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rxavage
05-16-2012, 10:38 AM
Are you serious?

No I posted the list sarcastically. Are you serious? Do you even play the deck? My choices are based on my meta. The only questionable card in my mainboard is Intuition. This list has gone 4-0 on several occasions in a meta filled with current tier1 decks except for nicfit.

JDK
05-16-2012, 11:03 AM
No I posted the list sarcastically.

Okay, now I can rest in peace.

bfeingersh
05-16-2012, 11:06 AM
What is Angel of Destruction? :eyebrow:

rxavage
05-16-2012, 11:16 AM
What is Angel of Destruction? :eyebrow:


What I often refer to Angel of Despair as. I Fixed it to avoid anymore confusion.

Sturtzilla
05-16-2012, 09:26 PM
This list has gone 4-0 on several occasions in a meta filled with current tier 1 decks except for nicfit.

Grand! Since when has Nicfit been a tier one deck? I am still not convinced that it is competitive. I have played against it on several occasions and never had any trouble. Plus, who in their right mind would play this format without that awesomeness that you get in blue?

rxavage
05-16-2012, 09:45 PM
Grand! Since when has Nicfit been a tier one deck? I am still not convinced that it is competitive. I have played against it on several occasions and never had any trouble. Plus, who in their right mind would play this format without that awesomeness that you get in blue?

I've also gone 2-2 but thats just how it goes. I still have yet play a single round against nicfit but aggroloam seems to be gaining steam. The only match I've had against loam I won 2-0 in short order, thanks to surgical extraction from the board. Anyways, I have no clue why anyone would want to play any deck without blue.

Sturtzilla
05-16-2012, 10:39 PM
Good to know I am not totally crazy! I have played against it (Nicfit) while I was piloting U/R Delver, RUG Tempo, and Reanimator. I have never had any issues. It seems like a fairly poor deck to me. However, now that I have said that, I will likely lose every match up I play against it from now on.

bfeingersh
05-17-2012, 11:49 AM
Plus, who in their right mind would play this format without that awesomeness that you get in blue?

People who aren't delusional about how good blue is. Nic Fit is awesome, especially if you can actually cast Therapy.

Sturtzilla
05-17-2012, 01:35 PM
People who aren't delusional about how good blue is.
So it is just a coincidence that most decks in the format play the following?

Brainstorm
Daze
Spell Pierce
Spell Snare
Force of Will

Some actually playing more like Ponder, Counterspell, Vendilion Clique, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor?


Nic Fit is awesome, especially if you can actually cast Therapy.
I have played with Therapy and it is a solid card. If you know what your opponent is playing, it can be absolutely brutal. However, normally, when you cast it, (unless you are in Magical Christmas Land) you will likely get a 1 for 1, assuming you even hit something. Then another subsequent 1 for 1 when you flash it back. However, the flashback cost is slightly poorer in terms of card economy than the strict 1 for 1 that most people think that it is. See you must spend a card in your graveyard (yes you already cast it, but it is still a resource while in your graveyard) and a creature to potentially strip cards from your opponent's hand. So in reality it is more like a 1.5 for X, where X is what you get your opponent to discard. Sure if you hit 2 cards that is awesome, and if you are sacrificing your Veteran Explorer that is even better, but many times by the time you have a creature, your opponent's hand might have changed dramatically. If you miss on your flashbacked Therapy, then you are obviously on the wrong end of this interaction. It is in many situations arguable that unless you hit two cards on your flashback, that you are still on the wrong side.

That is logic is all assuming your opponent is not playing Brainstorm, which in and of itself can totally blank your Therapy flashback. Also Spell Pierce has recently been gaining love. Thus, it is more likely that your first attempt at Therapy will be countered in a 1 for 1 fashion which likely favors the blue player. In this interaction you lose the ability to see your opponent's hand, which then makes the flashback infinitely worse.

bfeingersh
05-17-2012, 04:32 PM
How is casting Therapy for a card, and flashing it back for another card a 1 for 1? "Sacrifice a creature" is not a drawback in the decks that play Therapy. Also, how is getting the front end of a Therapy pierced an exchange that favors your opponent?

Obviously if you whiff on either end of the therapy, you're not going to be overjoyed with the result as a whole, but that's why I said if you can realistically hit it's awesome.

I don't mean to derail this thread, just questioning your logic.

Aggro_zombies
05-17-2012, 04:47 PM
Also, how is getting the front end of a Therapy pierced an exchange that favors your opponent?
My assumption is this:

If the opponent Pierces the front end of a Therapy, they're trying to hide information from you. Depending on how well you know the opponent's deck, this can give you a fairly accurate read on their hand. It's also useful if they have to tap their last blue to do so, as it vastly narrows the number of responses they can have to the back half of Therapy and thus gives you a more refined list of things to hit.

I imagine this is more true versus combo decks wherein there's a pretty short list of relevant Therapy cards. But depending on the board state, a Pierce on a Therapy can tell you a lot about the opponent's hand and what his goals are. I mean, yeah, you'd rather have your Therapy hit, but if you were blind Therapy-ing or were going to name the wrong thing, it's useful.

On the other hand, if you're casting a blind Therapy against a noncombo deck, or against a deck you don't know well, getting it Pierced doesn't give you a ton of information. You can still name the wrong card.

I wouldn't say Piercing a Therapy favors the blue player unless the Therapy player doesn't know what he's doing.

EDIT: In case it wasn't clear, I'm agreeing with bfeingersh.

bfeingersh
05-17-2012, 05:06 PM
I usually play under the assumption that if my opponent has Therapy in his deck, he has half an idea what's going on. It's not a card that I'd put in a deck I'm giving to a new legacy player.

Sturtzilla
05-17-2012, 06:58 PM
How is casting Therapy for a card, and flashing it back for another card a 1 for 1? "Sacrifice a creature" is not a drawback in the decks that play Therapy.

This is not what I posted earlier.


However, normally, when you cast it, (unless you are in Magical Christmas Land) you will likely get a 1 for 1, assuming you even hit something. Then another subsequent 1 for 1 when you flash it back. However, the flashback cost is slightly poorer in terms of card economy than the strict 1 for 1 that most people think that it is.

As I mentioned a few posts back, it is likely a 1 for 1 and then another not quite 1 for 1. The first time you cast it, the Therapy, itself, is the card you lose. You may or may not get a card from your opponent. Therefore the first Therapy is normally a blind, though educated, 1 for X, where X is the number of cards you strip from your opponent's hand. So in general a 1 for 1.

On the flashback, if you have hit prior, you have more information. This can allow you to hit again much more easily. This is not always the case. You opponent can play out and/or shuffle away cards. Regardless you must take into account all of your available resources (both the Therapy in your graveyard and the creature you sacrifice). For example, the Therapy in your graveyard will no longer be an option as you remove it as part of the flashback cost. In addition you must sacrifice a creature to use this ability. Once you have done this you no longer have the creature and the associated benefits. I am not arguing that this is inherently bad, but it can be very poor, if you miss. As I said before, on the second try you must spend the Therapy itself and a creature. Which probably boils down to a 1.5 for X interaction. You burn 2 resources that you have to take advantage of a single one shot ability. If you miss, then you are likely behind both on the board and in relevant cards.



Also, how is getting the front end of a Therapy pierced an exchange that favors your opponent?

It likely depends on the scenario. But if you have no creatures to sacrifice, then it has nullifies your threat, kept you from gaining any solid information about the hand, and makes your second attempt both blind and a poorer interaction. Sure you can speculate and try to read what that means is in an opponent's hand, but that is never as good as actually knowing (@aggro_zombies). So it puts you the Therapy player in the position of spending a second turn and a creature trying to gain information and/or card advantage from the player that most likely has it.



Obviously if you whiff on either end of the therapy, you're not going to be overjoyed with the result as a whole, but that's why I said if you can realistically hit it's awesome.

I totally agree. If you whiff either time, you basically either got time walked (if you whiff on the original casting) or lost a creature, potential interaction, and lost some momentum (if you whiff on the flashback). I guess my entire point is that opponents that are intelligent and/or play blue can make this card a blank much of the time.

Kl'rt
05-18-2012, 01:42 AM
This has probably already been done, but lets dissect his abilities. He is a 7/7 for 8 mana. Therefore, he puts on a three turn clock. Moreover, if he is removed by a StP, you are up a decent amount of life (and if you Reanimated him you are only down 1 [this seems like a big upgrade over a blind Jin]). He flies and has lifelink. Evasion is always good and lifelink can be used to put you out of harm's reach or at a safe life total to go all Yawgmoth's Bargain on someone's ass. I am of the opinion that he is the real deal. Anyone else have any testing done with him?

After testing, I agree with the other posters who said Griselbrand is better than Jin. Against two of the big three, Maverick and Esper Blade, Swords to Plowshares is an issue. I can't count the number of times when I had my Jin plowed before I could draw my seven. With Griselbrand, you'll always get to draw your seven. The mind twist ability of Jin is a nice bonus, but like the other posters said, you should be pretty far ahead after drawing seven anyways. Jin is probably better vs combo, but against everything else, give me Griselbrand instead any day.

I think the real question for us is, with Sneak Attack putting up results everywhere with Griselbrand, is there any real reason to play Reanimator over Sneak Attack? Both decks win by putting a monster into play, except Sneak Attack runs even more permission and is not susceptible to graveyard hate. I used to think that Reanimator is faster than Sneak Attack, but I've seen quite a few turn two monsters from Sneak Attack. Even turn one sometimes with Lotus Petal. Maverick is real a pain for us once they land a Scavenging Ooze with green mana open. Sneak Attack has a very positive match up vs Maverick, as evident from both their threads. Having a very good match up against one of the big three is huge in today's meta. Why are we even playing Reanimator now?

Johanovich
05-18-2012, 09:50 AM
I think the real question for us is, with Sneak Attack putting up results everywhere with Griselbrand, is there any real reason to play Reanimator over Sneak Attack? Both decks win by putting a monster into play, except Sneak Attack runs even more permission and is not susceptible to graveyard hate. I used to think that Reanimator is faster than Sneak Attack, but I've seen quite a few turn two monsters from Sneak Attack. Even turn one sometimes with Lotus Petal. Maverick is real a pain for us once they land a Scavenging Ooze with green mana open. Sneak Attack has a very positive match up vs Maverick, as evident from both their threads. Having a very good match up against one of the big three is huge in today's meta. Why are we even playing Reanimator now?

Because reanimator is soooooo much cooler!

No but seriously, they usually run about as much permission as we do, but only 8 creatures. Reanimator has 7-8 creatures + 4 entomb. This gives us a bit more consistency than them, despite our creatures being weaker. And the same is true for the speed argument: show and tell can be just as fast or even faster, but less consistently since it behaves more like a all-in combo than us.

Sturtzilla
05-18-2012, 02:28 PM
Because reanimator is soooooo much cooler!

Totally in agreement.



No but seriously, they usually run about as much permission as we do, but only 8 creatures. Reanimator has 7-8 creatures + 4 entomb. This gives us a bit more consistency

We are generally a bit more consistent, generally the same speed (I would argue that we are generally a bit faster due to the gain in consistency we would have, maybe 1-2 turns), and we don't have to rely on a shaky manabase. The Sol lands, Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors, really adds some variance to their speed and how "keepable" a hand is versus a specific deck. For example, decks with Wasteland can give them far more issues than they would give us. So all things considered, sure graveyard hate is rough for us, but you opponent has to hit it in game 2 or 3. There are more problem cards for Sneak Attack decks in my mind.

Final Fortune
05-18-2012, 08:55 PM
Reanimator is faster and more consistent game 1 but the impact of hate game 2+ has far greater weight on Reanimator than it does Sneak Attack, and I don't think Sneak Attack has an unstable manabase fwiw unless people are being stupid, playing Intuition and getting their asses handed to them for it by exposing themselves to Wasteland.

Bright Light Bringer
05-20-2012, 05:18 AM
Won a small tournament this saturday afternoon. People were variating on hate and incredibly I haven't seen a single gy hater artifact for the first time in ages. There were leylines, faeries, purify the grave, surgical, etc. I've beaten White Weenie, LED Dredge, Bant and Hypergenesis by 2-0 and the last match was a variation of Zoo, but in a really aggressive style, which I've beaten by 2-1. We were playing Swiss style but we couldn't have our last match due to some problems with the place the tournament was being held but my position was not threated. Anyway, Thoughtseize has turned the tide really good as well as my 2-of dispels maindeck. My build uses 16 lands btw, which I also think its enough, I've cut the 17th land for the 4th thoughtseize and haven't looked back since.

The funny parts were the two matches I had a leyline t0 in camp and I haven't packed echoing truth to bounce it since one was completely unexpected (Bant, seriously? lol) and I did not care too much for the other one. One I destroyed by forcing and reanimating the opponent's qasali to sac-kill it, and the other one, versus hypergenesis, I had packed in duress only, he cast show and tell and drops emrakul, I drop jin, he discards his hand and passes. I see a nice little angel of despair dropping from his hand to the graveyard and then I reanimated it for emrakul's demise. Funny matches.

As for the deck discussion itself, I see abstolutely NO reason for running less than 4 thoughtseizes. This card is a power house and it gives you precious info, enables you to take down faeries, surgical or whatever you'd like, and also lets you cast it at yourself if you are having problems finding entomb or careful study. Is the 17th land really that much better than this card? I hardly ever brick due to mana, so why would anyone else do it? And as for the my 2 maindeck dispels, well, flusterstorm and spell pierce won't solve your problems in those long games you need working answers to your opponent's threats. Spellpierce is bad anywhere imo, flusterstorm is much better but at long games it loses utility. In my personal experience, we must always be ready to face stp and counters, those are the common choices of players, and dispel is just perfect for that. Having 2 lets you see it here and there in a way your hand won't be flooded.

As for Griselbrand, really, just try it, this thing is amazing and wins game by itself. Its a goddamn 7/7 flying bloodsucker on crack for christ's sake.

Cybey
05-21-2012, 04:41 AM
Bright Light Bringer, any chance you could post your exact decklist?

Bright Light Bringer
05-21-2012, 02:16 PM
I'm working on my mana pool yet but I don't really think I need extra underground seas or the deltas as of now, so far so good, but maybe I'll consider them in the future, so here it is:

2 underground sea
2 watery grave
4 verdant catacombs
4 misty rainforest
1 scalding tarn
2 island
1 swamp

3 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobyte
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Angel of Despair

4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
3 Animate Dead
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Dispel
4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard -
3 Cursed Totem
3 Duress
4 Echoing Truth
3 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Blazing Archon
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One

You may be wondering why would I use 4 copies of both misty rainforest and verdant catacombs. Well, that's because I can go for the green sideboard plan. As for the lack of Show and Tell, I don't think its really necessary. Also, I'm taking out 1 Jin for a Griselbrand as soon as it arrives.

Johanovich
05-28-2012, 07:41 PM
Time to blow some new life into this thread!

I have been testing out the red splash for looting (credit to egosum) and have been liking it very much! Especially the 2nd and 3rd game the flashback can really get you there. The list I now play:

2 jin gitaxias, core augur
2 griselbrand
1 sphinx of the steel wind
1 elesh norn, grand cenobite
1 iona, shield of emeria
1 inkwell leviathan

4 reanimate
4 exhume
3 animate dead
4 brainstorm
4 entomb
4 force of will
4 daze
2 misdirection
4 careful study
3 faithless looting

2 underground sea
1 badlands
1 volcanic island
4 polluted delta
2 scalding tarn
2 bloodstained mire
2 swamp
2 island

SB:

1 angel of despair
1 blazing archon
1 iona, shield of emeria
1 echoing truth
2 thoughtsieze
3 spell pierce
3 show and tell
3 massacre



Now I know people are going to start complaining about me playing only 1 echoing truth in the side (This even used to be a pithing needle to shut down problematic lands) so allow me to clarify this.

First we need to analyse why we play truth in the first place, which is mostly to bounce opposing hate. Offcourse it also has other applications against decks like dredge and belcher, but this is usually marginal.
A list of some of the hate we face nowadays:

Gravehate:

leyline of the void
planar void
relic of progenitus
tormod's crypt
grafdigger's cage
nihil spellbomb
scavenging ooze
extirpate
surgical extraction
faerie macabre

General combo hate:

chalice of the void
thorn of amethyst
thalia, guardian of thraben

Other cards we don't like

swords to plowshares (less of a problem now thanks to griselbrand)

aven mindcensor
path to exile
karakas


(forgive me if I forgot some, but it's just to get the idea and it's already a long list)

Now it is obvious that echoing truth doesn't do much against many cards on the list. And those cards are many of the cards that are being played a lot right now. I almost never see decks who play leyline of the void in their sideboard, mostly because other cards are more versatile.

The cards that caused me to lose games recently (apart from facing a buttload of counters offcourse) are swords to plowshares, thalia, mindcensor, ooze (this is a big one), karakas, chalice, thorn and surgical.

So therefore I opted to play 3 massacre in the sideboard to help me get rid of these annoying critters that prevent me to win or slow me down. As a bonus you can wipe mana dorks, moms, geist, snappie (in stoneblade) and stoneforge. I also put some more discard and counters in the sideboard to fight the cards I can't kill with massacre.

Since I don't want to automatically fold to the superrogue leyline I still have 3 show and tell and 1 truth. That way I have at least 4 answers so these matchups aren't completely lost.

I'm not arguing that everybody should drop echoing truth altogether, I'm just saying that in my case this is a solid metagame call because I almost never see leyline. Should my metagame shift to more leyline's, cages and the likes, then I would drop 1 massacre or 1 pierce for a second truth.

Other comments about the list are most welcome!

Einherjer
05-29-2012, 02:09 PM
You are forgetting a essential point, how is your deck going to beat decks that play GY-hate AND you do not want to drop Show and Tell against, say SneakShow? You have no Gilded Drake, no Bounces ( only one ) so this MUs seems to be unwinable. If that's okay for the local meta-game you got there fine - but reconsider this sideboard if you should enter a large tournament with it.

Greetings

Johanovich
05-29-2012, 02:59 PM
You are forgetting a essential point, how is your deck going to beat decks that play GY-hate AND you do not want to drop Show and Tell against, say SneakShow? You have no Gilded Drake, no Bounces ( only one ) so this MUs seems to be unwinable. If that's okay for the local meta-game you got there fine - but reconsider this sideboard if you should enter a large tournament with it.

Greetings


Well to be honest I've never seen anybody play gilded drakes in reanimator recently. Also echoing truth doesn't do much against their wincons.

I do have blazing archon and angel of despair to drop in if they show and tell, and I'll probably put in my thoughtseizes and pierces, but yeah it isn't a great MU. I could always steal their griselbrand from their graveyard :p

I thought that sneaky show was never a great MU anyway and figured I'd better invest in beating some of the major decks out there, even if this means another matchup becomes worse.

Koby
05-29-2012, 04:52 PM
Well to be honest I've never seen anybody play gilded drakes in reanimator recently. Also echoing truth doesn't do much against their wincons.

I do have blazing archon and angel of despair to drop in if they show and tell, and I'll probably put in my thoughtseizes and pierces, but yeah it isn't a great MU. I could always steal their griselbrand from their graveyard :p

I thought that sneaky show was never a great MU anyway and figured I'd better invest in beating some of the major decks out there, even if this means another matchup becomes worse.

Reanimator used to play Waterfront Bouncer and Gilded Drake as utility. This was during an era that did not have as many ridiculous fatties as today, but they were still an integral part of the strategy.

Johanovich
05-29-2012, 06:10 PM
Reanimator used to play Waterfront Bouncer and Gilded Drake as utility. This was during an era that did not have as many ridiculous fatties as today, but they were still an integral part of the strategy.

True, which is why I said that I haven't seen any recently. If decks like sneaky show and reanimator make a major comeback and start defining a big part of the metagame again, then I would consider running some drakes in the side. But since that isn't happening any time soon, I'd rather stick with blazing archon and angel of despair since they have a broader applicability.

JDK
05-29-2012, 06:43 PM
hm? Sneak Show is already a significant part of the metagame. Reanimator is probably one of the best decks to beat Sneak Show, although their countersuite is superior, which sucks.

Why do I think so? Because Reanimator can keep up the pace with T2 reanimations, discard and lots of effective creatures. I am quite sure Gilded Drake and/or Sheoldred will see a lot more play in the coming weeks and months as well (SB).

Kryptor
06-03-2012, 12:28 PM
I´d really like more to play against sneak Show as against Maverick with ooze, karakas and maze.

And I also don´t understand why all current Lists run Ponder. In old lists i found Lim Dul´s Vault and this card is pretty awesome. Reanimator is a combo Deck and you want to find your combo piece. Careful Study and/or Looting is just bad compared to entomb. An careful studied Elesh does nothing against a Storm Combo deck. This is why i tried this list:

4x Underground Sea
2x Swamp
2x Island
4x Polluted Delta
3x U Fetch
2x B Fetch

2 Jin-Gitaxias
2 Griselbrand
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Angel of Despair
1 Elesh Norn
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

4 Entomb
3 Careful Study

3 Lim-Dûl's Vault
4 Brainstorm

3 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
3 Daze

4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead

SB

3 Show and Tell (i am thinking about +1)
3 Pithing Needle
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Blazing Archon
1 Sphinx of the steel Wind
3 Spell Pierce
1 Perish
2 Echoing Truth

Darksteel
06-04-2012, 05:14 PM
For a few local tournaments, I tried utilizing Not of this World in a build more focused on Griselbrand and other 7 power creatures. The idea was to have an answer that dealt with everything that Griselbrand was weak to, including Karakas (since NOTW counters abilities).

The ideal situation is to get out Griselbrand, and then in response to the way of killing him/bouncing him, draw 7-14 cards and have a big chance of drawing a way to stop it, such as Force, Daze, or the aforementioned NOTW.

NOTW was very good against Maverick, but terribad against storm combo and sneak and show. It also required changing the suite of creatures and reanimation spells (Animate Dead making Griselbrand into a 6/7 is the actual worst with NOTW :P)

Just an interesting direction that could be worth utilizing in Maverick-heavy metagames.

Anyway, I like the list you posted, Kryptor, and I'll definitely test Vault as well. If Sneak and Show isn't used in your local meta (as is currently the case with mine), I'd recommend the miser's 1 Show and Tell in the maindeck. It's been awesome for me.

bLInd12
06-11-2012, 12:47 AM
hey guys, new to this forum but have been playing reanimator for quite awhile, not too sure if you guys have seen this list by Reid Duke he went 2nd in the SCG tournament, Massachusetts running 4 X Griselbrand!

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=46816

Any thoughts?

rxavage
06-11-2012, 12:52 AM
hey guys, new to this forum but have been playing reanimator for quite awhile, not too sure if you guys have seen this list by Reid Duke he went 2nd in the SCG tournament, Massachusetts running 4 X Griselbrand!

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=46816

Any thoughts?

He actually won. And Im glad reanimator did so well. This is what happens when people cut gy hate in their sb.

bLInd12
06-11-2012, 02:19 AM
He won?! Omg awesome! no idea why the SCG game shows that both RUG Delver and Reanimator are 2nd though.

Darksteel
06-11-2012, 02:52 PM
Wow, no Iona in the entire 75, nor Animate Dead.

I don't know if I could ever not run Iona. lol

TheXile
06-11-2012, 02:57 PM
Actually the most critical thing we can learn from Reid Duke's deck I think..is running Blazing Archon in the main deck, I think that's brilliant and agree that in all honesty Iona is far better as a sideboard card. Yes, she does just shut down some decks, but not the one's you really need to be concerned about it...

RUG-the color you name depends on the game state;
1. Blue if you're ahead and they only have 1 creature on the field
2. Red if you're near death and afraid of getting burned out (I've had to do this a couple times)
3. Green if they haven't stuck a threat yet.

Maverick- this one's a complete toss-up and frankly it'd heavily depend on if you'd duress/thoughtsiezed their hand and knew what you were most likely to be concerned about.
1. White: for Swords to Plowshares (and KOTR if it's in their hand)
2. Green: if they have a GSZ in their hand and will have 4 mana the next available turn or so (which gets KOTR..which gets Karakas)

Sneak and Show- this one I'd name blue to stop the show and tell (though to be fair it could actually help us) if I hadn't seen their hand. Red if I knew they had the Sneak Attack and the fattie to go with it (and no show and tell).

On the other hand..Blazing Archon just flat out stops all 3 of those decks from winning, with RUG and Maverick being the only decks to actually have an out (double bolt from RUG and Swords for Maverick).

Darksteel
06-11-2012, 03:11 PM
I lost a game against Maverick yesterday to a top-decked Karakas, so I'm definitely down with running fewer legendary creatures who aren't Griselbrand, but I wouldn't eschew Iona completely. I'd put one in the board at least, personally.

On Animate Dead: It's vulnerable to Stifle, Spell Snare, and Qasali Pridemage, but it doesn't hit your life total, so wouldn't it be better with Griselbrand? In addition, you can target the opponent's graveyard with it, if needed.

JDK
06-11-2012, 03:53 PM
RUG-the color you name depends on the game state;
1. Blue if you're ahead and they only have 1 creature on the field
2. Red if you're near death and afraid of getting burned out (I've had to do this a couple times)
3. Green if they haven't stuck a threat yet.
They cannot stop your 3 turn clock with Mongoose and Goyf and they need to drop at least 3 of them to race you and you can still use countermagic, reanimate more creatures or block. Naming green is pretty much the worst option.


Maverick- this one's a complete toss-up and frankly it'd heavily depend on if you'd duress/thoughtsiezed their hand and knew what you were most likely to be concerned about.
1. White: for Swords to Plowshares (and KOTR if it's in their hand)
2. Green: if they have a GSZ in their hand and will have 4 mana the next available turn or so (which gets KOTR..which gets Karakas)
Look at the Maverick hate Reid Duke is piling up in his sideboard. There is no need to have Iona here (although I wouldn't want to miss her against other matchups).
Anyway, naming white is the better option, because it hits pretty much everything except for GSZ and Ooze (which you don't care about at this point) and some unimportant stuff. You can at least swing for 7 and countering GSZ should be possible.


Sneak and Show- this one I'd name blue to stop the show and tell (though to be fair it could actually help us) if I hadn't seen their hand. Red if I knew they had the Sneak Attack and the fattie to go with it (and no show and tell).
Only name red if you know they can drop Sneak Attack in the following two turns AND you don't have counters! Blue is so much better in this matchup and you should be able to counter a hardcasted Sneak Attack.

Archon definitely deserves a spot in the MD in those SCG metas.

Cutting Animate Dead and going down to 8 reanimation spells is pretty risky (AND going down to 2 SnT SB) and playing 4 Griselbrands makes you ultra vulnerable to Surgical.

whosyourdaddy
06-12-2012, 01:22 PM
About a week ago i started playtesting this fatty suite(after realizing that i go
for Griselbrand about 80% of time i cast Entomb) :
MB
4 x Griselbrand
1 x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 x Terastodon
1 x It that betrays

SB
1 x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 x Platinum Emperion
1 x Blazing Archon


I actually think It that betrays should get more attention(from those fearing maverick matchups especially)
Pros:
-Nonlegendary
-(Given enough time) somehow solves Maze of Ith problem
-Colorless -> no Mother of runes blocking tricks(probably marginally relevant)
Cons:
-Reanimating it pains(a lot)
-Anything else?

I did in fact have two matches agains Maverick where It won the game no other creature would(against an active KotR).
Anyone has any more experience with this guy?

4 x Grisel have been amazing so far. I’m not missing Jin Gitaxias at all. I might consider cuting down to 3 Griselbrands for another Non-legend (right now, Blazing Archon comes to mind obviously), yet I’m not dropping Iona till somebody proves me wrong.
Platinum Emperion is underperforming for me and would probably get kicked.

Also I found Animate dead’s drawbacks hardly relevant and I’m slowly turning to running more of them over exhume. Maybe it’s just my bad luck, but I’ve been sitting with dead Exhume in hand (opponents graveyards including: their Griselbrands, Phyrexian Metamorph, Eternal witness(and a highly relevant one) and many others) too many times, wheras I cant recall all that many situations where casting Exhume over Animate Dead would matter much(apart from occasional surprise entomb after my opp cracking crypt). Not to mention a fair amount of games I’ve won solely thants to my opponent’s creatures.

ykpon
06-12-2012, 02:43 PM
Maybe it’s just my bad luck, but I’ve been sitting with dead Exhume in hand (opponents graveyards including: their Griselbrands, Phyrexian Metamorph...

