[Deck] Reanimator [Archive] - Page 8

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chokin

07-02-2010, 06:26 PM

How good/bad would Impulse (or Peer Through Depths if keeping secrets is less important) be for those people who do not like the life loss of LDV? And what is the average loss of life for LDV? I was all set to buy Reanimator until Mystical Tutor was banned. I'm not saying the deck is now awful, but it is undeniable that the deck has lost a lot of raw power (Tutor bullets, consistent Entombs, etc).

It seems some people have just tried changing the deck by increasing the creature count and going the Careful Study/Ideas Unbound route, which is fine, but after testing it out, it feels less picky which could lead to suboptimal creatures being reanimated (Like finding Iona instead of another creature you want).

RexFTW

07-03-2010, 01:36 AM

i usually pay 0-2 life to get the absolute nuts

practical joke

07-04-2010, 02:17 AM

and if you decide to run more cantrips,

go get your hands on preordain.

You could play up 12 1-mana cantrips (excluding careful study here), if that doesn't give what you want, I don't know what does.

actually I do, but those are banned

videogamer99

07-05-2010, 12:59 AM

So,
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107035&d=1278302906

Green splash gonna be better than before? I didnt like it, but this stops bounce, kill spells, and lets you combo more efficiently.

The_Red_Panda

07-05-2010, 03:14 AM

Seriously? That's strictly worse than Orim's Chant.

practical joke

07-05-2010, 03:31 AM

Interesting card, that's about the best I can say about it.

high likely not worth it to play since Xantid Swarm is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY better

Shabbaman

07-05-2010, 05:02 AM

A turn two LDV for Entomb, lose ~3 life, turn three Entomb + Reanimate is no where near as strong.

For 3 life you've looked at the top 20 cards of your deck. If you need that much life to find one of your four Entombs you are pretty unlucky. Plus you can set up a reanimation target plus Careful Study if you find these two in the same stack of five. It's most definately not as strong as Mystical Tutor, but it's not a poor choice. And it's not slower than Ideas Unbound, and digs deeper.

lordofthepit

07-05-2010, 05:37 AM

Seriously? That's strictly worse than Orim's Chant.

It's worse, but not strictly worse (probably the most overused phrase on these forums). You can use this reactively to counter your opponent's counterspells after you know your opponent has one, whereas Orim's Chant only "does something" if your opponent has a counter.

The_Red_Panda

07-05-2010, 06:06 AM

So it's G: Counter target blue or black spell that's countering a spell you control, or targeting a creature you control. Granted, it's not ACTUALLY strictly better than Orim's Chant, but if you're using it re-actively, I'm now fairly sure it's worse than Spell Pierce, in about 90% of cases.

So yes, I was using a cliche incorrectly. It's still not going to make the cut.

IamPhil

07-05-2010, 03:50 PM

Went undefeated at my local event tonight. R.I.P. Mystical Tutor, you've won me many games. It turns out, Mystical for FoW (with no other blue cards) is one of the greatest mind tricks that can no longer be used.

Truth. :cry:

RexFTW

07-05-2010, 03:52 PM

So,
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107035&d=1278302906

Green splash gonna be better than before? I didn't like it, but this stops bounce, kill spells, and lets you combo more efficiently.

This card is a combination of avoid fate and orim's chant, although it does not stop white removal and can be used after they have used their force. I think dispel may be strictly better though because it is on color and can counter white removal.

Knoll

07-06-2010, 07:28 PM

The following list made top4 last weekend in a 138 man tourney! We are still alive Wizard! (link -> http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=175 )

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Personal Tutor
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Careful Study
1 Show and Tell
1 Turbulent Dreams
3 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Entomb
2 Thoughtseize
1 It That Betrays
1 Terastodon
1 Blazing Archon
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Island

Sideboard:
1 Animate Dead
1 Show and Tell
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Perish
1 Reverent Silence
1 Gilded Drake
1 Realm Razer
2 Moment’s Peace
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Null Rod
2 Pithing Needle

Lez discuss about it guys since it presents some interesting choices like turbulent dreams & an interesting cantrips/SB setup made to improve PT.

alderon666

07-06-2010, 08:05 PM

Personal Tutor is the thing to discuss here.
Is it good enough even despite not being able to fetch Entomb? It gets our singletons online I suppose, just in a slower... more predicatable way.

Is 7 creatures + 4 Careful Study + 4 Personal Tutor + 1 Turbulent Dreams + 4 Entomb enough discard spells to grant us turn 2/3 fatties into play?

How often are you going to be reanimate subpar creatures because you didn't have Entomb to choose which one you would reanimate?

Having access to singleton sorcery is surely a plus. Show and Tell is a formidable way to circunvent hate. Is this better than the LDV builds? Those could be somewhat slow, but they tend to get you the fattie you need into play T3, how does this build compare to that?

Jon Stewart

07-08-2010, 11:30 AM

Question:

Say the opponent has a Leyline of the Void in play.

I cast Turbulent Dreams discarding an Iona in order to bounce the Leyline to their hand.

Does the Iona end up in the yard, or is it removed from the game because it was technically discarded while the Leyline was still in play?

If it's the former, Turbulent Dreams seems like the perfect sideboard choice for the versions of the deck that are maindecking 8+ creatures (along with Ideas Unbound and Animate Dead).

thickasabrick

07-08-2010, 11:55 AM

RexFTW

07-08-2010, 01:00 PM

Deviruchi

07-08-2010, 01:54 PM

keys

07-08-2010, 02:18 PM

#2, hence the Misty Rainforest and Verdant Catacombs.

RexFTW

07-08-2010, 02:48 PM

What is the reason of 1 Dryad Arbor in the sideboard ?

1. To suprise attacking Dark Confidant? (or block something)
2. To avoid:
a) Curfew from UW Tempo?
b) Gatekeeper of Malakir from Eva Green/The Gate/Deadguy Ale?
c) Innocent Blood from Ubg Landstill?

Did I answer myself or I missed something? And another question: how effective this counter strategy really is?

These are all good reasons. Might add surprise block lackey as well. He can also help you "race" with a resolved iona by chump blocking a Tarmogoyf or similar.

The most important issue is probably warren weirding.

jazzykat

07-09-2010, 03:27 AM

comeback

07-09-2010, 04:24 AM

IMHO there are some consideration about the need of this card related to the Re-Animator strategy.

It's a cc2 card so:

- you can play it in T1 if your strategy is to combo ASAP and you r playing a petal-ritual list
- you can play it in T2 or T3 if your strategy is to control up to combo

In the first case you won't to spend two mana for this card just 'cuz it's not part of your strategy while in the second there is no reason to protect a card like this or spend two mana without playing a cc1 or cc2 cantrip/tutor.

How many copies? I suppose from 2 to 3 that mean cut off cantrip or study and reduce U pitches...

Other considerations are about how it works and how it can advantage the opponents but I'll speak only about the control version...

- You draw twice but card works only if u have a creature in hand so you have to wait until you are able to discard a cow but what are u going to discard in the meanwhile? protection or reanimate stuff? maybe just entomb or daze but I sincerely use these cards to protect a LDV in order to create the correct draws with a brainstorm pile...

- What's happen when zoo draw twice? Bolt bolt bolt and we can't use reanimate, In add we need to exhume Iona White or a shroud creature 'cuz there is the possibility opponent has STP... and how we win the race if he play Goyf Goyf?

- What's happen when Canadian draw twice? Waste stlife bolt bolt...

IMHO vs with this card in play, vs Aggro you can't win the race and vs control or denial you are not able to contrast it!

RexFTW

07-09-2010, 11:03 AM

It seems like anvil may be a great card to side in. Against some strategies it will help your opponent (Dredge, mirror come to mind first). However it would seem that against common sideboard plans of 4 faerie macabre that it acts as multiple discard outlets. Also note that you must keep a fairly high fatty count to make this work.

menace13

07-09-2010, 12:31 PM

I am just going to throw out random stuff like Chains of Mephistopheles ( if only i would learn how to link these things). This is a card i have only bothered playing with once(well lots of cards fall here) because it is way too complicated and screws up my Brainstorms. Has seen play, although small. But i figured since we all got excited over a Howling Mine (damm that link thing is really diminishing the impact) we could try not giving anyone a free draw and instead just do useless and redundant things with our Careful studies.

