PDA

View Full Version : [Deck] Reanimator



Pages : 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

Willoe
04-16-2008, 01:35 PM
The main idea with my build is to judge your opening hands from whether they contain an Intuition or not instead of mulliganning for the powerful dudes, since Intuition can fetch all of them. I think this is a great advantage.

Why play the Ghastlord? Well, I don't like cards that can get chumped. This one can't. Your opponent might win the game by blocking your Sundering Titan with a Goyf to stall the game for a turn, which might be just enough time to find that STP. Therefore, I like slower but proof clocks better than I like fast but clunky clocks. Hope you understand, this is why I play the Ghastlord. Deep-Sea Kraken could also be a consideration, but I like the Unmasking effect. The factor that this guy actually can be played is very important to me.

Don't know what you think, but so far, my testing results show me that the Ghastlord's doable. He won me a couple of games against Landstill. That he can knock off ANY non-land card makes him good. He's an answer and a threat in one card. I like that.

4 Bogardan Hellkites? How is this any good when I only need 1 to win me the game? Burning 2 piledrivers and a lacky gives me a good race, and 1 Hellkite can win me the game single-handedly. And since I got Intuition, and when I play that, at least one Hellkite should hit the graveyard, and I reanimate it, why bother wasting slots on more Hellkites? 4 Intuition plus 2 Hellkite is the same as 2 Intuition 4 Hellkites.

Team-Hero
04-16-2008, 03:57 PM
The Ghastlord is also castable late game. But why play Ghastlord over a MindLeech Mass?

If your agrument is 'Goyf Blocks', then just simply use flyers. I have 1 Filth in my sideboard just in case.

nodahero
04-16-2008, 07:58 PM
Going back to the Ghastlord arguement... IF you opponent blocked ur titan with goyf to buy a turn to RFG it I doubt your ghastlord will do any better. Thing about it this way. If you oppenent is blocking titan that means he is PROLLY within 7 life or so. In this scenario it takes the titan 2 punches to put him in that range. With the Ghastlord it would take 3 turns. Thus in your scenairo he would have already gotten the extra turn he needed. If you want evasion then run hellkite he shaves a turn off of the Ghastlords clock easy not to mention Hellkite is better against creatures something Iv heard legacy has a few of...

rodgon666
04-17-2008, 02:54 AM
ghastlord sucks... underpowered and the ability is overrated. might as well run hippie. hahahaha youll hardly hardcast him, and at that point in the game youll be spending you mana on better things anyways. he sucks off a show and tell more than any other critter and if the opponent lets you hit them and they have removal in hand their bad and odds are youll win anyways.

4 dragons are a must. they deal 5 damage even if they get killed! just for getting played you lava axe their asses. how is having more and more of these bad? and they work well with the new dragon too. hahaha

electrolyze:
i like your creature base, but the reasoning behind the 1 offs is the resilience to extirpate. but its worth a try, i might be giving extirpate too much credit.

and 4 intuitions and 2 hellkites does not equal to 2 intuitions with 4 hellkites... hellkite opening hands are superior any day to intuitions, intuitions are there for support, they are not an engine.

rodgon666
04-17-2008, 03:18 AM
What makes a DTB?

A Deck to Beat is a deck which has at least five placements in Top 8's at 33+ person tournaments in the most recent ten tournaments.


What makes a DTW?

A Deck to Watch is a deck which has at least three placements in Top 8's at 33+ person tournaments in the most recent ten tournaments.
.......................................................................................................

this deck qualifies for both.

11 top 4 wins in the last 13 tournaments at GE plus 1 Historic win ( GE Winterfest).

ill leave it at the forum bosses to decide. and if not please let me know why.


Edit: 2 out of the 13 i didnt attend. ^_^

enemyofarsenic
04-17-2008, 03:52 AM
Among the shadowmoor cards, which fatties/spells would most likely "synergize" with reanimator?

rleader
04-17-2008, 08:16 AM
Rod, I wanted to post to thank you for the build. It should get more press just for the sake that it's probably one of the least expensive decks for standard players thinking about getting into legacy (they probably have all the "money" cards already!). That point bears repeating. I mean, just tell someone with a playset of dragons and prowlers that for about $40 extra they could have a deck to break out on special occasions that's absolutely nuts compared to anything they've ever used before, including both versions of D-storm. Compared to the advice of "well, you could play burn or affinity if you can't afford a 'real deck,'" reanimator sounds like a more exciting option.

I've been trying to build a budget version of it myself, since with UB it's so easy to cheat on the land a little bit (the only real changes I made), as I'm a deck collector (I like to keep them sleeved and boxed, complete with sideboard) and there's only so many you can get away with doing that with as a person of normal means. I think my brother mentioned this to you (he's the one with the disastrous Thresh mulligans vs. your dredge last week).

My pet deck is Pox (also known as "how the $#%@ did my deck get this expensive without dual lands?") and your reanimator deck is far more scary to me than burn as far as match ups go. Really. I found that awesome so I had to get the deck.

Have you ever tried Quicken? I can see how bad a blind cantrip could be in the deck, since you really need to know what cards you *actually* have access to, but reanimating or SATing a guy into play during the combat phase seems awesome. Maybe too awesome to work, but hey.

Nihil Credo
04-17-2008, 08:47 AM
this deck qualifies for both.

11 top 4 wins in the last 13 tournaments at GE plus 1 Historic win ( GE Winterfest).
Not quite.

1) The requirements refer to the last ten tournaments (OR every tournament in the last month, whichever is greater) worldwide.

2) Only tournaments with 33+ players are considered for the DTB forum. That means six rounds of swiss, and while I haven't checked them all, I've seen quite a few reports on this thread that mentioned five rounds... i.e., less than 33 players.

3) Even then, the full Top 8 is usually required to count the tournaments in there. It would be pretty unfair if 7 Zombie decks and 1 Treefolk decks made top 8, and only the Treefolk deck got DTBF 'points'.

rodgon666
04-17-2008, 12:23 PM
ok so more people need to play it worldwide?... hopefully they do.

also quicken!... this might be good! never even considered it. ill make sure to test it in a slot this week in my weekly tourney and im sure it will be at least ok in the deck.

Benie Bederios
04-17-2008, 02:45 PM
ok so more people need to play it worldwide?... hopefully they do.

also quicken!... this might be good! never even considered it. ill make sure to test it in a slot this week in my weekly tourney and im sure it will be at least ok in the deck.

I doubt if it's any good in the deck. It's a decent effect, but it does nothing by itself( added to the big guys, that are alot of spells.)

It effect is nice, now you can reanimate a SSS EOT or during blockers step for an additional mana. So you could have reanimated it a turn earlier, blocked with it and pounded.

The spell is decent in alot decks, but the worst slot in the deck and probably be removed again for a better card.

BB

Aznopium
04-18-2008, 01:24 PM
thoughts on this card?
It might be a win more card.
pretty vanilla unless you already done damage.
So my own guess is no.

Knollspine Dragon
Red Rare 5RR Creature - Dragon 7/5

Flying
When Knollspine Dragon comes into play, you may discard your hand and draw cards equal to the damage dealt to target opponent this turn.

nodahero
04-18-2008, 03:00 PM
My thoughts... read the page before your post... We already commented on this card on the last page.

General consensus is very decent and seriusly test worthy unlike another card that was being disscussed.

rodgon666
04-19-2008, 02:16 AM
yet another first place win here at GE. pretty unusual wins though,

Round 1: Jerry with Belcher

2-1.

Round 2: Mini Scherer with BW creature control.

very easy 2-0

Round 3: ACE with RG Loam with countryside crusher

and easy 2-0

Round 4: Matt with Ichorid Combo

a very hard fought 2-0, he just didnt draw into the nuts game 1 and two extirpates sealed game 2.


another undefeated win ... more people need to play this in tournaments and post results. ^_^

4815162342
04-19-2008, 02:59 AM
I think that this latest tourney shows that the deck can win against combo. Jerry is a VERY competent Belcher player and I am a very competent Ichorid player. I mean after side boarding re-animator has a pretty decent match up versus combo. I agree more people need to play the deck in tourneys every where, and they need to post results. I plan on going with Rod to Pro-Tour Hollywood and will definitely run this deck in the Legacy side event.

Jaiminho
04-19-2008, 03:25 AM
Would be nice to see some well written description of the games, instead of only the results, so we know what your opponent did and what you could do to respond, on some decisive game actions.

4815162342
04-19-2008, 03:35 AM
Would be nice to see some well written description of the games, instead of only the results, so we know what your opponent did and what you could do to respond, on some decisive game actions.

Yeah would be nice, you can check the Ichorid thread for a description of the last round against me if you want.

Mr Wiggl3s
04-19-2008, 12:29 PM
Match ups:
Landstill

Belcher

Angel Stompy

Dragon Stompy

Vial Goblins
Pretty much auto win. very close to a bye. If the opposing goblin deck has a white splash it still in your favor.
MVP: Bogardan Hellkite
Side: Repeal for the crypts?

Ichorid

UG*(b/r/w) Threshold

Also, here is (IMO) the basic, must have parts of the deck


Rod's Reanimator

Spells:
4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
4x Careful Study
4x Brainstorm

Enchantments
4x Animate Dead

Creatures:
4x Putrid Imp
2x Oona's Prowler

4x Bogardan Hellkite
1x Simic Sky Swallower
1x Sundering Titan
1x Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1x Phantom Nishoba

Lands:
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea
4x Swamp
1x Island
Total: 49

Just me
04-20-2008, 07:43 AM
Why is Dark Ritual not a staple in this deck? I mean, turn 1 you can play a combination of;

Ritual --> Putrid Imp or Oona's Prowler (or Zombie Infestation if you would play that, or even Therapy yourself) and use the remaining mana for either Reanimate, Exhume or Animate Dead (depending on how much mana the discard effect has cost you). Assuming you had a fatty in hand as well.

That is a cardcombination of
1 Ritual
1 Discard effect (multiple options!)
1 Renanimate effect (multiple options!)
1 Fatty (multiple options!)

Looks very doable to me. It's also nice on turn 2. Ritual, Intuition, Reanimate. Allowing turn 1 to do stuff like Brainstorm, Thoughtseize, Imp, Study.

Willoe
04-20-2008, 08:10 AM
Why is Dark Ritual not a staple in this deck? I mean, turn 1 you can play a combination of;

Ritual --> Putrid Imp or Oona's Prowler (or Zombie Infestation if you would play that, or even Therapy yourself) and use the remaining mana for either Reanimate, Exhume or Animate Dead (depending on how much mana the discard effect has cost you). Assuming you had a fatty in hand as well.

That is a cardcombination of
1 Ritual
1 Discard effect (multiple options!)
1 Renanimate effect (multiple options!)
1 Fatty (multiple options!)

Looks very doable to me. It's also nice on turn 2. Ritual, Intuition, Reanimate. Allowing turn 1 to do stuff like Brainstorm, Thoughtseize, Imp, Study.
dark Ritual only feeds these combinations:

Imp + Animate Dead/Exhume
Oona's Prowler + Reanimate
Imp + Reanimate

Imp is in my deck played as a 4 of. I play with 3 Prowlers. Chances are to get one of those seven cards in my opening hand ALONG with a Dark Ritual, very small. After turn 1, they're useless, as you don't want to trade card disadvantage for tempo. The deck also gets a lot of card disadvantage which trades into tempo by reanimating a huge creature, I don't think we need any more. Dark Ritual has been tested, and the only place where it would do would be in monoblack reanimator, which is another thing. Oh, and monoblack reanimator sucks arse. Just so you know it.

Like you say yourself, it requires four cards to reanimate a creature turn 1 and swing on turn 2. Compare that to a four card combo that does not necessarily win you the game.

So Dark Ritual = Speed but large losses because of even more card disadvantage. Don't play it. Play Rodgon666's list. The only thing you should ever change is # of Intuition, # of Oona's Prowler and which fatties you should play. But you don't have to change that, it works fine right now.

Elficidium
04-20-2008, 08:25 AM
Match ups:
Vial Goblins
Pretty much auto win. very close to a bye. If the opposing goblin deck has a white splash it still in your favor.
MVP: All.
Side: Repeal for the crypts?


I'd seriously like some explanation for this and real playtesting results.
Current Goblin lists have Warren weirding for your fat guys and gempalms/fanatics for your discard-outlets. This combined with therapy/thoughtseize/leylines from the SB makes it hard to believe for this matchup to be a "bye".

nodahero
04-20-2008, 12:22 PM
I have yet to play against a goblin deck that ran all of what you just suggested would kill this deck.

As for the possibility of those cards... yes they are all options but they are not generally all together as your post seemed (to me) to imply. I'll takle each of your arguments one at a time.

For the Warren's Weirding we have little midgets that are just fine biting it such as imp and prowler if you are compitent enough to play around the weirding. If as you suggest they run that with gemplam and fanatics take into account the odds of them having weirding and either fanatic or gempalm. If we assume 4 weirding and 6 in some combination of fanatic and gempalm then if you work out the math the odds of them having both of those and us not having double midget and fatty then you will notice that those odds are very very low particulary if you wana take think about them having weirding in hand and ripping a gempalm which buys us another free turn unless its after turn 4 at which point we have gotten at least dome decent return off our cards.

As for the sideboard arguement the therapy/thoughtseize is not really that good against us due to the high level of redundancy we have. My specific build runs 15 grave outlets (counting intuition as a 3 of), 12 reanimation spells, and between 8-10 fatties. Our levels of redundancy far out do the goblin players.

As for the leyline unless they get it in their opening hand we are usually able to get a nice bit of pressure on them before it even shows up making it pointless. IF they get it in their opening grip then we have to beat with imps and prowlers until we hit repeal mana.

Mr Wiggl3s
04-20-2008, 01:28 PM
I'd seriously like some explanation for this and real playtesting results.
Current Goblin lists have Warren weirding for your fat guys and gempalms/fanatics for your discard-outlets. This combined with therapy/thoughtseize/leylines from the SB makes it hard to believe for this matchup to be a "bye".

The gob decks i play against are red/white splash, i haven't played any r/b gob decks...

Our discard outlets are just that, outlets, they are just here as a chunk blocker or discarding.

Basically, they wont be able to keep up due to the Hellkites, among the others. If they do run Warren, animate dead the killed Hellkite for 5 more damage spread out.

Im thinking about running this setup:


// Lands
4 [TE] Swamp
1 [PT] Island
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [RAV] Watery Grave
4 [U] Underground Sea

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Oona's Prowler
4 [TO] Putrid Imp

4 [TSP] Bogardan Hellkite
2 [LE] Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 [DIS] Tidespout Tyrant
1 [DIS] Simic Sky Swallower
1 [FD] Bringer of the Blue Dawn
1 [JU] Phantom Nishoba

// Spells
4 [US] Exhume
4 [TE] Reanimate
4 [4E] Animate Dead

4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Careful Study
3 [TE] Intuition
2 [LRW] Ponder
Comments?

And anyone notice how Nishomba is the ultimate Jitte stopper?

Willoe
04-20-2008, 04:13 PM
To say that the Goblins matchup is a joke... Now THAT is a joke!

All say "ooh, I'll beat Goblins any day". Fuck no, you don't. Goblins is still a very, very competitive deck, did anyone notice that it's a DTB?

I have no problems with people that say their goblins matchups are favorable, but to call a DTB matchup a joke... Priceless.

Even though you can reanimate your hellkites, goblins will - and does it frequent according to my testing against the deck - kick your butt if they remove your critter. When you reanimate, you have three possibiliets:

Reanimate it and lose 8 life which eventually will cost you the game.

Animate-Dead it a 4/5, and therefore it becomes a five turn clock and then virtually giving the goblins player a timewalk.

Exhuming it only to see a SGC or a Matron enter play. Even though you can kill it, you will most likely lose from their CiP abilties.

All in all, Goblins isn't a joke.