Metamorph does nothing in your situation unless there is already something dangerous on the table.

whosyourdaddy
06-12-2012, 03:37 PM
Metamorph does nothing in your situation unless there is already something dangerous on the table.

I was pretty sure it works that way. We both reanimate creatures me:Griselbrand, opponent metamorph copying Grisel -> legend rule.
Can anyone correct me?

EDIT: Ok, never mind. I got it.

copywriter
06-13-2012, 06:14 AM
Hi guys

I’m preparing for GP Gent, and Reanimator is one of two decks I’m thinking of playing. The other being a deck I’ve played for years: Canadian Thresh.

I’ve been reading through a lot of posts here, articles online, watched videos on YouTube, etc, but I have some questions for today’s meta. They might sound obvious, but remember that I haven’t played Reanimator before. Hopefully you guys can answer some questions about what I believe to be one of the most powerful decks right now:

1. Is the creature count “fixed” at 8? I see a lot of lists running that number. Has the deck evolved through the years and it’s “common knowledge” that 8 is the correct number?
2. Continuing on creatures, Griselbrand seems nuts. I’ve seen lists with 1 and 4. I’ve read discussions about Griselbrand v Jin. Are we closer to a common answer, or are the jury still out?
3. More creatures, this time silver bullets. Which creatures do you find strong right now? My thought is that Blazing Archon is good (as stated by many others) since Canadian and Sneak & Show don’t have outs to him game 1. Others?
4. Sideboard part 1: My meta, Oslo Norway, has a lot of Dredge. I’m torn about the sideboard simple because I don’t know how good and how reliable Blazing Archon and Elesh Norn are against Dredge. Do we need Leylines or are the two fatties enough? Crypts?
5. Sideboard part 2: Reid Duke played a sideboard with a lot of hate for Maverick. Thoughts?
6. Sideboard part 3: Silver bullets (again). Iona seems sweet against decks like Pox, Goblins, Merfolk, Elves, etc. Decks you might find in the early rounds of big tournaments. Iona seems decent, but perhaps not more, in most other matchups as well. I guess I’m looking for general thoughts about sideboard bullets.
7. Sideboard part 4 (last one): Assuming we won game one, what do you take out against Canadian, Maverick and Sneak & Show? Difficult question I know, a lot of unknown factors, but again: more on a general note.
8. Protection. I feel a big part of Griselbrand’s success in Sneak & Show is because they can protect him. I’ve seen different Reanimator lists with 4 Force of Will, 4 Daze and 2-3 Thoughtseize. Is that enough? How is Misdirection in our list? (Specially since Griselbrand doesn’t have Shroud).
9. 16, 17 or 18 lands. I’m a fan of consistency and not losing to mana screw. In my Canadian Thresh list I’m always running 4 Trops and 4 Volcanics to naturally draw more lands and not open up to much for Stifle. I’m thinking 17 or 18 lands seems correct, perhaps depending on the Ponder count. Thoughts?
10. The easiest question to write, but the most difficult one to answer: how do you play Reanimator? Again, on a general note.

Many thanks! Really hoping and looking forward to reading your answers and discussing this deck more. I’ve started thinking about a list, and some possible tweaks, but I feel it’s way to early to make any conclusions since I don’t know all that much about Reanimator at this stage.

J

Darksteel
06-13-2012, 06:51 AM
1. Is the creature count “fixed” at 8? I see a lot of lists running that number. Has the deck evolved through the years and it’s “common knowledge” that 8 is the correct number?
2. Continuing on creatures, Griselbrand seems nuts. I’ve seen lists with 1 and 4. I’ve read discussions about Griselbrand v Jin. Are we closer to a common answer, or are the jury still out?
3. More creatures, this time silver bullets. Which creatures do you find strong right now? My thought is that Blazing Archon is good (as stated by many others) since Canadian and Sneak & Show don’t have outs to him game 1. Others?
4. Sideboard part 1: My meta, Oslo Norway, has a lot of Dredge. I’m torn about the sideboard simple because I don’t know how good and how reliable Blazing Archon and Elesh Norn are against Dredge. Do we need Leylines or are the two fatties enough? Crypts?
5. Sideboard part 2: Reid Duke played a sideboard with a lot of hate for Maverick. Thoughts?
6. Sideboard part 3: Silver bullets (again). Iona seems sweet against decks like Pox, Goblins, Merfolk, Elves, etc. Decks you might find in the early rounds of big tournaments. Iona seems decent, but perhaps not more, in most other matchups as well. I guess I’m looking for general thoughts about sideboard bullets.
7. Sideboard part 4 (last one): Assuming we won game one, what do you take out against Canadian, Maverick and Sneak & Show? Difficult question I know, a lot of unknown factors, but again: more on a general note.
8. Protection. I feel a big part of Griselbrand’s success in Sneak & Show is because they can protect him. I’ve seen different Reanimator lists with 4 Force of Will, 4 Daze and 2-3 Thoughtseize. Is that enough? How is Misdirection in our list? (Specially since Griselbrand doesn’t have Shroud).
9. 16, 17 or 18 lands. I’m a fan of consistency and not losing to mana screw. In my Canadian Thresh list I’m always running 4 Trops and 4 Volcanics to naturally draw more lands and not open up to much for Stifle. I’m thinking 17 or 18 lands seems correct, perhaps depending on the Ponder count. Thoughts?
10. The easiest question to write, but the most difficult one to answer: how do you play Reanimator? Again, on a general note.

1. It's certainly not fixed, as I've seen some lists run less. 8's been fine for me in testing.

2. Well, Reid Duke just got first place with a list that used 4 Griselbrand and 0 Jin, so it's entirely possible that Grisel's just better. Honestly, ever since I've added Grisel to my list, I've never really wanted Jin except if I can reanimate him turn 2 on the play, and even then it's rare. I'm torn between running 3 Grisel/1 Jin or 4 Grisel/0 Jin at the moment.

3. Archon is better than I thought he was, and I'm gonna move him from my sideboard to the maindeck. Sphinx of the Steel Wind is still awesome, as is Elesh Norn. Iona is a real beating, although Reid Duke didn't use her at all. I'm gonna still keep her. Angel of Despair is still necessary for problem permanents, IMO.

4. I think you're fine against Dredge with just going for Elesh Norn. It's usually tough for them to ever fight it, at least from my experience. Reid Duke had Crypts in his board, though I would personally use Surgical Extraction, since you can bring it in against other matchups and get a pretty big game. In one game against Sneak and Show (Game 2), I managed to Surgical away his Sneak Attacks, and he had boarded out his Show and Tells, which won me the game.

5. Definitely agree with it. Maverick is such a pain.

6. Iona may not be the BEST target in the upper table matchups, but she's not completely useless either.

7. Against RUG Delver, I generally take out Dazes (I hate them on the draw), Animate Dead (They can be Stifled) for Show and Tells, more discard, and Surgical Extraction.

Against Sneak and Show, I bring in Pithing Needle, Echoing Truth (since it deals with the permanent hate they would most likely run, such as Leyline, Relic and so on) and take out Dazes and Exhume. I like Animate Dead and Reanimate because we could possibly steal their Griselbrand via Thoughtseize.

Against Maverick, I'd bring in the Massacre, Perish, Show and Tells, and Pithing Needles and take out Dazes, Animate Dead (They can be killed by Pridemage).

8. I've never tested Misdirection in the main, so I've no experience about this. It seems okay on paper, though.

9. 17 has been good for me for a while now: 9 fetches, 4 Sea, 4 Basics.

10. If I know that my opponent isn't packing counterspells, I play much more aggressively, trying to reanimate as fast as possible. If they are, I play more cautiously.

On the blind, I hope I have Thoughtseize to see what kind of deck they are, which changes my playstyle. Seeing their first land drop/play also is a significant factor.

CranialX
06-13-2012, 10:10 AM
-misdirection is very good in this deck.
-i still prefer 3 Jin/0 Griselbrand. Not yet totally convinced to use Griselbrand.

CorpT
06-13-2012, 10:16 AM
-misdirection is very good in this deck.
-i still prefer 3 Jin/0 Griselbrand. Not yet totally convinced to use Griselbrand.

Really? How many Griselbrand in the Top 8s would convince you? Because there were 12/12 (all decks that could play him did) last week and 0 Jin. People are writing articles talking only about beating Griselbrand.

Drew's intro:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/24274_Griselbrand_vs_The_World_Plus_Decklists_For_Everything.html

"Right now, Legacy is a format of Griselbrand versus everyone else.

Right now, Griselbrand is winning.

The legendary Demon has won two of the last three SCG Legacy Opens in two very different strategies: Sneak and Show and Reanimator. One uses Show and Tell, along with Sneak Attack, to put a Griselbrand from one's hand into play. The other uses Entomb and Careful Study (or Hapless Researcher) to put a monster six feet under before casting a Reanimate or Exhume."

rxavage
06-13-2012, 10:31 AM
Really? How many Griselbrand in the Top 8s would convince you? Because there were 12/12 (all decks that could play him did) last week and 0 Jin. People are writing articles talking only about beating Griselbrand.

Drew's intro:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/24274_Griselbrand_vs_The_World_Plus_Decklists_For_Everything.html

"Right now, Legacy is a format of Griselbrand versus everyone else.

Right now, Griselbrand is winning.

The legendary Demon has won two of the last three SCG Legacy Opens in two very different strategies: Sneak and Show and Reanimator. One uses Show and Tell, along with Sneak Attack, to put a Griselbrand from one's hand into play. The other uses Entomb and Careful Study (or Hapless Researcher) to put a monster six feet under before casting a Reanimate or Exhume."


I wonder where that obnoxious poster that was arguing with and insulting anyone that disagreed that Jin was the better card is.

JDK
06-13-2012, 11:03 AM
I wonder where that obnoxious poster that was arguing with and insulting anyone that disagreed that Jin was the better card is.
Don't be mad at me, just because you lack reading skills. I never sad Griselbrand is bad or Jin is per se better. Not to mention, that the meta has shifted, thanks to Griselbrand itself. The insults are just coming from you, huffy boy.

Also, just because someone has won a single tournament, doesn't prove the list to be the non plus ultra. Just watch the mirror match and be stunned by his sheer luck and stupidity of his opponent.

Now let's take a look at the other top 8 Reanimator lists...ah, that's right, they didn't even place that high. Top 16 then...still nothing. What about the last two SCG Opens? Two Top 16 finishes with only one Griselbrand.

Stop touching yourself. Griselbrand is an insane card, but it's not something you can include as a 4-of without thinking about it.

CorpT
06-13-2012, 11:06 AM
Thought about it. If I play Reanimator this weekend, it will have 4x Griselbrand only because I can't play more.

rxavage
06-13-2012, 11:13 AM
Don't be mad at me, just because you lack reading skills. I never sad Griselbrand is bad or Jin is per se better. Not to mention, that the meta has shifted, thanks to Griselbrand itself. The insults are just coming from you, huffy boy.

Also, just because someone has won a single tournament, doesn't prove the list to be the non plus ultra. Just watch the mirror match and be stunned by his sheer luck and stupidity of his opponent.

Now let's take a look at the other top 8 Reanimator lists...ah, that's right, they didn't even place that high. Top 16 then...still nothing. What about the last two SCG Opens? Two Top 16 finishes with only one Griselbrand.

Stop touching yourself. Griselbrand is an insane card, but it's not something you can include as a 4-of without thinking about it.


You're a pathetic joke and you did say Jin was better "per se". Lol. Funny how you volunteered yourself up as this person if it wasn't you?

Koby
06-13-2012, 11:26 AM
Thought about it. If I play Reanimator this weekend, it will have 4x Griselbrand only because I can't play more.

I wonder if you also start all your decklists these days with:
4 Griselbrand
56 other cards.

CorpT
06-13-2012, 11:30 AM
I wonder if you also start all your decklists these days with:
4 Griselbrand
56 other cards.

Or something that beats Griselbrand very well. Vendillion Cliques, Discard, etc... He's definitely the elephant in the room that must be addressed.

Esper3k
06-13-2012, 11:31 AM
I wonder if you also start all your decklists these days with:
4 Griselbrand
56 other cards.

Tarmogoyf is sad.

That being said, I do think GB is better overall than Jin simply because he fills two roles at once (anti-aggro and anti-control) whereas Jin is mainly anti-control.

JDK
06-13-2012, 11:34 AM
You're a pathetic joke and you did say Jin was better "per se". Lol. Funny how you volunteered yourself up as this person if it wasn't you?

I know you hold a grudge against me, as you clearly stated with your insults in the Hypergenesis thread and now again. Don't let the hate eat you from the inside.
Are you still playing Ancient Tombs in your sideboard? :x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

rxavage
06-13-2012, 11:38 AM
I know you hold a grudge against me, as you clearly stated with your insults in the Hypergenesis thread and now again. Don't let the hate eat you from the inside.


No, I'm just pointing out your stupid "ideas" in a nice manner. You are obnoxious and insulting to alot of other posters. I would quote your old postes but I am lazy. It's true I don't like you and everything you state is worthless. Fix your attitude and the way you talk to people. Remember, you get what you give.

JDK
06-13-2012, 11:42 AM
No, I'm just pointing out your stupid "ideas" in a nice manner. You are obnoxious and insulting to alot of other posters. I would quote your old postes but I am lazy. It's true I don't like you and everything you state is worthless. Fix your attitude and the way you talk to people. Remember, you get what you give.

Bring substance to the table.

inb4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo

Koby
06-13-2012, 11:57 AM
Gentlemen, please take your personal disagreement to PM.

Back to actual content:
With Sneak Show becoming popular recently, what alternative do you see Reanimator taking in the SB that doesn't rely on Show & Tell? Is the Show & Tell SB plan not kick in for this matchup? How does Reanimator address potential GY hate from those decks?

Johanovich
06-13-2012, 11:59 AM
The funny thing is that a fast jin is actually a very good move against sneaky show, especially since they have no real way of dealing with him game 1. Good luck trying to show and tell with only 1 card in hand each turn...

Now for the jin vs griselbrand agrument, I still think that they both deserve a spot. In my local meta there is a lot of storm, and paying 7 life to draw 7 to hope for counters is not all that great aginst them. I've lost games because I only drew daze as a counter and you become a sitting duck at less than 10 life since you used griselbrand with some fetches (he went LED, petal, brainstorm, fetch, ritual, tutor, oh look I can already kill you tendrills).

I will run a 2/1 or a 2/2 split of grisel/jin for now and see what happens. Maybe run a third griselbrand in the future if combo goes down.

Final Fortune
06-14-2012, 01:20 AM
You're a pathetic joke and you did say Jin was better "per se". Lol. Funny how you volunteered yourself up as this person if it wasn't you?

Don't bother, the results will do all of the talking for you and you don't need to waste your time and energy trying to convince lesser minded people of the obvious.

Jin/Sphinx just lost their place in Reanimator to Griselbrand, end of story.

Cybey
06-14-2012, 05:14 AM
I agree with Johanovich here about Jin-Gitaxias. Usually I really like to get Jin over Griselbrand against combo, since (especially game 1) they don't pack sufficient creature removal, forcing them to combo out on the turn after you've dropped Jin.

In my experience they are not very likely to combo out in turn 2 while I drew 7 cards.

rxavage
06-14-2012, 11:21 AM
Don't bother, the results will do all of the talking for you and you don't need to waste your time and energy trying to convince lesser minded people of the obvious.

Jin/Sphinx just lost their place in Reanimator to Griselbrand, end of story.


I apologize for letting my temper best me, I just get sick of the same person using baseless ad hominem attacks to argue their opinions. Anyways... I would argue that Sphinx has a place in Reanimator as long as RUG and to a lesser degree Maverick are played in significant numbers. Granted Blazing Archon does alot of work but he isn't immune to bolts, nor does he have lifelink.

AlmostGrown
06-14-2012, 11:29 AM
Which is best vs Maverick: It that Betrays, Pathrazer of Ulamog, or Angel of Despair

rxavage
06-14-2012, 11:43 AM
Which is best vs Maverick: It that Betrays, Pathrazer of Ulamog, or Angel of Despair


Griselbrand. But it would depend on boardstate honestly.

AlmostGrown
06-14-2012, 11:58 AM
Assume Griselbrand is out of the question. And yea, I understand that it is board state dependent, but which would you want more out of those 3?

rxavage
06-14-2012, 12:06 PM
Assume Griselbrand is out of the question. And yea, I understand that it is board state dependent, but which would you want more out of those 3?

Toss-up between It that betrays and Pathrazer but I would go with ITB.

JDK
06-14-2012, 12:24 PM
I apologize for letting my temper best me, I just get sick of the same person using baseless ad hominem attacks to argue their opinions. Anyways...
It's funny, because you are the only one spamming the curses. Don't be so Emo and move on.


Which is best vs Maverick: It that Betrays, Pathrazer of Ulamog, or Angel of Despair

It that betrays. 2 Turn clock, Annihilator and a pretty decent sideeffect.

DragoFireheart
06-14-2012, 01:34 PM
Doesn't Reanimator nearly auto-beat Sneak Attack decks?

* We run as much disruption if not more ala discard.

* If they SnT in something, we get AoD / Blazing / Grisle in for free.

* We can discard their Grisle and Reanimate it later.

Final Fortune
06-14-2012, 03:31 PM
Doesn't Reanimator nearly auto-beat Sneak Attack decks?

* We run as much disruption if not more ala discard.

* If they SnT in something, we get AoD / Blazing / Grisle in for free.

* We can discard their Grisle and Reanimate it later.

Pre-board, pretty much, altho' you'll have a bitch of a time post-board if they're prepared for you. The problem is that even tho' Reanimator has strategic superiority, that strategic superiority is way more hateable than Sneak Attack's strategy over the course of a match.

Johanovich
06-14-2012, 04:18 PM
I agree with Johanovich here about Jin-Gitaxias. Usually I really like to get Jin over Griselbrand against combo, since (especially game 1) they don't pack sufficient creature removal, forcing them to combo out on the turn after you've dropped Jin.

In my experience they are not very likely to combo out in turn 2 while I drew 7 cards.

Also if your opponent taps out and you get jin then you essentially get a free draw and a big chance of being able to counter whatever answer they might have in hand. And in that situation jin is still a bit better than grisel since it provides you with another creature most of the time and puts the opponent in topdeck mode (with you being able to keep at least 1 counter for them each turn). Most players will automatically scoop to this situation wether they might not if they see a griselbrand with outs in hand.


I would argue that Sphinx has a place in Reanimator as long as RUG and to a lesser degree Maverick are played in significant numbers. Granted Blazing Archon does alot of work but he isn't immune to bolts, nor does he have lifelink.

I agree with sphinx helping in the RUG (and to a lesser extent maverick) matchups. Also don't forget sphinx is good against burn and goblins. Especially since most goblin lists have started playing extra stingscourgers to combat sneak show.

I might put archon in the main to keep my nonlegend count high enough. I still think elesh norn is a powerhouse, but sadly she doesn't do anything against sneaky show.

Right now my creature suite looks like this:
2 jin
2 griselbrand
1 iona
1 elesh
1 inkwell
1 angel of despair

SB:
1 archon
1 sphinx

(1 gilded drake)
(and yes I admit I was wrong about sneak show and the metagame and started playing gilded drake in the side)

Dunno what to take out for archon or sphinx though...

Final Fortune
06-14-2012, 04:30 PM
If you're going for resiliency vs Karakas, I think 4xGriselbrand, Inkwell Leviathon, Blazing Archon and Terrastadon are your best bet, where Inkwell Leviathon and Blazing Archon aren't as good as Iona, Shield of Emeria and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite they're still good enough to get the job done.

I don't think Sphinx is sufficiently better at what it does than Griselbrand in order to merit a slot in your MD or SB fwiw.

The problem I have with Jin, Gitaxis arguments is that they're always argued under a best case scenario for Jin, Gitaxis resolving thru' Sword to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Dismember and Red Elemental Blast to actually get the Draw Seven and Mind Twist in where being able to Draw 7 to either protect Griselbrand or offset your investment is what makes Griselbrand so incredibly fucking broken.

jrw1985
06-15-2012, 11:35 AM
Does this deck look at all playable?

4 Entomb
4 Intuition

4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Show and Tell

3 Grizz
2 Jin Getaxis
1 Blazing Archon

4 Force
4 Spell Pierce
2 Misdirection

4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Swamp
8 Fetch
4 Lotus Petal

Koby
06-15-2012, 12:01 PM
No, you're missing at least 1 fattie. Intuition is too slow for this strategy IMO especiialy considering you're not running Sol-lands.

nyquiz
06-16-2012, 04:22 AM
Put this deck together a few days ago and have been testing quite a bit. I really can't get behind including Jin in the main deck at all. The point of the four Griselbrands in the main is to add consistency to which fatty you have in your hand for careful study or when you're on the draw discard plan.

I'm choosing GB in the first three turns almost 100% of the time against most decks. The few decks where I'd rather have Jin, I'm content with a GB. Which also leads me to believe that splitting them MD is wrong.

I could see an argument for Jin in a SB plan but I think that adding consistency with problem decks with other cards seems like a better plan since GB is pretty close to as good in most cases as Jin.

I also don't understand getting rid of Archon in the main. Sneak and show is cold to this card in G1 and this protects low life totals from creature decks after reanimating and activating GB.

One thing I have been toying around with for the SB is personal tutor. Allows flexible access to careful study, show and tell, exhume, reanimate...It's definitely not the fastest card in the world but adds a bit of consistency and can potentially be that fourth Show if they land GY hate.

Johanovich
06-17-2012, 07:23 AM
I also don't understand getting rid of Archon in the main. Sneak and show is cold to this card in G1 and this protects low life totals from creature decks after reanimating and activating GB.

One thing I have been toying around with for the SB is personal tutor. Allows flexible access to careful study, show and tell, exhume, reanimate...It's definitely not the fastest card in the world but adds a bit of consistency and can potentially be that fourth Show if they land GY hate.

Archon has the main disadvantage of leaving the threats on the field. Right now it is becoming better since show and tell is a matchup you'll likely encounter a lot. If you get archon against decks that pack removal then you can get in trouble if they remove your archon (double bolt against RUG, swords/terminus against maverick, blade, miracle). Elsh norn has the advantage of killing most of the opposite board as soon as she enters the battlefield.

But as I said, because of show and tell, archon is gaining the edge over elesh.

As you say yourself, personal tutor isn't the fastest of cards, which is exacty why many people (including myself) don't like it. Since thought scour is also being played in some RUG delver lists, using personal tutor can become a liability.

Water_Wizard
06-17-2012, 07:27 AM
Someone please explain to me the beauty of the City of Traitors sideboard tech.

Is it versus RUG Delver to fight Spell Pierce and Daze?
Is it to cast Show and Tell a turn earlier?
I've never been a huge fan of running land in my sideboard, unless I'm running Living Wish or lands with non-mana producing abilities like Bojuka Bog or Maze of Ith.

You see it in these lists:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=47007
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=46969
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=46986

The only person who doesn't run CoT is last week's winner, Reid Duke, and he decides to run Hornet Queen: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=46983

into_play
06-17-2012, 08:04 AM
^ My guess about the City of Traitors is that it is there to get the Show and Tell cast earlier. All those lists with the two Cities also have a full four Show and Tells (Duke's previous one only had two). They are probably there to make the deck somewhat transformational to a more typical Show and Tell deck, which is appealing when you're already running four Griselbrands. I feel that Show and Tell has always been busted enough in Reanimator to warrant a playset in the board.

It's great to see Tidespout Tyrant getting some love! I have played him maindeck before and he is a nice alternative to Angel of Despair and Terastodon as the permanent removal creature. In a deck full of one and two-mana cards, he can be used to keep lands out of play and set back more mana-hungry decks, and if he's not removing lands then he's probably removing something much more useful. There are always good targets for him to bounce.

My main question about the recent decklists is why the steep drop in the number of Exhumes? Are opponents having a creature of their own in the bin too common or too big a drawback these days? I'd like to hear some insight into that decision.

Final Fortune
06-17-2012, 08:28 AM
Replacing Exhumes for Animate Dead is a precaution for Dredge (Golgari Grave Troll) and the mirror match, I think.

rxavage
06-17-2012, 09:41 AM
Remember a few months ago when I had ancient tombs in my sb and everyone was like wtf?!?!?! Yeah.

JDK
06-17-2012, 09:45 AM
Remember a few months ago when I had ancient tombs in my sb and everyone was like wtf?!?!?! Yeah.

Maybe because the lifeloss of Ancient Tomb is complete bullshit in this deck?

Yeah. :rolleyes:

rxavage
06-17-2012, 10:02 AM
Maybe because the lifeloss of Ancient Tomb is complete bullshit in this deck?

Yeah. :rolleyes:

And it was explained that in g2-3 when you are more reliant on Show&Tell and Less on Reanimate that -2 doesn't matter. What matters is that you're able to cast your massacre and perish in a timely manner as well. Also that was before I picked up city of traitors.

TheXile
06-18-2012, 01:30 PM
No, you're missing at least 1 fattie. Intuition is too slow for this strategy IMO especiialy considering you're not running Sol-lands.

While I don't agree with the full 4 intuitions, I do like to run 2 in my re-animator, the reason being that if they show and tell after turn 2 (you can intuition for an Archon) and basically lock them down without them being able to do anything relevant. I've also been using 1 Frost Titan in my Reanimator (and before people knock it...give it a shot) it locks down Emarkul/Griselbrand indefinitely (and doesn't allow them to play another..courtesy of the legend rule) it also can't get bounced by Karakas (and can lock down karakas/maze of ith)...also you can hardcast it occasionally.

GerryT
06-18-2012, 03:51 PM
Someone please explain to me the beauty of the City of Traitors sideboard tech.

Is it versus RUG Delver to fight Spell Pierce and Daze?
Is it to cast Show and Tell a turn earlier?
I've never been a huge fan of running land in my sideboard, unless I'm running Living Wish or lands with non-mana producing abilities like Bojuka Bog of Maze of Ith.

You see it in these lists:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=47007
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=46969
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=46986

The only person who doesn't run CoT is last week's winner, Reid Duke, and he decides to run Hornet Queen: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=46983

I played City of Traitors because of the things you said -- it helps fight Spell Pierce and Daze and allows you to cast Show and Tell faster.

After sideboarding, you are a different deck and your mana curve is different. If you were building a hybrid Reanimator/Show and Tell deck you would want more mana sources and some City of Traitors, so if you want your deck to look like that after sideboard, you need to add some lands.

It might seem like a "wasted" slot because it's "only" a land, but it's far more effective at doing what it's supposed to do than something like Pithing Needle. Show and Tell allows you to fight most hate and City of Traitors is like City of Solitude. Both of them are worth their sideboard slots.

Darksteel
06-18-2012, 05:04 PM
I played City of Traitors because of the things you said -- it helps fight Spell Pierce and Daze and allows you to cast Show and Tell faster.

After sideboarding, you are a different deck and your mana curve is different. If you were building a hybrid Reanimator/Show and Tell deck you would want more mana sources and some City of Traitors, so if you want your deck to look like that after sideboard, you need to add some lands.

It might seem like a "wasted" slot because it's "only" a land, but it's far more effective at doing what it's supposed to do than something like Pithing Needle. Show and Tell allows you to fight most hate and City of Traitors is like City of Solitude. Both of them are worth their sideboard slots.

How was Tidespout Tyrant for you?

GerryT
06-18-2012, 06:56 PM
How was Tidespout Tyrant for you?

It was basically the best card of all time. With Animate Dead, it protects itself just by casting an instant (and returning the Animate). Against crazy decks with tons of hateful permanents (Ensnaring Bridge, etc) you need to be able to get rid of multiple permanents. If you ever Griselbrand and draw 7, their board will be clear in a turn or two. Other than that, you can probably just chain cantrips.

Never cutting it from Reanimator.

Water_Wizard
06-18-2012, 07:09 PM
I played City of Traitors because of the things you said -- it helps fight Spell Pierce and Daze and allows you to cast Show and Tell faster.

After sideboarding, you are a different deck and your mana curve is different. If you were building a hybrid Reanimator/Show and Tell deck you would want more mana sources and some City of Traitors, so if you want your deck to look like that after sideboard, you need to add some lands.

It might seem like a "wasted" slot because it's "only" a land, but it's far more effective at doing what it's supposed to do than something like Pithing Needle. Show and Tell allows you to fight most hate and City of Traitors is like City of Solitude. Both of them are worth their sideboard slots.

Thanks GerryT! Good point, once you add Show and Tells, it becomes a different deck with a higher mana curve.