Jon Stewart

07-09-2010, 01:25 PM

Serious question here. Why haven't we tried Anvil of Bogardan? Our opponents get sift, but we get sift and creature binning every turn...? I think the deck would have to move in a different direction with a little more life protection but it could be quite nice?

Anvil is not a bad suggestion, but it takes too long imo and it also helps your opponent draw into hate before it helps you draw into creatures to bin. If it somehow let you draw and discard a card the same turn it came into play, it would be a different story.

Compare it to Ideas Unbound. For the same casting cost, you get the equivalent effect of three turns of Anvil's effect instantly, and without helping your opponent draw into more hate at all. You're pretty much guarenteed to draw into and discard a creature that very same turn, and if you have a spare mana, can reanimate it right then and there as well.

RexFTW

07-09-2010, 01:39 PM

Compare it to Ideas Unbound. For the same casting cost, you get the equivalent effect of three turns of Anvil's effect instantly, and without helping your opponent draw into more hate at all.

The thing is, you discard those 3 cards one at a time, so they all get crushed by the same crypt!

problem with anvil: they get to discard guys also, this makes exhume worse.

RexFTW

07-13-2010, 11:11 AM

I saw some games with a guy playing hapless researcher instead of careful study. It was very interesting because it gave him built in edict protection (random 1/1s in your deck do that) as well as a good way to play around any yard removal that is not Leyline.

He lets you exhume, then when the opponent crypts let it resolve, then use researcher to bin another guy before exhume resolves. I am aware that you can do the same with entomb but that costs mana, can be countered and you can only play 4 entombs!

He also lets you turn 1 play him then not activate him until later, in games 2/3 you want to do it all in 1 turn to avoid sorcery speed things like boujoka bog.

All of this of course with the drawback of only seeing one additional card instead of two.

Smmenen

07-15-2010, 05:35 PM

Does anyone have a good Strategic PLanning Reanimator list?

menace13

07-15-2010, 08:13 PM

Does anyone have a good Strategic PLanning Reanimator list?

I don't think anyone does.

comeback

07-16-2010, 03:29 AM

Does anyone have a good Strategic PLanning Reanimator list?

This version:

-4 Mysticalt Tutor
+ 2 Strategic Plannning
+ 2 Sensei's Divining Top

and

-1 Show&Tell
-1 Bouncer
+2 Thoughtseize

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/19570_The_Long_and_Winding_Road_Reanimator_Thopters_and_a_Requiem_for_Mystical.html

jcsy

07-16-2010, 05:37 AM

Does anyone have a good Strategic PLanning Reanimator list?

Taken from

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/19633_The_Long_Winding_Road_Split_ArticleWhat_If_Zoo_versus_Reanimator.html

Maindeck:

Artifact Creatures
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Creatures
1 Blazing Archon
1 It That Betrays
1 Terastodon

Instants
4 Brainstorm
3 Dispel
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce

Legendary Creatures
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Sorceries
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
1 Show and Tell
2 Strategic Planning
4 Thoughtseize

Basic Lands
2 Island
2 Swamp

Lands
2 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs Sideboard:

1 Null Rod
3 Pithing Needle
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Echoing Truth
2 Reverent Silence
2 Show and Tell
1 Dryad Arbor

practical joke

07-17-2010, 08:40 PM

I start being impressed by SCG-posts when they come with:

1. decent knowledge of the legacy-environment
2. write decent articles about legacy
3. stop using non-effective cards in their decklists.

as been highlighted: strategic planics, like really. It's like putting whipped cream on a cheesebugger, you know it won't fit, yet you try it anyways.

I'ven't been able to take down some time to test the LDV replacement or the upped creature count lists to a full test yet, then again I've been busy with a G/B/W semi-rock list, and it works pretty fine up till now, but not enough tests/results have been created to put it out somewhere.
I'm not satisfied so far, neither have I've been with the newer U/B/g reanimate lists without mystical.

Well, I hope I get some time to get some testing done, but upcoming week will be filled with a lot of alcohol and parties. Since there's something going on in my city this week.

RexFTW

07-18-2010, 08:47 PM

Yeah strategic planning is bad. Your only options are Personal Tutor and Lim Duls Vault.

comeback

07-19-2010, 03:26 AM

My option is:

3x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Personal Tutor

I've tested also:

2x Lim-Dul's Vault
2x Personal Tutor

but multi copy of personal tutor are not necessary 'cuz once u've combo you rarely need:

- Thoughtseize
- Exhume

btw you shall be mana open the turn after reanimation so lim-dul's in up is better at least 80% of times.

RexFTW

07-19-2010, 04:48 PM

btw you shall be mana open the turn after reanimation so lim-dul's in up is better at least 80% of times.

agree 100%. Personal tutor is best on turn 1 and LDV for lining up a second renamiation. Lists with LDV should run 3-4 discard spells while lists with personal can get away with only 2.

Personal tutor is better for finding thoughtseize, LDV is better for setting up multiple cards (entomb and an exhume for example).

comeback

07-20-2010, 07:56 AM

agree 100%. Personal tutor is best on turn 1 and LDV for lining up a second renamiation. Lists with LDV should run 3-4 discard spells while lists with personal can get away with only 2.

Personal tutor is better for finding thoughtseize, LDV is better for setting up multiple cards (entomb and an exhume for example).

PT for Show & Tell.

In add, when your strategy is to play around graveyard, it's cool to reveal PT instead of Show&Tell when you'r resolving Lim Dul's, you have not to loss too much life finding the sigle MD Show&Tell!

Exodia3030

07-21-2010, 08:38 AM

So has anyone else here been thinking about playing Stormtide Leviathan over blazing archon ?

sillysam71

07-21-2010, 08:48 AM

I hadn't thought about Stormtide yet, but I think that It should be able to replace Blazing Archaon. Not only is it bigger so it has a faster clock, it's unblockable and can be pitched to Force of Will. If I end up playing Reanimator at Columbus, I'm definitely playing this. The only downside I see is if you decide to drop it against Goblins or Zoo and they sided in REB's.

Rune

07-21-2010, 08:48 AM

So has anyone else here been thinking about playing Stormtide Leviathan over blazing archon ?

Archon is in the deck because of Merfolk and Dredge.

Stormtide Leviathan = death to Lord of Atlantis, Coralhelm Commander and dread returned Iona

sillysam71

07-21-2010, 08:55 AM

I also just reallized that it lets Merfolk attack you directly if they have a Lord of Atlantis out, which might be bad.

practical joke

07-21-2010, 09:20 AM

Archon is by far superior to stormtide.

The one reason why, is that it is now a win when dropped pre-board. ( some merfolk play approx 2 bounce, most don't)

Stormtide does not.

Next to that, it stops fliers as well which stormtide doesn't.

Hence, a non-interesting card.

JCrawl85

07-21-2010, 09:39 AM

Strategic Planning is a good suggestion from SCG because they're selling it for $80 a card. PT and LDV are better.

If you're goal is to dig through the top of your deck and then discard a bunch of cards for 2 mana Breakthrough for 1 is better than Strategic Planning. Breakthrough also becomes much more relevant late game than Strategic Planning as well.

practical joke

07-21-2010, 09:48 AM

I think Ideas unbound surpasses the goal of breakthrough by far, I'd rather include that instead of breakthrough/planning

lep

07-21-2010, 11:32 AM

I don't think Stormtide Leviathan is an alternative to Blazing Archon but I have been trying to running it along side of Archon. They both perform similar functions but have their niche roles. Obviously pulling in a Stormtide against Merfolk is not the best of ideas but Stormtide against Zoo? Shorter clock means less ability to dig for a response. I upped my creatures to 2 Iona, 1 Inkwell Leviathan, 1 It That Betrays, 1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind, 1 Blazing Archon, 1 Stormtide Leviathan and 1 Terastodon

sillysam71

07-21-2010, 12:43 PM

Stormtide seems better than Archaon in all of the matched that you want it, except Merfolk. And with Merfolk being somewhat popular, Archaon cannot be completely replaced by Stormtide. In addition isn't a bad idea. Sideboard might even be relevant, also. It might not be a bad idea to have both in deck incase one gets removed.

menace13

07-21-2010, 01:02 PM

Breakthrough is so much worse than Planning. Unless the idea of discarding your whole hand aside 1 or 2 cards is the new way to go with Animator. Stormtide against Zoo is terrible in theory. I mean it would take 3 burn spells instead of 2 and it is unblockable for 8, but does the deck really want to open itself up to red blasts even more?
:eyebrow:

videogamer99

07-23-2010, 12:33 AM

So, what is everyone taking to the GP? Here is what I think that I'll be running.