With W or G splash, the matchup might be very close, but with B splash, they gain Earwig Squad to remove your silver bullets and Warren Wierding, a tutor target to smash your dudes with while they smash you.

So no, the goblins matchup is NOT a joke. It's a matchup that - like EVERY other deck - shouldn't be taken too unserious or even underestimated.

Just my 2 cents.

rleader
04-20-2008, 04:41 PM
I have no problems with people that say their goblins matchups are favorable, but to call a DTB matchup a joke... Priceless.

AFAIK, DTB status doesn't make any statement whatsoever about a deck's relative power level vs. any and all challengers.

I think it's safe to say that most Goblin players would rather not see a turn two Phantom Nishoba. If Goblins are a significant part of a metagame, Reanimator has far better sideboard cards against it than Goblins has against Reanimator.

Willoe
04-20-2008, 05:03 PM
I was talking about most people's current feelings about their matchups against goblins. Is it only me who thinks that people are too arrogant when calling the top decks of legacy as jokes?

And so sorry if I misexplained myself, but you got to agree that it's too lame to call goblins a joke unless your deck is certainly anti goblins. And it isn't.

Regarding DTB Status: It proves a lot if you know (and I bet you do) what DTB status really means. It's not just random jank that becomes DTB's.

Phantom Nishoba? It's a good creature and all that, but do it frequently see play every game against goblins? (I think you can answer that question yourself)

If you want to strengthen your goblins (or other aggro matchup) you should arrange your creature base like this: 4 Bogardan Hellkite 4 Phantom Nishoba, 1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath, 1 Garza Zol, Plague Queen. It's the creature base that I like the most. No STP dodging is compensated by massive lifegain, 1 random bikini chick that dodges all other removal and 1 random card engine, and 4 burn creatures. I think that is pretty solid.

Please explain to me what AFAIK means. I don't like too long abbrevations, and especially not if they're flamebait/flaming. But since I don't know what has been abbrevated, I can't tell (obv.).

rleader
04-20-2008, 05:15 PM
AFAIK = As far as I know


it's too lame to call goblins a joke unless your deck is certainly anti goblins. And it isn't.

It's a deck that certainly doesn't have too much trouble casting Engineered Plague for starters and has a mana base that doesn't fold to wasteland/port too easily.

Hellkite puts Goblins in the position of having a ringleader or else and it's not going to be able to cast one and while guarding against reanimator (by pinning down land, etc.). If I were playing goblins myself, I'd prefer to run into a lot of decks before I met up with this one. :shrug:

Willoe
04-20-2008, 06:10 PM
Thanks! :D

And it's a deck that draws Engineered Plague consistently, and a deck that resolves it at turn 3. The problem with E-plague is that it's rarely enough. And both W and G splash can deal with it by using grip or disenchant. Heck, even the seals will do.

It's true that the Hellkite and the Nishoba causes several problems for the goblins player, but who's the actual aggressor in this match? Reanimator has very, very powerful threats but hardly any answers. Goblins beat you by swarming you with incredible tempo advantage. With the recent lists, goblins has become a lot stronger. Warren Wierding is a just powerful answer as reanimator's threats are. Sure, reanimator can just sacrifice an imp, but that imp can easily be burned away by other targets, namely Sharpshooter and Incinerator.

I'm not saying that reanimator does not have any chance, trust me, it has - a big one in fact - to beat goblins. It's just a match that should be taken very serious if you want to win. Simply because goblins is a good deck. Reanimator's a good deck too, and the two deck's - solely in my experience - matchup very even.

Also, goblins with white splash can use Mirror Entity (matron target) to deal with damage. Since the entity can be vialed in too, you can get a nasty surprise by watching the small green men grow to say 4/4's. Just so you know it :wink:

rodgon666
04-20-2008, 06:56 PM
how often is a ringleader going to be in the GY in turn two?... hahaha...

the big difference in power is not relative. you might be playing the deck wrong or the list you play isnt really optimal. a turn 2 critter on your side will disrupt the goblin player in more ways than just killing their dudes. after a 5/5 hits play and already dealt dmage to them, or a 7/10 destroyed their lands, or 7/7 lifegainer hits play they have to go on the defensive. if i get a titan turn two, you are losing your lands, specially in any of the 2 color builds. then tell me... how does a goblin deck win without lands?

Warren Weirding does not mean i loose any more than i loose to decks with 4 swords and and 4 innocent bloods and 4 diabolic edicts. it just means you have to play a good strategy, if you know wha your going against you should know what to keep and what to mull. my deck overpowers goblins, not alot of decks can deal with a consistent disruption of their strategies while geting beat down by fatties. sorry but it just doesnt happen. if you spend your first turns waiting to use warren weirdings on my creautures youll just get fucked up by their abilities, or the weinies and a jitte.

and i dont feel like and arrogant bastard when i say its pretty much a bye and they are a joke. maybe their not a joke matchup versus most decks but it is against this deck.

just like this deck i a joke versus quick combo 75% of the time.

and yeah ive tested alot, our rescent little deck tests came up with that out of 12 game 4 preside and 8 post side against the listed BR gobos, reanimator won 7 with one going to goblins by a close margin. all the others were just easy.

sorry if your offended by that man, it just is what it is. hahahaha

There are not one, but actually two different shift keys on the keyboard. One is next to the "z" the other next to the "/." Start using them or keep on getting warnings (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7455). - Bardo

Team-Hero
04-20-2008, 07:14 PM
The 10 creatures that the reanimator deck reanimates wrecks goblins.

Phanthom gives life.
Akroma becomes a clock + piledriver killer
Hellkites just clear the board
Blue dawn gives as much tempo to you as a ringleader to them
SSSwallower isn't as good as Akroma but at least is a beater they can't block
Titan kills their lands

If the reanimator deck was entering a tournament where the meta was 80%+ goblins, I would consider adding a Thunder Dragon. Thunder Dragon used to be a backbreaker against goblins before goblins became the non-dominant deck in tournaments.

Michael Keller
04-20-2008, 07:56 PM
yet another first place win here at GE. pretty unusual wins though,

Round 1: Jerry with Belcher

2-1.

Round 2: Mini Scherer with BW creature control.

very easy 2-0

Round 3: ACE with RG Loam with countryside crusher

and easy 2-0

Round 4: Matt with Ichorid Combo

a very hard fought 2-0, he just didnt draw into the nuts game 1 and two extirpates sealed game 2.


another undefeated win ... more people need to play this in tournaments and post results. ^_^

I think you'll need to be more specific in your wins and a little more clear on what your opponents were playing in their decks. A deck that could be considered "b/w creature control" should easily knock off your reanimated dudes, especially when we have no idea what defensive tools your using to combat them. Lord knows you can win with a good top-deck, but I'd be interested to know exactly what you were playing.

rodgon666
04-20-2008, 11:20 PM
ok i didnt have time write a detailed report before i guess i should take some time to do it right now.

Round 1: Jerry Dunham with B/R/G belcher

Game 1 he kills me second turn and i just have no hope of winning. he makes 18 tokens and swings.

Game 2 he mulls i keep a stifle and an extirpate hand. i stifle his mox imprint and get a hellkite turn 3. he seems to struggle shaping his hand and a second stifle and swings from the dragon win the game.

game 3 he plays a turn 1 confidant, i get a turn 2 hellkite and reanimate his confidant. ( risky yeah... but i needed that stifle ) he doesnt go off the next turn i flip a sundering and take 8 then draw a stifle. then next run he tries to go off i stifle the Empty the Warrens storm and luckily i dont reveal another critter and win off the another hellkite.

ROUND 2: Mini Scherer with BW control ( coffers and staff of domination stuff)
Game 1: a turn 3 sundering titan takes his lands after he taps for a staff, he doesnt recover fast enough and i kill him easily.

Game 2: he mulls to a leyline, but he only has 1 land. i get an active jitte off an imp and beat him down before he gets the mana to cast humility. ( show and tell is bad agaisnt this matchup... they run humility...)

ROUND 3: AAron AKA ACE. with R/G loam with countryside crusher.

game 1 a turn 3 SSS and a turn 4 SSS kill him, before he does anything ^_^

Game 2 he gets the early beats and gets a crypt to slow me down, he has a goyf and 2 mongrels, and i get a hellkite and some imps fearies. he beats me to killing distance but i echoing truth his mongrels and chump his goyf with n oonas then swing for lethal.

Roud 4: MAtt mendez with Ichorid Combo.

( directly from the Ichorid Thread from Matts prespective. )

Game 1: I see absolutly nothing with dredge. We have a pretty good game but he gets me down to 2 and has a SSS and a putrid imp in play versus my 1 Narcomoeba. Oh yeah also I only got 1 Cabal Therapy wich I correctly used to strip away 2 brainstorms in his hand leaving him with only 1 card (a land) Also I have to mention that I did get one of my own Hellkite in play bringing the game very close in my favor. I just ran out of steam :(

Game 2: I mull down to 5 and get pwnt by Extripate nabbing Stinkweed in response to my breakthrough and Extripate grabbing Bridges. I then get murdered by 2 Hellkite. (not my own mind you)



hope this helps ^_^.

also the i was trying a different creature base again since i was running the quickens in the jitte spot. ( never saw them... but i still think they are a good choice to test. ^_^ )

4x SSS
4x Hellkites
3x Sundering Titan

Knowing that no matter what they do the creature will affect the game state makes me smile inside. in a meta full of 3 color decks Titan shines like no other, and since im not running intuition more copies of a creature is logical.

I still believe that the intuition toolbox is way stronger IMO, but this quicken/ jitte version is my answer tweak to my meta to make the deck evolve with the hate.

Willoe
04-21-2008, 09:09 AM
just like this deck i a joke versus quick combo 75% of the time.

Huh? What?

Not that I don't agree, I simply don't understand? What do you mean?

Anyway, nice playing at that tournament.

@Quicken: I've tested it a bit, and it isn't that good. It converts mana into surprise and stack manipulation. Almost always, you can't get a good ability and it often ends as Careful Study fodder if you haven't found reanimation targets yet. Don't play it. According to my testing, it does not fit into the deck at all.


Thunder Dragon used to be a backbreaker against goblins before goblins became the non-dominant deck in tournaments.

Weren't all cards from Starter, Portal 1, 2 and 3 banned back then?

enemyofarsenic
04-21-2008, 09:14 AM
http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/latest/dl33_3bx8ag0.jpg

I really think Turn To Mist is a great addition to this deck, such a utility card...

Just me
04-21-2008, 09:35 AM
Why do you think it's good?

It only works really well with Bogardan Hellkite as far as your own creatures are concerned. The rest of the utility is just tricks with damage on stack or fogging 1 creature for a turn. Maybe, just maybe if you add 4 Angel of Despair to abuse the CIP of Angel + Dragon more consistently?

enemyofarsenic
04-21-2008, 10:04 AM
Turn To Mist uses:

-Replay/Triggers "comes into play" abilities, even "leaves play" abilities (sundering titan etc.)
-Saves Fattie from removal
-Clears the way for your fatties to attack
-(Im not sure at this one) lets your fattie attack on your turn and defend on the opponents turn (attack at your turn, turn to mist it and it gets removed and brought back as a new object thus "untapped" for blocking purposes on the opponents turn after yours)
-Stalling tactics
-removes 1 token permanently
etc... etc... etc...

I believe this is far more superior than Imp's Mischief...

dahcmai
04-21-2008, 10:24 AM
If that's all you want it for then just play Mask of the Mimic. It does the same things you just mentioned except costs only one :u:. Well, aside from not hitting opponents stuff.

Zach Tartell
04-21-2008, 12:09 PM
If that's all you want it for then just play Mask of the Mimic. It does the same things you just mentioned except costs only one :u:. Well, aside from not hitting opponents stuff.

Not at all hoss. I mean, that's what I thought when I read it, then read it again.

"As an additional cost to play, sacrifice a creature. Search your library for a card with the same name as target nontoken creature and put that card into play. Then shuffle your library."

Not nearly the same thing.

nodahero
04-21-2008, 01:45 PM
To be honest that seems like it may actually have decent synergy with the deck (Mask of the Mimic). It thins your deck and allows you to get more of what you want into your grave for reanimation. If it was to be used it would definetly require a retooling of the creature base although it seems decent to me. We could up the titan count in an expensive mana part of the world, we could run AoDs to more effectively control stax by blowing up certain pieces. We could abuse Hellkite more easily in a meta filled with puny things such as goblins or even eva-green sans there goyf consistently. Just throwing that out there as food for thought. I might go give it a test run.

Zach Tartell
04-21-2008, 02:45 PM
No, I still think you're reading it incorrectly "As an additional cost to play Mask of the Mimic, sacrifice a creature." The way the card is worded makes you think you could just sacrifice your guy in response to a spell and dig out another one (and I think that'd be hot). Instead you sacrifice a perfectly good creature to find a copy of another target creature.

It's like expecting to throw it in Scarlet Johansen, only to be stuck on a third date with Madeline Albright.

rodgon666
04-21-2008, 03:25 PM
ok to put it in simple words, it does this:

you play an imp
you play reanimate a hellkite..
you play mask of the mimic sacrificing your imp
then you target your hellkite and find another hellkite.

( it doesnt replace the creature you sacrificed with a copy of itself, you have to have 2 creatures in play for it to work efficiently)

in the mirror it would be awesome, hahaha

but in real terms its not really that great, i was thinking that the slot could be filled by the black fling in the new set.

1B
sorcery
as an additional cost sac a creature
target player takes damage equal to the sacirficed creatures power and you gain that much life.

too bad its a asorcery.. but worth the 10 life swing at least right? hahaha

Team-Hero
04-21-2008, 10:21 PM
Weren't all cards from Starter, Portal 1, 2 and 3 banned back then?

No, it managed to squeeze right on time before Threshold began to dominate. It was in the Reanimator to counter Goblins, Mongooses, Elves, and Fish. The only reason it got cut was because of the Hellkites. If it weren't for them, it would probably still be in the deck.

nodahero
04-21-2008, 10:46 PM
Reading comprehension FTL... Although I gotta say turning an Imp into a hellkite inresponse to swordsing one is kinda hot...

enemyofarsenic
04-21-2008, 11:13 PM
http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/SHM/EN/Card159400.jpg


The Black Fling.

Willoe
04-22-2008, 06:57 AM
@Nodahero: What?

I don't understand half of what people say in this thread.

@Team-Hero: Ahh, I see. Good point :) Even though I think that Thunder Dragon is a bit more useful most of the time, the times that I reanimate it, it's against annoying decks that doesn't rely on creature damage. Bad timing, that's all.

Rite of Consumption should in my opinion not be run. The deck's already pretty tight and I think that Rite of Consumption is win-more that also can lead you into card disadvantage. Remember, the cost is payed at announcement. So the opponent can gain card advantage if they counter a spell or i.e. vial a true believer into play (Death and Taxes, anyone?). So I wouldn't play it. Same is true for Turn To mist. They're playable in pauper and standard, MAYBE extended, but not this. Although Rite of Consumption virtually gives you a time walk, it isn't worth the even further card disadvantage. Also, the creature in most reanimator decks has a maximum of 7 power (sundering titan) so you can "only" deal 7 damage and gain 7 life for 1B, two cards plus the reanimation spell and the reanimation outlet. That's bad. Fling is MUCH better (obviously because it runs at instant speed), but as far as I know, we can't support a UBr mana base and splashing R just for Fling would be suboptimal.

nodahero
04-22-2008, 10:35 AM
The post I made at quarter to 1 yesterday was with me misunderstanding Mask of the Mimic very poorly. The post that I made at quarter to 10 was my admitance of this mistake. I then went on to say that If say your oppoent was going to off your hellkite and you have your oppoent to with like 10 life you could play mask of the mimic sacing like a putrid imp or prowler to copy your hellkite before it is off'd giving you a threat that they again must answer. The ideal situation assuming your oppoent has a removal spell and you have Mask however is to simply have to fatties in play so you can sac the targeted one to the mimic to copy the other fatty... None of these uses seem overly abusive but they are options.

rodgon666
04-22-2008, 04:39 PM
the creature in most reanimator decks has a maximum of 7 power (sundering titan) so you can "only" deal 7 damage and gain 7 life for 1B, two cards plus the reanimation spell and the reanimation outlet. That's bad. Fling is MUCH better (obviously because it runs at instant speed), but as far as I know, we can't support a UBr mana base and splashing R just for Fling would be suboptimal.

only a 14 damage life swing? hahaha. i dont think its that bad, true... if it was an instant then it would be a 4 off in this deck. i like the card though, but also the fact that you can only deal the damage to the player kinda sucks... mmm..

well have to keep looking cause just ike you mentioned, adding R for fling is not really an option. i wouldnt splash yet another color for a single card.

enemyofarsenic
04-22-2008, 10:07 PM
Splash Green for Tarmogoyf hehehe...

rodgon666
04-23-2008, 03:51 AM
i will never...EVER!!! become a number like the rest of the deck builders that put Goyf or counterbalance/Top to every deck they play. First its incredibly dumb, and second whats the fun in that? wheres the creativity?