Congrats on your finish!

Any predictions on the June 20th bannings?

GexxX
06-20-2012, 02:54 AM
Thanks GerryT! Good point, once you add Show and Tells, it becomes a different deck with a higher mana curve.

Congrats on your finish!

Any predictions on the June 20th bannings?

I took out my Reanimator cards a few weeks ago when I saw Griselbrand in action. Storm is not that fun with Combo decks running FoW and all the RUG and other nasty things running around. Feels good to bash some skulls with fatties once again.
Surgical Extraction is a problem in my metagame so I run a 3/1 slpit of Jin and Grisel at the moment, but I might play 4 in the future. The list you have put together plays a lot smoother than the last one I've been playing especially postboard.

A card I am also very curious about is the Tyrant. Did it do the job? I think it's not only good against karakas and such, but it's very versatile and therefor a good inclusion in the Maindeck. I've loved this card since people abused it in Vintage Oath variants, but I completely forgot about him. Thanks for the reminder and congrats on the finish!

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_reanimator_with_gerr.html

In case anyone is as curious about some of the other inclusions as I was. :wink:

Arsenal
06-20-2012, 09:56 AM
Just bought everything I need for Reanimator (used Todd Anderson's SCG list as a starting point). I'm pretty pumped about being able to play with Griselbrand. Few matchup questions:

I have Maverick, BUG Landstill, Elves, RUG Delver, and BW Stoneforge in my meta. What should I be looking for in those matchups? I feel the Maverick (none of their creatures matter), Elves (Elesh Norn > them), and Stoneforge matchups should be pretty easy without any real thought, but BUGstill and RUG Delver will probably give me a run for my money.

aCatNamedBootsy
06-20-2012, 10:25 AM
Just bought everything I need for Reanimator (used Todd Anderson's SCG list as a starting point). I'm pretty pumped about being able to play with Griselbrand. Few matchup questions:

I have Maverick, BUG Landstill, Elves, RUG Delver, and BW Stoneforge in my meta. What should I be looking for in those matchups? I feel the Maverick (none of their creatures matter), Elves (Elesh Norn > them), and Stoneforge matchups should be pretty easy without any real thought, but BUGstill and RUG Delver will probably give me a run for my money.
If you land Sphinx or Griselbrand against RUG, they pretty much lose to it. I'm not sure about how to deal with BUGstill, but I'd imagine you'd use Sphinx and Griselbrand there as well.

Esper3k
06-20-2012, 12:08 PM
Don't underestimate the Maverick matchup - they actually have a lot of tools to deal with Reanimator's creatures.

StP, Scavenging Ooze, Karakas, Qasali Pridemage (for Animate Dead), Thalia are all cards that need to be considered.

Snap_Keep
06-20-2012, 12:54 PM
he is nowhere near the level of Jin-Gitaxias.

So do you still think Jin is better then Grizzy?

adamt
06-21-2012, 12:03 PM
Kira seems like it would be good vs all the legendary fatty hate (karakas, stp, drake, etc..)

JDK
06-21-2012, 12:34 PM
So do you still think Jin is better then Grizzy?

Maybe you should read the whole sentence, or at least the rest of the if-clause: "if I cannot use his ability he is nowhere near the level of Jin-Gitaxias." (this was in the context of Stifle)

Sorry, to sweep away your excitement.

rxavage
06-21-2012, 12:40 PM
If I recall correctly your sole argument as to why Jin was better was because of his "mind twist" ability. Griselbrand is a better target the results speak for themselves.

Lim-Dul
06-22-2012, 03:17 AM
It was basically the best card of all time. With Animate Dead, it protects itself just by casting an instant (and returning the Animate). Against crazy decks with tons of hateful permanents (Ensnaring Bridge, etc) you need to be able to get rid of multiple permanents. If you ever Griselbrand and draw 7, their board will be clear in a turn or two. Other than that, you can probably just chain cantrips.

Never cutting it from Reanimator.


Hello Gerry

I loved the idea of the tyrant and because i was never 100% happy with the angel of despair in the MB, so i replaced it.
In some game he was awsome (=clear board after one or two turns!! Love it!!), BUT i had such a hard time beating a Karakas or a Maze of Ith. Sure i can/should counter the KotR to prevent the problematic lands from beeing tutored. but lands can be drawn from the top of the deck (as we know). what to do then? how did you beat these lands?

Would you still play the same creatures? never missed shroud? Or Jin?

GexxX
06-22-2012, 10:01 AM
Hello Gerry

I loved the idea of the tyrant and because i was never 100% happy with the angel of despair in the MB, so i replaced it.
In some game he was awsome (=clear board after one or two turns!! Love it!!), BUT i had such a hard time beating a Karakas or a Maze of Ith. Sure i can/should counter the KotR to prevent the problematic lands from beeing tutored. but lands can be drawn from the top of the deck (as we know). what to do then? how did you beat these lands?

Would you still play the same creatures? never missed shroud? Or Jin?

Tyrant is a non-legendary Creature. Since I've been testing the Djinn GW is an even better matchup, just because you are racing them. Bounce the biggest Threads (Knights/goyf) and when the recast, do it again. That's basically like timewalking. :)

Johanovich
06-23-2012, 03:53 PM
I am wondering why everybody seems to be playing with a manabase of 18 lands nowadays.
I did a small analysis to check how a 18 land deck compares to a 16 land deck.

On a 100 000 simulations:
16 land:
Mulligan information:
Number of lands in start hands:
0 Land(s): 6545 times (6,54%)
1 Land(s): 23420 times (23,42%)
2 Land(s): 32990 times (32,99%)
3 Land(s): 24026 times (24,03%)
4 Land(s): 10256 times (10,26%)
5 Land(s): 2404 times (2,4%)
6 Land(s): 337 times (0,34%)
7 Land(s): 22 times (0,02%)

Number of start hands w/o 1-st drops: 4400 (4,4%)
Number of start hands w/o 1-st and 2-nd drops: 264 (0,26%)

18 land:
Mulligan information:
Number of lands in start hands:
0 Land(s): 4311 times (4,31%)
1 Land(s): 18131 times (18,13%)
2 Land(s): 30953 times (30,95%)
3 Land(s): 27654 times (27,65%)
4 Land(s): 14103 times (14,1%)
5 Land(s): 4108 times (4,11%)
6 Land(s): 672 times (0,67%)
7 Land(s): 65 times (0,07%)

Number of start hands w/o 1-st drops: 4311 (4,31%)
Number of start hands w/o 1-st and 2-nd drops: 391 (0,39%)

Now what I see from this is that you gain next to nothing from those 2 extra lands. Generally speaking, reanimator wants to have one, two or three lands in the starting hand and enablers/fatties, counters or cantrips and reanimate spells as the rest. Hands with four or more lands are usually rubbish.

From the statistics it is clear that you only increase the number of useless hands by adding lands to the deck.

I can understand that you switch 2 lands to sol lands from out of the sideboard to be able to cast show and tell earlier and to be spell pierce/daze resistant, but surely game 1 you don't want to be bricking just because there are to many lands in your hand.

If anyone can enlighten me, please do :wink:

Dzra
06-23-2012, 06:48 PM
I think that perhaps this is a little bit of a narrow way of looking at things. I think something better would be calculating "Good Hands" "Keepable Hands" and "Unkeepable Hands." Obviously this is somewhat MU dependent, but I think you can make a general rule of thumb.

A way to look at that might be:
A 0-lander is Unkeepable.
A 1-lander without Ponder is Unkeepable.
A 1-lander with Ponder is Keepable.
A 2-lander anything is a Good Hand.
A 3-lander no Ponder/BS is Keepable.
A 3-lander with Ponder or Brainstorm is Good.
A 4-lander no BS is Unkeepable.
A 4-lander with BS is Good if one of the 4 lands is a fetch and Unkeepable without the fetch.
A 5-lander with BS is Keepable if one of the 4 lands is a fetch and Unkeepable without the fetch.

I believe something like this will give you a better idea of how to maximize Good and Keepable Hands better than 1, 2, 3 landers are good; 0, 4, 5, etc landers are bad.

Johanovich
06-23-2012, 08:15 PM
I think that perhaps this is a little bit of a narrow way of looking at things. I think something better would be calculating "Good Hands" "Keepable Hands" and "Unkeepable Hands." Obviously this is somewhat MU dependent, but I think you can make a general rule of thumb.

A way to look at that might be:
A 0-lander is Unkeepable.
A 1-lander without Ponder is Unkeepable.
A 1-lander with Ponder is Keepable.
A 2-lander anything is a Good Hand.
A 3-lander no Ponder/BS is Keepable.
A 3-lander with Ponder or Brainstorm is Good.
A 4-lander no BS is Unkeepable.
A 4-lander with BS is Good if one of the 4 lands is a fetch and Unkeepable without the fetch.
A 5-lander with BS is Keepable if one of the 4 lands is a fetch and Unkeepable without the fetch.

I believe something like this will give you a better idea of how to maximize Good and Keepable Hands better than 1, 2, 3 landers are good; 0, 4, 5, etc landers are bad.

I would partly disagree with this, since a hand with entomb/careful study + fattie and 1 land (and a reanimation spell preferably) would definitely stand as keepable with me (especially if the land is a fetch). If you use the study, then by next turn you have seen 3 cards, which should give you a very hight chance of hitting another land in case you have exhume or animate dead.

My point was mostly that last year most lists had 16 or 17 lands and since a few weeks ago everybody started using a manabase with 18 lands. Reanimator is supposed to be a deck that kicks ass while using only a few lands since everything costs 1-2 mana. Therefore you don't want excess lands in order to prevent them getting in the way from winning.

Sturtzilla
06-23-2012, 11:52 PM
My point was mostly that last year most lists had 16 or 17 lands and since a few weeks ago everybody started using a manabase with 18 lands. Reanimator is supposed to be a deck that kicks ass while using only a few lands since everything costs 1-2 mana. Therefore you don't want excess lands in order to prevent them getting in the way from winning.

This is an issue that has been tweaked and re-tweaked for years. Unfortunately there is probably no defined, correct answer. At 16 lands you are less likely to draw dead in the mid to late game. At 18 land you are more Daze and Spell Pierce resistant. Hell, about a year ago, I top 16ed a SCG event with only two Brainstorms in my list. I had decided have logging thousands (literally thousands) of sample hands that I would rather have "business" spells than Brainstorms. I am not saying that was a correct choice, but rather that what is good as far as the deck's exact configuration fluctuates with time.

Here is the list:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39923

Arsenal
06-24-2012, 11:30 AM
If you know your opponent has very, very few options to deal with a reanimated fatty, but your facing down a semi-scary board, is Thoughtseizing yourself to get a fatty in the yard ever the right play? Like, if your opponent has a pretty thick army forming, but you know his removal is all blanked, is Thoughtseizing yourself and Exhuming an anti-creature fatty (Sphnix, Elesh, Blazing Archon) the right call?

JUNI0R
06-24-2012, 11:58 AM
If you know your opponent has very, very few options to deal with a reanimated fatty, but your facing down a semi-scary board, is Thoughtseizing yourself to get a fatty in the yard ever the right play? Like, if your opponent has a pretty thick army forming, but you know his removal is all blanked, is Thoughtseizing yourself and Exhuming an anti-creature fatty (Sphnix, Elesh, Blazing Archon) the right call?

Of course thoughtseizing yourself is a good line if you have no other options for getting a creature into the yard. Obviously you would rather careful study or entomb but in a pinch hitting yourself with thoughtseize gets the job done. That's one of the benefits of using targeted discard over say duress that only can hit your opponent.

rxavage
06-24-2012, 11:58 AM
If you know your opponent has very, very few options to deal with a reanimated fatty, but your facing down a semi-scary board, is Thoughtseizing yourself to get a fatty in the yard ever the right play? Like, if your opponent has a pretty thick army forming, but you know his removal is all blanked, is Thoughtseizing yourself and Exhuming an anti-creature fatty (Sphnix, Elesh, Blazing Archon) the right call?

Thats the whole point of running TS over duress or IoK.

egosum
06-24-2012, 01:07 PM
Thats the whole point of running TS over duress or IoK.

This is not the whole point. Thoughtseizing oneself is a corner case scenario (though in desperate situations might be useful), most of times you need seize to clear the way. The whole point is the versatility, since TGZ is the only card that can take both Fow/Thalia (for instance).

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

GexxX
06-25-2012, 03:13 AM
Thoughtseize also hits Scavenging Ooze, Faerie Macabre and thelike. It's versatile and that's what we want in our disruption package. Our Sideboard is pretty tight. I personally do not have a single slot to pack additional disruption against certain Decks. Thoughtseize is just best overall.

Alsan
06-25-2012, 08:52 AM
This is an issue that has been tweaked and re-tweaked for years. Unfortunately there is probably no defined, correct answer. At 16 lands you are less likely to draw dead in the mid to late game. At 18 land you are more Daze and Spell Pierce resistant. Hell, about a year ago, I top 16ed a SCG event with only two Brainstorms in my list. I had decided have logging thousands (literally thousands) of sample hands that I would rather have "business" spells than Brainstorms. I am not saying that was a correct choice, but rather that what is good as far as the deck's exact configuration fluctuates with time.

Here is the list:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39923

This is the point :). I've been playing for years too, and with 16 lands I'm fine. I've been testing submerge in the Flusterstorm slots, and it fits very well, but I hardly dislike the City of traitors plan. I prefer Duress to discard the Spierce.

rxavage
06-25-2012, 10:33 AM
This is not the whole point. Thoughtseizing oneself is a corner case scenario (though in desperate situations might be useful), most of times you need seize to clear the way. The whole point is the versatility, since TGZ is the only card that can take both Fow/Thalia (for instance).

Greetings,

Iñaki.-



Wait so you're telling me people don't run Thoughtseize because you can disrupt the opponent AND target yourself to bin a fatty?!?!?! Riiight.

egosum
06-25-2012, 02:12 PM
No, I'm just saying it s not the whole point, just corner case (talking about seizing oneself). Sorry for the off-topic, I' ll leave it here.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

JDK
06-25-2012, 04:20 PM
No, I'm just saying it s not the whole point, just corner case (talking about seizing oneself). Sorry for the off-topic, I' ll leave it here.
Don't worry, some people are incapable of reading. ;)

Darksteel
07-01-2012, 03:40 AM
So... Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Vendilion Clique out the board in Reanimator? (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpatl12/welcome#7)

Not gonna lie, it seems intriguing and completely unexpected, albeit not so much after the GP. Regardless, it does give the deck another plan of action post board. Thoughts?

DLifshitz
07-01-2012, 04:38 AM
So... Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Vendilion Clique out the board in Reanimator? (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpatl12/welcome#7)

Not gonna lie, it seems intriguing and completely unexpected, albeit not so much after the GP. Regardless, it does give the deck another plan of action post board. Thoughts?

In that case it might be easier on the manabase if you go with Delver of Secrets instead of Jace.

GexxX
07-11-2012, 04:23 AM
So... Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Vendilion Clique out the board in Reanimator? (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpatl12/welcome#7)

Not gonna lie, it seems intriguing and completely unexpected, albeit not so much after the GP. Regardless, it does give the deck another plan of action post board. Thoughts?

I think it depends on the Matchup. Clearly Delver does not do much against removal-heavy lists. The question is what Jace does best and in my oppinion he's quite good when you have to fight through slow clocks paired with enough graveyard hate to get that plan completely out of your head. Maybe that was what they expected. It also dodges Karakas quite effectively and that's where the Show and Tell plan is ineffective.
I personally did not test that plan to verify my thoughts, but it makes sense considering you're playing more cautious post-board almost controlish sometimes.

regards,

GexxX

TerribleTim68
07-12-2012, 08:00 PM
Ok, so I'm bored and you guys seem to be doing a lot of arguing so I'm going to post a tourney report. :tongue:

I ran this deck at my local Legacy event last night (I think this was the list) -
Enchantments
4 Animate Dead
Instants
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
Creatures
1 Angel Of Despair
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
4 Griselbrand
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Sorceries
4 Careful Study
1 Exhume
4 Ponder
4 Reanimate
3 Duress
Basic Lands
4 Island
2 Swamp
Lands
3 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
3 Bloodstained Mire

SB
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Massacre Wurm
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Show And Tell
Enough other "1 of" dudes to make a 15 card SB. :tongue:

Ok, a few explenations. I don't own any Thoughtseize and can't afford them, so Duress will have to do today. I also only have the 2 Underground Sea so I'm making do. :tongue:

Ok, here goes!

Round 1 vs Random U/W Thing:
Game 1 - I mull to 4 before finding anything that resembles a keeper, flop around for a while until he eventually beats me down with a Mirran Crusader that I can't do anything about. :frown:

Game 2 - I boarded the Iona, Shield of Emeria for one of my other "1 of" dudes and proceeded to go turn 2 Iona, Shield of Emeria on white putting a stop to that crap. Iona, Shield of Emeria gets there easily.

Game 3 - Turn 2 Griselbrand is too much for him to deal with. Turn 3 Iona, Shield of Emeria on white again spells the end.

(1-0)

Round 2 vs Jason playing Elf-Combo:
Game 1 - On the play, I open with fetch and pass. He opens with Forest, Elf and passes. I EoT crack the fetch, Entomb Grizzlebrand. Jason sighs deeply and says "Seems good". I untap, draw and Reanimate. Jason says "Let's just go to the next one."

Game 2 - I board that Massacre Wurm for one of them "1 of"s, the Show And Tells expecting a Leyline and shuffle up. Jason flops around a bit having mulled and still only gotten a 1 lander. He opens with Forest, non-mana Elf. I open with fetch, spend a couple turns sculpting while countering his Glimpse of Nature he desperately needed to get out of his mulligan pickle he was in. Turn 3 Jason has some elves going on when I Show And Tell that Massacre Wurm. It's enough to actually kill him on the spot. Who knew the Wurm was so good against Elves? :wink:

(2-0)

Round 3 vs Kevin playing Canadian Threshold:
Game 1 - Let me start by saying I have yet to beat Kevin in a match ever! I may sneak off with a game, but he ALWAYS wins the match. And he ALWAYS plays that deck. :rolleyes: He has all the counters when he needs them and I can't do anything but die to a Nimble Mongoose.

Game 2 - Much of the same, only this time I die to a flipped Delver Of Secrets while he counters everything I try to do. Oh, and I had gotten paired down. Yay me! :rolleyes:

(2-1)

Round 4 vs Austin playing Pox:
Game 1 - Turn 2 Griselbrand has to be the coolest thing in the world. :cool:

Game 2 - Yup, I'm convinced of it, turn 2 Griselbrand is possibly the coolest thing ever invented. :cool:

(3-1)

I end up 3rd since 4 of us are tied at 3-1 and my tie-breakers kind of suck for what ever reason. Jason wins it, yea that's right, the Jason playing Elf-Combo, the one I crushed. :eyebrow:

Some day I'll figure out how to beat Kevin.

rxavage
07-12-2012, 08:08 PM
About time someone else realized how useful Massacre Wurm can be.

jamis
07-13-2012, 06:47 PM
Has anyone considered going all-in on Griselbrand and Jin-Gitaxias preboard? I've been messing around with the following list.

4 Griselbrand
4 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur

4 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead

4 Brainstorm

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Thoughtseize

4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
2 Swamp
1 Island

Postboard, you can take out some Jin-Gitaxiases for creatures that are designed better for whichever match-up you're facing, but the greater redundancy by playing Careful Study and Faithless Looting with 8 draw 7 creatures seems like it may have some merit. Karakas becomes a bigger problem so it still might be better to go -1 Jin-Gitaxias +1 Tidespout Tyrant or even Terastodon, but the general idea is there.

rxavage
07-13-2012, 06:52 PM
I'd stick to Griselbrand and a few problem-solvers, personally. Although a one-of Jin in the board against combo and the mirror is a good idea.

TerribleTim68
07-13-2012, 07:49 PM
I left the singleton Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur maindeck just in the off chance I end up against a deck like High Tide, which gets played a lot in my meta. I was hoping it would give me a better shot at that game-1. But I would not consider running more than the singleton and even at that I never tutored him up for action. But I also didn't see High Tide or anything of that sort where he might have shined. In the future I will probably stay with the singleton even though he really could be moved to the board. But honestly, I don't fret much over those singleton critters much, just get em in your 75 and you're probably doing ok. My board needed a ton of help, but it still showed the strength of this deck that I did so well with such a random board and a slightly lacking maindeck. :wink:

I mean, yea there might have been a little thought put into my board. But mostly it was just "I know I need 4 Show And Tell, and some Surgical Extractions are usually pretty good, I like Iona, Shield of Emeria and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite seems solid, that Massacre Wurm is a foil so let's run that". But the rest was just "let's make sure we have 15 cards in here". :wink: I think I ran a Platinum Emperion and a Stormtide Leviathan, maybe even a Platinum Angel. My point is, the deck is strong as long as you get pretty dang close on the first 60.

I also don't feel like the deck NEEDS to run 8 critters either. 4 Grizzlebrand and 2 to 3 singleton "other dudes" seems to be money. Why mess with that? You'd have to find room for that 8th critter too, and I don't want to try to do that.

Johanovich
07-14-2012, 07:26 AM
I left the singleton Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur maindeck just in the off chance I end up against a deck like High Tide, which gets played a lot in my meta. I was hoping it would give me a better shot at that game-1. But I would not consider running more than the singleton and even at that I never tutored him up for action. But I also didn't see High Tide or anything of that sort where he might have shined. In the future I will probably stay with the singleton even though he really could be moved to the board. But honestly, I don't fret much over those singleton critters much, just get em in your 75 and you're probably doing ok. My board needed a ton of help, but it still showed the strength of this deck that I did so well with such a random board and a slightly lacking maindeck. :wink:

I mean, yea there might have been a little thought put into my board. But mostly it was just "I know I need 4 Show And Tell, and some Surgical Extractions are usually pretty good, I like Iona, Shield of Emeria and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite seems solid, that Massacre Wurm is a foil so let's run that". But the rest was just "let's make sure we have 15 cards in here". :wink: I think I ran a Platinum Emperion and a Stormtide Leviathan, maybe even a Platinum Angel. My point is, the deck is strong as long as you get pretty dang close on the first 60.

I also don't feel like the deck NEEDS to run 8 critters either. 4 Grizzlebrand and 2 to 3 singleton "other dudes" seems to be money. Why mess with that? You'd have to find room for that 8th critter too, and I don't want to try to do that.

I keep the 1 jin in the main to combat surgical extraction, storm decks, the mirror and sneaky show (when they don't have a creature yet).
I tutored for jin during my last tournament against TES. First game used elesh to kill his 16 tokens, second game bounced 8 tokens with truth and then proceeded to get jin for the fatal blow (got a griselbrand with the jin for complete overkill next turn). He is still very strong and if you allow your 4 griselbrand to be removed by surgical extraction then jin is the next best thing to get. Plus in the worst case he pitches to force.

I have iona and inkwell in the sideboard (and gilded drake but he is usually not part of the combo). You need enough critters to support show and tell second game and to get one in your hand with study/looting. I think you still need at least 7 to do this.

Edit: Allright! We're back in the decks to beat section!

aljiichiban
07-14-2012, 09:55 AM
HI:


Just have some questions regarding sideboarding;

1)Are previous SB cards like spell pierce, dispel(for surgical) and bounce not that effective anymore?


2) What do we usually take out post board? I know we board out Daze, but are there times we take out thoughtseize, and even FOW in favor of anti-hate?

3) Is a 2-of pithing needle enough for SB, or should it be a 3 of?

randomly.anonymous
07-18-2012, 10:20 PM
I want to include Submerge in the board to strengthen the Show and Tell -> Gristlebrand and opponent has Knight of the Reliquary or Revoker.

This is my current list:

17 Lands

3 Animate Dead
2 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize
4 Gristlebrand
1 Tidesprout Tyrant
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Gin-Gitaxis, Core Augur

SB:
4 Show and Tell
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Echoing Truth
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Submerge

It is also randomly strong vs other stuff like Thalia, Scavenging Ooze, Revoker, and has cute interactions with Surgical Extraction.

Water_Wizard
07-19-2012, 10:40 PM
Against what decks would be bring in both Submerge and Surgical Extraction?

Do you run into problems casting Show and Tell with only 17 mana? The reason a lot of the decks run the extra 2 Sol-lands in the sideboard is to up the mana curve in order to cast Show and Tell.

I may have miscounted, but I believe the main deck you listed is 59 cards.

randomly.anonymous
07-20-2012, 03:06 AM
My list is exactly that. I actually have 18 lands. Whoops.

That's a good point. I can't think of any matchups where that would happen. It just seemed cool/interesting on paper =|

I have been testing the Submerge/SnT plan-board on mws and it's been quite alright.
Against RUG decks it has performed well (un-flipping Delver or bouncing goyfs), and it has saved me many times after my opponent puts in KoTR under a show.
It's a narrow answer, but if you're expecting a lot of RUG/maverick/rock type decks, it's quite a solid answer.

Water_Wizard
07-20-2012, 04:28 AM
Yes, I would say Submerge is strongest against Scavenging Ooze, however, the other options you list are good as well.

Also, end of turn vs. Thalia, assuming the deck sporting Thalia also has a forest in play and you've got a mana open.

aljiichiban
07-23-2012, 04:19 AM
Currently trying out this list:

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Underground Sea
3 Swamp
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Ponder
2 Griselbrand
1 Hapless Researcher
2 Thoughtseize
1 Blazing Archon
1 Spell Pierce
1 Animate Dead
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Tidespout Tyrant

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Show and Tell
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 2 Dispel
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 1 Inkwell Leviathan


I tried to replace the third thoughtseize by spell pierce, since the lifeloss at times becomes significant. 2 dispels are for surgical and have a 2/1 split of grisel/jin. I was thinking of replacing the dispels with flusterstorm, since it has a wider variety and becomes stronger at counter wars. I was also thinking of adding a 9th fetch land, making it 61 cards MD in an attempt to have better chances of casting Show and tell post board.

Will it hurt our deck if we increase the MD to 61?

rxavage
07-23-2012, 10:06 AM
You should be adding an Island over a fetch and you should cut one of the creatures to make 60, having 61 cards isn't going to hurt the deck in any significant way but 61 cards in reanimator is unnecessary.

bfeingersh
07-23-2012, 04:51 PM
I have been pretty happy with the City of Traitors board plan. My current list and board are as such:

18 Lands:
4 Sea
4 Delta
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Black fetch
2 Blue fetch
2 Karakas (could be -1 Karakas +1 Blue fetch)

4 Reanimate
4 Animate Dead
1 Exhume

4 FOW
4 Daze
3 Thoughtseize

4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Entomb

4 Griselbrand
1 Iona
1 Tidespout
1 Archon

SB:
2 City
4 S&T
1 Elesh Norn
2 Massacre
2 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
2 Coffin Purge

I might go -1 Exhume +1 Thoughtseize because TS is insane, but I generally like having the 9th reanimate.

Bright Light Bringer
07-24-2012, 01:40 AM
I like it how when a new list comes out, everyone copies it straight away without thinking (especially since they are basically local metagame calls). Karakas maindeck, TWO sol lands in the sideboard that are untutorable, unfetchable only serve to two purposes (avoiding pierce and casting show and tell, to talk about narrow) may screw you up if its the only land in your opening hand. Then there is this whole sudden hate towards jin, which is perfectly fine and in no way does it have the same function as griselbrand, which is hyped as fuck tbh, at least in the sense that everyone is suddenly playing 4 of it as if it meant the second coming of jesus christ. I wanna see when people start boarding totem or needle to hate it and you'll see that your entire deck depends on a single creature. Simple strategies usually have simple counters. Reanimator is a toolbox, this is not sneak and show nor hypergenesis, its not supposed to be a brainless griselbrand summoner as those decks.

And what about show and tell, its basically the only real sideboard showing up in nowadays list, which means even a goddamn goblin deck with a single faerie macabre in hand will probably destroy this deck altogether, or something stupid as burn. All it takes is simple stuff such as a cage since most of these sideboards have no way to deal with anything other than hating out maverick and casting show and tell blindlessly. At least if every deck ran 4 thoughtseize, then it would be a bit better, but 2? 3? Come on, ever noticed you may sneak an enemy emrakul or griselbrand into play? (normally show and tell would NEVER be sided in against decks holding these cards, but now that the sideboards look stupid, your are forced to it).