Creatures
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Terastadon

Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Force of Will
4 Reanimate
4 Thoughtseize
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Echoing Truth

Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Bayou
1 Island

Sideboard
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Nature's Claim
2 Null Rod
2 Pithing Needle
2 Spell Pierce
1 Dryad Armor
1 Gilded Drake
1 Realm Razer

Anything better than Spell Pierce in the board here? Anything other creature that would be boardable?

comeback

07-23-2010, 04:25 AM

Are you going to play without a B plan that works around graveyard?

IMHO at least:

-1 Echoing Truth
+ 1 Show&Tell

In add just to tutoring a little more chosing your sorcery:

-1 Thoughtseize
-1 Careful Study
+2 Personal Tutor or Ponder

No Empyrial Archangel?

practical joke

07-23-2010, 06:20 AM

Get either akroma ( vs Any form of goblins) or empyrial.

since zoo will be quite present, those are quite strong creatures, especially as a second reanimation target.

menace13

07-23-2010, 06:30 AM

Get either akroma ( vs Any form of goblins) or empyrial.

since zoo will be quite present, those are quite strong creatures, especially as a second reanimation target.

Akroma is probably the better call against Goblins since it can attack the turn played,block and block Piley.

RexFTW

07-23-2010, 06:02 PM

Akroma is probably the better call against Goblins since it can attack the turn played,block and block Piley.

Wrong. Sphinx of the steel wind is the best creature against goblins. The lifelink is critical. (Protection from red as well but Akromas has that).

menace13

07-23-2010, 07:11 PM

Wrong. Sphinx of the steel wind is the best creature against goblins. The lifelink is critical. (Protection from red as well but Akromas has that).

Yes. And i answered him in ref to the 2nd target in a game? Like where his post states "for the 2nd reanimation target". But, good to know you're on the job..REXFTW.
While i am here.... Akroma can also prevent double Piledrivers from getting in there(rare but can happen).

RexFTW

07-23-2010, 07:20 PM

Anything better than Spell Pierce in the board here? Anything other creature that would be boardable?

I have not been impressed with spell pierce either. I would replace with Inquisition of kozilek or dispel. Both are good vs zoo.

videogamer99

07-24-2010, 12:07 AM

I made the following changes:

Mainboard
-1 Terastodon, -1 Inkwell Leviathan
+1 Empyrial Archangel, +1 It That Betrays

Sideboard
-2 Spell Pierce
+1 Akroma, Angel of Vengeance, +1 Terastodon

I still really havent had a problem against Zoo. I bring out Sphinx and I win unless he manages the double Path.

emidln

07-24-2010, 07:23 AM

I've been testing a white sideboard for 6 STP/Path and an ETutor package including Serenity, Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt and sometimes an Animate Dead. STP Path comes in for my 3 Spell Pierce, 3 Thoughtseize maindeck against Zoo (merfolk plan is slightly different) where 1-2 removal makes it nearly impossible for Zoo or Merfolk to race Inkwell Leviathan.

Captain Hammer

07-24-2010, 09:09 AM

Ideas Unbound has been FANTASTIC.

Why are people talking about crap like Strategic Planning and Breakthrough when a card like Ideas Unbound exist? :eyebrow:

menace13

07-24-2010, 09:56 AM

I have been testing Planning 3-4 of, along with 8 targets, 18 land(2/2basics 4 Sea). Often i would wish it was Careful Study, but having any other blue draw spell with it makes it pretty good. I can not get LDV to work with Thouhtseize and Reanimate. Maybe LDV build could use some SDTs that could also make Planning better as well. Ideas Unbound is worse than Planning being double uu and does not immediately bin a target to combo off of.

practical joke

07-24-2010, 01:37 PM

Wrong. Sphinx of the steel wind is the best creature against goblins. The lifelink is critical. (Protection from red as well but Akromas has that).

Against any goblin deck that uses warren weirding Akroma is even superior to the sphinx.
The problem with the sphinx is that it CANNOT block piledrivers.. If they somehow get 2 out, you'll die.

Akroma's hasty business has won me several games against R/b goblins.

Sphinx is awesome, but so is Akroma since she lowers the ammount of turns needed to kill an opponent by a full turn, everyone knows how crucial that 4th/5th turn against goblins can be!

I don't say akroma is the superior call standard, but if you have to put a creature in sideboard, make it akroma.
Sphinx mainboard simply wins more match-ups than akroma does, after sideboarding akroma can shine against decks were the sphinx cannot do it with the same strength, also it is a second creature to use as relic bait.

I've never had problems with double blue mana for anything. I once had a lack of blue mana completely, but that's just once! ( and at that point I had a full black-carded hand)
but then again, I play 4 petals, 3 seas, 2 basics ( one of each) and a single bayou. the rest is fetch.

videogamer99

07-25-2010, 10:18 AM

So, I've had a few people tell me that I should drop the 4tth Thoughtseize for the 4th Lim-Dul's Vault. What do people think is more important? The digging or the disruption/discard outlet?

Captain Hammer

07-25-2010, 12:09 PM

Ideas Unbound is worse than Planning being double uu and does not immediately bin a target to combo off of.

No it's not.

Strategic Planning doesn't bin creatures in your hand. Odds are, the creature you want to dump is not in the top three cards of your library.

But the odds of that creature being either in your opening 7 or the top 3 cards of your library are much much higher. With Ideas Unbound in the deck, and a large enough creature count and enough reanimate effects, LDV becomes completely unneccesary. You can focus on comboing out, rather than tutoring.

Basically, Ideas Unbound pretty much never fizzles, you always dump a creature or two with it. Strategic Planning fizzles very frequently, far more often than not.

This is why Ideas Unbound is better.

The UU part is a nonissue. I play a grand total of one nonblue source (one solitary basic swamp and I don't even need to do that), so it almost never matters that it's UU.

menace13

07-25-2010, 12:35 PM

I do not think it is better than Study(either Planning or Ideas). The focus is on comboing with Planning, some common piles are cantrip/protection/land and rarely the really nutty creature/animate/anything. With 8 targets it is easier and allows me to play entire deck off basic island and swamp, which may not be an issue to most, but online Wasteland is a top 3 card in terms of total showings.

Captain Hammer

07-25-2010, 07:13 PM

practical joke

07-26-2010, 04:28 AM

Of course it's not better than Careful Study. NO ONE claimed that it's better the Careful Study. Careful Study is the second best discard outlet in the deck, right after Entomb, and Ideas Unbound isn't that far from Careful Study in terms of powerlevel or mechanism.

The argument is that it's better than Strategic Planning, which imo it absolutely is.

It has a much much higher probability of getting a creature you need into your yard than Strategic Planning does, and it does it without needing to rely on another card/for less mana.

I do think lists playing 4 Careful Study, Ideas Unbound, more maindeck creatures and more reanimate effects (Animate Dead, Life/Death) would be much faster and more consistent than Lim Dul's Vault lists, Strategic Planning lists, Personal Tutor lists or Sensei's Top lists.

Sadly enough, they are less consistend. I've tested it. The problem is, that you rarely get to chose which creature you really want. Even if you are playing 4 iona maindeck. The deck with more discard/digging for creatures and more reanimates are far more aggressive and have potential to drop multiple threads fast. THAT can be it's great strength. (those deck should obviously run 4 show and tell sideboard)

mtgducks

08-01-2010, 07:18 AM

Tournament report on Summer- Mercadiade 2010

Hey guys. I finished second in a 131 man tournament in Hamburg, Germany on July, 24th.
I made little changes to the deck, piloting a three- of Lim-Dûl`s Vault and Personal Tutor. I also replaced Echoing Truth for a single Maelstrom Pulse which is tutorable even if it is a much slower solution than Truth was before.
I am very satisfied with this list and recommend you testing with it.

Here is the Deck list I piloted

Main deck (60 cards)
Lands (17)
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island

Creatures (7)
3 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Sphinx of the steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Inkwell Leviathan

Spells (36)
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Careful Study
3 Personal Tutor
3 Lim-Dûl’s Vault (LDV I hate tipping this…)
2 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Show and Tell

Sideboard (15 Cards)
3 Null Rod
3 Duress
3 Ravenous Trap
2 Show and Tell
2 Perish
2 Spell Pierce

IMO this is very close to the best build for the moment. I changed one thing after the tournament
-1 Personal Tutor, +1 Thoughtseize
Due to thoughtseize being more a heck of a card in the tournament than personal tutor and 5 tutors are fine too I think.