Benie Bederios
04-23-2008, 08:27 AM
i will never...EVER!!! become a number like the rest of the deck builders that put Goyf or counterbalance/Top to every deck they play. First its incredibly dumb, and second whats the fun in that? wheres the creativity?

Where is the creativity in playing a deck full of big creatures, discard outlets and reanimation spells :wink:.

On a serious note. I do agree that Tarmogoyf isn't that hot in here. I think the biggest problem this deck has is combo and post-board hate( I have jet to loose a game against this deck playing Fetchland Tendrils). Goyf doesn't do anything against combo, it rarely speeds up your clock, it doesn't hit the turn it comes in to play. Against post-board hate Goyf isn't that hot either. You will be playing really bad aggro. In other words not worth it. If you don't have anything helpfull to say, please just don't say anything.

BB

Thehunter820
04-23-2008, 09:53 AM
I made the reanimation-ish demigod that I was talking about, here's the post if anyone's interesting

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?p=226931#post226931

I'm considering testing out some more reanimation effects in it if anyone can alter the list to that style.

Mr Wiggl3s
04-23-2008, 02:05 PM
Where is the creativity in playing a deck full of big creatures, discard outlets and reanimation spells :wink:.

On a serious note. I do agree that Tarmogoyf isn't that hot in here. I think the biggest problem this deck has is combo and post-board hate( I have jet to loose a game against this deck playing Fetchland Tendrils). Goyf doesn't do anything against combo, it rarely speeds up your clock, it doesn't hit the turn it comes in to play. Against post-board hate Goyf isn't that hot either. You will be playing really bad aggro. In other words not worth it. If you don't have anything helpfull to say, please just don't say anything.

BB

This deck works well with goyf

Exhume a hellkite
kill goyf
ranimate goyf

win

TheKingslayer
04-23-2008, 09:09 PM
It seems to me that Magic deck building has become some sort of art form where the goal is to not have to put tarmogoyf in your deck(good fuckin' job, Wizards.)

I, personally, like to treat Tarmogoyf like AIDS. You see, it is very similar to AIDS. Everybody has it...except me. It seems like an alluring, extremely hot super model. Make that an alluring, extremely hot supermodel that wants to have sex with you for 50 bucks a pop. Well, that's not so bad, but you see... she's got AIDS. 50 dollars to get infected with AIDS? I would rather not use Tarmogoyf and not get AIDS.

Team-Hero
04-23-2008, 09:58 PM
It seems to me that Magic deck building has become some sort of art form where the goal is to not have to put tarmogoyf in your deck(good fuckin' job, Wizards.)

I, personally, like to treat Tarmogoyf like AIDS. You see, it is very similar to AIDS. Everybody has it...except me. It seems like an alluring, extremely hot super model. Make that an alluring, extremely hot supermodel that wants to have sex with you for 50 bucks a pop. Well, that's not so bad, but you see... she's got AIDS. 50 dollars to get infected with AIDS? I would rather not use Tarmogoyf and not get AIDS.

LoL, off topic but I agree. I much rather just add cards that take advantage of the fact that my opponent plays Tarmogoyf. My favorite card to deal with him is Submerge. It's such a good card that I have it main deck on most of my decks.

rodgon666
04-24-2008, 04:25 AM
So i m glad to hear that the general consensus is that goyf is not for this deck, please im hoping someone doesnt think Counter/top fits... hahahha

ok so after some consideration i have decided to play this deck at the Pro tour Hollywood legacy event. Ill be running the Jitte version, seeing that im sure ill be seeing alot of hate for Ichorid and Thresh.

ill be testing some new tech in the side this week and next and ill make sure to show the results of it here.

Gambit
04-24-2008, 12:12 PM
ok so after some consideration i have decided to play this deck at the Pro tour Hollywood legacy event.


I'll see ya in the finals again....different outcome this time!

rodgon666
04-24-2008, 12:28 PM
hahaha, well see well see. Im one lucky bastard after all.

rodgon666
04-27-2008, 03:38 AM
this friday i decided to let another one of my fellow magic players, a 13 year old play the deck to see how well he came out in the tournament, just for kicks, i didnt expect him to do so well, but he came out an surprised me.

it was a 5 round tournament that night, i played next to him on his first round he was playing against one of its worst possible matchups, Ichorid.

he lost...

( in my mind i was like dude... you loose anyways if you dont know the deck in and out against that.. hahaha)

and to tell the truth i didnt expect much more from him the rest of the night...

now, for the rest of the night he was on fire!, he would be done with his matches in a good 10 minutes and then came to tell me my deck was cheating... in a good way for him.

he didnt loose any other games that night and ended up in third place due to tie breakers. being behind in points only to the one guy goign undefeated ( unfortunately not me this time hahahaha, i was playing his BW coffers/ Staff of Domination deck )

this just goes to show that this deck can be run by anyone... literally anyone competent to play tournament magic, and do good.


now... can we get some more people to play this in tournaments...

you wont regret it. ^_^

Mr Wiggl3s
04-27-2008, 03:41 PM
I played it yesterday, and i had a problem with consistency... (and im not a good player)

First game a guy was playing a Negator accel deck.

I won round one with a reanimated hellkite turn 2.
Lost round 2
Lost round 3 because he had some stupid sac 5 perm, target player loses 5 life card

0-1

Green Splash Goblins... Wasn't a really serious deck, i won 2-0 pretty easily

1-1

Fairy stompy or something like that

I won round 1 with a exhumed SSS turn 2 and a hellkite turn 3
I lost next round due to all the counters
Lost next round due to waste's and counters

1-2

This game was against an old friend of mine, he was playing Vail Goblins. Also, he is a very good goblins player

I reanimated the hellkite 2 times in 1 round i think but i used exhume and he brought back a ringleader to get more gobs back.. I didn't really think that through

Overall 1-4 in rounds 4-10 in games

I didn't use intuition but once throughout the whole tourey. I think im going to take out 2 for 2 more ponders and 1 more basic

rodgon666
04-27-2008, 04:03 PM
im not sure whta your decklist looks like... but if it has ponders then it has some cards i wouldnt ... heres my current decklist since its been like 5 pages since i mentioned it.

Rod's Reanimator
by Rodrigo Gonzalez
60 cards.

Spells:
4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
4x Careful Study
4x Brainstorm
1x Show and tell

Artifacts
3x Jitte

Enchantments
4x Animate Dead

Creatures:
4x Putrid Imp
4x Oona's Prowler

4x Bogardan Hellkite
4x Simic Sky Swallower
3x Sundering Titan

Lands:
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea
5x Swamp
1x Island

a simpler creature base simplifies your selection and strategy.

Mr Wiggl3s
04-27-2008, 05:38 PM
This is what i was running yesterday

Im also thinkin of takin out the Akroma, it was ridiculous to put it in there.

// Lands
4 [TE] Swamp (4)
1 [PT] Island (4)

4 [U] Underground Sea
2 [RAV] Watery Grave

3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Oona's Prowler
4 [TO] Putrid Imp

4 [TSP] Bogardan Hellkite
2 [DS] Sundering Titan
1 [JU] Phantom Nishoba
1 [DIS] Simic Sky Swallower
1 [FD] Bringer of the Blue Dawn
1 [LE] Akroma, Angel of Wrath

// Spells
4 [US] Exhume
4 [TE] Reanimate
4 [4E] Animate Dead

4 [OD] Careful Study
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [TE] Intuition
2 [LRW] Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [US] Show and Tell
SB: 3 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth

I have a legit side, just forgot the other cards

enemyofarsenic
04-29-2008, 08:19 AM
Any testings being done with the new shadowmoor cards with this deck?

rodgon666
04-29-2008, 03:59 PM
the black fling is too slow. it does add the last couple of damage and some life gain, but without it being an instant its conditional.

the dragon is funny, he works well. you end up drawing not as many cards as you might have thought but he does beat for alot in the air too. still not sure if its better than GARZA or SSS since you have to run 4 to make him an efficient card draw.




one card that a friend of mine brought up and that ill be more than happy to testify to its meaty goodness is one card that no one would have expected to be good in this deck, or any other deck, its an equipment. that works better than jitte in my opinion and in testing.

any guesses?

ill post it later on tonight and let you guys try to think it through.

hahaha

Nightmare
04-29-2008, 04:05 PM
one card that a friend of mine brought up and that ill be more than happy to testify to its meaty goodness is one card that no one would have expected to be good in this deck, or any other deck, its an equipment. that works better than jitte in my opinion and in testing.

any guesses?

ill post it later on tonight and let you guys try to think it through.

hahaha

I'll bet a dollar that it's Deathrender.

Michael Keller
04-29-2008, 04:10 PM
Aisling Leprechaun, perhaps?

Jaynel
04-29-2008, 04:10 PM
Mask of Memory doesn't seem terrible.

Nightmare
04-29-2008, 04:10 PM
Telling you, it's Deathrender.

Zach Tartell
04-29-2008, 04:16 PM
Telling you, it's Deathrender.

You ever get that thing going with Greater Good in type 4? It's nasty.

rodgon666
04-29-2008, 04:22 PM
Nightmare. good guess. but nope.

4 casting cost is too prohibitive.

any more guesses?


hahahhaa ( evil laughter )

Nightmare
04-29-2008, 04:25 PM
Nightmare. good guess. but nope.

4 casting cost is too prohibitive.

any more guesses?


hahahhaa ( evil laughter )I suppose if it isn't that, the only other logical choice would be O-Naginata.

rleader
04-29-2008, 04:42 PM
I suppose if it isn't that, the only other logical choice would be O-Naginata.

Skullclamp, duh.

I'm guessing Lightning Greaves, but it's mostly win more in that it doesn't do much unless your deck is firing on all cylinders. OTOH, it's winning more very quickly.

rodgon666
04-29-2008, 04:47 PM
No no and no...

hahahaha


thats the thing. its not so obvious.


any more guesses? hahaha

Nightmare
04-29-2008, 04:52 PM
No no and no...

hahahaha


thats the thing. its not so obvious.


any more guesses? hahaha
Which means it sucks. Especially if you're running 4x SSS. I'm done with this game.

Nihil Credo
04-29-2008, 04:54 PM
Especially if you're running 4x SSS.
Ronin Warclub FTW!

Willoe
04-29-2008, 05:17 PM
Obsidian Battle-Axe with Boldwyr Heavyweights and Hamletback Goliath!

Actually, Obsidian Battle-Axe and Zhang-Fei, Fierce Warrior is pretty scary.

rodgon666
04-29-2008, 05:41 PM
hahaha, nightmare, done already?. booo.


oh well...

no ones got it yet. ill wait a little more before posting this new addition and the decklist t go with it. ^_^

THEchubbymuffin
04-29-2008, 09:09 PM
I would guess it to be Mask of Memory, or maybe Fireshrieker since nobody said it, Umbral Mantle from Shadowmoor? I definately am interested into what it is. I'm just hoping its not the Sword, Shield, and Helm of Kaaldra.

nodahero
04-29-2008, 09:22 PM
Actually I'm gonna go with something even more generic. I am gonna put money on bone splitter. Its cheap. Its efficent. Needle does ALMOST nothing to it because if it is in play it is prolly already equipped. Not to mention wasting a slot in your deck to stop splitter seems rather foolish even if it is amazing at making our midgets vishish.

enemyofarsenic
04-29-2008, 11:01 PM
Is the equipment from shadowmoor?

GiantGrowth
04-29-2008, 11:30 PM
I'm getting a friend into tournament magic (from casual) and he always played with fatties and such, so I'm hooking him up with a decklist of reanimator. so rod, can you post the SB to the list you posted just awhile ago?

Semenelin
04-30-2008, 12:21 AM
anyone mentioned Whispersilk Cloak yet?
:tongue:

THEchubbymuffin
04-30-2008, 12:24 AM
Whispersilk Cloak is way too slow for legacy. Just my opinion.

raharu
04-30-2008, 12:32 AM
Sword of Light and Shadow, i.e. protection from Swords, Black removal, and recuring threats/ the ability to keep fat out of the GY if dealing with Extirpate.

nodahero
04-30-2008, 01:04 AM
come on rod... its 12:03... whats the new equipment... I want something to think about while trying to sleep other than a 3 some with Akroma of Angel and Fury... gah... your so mean to us Rod... (sarcasm)

rodgon666
04-30-2008, 01:21 AM
hahaha.

ok ok..

here goes.

think about it very carefuly before you discredit it. since it does alot for the consistency of beaters and extra effects.

GRAFTED WARGEAR.

3

equip cost = 0

equipped creature gets +3/+2 and when it gets removed sacrifice the creature.

imps become 4/3 or 5/4
oonas become 6/3

and all the fatties get huge!!! plus un equip a dragon to use him again.

in essenc i noticed that this card is more efficient than jitte for two reasons.

1- it act right away as you play it, no equip costs to use it.
2- it kills your critters when you need it to die to rinse and reuse.

jitte... play it turn two use turn three.

GW.... play it turn three after playing something else turn 2.

it cant be just me that sees the greatness of this over jitte...

Pango
04-30-2008, 04:01 AM
Hy Guys, this is my List:

42
4 Careful Study (no comment^^)
4 Putrid Imp (no comment^^)
4 Hapless Researcher (works with vault, sure - can be oonas prowler)

4 Bogardan Hellkite (no comment^^)
4 Blazing Archon (vs gobbo, ichorid, else..)
2 Phantom Nishoba (vs burn, gobbo, aggro...)

4 Reanimate (no comment^^)
4 Exhume (no comment^^)
4 Animate Dead (no comment^^)

4 Echoing Truth (helps vs. combo, ichorid,aggro, i think vs. everything)
4 Lim Duls Vault (nice card - really! searchs you the card you need)


18
4 Chrome Mox (nice vs. moon magus, supports a fast show and tell etc.)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Watery Grave
3 Swamp
1 Island

SB:
4 Stifle (combo)
4 Extirpate (ichorid)
3 Show and Tell (vs. crypt, leyline, counter, etc.)
3 Chill (vs burn and gobbos)
1 Phantom Nishoba (vs burn, gobbo, aggro...)


It is a different list, but its funny to play, what do you think?

greetings
marc

Willoe
04-30-2008, 07:11 AM
I don't really think it would do. Here's a couple of reasons:

Hapless Researcher only discards one card in total. THat's very bad, although the card draw is pretty sweet. Oona's Prowler does also beat face, which is huge. But the biggest plus the prowler has a multiple discard effect. Oona's Prowler > Hapless Researcher.

4 Archon's won't do. 1 won't do, either. You should play with drawing engines like Garza Sol, Bringer of the Blue Dawn and stuff so you can more easily into bogardan hellkite which should do the aggro job for you.

"unkillable" creatures kicks ass. The red Akroma is my MVP, but more people like the white one the best.