And I find it really funny when I see people saying that Tidespout Tyrant is god yet it doesn't change the game state as it hits play, its ability will probably do something only on the next turn, which is very often too late as it will get hated out straight away, its not permanent, it never gets to deal with karakas or maze and its just amazing when its the only thing that you can reanimate while the opponents field is swarming with real threats. I don't see the reason to play this instead of archon or even something despised such as Sheoldred if all you wanna do is annoy your opponent or gain time. For the later empyrial archangel is there to do the job. In a perfect world its a real nice card, but not in one where simple stuff such as StP can make it go to hell, leaving your efforts meaningless and showing you the exit door of the championship in a match you could have won had you chosen truly effective cards to add to your deck.

Forgive me for being harsh, but I'm just annoyed about how there is no real strategy development and valid argumentation that is fluid for this deck, not at least in these forums, its just a bunch of people doing the usual ctrl c ctrl v from another guy's list and it kills the purpose of this particular thread per se.

Dzra
07-24-2012, 02:08 AM
While I sort of agree, I notice that you also are just filling the thread up with garbage. Instead of mindless ranting, try adding something constructive.

I don't understand why you'd run Karakas over Wasteland. This makes zero sense to me. They both can deal with Karakas the moment you play them; the difference is that Wasteland also deals with Maze of Ith and anything else. I suppose you could run out your Karakas first so they can't play theirs, but then you are just open to a Wasteland yourself. I think Submerge is a better choice for dealing with Ooze/KotR (and therefore Karakas). Pithing Needle isn't horrible either. Perish is probably fine, especially if you are on the sol land plan.

aljiichiban
07-24-2012, 03:56 AM
Forgive me for being harsh, but I'm just annoyed about how there is no real strategy development and valid argumentation that is fluid for this deck, not at least in these forums, its just a bunch of people doing the usual ctrl c ctrl v from another guy's list and it kills the purpose of this particular thread per se.

Your opinion about netdecking(we all know why people netdeck lists) is respected but as what the previous post said, please provide solutions/suggestions you might have after ranting(or posting with sarcasm). Otherwise, what you're doing is counterproductive.

Why not start a post with what you're suggesting instead, which is discussing strategies?


Reanimator is a toolbox, this is not sneak and show nor hypergenesis, its not supposed to be a brainless griselbrand summoner as those decks.

I agree. Not all situations you want grisel in the yard. There are times that jin(or other creatures) are the better choice.



And what about show and tell, its basically the only real sideboard showing up in nowadays list, which means even a goddamn goblin deck with a single faerie macabre in hand will probably destroy this deck altogether, or something stupid as burn. All it takes is simple stuff such as a cage since most of these sideboards have no way to deal with anything other than hating out maverick and casting show and tell blindlessly. At least if every deck ran 4 thoughtseize, then it would be a bit better, but 2? 3? Come on, ever noticed you may sneak an enemy emrakul or griselbrand into play? (normally show and tell would NEVER be sided in against decks holding these cards, but now that the sideboards look stupid, your are forced to it).


For me, 3 thoughtseize is ideal, 2 is a preference, and 4 is too much. While it is good against macabre, it makes your best reanimation spell weaker(reanimate).

While macabre is very strong against our deck, it's very weak against other gy decks like dredge. So if your meta is filled with reanimator, expect to face the faerie (and sometimes leyline) post board.

Poor Leno
07-24-2012, 05:59 AM
Hello everyone!

@Dzra: Karakas being strong vs SnT decks as well as in the mirror makes it better then wasteland imo. It also bounces Thalia. Having the Karakas in play makes you susceptible to waste, but if they play/fetch waste, then your Grisel/Iona/Elesh will stay in play for one more turn compared to if they would have been able to play their Karakas. That being said, I've have not playtested Karakas enough.

@Bright Light Bringer: While I think that you do have a point and that this forum could be much better. I think Tidespout Tyrant is a lot better then you give it credit for. You speak of toolbox then suggest Tyrant to be replaced by Archon/Sheoldred/Empyrial. Tyrant/Angel of Despair is an out to whatever permanent causes us trouble. Tyrant is also very strong when animated by Animate Dead. Lately i've been playing with Tyrant and I think it's straight up better then Angel of Despair, except for when you need to play vs a Karakas. With the exception of Karakas when do you find Despair to be superior? Please share your thoughts.

Regarding the SB. The sol lands is to increase your mana sources as well as acceleration and if youre on the SnT plan then it's in no way narrow. Daze/Pierce also see a lot of play. I was skeptical at first, but the plan has it's merits. The alternative is more disruption.

"And what about show and tell, its basically the only real sideboard showing up in nowadays list, which means even a goddamn goblin deck with a single faerie macabre in hand will probably destroy this deck altogether" - This makes no sense. SnT makes the Macabre less useful?

Playing 4 Griselbrand makes both Careful Study and SnT "more consistent" so to speak. Griselbrand is also a lot better suited for a faster metagame and does not call for an additional animate to win the game as Jin often does. That said, I do agree with you regarding Jin still being good.

Bright Light Bringer
07-24-2012, 06:18 AM
I'm usually posting in mtgsalvation's thread instead of this and, honestly, I've made a lot of especific criticism in my previous post and that is contributing for me. But well, to sum up some of the ideas I've posted over mtgsalvation:

- I believe there should be a split of jin and griz as in 2-2.

- I REALLY dislike show and tell. I don't know if it works for you guys but I find myself overly frustrated when trying this route because you'll usually side out reanimation spells/enablers, which makes the overall deck weaker, and keep cantripping forever. I have tried it with 2 personal tutors and it seemed better overall, but still I'd rather try it as a last resource only. It's a Reanimator deck, so I like the idea of keeping the style instead of changing it g2/3. For that purpose I've added cards such as Hurkyl's Recall if I'm expecting the usual variety of artifact hate, especially after graffdigger's cage has really taken a hit on pithing needle's reliability and its been pretty effective. The needle stays basically to shut down liliana, jace, karakas and maze.

- I have already tried splitting green to enable the use of Xantid Swarm, Pernicious Deed and Nature's Claim on the sideboard. Pernicious is just bad, xantid can be pretty helpful at times but I'm not sure it's the right call (needs more testing) and Nature's Claim feels pretty fine if packed along 4 thoughtseizes. Leave the claims for the artifacts/leylines and deal with surgical and macabre with thoughtseize. Really simple and effective.

- The main reason I dislike 4 griselbrand is that if he takes too long to hit the game then that probably means your life total is probably pretty bad, which means he'll not be the drawing-machine-on-crack its supposed to be for one or two turns, while Jin would have drawn you the win and discarded the opponents hand. Also, some lists tend to run no copies of Iona and no Jin also, which makes me frown at how bad they are against storm and the like, especially since those are supposed to be easy matches. I've even seen a 4 grisel and 3 archons only list and I think it's total bullcrap.

- Since I've considered pernicious deed to be a bad card overall, one can only guess I also probably dislike perish. Well, that is correct. I haven't really tested it that much but playing 3 mana to kill green problematic green creatures, namely Ooze and KOTR, while I could have dealt with them all permanently and really shutdown the whole maverick deck with a single 2 colorless mana Cursed Totem doesn't seem like a wise choice for me. Add along some massacres and you've got yourself an incredibly cheap and effective maverick hunting package. Submerges seem to work really fine as well, its the only positive addition I've seen in nowadays lists to be honest.

- Ratchet Bomb is a handful card but its risky. I'd use it in a metagame filled with artifact hate instead of some other cards. Overall not really reliable.

- The two sol lands in the sideboard really seem like a bad joke. I think its hard enough to cantrip into show and tell + the creature to care that much about a card that would only work after you've finished your hand sculpting, which usually gets you the mana needed, and would rarely show up at all. Its rather pointless in my opinion. Karakas maindecked looks even worse, its too much of a metagame call, and one that has way too much reanimators and sneak attack decks that you should be able to beat normally (I consider sneak attack a favorable match and reanimator would obviously be a 50/50, so overall, reanimator's got the advantage). The extensive use animate dead's getting lately, although innacurately due to its sinergy with Tidespout Tyrant as stated by Gerry T, helps to show that nowadays decklists are built towards beating fatty-in-game-cheating decks due to Griselbrand's overhype. Once Griz fever settles down, I can only bet they are just going to change dramatically again.

- Those Jaces I saw in some sideboards... please, just, PLEASE... stop it.

And those are some of my ideas.

Even though I dislike the card, I've always believed no one should sideboard less than 4 show and tell if that's your g2/3plan. And since this idea has finally been "settled", I would be glad to hear how you guys sideboard for the usual matches it comes in, just out of curiosity.

Edit: Also, my current metagame currently has a LOT of graveyard hate due to it being small in numbers of players. One guy even runs a beautiful sideboard consisting of 3 gilded drake, 4 surgical extraction, 4 cages and 4 faerie macabre to show his love for reanimator (I'm the only player here that is guaranteed to show up with a reanimator deck in every championship and there was this time when I disclassified him in a bigger one and he went all butthurt, so yeah, that's the love I'm getting lol). Hell, I've even faced maverick running leyline of the void, which I had no answer to but I ended up destroying it with his own Qasali Pridemage, and laughed quite a bit, especially when I've won that tournament afterwards. So bear this in mind when you analyze my ideas. One should understand that I'm always looking for "catch all" sideboarding techniques and that I'm always considering new ideas. And again, as much as I'd LOVE to spam show and tell, the thing just doesn't work for me, that is why I ask you about how you use it, assuming I'm doing something wrong.

And sorry for the walltext.

Johanovich
07-24-2012, 06:53 AM
- I believe there should be a split of jin and griz as in 2-2.

- I REALLY dislike show and tell. I don't know if it works for you guys but I find myself overly frustrated when trying this route because you'll usually side out reanimation spells/enablers, which makes the overall deck weaker, and keep cantripping forever. I have tried it with 2 personal tutors and it seemed better overall, but still I'd rather try it as a last resource only. It's a Reanimator deck, so I like the idea of keeping the style instead of changing it g2/3. For that purpose I've added cards such as Hurkyl's Recall if I'm expecting the usual variety of artifact hate, especially after graffdigger's cage has really taken a hit on pithing needle's reliability and its been pretty effective. The needle stays basically to shut down liliana, jace, karakas and maze.

- The main reason I dislike 4 griselbrand is that if he takes too long to hit the game then that probably means your life total is probably pretty bad, which means he'll not be the drawing-machine-on-crack its supposed to be for one or two turns, while Jin would have drawn you the win and discarded the opponents hand. Also, some lists tend to run no copies of Iona and no Jin also, which makes me frown at how bad they are against storm and the like, especially since those are supposed to be easy matches. I've even seen a 4 grisel and 3 archons only list and I think it's total bullcrap.

Even though I dislike the card, I've always believed no one should sideboard less than 4 show and tell if that's your g2/3plan. And since this idea has finally been "settled", I would be glad to hear how you guys sideboard for the usual matches it comes in, just out of curiosity.



Hi

This is my current list:

3 griselbrand
1 jin gitaxias, core augur
1 blazing archon
1 elesh norn, grand cenobite
1 sphinx of the steel wind
1 tidespout tyrant

4 reanimate
4 exhume
3 animate dead
4 brainstorm
4 entomb
4 force of will
4 daze
2 misdirection
4 careful study
3 faithless looting

2 underground sea
1 badlands
1 volcanic island
4 polluted delta
2 scalding tarn
2 bloodstained mire
2 swamp
2 island

SB:
3 echoing truth
2 pithing needle
3 show and tell
2 thoughtsieze
2 duress
1 gilded drake
1 inkwell leviathan
1 iona, shield of emeria

-Now I usually run either a 3/1 split of griselbrand/jin, or a 2/2 split. Since storm is pretty much dead in my local meta, the 3/1 split is now a bit better. I have encountered 1 storm deck in the last 3 tournaments which was TES. And I forced him to go for the empty the warrens plan in both games, winning with elesh and echoing truth. If storm would rise again then I would probably put some cursed totems back in but now they don't work so well with 3 grisels.

-Same reason iona is in the sideboard, no storm = less reason for iona.

-I hate the sol land plans and karakas in reanimator. I play a singleton gilded drake in the sideboard with bounce and discard, and archon + tidespout in the main which deals with problematic creatures. I might up the land count by 1 though because of the high number of daze and spell pierce.

-on tidespout: I've disliked angel of despair anyways and since I have the red splash for looting I have to keep my blue count high enough so I can pitch enough cards to fow if necessary. I have noticed people just giving up if you land tidespout since you can essentially timewalk them just by brainstorming.

-I have a mix of show and tell/echoing truth/pithing needle to combat gravehate and I usually bring in discard if I've won game 1 for some dazes. I usually bring in 4-6 anti gravehate cards depending on what I think he is using. I do have to say that with more reanimator/show and tell decks popping up everywhere that show and tell is becoming less good.

-I run misdirection main (and I always have been running 2 in my 75 even when played UB lists) so you can hardly say that this is a copied list. :wink:

Only things I might change now is maybe up the count of needles or add a few totems for the duress, which haven't been that great lately.

I played against following decks in last tournaments:
-instant reanimator
-monoblack reanimator
-RUG delver
-Bant
-Show and order
-UR delver
-Goblins (both monored and with black splash)
-TES
-Infect stompy
-Stoneblade (both UW and esper)
-Meathooks

aljiichiban
07-25-2012, 01:16 AM
this is the SB that I used in a local tourney 3 days ago:

SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Show and Tell
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 2 Dispel
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 1 Inkwell Leviathan

vs RUG:
- 1 elesh norn, -2 thoughtseize, -1 animate dead, -2 daze

+ 2 dispel, + 2 persish(they ran mongoose and ooze), + 2 needle
SnT is slow in this match up

vs Dead guy ale:

- 1 blazing, - 1 entomb, -1 reanimate, -1 exhume -2 daze

+ 2 echoing, + 2 massacre, + 3 SnT

vs UW stoneblade:

- 1 elesh, -1 blazing, -3 daze, -1 reanimate, -1 exhume, - 1 entomb
+ 3 SnT, + 2 needle, + 2 dispel, + 1 inkwell

vs ROCK:

- 1 elesh, -1 blazing, - 3 daze, - 1 entomb, -2 reanimate, -1 exhume, -1 careful

+ 3 SnT, + 2 dispel, + 1 inkwell, + 2 massacre, + 2 perish.

While dispel has it merits, I figured that flusterstorm is better. It;s a spell pierce at worst, only that it can target creature spells as well.

wolfstorm
07-25-2012, 02:39 AM
While dispel has it merits, I figured that flusterstorm is better. It;s a spell pierce at worst, only that it can target creature spells as well.

Flusterstorm can't target creatures, it can only hit instants and sorceries.

rnightingale
07-25-2012, 03:07 AM
Maybe he just simply ctrl-c,v'd some decklist not knowing what Flusterstorm can do...lmao... while putting 61 cards in a deck is an old story though.

aljiichiban
07-25-2012, 04:06 AM
Maybe he just simply ctrl-c,v'd some decklist not knowing what Flusterstorm can do...lmao... while putting 61 cards in a deck is an old story though.

Or maybe I just realized that flusterstorm was better in a certain situation when I was playing, but didn't read the whole card though(my bad). You might want to read the post again, because you missed the part that flusterstorm was not in the sb list, but rather being contemplated upon and will be tried for testing.

61 cards in a deck is an old story, but some still try and test it and find out for themselves if it makes a difference..

bfeingersh
07-25-2012, 01:12 PM
People think running a couple of Karakas or sol lands is horrible because we can't tutor for them. What do we have that maverick doesn't? 11+ cantrips that can be used to find bullets.

Johanovich
07-25-2012, 02:39 PM
People think running a couple of Karakas or sol lands is horrible because we can't tutor for them. What do we have that maverick doesn't? 11+ cantrips that can be used to find bullets.

This is not the point (or at least not in the way I see it). The point is that you are deluting your strategy and running things that don't do THAT much for you. A hand with sol land + karakas is almost a certain mulligan since they don't give the right colors.


this is the SB that I used in a local tourney 3 days ago:

SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Show and Tell
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 2 Dispel
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 1 Inkwell Leviathan

vs RUG:
- 1 elesh norn, -2 thoughtseize, -1 animate dead, -2 daze

+ 2 dispel, + 2 persish(they ran mongoose and ooze), + 2 needle
SnT is slow in this match up

vs Dead guy ale:

- 1 blazing, - 1 entomb, -1 reanimate, -1 exhume -2 daze

+ 2 echoing, + 2 massacre, + 3 SnT

vs UW stoneblade:

- 1 elesh, -1 blazing, -3 daze, -1 reanimate, -1 exhume, - 1 entomb
+ 3 SnT, + 2 needle, + 2 dispel, + 1 inkwell

vs ROCK:

- 1 elesh, -1 blazing, - 3 daze, - 1 entomb, -2 reanimate, -1 exhume, -1 careful

+ 3 SnT, + 2 dispel, + 1 inkwell, + 2 massacre, + 2 perish.

While dispel has it merits, I figured that flusterstorm is better. It;s a spell pierce at worst, only that it can target creature spells as well.

Why do you always take out elesh norn? I mean against RUG delver she is a powerhouse. They have no way to beat her since she kills delvers, turns mongeese to 1/1's or pulp and makes tarmogoyfs easy bait for elesh. And they'd have to use 3 bolts to get rid of her.

I'd also think you might need more anti-graveyard hate in that matchup since in my meta they combine crypt, cage and surgicals. And to combat all of that you need both needles and truths or hurkyll's recall.

Against stoneblade elesh isn't the best choice, but she kills stoneforge, spirit tokens and shrinks batterskull so I wouldn't take her out so easily.

jamis
07-25-2012, 02:49 PM
vs RUG:
- 1 elesh norn

Don't you want Elesh Norn in this MU? It takes out Delver, stops them from playing Ooze, and either kills Mongoose or makes it insignificant, so the only threat they have left is Goyf, and that will likely max out at 2/3. And in order to answer it, they have to triple bolt.

E: guess Johanovich thought the same. I do take Elesh Norn out against Stoneblade though

GerryT
07-25-2012, 03:49 PM
Karakas deals with their Karakas. If you are all uppity about running a colorless land, consider that I put it in my deck in a spell slot. There are anti-hate cards like Thoughtseize, Force of Will, and there's also Karakas.

As other have pointed out, when you sideboard in Show and Tells, your mana curve goes up, so you want additional lands. Not only does City allow you to play faster SNTs, but it also allows you to play around Daze or Spell Pierce more efficiently.

Those of you who want to play stock Reanimator will probably find that the format has evolved to beat you. Either you can keep playing matchups where you're dominated or you can adapt.

aljiichiban
07-25-2012, 07:04 PM
This is not the point (or at least not in the way I see it).

Why do you always take out elesh norn? I mean against RUG delver she is a powerhouse. They have no way to beat her since she kills delvers, turns mongeese to 1/1's or pulp and makes tarmogoyfs easy bait for elesh. And they'd have to use 3 bolts to get rid of her.

I'd also think you might need more anti-graveyard hate in that matchup since in my meta they combine crypt, cage and surgicals. And to combat all of that you need both needles and truths or hurkyll's recall.

Against stoneblade elesh isn't the best choice, but she kills stoneforge, spirit tokens and shrinks batterskull so I wouldn't take her out so easily.

Point taken. I'll try out Elesh norn post board. Most RUG decks I know run surgical, crypt and Ooze instead.


Don't you want Elesh Norn in this MU? It takes out Delver, stops them from playing Ooze, and either kills Mongoose or makes it insignificant, so the only threat they have left is Goyf, and that will likely max out at 2/3. And in order to answer it, they have to triple bolt.

E: guess Johanovich thought the same. I do take Elesh Norn out against Stoneblade though

The reason I take out elesh post board against stoneblade is while she kills those spirits, stoneblades and shrinks the buffed germ token, she is prone to removal like swords or PTE at times, post board. That's why I prefer to side in inkwell instead.

lostgenius
07-27-2012, 12:24 PM
4x Reanimate
4x Entomb
3 Careful Study
3 Force of Will
2 Daze
4 Brainstorm
1 Intuition
3 Exhume
2 Animate Dead
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Terastodon
3 Spell Pierce
4 Thoughtseize
4 Underground Sea
4 Swamp
3 Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta


Hello all, this is my first attempt at Reanimator. I do have a good bit of the core deck complete, just need assistance on the rest, and how do you think it would synergate with one another. Thanks!

bfeingersh
07-27-2012, 01:01 PM
Cut the shocks for more fetches (Deltas). You want to be able to fetch basics as often as possible.

Edit: After giving it a real glance, that's an interesting list.

lostgenius
07-27-2012, 02:48 PM
Cut the shocks for more fetches (Deltas). You want to be able to fetch basics as often as possible.

Edit: After giving it a real glance, that's an interesting list.

Interesting how?

And I'm guessing basics in case Wasteland?

ween
08-03-2012, 10:06 PM
There's some Mono B threads, but they are from 2010. So in preference to Reanimating (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Reanimate) one of those i'm going to try this here and i'd love some input on my list.

It's not UB, because my set of Force of Will (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Force%20of%20Will) are in my High Tide deck, so i wanted to run straight Mono Black, with discard in favour of counterspell for protection.

20 Swamp (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swamp)
4 Dark Ritual (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Dark Ritual)
4 Entomb (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Entomb)
4 Thoughtseize (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Thoughtseize)
4 Reanimate (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Reanimate)
4 Hymn to Tourach (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Hymn to Tourach)
4 Exhume (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Exhume)
4 Liliana of the Veil (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Liliana of the Veil)
4 Griselbrand (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Griselbrand)
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Iona, Shield of Emeria)
1 Angel of Despair (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Angel of Despair)
1 Blazing Archon (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Blazing Archon) or Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Elesh%20Norn,%20Grand%20Cenobite)
1 Empyrial Archangel (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Empyrial Archangel)

Last 4 slots i am not sure about. Here's some thins i was considering and was after your input on.

Some combination of;
2 Diabolic Edict (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Diabolic Edict)
2 Snuff Out (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Snuff Out)
2 Unmask (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Unmask)
2 Duress (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Duress)

Or, swapping out the Liliana for;
4 Buried Alive (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Buried Alive)
and
4 Animate Dead (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Animate Dead) or 4 Life//Death (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Life%20//%20Death)

In addition to that swapping 4 Swamp (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swamp) -> 4 Lotus Petal (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lotus Petal)

20 seemed like a good spot to start on with lands and with no filtering from Blue, i think there needs to be more than the UB variant. However, swapping 4 land for 4 petals could speed things up a turn, making a draw more explosive.

Sideboard i was looking at working with;
2 Massacre (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Massacre)
2 Perish (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Perish)
3 Mindbreak Trap (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mindbreak Trap)
3 Leyline of the Void (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Leyline of the Void)
5 Whatever doesn't make the maindeck from Diabolic Edict (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Diabolic Edict), Snuff Out (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Snuff Out), Unmask (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Unmask), Duress (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Duress)
Would love some amount of Nevinyrral's Disk (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Nevinyrral's%20Disk), but the Beta ones are so expensive that i could just invest in 4 more FoW, and go UB if i was going to invest in them.

So again, this isn't going to be a Top 8 contender, but i'd like to make it as competitive as possible while remaining straight black.

dameus
08-17-2012, 02:42 AM
@ween, seems like you know it, but you're always gonna be a dog to the UB version.
Especially since the UB version is currently in the DTB section, it seems like posting your list in the mono B thread is best.
But since I'm already posting this, a few parting pieces of advice ...
Why not play some Wastelands? With no filtering and a low curve, it seems to suggest itself
Need more reanimate effects (recommend Animate Dead)
Lilianna just doesn't quite work - too slow.
Oona's Prowler would fit, tho. Or maybe Small Pox.
You have no answer to graveyard hate [hardcasting Gris doesn't count ; ) ], so up the discard - 4x duress main - and cross your fingers.
Even though you're playing B, LotV is still a 4 of in the SB or not at all.
And FWIW, I'd still prefer a FoW-less UB version to your mono B list. Discard is a reasonable sub for countermagic, but you're still dearly missing careful study, other filters, and bounce.

ween
08-19-2012, 07:31 PM
@ween

Cheers for the input. Food for thought.

I played some games with my friend piloting this deck, and me on High Tide, and a FoW'd re-animate spell is just back breaking. So i'd agree with more disruption, more reanimation, and no Liliana.

Will also consider Wasteland

aljiichiban
08-19-2012, 08:56 PM
Has anybody tested against Miracle Control? What will be our plan vs that deck pre board and post board? Are we just left with hoping that they won't draw terminus, or be able to brainstorm it if they have it from opening hand?

Johanovich
08-20-2012, 02:47 PM
Has anybody tested against Miracle Control? What will be our plan vs that deck pre board and post board? Are we just left with hoping that they won't draw terminus, or be able to brainstorm it if they have it from opening hand?

I haven't tested much against it yet, but since they usually don't run the full set of karakas it would seem that a early iona on white makes for tight buttocks for the UW miracle player. The only reliable out against her except for karakas is jace.

Inkwell leviathan also blanks swords, but still ends up at the bottom with terminus. Jin and griselbrand are also early options to set up other beasts but I think that getting more than 1 threat out can be problematic with a control deck, especially if they run the countertop lock (which is pretty much game over if it lands for us). Maybe tidespout can steal some games here too since the triggered effect is difficult for them to deal with.

Empyrial is definitely too slow for this matchup as 4 turns is a lot of time to dig for a terminus with brainstorm/ponder/top shenanigans.

Overall I expect this to be a very nasty matchup, as is pretty much any control deck which runs both counters and targeted + nontargeted removal

jrw1985
08-20-2012, 04:17 PM
I haven't tested much against it yet, but since they usually don't run the full set of karakas it would seem that a early iona on white makes for tight buttocks for the UW miracle player. The only reliable out against her except for karakas is jace.

Inkwell leviathan also blanks swords, but still ends up at the bottom with terminus. Jin and griselbrand are also early options to set up other beasts but I think that getting more than 1 threat out can be problematic with a control deck, especially if they run the countertop lock (which is pretty much game over if it lands for us). Maybe tidespout can steal some games here too since the triggered effect is difficult for them to deal with.

Empyrial is definitely too slow for this matchup as 4 turns is a lot of time to dig for a terminus with brainstorm/ponder/top shenanigans.

Overall I expect this to be a very nasty matchup, as is pretty much any control deck which runs both counters and targeted + nontargeted removal

Shouldn't Iona name blue? That way you can still counter their removal and miracles but they can't counter anything of yours or dig/hand sculpt. If you name white they still have 3 turns to dig for Jace, play it with counter backup, and take over the game. If Iona names blue the counter spell game becomes one-sided in your favor. Maybe name white if they'll be dead in one attack, but if they have turns to dig name blue. Or again, maybe it depends on whether you have counter spells in hand too. If you don't have counters you have to name white and just hope to get there. But if you have counters you name blue and plan on countering their removal spells.

Johanovich
08-20-2012, 06:00 PM
Shouldn't Iona name blue? That way you can still counter their removal and miracles but they can't counter anything of yours or dig/hand sculpt. If you name white they still have 3 turns to dig for Jace, play it with counter backup, and take over the game. If Iona names blue the counter spell game becomes one-sided in your favor. Maybe name white if they'll be dead in one attack, but if they have turns to dig name blue. Or again, maybe it depends on whether you have counter spells in hand too. If you don't have counters you have to name white and just hope to get there. But if you have counters you name blue and plan on countering their removal spells.

The problem is that you usually run out of counterspells without a creature like jin or griselbrand on the board.

So if you were able to resolve a reanimate spell with iona, your hand is probably going to be near-empty. If you can resolve iona with spare counters then sure, naming blue is a very good option. But if you have no more counters then (statistically speaking) naming white will be better since there is a smaller chance of them hitting the right out to it. Every situation is different and depending on what happened and what the opponents plays the choices vary. I just assumed that against a control deck you would've probably had to fight through counters anyway which implies that both you and your opponent lack counters when she hits the board.

Johanovich
09-07-2012, 08:44 AM
I noticed many people play 2-3 massacre in the board for the maverick matchup. If I play the UB version then I also choose for massacre, but with the red splash I figured I could play some other spell since red is the burning color.