For the reasons why I played this deck: I started tournament Magic with a reanimator deck 3 years ago and I think this deck has the potential to crush every other deck. So it is a valid choice for the German metagame with many different decks.

Before coming to the detailed report I give you a short summary of the decks I played against with the outcome and my sideboardings (as far as I remember them correctly).

Round 1 – Merfolk – win 2:0 (-1Iona 1 Sphinx 3 daze, + 3 Null Rod 2 Spell Pierce)
Round 2 – Dredge – win 2:0 (-2 thoughtseize 1 Leviathan, +3 Trap)
Round 3 – Armageddon Stax – win 2-1 (on the draw: -3 daze 1 leviathan 1 reanimate 2random + 3 duress 2 spell pierce 2 show and tell, on the play: leaving dazes in, taking out a tutor 1 Iona and a show and tell)
Round 4 – UW-Control – win 2:1 (- 1 careful study 1 LDV 1 sphinx, +3 duress)
Round 5 – Storm – lose 0:2 (- 1 careful study 1 leviathan 1 archon 1 show and tell 1 maelstrom pulse 1LDV, + 3 duress 3 null rod)
Round 6 – Boros-Aggro – win 2:0 (I thought he was playing zoo, so I boarded in 2 perish for a pulse and a LDV because I had just seen mesa, lynx and mountain in game 1)
Round 7 – Imperial Painter – win 2:1 (- 1LDV 1 personal tutor 1 pulse, +3 null rod)
Round 8 – Emreka – win 2:0 (-1 show and tell 1 personal tutor, +2 spell pierce)

Two side notes before starting the detailed report: The only other reanimator player in the tournament just played 2 personal tutor and 2 intuition. He also played a tropical island for 2 sideboard krosan grip. I saw the deck list before starting the tournament and told him about the bayou and tutor target pulse which he added to his deck list and was fine with it, too.
All the happenings are from my memory. I just wrote down forenames and the cards I saw via Thoughtseize, so if any of my opponents reads this and finds false information, feel free to correct me.

The report
Round 1 – Marc with Merfolk (with standstill) – die roll: me
Game 1 (Mulligans: 1 for me, 1 for him)
I start with fetch land go while he has a first turn curse catcher. I lay down land nr. 2 and play a careful study finding entomb. He misses his second land drop attacks and says go. I play a land and entomb Iona. He drops a land and swings for 1 but has no play. I reanimate Iona after laying down a 4th land, he has double daze and uses his curse catcher, but I just pay the mana getting Iona on blue into play.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 1 for him)
He starts with curse catcher again, I start with land go. He plays a standstill which I daze but he has Force. I draw a card and say go. Now he makes a big mistake by playing the just drawn lord of Atlantis which gives me a free ancestral so I can force his lord getting Iona into play the following turn.

Round 2 – Philipp with Dredge(afaik he plays dreadstill normally, so I expected DS ) – die roll: me
Game 1 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 0 for him)
My opening 7 were 4 Lands brainstorm Force and exhume, so I am fine with it expecting to play against dreadstill. I start with land go. He lays a putrid imp on his first turn, I thought some time responding with brainstorm hoping to find a daze or another pitch card and some useful stuff for the too many lands in my hand. Brainstorm shows me 3 lands, so Pimp resolves. I lay down a fetch land and say go. He discards stinkweed imp in his upkeep dredging for 5. I fetch end of turn to shuffle away the land on the top and draw a land the next turn. He dredges again, I draw a land after fetching eot (again…) and I am dead on his next turn.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 3 for him)
I play land go. He tries a first turn Pimp which got forced. I have a quick Iona so game 3 starts soon after game 2.
Game 3 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 0 for him)
Guess what, he starts with Pimp again(could be tribe I don’t remember which discard outlet it was…) which resolves due to me only having daze in hand. I play careful study discarding Iona. He dredges 5 cards finding a moeba and therapy. Because he has mana open the therapy resolves naming exhume, but I don’t have a reanimation spell. I brainstorm on my turn to find a reanimation spell, finding exhume and a trap. He dredges 5, discards 2 bridges and 2 imps before playing careful study. I trap in response exhuming Iona the following turn.

Round 3 – Hannes with stax – die roll: me
Playing against my best friend winning the die roll happened never before. Well playing against him happened before of course but I never won the die roll before. And stax is a deck which makes only fun if you are playing the deck.
Game 1 (Mulligans: 2 for me(2 times no land), 1 for him)
My 5 cards were: Iona, Archon, 2 lands and Reanimate. Lucky me winning the die roll… I keep play a land and say go. He has a first turn mox but not more. I topdeck study getting personal tutor and daze. He plays a ghostly prison which I daze. Iona on the following turn makes him scoop.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 0 for him)
He starts with mishra and tormod´s crypt. I entomb Iona and play reanimate to get rid of the crypt. He plays crypt and ghostly prison. I draw and say go. He gets prison no. 3. I play personal tutor on maelstrom pulse. He plays crucible of worlds which is fine for me having 2 basics in play. I pulse the prisons. He draw go. I thoughtseize him taking the oblivion ring leaving him a crypt. I am on low live but have a show and tell ready. I play eot LDV finding only a leviathan. I play the show and tell, he got a baneslayer angel into play and I am fucked.
Game 3 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 0 for him)
My opening 7 were 2 lands thoughtseize daze force entomb and some random card (but blue). Thoughtseize shows me: 3 lands crucible smokestack prison and crypt, I take the crucible away. He plays the top decked chalice which gets dazed and I force the crypt. I entomb Iona eot drawing daze on my turn. He plays smokestack which I daze getting Iona on my next turn on white. He plays the next smokestack, Iona hits, smokestack on 2 crucible, Iona hits, no play from him. I have no board left but drew 2 lands. He cannot afford the stack on 2 but has a trinisphere which get pulsed on my turn. He plays another trinisphere I respond via brainstorm finding exhume.
Note: This was the hardest match of magic I had and we topdecked like champions. I just want to give my thanks to my friend Hannes for the funniest and most exciting game I ever had. This Match really felt like an epic war in which you cannot say who has the upper hand before one is down.

Round 4 – David wit UW-Control - die roll: him
Game 1 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 1 for him)
I play 2 fetch lands and entomb on Iona while he has two islands and a plains in play. I play reanimate on Iona, he responds with brainstorm but let reanimate resolve. I name white and he scoops.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 1 for me, 1 for him)
Second game he starts with fetch land go. Thoughtseize shows me a land, new Jace, counterspell, absorb (counterspell for UUW with gaining 3 life for those not knowing the card), wrath and Elspeth taking the counterspell. He tries his Jace, which I daze, he forces I force back. Eot he plays an enlightened tutor on humility which resolves because there was no counter in my brainstorm. I do not find pulse in time while his Elspeth token flies over and over.
Game 3 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 0 for him)
I thoughtseize him first turn seeing 4 lands 2 forces and absorb taking a force. He plays land brainstorm go. I play fetch land go. He plays land go, too. I double fetch entombing Iona eot. I play exhume which gets forced. I have a reanimate which resolves. Iona forbids white and he scoops.

Round 5 – Jan with Storm (Ad Nauseam) – die roll: me
Game 1 (Mulligans: 1 for me, 0 for him)
I fetch and study. He has a first turn ponder. I play land go, he does the same. Eot I play a brainstorm finding the next study which I play on my turn but I still lack of entomb or a critter. He silences me which I force. He silences me again on the next turn which resolves and he goes off.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 1 for him)
I have and insane hand with double Null Rod and second turn Iona plus daze but my only land is a swamp. I go for Iona on black; he got his side boarded chains of vapor. He triple duresses me the next three turns taking both null rods and a force before going off again.

Round 6 – Amaury with Boros-Aggro – die roll: him
Game 1 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 1 for him)
He starts with plains lynx. I have a second turn Iona on white which is more than enough.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 0 for him)
First turn thoughtseize on him shows me a dead perish in my hand due to him not playing green but my 3rd turn Iona is enough again.
Note: I really went nuts here having Iona and Archon in the first game, and Iona and Sphinx in the second. Sorry for that Amaury.