So far, you should exchange prowlers for researchers, archons for 1 garza sol, 1 bringer of the blue dawn, 1 knollspine dragon (yes, it's very, very good) and/or 1 mindleech mass. Furthermore, unless your meta is packed with burn, your rest two creatures should be red akroma and white akroma or even red akroma and SSS.

Echoing Truth MB is pretty strange IMO. If you play repeal, you can even draw a card. That's better.

And don't you think Intuition is better than Lim-Dul's Vault? Life loss can actually matter with reanimate and fetchlands.

Pltnmngl
04-30-2008, 09:37 AM
hahaha.

ok ok..

here goes.

think about it very carefuly before you discredit it. since it does alot for the consistency of beaters and extra effects.

GRAFTED WARGEAR.

3

equip cost = 0

equipped creature gets +3/+2 and when it gets removed sacrifice the creature.

imps become 4/3 or 5/4
oonas become 6/3

and all the fatties get huge!!! plus un equip a dragon to use him again.

in essenc i noticed that this card is more efficient than jitte for two reasons.

1- it act right away as you play it, no equip costs to use it.
2- it kills your critters when you need it to die to rinse and reuse.

jitte... play it turn two use turn three.

GW.... play it turn three after playing something else turn 2.

it cant be just me that sees the greatness of this over jitte...

I understand it, but aren't people running Jitte for the utility and flexibility, rather than just the combat power? Not to mention you can't really compete with Tarmo (even with GW) until you have a fattie.

Plus, don't you run enough copies of necessary creatures to make running this a bit redundant. (I'm not completely against it, but I really need to see a tested list.)

Team-Hero
04-30-2008, 12:08 PM
The Grafted Wargear is an alternate (and easier on the budget) to the Jitte. The Jitte is still useful because of its many abilities, but the Wargear sacrifices the ability to remove creatures or gain life for the purpose of being one turn faster in the smashing face spectrum.

In addition, it turns your reanimate spells into 5 dmg (and untap the creature).

At worst, it lets the imps race the opponent better... maybe even trade with a Goyf *gasp*

Nightmare
04-30-2008, 12:17 PM
GRAFTED WARGEAR
Yeah, I was right. It sucks. Seriously, you run 4 reanimation targets that can't use it at all, and you're paying :3: to make your three turn clock a... three turn clock? For the same three mana you could use O-Naginata and give them trample, at least.

I still like Deathrender. At least it goes "My Imp becomes an 8/8 untargetable monstrosity."

rodgon666
04-30-2008, 12:33 PM
hahaha.

see i knew this was the type of response i would get.

test it in your builds before casting it off, the shear power and utility of knowing you can re reanimate a critter almost at will makes this soooo powerful!

ok... true you loose the life gain and versatilty of the jittes extra abilities, thats quite true, but it makes up for it in speed and a more synergy oriented abiliity with the rest of your deck.

so trust me it doesnt suck.

( seems like ive had to defend like 50% of my deck choices so far like this)

but just try it, if you dont like it then dont run it. but im sure yuoll be surprised.

Pltnmngl
04-30-2008, 04:52 PM
hahaha.

see i knew this was the type of response i would get.

test it in your builds before casting it off, the shear power and utility of knowing you can re reanimate a critter almost at will makes this soooo powerful!

ok... true you loose the life gain and versatilty of the jittes extra abilities, thats quite true, but it makes up for it in speed and a more synergy oriented abiliity with the rest of your deck.

so trust me it doesnt suck.

( seems like ive had to defend like 50% of my deck choices so far like this)

but just try it, if you dont like it then dont run it. but im sure yuoll be surprised.

Of course you have to defend a good number of your choices. You're running a deck that no one thinks is "tournament viable." :laugh:

"If people start to agree with your choices, start making new choices."

I assume you just switched out the Jittes. I can only imagine your goblin matchup...

rodgon666
04-30-2008, 05:13 PM
goblins is still a very very easy matchup. it was even before jittes were added to the deck.

thats jitte spot is still the only spot i find i can test around with, intuitions fit nicely for a control meta, jittes for an aggro. but if you want to be a ppure aggro deck ( which i like the most and works for me) i find that Grafted wargear fits the slot nicely until i find something better that actually works good with the deck.

enemyofarsenic
04-30-2008, 10:23 PM
How many grafted wargear do you use? 3 ofs? and also could you please post your recent list with it? =]

Pltnmngl
05-01-2008, 02:22 PM
Making the deck more "linear" is quite admirable. I'll give you that...

So anyway, how's the sideboard now?

rodgon666
05-01-2008, 03:55 PM
Rod's Reanimator
by Rodrigo Gonzalez
60 cards.

Spells:
4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
4x Careful Study
4x Brainstorm
1x Show and tell

Artifacts
3x Grafted wargear/Jitte/Intuition/repeal whatever the hell you feel like playing here. ive literally played with Standstill and done great

Enchantments
4x Animate Dead

Creatures:
4x Putrid Imp
4x Oona's Prowler

4x Bogardan Hellkite
4x Simic Sky Swallower
3x Sundering Titan

Lands:
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea
5x Swamp
1x Island


SB---------------

4x Extirpate
4x Stifle
4x Echoing truth / Repeal ( depending if theres alot of ichorid or not, if not then repeal goes in)
3x Show and Tell.



the deck itself doesnt change much unless you have the intuitions then the creature base changes to this.

4x Hellkite
2x SSS
1x Garza / Bringer of the blue dawn
2x Sundering Titan
2x Phantom Nishoba

Team-Hero
05-02-2008, 01:17 AM
The Hypnox and Show and Tell combo does not work

rodgon666
05-02-2008, 02:04 AM
too bad...

ive also been trying to see if running some powerfull enchantments ( form of the dragon and such) and the show and tells in after sideboarding and some mystical tutors to find them.

a little transgretional sideboard.

just shooting my new testing ideas out at you guys for consideration.

( show and tell would bring fatties or massive enchantments/artifacts and odds are opponents side out any enchantment hate and would loose. hahahhaa)

Mr Wiggl3s
05-02-2008, 07:57 AM
I still like Deathrender. At least it goes "My Imp becomes an 8/8 untargetable monstrosity."

1.10.2007 If the creature you put into play can't be equipped by Deathrender (due to protection from artifacts, for example), the creature comes into play but Deathrender remains unattached.

dahcmai
05-02-2008, 08:23 AM
Out of curiousity, was Oona ever tried out? Seems like a half decent target since she can offer a second win con with the mill effect if there's something like multiple Propaganda type cards out like what Enchantress doles out.

Also, she naturally evades Edict and provides blockers for critters if need be.

Flying isn't too shabby either for something so large.

Cons - Swordsable, no cip effect.

Jaynel
05-02-2008, 09:53 AM
1.10.2007 If the creature you put into play can't be equipped by Deathrender (due to protection from artifacts, for example), the creature comes into play but Deathrender remains unattached.

Attaching is different from equipping, so Deathrender could bring out a SSS. But it's a moot point because Deathrender costs too much mana.

Team-Hero
05-02-2008, 12:05 PM
The only problem with Oona is that she wants mana... mana in which the deck sometimes doesn't have the means to invest in. On that note, I have tried Crosis, the Purger in the deck and sometimes you just can't afford the mana investment.

rodgon666
05-02-2008, 01:43 PM
OOna is very slow. id rather have Verdant Force i you wanted to have edict protection and token generation, or symbiotic wurm.

Oona is mana intensive and only impressive when you have alot of mana to pul her second ability. youll never kill through milling with this deck and oona.

enemyofarsenic
05-06-2008, 01:29 AM
How about this setup:

4 Bogardan Hellkites
4 Angel of Despair
3 Sundering Titans

4 Turn to Mist (to abuse "comes into play" and "leaves play" abilities)

rleader
05-06-2008, 03:36 AM
It's an absolutely dead card until it's overkill; it'll never be just enough kill.

rodgon666
05-06-2008, 03:44 AM
adding turn to mist to the deck would not justify adding 4 bad reanimation targets ( angel sucks... read the first post ).

indeed its worth testing turn to mist, but not worth rearranging the creature base for it.

nodahero
05-06-2008, 10:45 AM
I realize that Rod is prolly the number one player with reanimator on here. However I must respectfully disagree that adding certain cards is not cause to change the creature base. I think that Enemy may have a fair idea. The question is not if it is good (in my mind) but if his meta is right for that kind of change. Anything worth reanimating is only worth reanimating if it can do its job. A very generic example is why reanimate a Hellkite if your oppoent has COP:red in play VS say a Swallower. I think Enemies list is a decent idea if his meta is filled with lock decks such as Stax. Not to mention I think his is actually better suited to a control meta in general. If one of his threats gets into play he can due significantly more damage than the typical creature suite we use at the cost of 5/6 immediate damage. Essentially the question to me is "Does a one turn slower win consitute the disruption his creatures bring in, particulary when there abilities can be reused?"

Mr Wiggl3s
05-06-2008, 04:24 PM
I realize that Rod is prolly the number one player with reanimator on here. However I must respectfully disagree that adding certain cards is not cause to change the creature base. I think that Enemy may have a fair idea. The question is not if it is good (in my mind) but if his meta is right for that kind of change. Anything worth reanimating is only worth reanimating if it can do its job. A very generic example is why reanimate a Hellkite if your oppoent has COP:red in play VS say a Swallower. I think Enemies list is a decent idea if his meta is filled with lock decks such as Stax. Not to mention I think his is actually better suited to a control meta in general. If one of his threats gets into play he can due significantly more damage than the typical creature suite we use at the cost of 5/6 immediate damage. Essentially the question to me is "Does a one turn slower win consitute the disruption his creatures bring in, particulary when there abilities can be reused?"

That's their. I dont understand what you're asking... Basically, you're saying that this deck is to slow?

rodgon666
05-06-2008, 06:19 PM
The only thing you fail to see is that the abilities of the angel without the turn to mists reusability is a bad creature with a 4 turn clock and no protection.

the creature base i have added and modified in my list makes it so that any other things you bring in only add to the power of the deck. jitte/ Grafted wargear makes your weenies just as big as the fatties thus they have to deal with them first or die. this opens way for your fatties which they will also have problems with, and if htey dont play smart theyll get beaten down both ways.

turn to mist just makes the deck relatively more protected towards hate, but not really at the same time.

with sundering titan, if you use turn to mist once odds are youll loose most of your lands. ( 3 triggers )

and the dragon is the only massive and most abusable dude, since your not going to be using them with the weenies either.

so in theory we have to find a card thats going to improve our kill without slowing us down, or improve the other kill codition.

Mr Wiggl3s
05-06-2008, 08:22 PM
I think you need more than 3 copies of fat ass's though

they could just extripe them right? then we're fucked

Pulp_Fiction
05-07-2008, 01:35 PM
Now I have not ever played this version of reanimator so I am not going to pretend to know anything about it, however, why run 4x of most of your creatures? I know how good SSS is, no doubt I would run 4x of him due to the fact most decks have no answer! But the other options should be a little scattered shouldn't they? Extirpate is gaining momentum in Legacy and it just seems like a better idea to run mainly 1-2 of creatures. Also, do you not like Phantom Nishoba in the deck anymore? That is one of the best reanimation targets in the game alongside Akroma! Maybe the creature base should look something like:

4x SSS
3x Bogardan Hellkite
2x Sundering Titan
1x Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1x Phantom Nishoba
And possibly -1 Hellkite +1 Tidesprout Tyrant

@ Rod's newest list, the 3x spots that you have open, would Echoing Truth be the right choice, tons of versatility and it deals with Leyline of the Void as well as Empty the Warrens tokens from storm combo decks which are faster than reanimator is.

Mr Wiggl3s
05-07-2008, 01:56 PM
Akroma isn't good in reanimate anymore

rodgon666
05-07-2008, 02:19 PM
it is true that Extirpate is gaining momentum at the moment, but most of the time the card isnt run mainboard, thus all you have to do after sideboard if your worried about it is run show and tell. ( you wont always get it, but they wont always get extirpate either.)

and Akroma isnt bad in reanimator decks, shes just not that much more effective than SSS. and thus got replaced by a copy of him in the deck.
plus the fact that she cant be animate deaded anymore sucks balls.

I cannot stress enough again and again... 4 hellkite copies are a must. he is the single handed MVP of the deck. if i could run 12 copies of him instead of anything else. i would. hahaha

Echoing truth fits fine. if you see alot of combo, but odds are its not going to save you, its a futile effort unless you have the stifles and extirpates to stop them completely, you may bounce the tokens... but you give them too much time to recover and kill you again... sad but true... combo is gay like that...

Mr Wiggl3s
05-07-2008, 06:18 PM
http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGSHA/mirrorweave.jpg

imps and oona's become hellkites?

Sanguine Voyeur
05-07-2008, 06:22 PM
imps and oona's become hellkites?I assume you mean Mirrorweave (http://magiccards.info/shm/en/143.html). Mirrorweave won't allow any more comes into play ability, so it might not work that amazingly with Hellkite. It would work well with Tidespout Tyrant or Sundering Titan, but it does cost four mana to win more.

The Legacy Weapon
05-07-2008, 06:26 PM
Has anyone considered knollspine dragon? Seems like he could come in handy if you are pushed into the later game as a slight bit of card draw. Just force some damage through with your smaller guys and reanimate him on second main phase. Yeah, it's probably win more but he IS a 7/5 flyer.

Mr Wiggl3s
05-07-2008, 06:46 PM
I assume you mean Mirrorweave (http://magiccards.info/shm/en/143.html). Mirrorweave won't allow any more comes into play ability, so it might not work that amazingly with Hellkite. It would work well with Tidespout Tyrant or Sundering Titan, but it does cost four mana to win more.
Does it also mean that their creatures become the chosen creature? It'd be so fun-stupid to play, i want to...

Has anyone considered knollspine dragon? Seems like he could come in handy if you are pushed into the later game as a slight bit of card draw. Just force some damage through with your smaller guys and reanimate him on second main phase. Yeah, it's probably win more but he IS a 7/5 flyer.
Ya, a few pages back

Sanguine Voyeur
05-07-2008, 06:48 PM
Does it also mean that their creatures become the chosen creature? It'd be so fun-stupid to play, i want to...Yes, all creatures would become a 5/5 flier, 5/5 bouncer, 7/10 Armageddon bomb, or a 0/0 dead creature with Phantom Nishoba.

rodgon666
05-07-2008, 11:48 PM
all im going to say is good luck getting to 4 mana consistently

Thehunter820
05-08-2008, 12:25 PM
Rod's Reanimator
by Rodrigo Gonzalez
60 cards.

Spells:
4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
4x Careful Study
4x Brainstorm
1x Show and tell

Artifacts
3x Grafted wargear/Jitte/Intuition/repeal whatever the hell you feel like playing here. ive literally played with Standstill and done great

Enchantments
4x Animate Dead

Creatures:
4x Putrid Imp
4x Oona's Prowler

4x Bogardan Hellkite
4x Simic Sky Swallower
3x Sundering Titan

Lands:
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea
5x Swamp
1x Island


SB---------------

4x Extirpate
4x Stifle
4x Echoing truth / Repeal ( depending if theres alot of ichorid or not, if not then repeal goes in)
3x Show and Tell.



the deck itself doesnt change much unless you have the intuitions then the creature base changes to this.