I thought about playing pyroclasm of firestorm in the sideboard. Both have up- and downsides compared to each other and to massacre. To sum it up:

Massacre:
+ can kill mom
+ is usually free against the decks you'd use it
- narrow in applications (being primarily maverick)
- sorcery

Pyroclasm:
+ cheap at 2 mana
+ has a wider application spectrum
- can't kill a creature protected by an active mom
- sorcery

Firestorm:
+ functions as a discard outlet
+ cheap at 1 mana
+ instant speed
+ has a wider application spectrum
- can't kill a creature protected by mom
- generates massive card disadvantage if the strategy goes wrong
- can't kill hexproof and shroud creatures like mongoose

I'd really like to use something like firestorm because of the instant speed, but it can backfire greatly. Ideally I'd like something like pyroclasm at instant speed and for 1-2 mana. Any thoughts on this?

bfeingersh
09-13-2012, 01:04 PM
Massacre doesn't require you to go into a third color...

I prefer Perish over any of those though.

Johanovich
09-15-2012, 07:59 AM
There's some Mono B threads, but they are from 2010. So in preference to Reanimating (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Reanimate) one of those i'm going to try this here and i'd love some input on my list.

It's not UB, because my set of Force of Will (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Force%20of%20Will) are in my High Tide deck, so i wanted to run straight Mono Black, with discard in favour of counterspell for protection.

20 Swamp (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swamp)
4 Dark Ritual (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Dark Ritual)
4 Entomb (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Entomb)
4 Thoughtseize (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Thoughtseize)
4 Reanimate (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Reanimate)
4 Hymn to Tourach (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Hymn to Tourach)
4 Exhume (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Exhume)
4 Liliana of the Veil (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Liliana of the Veil)
4 Griselbrand (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Griselbrand)
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Iona, Shield of Emeria)
1 Angel of Despair (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Angel of Despair)
1 Blazing Archon (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Blazing Archon) or Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Elesh%20Norn,%20Grand%20Cenobite)
1 Empyrial Archangel (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Empyrial Archangel)

Last 4 slots i am not sure about. Here's some thins i was considering and was after your input on.

Some combination of;
2 Diabolic Edict (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Diabolic Edict)
2 Snuff Out (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Snuff Out)
2 Unmask (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Unmask)
2 Duress (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Duress)

Or, swapping out the Liliana for;
4 Buried Alive (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Buried Alive)
and
4 Animate Dead (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Animate Dead) or 4 Life//Death (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Life%20//%20Death)

In addition to that swapping 4 Swamp (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swamp) -> 4 Lotus Petal (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lotus Petal)

20 seemed like a good spot to start on with lands and with no filtering from Blue, i think there needs to be more than the UB variant. However, swapping 4 land for 4 petals could speed things up a turn, making a draw more explosive.

Sideboard i was looking at working with;
2 Massacre (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Massacre)
2 Perish (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Perish)
3 Mindbreak Trap (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mindbreak Trap)
3 Leyline of the Void (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Leyline of the Void)
5 Whatever doesn't make the maindeck from Diabolic Edict (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Diabolic Edict), Snuff Out (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Snuff Out), Unmask (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Unmask), Duress (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Duress)
Would love some amount of Nevinyrral's Disk (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Nevinyrral's%20Disk), but the Beta ones are so expensive that i could just invest in 4 more FoW, and go UB if i was going to invest in them.

So again, this isn't going to be a Top 8 contender, but i'd like to make it as competitive as possible while remaining straight black.

Griselbrand (and some of the other reanimation targets) don't do as much for you in the monoblack list as they do in UB lists since you can't draw into counters to respond to removal. Therefore it might be useful to get creatures that already have shroud or hexproof + some griselbrands to reset if he gets removed.

But personally if I were to go for a monoblack list, I'd use the necrotic ooze + triskelion + phyrexian devourer combo.

You can use lotus petals and dark rituals to speed you up so you can win on turn 1 or turn 2.

List might be something like this:
4 dark ritual
4 lotus petal

1 triskelion
1 necrotic ooze
1 phyrexian devourer
4 griselbrand

3 oona's prowler
4 buried alive
4 entomb
4 reanimate
4 shallow grave
2 animate dead

4 thoughtseize
4 hymn to tourach

13 swamp
3 ancient tomb

I chose oona's prowler instead of putrid imp because she is a better beater. With all the discard you run your opponent isn't going to have much to discard very soon.

Shallow grave is a nice tech that can ensure you get 7 life and 7 cards out of grisel since you can attack immediately. It also means you can win during your opponent's turn with ooze (for whatever reason besides being very cool).

16 lands may seem too few, but you can funtion on 1 land since you have petals and rituals. The 3 ancient tombs can be swamps too I just thought it could be useful with buried alive.

Sideboard might consist of the things you listed: gravehate, some removal and extra discard. Mindbreak trap is a good idea too.

lostgenius
09-23-2012, 11:16 PM
Ok, so I will be going to the Star City Open in New Orleans on the 28th of October. I've been working hard, and this is the deck I've come up with. So far it's done really well, but always room for improvement. I ask that you all devour this deck and let me know how it's looking. I want to do well, hoping to place in the top 30-50 range. Of course, I would gladly accept the number one spot ;)


Creatures - 9
2x Griselbrand
2x Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Angel of Despair
1x Terastodon
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Sorcery - 14
4x Careful Study
4x Reanimate
3x Thoughtseize
3x Exhume

Instant - 17
4x Entomb
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Brainstorm
1x Intuition

Enchantment - 2
2x Animate Dead

Land - 18
4x Underground Sea
1x Watery Grave
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Verdant Catacombs
3x Island
4x Swamp

Sideboard - 18
3x Show and Tell
4x Mindbreak Trap
4x Spell Pierce
4x Surgical Extraction
3x Pithing Needle

The sideboard is over. I know this, but I'm not sure how it should look exactly.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated, thanks!


PS - Why is Reanimator now a former DTB?

dameus
09-24-2012, 01:16 AM
I don't play this deck much, so maybe others will have better advice. Anyway, definitely play the 4th Exhume; no Watery Grave (sub a fetch land for it) and why no bounce in the board? Echoing Truth still gets the job done.

lostgenius
09-24-2012, 02:26 AM
I don't play this deck much, so maybe others will have better advice. Anyway, definitely play the 4th Exhume; no Watery Grave (sub a fetch land for it) and why no bounce in the board? Echoing Truth still gets the job done.

I completely agree with you on the Echoing Truth. I have noticed that other than getting Angel of Despair out, or Terastodon, I have no board control over my opponent other than counters. What do you suggest I take out for them? Sideboard or main board?

For the additional exhume, I'm thinking of taking out a creature, maybe Sphinx of the Steel Wind. Problem is, she's saved me on a number of occasions due to the double life gain with Grisel, and Karakas can't touch her. I don't know, opinion?

The Watery Gave is something I've been playing around with. I noticed I tend to stay away from it due to the shock factor. I was thinking that since Wasteland is such a big deal, why not a 5th dual land, yeah not so much.

Thanks for the assistance, you've given me a lot to think about.

xfxf
09-24-2012, 06:50 PM
Were you guys able to figure out what was going on with Milton Figueroa's invitational Renimator list without any counters, no S&T in the sideboard and 4 Delvers?

blindspotxxx
09-24-2012, 08:20 PM
Were you guys able to figure out what was going on with Milton Figueroa's invitational Renimator list without any counters, no S&T in the sideboard and 4 Delvers?

Artifact Creatures
1 Platinum Emperion

Creatures
1 Angel of Despair
1 Sphinx of Uthuun

Enchantments
4 Animate Dead


Instants
4 Brainstorm
1 Darkblast
4 Entomb

Legendary Creatures
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur

Sorceries
4 Careful Study
1 Crippling Fatigue
1 Deep Analysis
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Ponder
4 Reanimate
4 Thoughtseize

Basic Lands
3 Island
3 Swamp

Lands
1 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard:

1 Bloodghast
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Shriekmaw
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Coffin Purge
2 Ghastly Demise

I am liking this list. Maybe because of his sideboard? He pro-actively discards instead of Counters and Snapcaster into Kozilek and Thoughtseize seems really strong. Force of Will is card disadvantage and Daze is Tempo disadvantage. He also has Entomb Silver Bullets in the form of Darkblast, Deep Analysis, Crippling Fatigue and Bloodghast which is cool.

Jblaze4lif
09-27-2012, 08:47 AM
This might be a fun transformational sideboard :

2 City of Traitors
4 Show and Tell
1 Personal Tutor
2 Jace
2 Emrakul
4 Omniscience

Maindeck maximize on Ponder and ThoUghtseize. I know it pretty much turns Reanimator into a suboptimal Omni tell but it just looks like fun for casual type tournaments.

Thoughts?

lostgenius
10-14-2012, 08:02 PM
Ok, so I will be going to the Star City Open in New Orleans on the 28th of October. I've been working hard, and this is the deck I've come up with. So far it's done really well, but always room for improvement. I ask that you all devour this deck and let me know how it's looking


Creatures x8
2x Griselbrand
1x Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Angel of Despair
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria

Sorcery x20
3x Careful Study
4x Reanimate
3x Thoughtseize
4x Exhume
2x Inquisition of Kozelik
4x Ponder

Instant x13
4x Entomb
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
1x Intuition

Enchantment x1
1x Animate Dead

Land x18
4x Underground Sea
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Verdant Catacombs
3x Island
4x Swamp

Sideboard x15
4x Show and Tell
4x Omniscience
1x Inquisition of Kozelik
4x Preordain
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Tidespout Tyrant


My biggest problem is deciding on a sideboard. Since everyone and their mother carries graveyard hate this is what I've come up with.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated, thanks!

Also, I am thinking of including two Mind Sculptors in the sideboard, thoughts?

entreri_fans
10-15-2012, 12:37 AM
Hi,would only 4 Forces be inadequate as your counter magic? No Dazes? I think maybe you like SCM + Discard Package?

In my opinion, SCM + Discard helps a lot in the combo match up(and your deck seems to shift to the control style).

But you yourself will also be slowed down compared with the deck running 4 Force + 4 Daze.

So I think if you like to interact with your opponent,just run the "SCM+Discard"; if you want to go off fast and do what a combo do,please run some Dazes.

Johanovich
10-15-2012, 06:09 AM
Just won a small local tournament with my list:


Lands
3 Island
3 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire

Creatures
3 Griselbrand
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Angel of Despair
2 Hapless Researcher

Sorceries
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
3 Careful Study
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder

Instants
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm

Enchantments
2 Animate Dead

Sideboard
4 Show and Tell
2 Echoing Truth
2 Pithing Needle
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Massacre
2 City of Traitors
2 Perish


I went 4-0 against nic fit, affinity (teammate), bant and burn.
Went 2-0 against all but affinity where I went 2-1, but since I had the best matchups we wrote it down as 2-0.

R1 against nic fit:
He cabal therapied me T1 naming brainstorm, I don't have brainstorm but I do have entomb + reanimate for grisel so he doesn't get to do anything and we move on to game 2.

Game 2 I allow him to build a small board presence with double veteran explorer and a scavenging ooze, proceeding to wipe the board with perish and getting all my basics. I then play a hapless researcher and find a sphinx of the steel wind with brainstorm for my show and tell. I deduce that he is holding on to a innocent blood so I keep the hapless researcher on the field while I go for beatdown with sphinx. (he manages to get a thragtusk but to no avail).

R1 vs affinity:
Game 1 I start with swamp, counter his chalice on 1, end of turn entomb for elesh norn, my turn exhume and we move on to game 2.

Game 2 I get manascrewed with 2 swamp with elesh norn and show and tell sitting in my hand.

Game 3 I have double entomb, exhume + double land and fow. I force his turn 1 thorn of amethyst, but let his tormod's cryt resolve. I get a griselbrand in the grave, cast exhume, he removes my graveyard and I play entomb fetching an elesh norn and that's the game!

R3 vs bant:
Game 1 he mulls to 5 and I keep my opening 7. I bait some counters untill I get griselbrand. He topdecks a maze of ith but I draw 7 cards which includes entomb and animate dead for angel of despair to finish his maze (he had a qasali pridemage in play with 1 mana from the maze but it would have been destroyed anyway).

Game 2 I have inkwell + show and tell in hand + 3 mana and some other usefull spells. I bait some counters again (one force removing a clique!). He gets 2 meddling mages into play which he places on griselbrand (I let it resolve before he realizes his mistake) and reanimate. I show and tell inkwell but have to keep him home after 1 attack for a few turns to block knight and one of his meddling mages. After that I resolve some other fattie and win from there on 2 life.

R4 vs burn
Game 1 I start on the play, careful study iona and exhume her on the next turn, even dazing his lightning bolt he played in respons (win vs burn on 20 life!).

Game 2 he bluffed really good getting me to think he has some form of gravehate in his hands. I had study + exhume in hand but also a blazing archon and show and tell. I didn't dare go for the full out graveyard strategy so I played lands to go for show and tell. He plays pyrostatic pillar which causes me some damage due to me braintorming and pondering, but with him topdecking a few lands and with a archon in play to prevent me taking damage from his lonely goblin guide this game also ends fairly quickly.

Only thing I might change is the 2 massacre in the board. These might become discard to combat combodecks if hatebears continues to decline in numbers.

Props:
-Having the right creature or entomb when needed
-having my 4th show and tell which really did some work today
-Winning and getting 5 return to ravnice boosters
-Fun people to play against

Slops:
-not getting a single shockdual out of the boosters (or anything remotely useful for that matter)
-getting paired against my teammate again like last time
-getting manascrewed

TheXile
10-17-2012, 04:50 PM
I'm glad this is getting moved back to the Decks to Beat section, but I'm honestly not sure if it's tier 1 anymore. While being able to Entomb for your creature of choice makes this deck really nasty....the massive amount of graveyard hate (some we can do nothing about) has kept me from playing Re-Animator for awhile now. The printing of Rest in Pieces, while only relevant against Death and Taxes/Maverick currently does give people yet another hoser for this deck. Relying on 4x Show and Tells to beat all the hate isn't that viable of a strategy, especially since Show and Tell doesn't play that well with Entomb/Reanimate/Exhume/Animate Dead. It also sucks that with the exception of the Angel of Despair/Tidespout Tyrant almost all of our threats get hosed by Karakas too. I feel this deck is much better after it's been forgotten for awhile.

entreri_fans
10-18-2012, 05:56 AM
ok,so in order to beat some random hates like Rest in Peace / Leyline of the Void,

do you think it's ok to splash white(Only in the Sideboard) for Serenity?

Maybe a Sideboard like this:

1 Tundra
1 Srcubland
4 Pithing Needle(vs Karakas,Crypt,Ooze,Relic...)
4 Serenity(vs R.I.P,Leyline,Cage,Chalice,Humility...)
5 other cards

I just don't like the show and tell plan and want to directly defeat their grave-hates+_+~

Tinefol
10-18-2012, 08:42 AM
There's no reliable way to beat gravehate postboard, no matter what antihate you run. There's too many of it, and its too different. I guess the best shot you have here is to run a total conversion SNT/Omniscience sideboard (siding out most of your graveyard stuff) and adjusting maindeck accordingly. Overcomes both Karakas and gravehate. I'm yet to explore this option though, but I have a feeling that's bound to work better.

Bright Light Bringer
10-18-2012, 09:49 PM
People think running a couple of Karakas or sol lands is horrible because we can't tutor for them. What do we have that maverick doesn't? 11+ cantrips that can be used to find bullets.

You also don't have time nor means to consistently defend yourself while praying that some stupid and worthless 2 pieces of cards come in the first few turns by pondering for 3 cards in a pile of 50+, hoping that you'll get it before you get facerolled by Thalia, KOTR, ooze and any hate they bring on on a deck that runs GSZ. That's what you don't have, but good luck on that plan, as if it wasn't hard enough to get show and tell and the useful creature you need already. There's a big difference in pondering and actually tutoring for something, no mater what you say. Also, enjoy that Wasteland.

@entreri_fans -

This isn't a SaT deck. If we need to rely on that for everything post g1, then we would be better playing a SaT deck already. This is a reanimation deck and we don't need this strategy. We should respond to hate based on what we can expect, thus experience is needed for this deck so you can make wise choices post g1. This is the main problem for those who haven't played enough to figure it out, so they basically freak out and go the SaT route.

Edit: I thought Serenity was rather interesting until I remembered it destroys itself, so I'm not really sure about that. Also, it limits your use of Needles and Totems, so Pox gets the advantage and you'd have to rely on massacre/perish for maverick, considering ooze hits play. But anyway, my sideboard as of now consists of the following, just for the record:

3x Echoing Truth
3x Pithing Needle
2x Cursed Totem
1x Massacre
1x Duress
2x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Sheoldred
1x Sigarda

Sheoldred is awesome for the mirror and for SaT decks, so these matches are usually very easy since I also run 1 archon maindeck. Sigarda is a metacall for Pox lovers, which works like a charm. I'm feeling pretty confident with my sideboard and there isn't a single time I miss having SaT, the useless sol lands or Jace as proposed by some guys with 35 lands and the rest of blockers in their reanimator decks.

Before, as of last year and the begining of this, people used to understand SaT was only used if you were sure the hate would be coming from all the sides plus if it was a match where you would have time to hand sculpt, or if you had no clue as to what you should side in for g2, so you'd use that match up to find out what you could use to fight specific pieces of hate in G3, in case you lost. With the current sideboard plan being this blind, predictable and as simple as playing Burn, you're bound to lose a considerable amount of games just because you won't be able to find this card that happens to be your only salvation. And if you play with the same group as many people do, you can kiss your deck goodbye once they start buying drakes.

There is a reason SaT based decks run wishes + cantrips + intuition + a fast and large manapool. There is also a reason everyone say this deck needs to do something until turn 3 or 4 at best. Sometimes it's just hard to find your combo pieces before you get killed, even though you keep cantripping for them, let alone find SaT (that you just cannot let it get discarded/countered, while even Daze will probably get it down) + useful creature + mana to cast it. It's just ridiculous, broken and presents no valid reason that sustains the idea of playing this deck over any other true SaT deck other than style issues. You can't just stand still and keep cantripping for a car this slow and all of it's requirements against aggro decks for example. Even a goblin deck with a graffdigger's cage would wreck you to pieces before you could say "Show and Tell".

There is also a reason as to why Reanimator has fallen to oblivion, even though it has Griselband to it's favor and a metagame that hasn't developed against it. In fact, the overall meta has changed in favor of Reanimator: Sneak Attack and decks alike see much more play now, and they tend to be favorable matches to us. The reason for this heavy fall is the popularity of the broken lists that add up to a clunky deck that doesn't know what it's doing anymore and that-player-kind that is constantly looking for some "invincible" deck to boast about. You may also have noticed some of the well known people and posters who used to somewhat lead the direction of this deck have left any kind of discussion revolving it. Reanimator is fine as a deck per se, but some people have turned it into a joke that everyone fell for. Also, Dredge has been pulling much better results than Reanimator for the last months, despite it being much more limited as to dealing with hate. That is because they still understand what their deck is all about and don't deviate from this purpose, instead they choose to improve it and the results are there to prove it right. This deck needs to go back to what it used to be and those who are dragging it down by convincing clueless and inexperienced players that these new broken lists work should rethink their ways, after all the championship results speak for themselves. Long story short, if you're going to include Show and Tell to your sideboard, use it like it was meant to be. For reference, you can try reading morningstar's posts and "guides" in the reanimator thread at mtgsalvation, since this one is way too big.

Edit - Oh, I also forgot to say one thing: Good luck against SaT decks when you see yourself doing their job for them by putting their griselbrands, emrakuls or omnisciences on the table because you couldn't answer that stupid cage and because SaT is just that good of a deal-with-'em-all card. Congratulations on transforming this supposed-to-be-easy match into a nightmare :tongue:.

Dzra
10-19-2012, 04:59 AM
Dredge has been pulling much better results than Reanimator for the last months, despite it being much more limited as to dealing with hate. That is because they still understand what their deck is all about and don't deviate from this purpose, instead they choose to improve it and the results are there to prove it right.

The reason Dredge is doing better than Reanimator is because it is faster and the hate required to stop it is much narrower. Unfortunately Griselz wasn't enough to resurrect Reanimator and it looks like without something to fill Mystical Tutor's shoes, Reanimator is going to stay "tier 1.5". The last Reanimator list to top 16 at least addresses the issue of speed by adding Lotus Petals (although I can't think of why that would be preferable to Dark Ritual).

Reanimator has to deal with three different types of problem cards: counters, removal (Karakas and Jace are effectively removal), and GY hate. While counters and removal will slow Dredge down sometimes, GY hate is the only thing that will really stop them and it is usually only available from the SB. Dredge decks nowadays have adopted a slow roll plan of boarding into more Ichorids and Bloodghasts to limit the affect of 1-shot GY hate like Tormod's Crypt and (to a somewhat lesser extent) Surgical.

Reanimator, on the other hand, has to deal with problematic cards that everyone is running in their MD. Look at a top 16 and count the number of decks that are White, Black, and/or Blue. That is the number of decks with MD hate for Reanimator. Add into the mix that everyone also has GY hate to bring in from the SB and Reanimator is looking like a real dog.

thefreakaccident
10-19-2012, 05:31 AM
The only line of play that petal opens up for this deck that it doesn't have without it is:
land-> petal-> careful study-> reanimate... But i don't think it is worth it. I would much rather have hand disruption/countermagic over acceleration in this deck any day of the week.

Bright Light Bringer
10-19-2012, 04:32 PM
The reason Dredge is doing better than Reanimator is because it is faster and the hate required to stop it is much narrower. Unfortunately Griselz wasn't enough to resurrect Reanimator and it looks like without something to fill Mystical Tutor's shoes, Reanimator is going to stay "tier 1.5". The last Reanimator list to top 16 at least addresses the issue of speed by adding Lotus Petals (although I can't think of why that would be preferable to Dark Ritual).

Reanimator has to deal with three different types of problem cards: counters, removal (Karakas and Jace are effectively removal), and GY hate. While counters and removal will slow Dredge down sometimes, GY hate is the only thing that will really stop them and it is usually only available from the SB. Dredge decks nowadays have adopted a slow roll plan of boarding into more Ichorids and Bloodghasts to limit the affect of 1-shot GY hate like Tormod's Crypt and (to a somewhat lesser extent) Surgical.

Reanimator, on the other hand, has to deal with problematic cards that everyone is running in their MD. Look at a top 16 and count the number of decks that are White, Black, and/or Blue. That is the number of decks with MD hate for Reanimator. Add into the mix that everyone also has GY hate to bring in from the SB and Reanimator is looking like a real dog.

Dredge is fast, but it has no counters and they need to keep slowly drawing one card at a time using their combo resources (which sometimes can't be used at all, i.e. Breakthrough) to reach out for that piece of anti-hate they absolutely need before doing anything worthwhile, and it may as well be countered since dredge doesn't have answers to that. You won't do anything worthwhile with one or two creatures that are used as fodder for spell casting. And you're probably going to lose that fodder once they hit you with hate, meaning you're basically back to turn 1 except you have less resources now. Dredge is fast, but a 1cc cage is faster and shuts you down for good. I spent some time playing this deck because I just love the graveyard concept but I always felt smothered post g1 no matter what I did. Also, some decks can just kill their creatures or even block your fodder and there goes your bridges. It is way moroe vulnerable than Reanimator in my opinion, yet they still manage to pull out good results, for the reason I stated before IMO (experience and dedication to improving the deck's concept).

Btw, I wouldn't look up to the cards you listed as hate, but mere usual mtg cards that you see in every deck, including this one. This creates the idea we are vulnerable to that as if we didn't have any counters as well or even discard spells (4 thoughtseizes in my case, 1 duress in the SB), and it is well known g1 is favorable to Reanimator in most cases. Our hate is only gy hate, in my opinion.

Dzra
10-20-2012, 03:18 AM
This creates the idea we are vulnerable to that as if we didn't have any counters as well or even discard spells (4 thoughtseizes in my case, 1 duress in the SB), and it is well known g1 is favorable to Reanimator in most cases. Our hate is only gy hate, in my opinion.

It's not that this deck is vulnerable to these type of spells in particular. It's that because this deck has to cast spells and uses creatures to win, it has most answers firing on all cylinders. Meaning, if I am playing against Reanimator, my counters are always live, my removal is almost always live, and any GY hate is of course live.

If I'm a UWx deck and I'm playing against Show and Tell, my W-based removal is almost totally dead. If I'm playing against Maverick, my counters are pretty bad. If I'm playing against Reanimator, all of a sudden everything is live.

If I'm Maverick playing against Show and Tell, I need some combination of mana-screw + clock (Thalia/Wasteland into a beefy KotR) because my Swords are nearly dead and if they go off, I can't do much to stop them. Against Reanimator, I can deal with you pre-combo on multiple levels (Thalia/Wasteland or Ooze) and post-combo I can deal with your threats with Swords or Karakas or by simply having a better race.

etc. etc. Yes, Reanimator has much more protection than most combo decks, but this just means that it is favored against the other combo decks. Unfortunately, Reanimator has pretty embarrassing MUs against the fair decks. It's just a flaw of Reanimator's game plan that it uses so many zones to complete its combo and if stopped in any zone (Hand, GY, Stack, Battlefield) then the combo fails. Back with Mystical Tutor, Reanimator could overcome this with sheer speed and consistency. Nowadays, the fairest deck around: Maverick can fairly easily drop a t2 uncounterable KotR and be ready to bounce your fatty with a Karakas on t3. Unless you drew one of your 4 Entombs or your 0-1 of non-Legendary creature, that is just game.

Alsan
10-23-2012, 04:32 PM
Or "how to lose your time reading posts". Thanks, but we want to read to get info, not to get discouraged to play this deck. Obviously we have to deal with so many threats, but this is right now the most powered combo deck on Legacy. Yes, you can fight the deck at some levels, but if you don't get the cards in the right order, you are dead. Against Reanimator, all decks play like they were also combo decks, but with a higher % of failure to "combo off".

As a weird example, you are on the draw and you have Gsz, Thalia, 2 Fetchlands, Mother of runes, STP and Sylvan library. You don't know what are you playing against, and you keep that hand. Everybody will. Well, you are almost dead, you can't combo off. And this is only 1 of the million of examples what this deck can do against good hands but missinformed players.

Sorry everybody for the offtopic. To keep this alive, this is the deck I've used to win in Ovino '12, last month, here in Europe (445 players, split the finals):

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9191&iddeck=67185

The report is in Spanish.

Bright Light Bringer
10-25-2012, 12:40 AM
Or "how to lose your time reading posts". Thanks, but we want to read to get info, not to get discouraged to play this deck. Obviously we have to deal with so many threats, but this is right now the most powered combo deck on Legacy. Yes, you can fight the deck at some levels, but if you don't get the cards in the right order, you are dead. Against Reanimator, all decks play like they were also combo decks, but with a higher % of failure to "combo off".

As a weird example, you are on the draw and you have Gsz, Thalia, 2 Fetchlands, Mother of runes, STP and Sylvan library. You don't know what are you playing against, and you keep that hand. Everybody will. Well, you are almost dead, you can't combo off. And this is only 1 of the million of examples what this deck can do against good hands but missinformed players.

Sorry everybody for the offtopic. To keep this alive, this is the deck I've used to win in Ovino '12, last month, here in Europe (445 players, split the finals):

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9191&iddeck=67185

The report is in Spanish.

That's an amazing accomplishment you got there, congratulations. Now I'd like you to shed some light onto some of your choices:

- Why the singleton hapless researcher maindeck instead of, say, the third thoughtseize?

- Why do you have 2 thoughtseizes MD and 2 duress in the SB instead of replacing them with seizes, just so you could fight hate more effectively while still increasing disruption, especially since you don't have needles to aid against faerie macabre?

- How often do you get manascrewed due to having 2 karakas MD and how often are they useful? Can you say they help you more than they mess your starting hand up?

- How useful is engineered explosives for you? I have already considered them so I could fight multiple artifact hate, while still taking down some possible extra 1cc opponent's permanents, but I ended up going for Hurkyl's Recall since there may be a 1cc artifact hate plus a 0cc crypt on the field and my strategy would fall apart, plus it makes the possible affinity matches that much easier.

dameus
10-25-2012, 01:05 AM
Or "how to lose your time reading posts". Thanks, but we want to read to get info, not to get discouraged to play this deck.
... this is the deck I've used to win in Ovino '12, last month, here in Europe (445 players, split the finals):


Ha! Love this post! Congratulations Alsan!
That's a great combo of optimism and results to back it up.

Alsan
10-25-2012, 07:54 AM
That's an amazing accomplishment you got there, congratulations. Now I'd like you to shed some light onto some of your choices:

- Why the singleton hapless researcher maindeck instead of, say, the third thoughtseize?

- Why do you have 2 thoughtseizes MD and 2 duress in the SB instead of replacing them with seizes, just so you could fight hate more effectively while still increasing disruption, especially since you don't have needles to aid against faerie macabre?