Round 7 – Dennis with Imperial Painter – die roll: him
Game 1 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 1 for him)
He got a painter´s servant into play after I brainstormed in response and him leaving a red mana open. He names blue as I expected. I get Iona onto the battlefield the following turn by forcing his red blast on my reanimate. Iona names blue while I am at 10 life so the damage race is in my favor.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 1 for me, 1 for him)
He manages to get a top, a moon effect and a servant on blue into play and blasts all my relevant spells so I scoop.
Game 3 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 0 for him)
I play a thoughtseize on my 1st turn seeing mox, blast, magus of the moon, imperial recruiter, relic, city and mountain taking the blast after thinking carefully. He plays city of traitors mox with imprinting recruiter and goes for a blood moon which I daze. I play a careful study discarding Iona and Sphinx of the Steel Wind. He plays his Magus but I have force. Eot I play LDV finding exhume and get Iona on red which means good game.

Note: For the second game I boarded out both Sphinx leaving archon in, because my opponent seemed to have an alternative plan to moon effects and grindstone. Of course against a mono red deck Sphinx is game breaking. Usually I do not make such mistakes but I think the hard games before resulted in a lack of concentration here. I boarded both sphinxes back in for game 3.

Round 8 – Steffen with Emreka – die roll: him
Note for those not knowing the deck: It is an UBg combo deck playing petal and noble hierarchs as acceleration and getting Emrakul, Iona and sphinx onto the battlefield via Show and Tell or Eureka. It plays LDV as tutor plus discards and counters, so it is a similar deck to reanimator, but I think because of the faster kind it´s potential power are even higher than those of reanimator.
Game 1 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 1 for him)
He starts with land go. I play a first turn thoughtseize seeing ancient tomb, polluted delta, petal, Emrakul and eureka taking eureka. He topdecks LDV which he plays in my eot. I entomb Iona and have one mana open and a reanimate in hand but I decide to play around daze leaving a brainstorm and a force in my hand as other relevant cards. He tries Show and Tell which I force and get Iona on blue the next turn which flies over for the win.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 1 for him)
I have Blazing Archon in my opening hand and a thoughtseize, which I consider as good cards in this matchup. He starts with land go. I start with thoughtseize, he responds with brainstorm and I see Iona LDV 3 lands and eureka taking eureka. He plays a Show and tell and yells a loud “no” as I got the Archon against his Iona on black. His crucial mistake was boarding out his 2 echoing truth, so he has no out left in his deck for the Archon. I tell him I will dig for a Leviathan which he cannot block due to his Usea and tropical island so I got the handshake.

Unfortunately there weren´t Top 8 play offs so the report ends here. Now I am interested in your opinions. Tell me what you guys think about this deck list and if you think I made a crucial play mistake feel free to show it to me so I can improve my game.
Thanks for reading

comeback

08-02-2010, 04:16 AM

I'm really interested in testing your list, I've obtained a really negative result in a legacy side event @ National in Italy where I've played a list with the following difference from yours:

About Cantrip & Other Spells

- 1 Personal Tutor
- 1 Maelstrom Pulse

+2 Ponder
+1 Daze

About Cows

-1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
-1 Inkwell Leviathan
-1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

+1 Empyryal Archangel
+1 Terastodon

I've finished 0-3 (1:2 - 1:2 - 1:2) drop in a 100 players tournaments and about all the games I can comment:

- not flexibility about reanimate what I really need or just hope opponent does not draw a potential solution
- bouncer/mass removal maindeck is necessary

Just some questions about your sideboard:

3 Null Rod instead of 2 Null Rod & 1 Pithing Needle
Do u think u no need PN? I suppose that it could be a great tool vs Karakas, Planeswalker, Survival & Fearie Macabre

Perish vs Moment's Peace
Due to the fact u play 2 xG duals, what about Momen't Peace? It's not tutorable by PT & does not destroy opponent's creatures btw u can use it twice so just two "free attack" in the case our cow is there just to lock

Ravenous Trap vs Extirpate
Trap are there just for dredge, do u think u could replace it with Extirpate in order to use this slot also vs other mu?

mtgducks

08-02-2010, 08:55 AM

First I have to say that I think this deck needs a mass removal or bouncer maindeck which was echoing truth before. The best solution for this slot is pulse I think, because it does the same while lacking the speed (sorcery and more mana).

About the critters I can say that I hardly ever needed terastodon and I dislike empyrial archangel because of the only 5 power. Furthermore blazing archon has a similar effect as archangel and I cannot see a benefit for a 2-off critter which hasn´t an impact on every matchup. So this a 1-off for me and I consider archon he stronger creature. The decks I need a shroud guy against showed to have more problems with leviathan than having with archangel because swinging for 8 is not that hard for an aggressive legacy deck.
About playing only 7 critters makes careful study a much worse card so I think 7 is the minimum amount of flesh for using study properly. with archon and leviathan set there are 5 slots free and I think everyone agrees to at least 2 iona and a sphinx. Because we cannot rely on having entomb on first or second turn I added a third iona to the list (I even tested 4 but that was too much) and as far as I played with that I can say that this isn´t too much (I hardly remember drawing two in one game). Because sphinx is the best creature against zoo I decided to play it as a 2-off because sometimes they have double path but if they does they are lacking critters so I can find the second sphinx. The lifelink is crucial in nearly every matchup so you aren´t in that a great disadvantage if sphinx is your only reanimate target.
I cannot see a great benefit by using another creature in exchange for these 7, because I think that it that betrays akroma the new leviathan of m11 or another is superior enough in a common matchup to those I am currently using.

To the sideboard. Yes pithing needle is great against the examples you made but as a not-tutorable 1-off I think it is not worth the slot. Faerie macabre is a pain in the ass but not that much used as crypt or relic. Relying on a 1-off on which I could have to waste a LDV is not a good plan just because I can play against some not-commonly-used cards (most are only played in the board). As an answer to every sideboard- card they could bring in, you have still show and tell which is tutorable and far superior than pithing needle against the mentioned cards except Karakas.
Against decks with Karakas I use my shroud guy and thats normaly enough. Extirpate is a great card but speaking of non-dredge decks which rely on the graveyard I cannot see any which is disrupted that hard by extirpating the key cards or the deck is not commonly played enough.
I haven´t tested moment´s peace in the slots of perish. I can see the higher flexiability of the card because it buys two turns against merfolk for example and two turns are crucial in every matchup of course but I am not sure if it is reliable enough to be superior to perish.

RexFTW

08-02-2010, 02:58 PM

Yes. And i answered him in ref to the 2nd target in a game? Like where his post states "for the 2nd reanimation target". But, good to know you're on the job..REXFTW.
While i am here.... Akroma can also prevent double Piledrivers from getting in there(rare but can happen).

uhhh i would still say the best second creature to reanimate is still a second sphinx of the steel wind. It is not legendary.... gaining 12 life on your turn and 12 more when they attack seems good enough to stop double piledriver to me.... 24 life gained per turn.... Good to know you are on the job menace13.

Their biggest threat would be a double warren weirding or something like that so Terastodon is the next best option (targeting your lands) to give you sacraficial elephants and block piledrivers. Thanks come again.

RexFTW

08-02-2010, 03:06 PM

[Pithing needle] is not a good plan just because I can play against some not-commonly-used cards (most are only played in the board). .

Almost every deck plays activated abilities in the maindeck worth stopping. The notable exception is zoo and the biggest perpetrator is merefolk (usually 20+ cards there). Needle also shuts off top, wasteland, karakas, mutavault, cursecatcher and aether vial, not just faerie macabre. Note that only 2 of those are artifacts. Also note that needle costs 1 mana instead of 2 which is often the difference between going off 1-2 turns sooner (test it! you will see).

(before the QQ starts, needle on cursecatcher is pretty good if they start with 3)

Now, null rod does have many excellent uses vs combo and counterbalance/top decks however.

lep

08-02-2010, 03:13 PM

Almost every deck plays activated abilities in the maindeck worth stopping. The notable exception is zoo and the biggest perpetrator is merefolk (usually 20+ cards there). Needle also shuts off top, wasteland, mutavault, cursecatcher and aether vial, not just faerie macabre. (before the QQ starts, needle on cursecatcher is pretty good if they start with 3)

Shutting off KotR, Fetch Lands, Grim Lavamancer and Pridemage aren't necessarily a bad idea...