4x Hellkite
2x SSS
1x Garza / Bringer of the blue dawn
2x Sundering Titan
2x Phantom Nishoba

I know its irrelevant, but this list is still 61 you know. Also one of my friends runs reanimator, and I was playing him the other day after lunch with my burn deck, and I won, but the funny part is that I killed him with street wraith in mono red burn :O I was also wondering if anyone uses Phantom Nishoba?

rodgon666
05-08-2008, 02:35 PM
people... dont mean to sound like an ass... but please read some of the thread before you ask questions.

and burn by the way isnt a favorable matchup if you dont have a jitte. but since a minimal amount of people play it in mayor tournaments i dont find it necessary to change the deck to comply with it.

raharu
05-08-2008, 04:21 PM
I've had to deal with this recently (a friend proxied it up and has decided to build it) and Simic Sky Swallower is the best reanimate target in the deck by far. I'm not concerned when I see Bogardan Hellkite, but when I see SSS I cry a little on the inside. It's nigh impossible to handle. Seriously, what handles is? EE for 7? Wrath of God or Damnation? Yeah, really slowly. All the commonly played removal in the format completely misses it. It should be played in more slots.

rodgon666
05-08-2008, 05:48 PM
I've had to deal with this recently (a friend proxied it up and has decided to build it) and Simic Sky Swallower is the best reanimate target in the deck by far. I'm not concerned when I see Bogardan Hellkite, but when I see SSS I cry a little on the inside. It's nigh impossible to handle. Seriously, what handles is? EE for 7? Wrath of God or Damnation? Yeah, really slowly. All the commonly played removal in the format completely misses it. It should be played in more slots.

its already in as a 4 of... cant really put of him in there hahaha.

Mr Wiggl3s
05-08-2008, 06:27 PM
I found out why my deck sucks

Im runing to thin on creatures...

My new list...


// Lands
4 [U] Underground Sea
2 [RAV] Watery Grave

5 [TE] Swamp (4)
1 [PT] Island (4)

3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Oona's Prowler
4 [TO] Putrid Imp

4 [DIS] Simic Sky Swallower
4 [TSP] Bogardan Hellkite
2 [DS] Sundering Titan
1 [JU] Phantom Nishoba
1 [FD] Bringer of the Blue Dawn

// Spells
4 [US] Exhume
4 [TE] Reanimate
4 [4E] Animate Dead
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Careful Study
2 [LRW] Ponder

Thehunter820
05-09-2008, 12:21 PM
people... dont mean to sound like an ass... but please read some of the thread before you ask questions.

and burn by the way isnt a favorable matchup if you dont have a jitte. but since a minimal amount of people play it in mayor tournaments i dont find it necessary to change the deck to comply with it.

I did read the thread, I was just pointing it out, and I actually like reanimator as opposed to those who just put it down. I didnt expect him to win, I was saying that because it was funny that I killed him with a street wraith in mono red burn. I'd never killed anyone with it before.

Also to raharu, the only other thing I can think of to get rid of SSS would be seize/therapy/extirpate type things.

rodgon666
05-09-2008, 01:46 PM
the only other thing I can think of to get rid of SSS would be seize/therapy/extirpate type things.

all those except extirpate help us. hahaha

Willoe
05-09-2008, 02:08 PM
Isn't that actuallywhat makes the deck somewhat viable in legacy? That the threads only benefit from being destroyed?

Small hint, when Seizing/Therapying GY-recursion decks, it's best to hit the recursion engine rather than the recursion targets. I bet you know that.

If you play thoughtseize against reanimator and you see the following hand:

Bogardan Hellkite, Putrid Imp, Reanimate, SSS, Bloodstained Mire, Watery Grave, Brainstorm

Then what would you choose?

I'd take Putrid Imp, as it creates two dead cards in the opponent's cards. 2 dead cards which of course just can be shuffled away with Brainstorm + Mire.

Nihil Credo
05-09-2008, 02:16 PM
I'd take Putrid Imp, as it creates two dead cards in the opponent's cards. 2 dead cards which of course just can be shuffled away with Brainstorm + Mire.
Or, you know, eventually discarded at end of turn.

The correct pick is Reanimate, because they aren't guaranteed to hit a reanimation spell in three turns (very likely with Brainstorm+fetch, but not certain), but they are guaranteed to hit eight cards in hand.

The exception, of course, is if you've got another Thoughtseize or Duress for next turn, in which case taking Putrid Imp allows you to grab Reanimate anyway.

Team-Hero
05-09-2008, 02:34 PM
I would just not play Thoughtsieze againt Reanimator in the first place. 2 life is too much to pay against this deck.

rodgon666
05-09-2008, 02:59 PM
Willoe actually go the right play,

by taking the purtrid imp he theoretically eliminated most of your hand.the critters and reanimates cant be used until you get another discrd outlet or reanimate the imp.

if you manage to get your discard outlet in and get a creature in the yard its a losing battle for the opponent from that point on.

Nihil Credo
05-09-2008, 03:08 PM
Willoe actually go the right play,

by taking the purtrid imp he theoretically eliminated most of your hand.the critters and reanimates cant be used until you get another discrd outlet or reanimate the imp.

if you manage to get your discard outlet in and get a creature in the yard its a losing battle for the opponent from that point on.
You're not making sense. You've put the fatties in the yard, great. Now you need to find a reanimation spell or all you have is a 1/1 flier.

Were I to take the Putrid Imp, you'd have to find a discard outlet (which most lists run in the same number as reanimation spells) or get to eight cards in hand. You would have slightly better odds of getting back into the game.

rodgon666
05-09-2008, 03:36 PM
that my friend is right to a certain point, the thing is, that if your playing agaisnt a deck with thoughtsieze/ therapy and they get your imp, by the time you get to another discard outlet your probably going to get disrupted again by the flashbacked therapy or another discard etc.

if you have the creatures in the grave ( given that they dont take your imp) your in very different board position and quite better. you have the opportunity to get into either one of 11 reanimation spells that will most likely shift the game into your favour, or let you draw into one of your equipments and start stalling like that.

roughly 1 out of the next 5 cards is going to be either a reanimation spell or a discard outlet, but if you add the fact that you have equipment x3 that makes it roughly a little less than 1 out of 4 cards that you can draw that are going to help you on the spot, and playing off the top of your deck and predicting through statistics what the cards are you might get with the highest probability ratio helps you as a a magic player know in a slightly better way how to control your draws. ( thus so many fetchlands in the deck)

Nihil Credo
05-09-2008, 03:48 PM
If you're playing with Equipment, then getting rid of the Imp is more important. I don't take it into account since your lists are the only ones I've seen running Jitte (in this thread or elsewhere), and even then you list it as optional.

raharu
05-09-2008, 03:55 PM
its already in as a 4 of... cant really put of him in there hahaha.
I've seen recent lists cutting a few for retarded utility creatures that aren't needed, hence the concern.

Team-Hero
05-09-2008, 05:38 PM
I believe that the best way to sideboard against the Reanimator is to add creature control spells and bounce spells. The color blue is the best to combat the reanimator. I'd use Guilded Drakes, bounce spells, stifles, and a single Control Magic to defeat this deck. The thing is... even with all that... it's still hard to beat if your not combo.

Nihil Credo
05-09-2008, 06:16 PM
What deck do you play, Team-Hero?

Team-Hero
05-09-2008, 08:42 PM
I play really random rogue decks that I create with my spare time. I fish out most of my decks from the dollar bins. I do have most cards that are needed to power any tier 1 deck in Legacy, but I choose to be different. With this, I tend to notice answers to many decks that other people did not know existed. RodGon can vouch for me when I say "bounce" kills the Reanimator.

I don't really think that there is a concrete answer to this deck yet. Not counting combo, a deck designed to beat the Reanimator would have to consist of Layline of the Void, Akromas (to counter Show and Tell), Echoing Truth, Stifle, and Guilded Drakes. I have also tested Meekstone and it somewhat does the job.

The true way to beat this deck is to design a Reanimator of your own but try to bumb off your opponent's resources. When he Exhumes, you have a nice critter (like Akroma) ready. When he chucks creatures into the yard, you take them with your own Reanimate. When he plays his bombs, you take them with Guilded Drake and bounce him back to your hand.

After some testing, the Reanimator deck DOES have problems answering to its own creatures (if you find a way to take them). Food for thought.

Nihil Credo
05-09-2008, 09:05 PM
I'm pretty sure your fear is excessive. I'm not claiming Reanimator isn't playable or good, but off the top of my head regular old UWb Landstill can mess quite well with the deck's plan - Humility backed with countermagic and removal, this deck likes not.

Another weakness is that the engine just plain shuts down once Countertop lands. Postboard there's Show and Tell to get around this, but there is no disruption to protect it, and costing 3 it's quite vulnerable to Daze.

Finally, if Akroma has been cut it means that now lots of decks can just race with, say, a pair of Tarmogoyfs, multiple Piledrivers, or a Rakdos Pit-Dragon (particularly so if Reanimate was involved). Bogardan does take out 4-5 power worth of creatures, but it's no Akroma when it comes to damage races.

Mr Wiggl3s
05-09-2008, 10:18 PM
I'm pretty sure your fear is excessive. I'm not claiming Reanimator isn't playable or good, but off the top of my head regular old UWb Landstill can mess quite well with the deck's plan - Humility backed with countermagic and removal, this deck likes not.
Humility is a bitch. Counter (not really removal with 4 SSS mb) makes the game long and unfavorable. UWb Landstill... IDK, it's long and unfavorable.


Another weakness is that the engine just plain shuts down once Countertop lands. Postboard there's Show and Tell to get around this, but there is no disruption to protect it, and costing 3 it's quite vulnerable to Daze.

Yes... Once top gets out. Most countertop decks run goyf shutting down exhume and animate dead.


Finally, if Akroma has been cut it means that now lots of decks can just race with, say, a pair of Tarmogoyfs, multiple Piledrivers, or a Rakdos Pit-Dragon (particularly so if Reanimate was involved). Bogardan does take out 4-5 power worth of creatures, but it's no Akroma when it comes to damage races.
Piledriver is managable for a little while, a pair of goyfs... hopefully we have critters out. Damage race's are in our favor.

Good post Nihil

rodgon666
05-10-2008, 03:41 AM
ok so yet another 5 round tournament for you all to look at.

ended in second, effectively killing my first place string of 4 tournaments. boo.

i was trying this list with a little extra add.

Rod's Reanimator
by Rodrigo Gonzalez
61 cards.

Spells:
4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
4x Careful Study
3x Brainstorm
1x Show and tell

Enchantments
4x Animate Dead

Creatures:
4x Putrid Imp
4x Oona's Prowler
4x Brain Gorgers!!!! ( i works quite nicely )
4x Bogardan Hellkite
4x Simic Sky Swallower
3x Sundering Titan

Lands:
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea
5x Swamp
1x Island


SB:

3x Stifle
3x Echoing truth
3x Jitte
3x Defense Grid
3x Show and tell.

round by round:

Round 1: Kevin Trombley with Persist. DECk

Game one i have no idea what he is playing and have no reason to fear what he plays, he plays a couple of dudes that recover and after a show and tell he reveals a twilight shepperd.. 5/5 vigilance flyin with persist and gets another dude that takes off the counters.. so i lose eventually to a wrath... and he gets all his dudes in ply again... Bad show and tell... bad...

Game two i just get early beats and finish him, no real contention...

game three i dont recall too much either, he doesnt play much of anything and gets beat down promptly by a SSS.

Round 2:Jerry Dunham With Draco Explosion

Game one i get quick beats and he cant for the life of him find the combo, and it ends turn 5

Game two i get a turn 2 sundering titan he cant counter and scoops.

Round 3:Petsy with Ichorid combo

He gets a game loss for taking too long to show up.

game two i manage to beat him since he draws into nothing but ichorids...
a couple of creatures do him in.

Round 4:Trevor with 4C landstill

Game 1: i get a dragon and he kills it, i make oter critters and beat down to the death! ( brain gorgers shone like the sun here! hahaha)

Game2: he keeps me off my game and beats me down, i stabilize manage to deal a good aount of damage with critters get him to 5, i have one SSS in the yard and one in my hand. he manages to extirpate my dude in response to an exhume, ( damn extirpate...) and loose.

Game three i get an early turn 2 SSS and he cant get a black for the life of him, for the edict, i get an imp and even if he did get it it wouldnt have mattered anymore.


Round 5: Phillipe with B/G hate you reanimator die a hardy death.deck hahaha

Game 1 he gets beat with an early dragon and imps

game 2 leyline gets active, but i bounce, he still has darkblasts for my early dudes ( that card is teh shit against this...) and a turn late on a show and tell with a dragon when he is at ten means i lose. boo.

game 3 i mull to 5 and just get my ass kicked to hell and back with 2 leylines and im guessin an extirpate in hand too. hahaha.


so second place is not that bad.

braingorgers worked really nice and plan on leaving them in.

jittes were moved to the sideboard again.

rleader
05-11-2008, 05:51 AM
"braingorgers worked really nice and plan on leaving them in."

seriously? What prompted them? I guess they're nice vs. bad combo. But what isn't? How'd they shine against Landstill though?

enemyofarsenic
05-11-2008, 06:17 AM
Additonal beaters i guess...

Quoth
05-11-2008, 07:49 AM
seriously? What prompted them?

You are not so graveyard dependent.
Putrid Imp, Oona's Prowler and the Brain Gorgers let you play aggro without using the graveyard.



Q

rleader
05-11-2008, 08:01 AM
Brain Gorgers isn't necessarily good aggro though. Nice vs. an empty field, for sure. Not so useful against anything else.

Mr Wiggl3s
05-11-2008, 01:04 PM
ok so yet another 5 round tournament for you all to look at.

What do you side for landstill and ichorid? Also, what would you side in for thresh?

rodgon666
05-11-2008, 01:11 PM
it makes yet another thing they have to deal with, not alot of people can deal with 4/2 at instant speed, it often throws a wrench in peoples gameplans.

yeah its good against landstill and counterbalance. unfortunately its just a 4/2 but on the other hand... its a 4/2 for 2 at instant speed!

this allows you to have your full reanimation suite ( 12 discard, 12 reanimation, 11 fattie creatures ) and also 12 beaters.

the deck turns to Combo aggro, not the ultimate aggro plan, but not half bad if you ask me.

3/1 flyers and 4/2 instants and yeah... a 2/2 or 1/1 hahaha.

rodgon666
05-11-2008, 01:16 PM
What do you side for landstill and ichorid? Also, what would you side in for thresh?


For Ichorid i side in Stifles, Echoing truth and Extirpates if i run them. if you fear this deck alot just run propaganda and see them squirm. hahahaha

agaisnt thresh i side in show and tells ( go ahead and play your werebear/ goyf )and stifles. mana disruption i your trump card here in this match, if you can resolve a titan and use stifles for fetchlands your win is not far behind. they give you too much time before your een in trouble of getting killed. also the braingorgers are very nice here since they normally will try to play control early and wont play creatures to sack.

Mr Wiggl3s
05-13-2008, 07:45 AM
When you side show and tells do you usually take out the animate deads (same with chalice i assume)?

But what would you side out for the others?

enemyofarsenic
05-17-2008, 09:00 PM
Anybody seen this list yet?

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=16020

rleader
05-18-2008, 05:41 AM
^ nice way to win a long game with the archetype, but seems really slow, especially if you draw a grip of kavus: the potential inconsistency seems to be the real drawback.

rodgon666
05-18-2008, 05:58 AM
Anybody seen this list yet?

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=16020

the moment i saw gemstone mine and stitch together i just closed it, subpar by far.

maybe fun for a casual game but thats it really.

Pltnmngl
05-18-2008, 08:17 PM
the moment i saw gemstone mine and stitch together i just closed it, subpar by far.

maybe fun for a casual game but thats it really.

Exactly.

Mr Wiggl3s
05-18-2008, 10:33 PM
Just for fun :tongue:


// Lands
4 [A] Underground Sea
3 [A] Badlands

3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [ON] Polluted Delta

1 [10E] Mountain
1 [BD] Island
4 [7E] Swamp

// Creatures
3 [LG] Nicol Bolas
4 [DIS] Simic Sky Swallower
4 [TSP] Bogardan Hellkite

4 [LRW] Oona's Prowler
4 [TO] Putrid Imp

// Spells
4 [FNM] Reanimate
4 [4E] Animate Dead
4 [US] Exhume

2 [LRW] Ponder
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Careful Study

Also, has anyone tried playing Experiment Kraj in this deck...?

rleader
05-19-2008, 10:06 AM
3 [LG] Nicol Bolas
4 [DIS] Simic Sky Swallower
4 [TSP] Bogardan Hellkite


How is that fun? Playing Bolas without Anger is dumb, first of all, and if you want to do something crazy nuts, go Reaper King + Grim Poppet + various changelings for pure silliness.