- How often do you get manascrewed due to having 2 karakas MD and how often are they useful? Can you say they help you more than they mess your starting hand up?

- How useful is engineered explosives for you? I have already considered them so I could fight multiple artifact hate, while still taking down some possible extra 1cc opponent's permanents, but I ended up going for Hurkyl's Recall since there may be a 1cc artifact hate plus a 0cc crypt on the field and my strategy would fall apart, plus it makes the possible affinity matches that much easier.

Thanks to both of you :).

- I've been testing the 3rd Tseize, the 4th ponder, and the 5th careful (hapless, indeed), and finally I'm ok with the hapless. Mmmm... 30-40 pages ago I wrote tellig why I prefer hapless > other cards, and I'm still on it. It's blue, avoids sac effects, blocks, diggs, and it's a careful study more focused at instant speed, for the Exhume trick of avoid graveyard hate. I always side out 2 careful study, so, with hapless, I have 3 to keep the gameplan in G3.

- My friends would say "he plays duress > seizes 'cause he don't have the seizes foil jap yet", haha, but the fact is: in G2, when I bring in the extra discard, I always hit an spell. REB, Surgical, Fow, Snare, Spierce, Fluster, Stp, Humility, O-ring or any part of the combo pieces of ANT, Omnitell or Reanimator. If he's relying on creatures as Ooze or Gilded drake, the Submerge deals with them. If is a player who is playing 1 faerie macabre, I ignore it or Show the creature. If plays 4 faerie macabres (Sadly for him), I only have to play around with the exhume trick or show or LOSE. No one plays faerie macabre at competitive level, Surgical + Snapcaster is more powerful.

- Yes. I don't get screwed due the karakas 'cause for me they are spells, not lands. In the test time, I used an italian and an english karakas to know when I was drawing the Karakas that replace the island and when was the karakas that replace the Exhume. In 100 times (really, I test so hard), 23 times was the Island, 69 was the Exhume, and the rest didn't appear or didn't had relevance. In the island times, 16 I had more lands, 4 I was with Fow + Entomb + CMC2 reanimation spell + swamp, and 3 was mana screwed. So, 97 of 100 is a good number. The karakas is a win in mirror, against Omnitell helps, agains sneak is a win more card, against Blade avoids the "oh, I'm dead 'cause I'm out of counterspells BUT I have topdecked the karakas and now I can deal with griselbrand once in a turn", and against GW zenith trumps the plan of "turn 2 KotR" or "show? ok, KotR", and bounces THALIA. This is very VERY important.

- EE is the BEST card ever printed for the SB of the deck. When you are facing RUG, he has: Delver + Tormods, Nimble mongoose + Cage, Delver unflipped + Goose, etc. RUG dies to this card. GW zenith also dies to this card. RIP + Thalia + Ooze and EE for 2 to destroy them. Against zoo buys time, against AFF it makes 2-3-4 x 1 all times, but is an easy matchup. It hits LOA + Master of pearl trident + Coralhelm at time, or Aether vial + Cursecatcher + Cage. But when EE shines is against Miracles. Hits counterbalance or Cage or relic OR the angel tokens OR... hits everything. And 1 of every 50 times you can hit KoTR with karakas in play, with EE of 3 xD. With numbers: I played in Ovino against UWb Blade, Zoo, UWr miracles, Tezzeret control, Esper wizards, RG Goblins, UW tempo, RUG delver, RUG delver, RG Goblins, UR Goblins and Ad nauseam, and in ALL games I boarded in the EE.

Thanks for reading and sharing opinions :).

csy
10-25-2012, 02:36 PM
ever since abrupt decay came out I've been thinking about a way to splash green, and I thought Id bring this to the communities table.

decay has obvious positives for the deck. it can release us from CB/top lock. (so could needle) it could release us from needle, it could force any grave hate shy of leyline to die, or go off. It can take out almost every hate bear creature. It is unfreaking counterable. Green in general gives other utilities.

Life from the loam. A card that helps us get back from wasteland, get our karakas back (if thats still there) and the kicker, DREDGE! an additional way to get cards into our graveyards.

so here is my current BUg reanimator build.
fatz [7]
1 Angel of Despair
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 elesh norn
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Griselbrand
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur

Instants [15]
4 Force of Will
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb

Sorceries [1]
3 Thoughtseize
3 inquisition of kozilek
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
1 life from the loam
2 Ponder

Enchantments [3]
3 Animate dead

Lands [18]
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea

Sideboard
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Iona
2 Jace, the mind sculptor
2 City of Traitors
2 Spellpierce
3 Show and Tell
3 Engineered Explosives



its rough.. rip it apart, help it grow.

Koby
10-25-2012, 02:54 PM
Bounce is on color and and achieves the same purpose (outside of CB/top). Between discard and bounce, why would you want more exposure to the manabase in order to splash maindeck removal?

csy
10-25-2012, 03:22 PM
because bounce never felt to me like it was truly getting rid of anything. And reanimator doesnt exist in a world with high game 1 win percentages anymore. I also think that Life from the loam provides safety in the mana base as well as dredgin. There are directions the deck could go with green that could be explored in my opinion and Abrupt decay is a powerful card that I dont think has found a good home yet. Also RIP coming back into play doesnt help anyone. Abrupt is literally, 'ok we're done with that thing now move on'

mated with my proposed extra discard in the deck to stem the need of Daze I think the build has a good starting place.

Bright Light Bringer
10-26-2012, 02:06 PM
And reanimator doesnt exist in a world with high game 1 win percentages anymore.

Why do you say that? It's not like RIP is warping the format or something like that. Reanimator still holds it's high game 1 win ratio and if you're not achieving that, then you're doing something wrong probably.

Also, Dredge i'snt something that works well with this deck. We have enough cantripping + enablers (4 entomb, 4 careful studies and emergency thoughtseizes if need be) to get there and we can't really afford to risk throwing to the GY our precious FoWs that Griselbrand would want to draw with it's ability, in order to protect itself and finish the game. This deck doesn't have any issues regarding mana either, in fact it is one of the easiest decks out there on the manabase, and if you're getting manascrewed due to wasteland, that's due to your missplays. Your fetches, especially your deltas, are there for another reason other than picking up seas, thus rendering wasteland a literal waste. When facing wasteland you play around it, not directly against it. It's also not worth it to include life from loam and take out something actually useful just because you may have lost one of your karakas, which is a card with a very narrow use already and one of it's major applications is dealing with another karakas, so if this end has been achieved, the graveyard is where it can gladly stay. And anyway, by trying to protect your manabase, you're splashing another color and making the deck that much more susceptible to wasteland. You're not achieving anything great really by enforcing this contradiction. The fact you have a singleton Loam also means you're probably going to waste one of your entombs to find it, because you can't rely on cantripping to find a 1-of card in your deck. That entomb would be much better used somewhere else.

As for bounce, you do it when you need to, as in the opponent's EOT. You don't actually need to permanently get rid of rest in peace or something else with a single spell, and if you're reanimating Griselbrand - which is probably what you're doing most of the time - you can draw yourself plenty of disruption and/or counters to deal with it as soon as it tries to get back into play or even in your turn by discarding it. And if you're bringing cards such as Iona for example, that is just game. Abrupt Decay, while having a broader application than, say, Echoing Truth, is not really necessary if you time your actions right and it also doesn't deal with Leyline of the Void for example, or any permanent with multiples on the field. It's not like we haven't seen this kind of g1 hate anyway, after all, maverick is stilll out there in great numbers and you can simply outplay these decks by knowing which hands to keep and when to act. I'm not saying it's easy or anything, but it is very far from unachievable.

into_play
11-04-2012, 04:22 AM
Alsan, congratulations on your recent success with your deck that you have honed and polished for ages! I enjoyed reading your report and have found much insight in your play experiences and deck choices. I too have played Reanimator for years and had a couple of questions:

1. Could you give some specifics on what you side out for different match ups, especially the common match ups that you listed in your report? Against nearly all of the expected archetypes, you said you added about 8-10 cards from the sideboard, so I wonder what you remove without diluting the deck's consistency too much.

2. With two of your seventeen lands being Karakas, do you ever find that 15 colored sources are too few? I have jumped between 16-17 colored lands (4 basics, 4 Underground Seas and 8-9 fetches), and going to 15 blue/black sources seems like it could be cutting it too close for getting the right combinations of colors early game. On that note of mana sources, do you ever side out Karakas or does it always stay in to at least pay for colorless mana?

3. How has Empyrial Archangel worked for you? I always keep a shroud/hexproof creature within my 75 (mostly in fear of the unfortunate times when a Jace hits the table), but the damage redirection of the angel has at times been a hindrance rather than a benefit for me. Dealing 8 damage within a single turn is not the most difficult thing to do for several decks, so I prefer Inkwell Leviathan to fill that role for me. When a pure beatstick is needed to push through damage, Inkwell seems less vulnerable.

4. Do you ever miss Pithing Needle in the sideboard? I know you mentioned in the report that the needle is fine when dealing with Sneak Attack. I used to be of the opinion that at least two should be in the sideboard for their sheer versatility against hate, but between running Karakas mainboard and Submerge out of the side to deal with Scavening Ooze and Knight of the Reliquary, perhaps they are not necessary anymore. It is still a simple solution to the aforementioned cards, as well as graveyard hating artifacts like Crypt and Relic.

Congrats again on your victory through resurrection of giant animals! The deck is surprisingly resilient through hate compared to other combo decks and can overcome most obstacles with enough patience and know-how!

Alsan
11-05-2012, 09:32 AM
Thank you man :D. It's been a while since Ovino, but yesterday I played my local and monthly big Legacy tournament with the same 75 cards, ending 3rd 'cause the Omnitell of the semifinals casted 3 Fows in the 12 first cards, countering my Tseize, my Reanimate, and my Fow showing me out with burning wish in front of Blazing archon, damn xD.

Usually I Sb out 2 Careful, 3 Reanimation spells, 2-3 Daze, 1-2 Creatures. So, imagine:

Esper blade: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume (don't want Vendilion Clique back), -3 daze, -1 Sphinx, -1 Archon, +2 Duress, +3 Show, +2 EE, +1 Echoing, +1 Iona, +1 Angel of despair.
Zoo: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 JinG, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 EE, +3 Submerge
UWr Miracles: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 Archon, -1 Sphinx, +1 Angel, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Echoing
UB Tezz: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 Archangel, -1 JinG, +1 Angel, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Echoing
Esper Wizards: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 Archon, -1 JinG, +1 Angel, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Fluster
RG Goblins: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 JinG, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Echoing
UW Tempo: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 JinG, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Fluster
RUG: -2 Careful, -3 Animate dead if stifle, exhume if not, -3 daze, -1 JinG, -1 Archangel, +1 Iona, +1 Angel, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Fluster
ANT: -2 Careful, -1 Animate dead, -1 Exhume, -1 Reanimate, -1 Archon, -1 Sphinx, -1 Daze (if cage), -1 Karakas (if cage), +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +1 Fluster, +2 EE (if cage)

I count the second karakas as a spell, so I'm playing 16 lands, and with one land I can keep (blue if ponder, black if entomb, that's a keep). Yesterday I mulliganed a hand with entomb x2, reanimate, animate, fluster, island and fow, on the play, 'cause I didn't have ponder, so...

I hated Archangel in the early reanimation games, 'cause it was useless against GW, but vs Blade is the best card, so, it stays for me. Keeping me alive of the snapcasters or the batterskull is enough.

If the metagame shifts to more and more miracle control, yes, Pithing will be back. The new art from RTR is awesome :D. But right now, no, I don't miss it at all. Pithing top or Jace is OP, but EE a counterbalance + RIP is better (I did yesterday and it's powerful. I won a match against miracles with 2 STP in hand, Counterbalance + RIP on table, and Jace landing eventually. EE is the best card)

Thanks again for reading :). Suggestions?

into_play
11-07-2012, 08:43 PM
Thank you for your response, that was all very useful. I see that your Engineered Explosives really are the MVP of the sideboard, so I'm very interested in trying them out.

As for suggestions, your list has obviously been refined to fit your playstyle. If I were to make any changes, I might cut the single Flusterstorm for a third Duress. I have played counterspells in the sideboard (namely Spell Pierce) and I have always preferred having more proactive answers in the form of discard. I feel that clearing the way with discard through an opponent's counterspells is better than holding back mana for counters when trying to reanimate or Show and Tell. Plus, it gets you a look at your opponent's hand, which could give you a clue as to what creature to Entomb. I see your Flusterstorm comes in whenever the Duresses do, so why not make your deck more redundant?

Do you find the Coffin Purge to be helpful? I'm not sure if using an Entomb is worth it in order to remove one card from another Reanimator player's graveyard. I try to be cautious when playing the mirror match and rely a lot on my discard spells to make sure the coast is clear. I might be inclined to switch out the Coffin Purge for another Echoing Truth, or possibly a Pithing Needle (since it has always been useful to me).

I have considered adding a Terastodon to the sideboard. While it's not the best creature in any particular matchup I can think of, it is almost always useful as a target to draw into. At the very least, it can replace a poor creature choice for games 2 and 3. It also has the potential to completely bust games open in your favor (destroying a mana-screwed opponent's lands, giving you 2-3 extra blockers against aggro, etc.).

TheXile
11-13-2012, 02:28 PM
ever since abrupt decay came out I've been thinking about a way to splash green, and I thought Id bring this to the communities table.

decay has obvious positives for the deck. it can release us from CB/top lock. (so could needle) it could release us from needle, it could force any grave hate shy of leyline to die, or go off. It can take out almost every hate bear creature. It is unfreaking counterable. Green in general gives other utilities.

Life from the loam. A card that helps us get back from wasteland, get our karakas back (if thats still there) and the kicker, DREDGE! an additional way to get cards into our graveyards.

so here is my current BUg reanimator build.
fatz [7]
1 Angel of Despair
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 elesh norn
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Griselbrand
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur

Instants [15]
4 Force of Will
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb

Sorceries [1]
3 Thoughtseize
3 inquisition of kozilek
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
1 life from the loam
2 Ponder

Enchantments [3]
3 Animate dead

Lands [18]
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea

Sideboard
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Iona
2 Jace, the mind sculptor
2 City of Traitors
2 Spellpierce
3 Show and Tell
3 Engineered Explosives



its rough.. rip it apart, help it grow.

I like the idea of branching out (I loved my reanimator deck..until my local meta over-hated it out). Some glaring issues I see;
14x Blue cards (I didn't count the creatures...if you do you're at 18) which means in you're starting hand you might have 2, thus you're count is too low for the usual "re-animate with counterbackup plan". The real threat of reanimator was getting out a very powerful threat stupidly fast...but it seems you're sacrificing speed to help with answers for longer/midrange game. But that's fundamentally the problem with the list I see...you're going directly against the point of the Reanimation Strategy..if you're going to re-animate on turn 4/5/6..you allow your opponent the time needed to setup/stop you (for example...against Maverick..if they land KoTR..you're creature base is reduced to 3..and once they hit 4 mana..they have essentially 8 copies). I like the IoK maindeck (I ran a 3:1 split with Thoughtsieze as the life loss with a heavier Griselbrand strategy is more relevant). I am also very confused as to why you have a partial Delver SB plan and a partial Show and Tell plan...Typically Re-animator goes for the Show and Tell plan to blank the GY hate your opponent brings in..or the Delver plan to add more threats/throw your opponent off, unfortunately, as is the case with most transformational sideboard plans..they take up a LOT of space, while I do think the "melding" idea is cool I don't see it working out so well. Also, it may be that I haven't faced anyone with RIP yet, but what I'm seeing now is that Tormod's crypt/Purify the Grave are the "go to hate" for the graveyard...and abrupt does a pretty poor job (or no job against purify) as fighting the hate.

lavafrogg
11-16-2012, 10:47 PM
As an outsider looking in, why don't reanimator decks play burning wish and UBr?

evomagic
11-20-2012, 07:36 PM
for two reasons :

-reanimator decks have already several reanimation spells, and they are already 10. cutting them for burning wish will make the deck slower, and less efficient. Moreover, Show uses it only to have potentially 8 Snt in the deck.
-we have to fight against GY hate and creatures one (coz we don't kill in one turn), so the side can't be completely optimised for BW.

but this is just a subsudiar question to the real one: when will Mystical tutor be unbanned? :laugh:

hoongyunn
11-21-2012, 09:23 AM
but this is just a subsudiar question to the real one: when will Mystical tutor be unbanned? :laugh:

Second that! :P

Ricardio
11-21-2012, 11:30 AM
Whats goin on guys?
been away from my baby, reanimator, too long but I do enjoy Spanish Inquisition.

ANYWAYS! I just got back from a 20 man legacy tourney with Reanimator
FIRST OFF, the list

FAT A$$es
2 Jin-G
2 Grizz
1 Empyrial
1 Despair
1 Iona
1 Sphinx
8
Reanimation Suite
4 exhume
4 reanimate
3 animate dead
19
The Business
4 Force
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
4 Entomb
4 Careful study
3 Daze
42
Lands
4 Underground
4 Polluted
2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Misty
3 Verdant
60

SB
4 SnT
2 Pithing
2 Echoing
2 Tormod's
2 Despair
1 Archon
1 Norn
1 Inkwell

The Report

Round 1
My buddy Dave who is a great magic player, much better than me, who I know is on Turbo Eldrazi
He states that its a good match-up for his deck and I tell him that he will win unless he misplays.
Game 1: I get out turn 3 Jin after stopping his crop rots and what not. he misplays a fetch and i get to capitalize.
Game 2: It was a blur but he said he misplayed a crucial action that i missed where he could have gotten karakas to bounce my Jin but he instead grabbed eye D:
GG Dave
1-0 (2-0)

Round 2
Daves roommate, Mike. Nice guy, dont know him very well but i heard him asking for thragtusks before the tourny so i guess Nic Fit
Game 1: He Lilly -2's my fatty and proceeds to get jace out and some other fatties so i scoop.
Game 2: I play and get jin out on curve to which he says he kept a shaky seven and we move onto game 3
Game 3: I knock him down to 2 with inkwell. He spends most of the game digging with fetchs and brainstorms. He gets out thragtusk and follows up the next turn with a top decked lilly to kill the inkwell. I top deck a SnT but he has the negate to seal the deal.
1-1 (3-2)

Round 3
D&T man, Afro Dave. He says that he knows im not on my usual deck bc my rounds have been lasting longer but he doesnt know what im playing.
Game 1: i win the roll and get out empyrial to stall for another fatty and he concedes.
Game 2: Iona naming white is pretty good.
2-1 (5-2)

Round 4
My buddy Justin. He picked up miracles about 2 or 3 weeks ago and he has come a long way from being the noob that picked up UW miracles.
I helped finish the list and i know his 75 and he kind of knows my 75. the big deal is he runs RIP miracles w energy field/helm, Caleb Durwards build.
Game 1: I win the roll and finagle a turn 4 despair through counter magic to destroy his karakas but he follows up with RIP so i swing 4 times and counter an energy field.
Game 2: he keeps a hand that he claims: "was the perfect land if i drew a land." and it would have been "fetch, RIP, energy field, top, cbalance and terminus" no lands, no dice.
GG Justin, i just get super lucky with this deck :D
3-1 (7-2)

Round 5
Seth, the teacher. He is 4-0 and says lets play and see what happens. final round and hes guaranteed in but idk him well enough to know if he is gonna give me the win.
He is on Walking Dead, the 4-color zombie bombardment brain child of Sam Black.
Game 1: I win the roll and get swept by 3 ghasts, 2 souls and a crawler.
Game 2: I land norn 3 times and after the 3rd she lasts more than a turn and i follow up w an archangel.
Game 3: I get jin out t2 but he kills it before combat. I top deck a reanimation spell to bring him back and draw the counter magic necesary to keep him down. Norn on the following turn seals the deal.
He then says he told me he conceded to me and that he and I are in top 4 no matter what. Seth is a nice guy :D
4-1 (9-3)

Top 4
They call this guy master of top decks. He is usually a maverick player but tonight he got together Bant.
Game 1: he wins the roll after we tie 5 times. I keep a hand with: fetch, sphinx, 2 reanimate, animate dead, exhume, entomb. I draw, discard sphinx and pass. t2 he dazes first reanimate. t3 he bounces sphinx. then i get beat down by douchey knight of ******ry.
Game 2: He gets greedy and GSZ twice on back to back turns for pridemages to destroy back to back animate deads only to get blown out by my top decked reanimate.
Game 3: I figure my hand is great and i have t1 entomb and t2 exhume for inkwell so i start trolling him. He gets a bit on tilt and i go to exhume inkwell on t2 so he digs w a brainstorm to which i take a dreadfully long pause and pass back priority to which he sighs and resolves the brainstorm. He attempts to force the exhume and i show him mine bc he showed me his. Inkwell gets there and i make finals.
5-1 (11-4)

Finals
New guy Nick playing the 'Folk. I ask him to split for 66 credit and he says yes i wanna go home.

Overall, I love this deck. Not once did i want a karakas in the 60 or the 75. Usually a heavy combo meta but tonight was very controlly and aggro'y.
This is one of the most consistent, streamline decks. DO NOT convolute it with frivolous extra colors. The sideboard needs some work but it was fine for tonight.
I love Iona but she maybe a better sideboard option. inkwell or archon or norn depending on the meta in place of her. I loved the extra despair but 1 is fine in the side. The crypts were fine against walking dead but i think relic could replace it fine. 18 lands is a good number but i would think about going down a fetch and up a ponder. The needles are often times to reactive so unless it hits something in that MU hard, dont bother.

Zilong
11-26-2012, 07:55 PM
Thank you man :D. It's been a while since Ovino, but yesterday I played my local and monthly big Legacy tournament with the same 75 cards, ending 3rd 'cause the Omnitell of the semifinals casted 3 Fows in the 12 first cards, countering my Tseize, my Reanimate, and my Fow showing me out with burning wish in front of Blazing archon, damn xD.

Usually I Sb out 2 Careful, 3 Reanimation spells, 2-3 Daze, 1-2 Creatures. So, imagine:

Esper blade: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume (don't want Vendilion Clique back), -3 daze, -1 Sphinx, -1 Archon, +2 Duress, +3 Show, +2 EE, +1 Echoing, +1 Iona, +1 Angel of despair.
Zoo: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 JinG, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 EE, +3 Submerge
UWr Miracles: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 Archon, -1 Sphinx, +1 Angel, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Echoing
UB Tezz: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 Archangel, -1 JinG, +1 Angel, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Echoing
Esper Wizards: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 Archon, -1 JinG, +1 Angel, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Fluster
RG Goblins: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 JinG, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Echoing
UW Tempo: -2 Careful, -3 Exhume, -3 daze, -1 JinG, +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Fluster
RUG: -2 Careful, -3 Animate dead if stifle, exhume if not, -3 daze, -1 JinG, -1 Archangel, +1 Iona, +1 Angel, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +2 EE, +1 Fluster
ANT: -2 Careful, -1 Animate dead, -1 Exhume, -1 Reanimate, -1 Archon, -1 Sphinx, -1 Daze (if cage), -1 Karakas (if cage), +1 Iona, +3 Show, +2 Duress, +1 Fluster, +2 EE (if cage)

I count the second karakas as a spell, so I'm playing 16 lands, and with one land I can keep (blue if ponder, black if entomb, that's a keep). Yesterday I mulliganed a hand with entomb x2, reanimate, animate, fluster, island and fow, on the play, 'cause I didn't have ponder, so...

I hated Archangel in the early reanimation games, 'cause it was useless against GW, but vs Blade is the best card, so, it stays for me. Keeping me alive of the snapcasters or the batterskull is enough.

If the metagame shifts to more and more miracle control, yes, Pithing will be back. The new art from RTR is awesome :D. But right now, no, I don't miss it at all. Pithing top or Jace is OP, but EE a counterbalance + RIP is better (I did yesterday and it's powerful. I won a match against miracles with 2 STP in hand, Counterbalance + RIP on table, and Jace landing eventually. EE is the best card)

Thanks again for reading :). Suggestions?



Thank u a lot Alex!

i'm a new player for reanimator and your side plan is very very useful for me!

i'm a chinese boy study in Toulouse France, when i play in the BOM6 Annecy (seem like i'm the only one chinese in BOM6 -. -), i use Maverick so i didn't know u then.

and if you will go to GP strasbourg 2013, i'm glad to see you then.

best regards

Zilong

phazonmutant
11-29-2012, 04:23 AM
Have any of you guys checked out "Next-Level" Reanimator (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23794-Griselbrand-Reanimator)? I've played both lists and it seems like NLR is better now that powerful monsters like Griselbrand and Emrakul exist (in addition to more hate) - Goryo's Vengeance and Shallow Grave accentuate their strengths better. Stifle does work too.

Has most of the success been with traditional reanimator?

Ricardio
11-29-2012, 09:34 AM
Next level? I beg to disagree. The most current reanimator is one of, if not the most, streamline combo decks in legacy.
Consistently turn 2 jin or griselbrand will win you most games if your opponent doesn't scoop em up right there.
The key is the pilot. Know the deck and know the hate. The rest is luck.
This is an amazing deck that doesn't need a gimmick or some superficial facelift.

phazonmutant
11-29-2012, 04:18 PM
Dude, I'm not trying to bash on you here - that's why I put "next-level" in quotes. That's just what some people in the other thread are calling their version to distinguish it from this one, once classic reanimator started playing Griselbrand.

I've top32d a SCG open with traditional Reanimator, so yes, I understand how the deck works. I've also won a couple local tournaments with the "Next-Level" version, and I think it's an interesting version to test. It's not a superficial facelift, it's playing into the strengths of the monsters. Traditional reanimator can struggle with a bunch of different hate, but I've personally found the NLR version to be able to play through it more easily, mostly because it gets to play at instant speed and Emrakul is insanely powerful.

Before just flaming other people, try looking at their ideas' merits. Try out the other deck on cockatrice or something.

Ricardio
11-30-2012, 11:39 AM
My apologies. I didn't mean to come off so douchey and I appreciate your patience.
I love this deck and I see it as one of the most fine-tuned, streamline decks. I am open to any and all ideas, believe me, but I did not feel the need for a definate third color.

phazonmutant
11-30-2012, 03:46 PM
No worries.
Third color? I guess I haven't really kept up with what people are posting, but the person who has the best handle on that version seems to be OrGy. His decklist (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23794-Griselbrand-Reanimator&p=679780&viewfull=1#post679780) is super solid. My list with Silence/Pull from Eternity is bad, and I dunno about the guy with the green splash on the last page, but I assume it's bad too.

I might quibble about the number Stifles maindeck (I loved its utility against common maindeck hate), but the list I linked is pretty streamlined and tested by him to some success in Europe.

nastirth
12-03-2012, 06:13 AM
Hey guys,

I was long time away from MTG, but since we had a GP in my country last weekend I had to go. On sunday I attended the legacy tournament, with the exact same list as Alsan but without the 2 karakas (+1 exhume, +1 island). It was the first time I had the opportunity to play with griselbrand and oh boy, it rocked so much, that most of the time i just boarded out jin. I used Alsan tips for sideboard, and I found that both the decklist and the sideboard strategy were very effective. I ended up 5-1 only loosing to goblins, to my own fault, because I kept forgotting that stupid land (i didn't knew of) that makes them play goblin dudes uncounterable. I played against UGB (2-0), Omniscience (2-0), Goblins (0-2), MonoW (2-1), RUG (2-1) and GB (2-0). I ended up 2nd place and got a nice revised underground sea and a bunch of boosters. MVP of the day was griselbrand! The most cool play was against omniscience dude, when in the 2nd game at his 2nd turn he show and tells his emrakul and i show angel of despair :laugh:
The only sideboard card i didn't use was submerge, but i didn't face any zoo either. Also didn't missed karakas, but then again i never fought against opposing karakas or mirror. Rounding up, it was lots of fun, and the deck is still in very good shape even facing lots of sb hate.