A zoo player getting an opening hand of Savannah, Arid Mesa, Steppe Lynx, and Pridemage is normally pretty damn good but take out that fetchland and it isn't nearly as explosive. I am not advocating randomly needling out fetchlands but in this circumstance it gains you a bit of tempo and buys you time to get your Sphinx online.

menace13

08-02-2010, 03:47 PM

uhhh i would still say the best second creature to reanimate is still a second sphinx of the steel wind. It is not legendary.... gaining 12 life on your turn and 12 more when they attack seems good enough to stop double piledriver to me.... 24 life gained per turn.... Good to know you are on the job menace13.

Their biggest threat would be a double warren weirding or something like that so Terastodon is the next best option (targeting your lands) to give you sacraficial elephants and block piledrivers. Thanks come again.

Oh, Wow. So you plan on telling me that I should go and put out a bunch of creatures that are not evasive as my next best option? And then nuke my own mana against a deck with 30 creatures and Vials. For fear of a double Weirding when Goblins will just grab Stingscourger and return the 9/9 to hand(rather have Weirding hit to bin it) and it can't be forced if they Vial it. Sure I will get three 3/3's that will stall them for a few turns at best until they put out 6+ creatures in 2 turns and kill me or should I race and allow Goblins to operate with lands and Vials for two turns and Kill me?

Double Sphinx is great if you are playing a second Sphinx. The best target in the MU is the best target in the MU?
Your service is commendable.
Thank you.

Edit: And wth.. You see the guy's list form today and now you want to use that as your answer when the posts were all over a week ago? Really?

RexFTW

08-02-2010, 05:59 PM

RexFTW

08-02-2010, 06:02 PM

Shutting off KotR, Fetch Lands, Grim Lavamancer and Pridemage aren't necessarily a bad idea...

A zoo player getting an opening hand of Savannah, Arid Mesa, Steppe Lynx, and Pridemage is normally pretty damn good but take out that fetchland and it isn't nearly as explosive. I am not advocating randomly needling out fetchlands but in this circumstance it gains you a bit of tempo and buys you time to get your Sphinx online.

agree needle isnt totally terrible vs zoo but thats not where it shines IMO. Merefolk and counterbalance are where you really want needle.

menace13

08-02-2010, 07:02 PM

sorry menace... if they stinscourge your terastodon you still have a ton of elephants to keep sphinx from getting warren weriding which is the point.... Goblins can not win most games with an active sphinx.

Last time i checked the metagame is about 40% zoo/goblins in most areas right now and sphinx is the best answer against them. I would definately play more than 1 atleast from the board. Look at the GP madrid list from 6 moths ago. It has more sphinx in the board. Vs goblins inkwell goes out sphinx comes in!

PS I have played over 1000 games with reanimator. Thnx.

This is my favorite part of your postHow many turns do you need to win with sphinx? 3-4? say you stall for 3 turns.... gain 18 life. Yes plz! Now they are at 2 and you are at 38? horay.

40% Zoo and Goblins in most places, eh? Is that even a real number? Or are we just going to make up numerals here?
If you have an actice Sphinx you are a long way to winning anyway, the Weirding in that case can be played around with fetching for Arbor and FoWing. Setting up a second target after spending 2-3 cards from hand is not going to occur immediately(next turn or so) most of the time. Tera plan would work in your scenario, but executing it in time and in your scenario with double Weirdings is not as fast as fetching for Arbor or FoWing if you have it.

And I have Played 1001?

RexFTW

08-03-2010, 01:50 AM

Ok, so the second creature i want to reanimate is dryad arbor. Thanks. You are completely off base and just arguing for the sake of arguing. It is clear the 2x sphinx of the steel wind is the best.

practical joke

08-03-2010, 10:39 AM

This is really going nowhere:

If you don't have anything usefull to say about any reanimate list without any decent arguments or questions about the deck, please don't post here.

I do like the addition to pulse next to the 3 personal tutors which make it work again. I think that list works quite well and I'm glad you already found out thoughtseize is such a great card that it exceeds a personal tutor in your current list. I'm still doubting if I think personal tutor is good enough to play. Then again pulse is a great answer against counterbalance mainboard since they only have RWM to support their 3-mana slot.

what were your pro's and cons for personal tutor that specific tournament?

I haven't played in a tournament since the bannings though...should dust off my list again = p

mtgducks

08-03-2010, 10:57 AM

First I have to say pithing needle does a great job but I disagree that a silver bullet you cannot reliably tutor is worth a sideboard slot. You will just fail to draw it when needed while the impact on the board/ matchup is worth sideboardslots. If I had space for 2-3 needles I would have played them.

The disadvantage of personal tutor is clearly that you cannot tutor entomb. That was shown to me clearly while playing against storm where I had to tutor for careful study but couldn´t find some flesh. Tutoring for entomb would have won me the first game here. I am not quite sure if the sorcery speed makes the card too worse compared to LDV. The crucial thing is that the opponent has a whole turn more to fight your gameplan because he can react in a different way after seeing what personal tutor brings you on your next turn but I personally think the deck has enough ways to fgiht through this extra information.

Cutting a personal tutor still hurts but I cannot find another card to replace for the third thoughtseize and I really want to play 3 nowadays. The only other card I can think of is LDV but playing only 6 entombs is not enough IMO.

jcsy

08-05-2010, 09:40 PM

how about a single buried alive, with personal tutors to work together

comeback

08-09-2010, 05:33 AM

Buried Alive works just with Dark Ritual, there is no reason to spend 3 mana in turn 3 just to put in your graveyard 3 creatures, you've already the right stuff both with:

- careful study
- thoughtseize
- entomb
- show&tell

so if u've no entomb or no creatures in hand and no study or show&tell or thoughtseize or cantrip maybe mulligan is better than wait turn 4...

Tokobotenkai

08-14-2010, 07:28 AM

Cross posted from Salvation, though I share this list, it came 2nd out of 134.

// Lands
1 Bayou
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs

// Creatures
1 Blazing Archon
1 Inkwell Leviathan
3 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

// Other Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 Careful Study
4 Exhume
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Personal Tutor
4 Reanimate
1 Show and Tell
2 Thoughtseize

// Sideboard
3 Ravenous Trap
2 Spell Pierce
3 Duress
2 Perish
2 Show and Tell
3 Null Rod

What do you guys think?

menace13

08-14-2010, 07:50 AM

Same list as one page back.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?8639-[Deck]-B-U-Reanimator&p=476918&viewfull=1#post476918

Looks good.

Tokobotenkai

08-14-2010, 07:52 AM

Same list as one page back.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?8639-[Deck]-B-U-Reanimator&p=476918&viewfull=1#post476918

Looks good.

Opps looks like I missed it, reading now.

practical joke

08-14-2010, 02:26 PM

Looks very solid and more than worth testing out.

it fixes the slow part of personal tutor with the removal you need to cover it up.
I like the list.
I think it can safely go -1 LDV +1 thoughtseize

death

08-14-2010, 04:08 PM

3 Mindbreak Traps for Null Rod. Unless Null rod is a secret tech against Thopters or Temple Bell.

whienot

08-14-2010, 04:34 PM

Null Rod addresses primary grave hate (Crypt/Relic). Nuking Thopters, Affinity, and being good against combo are just added bonuses.

As for Mindbreak Trap, I've never liked it.

practical joke

08-15-2010, 05:58 AM

mindbreak trap is situational at best, and while playing blue, there are better options i.e. spell pierce.
the null rods are fine, but also they limit you as the deck is, since the opponent still has time to answer those.
then again, which card doesn't?

I'm surprised he isn't choosing for krosan grip, since it's good against CB, thopters and all the other hate.
It only costs 1 more.

comeback

08-17-2010, 03:10 AM

I'm playing that list with the following SB:

- 1x Show & Tell
- 3x Extirpate
- 3x Spell Pierce
- 2x Null Rod
- 2x Pithing Needle
- 2x Moment's Peace
- 1x Reverent Silence
- 1x Trickbind

but I'm not 100% satisfied so I'll just fine tuning it :(

inside88

08-18-2010, 12:00 AM

i have play this in local tournament and make 3-3 not good !

2 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Island
2 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs

1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon
1 Terastodon
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Thoughtseize

4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate

4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
2 Intuition
3 Ponder

I think and i prefere LDV finaly like this : -2 Intuition -1 Ponder +3 LDV

TooCloseToTheSun

08-22-2010, 03:55 PM

I was wondering if anyone had tried using dizzy spell to replace mystical tutor? I know it costs 3 but it is instant speed and can get any card that costs 1 and puts it in your hand.