Mr Wiggl3s
05-19-2008, 04:23 PM
How is that fun?

Because i have people discard their hands. I find joy in that.

rodgon666
05-19-2008, 04:47 PM
i find winning even more fun, so could we get back to discussing the decklist.

has anyone had any success with the new set at all? any testing done from the pool of cards given to us?

Mr Wiggl3s
05-19-2008, 08:46 PM
i find winning even more fun, so could we get back to discussing the decklist.

has anyone had any success with the new set at all? any testing done from the pool of cards given to us?

Well damn captain serious

See >>>


When you side show and tells do you usually take out the animate deads (same with chalice i assume)?

But what would you side out for the other decks??

nodahero
05-19-2008, 09:05 PM
I know I am prolly the one who has had luck with Deus of Calamity or Woodfall Primus but they have both proven very well in testing in my meta where aggro is non-existatnt and money mana bases are the norm. Those 2 and Titan together just do a rock solid number on my oppoents typically. Against anything else even remotely aggro however they do not do nearly enough. Those both seem aimed at a meta such as mine.

Team-Hero
05-20-2008, 06:49 PM
Since Akroma isn't viable in the deck anymore, would Razia be a good card choice with the current meta?

Brehn
05-20-2008, 06:56 PM
Isn't Razia just an inferior Akroma...?

thefreakaccident
05-20-2008, 06:57 PM
Yes, but she doesn't have pro-black...

Therefore making her more useful.

rleader
05-20-2008, 07:11 PM
^ But of course, Garza Zol has haste too and draws you a card (while being immune to terror type effects), generally making her preferable, although Razia can play solid D against anything non goyf. Most times you'd rather have SSS or a dragon though.

Iranon
05-20-2008, 07:25 PM
Is it feasible to run discard outlets that double as disruption?

Thoughtseize, Blackmail and Cabal Therapy would fit the bill. Unfortunately, Blackmail isn't exactly a powerful card and Therapy is less than optimal with limited flashback targets and only 4 cards that give perfect information about the opponent's hand...

rodgon666
05-21-2008, 01:05 AM
Is it feasible to run discard outlets that double as disruption?

Thoughtseize, Blackmail and Cabal Therapy would fit the bill. Unfortunately, Blackmail isn't exactly a powerful card and Therapy is less than optimal with limited flashback targets and only 4 cards that give perfect information about the opponent's hand...

NONONONONONO!!!

really i have to explain this again... ok... here goes.

Thoughtsieze: 2 life to discard a card, is bad all around. For you and for them. your not afraid of creatures so duress would be infinitely better, ad youll never play it on yourself and loose 2 life... come one... really? no... its bad...

Cabal therapy: not good without a creature base that supports it, run some symbiotic wurms and tidesprouts and your all in with these.

Blackmail.: dude... no explanation needed is it?

kicks_422
05-21-2008, 01:32 AM
Just asking... Is there a particular reason for running 61 cards? Or is it just because you can't cut a card to make it 60?

rodgon666
05-21-2008, 04:43 AM
thats just my preference and it has worked woderfully for me.

cut a brainstorm if you want to make it 60. in my opinion its the weakest card in the deck.

YuanTi
05-21-2008, 05:26 AM
Thoughtsieze: 2 life to discard a card, is bad all around. For you and for them.

How is this bad for you and them? That just doesnt make sense. It's got to benefit somebody.


your not afraid of creatures so duress would be infinitely better, ad youll never play it on yourself and loose 2 life... come one... really? no... its bad...

Afraid of Creatures or not, it can pick out FoW, Daze or any other counters, discard they have, Spellstutter Sprite, any utility creatures or some beatstick are you looking for a reanimating topdeck.

It seems its far too easy to counter or make you discard your reanimation spells, and your aggro plan isn't strong enough to face down Thresh's, or Eva Green's at all. Discard seems a strong opening move against anyone who could disrupt you.

rodgon666
05-21-2008, 03:08 PM
as i meant it im saying that paying 2 life to get a card out of their hand is bad and paying 2 life to get one out of your hand is bad too.

and no very rarely would you be going after reanimating their critters unless you happen to go agaisnt the mirror. ( which you wont see all that much yet)

yes it is easy to counter, but i you get your first or second turn disicard outlet active you dont have to worry much, since they will be forced to play on defense the rest of the game or loose. the games can be turned around with a simple reanimate/animate dead/exhume, even if its late in the game, you can pull wins out of nowhere and the deck is explosive as hell for an aggro combo deck as it is, so odds are that since they are countering your stuff early they still give you enough time to make a comeback multiple times over.

and discard is rarely a problem, except if you get really shitty luck and they strip your entire hand.

Nosomo.
05-21-2008, 06:23 PM
as i meant it im saying that paying 2 life to get a card out of their hand is bad and paying 2 life to get one out of your hand is bad too.

and no very rarely would you be going after reanimating their critters unless you happen to go agaisnt the mirror. ( which you wont see all that much yet)

yes it is easy to counter, but i you get your first or second turn disicard outlet active you dont have to worry much, since they will be forced to play on defense the rest of the game or loose. the games can be turned around with a simple reanimate/animate dead/exhume, even if its late in the game, you can pull wins out of nowhere and the deck is explosive as hell for an aggro combo deck as it is, so odds are that since they are countering your stuff early they still give you enough time to make a comeback multiple times over.

and discard is rarely a problem, except if you get really shitty luck and they strip your entire hand.

discard extripate? maybe and rod, u were not at the tournie on Friday I will set you ablaze.

thefreakaccident
05-21-2008, 07:17 PM
Rodrigo, I actually agree with your opinion on the discard spells... why disrupt the opponent when you can win?

Although the logic fails when you are playing against quick combo, but there is no hope for this deck in that MU anyways.

rodgon666
05-21-2008, 08:43 PM
THANK YOU!!! someone gets it!

y disrupt when you can win!!!

Pltnmngl
05-22-2008, 11:26 AM
Why disrupt when you can win? Because there will always be a deck that can win faster than you...but that's just me being the devil's advocate. Technically, this deck does have disruption with the dragons and discard creatures that can chump when necessary.

YuanTi
05-22-2008, 11:43 AM
THANK YOU!!! someone gets it!

y disrupt when you can win!!!

And you're going to win how exactly when your opponent is playing as many counters as you are reanimation spells, not to mention StP and Discard?

rleader
05-22-2008, 12:30 PM
And you're going to win how exactly when your opponent is playing as many counters as you are reanimation spells

Boseiju?

Thehunter820
05-22-2008, 12:42 PM
Yeah getting countered is a major problem that I see with this deck, the other day I was watching two of my friends play, Reanimator vs. 4 color thresh. Every reanimation effect got countered, and all of the Putrid Imp's and Oona's Prowler's got Swords to Plowshares or Pyroclasm. Now I will say that the thresh player got a very good hand that game, but most of the time it's the same story, the reanimation player usually loses, so I think it could be reasonable to pack some kind of disruption rather than hoping you can win faster.

rodgon666
05-22-2008, 02:25 PM
id like to disagree with your statement there, thresh is actually a pretty descent match up for this deck, perhaps its the experience with the deck that accounts for more than just picking it up and playing it. also if it wasnt this version of reanimator i can guarantee that the deck wasnt fine tuned to make the most of itself.

not to toot my own horn, but i have but countless hours into the decks testing and developement and have had a very very succesful run with it. you need to know when to play your spells against thresh, and trust me if they have all the counters for your reanimation AND swords for all your critters AND a clock fast enough to kill you before you draw into another reanimation spell, then holy shit they had the GOD hand of the freaking century!

The reanimator deck doesnt always loose to thresh and games certainly dont always go that way, not by a long shot, one resolved TITAN or SSS normally spells game over against thresh, even if they kill the titan.

Im providing my experience and knowledge of the decks and how it works the best, and disruption in the way of discard is not the way to go. Go ahead and say all you want to defend it... it just isnt optimal in the deck!

An opponent can only counter so many things with their resources without falling behind, if you play your shit right you will be able to go around them like its nothing, trust me this deck might seems very easy to just pick up and play, but in itself its not the most mistake forgiving deck out there, if you make mistakes itll show, and if you pick up the suttle plays you can see the power of the deck or else your just going to loose to decks like thresh all the time.

YuanTi
05-22-2008, 03:15 PM
id like to disagree with your statement there, thresh is actually a pretty descent match up for this deck, perhaps its the experience with the deck that accounts for more than just picking it up and playing it. also if it wasnt this version of reanimator i can guarantee that the deck wasnt fine tuned to make the most of itself.

In the surprisingly frequent number of times Ive ran into this deck on MWS, I've never lost with Thresh. A reasonably average build (http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=16024) has 12 spells to stop reanimation, the same as you have reanimation spells, as well as counterbalance, which can easily hit your 1cc and 2cc reanimation spells.


and trust me if they have all the counters for your reanimation AND swords for all your critters AND a clock fast enough to kill you before you draw into another reanimation spell, then holy shit they had the GOD hand of the freaking century!

You run 12 reanimation spells. (Ignoring the 61st card for simplicities sake) you will draw one every 5 cards. Thresh will draw something to prevent/solve reanimation every 5 cards plus counterbalance and all their cantrips. They have a lot more to solve your reanimations than you have reanimations.

And apparently FoW, StP, 2 x Fetchlands, Blue Card, Goyf/Goose/Enforcer, Card is a god hand. Despite it being an average sort of hand.


Im providing my experience and knowledge of the decks and how it works the best, and disruption in the way of discard is not the way to go. Go ahead and say all you want to defend it... it just isnt optimal in the deck!

This is your main problem when arguing. You don't backup what you say at all, you just say you're right, without any backing argument. WHY is it suboptimal? Your opinion is pretty hard to take seriously when you dont back it up at all.

raharu
05-22-2008, 03:39 PM
THANK YOU!!! someone gets it!

y disrupt when you can win!!!
Why disrupt when you can loose to threshold!!!?!!!?!????!?!!!?

It's a bad match. They control the game until they can land a CB, and then proceede to kill you in a slow, calculated fashion. I've played Reanimator in this MU. It's a bad match, even with a late CB.

Mr Wiggl3s
05-22-2008, 04:27 PM
Rod i think your playing bad, or mediocre thresh players

a counterbalance up will waste our imps, brainstorms, careful studies and reanimates. 1 daze in hand wastes our animate dead, exhume, and onna's

now based on simple math, we're getting 1 reanimate spell everytime they are getting a counterspell... how is this in our favor...?

rodgon666
05-22-2008, 06:38 PM
im surprised to hear that people actually think that a therapy of thoughtsieze is going to win you the game? hahaha.

trust me, its not.

rleader
05-22-2008, 07:54 PM
Uh, so anyone ever test Boseiju?

YuanTi
05-23-2008, 03:12 AM
im surprised to hear that people actually think that a therapy of thoughtsieze is going to win you the game? hahaha.

trust me, its not.

Great, nice backing up of your argument again... :rolleyes:

Interesting how Thresh has turned from a good matchup to one that even adding hate won't win.

@rleader: Boseiju only protects Exhume, so I doubt its worthwhile. Add in the CiPT, the colourless mana, and the life loss, and it looks pretty poor I'm afraid.

rodgon666
05-23-2008, 04:04 AM
Great, nice backing up of your argument again... :rolleyes:

Interesting how Thresh has turned from a good matchup to one that even adding hate won't win.



who said that? hahaha way to take things and bend them dude. you should be a lawyer.

quite frankly i dont think youve played enough with the deck to be able to say if its a good or bad matchup, perhaps its the player and not the deck. find a better reanimator player. ^_^

Iranon
05-23-2008, 05:30 AM
As it is, Aggro/Control decks run way too many answers to the things that count... the reanimation spells. I quite with YuanTi's reasoning: They can disrupt you early on, then win long before the big stuff becomes hardcastable; a little selective discard could alleviate the problem (although I would still bet on Thresh).
Fast combo will go off all over your face. The option to go Mass Disruption -> 3 turn clock might even turn this around, especially since the deck can stop a desperation EtW quite easily.

Naturally, something like Thoughtseize isn't that good a discard outlet for yourself as the things you are running. It is, however, a way to run essential protection without sacrificing slots. This is why Duress isn't an alternative - it does nothing for yourself.

Oh, and excessive punctuations/capitalisation doesn't magically lend ways to one's point, quite the contrary.

YuanTi
05-23-2008, 07:46 AM
An opponent can only counter so many things with their resources without falling behind, if you play your shit right you will be able to go around them like its nothing, trust me this deck might seems very easy to just pick up and play, but in itself its not the most mistake forgiving deck out there, if you make mistakes itll show, and if you pick up the suttle plays you can see the power of the deck or else your just going to loose to decks like thresh all the time.


this friday i decided to let another one of my fellow magic players, a 13 year old play the deck to see how well he came out in the tournament, just for kicks, i didnt expect him to do so well, but he came out an surprised me.

it was a 5 round tournament that night, i played next to him on his first round he was playing against one of its worst possible matchups, Ichorid.

he lost...

( in my mind i was like dude... you loose anyways if you dont know the deck in and out against that.. hahaha)

and to tell the truth i didnt expect much more from him the rest of the night...

now, for the rest of the night he was on fire!, he would be done with his matches in a good 10 minutes and then came to tell me my deck was cheating... in a good way for him.

he didnt loose any other games that night and ended up in third place due to tie breakers. being behind in points only to the one guy goign undefeated ( unfortunately not me this time hahahaha, i was playing his BW coffers/ Staff of Domination deck )

this just goes to show that this deck can be run by anyone... literally anyone competent to play tournament magic, and do good.


now... can we get some more people to play this in tournaments...

you wont regret it. ^_^

So, the people I'm playing are worse than said 13 year olds, despite including people I know to have multiple Top 8s in Legacy tournaments, PTQs and one Nationals Top 8, right?

Cabal-kun
05-23-2008, 08:22 AM
who said that? hahaha way to take things and bend them dude. you should be a lawyer.

quite frankly i dont think youve played enough with the deck to be able to say if its a good or bad matchup, perhaps its the player and not the deck. find a better reanimator player. ^_^

Both your logic and posting skills are blinding sir. http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a318/Soul_Calibur/bleedy_eyes.gif

You're the one who has taken things and bent them. Nice dismissing the other side's points. You should be a politician.

Quite frankly, I don't think you've played Threshold enough to be able to say if it's a good or bad matchup. Perhaps it's the player and not the deck. Find a better Threshold player. ^.^

People have offered you clear reasons why the match is not in Reanimator's favor, and all you're able to do is say that they're not playing the deck right. At this point, I will suggest that you're facing Thresh decks that are piloted incorrectly, or built incorrectly, and that has led to a matchup skewed in your favor. This reminds me of The Cure; supposedly, it had an autowin against Thresh, according to the deck creator. Of course, when this was actually tested out, The Cure lost horribly to pretty much any version of Thresh. I sense a similar situation here.

kicks_422
05-23-2008, 10:22 AM
^_^

I sense something evil going on here.

raharu
05-23-2008, 10:44 AM
I sense something evil going on here.
I sense something stupid. Where'd you get evil from?

Thehunter820
05-23-2008, 12:28 PM
Yea, thresh pretty much wins, aslong as they set up fast enough, it's not an auto win or anything but its definetly in their favor, second turn counter balance and a force or daze in hand is a pretty tough game right there.