Zilong
12-03-2012, 02:55 PM
Hey guys,

I was long time away from MTG, but since we had a GP in my country last weekend I had to go. On sunday I attended the legacy tournament, with the exact same list as Alsan but without the 2 karakas (+1 exhume, +1 island). It was the first time I had the opportunity to play with griselbrand and oh boy, it rocked so much, that most of the time i just boarded out jin. I used Alsan tips for sideboard, and I found that both the decklist and the sideboard strategy were very effective. I ended up 5-1 only loosing to goblins, to my own fault, because I kept forgotting that stupid land (i didn't knew of) that makes them play goblin dudes uncounterable. I played against UGB (2-0), Omniscience (2-0), Goblins (0-2), MonoW (2-1), RUG (2-1) and GB (2-0). I ended up 2nd place and got a nice revised underground sea and a bunch of boosters. MVP of the day was griselbrand! The most cool play was against omniscience dude, when in the 2nd game at his 2nd turn he show and tells his emrakul and i show angel of despair :laugh:
The only sideboard card i didn't use was submerge, but i didn't face any zoo either. Also didn't missed karakas, but then again i never fought against opposing karakas or mirror. Rounding up, it was lots of fun, and the deck is still in very good shape even facing lots of sb hate.

GG for u, BTW that's cavern of souls.

almost same exprience with me, 3rd place / 39 pers and only lose against my friend Esper Blade in the demi-final, i have one karakas, the other is the same as his list, i try too understand and use the plan of Alex(Alsan) and it seems like very effective. I have also ponder a angel in the game 2 and win a Omniscien 2-0 too, got 4 UB fetch, not bad : )

Alsan
12-04-2012, 09:26 PM
:DDD

This is the best thing of the forums, the happiness of another player having fun with the decklist that has given yourself a lot of happiness. I'm very glad of hearing this :).

My last big tournament was last weekend at GP Lisbon, finishing 5-1, losing against a player who mulled5 in G3 to Leyline of void, liliana, dark ritual, land, topdecked pithing needle for griselbrand, had an Abyss to my show and tell, and this was the board situation:

Angel of despair with his "vindicate" effect on stack, in front of Abyss, Liliana, and Leyline of void. I looked at my hand, with hapless, reanimate and exhume, so I choosed the leyline, and landed the old-man-on-his-broken-stairs. He drew, killed with liliana the hapless, and I sac the angel to abyss. When in my precombat step I tried to reanimate the angel, he was suuuuuuuuurgical extracted xD, so I lost. I got a bunch of RtR boosters :). In the tournament I faced 3 times decks with 4 lilianas maindeck (!), Dragon Stompy, 4C Zoo, and Emrakul-post (I don't know if this deck has name, but plays show and tell, cloudpost-vesuva, and crop rotations). Today I've played a 8-man in my local store, facing Deathrite ale (2-0), RUG delver (2-0), and RUG Cascade (2-1).

I'll be playing the same decklist until Gatecrash, so if anyone comes to GP Bilbao and plays the side event on Sunday (I hope not to do so, but if I had to, I'll play it), search for me :D.

Johanovich
12-05-2012, 05:48 AM
:DDD

This is the best thing of the forums, the happiness of another player having fun with the decklist that has given yourself a lot of happiness. I'm very glad of hearing this :).

My last big tournament was last weekend at GP Lisbon, finishing 5-1, losing against a player who mulled5 in G3 to Leyline of void, liliana, dark ritual, land, topdecked pithing needle for griselbrand, had an Abyss to my show and tell, and this was the board situation:

Angel of despair with his "vindicate" effect on stack, in front of Abyss, Liliana, and Leyline of void. I looked at my hand, with hapless, reanimate and exhume, so I choosed the leyline, and landed the old-man-on-his-broken-stairs. He drew, killed with liliana the hapless, and I sac the angel to abyss. When in my precombat step I tried to reanimate the angel, he was suuuuuuuuurgical extracted xD, so I lost. I got a bunch of RtR boosters :). In the tournament I faced 3 times decks with 4 lilianas maindeck (!), Dragon Stompy, 4C Zoo, and Emrakul-post (I don't know if this deck has name, but plays show and tell, cloudpost-vesuva, and crop rotations). Today I've played a 8-man in my local store, facing Deathrite ale (2-0), RUG delver (2-0), and RUG Cascade (2-1).

I'll be playing the same decklist until Gatecrash, so if anyone comes to GP Bilbao and plays the side event on Sunday (I hope not to do so, but if I had to, I'll play it), search for me :D.

It's called turbo eldrazi:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24848-Deck-Turbo-Eldrazi

evomagic
12-05-2012, 09:10 AM
hi there reanimator players!

I just post there to discuss about the deck in the new metagame. Indeed, like me, you have certainly experienced that bug is now a DTB and that there is a new f*** threat for us called deathrite shaman. Moreover, depending on the type, we can also fight liliana, diabolict edict, ooze, and disruption main game.

And to be honest, i find it hard to beat the bug decks right now.

what's your point of view about it? should reanimator be played again?

rxavage
12-05-2012, 10:06 AM
hi there reanimator players!

I just post there to discuss about the deck in the new metagame. Indeed, like me, you have certainly experienced that bug is now a DTB and that there is a new f*** threat for us called deathrite shaman. Moreover, depending on the type, we can also fight liliana, diabolict edict, ooze, and disruption main game.

And to be honest, i find it hard to beat the bug decks right now.

what's your point of view about it? should reanimator be played again?


Even with the new hate I don't think it's too bad of a time to be playing Reanimator, neither dredge nor Reanimator are on anyone's radar so the amount of hate shouldn't be too bad. I'm also hoping gatecrash brings us some new tech, maybe dimir charm will be playable.

evomagic
12-05-2012, 10:12 AM
well, i agree that side hate is on the decline, but i still find that g1 is harder to win. i will maybe go back to dredge ^^

hmm dimir charm, why not!? but i see it like this: mill+disrupt+?

the good thing should be a card like decay which is uncounterable, and let us to reanimate (but we can still hoping for that)

wcm8
12-05-2012, 10:52 AM
With Abrupt Decay seeing a lot of play, I would cut Animate Deads in favor of more Exhumes and Reanimates.

To combat Deathrite Shamans and Scavenging Oozes, Deathmark or Dismember are reasonable options, as well as Submerge. Pithing Needle is versatile.

Griselbrand is great, but it's possible that going for a different first reanimation target may be a better idea. Grave Titan provides a buffer from Edict effects, and Inkwell Leviathan and Iona are tough for control decks to beat.

Playing Liliana of the Veil in the sideboard is also a reasonable choice since she doubles up as a method of killing creatures as well as being a discard outlet.

I think splashing green could have some merit. You gain access to Deathrite Shamans of your own, Abrupt Decay, Dryad Arbor (as a buffer from Edicts), and can also more reasonably play a transformative sideboard via playing Tarmogoyfs, Delvers, or go the control route and play Jaces, Lilianas, etc. This may be stronger than trying to answer opposing hate or skirt around it with Show and Tell. Most opponents in the sideboard games will mulligan into their hate, so having an alternative strategy may give the deck some resiliency.

If Reanimator isn't consistently winning game 1, I'm not sure it's worth playing until the meta 'forgets' about its existence and it's time to strike again.

Alsan
12-05-2012, 06:06 PM
Luckily for all of us, that's not true. Not consistently? What else..

Ricardio
12-06-2012, 11:48 AM
If the necessity for a 3 color, not splashed, is that large I would say it needs to take a break bc its either the pilots fault or an entire meta against it.

nastirth
12-10-2012, 10:35 AM
@Alsan: we must have played really close to each other. LoL! I also think I avenged your defeat, because in the last round I fought against a dutch player with those cards (a gb deck with lots of hate), that told me he had won against reanimator before in the tournament. Against me he was able to surgical an Iona, but lost with 3 abrupt decays in hand against my s&tell'd griselbrand :p
I'm not sure if i'm able to go to Bilbao, but if I do, i'll let you know!

@Forum: About the third color, I don't think its necessary. I've played reanimator for a couple of years now, and I always prefer the consistency of black/blue, even in times of great adversities (gp amsterdam was really all hate everywhere). I'm really happy with griselbrand and it's a lot easier now winning the first game, even against controll which allow us to draw 14 cards since they have no pressure. I think alsan's version is really fine tuned. I never tested karakas, but if it doesn't interfere with the mana base or the reanimation suite, it looks like a nice addition.

FuzzyLumpkins
12-10-2012, 08:33 PM
Looking for advice on my current layout.

Lands (18)
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 Island
3 Swamp

Creatues (10)
2 Hapless Researcher
2 Griselbrand
2 Jin Gitaxis, Core Augur
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Blazing Archon
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Spells (32)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Reanimate
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
3 Exhume
3 Ponder
2 Animate Dead

Sideboard (15)
4 Show and Tell
3 Flusterstorm
2 Wipe Away
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Angel of Despair
1 Inkwell Leviathon
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

Snap_Keep
12-11-2012, 12:54 AM
I think discard and countermagic together are important for fighting through opposing hate...

It seems like your list leans heavily on Force/Daze... I would play x3 Thoughtseize because it can deal with Jaces (bounce our dudes) and obviously countermagic/grave hate. In a pinch it can be used to discard one of your fatties.

I also have a question about reanimtor... It's a two parter. What do you guys think of a singleton Personal Tutor MD? It seems really strong with all the cantrips we play (takes up minimal deck space and easy to draw into) Do you guys think it's too slow though at sorcery speed while putting it on top of our library? It also opens us up to the occasional misers Thought Scour... but that seems like a sort of marginal flex spot in RUG... I more often see Life from the Loam or Dismember...

Has anyone had any success for Lim-Dul's Vault? It seems like if we resolve it we should win the next turn, again though, I wonder if it is simply too slow, even at instant speed in reanimtor? I dislike MWS/Cockatrice so much... Or else I would just test for myself haha

Asthereal
12-11-2012, 04:14 AM
Pro's and con's for Personal Tutor:
+ Cheap at the cost of U
+ Blue, good for U-count for FoW
+ Fetches up Reanimation spells
+ Fetches up discard outlets (Study)
+ Fetches up protection (Thoughtseize)
- Does not fetch up Entomb
- Does not find creatures (if the Study is in hand already)
- Sorcery speed, so easy to anticipate/disrupt

Seems a fine card, but the fact that you cannot find everything you need makes me like Ponder better.
Not that Ponder finds all you need every time, but at least Ponder is a great opening play no matter what.

Lim-Dul's Vault solves all of the problems I have with Personal Tutor, but it costs more mana.
It's worth a try though, since you usually win the turn after you EOT play it.

Alsan
12-11-2012, 08:37 AM
@Alsan: we must have played really close to each other. LoL! I also think I avenged your defeat, because in the last round I fought against a dutch player with those cards (a gb deck with lots of hate), that told me he had won against reanimator before in the tournament. Against me he was able to surgical an Iona, but lost with 3 abrupt decays in hand against my s&tell'd griselbrand :p
I'm not sure if i'm able to go to Bilbao, but if I do, i'll let you know!

Yes, we should! I asked that player at the end and he told me he had lost against reanimator, haha. "Thanks" for "avenging" me xD. I don't know if you remember the faces or the cards, but I was the guy with the full reanimator foil japanese in "Once you go black" Starcitygames sleeves :). If you go to Bilbao, let me know!

And sorry for the offtopic.

FuzzyLumpkins
12-11-2012, 10:29 AM
I think discard and countermagic together are important for fighting through opposing hate...

It seems like your list leans heavily on Force/Daze... I would play x3 Thoughtseize because it can deal with Jaces (bounce our dudes) and obviously countermagic/grave hate. In a pinch it can be used to discard one of your fatties.


What would i drop for the thoughtseize?

Bright Light Bringer
12-11-2012, 02:36 PM
Looking for advice on my current layout.

Lands (18)
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 Island
3 Swamp

Creatues (10)
2 Hapless Researcher
2 Griselbrand
2 Jin Gitaxis, Core Augur
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Blazing Archon
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Spells (32)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Reanimate
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
3 Exhume
3 Ponder
2 Animate Dead

Sideboard (15)
4 Show and Tell
3 Flusterstorm
2 Wipe Away
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Angel of Despair
1 Inkwell Leviathon
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

I really don't see the point of running 18 or even 17 lands on reanimator, especially when packing ponder. I'd cut 1 island and 1 swamp. It's been ages since I've been playing with 16 lands and I've come to the conclusion this is the right mana count, as you can play most of your deck with a single sea on the ground, so drawing mana is not something you really want to do here unless it's a fetch land to combo off with brainstorm. Also, Hapless Researcher is really outdated, I'd cut them too alongside 1 jin and exchange Elesh and the Sphinx places. Sphinx falls way too short on utility after Griselbrand has been printed and it's extremely vulnerable to removal/sac, so it's safe to move it to the sideboard unless your meta is swarming with goblins. Also, I think Iona is more of a sideboard card than a main one, I would also place it there while taking despair to the main board, since it's the only creature that truly deals with karakas, which Tidespout doesn't really do anything about, and actually does something as soon as it enters the field. Thoughtseize is a must have in this deck and it's nowhere in your 75, so stick to at least 3 mainboard and 1 in the SB by replacing Empyrial altogether. It is a key card from g1 to g3 because it's great to deal with hate such as surgical, artifacts/enchantments that haven't been casted yet, faerie macabre and the like, plus it deals with counters, so it's something that you can't just overlook. If you don't have them, then stick to duress if it has to be. Now, the remaining deck slot you can fill as you like, whereas the obvious choices are +1 animate dead or +1 ponder, maybe even +1 thoughtseize since it adds to protection + emergency consistency anyway.

As for your sideboard, Chains of Vapor is really a subpar card, you want Echoing Truth there and I'd only keep Wipe Away if UW miracles became a real threat in my meta as well. You may also notice that your deck is really vulnerable to karakas and planeswalkers, especially Liliana, since you're not packing Needles. So if Miracles is not a real thing in your meta, replace wipe away for needle and I'd also take out a singleton flusterstorm in it's favor, since you're supposedly already packing 4 seizes in your 75 anyway.

Those are pretty much all of the sugestions I can make so I hope it was of help. Good luck.

Edit:

You may also consider removing the sideboarded flusterstorms altogether. It's not a bad card per se but I just don't buy this idea of having counters in reanimator's sideboard. This deck will attempt to go off as soon as it can, so you won't really have a lot of mana up to keep casting counters unless they are free, especially if you're trying to cast SnT. Proactive protection in the form of discard is MUCH better, since it not only deals with counters earlier, but it gives you information and can possibly hit a hate card. Casting a discard spell has the benefit of always working, while a counter doesn't. If it gets countered, then it means your discard spell has basically dealt with a counter that would otherwise target your reanimation spell and, because your opponent couldn't afford to let it resolve, the obvious conclusion is that there is something precious in the opponent's hand, possibly being a surgical or an extirpate. Therefore, information always comes with targeted hand disruption, one way or another. Dealing with counters/hate cards preemptively will also help against Dazes and Pierces, since you can discard your opponent's cards this turn and try to reanimate in the next one with a higher success chance, in case he didn't draw anything "special" between your turns. So, unless your meta has a high storm presence, flusterstorm in the sideboard just isn't a thing to look for in my opinion. I'd switch those for Duress completely.

FuzzyLumpkins
12-11-2012, 03:21 PM
I really don't see the point of running 18 or even 17 lands on reanimator, especially when packing ponder. I'd cut 1 island and 1 swamp. It's been ages since I've been playing with 16 lands and I've come to the conclusion this is the right mana count, as you can play most of your deck with a single sea on the ground, so drawing mana is not something you really want to do here unless it's a fetch land to combo off with brainstorm. Also, Hapless Researcher is really outdated, I'd cut them too alongside 1 jin and exchange Elesh and the Sphinx places. Sphinx falls way too short on utility after Griselbrand has been printed and it's extremely vulnerable to removal/sac, so it's safe to move it to the sideboard unless your meta is swarming with goblins. Also, I think Iona is more of a sideboard card than a main one, I would also place it there while taking despair to the main board, since it's the only creature that truly deals with karakas, which Tidespout doesn't really do anything about, and actually does something as soon as it enters the field. Thoughtseize is a must have in this deck and it's nowhere in your 75, so stick to at least 3 mainboard and 1 in the SB by replacing Empyrial altogether. It is a key card from g1 to g3 because it's great to deal with hate such as surgical, artifacts/enchantments that haven't been casted yet, faerie macabre and the like, plus it deals with counters, so it's something that you can't just overlook. If you don't have them, then stick to duress if it has to be. Now, the remaining deck slot you can fill as you like, whereas the obvious choices are +1 animate dead or +1 ponder, maybe even +1 thoughtseize since it adds to protection + emergency consistency anyway.

As for your sideboard, Chains of Vapor is really a subpar card, you want Echoing Truth there and I'd only keep Wipe Away if UW miracles became a real threat in my meta as well. You may also notice that your deck is really vulnerable to karakas and planeswalkers, especially Liliana, since you're not packing Needles. So if Miracles is not a real thing in your meta, replace wipe away for needle and I'd also take out a singleton flusterstorm in it's favor, since you're supposedly already packing 4 seizes in your 75 anyway.

Those are pretty much all of the sugestions I can make so I hope it was of help. Good luck.

Edit:

You may also consider removing the sideboarded flusterstorms altogether. It's not a bad card per se but I just don't buy this idea of having counters in reanimator's sideboard. This deck will attempt to go off as soon as it can, so you won't really have a lot of mana up to keep casting counters unless they are free, especially if you're trying to cast SnT. Proactive protection in the form of discard is MUCH better, since it not only deals with counters earlier, but it gives you information and can possibly hit a hate card. Also, casting a discard spell will ALWAYS work, while a counter may not, since if it gets countered then it means it has basically dealt with a counter that would otherwise target your reanimation spell, and it has also given you the information that there is something precious in the opponent's hand, possibly being a surgical or an extirpate. Dealing with counters/hate cards preemptively will also help against Dazes and Pierces, since you can discard your opponent's cards in this turn and try to reanimate in the next one with a higher success chance in case he didn't draw anything "special" between your turns. So, unless your meta has a high storm presence, flusterstorm in the sideboard just isn't a thing to look for in my opinion. I'd switch those for Duress completely.

Thank you for the response. The reason im packing flusterstorm is because it gives me an additional out to Omni Tell. The wipe aways have to stay for now sadly, there is 3 miracles in my local meta, now the chains, I can agree with dropping. They were a try and see approach and it failed. Though if Discard is just better against show and tell decks it, I could drop the flusterstorms.

So for my own record keeping, you're suggesting:
Main board
-2 basic lands
-2 Hapless Researcher
-1 Jin-Gitaxis
-1 Iona
-1 Sphinx

+3 Thoughtseize
+1 Elesh Norn
+1 Angel of Despair
+1 Ponder
+1 Animate Dead

Side board:
-1 Archangel
-1 Angel of Despair
-1 Elesh norn
-2 Chain of Vapor
+ 1 Iona
+1 Sphinx
+1 Thoughtseize
+2 Echoing Truth

Johanovich
12-11-2012, 07:33 PM
I really don't see the point of running 18 or even 17 lands on reanimator, especially when packing ponder. I'd cut 1 island and 1 swamp. It's been ages since I've been playing with 16 lands and I've come to the conclusion this is the right mana count, as you can play most of your deck with a single sea on the ground, so drawing mana is not something you really want to do here unless it's a fetch land to combo off with brainstorm. Also, Hapless Researcher is really outdated, I'd cut them too alongside 1 jin and exchange Elesh and the Sphinx places. Sphinx falls way too short on utility after Griselbrand has been printed and it's extremely vulnerable to removal/sac, so it's safe to move it to the sideboard unless your meta is swarming with goblins. Also, I think Iona is more of a sideboard card than a main one, I would also place it there while taking despair to the main board, since it's the only creature that truly deals with karakas, which Tidespout doesn't really do anything about, and actually does something as soon as it enters the field. Thoughtseize is a must have in this deck and it's nowhere in your 75, so stick to at least 3 mainboard and 1 in the SB by replacing Empyrial altogether. It is a key card from g1 to g3 because it's great to deal with hate such as surgical, artifacts/enchantments that haven't been casted yet, faerie macabre and the like, plus it deals with counters, so it's something that you can't just overlook. If you don't have them, then stick to duress if it has to be. Now, the remaining deck slot you can fill as you like, whereas the obvious choices are +1 animate dead or +1 ponder, maybe even +1 thoughtseize since it adds to protection + emergency consistency anyway.

As for your sideboard, Chains of Vapor is really a subpar card, you want Echoing Truth there and I'd only keep Wipe Away if UW miracles became a real threat in my meta as well. You may also notice that your deck is really vulnerable to karakas and planeswalkers, especially Liliana, since you're not packing Needles. So if Miracles is not a real thing in your meta, replace wipe away for needle and I'd also take out a singleton flusterstorm in it's favor, since you're supposedly already packing 4 seizes in your 75 anyway.

Those are pretty much all of the sugestions I can make so I hope it was of help. Good luck.

Edit:

You may also consider removing the sideboarded flusterstorms altogether. It's not a bad card per se but I just don't buy this idea of having counters in reanimator's sideboard. This deck will attempt to go off as soon as it can, so you won't really have a lot of mana up to keep casting counters unless they are free, especially if you're trying to cast SnT. Proactive protection in the form of discard is MUCH better, since it not only deals with counters earlier, but it gives you information and can possibly hit a hate card. Casting a discard spell has the benefit of always working, while a counter doesn't. If it gets countered, then it means your discard spell has basically dealt with a counter that would otherwise target your reanimation spell and, because your opponent couldn't afford to let it resolve, the obvious conclusion is that there is something precious in the opponent's hand, possibly being a surgical or an extirpate. Therefore, information always comes with targeted hand disruption, one way or another. Dealing with counters/hate cards preemptively will also help against Dazes and Pierces, since you can discard your opponent's cards this turn and try to reanimate in the next one with a higher success chance, in case he didn't draw anything "special" between your turns. So, unless your meta has a high storm presence, flusterstorm in the sideboard just isn't a thing to look for in my opinion. I'd switch those for Duress completely.

I agree with you on most points. However I run 17 lands at the moment and I also run 3/2 split of study and researcher. And I do this for the same reason: wasteland, daze and spell pierce. RUG delver is still a large contender in my meta and having a way of getting creatures in the grave that circumvenes spell pierce is very nice (hapless being a creature). His ability also goes at instant speed which helps with gravehate and it doesn't cost mana at the time you activate it. Having that extra land helps you to play around daze since it will give you that extra mana more consistently. Because of the prevalence of delver and goblins in my meta I also still run sphinx main. There is absolutely no way for RUG to beat sphinx and goblins also has a very tough time with him except when they have krenko out of triple piledriver or something along those lines.

I agree with you on everything else about the wipe, peedles, thoughtseizes etc.

Also mentionable is inquisition of kozilek instead of duress. It doesn't take force of will and jace but it gets rid of oozes, shamans, tarmogoyf, knight etc. And afterwards you can steal them from their graveyard. There is little more statisfying as stealing a goyf/knight and beating it's owner to death with it. Perhaps a split of duress and inquisition if you can't afford thoughtseizes.

Pdf
12-15-2012, 03:20 PM
With Abrupt Decay seeing a lot of play, I would cut Animate Deads in favor of more Exhumes and Reanimates.

To combat Deathrite Shamans and Scavenging Oozes, Deathmark or Dismember are reasonable options, as well as Submerge. Pithing Needle is versatile.

Griselbrand is great, but it's possible that going for a different first reanimation target may be a better idea. Grave Titan provides a buffer from Edict effects, and Inkwell Leviathan and Iona are tough for control decks to beat.

Playing Liliana of the Veil in the sideboard is also a reasonable choice since she doubles up as a method of killing creatures as well as being a discard outlet.

I think splashing green could have some merit. You gain access to Deathrite Shamans of your own, Abrupt Decay, Dryad Arbor (as a buffer from Edicts), and can also more reasonably play a transformative sideboard via playing Tarmogoyfs, Delvers, or go the control route and play Jaces, Lilianas, etc. This may be stronger than trying to answer opposing hate or skirt around it with Show and Tell. Most opponents in the sideboard games will mulligan into their hate, so having an alternative strategy may give the deck some resiliency.

If Reanimator isn't consistently winning game 1, I'm not sure it's worth playing until the meta 'forgets' about its existence and it's time to strike again.

Those are good tips for BUG. Sigarda is a great card against BUG since she's almost impossible for them to remove once she hits and then you're free to reanimate other things without worrying about having to sac them.

Also since I don't have the show and tells I also add in Delver/Jace as more threats/distractions and the Delvers can help on the beatdown plan.

I tried cutting the Animate Deads but found I missed the option to animate the other grave as well and didn't like giving them something back either but it's also a metagame choice.

sadakiyo
12-19-2012, 06:02 AM
I saw some list that has snapcaster and delver on the SB. I have no idea what they're for.
Can someone enlighten me on this one?

TheXile
12-22-2012, 08:42 AM
I saw some list that has snapcaster and delver on the SB. I have no idea what they're for.
Can someone enlighten me on this one?

It was a transformational sideboard. The pilot wanted to blank his opponents hate by changing to a U/B delver list with Snapcaster/Dark Confidant/Delver instead of the big reanimation targets.

Alsan
12-27-2012, 07:17 AM
Hello people! Merry Christmas :). I've made a change to my decklist to fight those horde of BUG shamanism, and I've won my last large tournament of the year with it. Have a look:

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9846&iddeck=71855

I played against:

Team america 1-2 (3 wastelands in a row in G1, turn 1 to 3, 3 daze in game 3 to my show and tell protected by daze and fow.)
Goblins 2-0
GB Emrakul Post 2-1
Jund 2-1 (He had 12, a shaman and creatures, and I thought he would fetch into Overgrown tomb 'cause I've been testing modern whole week and attacked for nothing with Iona and Angel of despair into a Bayou fetched. Yeah, I'm stupid).
Zoo 2-0
Goblins 2-1
Top8 - Sneak attack 2-1 (he forgot to draw7 with griselbrand in G2 and still had Blood moon, Sneak attack, Emrakul, Wipe away.. meh)
Top4 - UWr Rip Miracles 2-0 (G1 turn 2 Griselbrand scoops, G2 Turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage, turn 1 mine Duress into Rip, Pyro, Fow, Fow, Scalding, discarding Rip, turn 2 Counterbalance from top, Daze, turn 2 mine land, ponder, turn 3 RIP, resolves, turn 3 mine Bstorm + fetch + Tseize discarding Pyro, turn 4 him land, turn 4 mine ponder + careful, all exiled, turn 5 another land, turn 5 mine, land, tseize discarding Fow, he had only 1 fow, Show and tell into griselbrand drawing 7 GG.)
Finals - Team america (like the one that won SCG Atlanta) 2-0. G1 Sphinx on turn 3 Griselbrand on turn 5, G2 I discarded his Fow in turn 1 but he found after a ponder 1 Spierce, but Sheoldred landed in Turn 3, and it was all over.

My conclussions: Pithing needle still sucks, Massacre is not as good as Submerge, hope the Dimir part of Gatecrash helps us with those pesky enchantments, haha. -2 Massacre, -1 Pithing needle, +3 ?. Maybe the 4th Show and tell. I don't know.

Zilong
01-04-2013, 11:51 AM
Hello people! Merry Christmas :). I've made a change to my decklist to fight those horde of BUG shamanism, and I've won my last large tournament of the year with it. Have a look:

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9846&iddeck=71855

I played against:

Team america 1-2 (3 wastelands in a row in G1, turn 1 to 3, 3 daze in game 3 to my show and tell protected by daze and fow.)
Goblins 2-0
GB Emrakul Post 2-1
Jund 2-1 (He had 12, a shaman and creatures, and I thought he would fetch into Overgrown tomb 'cause I've been testing modern whole week and attacked for nothing with Iona and Angel of despair into a Bayou fetched. Yeah, I'm stupid).
Zoo 2-0
Goblins 2-1
Top8 - Sneak attack 2-1 (he forgot to draw7 with griselbrand in G2 and still had Blood moon, Sneak attack, Emrakul, Wipe away.. meh)
Top4 - UWr Rip Miracles 2-0 (G1 turn 2 Griselbrand scoops, G2 Turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage, turn 1 mine Duress into Rip, Pyro, Fow, Fow, Scalding, discarding Rip, turn 2 Counterbalance from top, Daze, turn 2 mine land, ponder, turn 3 RIP, resolves, turn 3 mine Bstorm + fetch + Tseize discarding Pyro, turn 4 him land, turn 4 mine ponder + careful, all exiled, turn 5 another land, turn 5 mine, land, tseize discarding Fow, he had only 1 fow, Show and tell into griselbrand drawing 7 GG.)
Finals - Team america (like the one that won SCG Atlanta) 2-0. G1 Sphinx on turn 3 Griselbrand on turn 5, G2 I discarded his Fow in turn 1 but he found after a ponder 1 Spierce, but Sheoldred landed in Turn 3, and it was all over.