JonBarber

08-22-2010, 04:00 PM

I was wondering if anyone had tried using dizzy spell to replace mystical tutor? I know it costs 3 but it is instant speed and can get any card that costs 1 and puts it in your hand.

Because setting up is really what you want to be doing on turn 3...

whienot

08-22-2010, 04:14 PM

Dizzy Spell

You can only transmute as a sorcery. If tansmute were instant, it would have busted the format long ago.

Captain Hammer

08-22-2010, 08:10 PM

Intuition is strictly superior to Dizzy Spell. And it IS an instant.

It can fill the yard for you saving you a mana, and it can fetch you any card in the deck, including FoW or Daze (or Exhume) at instant speed.

RexFTW

08-23-2010, 02:21 PM

Intuition is strictly superior to Dizzy Spell.

Don't know about 'strictly'. Transmute cant be countered and can get singleton cards. Intuition does double duty here though so is probably better for this deck anyway.

Mroova

08-24-2010, 10:28 AM

First of all, I want to say hi, cuz it's my first post here.

I'm quite new to Legacy Reanimator, and whole format too, so I'm looking for tips from more experienced ppl. I have a severals issues with my build, so here they are:

1. Draw Engine.

I'm running draw core (4 brainstorms and 4 studies), but I struggle with choosing the most important part of that engine - Tutors / LDVs. Both have benefits and drawbacks, and favors diffrent playstyles, but I want to know Your opinion.

We can fetch some silver bullets with Tutors, like single bounce or removal in main deck, or even bring our fattie straight from our hand, due to tutored Show and Tell. What is more, our sideboard seems to favor builds with tutors - Perish, Silence, etc. We also don't need to pay life, digging our library. But we can't fetch Entomb, what is crucial, and we also suffer little card disadvantage, caused by putting sorcery on top of library, and breaking the draw tempo.

LDV is instant cast, also can support FoW (like tutor), can fetch every single card in library, but causes life loose, which followed by fetchalnds and Reanimate can be fatal (~12-13 total life loose, omg wtf bbq). I said that postsideboard favor Tutors in general, but we can help us digging for Null Rod / Needle with LDV - Personals can't do that. Casting LDV, and putting studies + fat ass at the library top is tasty too.

I have two propositions of draw engine, and I want to hear your opinions and votes for them.

4x Brainstorm
4x Studies
4x LDV
1x Extra slot

or

4x Brainstorm
4x Studies
3x Personal
2x LDV

We can give a try with 1-2 Ponders, but I dunno if it's not too much. On the other hand, we can always choose them as a FoW oil or trash them with studies as a dead card. But generally I don't see the point of playing Ponders when we can bring the better options. Yup?

My next problem is choosing our fatties. The core is:

2x Ionna
1x Sphinx
1x Inkwell
1x Archon

Then ppl usually bring It / Terastodon, or even 2nd Sphinx / 3rd Ionna (kinda weird imo).

...BUT we can do a few things here. Personally, I'm looking forward to exchange Blazing Archon for Stormtide Leviathan. Of course, it's primary ability is worse than Archon's, but every single match up, that we want to run with entombing Archon, can be easily won by bringing the Stormtide too - Merfolks, Dredge, etc. What is more, Stormtide is harder to burn for Goblins and some other shit. My weapons of choice are:

2x Ionna
1x Sphinx
1x Inkwell
1x Stormtide
1x Terastodon

Then I'm having hard time with last spot. It, that Betrays, imo is not something amazing. My testing games showed me that he wins the games, that are won already. He can't race with aggro decks due to his lack of vigilance / haste. He doesn't have lifelink, our Sphinx is much better options for opponents playing aggro decks. I don't even mention his lack of evasion abilities, such an flying or protections. It can be easily stopped / delayed by some shit. On the control / combo decks, I would rather bring Ionna and lock opponent down, or even play our untouchable Inkwell. And finally, when I want to remove some nasty pernaments, I prefer bringing our tenacious elephant - Terastodon :D It destroys DIRECTLY and IMMEDIATELY. But enlighten me plz, maybe I'm just doing it wrong :)

Last but not least - number of our fat asses. 6/7/more? Playing 7 or more favor studies, having 6 will sometimes make You cry discarding some usefull cards after study. But having many creatures hurt our deck slots. I think that 6 (virtually 10, with Entombs) reanimate targets is enough due to great digging potential. But I want to see You statement here.

On the dead end. What is You choice of playing minor distruption cards (over FoWs) - Dazes and Thoughtseizes? 4+2 or 3+3?
Daze can be another FoW oil or even Careful Study oil in middle game. Thoughtseize can be sometimes gamebreaking, or even be used for bringing our reanimate targets from hand to the grave. But it's another pain...

Looking forward for replies, cheers.

PS. Sry for my english.

jazzykat

08-24-2010, 10:48 AM

Has anyone taken the old (6-7 creature) lists and replaced the Mystical Tutor+Silver bullet with a Couple more fatties and 3 Show and Tell?

JonBarber

08-24-2010, 01:21 PM

I did something similar. The problem is everyone is expecting T3 show and tells nowadays, not to mention theres a lot of decks with better things to put in off show in tell (like Emrakul, Progenitus, or Humility)

comeback

08-25-2010, 03:19 AM

1. Draw Engine.

I have two propositions of draw engine, and I want to hear your opinions and votes for them.

4x Brainstorm
4x Studies
4x LDV
1x Extra slot

or

4x Brainstorm
4x Studies
3x Personal
2x LDV

4x Brainstorm
3x Careful Studies
3x LDV
2x Personal Tutor

It should be enought, LDV has to be in more copies than PT 'cuz:

- it gives access to FoW
- it's a good re-start if u've failed your re-animation plan
- give access to PT

My weapons of choice are:

2x Ionna
1x Sphinx
1x Inkwell
1x Stormtide
1x Terastodon

Without Mystical Tutor, we need 7 creatures and we need multiple copies of:

- Iona
- Sphinx

Blazing Archon is better than Stormide Leviathan only vs Merfolk (please check other comments in the previous pages) but for all other MUs we already have creatures that are better than both Archon & Leviathan.

Nowadays I'm playing:

- 2x Iona, Shield of Emeria
- 2x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
- 1x Blazing Archon
- 1x Terastodon
- 1x Empyrial Archangel

On the dead end. What is You choice of playing minor distruption cards (over FoWs) - Dazes and Thoughtseizes? 4+2 or 3+3?

- 3x Daze
- 3x Thoughtseize
- 1x Maelstrom Pulse

My 2 cent!

Mroova

08-25-2010, 11:17 AM

Comeback - thx for at least one constructive reply.

First of all, I don't like the idea of having 2 tutors in deck. I prefer having at least 3 copies of crucial cards, 2 of them sometimes are not enough. It's a great risk that u won't get them when they are needed and You can't rely much on them. I would rather play 3 tutors + 3 LDVs, removing something else, maybe one thoughtseize or something. I would love to run:

3x tutor
3x ldv
4x brainstorm
4x study

But we haven't got enough free slots so i must cut something. 3 studies is something that i should try, but I'm very big fan of that card, it's our 2nd best discard outlet in deck, and I have good memories with old exteded reanimator - there was so many discards (imps, etc). I'm conscious that this deck had far more different playstyle, tempo oriented, without control elements, but...

Let's go further - control elements.

4x Fow
3x Daze
3x Thoughtseize
1x Bounce / Removal

...would be something optimal imo.

Creatures - why so Inkwelless? ;p It's not something must have, but I feel much more confident having at least one badass creature that opponent just can't drop so easy. It can be gamebreaking in many matchups. Your Empyrial is ok, yeah, but we have a sphinx, that can pose a great threat to aggro decks, and fill almost the same niche that Emyprial. What is more, You're playing 2x Sphinx + 1x Angel - isn't that too much? We have favorable matchups with most aggro decks, so I don't see the point.
Inkwell can be also used to cast FoW, when You're playing with something that it's useless (very rarely).

Okay, so that's something I would like to test now.

2x Ionna
1x Spinx
1x Inkwell
1x Archon / Stormtide
1x Terastodon

4x Fow
4x Daze
2x Thoughtseize
1x Bounce / Removal

4x Brainstorm
3x Study
3x Tutor
3x LDV

4x Reanimate
4x Exhume
1x Show and Tell
4x Entomb

17x Land

I'm kinda disappoint that I don't have 3rd Thoughtseize. I can always remove maindecked control silver bullet to raise the mentioned card copies, but I'll give it a try as it is now. I'm missing also the complet of studies, but I'm playing only 6 reanimate targets, so it won't be so favorable in my build.

