdape3
02-10-2008, 10:58 PM
Is Yukora better than Tombstalker? Sure, paying 8 life to flip him off of a Bob is pretty terrible, but I'd think you'd want something that flies (otherwise they just block your guy and you're sad).

Failing that, Razormane Masticore or even normal Masticore is an option, just to clear creatures out of the way.

Isamaru
02-10-2008, 11:02 PM
I think the current craze is actually Hoofprints of the Stag (http://magiccards.info/lw/en/21.html), right? Enlightened Tutor finds it, precombo you have Rings of Brighthearth and 4 Sensei's Divining Top to use with it, postcombo it is your evasive win condition. It comes down turn 1 with a Chrome Mox, and it reveals comfortably for 2.

I think that 2x Hoofprints of the Stag (http://magiccards.info/lw/en/21.html) are automatically in, no?


A question about the deck, why more maindeck Rings of Brighthearth over Mizzium Transreliquat? Mizzium Transreliquat allows you to win the turn you play it (barring you have the available mana) where as Rings requires you to wait until your next upkeep step when you can untap Vault.The only reason I can think of would be the 7 fetchlands... but nothing else copied is useful in the current decklist.

bladewing019
02-11-2008, 12:35 AM
I would guess that its because Rings costs 5 and Mizzium costs 6. Also maybe because rings can't be needled? But a good player will be Needling the Time Vault anyways. (Unless the name of a card isn't a copiable value?)

chmoddity
02-11-2008, 10:07 AM
(Unless the name of a card isn't a copiable value?)It is. In fact, wasn't Anusien also working on this? I thought the consensus was that the combo required more setup than was reasonable in Legacy. And with so few search cards, and darn near no removal in your build it seems like you are just hoping to not see any creatures on the other side.

Yukora? I like him. He kills off any Confidants that are killing you during the endless upkeeps. Simply get a Ring if there is something like a Moat or a fattie keeping his modest fanny out. But...
What about Confidants killing you at a time when you get unlimited access to your library? With your limited removal, this seems like it is an unnecessary risk.
Oblivion Ring over Vindicate?
What does "Irregardless" mean?

Cavius The Great
02-11-2008, 06:02 PM
I love the thought of casting a Yukora on the first turn via moxen/ritual, but wouldn't something like Exalted Angel or Eternal Dragon be better? Hell, even Vampiric Spirit with it's evasive ability might be better.

Pulp_Fiction
02-11-2008, 07:34 PM
If you are really worried about Tarmogoyf and Nimble Mongoose you could try and stick in Spectral Lynx. It has pro-green and regenerates thus it may help buy a few extra turns against not only threshold but some random aggro and goblins.

Happy Gilmore
02-12-2008, 12:59 PM
How about Tombstalker as a finisher instead? It eats the GY shrinking Tarmogoyf, and can come out before turn 3 with Dark Ritual. Obviously Tombstalker + Dark Confidant is not a combo. But then again I never liked relying on DC for card advantage anyway.

Barook
02-12-2008, 01:36 PM
I dunno, Bob seems underwhelming when going infinite because you're still in the danger of dying to yourself. It also prevents a more effective use of Tombstalker which should fit very well into this deck.

Rings of Brighthearth combos with Fetchlands and SDT's draw, so I don't see any reason not to run that many copies compared to Mizzium Transreliquat.

Cavius The Great
02-12-2008, 03:38 PM
I'm not against Bob at all, drawing cards is drawing cards regardless if your opponent gets to or not. I would definitely advocate for something with evasion though, particularly Exalted Angel (better than Tombstalker IMO) which can sometimes offset the drawback of DC.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
02-12-2008, 06:59 PM
Confidant's been pretty amazing for me. He's low investment and has a big payoff.

As to evasion... to be honest, I haven't found winning with infinite turns to really be that difficult. You have Therapy and other removal if Confidant really becomes that threatening. Yukora is there because he's really good without the infinite turns.

Spectral Lynx woulud actually be kind of badass if I wasn't worried about the black count and Chrome Mox.


Edit: Edited to answer things I didn't have time to address yesterday.


Xiahou Dun: Actually, the deck had him in Yukora's spot originally, and I quite liked him. However, I'm running Yukora now as the beef simply seemed more useful than the versatility at times when victory was most in doubt, i.e., when you had larger fish to worry about than a pesky blocking situation once the lock was down. Sure, you don't have an answer to Simic Sky Swallower at the moment, but Yukora is much stronger on the defense. Maybe I can go back to Xiahou Dun after some testing- I'd certainly be happy about it.

I've not played much with Hoofprints, and don't have much opportunity to actually play the cards, since I can't download any Magic programs on computers I have access to right now. I'd have to defer the idea to someone that actually has seen the card in action, I've only heard that it's good.

Irregardless is like regardless, but with extra letters so it sounds classier.