Internet Hate Machine
05-23-2008, 12:47 PM
I can say the match will usually go to thresh, and I base this on play experience. We proxied reanimator down here and I have to say I was pretty impressed overall with the strength of consistancy of the deck, however, it has a problem dealing with countermagic, it just does, and I can say that with some degree of certainty. We tested it against my econo-thresh (Horrible, no fetches, terramorphic expanse, some shocklands and COBs, only 2 tarmogoyf....) and even with a horrendously(sp?) slower manabase I was usually able to out control reanimator most of the time and landing CB pretty much ended the decks game. This was all pre-side and I can only imagine it gets worse when they are able to bring in hate. The thing is, if I can usually beat it with terrible threshold how can you claim a positive MU against powered thresh? Ill give you the benefit of saying I am positive you are better with the deck than we are, you are, after all, its creator, but there are also much better threshold players than me with much better decks. The disadvantages against threshold in general seem staggering.

Willoe
05-23-2008, 01:37 PM
Boseiju?

Boseiju? LOL

If you aren't investing enourmous amounts of mana on spells, then this ole tree is worthless. You can only play Animate Dead and Exhume off it and it sets you back a turn. Even with no 1-drop, boseiju gives a time walk to the opponent. A timewalk that could end in topdecking that cruel edict or whatever he uses.

Turn 1: Boseiju
Turn 2: Underground Sea, Putrid Imp (best case scenario)
Turn 3: Discard beef, Exhume with Boseiju backup.

This sucks as reanimator wants to reanimate as fast as possible, not be insured of its reanimations. That's the way the deck should be played. Roughly said, this deck can be compared to Spanish Inquisition. A great lack of protection is compensated by blinding speed. You're a turn slower than Spanish Inquisition, but you're more consistent. There's no mini tendrils in this deck. The opponent has to deal with your beef or die. That's it. Not many decks can race a turn 2 akroma. Many decks can race a turn 3 one, though.

So (ladies, lol) and gentlemen, what's better? Speed or protection? I'd call speed, and I think I've pretty much proven why.

Test mainboard protection instead of just proclaiming that it's absolutely necessary. This is hazard game with a greater chance of winning than losing. This can only be favorable. Either you fold to that Chalice @ 1 followed by one @ 2 or you simply goldfish which is incredibly easy.

raharu
05-23-2008, 02:05 PM
That's the way the deck should be played. Roughly said, this deck can be compared to Spanish Inquisition. A great lack of protection is compensated by blinding speed. You're a turn slower than Spanish Inquisition, but you're more consistent. There's no mini tendrils in this deck. The opponent has to deal with your beef or die. That's it. Not many decks can race a turn 2 akroma. Many decks can race a turn 3 one, though.


Unless we're talking about two different Spanish Inquisitions, the SI I know about has a consistent turn 2 goldfish with a high frequency of turn one goldfishes, if undisruipted, and has been knows to run

Orim's chant
Cabal Therapy
Pact of Negation ( although it has been dropped, for a period of time the deck ran them, if I'm not mistaken)
ok, well, to prove a point, PROTECTION


Alrighty then, you're comparing a deck that runs protection (in some/ most builds) to an entirely voulnerable deck that doesn't even have the option to kill the opponent until turn 3, if undisrupted and in a vacum, with a completely unlikely, overextending godhand*? I don't see the connection.

*Godhand would consist of of: U. Sea x2, Reanimate x2, Bogardan Hellkite x2, Putrid Imp/ Careful Study x1. Turn one, discard outlet, turn two, double Reanimate, turn 3 swing. This dies to so many commonly played cards it's not even funny.

thefreakaccident
05-23-2008, 08:40 PM
I think you guys are looking at this deck totally wrong... you basically play it like you would an agro deck, you play some threats, deal some damage, force them to deal with said threats, rinse repeat until they are dead...

This deck cannot be considered combo, it is too slow.

rodgon666
05-24-2008, 12:33 AM
BOSEIJU is not that great, you need in conjucture with only exhume or its pointless.

raharu
05-24-2008, 12:09 PM
I think you guys are looking at this deck totally wrong... you basically play it like you would an agro deck, you play some threats, deal some damage, force them to deal with said threats, rinse repeat until they are dead...

This deck cannot be considered combo, it is too slow.
Most agro decks either have a much higher threat density or sme form of disruption (or both, in most cases). I don't think that this fits the definition of Legacy agro. Straight agro, perhaps, but then again, there's a reason that straight agro isn't strong, or in most cases played, in tis format.

GiantGrowth
05-25-2008, 12:21 AM
Most agro decks either have a much higher threat density or sme form of disruption (or both, in most cases). I don't think that this fits the definition of Legacy agro. Straight agro, perhaps, but then again, there's a reason that straight agro isn't strong, or in most cases played, in tis format.

reanimator doesn't need threat density because its threats completely outclass even tarmogoyf. and put them on a very short clock very fast. eliminating many of their options. its virtual card advantage.

although, since, it doesn't have the blinding speed of a combo deck, in a real meta someone may have to try to fit some disruption in. although, i think that idea has been thrown out before.

rleader
05-27-2008, 12:44 PM
Boseiju? LOL

If someone wants to play this deck (or can only play this deck) in a counter-top heavy meta, they might want to make certain concessions. By saying Boseiju, I didn't mean just plop it in the deck in place of an island or two, but maybe make changes like Life / Death for Reanimate, too, maybe with makeshift mannequin in the sideboard (not bad with Simic Sky Swallower).

Mr Wiggl3s
05-27-2008, 01:04 PM
I've been testing this deck with some changes to the landbase and some disruption added, also i pretty much have 1 open slot for a creature (nishomba is ok... but it's w/e)

I'll be trying it out at a black lotus tourney coming up

rodgon666
05-27-2008, 02:23 PM
so i took the deck with some changes ( enginneered explosives main in the 3 slot) to the PTQ hollywood side event, with 90 something people, and ended the day with 5-3 record ending in 12th place.

the matches i had were as follows:

Round 1: Stifle Nought: lost 1-2 unfortunately no testing done agaisnt the deck and didnt rund into my bounce or explosives in time, his fatty is bigger.. hahaha

Round 2: b/g/w Thresh: Won 2-0. Going first and second turn reanimate for symic wins me game 1, game 2 braingorgers beat through a Countertop and a show and tell for a dragon seals the game

Round 3: Iggy pop: 0-2 Game 1 i get him to 1 and he explodes in my face, game 2 i manage to keep him off his lands for 4 turns, he top decks a land and proceeds to kill me... bad matchup...

Round 4:Affinity 2-0 he goes land ornithopter, worker, chrome mox, frogmite, disciple... i then reanimate a dragon and wipe his team and he scoops. game 2 i get an early Back to basics and demolish him with sundering titan.

Round 5:Painters servant/ grindstone combo: 2-0 Game 1 he gets the combo out but i manage to kill his lands before he goes off and i beat him. Game 2 stifles and sundering titan hold off his lands and he cant do much at all.

Round 6:b/g/U Thresh: 1-2 I have to admit this version with black is a little harder to play against, game 1 triple thoughtsieze and double force over the first 4 turns slow me down enough that i cant answer his goyf and mongoose.
Game 2 a timely show and tell for a Symic wins the game ( it seems like they dont have an answer for your critters at all) Game 3, i misplay only paying 2 mana to an engineered explosives instead of 3 ( two balck one blue give it only 2 counters and make it enable to counter with Counterbalance) and hiw entire team of double goyf beats me down... booo...

Round 7:Belcher: 2-0 first game he goes for the Empty the warrens route and explosives kill his tokens., after that he cant recover before he dies. Same thing exactly game 2, excpt i have 2 stifles in hand.

Round 8: Angel Stax:2-0 First game its easy as pie, all he plays is 2 supression fields and a smokestack too late to do anything, game 2 he manages to almost lock me out with smokestak and trinisphere but braingorgers swing for the win


The explosives worked rather nicely against Stacks, belcher and would have versus thresh and Stifle nought, so i believe it does solve the counterbalance issue if you play it right,

having back to basics in the sideboard helped also, just remember to fetch for your basics.

Pltnmngl
05-29-2008, 10:55 AM
So what changes did you make after the tourney? How are you going to handle those bad matchups?

Mr Wiggl3s
05-30-2008, 01:48 PM
If the opposing player has a forest and swamin in play and i have 3x sundering titans that come into play

Do i have to kill off one of my sea's?

Team-Hero
05-30-2008, 04:11 PM
I think you do

Mr Wiggl3s
05-30-2008, 04:16 PM
I was thinking i could target them only as swamps and not islands and get away with that

Sanguine Voyeur
05-30-2008, 04:19 PM
If the opposing player has a forest and swamin in play and i have 3x sundering titans that come into play

Do i have to kill off one of my sea's?If I understand you correctly, you are putting at least one Sundering Titan into play with your opponent controlling a Forest and a Swamp and you control an Underground Sea.

If that's what you're saying, then yes, you must choose a mountain, swamp, island, plains, and forest. If there is only one island out, you must choose that. You can, however, choose a land for multiple land types to spare your own. You can choose an Underground Sea as a swamp and/or an island.

Mr Wiggl3s
06-02-2008, 07:59 AM
Well here's how my tourney went

Game 1 im playing some guy i've seen before, he's a cool dude but IDK what he's playing (i hardly know what im playing)

Round 1
Game 1
I get out a SSS or a hellkite turn 2, he soon scoops
Game 2
I get out a imp for a SSS turn 2, straight beats as he trys to find 2 chainers edits

2-0
Round 2
Im playin my homie and his U/G/w thresh, he's won the comp a few times for some sexy beta duals
Game 1
I get out a SSS turn 2 and daze his counters
Game 2
See game 1
2-0

Round 3
Im playin this dude with some awesome deck, Diamond of the Night, or Diamond into the Night, something like that (betta reconigze)
Game 1
He gets countertop going with runed halo and i scoop
Game 2
I go
+2 Wipe Away
-1 Nishomba
-1 Oona
and i get on him with straight Oonas beats IIRC
Game 3
I go
+1 Nishomba
+1 Oona
+4 Show and Tells
-4 Animate Dead
I get something out turn 2 or 3 and just go straight beats
2-1
3-0 overall

Round 4
Im playin some dude with a heavily modded Rock he says
Game 1
He gets to much hand control for me to come back

Game 2
I dont know what to side in so i just put in some stupid card and take out nishomba i think
I get straight beats on him with a turn 2 animate deaded Sundering Titan

Game 3
It was pretty much a stnad still neither of us can get anything going and i think he ends up winning with some 4/4 elephant that gains you 4 life when it comes into play; that was a good matchup
1-2
3-1 overall

Round 5
Im playin this dude i've never seen here before with painters stone, im knowing that i need to get a Sundering titan out early to attempt to have a chance
Game 1
He enlightens turn 1 for the painters or grindstone, i forgot which
Turn 2 he lays down a Ancient Tomb and sets himself up for the next turn
I get out a Sundering Titan and take out his non basic giving me a extra turn
He topdecks a fetch.... :mad: lol
Game 2
This is where i need to side in those 4 stifles i dont have. All i had was energy flux, only thing that i would almost have a chance with
He turn 3's me again

Round 6
Im playin 43 land or something like that, i lost game 1 and dropped

Welp thats it, i need stifle and i'll be doing alot better, ill post a decklist later

Team-Hero
06-02-2008, 02:14 PM
Consider Needle vs. Stifle. Stifle helps a lot during the combo matchup, but Needle hates on a lot of other things like Top, Crypt, Grindstone, Survival, etc.

Mr Wiggl3s
06-02-2008, 07:08 PM
Here she is... This is IMO the better build, sorry rod :)


// Lands
5 [TE] Swamp
1 [PT] Island

3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [ON] Polluted Delta

4 [U] Underground Sea
2 [5E] Underground River

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Oona's Prowler
4 [TO] Putrid Imp

4 [DIS] Simic Sky Swallower
4 [TSP] Bogardan Hellkite
2 [DS] Sundering Titan
1 [FD] Bringer of the Blue Dawn

1 [CHK] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker (just for fun times)

// Spells
3 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Careful Study
3 [NE] Daze

4 [US] Exhume
4 [TE] Reanimate
4 [4E] Animate Dead

enemyofarsenic
06-06-2008, 07:15 AM
How about incorporating stifle+phyrexian dreadnought in reanimator?

4815162342
06-06-2008, 01:38 PM
How about incorporating stifle+phyrexian dreadnought in reanimator?


I honestly don't think this is needed. It is a little situational as you need both stifle and Dreadnought in hand. On top of that it has no evasion and no real ability. Its pretty much a no go. I mean it gets chumped all day.

raharu
06-06-2008, 01:46 PM
I honestly don't think this is needed. It is a little situational as you need both stifle and Dreadnought in hand. On top of that it has no evasion and no real ability. Its pretty much a no go. I mean it gets chumped all day.
Not as a 12/12 with tample it doesn't.

enemyofarsenic
06-06-2008, 05:08 PM
I honestly don't think this is needed. It is a little situational as you need both stifle and Dreadnought in hand. On top of that it has no evasion and no real ability. Its pretty much a no go. I mean it gets chumped all day.

It has trample, what do you mean?

Mr Wiggl3s
06-07-2008, 08:45 PM
This deck vs dreadstill/stiflenought is a tough matchup.. just a FYI, that deck is good + thinkbind makes it hard to counter

<3 daze in here though

4815162342
06-07-2008, 11:13 PM
It has trample, what do you mean?

I probably mean that I am blind and can't read. :P Totally didn't read it right.

4815162342
06-08-2008, 02:27 PM
What do you guys think of shallow grave as a sideboard or even maindeck option?

1b instant

Return the top creature card from your graveyard into play. It gains haste. Remove it from the game at end of turn.

The way it is worded you are allowed to return a creature at the end of an opponents turn and it will stick around to see your turn. It is also very cheap instant speed reanimation and might allow the inclusion of cabal therapy to circumvent the remove from game part of the card. Not to mention it is another way to get around a crypt.

Mr Wiggl3s
06-08-2008, 09:13 PM
I guess, but i like having the option of bringing back my creatures. Also since its remove it wouldn't be able to target simic would it? In turn, simic would stay in play after the effect resolves

Soto
06-08-2008, 10:30 PM
No Simic would still go since Shallow Grave's second effect doesn't target.

Mr Wiggl3s
06-08-2008, 11:28 PM
Na dude its the same with STP it is being targeted

4815162342
06-09-2008, 12:05 AM
No you will have to remove it because it does not specifically target. It just says remove it at end of turn.

Mr Wiggl3s
06-23-2008, 07:53 AM
Any updates anyone?

rleader
07-04-2008, 12:46 PM
http://wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/products/Eventide/images/ijju242jj9_EN.jpg

Looks like a nice sideboard card.

Mr Wiggl3s
07-04-2008, 12:52 PM
Why..?

Elficidium
07-04-2008, 01:40 PM
Na dude its the same with STP it is being targeted
Seriously, watch out what you say in terms of rulings, especially when it's complete nonsense.

Mijorre
07-04-2008, 03:18 PM
Also: you do not get to keep the creature off Shallow Grave, see waylay for similar rulings.

Jaiminho
07-04-2008, 10:43 PM
Thanks for that, ass

Seriously, no one should ever say with 100% certainty anything wrong related to the game rules. Just makes other people confused. And if you still think people correcting you is bad, then simply don't even bother saying anything.

And it doesn't target when removing the creature from the game. Targets of a spell are only checked when playing and resolving. The delayed triggered ability won't target. Also, that card doesn't use Substance, so it would stick until the beginning of the next End of Turn step.

Mr Wiggl3s
07-05-2008, 01:55 AM
Seriously, no one should ever say with 100% certainty anything wrong related to the game rules. Just makes other people confused. And if you still think people correcting you is bad, then simply don't even bother saying anything.

And it doesn't target when removing the creature from the game. Targets of a spell are only checked when playing and resolving. The delayed triggered ability won't target. Also, that card doesn't use Substance, so it would stick until the beginning of the next End of Turn step.
Thats fine. When people say something about it, and be a dick, im going to point it out

Team-Hero
07-11-2008, 08:22 PM
Spirit of the Hearth is not a good choice for Reanimator or its sideboard. If you want to go that route, I would just run 4 Platinum Angels.