My conclussions: Pithing needle still sucks, Massacre is not as good as Submerge, hope the Dimir part of Gatecrash helps us with those pesky enchantments, haha. -2 Massacre, -1 Pithing needle, +3 ?. Maybe the 4th Show and tell. I don't know.

thank u

PirateKing
01-07-2013, 10:31 AM
Hey, I know a handful of you were holding out hope that the Dimir Charm from Gatecrash would aid the meta.

:u::b:
Instant
Choose one - Counter target sorcery spell; or destroy target creature with power 2 or less; or look at the top three cards of target player's library, then put one back and the rest into that player's graveyard.

While I wasn't expecting anything very helpful, I did recognize that most Dimir bombs were going to be flashy and expensive, and the charm had the best chance of being simple and effective in a narrow application. I'm still left pessimistic that without the (impossible) return of Mystical Tutor, the deck needs something to get it out of the rut we've found ourselves in with maindeck hate in the DtB.

Johanovich
01-07-2013, 03:07 PM
Hey, I know a handful of you were holding out hope that the Dimir Charm from Gatecrash would aid the meta.

:u::b:
Instant
Choose one - Counter target sorcery spell; or destroy target creature with power 2 or less; or look at the top three cards of target player's library, then put one back and the rest into that player's graveyard.

While I wasn't expecting anything very helpful, I did recognize that most Dimir bombs were going to be flashy and expensive, and the charm had the best chance of being simple and effective in a narrow application. I'm still left pessimistic that without the (impossible) return of Mystical Tutor, the deck needs something to get it out of the rut we've found ourselves in with maindeck hate in the DtB.

I don't think this will do much for the deck. Sure it kills deathrite shaman and acts like a careful study/ponder hybrid of sorts. But careful study costs only 1 mana and allows you to choose which cards from you hand (including the one you drew) you discard. So if you careful study with a hand of 5, you essentially choose which 2 cards of 7 you discard where dimir charm only allows you to choose between the top 3 of the library and you even have to put one card back on top. I see this as strictly worse than lim-dûl's vault and that card doesn't even see much play in reanimator because of the cost and card disadvantage.

If the meta gets infested with the mirror and show and tell then this becomes a good SB card, countering reanimate effects, show and tells and messing up people's brainstorms and ponders.

lostgenius
01-10-2013, 11:58 AM
What would you say Reanimator's worst match ups are? Also, one of the decks that I personally have a 1% win against are the Rishadan Port. How would you go about beating these decks? And, how heavy are they in the current meta?

Thanks for the help!

(I'm going to a Star City Open soon and would like to be ready).

DarkJester
01-10-2013, 01:32 PM
What would you say Reanimator's worst match ups are? Also, one of the decks that I personally have a 1% win against are the Rishadan Port. How would you go about beating these decks? And, how heavy are they in the current meta?

Thanks for the help!

(I'm going to a Star City Open soon and would like to be ready).

Which deck do you mean? Rishadan Port may be played by:

Lands
Goblins
MUD
Death'n'Taxes

Did I forget something (maybe Staxx?)?

lostgenius
01-10-2013, 02:15 PM
Which deck do you mean? Rishadan Port may be played by:

Lands
Goblins
MUD
Death'n'Taxes

Did I forget something (maybe Staxx?)?

Sorry, Lands. I haven't played Death'n'Taxes yet, what is the game plan there?

TerribleTim68
01-10-2013, 02:26 PM
. . .Did I forget something (maybe Staxx?)?

Yes, Scepter/Chant. Not that it's being played any more, but hey you asked. :wink: :tongue:

DarkJester
01-10-2013, 03:15 PM
Sorry, Lands. I haven't played Death'n'Taxes yet, what is the game plan there?

Against Lands: Fetch basics to avoid Wasteland, use Entomb for a Shroud/Hexproof-Critter (inkwell leviathan should be very good) against Maze of Ith, be aware of CropRotation into Bojuka Bog. Whats your concrete Problem with this Matchup? They have Tabernacle, but that souldn't be such a problem for Reanimator as it is for Dredge (They may Loam/GhostQuarter you out of the game, but this would be a nut-draw). Postboard I would bring in Needles as well as Show and Tells (be careful: some old-school lists may play Mindslaver and slave you out of the game with Academy Ruins).





Yes, Scepter/Chant. Not that it's being played any more, but hey you asked. :wink: :tongue:

I love you too, honey! ;)

TerribleTim68
01-10-2013, 04:22 PM
I love you too, honey! ;)

Lol! :cool:

phazonmutant
01-11-2013, 02:22 AM
What would you say Reanimator's worst match ups are? Also, one of the decks that I personally have a 1% win against are the Rishadan Port. How would you go about beating these decks? And, how heavy are they in the current meta?

Thanks for the help!

(I'm going to a Star City Open soon and would like to be ready).

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, check out http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23794-Griselbrand-Reanimator&p=696672&viewfull=1#post696672

If you're worried about Port, just reanimate in response to the tap! But seriously, being able to play Emrakul and having Stifle gives you a ton of game against random things game 1.

PirateKing
01-14-2013, 07:48 AM
If you're worried about Port, just reanimate in response to the tap!

Isn't the whole point to Port you during your upkeep, denying you main phase mana?

OrGy
01-14-2013, 07:57 AM
Isn't the whole point to Port you during your upkeep, denying you main phase mana?

Yes it is.
But the purpose of available mana during the main phase is, as far as reanimator is concerned, to reanimate stuff.
Instant speed reanimation allows NLR to animate in response of pesky plays such as tapping your mana, exiling your creatures in the yard, and so on.
But like Phazonmuant said, there's a thread devoted to this particular approach and I wouldn't want to pollute this topic any further.

GexxX
01-14-2013, 08:10 AM
Has anyone taken a look at the recent SCG Top8 List?
Is it just me or does the Deck look like a complete random pile just being rogue and surprise people or is there actually some potential we might adapt to improve our matchups? Could also be well positioned due to the lack of BUG... At least it seemed to me that way at first sight.

any thoughts ?

DarkJester
01-14-2013, 08:41 AM
Has anyone taken a look at the recent SCG Top8 List?
Is it just me or does the Deck look like a complete random pile just being rogue and surprise people or is there actually some potential we might adapt to improve our matchups? Could also be well positioned due to the lack of BUG... At least it seemed to me that way at first sight.

any thoughts ?

Link?

JanoschEausH
01-14-2013, 09:07 AM
Link?

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=52285

attemanden
01-23-2013, 10:33 AM
Hey guys.
i have started to wanna play a combodeck with big beasts such as Show'n'tell, Reanimator and 12 post.
I wanted to tryout reanimator, when i started to think if it was the stronger choise?...
my question is, why reanimator>Show'n tell?... isnt show'n- simply stronger?

thanks for your help :)

rxavage
01-23-2013, 10:39 AM
Hey guys.
i have started to wanna play a combodeck with big beasts such as Show'n'tell, Reanimator and 12 post.
I wanted to tryout reanimator, when i started to think if it was the stronger choise?...
my question is, why reanimator>Show'n tell?... isnt show'n- simply stronger?

thanks for your help :)

Reanimator is faster and more consistent, but there is a ton of gy-hate. Reanimator also beats Show&Tell usually.

attemanden
01-23-2013, 11:23 AM
What about cards such as plowshares and path to exile. dont those cards just ruin it all?

And i guess a couple of show&tell would be nice in main and SB vs GY hate?

Arsenal
01-23-2013, 04:30 PM
What about cards such as plowshares and path to exile. dont those cards just ruin it all?

And i guess a couple of show&tell would be nice in main and SB vs GY hate?

That's what Reanimator lists have traditionally been doing; 1-4x Show and Tell in the SB to counter the GY hate their opponents will be running G2. And we run countermagic + discard to deal with StP and other spot removal spells. Some of our fatties have built in evasion (Empyrial Archangel) so there's that too.

attemanden
01-24-2013, 07:02 AM
Discard and counterspells, it make sense :)...
but how can it be faster than Show&tell, they got lotus petal and ancient tombs... many good manaboosts to go off in T1 or T2...

egosum
01-24-2013, 07:36 AM
This is just because of the redundancy of the deck. Reanimator has many cards that do basically the same so it usually does not need long time cantripping into bussiness before going out.

Greetins,

Iñaki.-

aljiichiban
01-28-2013, 02:02 PM
Just wanted to share what happened this weekend in our local tourney...

I had the balls to face Deathrite Shaman decks, so I decided to sleeve this up:

4 Underground sea
4 polluted delta
2 misty rainforest
2 verdant catacombs
1 overgrown tomb
3 island
2 swamp

4 entomb
4 careful study
4 reanimate
3 exhume
2 show and tell
1 animate dead
2 griselbrand
1 jin gitaxias
1 sphinx of the steel wind
1 blazing archon
1 Empyrial archangel
1 elesh norn
1 tidespout tyrant
1 sheoldred, the whispering one
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
2 thoughseize
3 daze
4 force of will

Sb:
1 Inkwell leviathan
1 Iona, shield of Emeria
1 show and tell
2 echoing truth
2 submerge
3 pithing needle
2 deathmark
1 engineered explosives
2 flusterstorm


The MD is almost the same as with Alsan with 5-7 cards difference in the SB


Swiss:

Jund 2-1
G1: BS to hide entomb and reanimate from his IOK. Then both entomb grisel and reanimate on T3. My Daze met his liliana. Demon went all the way after.
G2: My deathmark meet his deathrite shaman. Then forced him to pop his tormod's. Just as I though coast was clear, he had surgical. BOOO!!!
G3: FOW for his T1 tormod's in order to bluff that I'll either entomb or Careful study. Show and tell Griselbrand on T3. Started swinging and went all the way.

Gobs 2-0
G1: His Lackey started swinging and bringing down the other gobs. Rishadan port delayed me for 1 turn, but i managed to animate dead an entombed elesh norn on G3.
G2: He plays chalice @1. Echoing truth for it then double entombed Elesh and sphinx before he plays it again. I Show and Tell Shoeldred and his gobs started dying. Brought back Elesh on my through Sheoldred on my turn to seal the deal.

Burn 2-1
G1: I mulled to 5. Went down to 9 before I was able to revive Sphinx with Animated dead and was able to lifelink once before he dropped sulfuric vortex. By then, it was too late for him.
G2: I got burned to death. Not much action on my part except for bringing back sheoldred
G3: FOWed his turn 2 relic. Went down to 11 before I entombed Iona, and exhumed the angel naming RED.

UW Rest in peace 0-2 (this guy had RIP main, energy fleld, terminus and CB)
G1: Turn 2 RIP then my SNT got countered.
G2: I was able to SNT Empyrial archangel but he brought down Energy field. He got his RIP-Helm of obedience combo 2 turns after.

5 peso 2-0(courtesy of the pilot)
He's my teamate and we agreed that he'll have a portion of whatever prize I'd win

Ended up first after 5 rounds.

Top 4:
Elves 2-0
G1: Turn 1 entomb, turn 2 reanimate
G2: He was 1 turn away from a Natural order to progen, but I was able to Careful study and reanimate elesh norn. The preator went all the way.


Finals:
UW RIP 2-1(I never expected to win, but I did)
G1: T1 CS to Reanimate Griselbrand. Swung once before he played energy field. After that, it took me to reanimated 2nd griselbrand(1st one was STP'ed) an archangel via SnT, getting around counterbalance and an exhumed Tidespout tyrant to win.
G2: I played thoughtseize then responded to his Brainstorm with daze to prevent him from hiding his cards. I nabbed his BS and proceeded to entomb the demon. To his luck, he topdecked RIP and I wasn't able to recover after.
G3: T1 entomb for Griselbrand , then T2 reanimate with FOW to protect it from his Spell pierce. Grisel started swinging for 2 turns, bringing my opponent down to 6 and played Engineered explosives for 2. He tutored detention sphere via enlightened at my EOT. He played it on his turn and I used the demon's ability to find FOW. I took 7 life 3 TIMES AND FOUND NO FOW(damn!!). Detention sphere resolved and targeted the demon. I bounced it via echoing truth at his EOT with 2 daze as protection (he has only 1 untapped island). Echoing truth resolves and griselbrand swung on my turn for the win.

It was a grinding, intense and epic(for me) battle. I'm glad I won a match where the odds are stacked up against me.

My sb is somewhat clunky. I’m looking for a better card than deathmark to combat hatebears. Will abrupt decay be a viable SB?

Lucky performance? Hmm... better lucky than good


Thanks for reading

Zilong
01-28-2013, 06:19 PM
Just wanted to share what happened this weekend in our local tourney...

I had the balls to face Deathrite Shaman decks, so I decided to sleeve this up:

4 Underground sea
4 polluted delta
2 misty rainforest
2 verdant catacombs
1 overgrown tomb
3 island
2 swamp

4 entomb
4 careful study
4 reanimate
3 exhume
2 show and tell
1 animate dead
2 griselbrand
1 jin gitaxias
1 sphinx of the steel wind
1 blazing archon
1 Empyrial archangel
1 elesh norn
1 tidespout tyrant
1 sheoldred, the whispering one
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
2 thoughseize
3 daze
4 force of will

Sb:
1 Inkwell leviathan
1 Iona, shield of Emeria
1 show and tell
2 echoing truth
2 submerge
3 pithing needle
2 deathmark
1 engineered explosives
2 flusterstorm


The MD is almost the same as with Alsan with 5-7 cards difference in the SB


Swiss:

Jund 2-1
G1: BS to hide entomb and reanimate from his IOK. Then both entomb grisel and reanimate on T3. My Daze met his liliana. Demon went all the way after.
G2: My deathmark meet his deathrite shaman. Then forced him to pop his tormod's. Just as I though coast was clear, he had surgical. BOOO!!!
G3: FOW for his T1 tormod's in order to bluff that I'll either entomb or Careful study. Show and tell Griselbrand on T3. Started swinging and went all the way.

Gobs 2-0
G1: His Lackey started swinging and bringing down the other gobs. Rishadan port delayed me for 1 turn, but i managed to animate dead an entombed elesh norn on G3.
G2: He plays chalice @1. Echoing truth for it then double entombed Elesh and sphinx before he plays it again. I Show and Tell Shoeldred and his gobs started dying. Brought back Elesh on my through Sheoldred on my turn to seal the deal.

Burn 2-1
G1: I mulled to 5. Went down to 9 before I was able to revive Sphinx with Animated dead and was able to lifelink once before he dropped sulfuric vortex. By then, it was too late for him.
G2: I got burned to death. Not much action on my part except for bringing back sheoldred
G3: FOWed his turn 2 relic. Went down to 11 before I entombed Iona, and exhumed the angel naming RED.

UW Rest in peace 0-2 (this guy had RIP main, energy fleld, terminus and CB)
G1: Turn 2 RIP then my SNT got countered.
G2: I was able to SNT Empyrial archangel but he brought down Energy field. He got his RIP-Helm of obedience combo 2 turns after.

5 peso 2-0(courtesy of the pilot)
He's my teamate and we agreed that he'll have a portion of whatever prize I'd win

Ended up first after 5 rounds.

Top 4:
Elves 2-0
G1: Turn 1 entomb, turn 2 reanimate
G2: He was 1 turn away from a Natural order to progen, but I was able to Careful study and reanimate elesh norn. The preator went all the way.


Finals:
UW RIP 2-1(I never expected to win, but I did)
G1: T1 CS to Reanimate Griselbrand. Swung once before he played energy field. After that, it took me to reanimated 2nd griselbrand(1st one was STP'ed) an archangel via SnT, getting around counterbalance and an exhumed Tidespout tyrant to win.
G2: I played thoughtseize then responded to his Brainstorm with daze to prevent him from hiding his cards. I nabbed his BS and proceeded to entomb the demon. To his luck, he topdecked RIP and I wasn't able to recover after.
G3: T1 entomb for Griselbrand , then T2 reanimate with FOW to protect it from his Spell pierce. Grisel started swinging for 2 turns, bringing my opponent down to 6 and played Engineered explosives for 2. He tutored detention sphere via enlightened at my EOT. He played it on his turn and I used the demon's ability to find FOW. I took 7 life 3 TIMES AND FOUND NO FOW(damn!!). Detention sphere resolved and targeted the demon. I bounced it via echoing truth at his EOT with 2 daze as protection (he has only 1 untapped island). Echoing truth resolves and griselbrand swung on my turn for the win.

It was a grinding, intense and epic(for me) battle. I'm glad I won a match where the odds are stacked up against me.

My sb is somewhat clunky. I’m looking for a better card than deathmark to combat hatebears. Will abrupt decay be a viable SB?

Lucky performance? Hmm... better lucky than good


Thanks for reading

Thx for ur report too!

EE is awesome for RIP+Energy field

Alsan
01-29-2013, 09:07 PM
Congrats man :). My side is right now 3 submerge, 1 Angel of despair, 1 Iona, 1 coffin purge, 1 show and tell, 1 flusterstorm, 1 Echoing truth, 2 Duress, 2 Engineered explosives, 2?.

Did you find useless, as I did, the leviathan?

aljiichiban
01-30-2013, 10:09 AM
Congrats man :). My side is right now 3 submerge, 1 Angel of despair, 1 Iona, 1 coffin purge, 1 show and tell, 1 flusterstorm, 1 Echoing truth, 2 Duress, 2 Engineered explosives, 2?.

Did you find useless, as I did, the leviathan?


I did not find use for inky in my last tourney. But I'll keep him in the Sb for the meantime since a 7/11 Island walk, trample and shroud beater is not easy to be dealt with.

I was thinking of making changes in SB:

-2 submerge, -2 deathmark, - 1 EE, + 3 Abrupt decay + 1 duress + 1 Echoing.

Then replace either island/swamp with another Overgrown tomb(I don't have Bayou). So there will be 2 B/G duals in MD that can be fetched by 4 polluted, 2 misty and 2 verdant.

Reason for the changes are:

- Abrupt decay takes care not only of hatebears but also Counterbalance, RIP, Detention sphere, energy flux.
- Our needles can have more room to name other stuff (karakas, maze of ith, sensei, Sneak attack, macabre, crypt, relic)
- will have more room for SB slots.

thoughts?

twndomn
02-04-2013, 05:04 PM
Reanimator Tendril
http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/363601431 starting at 8:56:40

YouTube Deck Tech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-pUigFILlE



Reanimator Tendrils
Greg Mitchell
34th Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 2/3/2013
Legacy


2 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand

1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Underground Sea

2 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
3 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Intuition
4 Shallow Grave
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Ponder
2 Reanimate
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
2 Cabal Ritual
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
2 Extirpate
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Show and Tell

nodahero
02-05-2013, 12:04 AM
The above deck has its own thread... Check the developmental section (TinFins I believe)

Mr. Froggy
02-07-2013, 01:24 PM
I feel like building Reanimator, is it any good in today's meta?

spector14
02-08-2013, 04:52 AM
Hello! I have a doubt about the match up against omnitell: I would like to know what side in and what side out!

Rune
02-08-2013, 03:29 PM
I feel like building Reanimator, is it any good in today's meta?

It's the best deck in the format, but only for as long as people aren't aware of this.

Mr. Froggy
02-08-2013, 04:43 PM
So using this logic my Moubtain Goat.dec is also a DTB? :P and yes, I'm kidding :)

cogitoergosum
02-11-2013, 06:58 PM
I took down a local tournament this weekend with Reanimator. It was about 40+ people and it is a developed, and sometimes combo heavy meta. I figured I would share my list with anyone interested:

Creatures:
x2 Griselbrand
Tidesprout Tyrant
Angel of Despair
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
Empyrial Archangel
x2 Hapless Researcher
Instants:
x4 Brainstorm
x4 Force of Will
x4 Daze
x4 Entomb
Sorcery:
x2 Careful Study
x2 Show and Tell
x4 Exhume
x4 Reanimate
x2 Cabal Therapy
x1 Thoughtseize
x3 Gitaxian Probe
Sideboard:
Show and Tell
x2 Wipe Away
Echoing Truth
x3 Surgical Extraction
x3 Pithing Needle
Cabal Therapy
Inkwell Leviathan
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Blazing Archon

Here is a quick recap of my matchups and subsequent record:
2-0 vs BUG midrange variant
0-2 vs. Esperstoneblade
2-0 vs Affinity
2-1 Against Zombartment
Round 4: My opponent and I drew into the t8 (I beat him in the finals).

Top 8:
2-1 vs SnT Dreams Halls Variant
2-0 against Esper stoneblade. This was the same opponent I lost to earlier, but we had some great games agasint eachother.
2-0 Against hightide. Landing Iona in both games ftw.

All and all it was a great day. I won myself a NM Tundra, and I can't wait to go play there again. If anyone is interested in more specifics, I would be glad to recall whatever I can. Cheers!

Alsan
02-11-2013, 08:07 PM
I don't get it. Gitaxian Probe in a Reanimator decklist? Is not worth the cabal therapies, it uses life as a resource as Griselbrand + Tseize + Reanimate does. Can you explain?

cogitoergosum
02-11-2013, 08:51 PM
I don't get it. Gitaxian Probe in a Reanimator decklist? Is not worth the cabal therapies, it uses life as a resource as Griselbrand + Tseize + Reanimate does. Can you explain?

It really started as something I just wanted to test out. I had been tinkering with them in place of thoughtseize and ponder. And honestly, I don't think I lose anymore life than I would running 3-4 thoughtseize maindeck. Furthermore, the interaction of the two is just so powerful that I thought it merited more testing. After performing well on cockatrice, I decided to sleeve it up and run it through a tournament.

I did not miss a therapy all day, mainly because I either had the gitaxian probe turn1, or I new I needed to combo and named the only card I knew the other deck could beat me with, e.g. FoW, in all of the relevant match ups. With the redundancy of the deck, it was fairly easy to sacrifice hapless researchers for flashback in a pinch, i.e. if my oponents hand called for it. Futhermore, this way I have 6 ways of seeing my opponents hand t1, and hence knowing exactly how I needed to play the first three turns in order to succeed with my combo.

I will say that I really liked it. What you lose in the card filtering of the ponder, you make up for in CA with therapy and game state knowledge with the probe. And the deck itself is so redundant that with correct mulliganing, it is pretty easy to have the combo pieces in turn 2-3 every game.

Give it a try. I think you will be pleasantly suprised.

Zilong
02-12-2013, 01:56 PM
Alsan i have some questions of ur list.

1. what's ur side plan with ur list vs BUG,JUND and Sneak Attack? will you re-join the needles for shaman/liliana/Sneak Attack?
2. 1 misdrection will be useful?
3. i want test grave titan vs Liliana in play, replace Sheoldred in the main deck, how do u think?

thanks.

Rune
02-12-2013, 04:47 PM
Grave Titan isn't necessary. You really shouldn't stray far from this creature setup

4 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant

Winning the MOCS didn't make me less of an arrogant, elitist asshole, so I'll just put this bluntly: the lists on the last couple of pages have all been pretty horrendous. Playing less than 4 Griselbrands is just incredibly wrong. I wouldn't fault anyone for playing Sphinx of the Steel Wind or Jin-Gitaxias, because they are reasonable as 5th Griselbrands, but all other options are pretty much garbage. Moving Iona to the board is also defensible, because she's not great in all metagames. If you start to put highly situational creatures like Sheoldred, Empyrial Archangel, Blazing Archona and Angel of Despair into the deck you're just actively lowering your chances of winning for no reason. Tidespout is the most situational creature in my list by far, but you're pretty much forced to play him. I almost never use him, but in the few matchups where you need him he's just insane.

The only problem with this setup is that you're somewhat soft to Karakas. What you do against that is you get Griselbrand into play, draw 14 and protect Tidespout. This doesn't alwasy work, though, so if you expect a lot of Karakas you might want to run 1 or 2 Karakas in your maindeck. However, Karakas isn't really an issue anymore since KotR decks have basically become extinct. The only time you really face it in game 1 these days is against UW players who randomly draw their 1-of.

Needle is solid against both Jund and Sneak and Show.

Misdirection is fine. You can run it as pitch counter 5-6, but I don't think I would ever play it over FoW in this deck. Overall I think it's better in Sneak/Show than Reanimator, because this deck is less worried about Hymns than they are.

Zilong
02-12-2013, 07:56 PM
Grave Titan isn't necessary. You really shouldn't stray far from this creature setup

4 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant

Winning the MOCS didn't make me less of an arrogant, elitist asshole, so I'll just put this bluntly: the lists on the last couple of pages have all been pretty horrendous. Playing less than 4 Griselbrands is just incredibly wrong. I wouldn't fault anyone for playing Sphinx of the Steel Wind or Jin-Gitaxias, because they are reasonable as 5th Griselbrands, but all other options are pretty much garbage. Moving Iona to the board is also defensible, because she's not great in all metagames. If you start to put highly situational creatures like Sheoldred, Empyrial Archangel, Blazing Archona and Angel of Despair into the deck you're just actively lowering your chances of winning for no reason. Tidespout is the most situational creature in my list by far, but you're pretty much forced to play him. I almost never use him, but in the few matchups where you need him he's just insane.

The only problem with this setup is that you're somewhat soft to Karakas. What you do against that is you get Griselbrand into play, draw 14 and protect Tidespout. This doesn't alwasy work, though, so if you expect a lot of Karakas you might want to run 1 or 2 Karakas in your maindeck. However, Karakas isn't really an issue anymore since KotR decks have basically become extinct. The only time you really face it in game 1 these days is against UW players who randomly draw their 1-of.

Needle is solid against both Jund and Sneak and Show.

Misdirection is fine. You can run it as pitch counter 5-6, but I don't think I would ever play it over FoW in this deck. Overall I think it's better in Sneak/Show than Reanimator, because this deck is less worried about Hymns than they are.

i used play the version with 4 griselbrand and also have 4 lotus petal + 4 daze.

it's fast, but hurt when i got a Surgical Extraction with no counter in hand.

and now i do play 2 karakas in main deck, against other karakas and a lot of Sneak Attack.

Thank your suggestion I will consider it.

Alsan
02-13-2013, 10:33 PM
3500 posts and now the subtheme of the creature configuration rises again. Most lists of the last pages have been pretty horrendous, as you say, but your configuration is not far from terrible. Back into GP Ghent those kind of decklists performed very well (and very bad, everyone was prepared to fight griselbrand) 'cause all the field was RUG delver and UW Miracles, and Griselbrand crushes those decks. In a REAL metagame, not the one of a GP, where everyone plays netdecks the best deck of that moment, if you're only resilent to Griselbrand you'll be a bye more than a couple of times because he doesn't cover all situations.

But as the winner of MOCS, you'll know that for sure ;).

@cogitoergosum: thanks for the explanation, I'll give it a try. Nice to know other ways to play the deck.

@Zilong: the planning vs BUG / Jund is the same as RUG, if you lose a lot you can always turn back to the Hapless researcher plan. And against Sneak show, pack the Graffdigers cage removal, board 1-2 show and tells, and use your cantrips well. But if you're not playing Blazing archon + Angel of despair, GL trying to win that match if HE casts succesfuly S&T. I have 2 open slots on SB, and as I said before, I'm open to suggestions :). Needle is a worse option than EE, doesn't interact with Cages. Ab.Decay crushes your needled-shaman hopes, remember.

Zilong
02-14-2013, 05:56 AM
3500 posts and now the subtheme of the creature configuration rises again. Most lists of the last pages have been pretty horrendous, as you say, but your configuration is not far from terrible. Back into GP Ghent those kind of decklists performed very well (and very bad, everyone was prepared to fight griselbrand) 'cause all the field was RUG delver and UW Miracles, and Griselbrand crushes those decks. In a REAL metagame, not the one of a GP, where everyone plays netdecks the best deck of that moment, if you're only resilent to Griselbrand you'll be a bye more than a couple of times because he doesn't cover all situations.

But as the winner of MOCS, you'll know that for sure ;).

@cogitoergosum: thanks for the explanation, I'll give it a try. Nice to know other ways to play the deck.

@Zilong: the planning vs BUG / Jund is the same as RUG, if you lose a lot you can always turn back to the Hapless researcher plan. And against Sneak show, pack the Graffdigers cage removal, board 1-2 show and tells, and use your cantrips well. But if you're not playing Blazing archon + Angel of despair, GL trying to win that match if HE casts succesfuly S&T. I have 2 open slots on SB, and as I said before, I'm open to suggestions :). Needle is a worse option than EE, doesn't interact with Cages. Ab.Decay crushes your needled-shaman hopes, remember.

OK, thank u.