Mr Wiggl3s
07-14-2008, 02:05 PM
For a while now i've been pondering what i should put in as my 12th creature, and possibly my 11th

I think with eventide, its going to be doomsgape
http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=146010

seems like a good call.

Zach Tartell
07-14-2008, 02:14 PM
For a while now i've been pondering what i should put in as my 12th creature, and possibly my 11th

I think with eventide, its going to be doomsgape
http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=146010

seems like a good call.

How is that even worth thinking about? He might connect once - that doesn't seem like a good idea for Reanimator. I really don't understand the reasoning behind him.

Mr Wiggl3s
07-14-2008, 04:20 PM
uhh, sacing imps/onnas, sac himself for 10 life...

Sanguine Voyeur
07-14-2008, 04:25 PM
Why would you reanimate something with a huge draw back when you can reanimate something good?

Jaiminho
07-14-2008, 08:19 PM
Because instead of winning, he wants to not lose the game. Oh yeah, and he also wants to lose his discarding creatures. And the reanimated creature. It's a 2 card combo that works like Wrath of God + Stream of Life, but that requires much less mana.

Mister Agent
07-14-2008, 08:59 PM
Here she is... This is IMO the better build, sorry rod :)


// Lands
5 [TE] Swamp
1 [PT] Island

3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [ON] Polluted Delta

4 [U] Underground Sea
2 [5E] Underground River

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Oona's Prowler
4 [TO] Putrid Imp

4 [DIS] Simic Sky Swallower
4 [TSP] Bogardan Hellkite
2 [DS] Sundering Titan
1 [FD] Bringer of the Blue Dawn

1 [CHK] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker (just for fun times)

// Spells
3 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Careful Study
3 [NE] Daze

4 [US] Exhume
4 [TE] Reanimate
4 [4E] Animate Dead

I don't see how your build is better then Rod's build by any relevant point.

Daze is particularly not suited for reanimator because reanimator is not aggro control. Cabal therapy is probably the better call in that slot since it's proactive and casting a flashback one shouldn't be any problem with this deck.

Rod tests quite extensively and makes changes to his reanimator. Your build seems more thrown together and no offense attended.

Rod's reanimator is also more toolbox-esque which probably makes it substantially more flexible then your build. As well as Rod's build can be just as aggressive as yours.

Generally playing a more flexible deck can actually win you more games then you shouldn't win. Not saying that I am a expert on this archetype though.

cloudstrife7
07-14-2008, 11:02 PM
Excuse my neophitery on the subject, but looking through the forum i've seen a couple lists that throw down with buried alive. It seems like a very powerful card, and has been advocated as such. My question is: Why don't those lists play the Karmic Guide, Kiki-Jiki, Sky Hussar combo? You can get them all into the yard with a card you might want to use anyway, it only takes 3 slots, and wins the game immediately with very little effort.

Hana, The Deadly Flower
07-15-2008, 12:52 AM
That decklists needs better creatures. Even Spirit of the Night would do.

Jaiminho
07-15-2008, 01:15 AM
Pro black + Animate Dead isn't good.

Mr Wiggl3s
07-15-2008, 11:21 AM
Excuse my neophitery on the subject, but looking through the forum i've seen a couple lists that throw down with buried alive. It seems like a very powerful card, and has been advocated as such. My question is: Why don't those lists play the Karmic Guide, Kiki-Jiki, Sky Hussar combo? You can get them all into the yard with a card you might want to use anyway, it only takes 3 slots, and wins the game immediately with very little effort.

Because #1) intuition is buired alive + 1 and b) we dont run any spells that bring back all creatures in the GY to play

I don't see how your build is better then Rod's build by any relevant point.

Daze is particularly not suited for reanimator because reanimator is not aggro control. Cabal therapy is probably the better call in that slot since it's proactive and casting a flashback one shouldn't be any problem with this deck.

Rod tests quite extensively and makes changes to his reanimator. Your build seems more thrown together and no offense attended.

Rod's reanimator is also more toolbox-esque which probably makes it substantially more flexible then your build. As well as Rod's build can be just as aggressive as yours.

Generally playing a more flexible deck can actually win you more games then you shouldn't win. Not saying that I am a expert on this archetype though.
Everyone use to run cabal therapy, but soon found out that it wasn't really worth running, it's been cut from all playlists including the one that top 8'd a big tourney IIRC

I've done my testing :wink: and actually did pretty good in a tourney, my SB was thrown together and i lost because of it

cloudstrife7
07-15-2008, 11:33 AM
Because #1) intuition is buired alive + 1 and b) we dont run any spells that bring back all creatures in the GY to play


Actually, you only have to bring back the karmic guide, when it comes into play it brings back kiki, which targets it bringing back sky hussar, starting the chain.

Mr Wiggl3s
07-15-2008, 03:28 PM
Ah

I suppose you can mod this deck to do that, it's pretty slack as far as most goes

i've even been tryin some nicol bolas stuff

Willoe
07-15-2008, 05:33 PM
Nicol Bolas? You will have to either splash R or build a completely different deck. Sorry, but I don't think that works. With that low on lands, there are many games were you don't even reach 3 lands. That is intentional, I suppose.

Right now, the somewhat optimal creature base consists of:

4 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Bringer of the Blue Dawn
1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Garza Sol, Plague Queen
1 Phantom Nishoba
1 Sundering Titan

Yes, only ten creatures. That gives you more flexible slots. I think it's better being low on beefs, then being high on canTRIPS. (Intended wordplay). But I'm serious, I play with sixty cards, 4 brainstorm and 10 creatures. I think it's better than 61 cards, 11/12 creatures and only 3/4 brainstorms. 4, always. Not in every deck, but in this one, for the love of god. Noone likes sitting with a dead reanimation target, you should be able to reanimate it as soon as it hits the grave.

Right now, the worst creatures in my base are Sundering Titan and Akroma. But they are absolutely necessary, and in matchups where they aren't good, either of them gets sideboarded out for 2 more Phantom Nishoba. (against very aggressive decks, this dude can even beat storm combo if you do it fast enough)

Linkin Pac
07-17-2008, 02:12 PM
Greetings! I've played Reanimator for years and have been following this forum for some time, so I figured I'd drop some comments and look for some advice.

Willoe, that is a versatile list of creatures, but I've noticed that those sets of creatures only work well with a strong suite of tutors, such as Intuition or Buried Alive. What else do you currently use in your deck? And do you think having a bunch of one-of's is better than having multiples of powerful creatures (Akroma/Nishoba/Hellkite/Simic Sky Swallower)?

I found this deck by Roberto Novello on deckcheck.net that recently got 2nd in a 22 person tourney. It takes the power over versatility route, and uses some controversial cards, such as Cabal Therapy and Mystical Tutor, but it looks very solid:

Land (18)
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
4 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Swamp
4 Underground Sea

Creatures (17)
4 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
3 Hapless Researcher
1 Phantom Nishoba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Verdant Force

Spells (26)
4 Brainstorm
1 Echoing Truth
3 Mystical Tutor
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Careful Study
2 Duress
4 Exhume
1 Ponder
4 Reanimate
1 Show and Tell

Sideboard
2 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
1 Wipe Away
1 Show and Tell
2 Sickening Dreams
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Pithing Needle

The first thing I notice is the lack of Bogardan Hellkites. They seem to be better nowadays than Akroma since they only need to hit play to start doing damage, regardless if they're STP'd. Akroma is just too easy to hit with STP. Perhaps 3 of the Akromas and the Verdant Force could be replaced with Bogardan Hellkites.

Instead of maximizing the Careful Studys, he chose to run Hapless Researchers, which also have synergy with the Cabal Therapies. They can also serve as a turn one solution to Lackey, so I like the inclusion.

The Mystical Tutors add a toolbox approach to the deck, though much faster than the toolbox effect of Buried Alives and Intuitions. Frequently you can run into problems where you have multiple discard outlets in your hand but no reanimation spells or vice versa, so Mystical Tutor smooths out the jankiness of the deck. It also works well with a Hapless Researcher already in play from the first turn; second turn you can Tutor for Reanimate, activate the Researcher, draw your Reanimate, discard a fattie and Reanimate. The Tutors also let you find the Echoing Truth and Show and Tell when they're needed.

I'm also not a fan of 61 card decks, so I would probably just cut the Ponder since it seems kind of random. Also, does anyone have any thoughts on Repeal vs. Echoing Truth and Duress vs. Thoughtseize? I personally like Thoughtseize more since it can also serve as a discard outlet, though this deck hates losing any more life than it has to. I'm not sure about the Repeal; it adds card-drawing but is much worse than Echoing Truth at dealing with Leylines.

Mr Wiggl3s
07-17-2008, 04:28 PM
Do you really think Verdant Force is a win condition? We use to run Symbiotic Wurm which was decent with therapy and STP's n such

Linkin Pac
07-18-2008, 05:00 PM
^ I would definitely remove the Verdant Force, as he's really only good against Stax, and replace him with a Bogardan Hellkite. In fact, I might even take out three Akromas as well and switch them for Hellkites, since Hellkite and SSS seem to be the best reanimation targets recently.

Willoe
07-19-2008, 06:37 AM
Do you really think Verdant Force is a win condition? We use to run Symbiotic Wurm which was decent with therapy and STP's n such

Reading cards ftw. STP removes, not destroys. :rolleyes:

Linkin Pac:

Yes, I play some Intuitions mainboarded. Can't find my list atm, I'll post it later. It's simply Rod's list with sixty cards instead. Almost.

Linkin Pac, why do you play Hapless Researcher? It really sucks, you should play 4 Careful Study, no Duresses, and maybe even no Cabal Therapies. Your goal is to be as offensive as possible, if you aren't, you should really play another deck, like Dreadstill or Dreadfish.

blacklotus3636
07-21-2008, 03:02 AM
Just out of curiosity why would anyone play reanimator ever? With the slots colors and cards this deck uses why would you bother reanimating akroma? If I have buried alive or intuition + reanimation spell you can just win with a stack like: kiki jiki, karmic guide and carrion feeder. Not to mention you get to add alot more draw and countermagic to make it more consistent and protect it better. Decks like this are really alot like combo decks without the speed or brokenness because even after you drop an akroma or any other beater in play you still have to wait like 3-4 turns to kill them. Burn works in a similar way, it kills around turn 4-5 which technically qualifies it as slow combo but it has none of the resilience or speed of the better combo decks. In my opinion if a glass cannon like reanimator or burn was successful you probably could have taken something like spring tide or bridge from below thats alot more powerful and consistent and win. They have similar enemies but both die pretty quickly if the correct hate shows up. If the hate isn't there play the most balls out kind of deck you can find that dies to the non-existant hate. If there is hate you probably shouldn't be playing bridge or reanimator.

I don't mean to come off like a dick I'm just trying to understand why this would be better than something else thats alot more focused and powerful with similar weaknesses.

By the way, reanimator might actually be its own deck if something like entomb were legal

rodgon666
07-21-2008, 03:33 AM
Just out of curiosity why would anyone play reanimator ever? With the slots colors and cards this deck uses why would you bother reanimating akroma? If I have buried alive or intuition + reanimation spell you can just win with a stack like: kiki jiki, karmic guide and carrion feeder. Not to mention you get to add alot more draw and countermagic to make it more consistent and protect it better. Decks like this are really alot like combo decks without the speed or brokenness because even after you drop an akroma or any other beater in play you still have to wait like 3-4 turns to kill them. Burn works in a similar way, it kills around turn 4-5 which technically qualifies it as slow combo but it has none of the resilience or speed of the better combo decks. In my opinion if a glass cannon like reanimator or burn was successful you probably could have taken something like spring tide or bridge from below thats alot more powerful and consistent and win. They have similar enemies but both die pretty quickly if the correct hate shows up. If the hate isn't there play the most balls out kind of deck you can find that dies to the non-existant hate. If there is hate you probably shouldn't be playing bridge or reanimator.

I don't mean to come off like a dick I'm just trying to understand why this would be better than something else thats alot more focused and powerful with similar weaknesses.

By the way, reanimator might actually be its own deck if something like entomb were legal

im back here after a couple of months and see it all go to the crapper hahaha.

good luck winning against a crypt with the karmic guide list, much less an extirpate.

if you want to know y the deck wins go read more of the thread, im not going to explain for the millionth time y its a better option than spring tide or breakfast.

Please use proper capitalization, punctuation, and grammar. Welcome back.

-PR

raharu
07-21-2008, 08:03 PM
im back here after a couple of months and see it all go to the crapper hahaha.

good luck winning against a crypt with the karmic guide list, much less an extirpate.

if you want to know y the deck wins go read more of the thread, im not going to explain for the millionth time y its a better option than spring tide or breakfast.

Please use proper capitalization, punctuation, and grammar. Welcome back.

-PR
If they already have a crypt on the table, why would you go for the combo. Also, derp, that Burried Alive stack kills turn 4. Not comes close, not deals lots of damage, but KILLS THEM DEAD on turn four, perhaps turn 3 if one was to incorperate Chrome Moxen. This engine + a regular reanimator deck would be much better than reanimator as a stand-alone concept. The engine in a shell with more countermagic could work better, but since counter-fatty has never been tested I won't say that fer sure.

Also, you have never given a reason to play Reanimator over breakfast or spring tide, because the question has never been asked. Don't over dramaticize your arguments, because doing so makes you look illogical, defensive, and forces the perception that you're over-zealous in promoting your pet-deck (which you really are, but that's not the point I'm tryig to get across. It's obvious you'll never be objective in regards to this deck, I've already acknowledged that, if not accepted it).

Xurcks
07-21-2008, 09:07 PM
A while ago , i was trying a new twist of reanimator that used 2 mana producing lands , like Ancient Tomb , Chrome Mox and packed the combo (Karmic,Kiki and Sky Hussar) along with some reanimator targets and MD along with Buried Alive Show And Tell that could win on turn 2 if not disrupted , with more SB bogardans and simic , along with some other meta cards.
What do you think of this idea?I will try to find the old decklist...

raharu
07-21-2008, 09:57 PM
A while ago , i was trying a new twist of reanimator that used 2 mana producing lands , like Ancient Tomb , Chrome Mox and packed the combo (Karmic,Kiki and Sky Hussar) along with some reanimator targets and MD along with Buried Alive Show And Tell that could win on turn 2 if not disrupted , with more SB bogardans and simic , along with some other meta cards.
What do you think of this idea?I will try to find the old decklist...
Yep, that was pretty much what I was thinking. I'm actually interested in seeing how it would look, so yes, please do attempt to find it.

rodgon666
07-22-2008, 02:54 AM
Also, you have never given a reason to play Reanimator over breakfast or spring tide, because the question has never been asked. Don't over dramaticize your arguments, because doing so makes you look illogical, defensive, and forces the perception that you're over-zealous in promoting your pet-deck (which you really are, but that's not the point I'm tryig to get across. It's obvious you'll never be objective in regards to this deck, I've already acknowledged that, if not accepted it).


Want a reason?

Plain and simple preference.

2 different decks, 2 different strategies which are waaaaaay different to be even compared, ive been beat by it and ive beat it as well. but no real reason to compare them, it depends on what type of deck you like, and prefer.


simple enough for ya???

thefreakaccident
07-22-2008, 03:28 AM
OMFG!! Rodrigo!

Where have you been?!

I got tired of totally dominating the tourney without contention... what a relief that I will actually have t try.


Also, has the original creator have any more profound logic/ new tech to come?

Also, do you think that any of the new sets will contribute at all?

rodgon666
07-23-2008, 03:31 AM
nothing significant to really talk about with the new sets, maybe a couple creatures to look out for, like the flying lifelinker and some others, but nothing that really is just an auto add on.

one thing i do see though is massive MASSIVE graveyard hate coming from every color, it used to be only black we had to be careful with but now its every freaking color. its just funny.