I would love to hear more replies and tips from Ya. Take care.

JonBarber

08-25-2010, 11:27 AM

Stormtide Leviathan is bad, as comeback pointed out. Archon is your merfolk hose, no point in giving that up. I really like the 2nd sphinx maindeck, your never sad to see him. He's especially great when you have to go the reanimate route. I'd definitely make sure your "bounce/removal" slot is a sorcery to get the most out of Personal Tutor. I've been having sucess with maelstrom pulse, but eye of nowhere is always an option. I also like to run at least 1 show and tell maindeck for those random matches where your opponent is maindecking awkward gravehate or you need to get something out of your hand.

Mroova

08-25-2010, 11:35 AM

I have Show and Tell maindecked :)

My silver bullet of choice is Turbulent Dreams, especially that I'm only poor, humble student-kin and i spend money mainly on beer and bread, not on G splash :D

I'm glad with that decklist, the only thing may be removing 1 Daze or something and getting the 7th creature, maybe 2nd Sphinx.

Thx for reply, cheers.

JonBarber

08-25-2010, 11:52 AM

inside88

08-26-2010, 12:47 AM

What is the motivation to play "Maelstrom Pulse", I tend to say that 4 copies of Daze is better. Maybe ETrue or WipeAway.

With "Pulse" the mana base is affected like this (8 fetch vs 10 fetch):

4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island

versus

4 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Island

JonBarber

08-26-2010, 12:55 AM

What is the motivation to play "Maelstrom Pulse", I tend to say that 4 copies of Daze is better. Maybe ETrue or WipeAway.

Its sorcery speed, so its tutorable with Personal Tutor, it destroys multiple copies of hate, and its 3cmc gets around counterbalance nicely. Wipe away and etruth are both instant speed, so you need to luck draw into them. With personal tutor, you have more virtual copies of all the sorceries in your deck. Also, the green manabase gives us more board options, such as kgrip or nature's claim.

inside88

08-26-2010, 05:45 PM

Thanks for you reply JonBarder, seen like that i'm also agree ;-)
The optimum list looks like :

4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
17

1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon
1 Terastodon
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 It That Betrays
7

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse

4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
1 Show and Tell

4 Brainstorm
3 Careful Study
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Personal Tutor

Captain Hammer

08-29-2010, 12:12 AM

This thread needs a reboot, desperately.

The lists in the OP look absolutely nothing like and play absolutely nothing like B/U Reanimator lists.

Now with MT's banning, the deck has undergone another transformation that look even more different from the lists in the OP.

The deck needs a new OP and since the thread starter is no where to be found, someone else here should make a new B/U Reanimator thread with updated tournament winning lists and indepth discussions on the merits of different cards the deck could play maindeck and sideboard.

It could cover everything from standard LDV and PT lists, to more consistent but less flexible Ideas Unbound + Animate Dead lists, and controllish Intuition lists.

Mroova

08-30-2010, 05:47 AM

Srsly, noone is playing Reanimator nowadays? Cmon ;p

I found new decklist on deckcheck.net. Guy wasn't playing both Tutors and LDVs, but but he brung a great ability to dig and cantrip. Personally I think it sucks, but maybe someone will have a diffrent view on that.

Knoll

08-30-2010, 09:00 AM

Well noone in playing reanimator nowdays it's something near to reality... still the few peoples that still believe in this deck are having good results.
Maybe because it's an unexpected MU after the banning or maybe because it's still a really strong deck still able to shine in the actual meta.
Here are a few results between July & August:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37624
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37429
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37341
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37226
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36905

Personally i'm testing the deck in the last 2 weeks using the following list (very similar to Kessler/MtgDucks one):

4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island

2 Sphinx of the Steel Wind (or a 1/1 split with Terastodon)
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon
3 Iona, Shield of Emeria

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
1 Show and Tell
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Brainstorm
3 Careful Study
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Personal Tutor

SB:
3 Spell Pierce
3 Duress
3 Pithing Needle
2 Perish
3 Ravenous Trap
1 Terastodon

Tested with some friends and "sadly" sometimes on MWS and till now the results are quite good:
UR Sneakattack (6-0)
UBG Landeed (4-2)
UWb Landstill (4-1)
Merfolks (11-1) (everybody are in merfolk frenzy, also the retards, so don't take this mixedgrilledfishes as a good MU%)
Zoo (5-1)
Gobs RB (4-1)
TPS (3-1)
URG Tempo (3-3)
ProBant (4-1)
CBthopter (4-2)
Madness (4-1)
Burn (2-0)
Belcher (2-0)
WStax (4-2)

We are able to get the "NUTS" hand like before the banning and w/o mystical we are still able to reanimate protected fatties still on turn3 with protection backup...

So... where is the problem with this deck actually :S?
Probably people just got totally pissed by the banning and dumped it, i did that too 2 months ago... (nearly threw the deck out of my window in that morning Q_Q...) and probably was wrong ^_^

Clark Kant

08-31-2010, 12:52 AM

Tokobotenkai

08-31-2010, 11:05 AM

I know.

There was a ton of innovative ideas posted from Pages 84-88 that seemed like they had potential.

Everything from Hapless Researcher to Ideas Unbound and even Glimpse!? It's strange that people abandoned all attempts at innovation and settled on simply swapping Mystical Tutor for Lim Dul's Vault. I think even Hedron Crab has potential, acting as Entomb 5-8.

Hell just take the preban Reanimator list and swap the Mystical Tutors out for 4 Ponder, and the deck would still win fairly often.

It's a loss but certainly not a crippling one.

It is rather crippling.

The reanimation engine is mostly intact but we lost speed and consistency.

Furthermore, m tutor allows for singleton silver bullets which we do no longer have.

Hapless Researcher was one of the choices during extended when we had access to vampiric tutors. IU is probably there to dig deep.

As for crab, relying on land drops to get it done doesn't seem too consistent to me.

4 ponder doesn't really substitute, more of a mixture of ponder, ldv and/or pt.

Knoll

08-31-2010, 11:43 AM

about loosing speed: true we are a bit slower but we still have high chances to have nutty hands like before, even when we had MTutor if we didnt had the nutty hand most of the times we were going to reanimate on T3, like now.
Consider also that the meta is a bit slower now besides combos (and vs combo personally i never had problems with 4fow 3daze 3thoughtseize MD + 3Duress&Pierce SB) and that the Ramping deck of the moment (Merfolk UB) cant asnwer to a resolved blazing archon.

about consistency: rather than consistency the deck lost resilience (silver bullets from SB), tho i think we actually >>gained<< in consistency since with LDV we are able to restart easily than with the good old MT, sure it's slower but gives you the possibily to create "restart"-piles that MT wasn't able to.

JonBarber

08-31-2010, 07:21 PM

I agree to a certain extent. I think the deck definitely lost some speed (its more of a turn 3-4 deck as opposed to turn 2-3) but we definitely gained consistency with LDV. It allows to you find ANY cards you need, as well as usually 2-3 other "useful" cards. Goblins are also starting to drop black for green which is a huge benefit. The problem is that (at least in my meta) new horizons has gotten a lot more popular, and its a pretty shitty matchup. Therefore its not really worth playing the deck. But if your meta is different, especially fish heavy, the deck is definitely playable.

practical joke

09-01-2010, 03:48 AM

I highly disagree with the fact that we cannot use "silver bullets", most new lists pack LDV, which allows us to carefully add silver bullets to our sideboard.
Extract/sadistic sacrament isn't a gamewinner anymore.

But you can still tutor for a singleton null rod,show and tell, krosan grip, random fattie, llawan, tormod's crypt, perish and what not.

Most of the time, I never used MT to set up a combo right in the beginning, that happened rarely. When I did cast mystical late-game, it was a game-winner!

With a slower deck goblins become a bigger problem. As expected that's why I refuse to play a slower deck just because it can abuse personal tutor at that point. I still run a low-land, 4 lotus petal build and 4 iona, because it remains explosive, pushing out those first to second drop fatties.
Goblins aren't that much of a problem,either splash or no splash.

About new horizons, if you give them 3-4 turns, then yes they become a pain in the ass. Possible ways to win? take their creatures, They don't have a lot of them, and the ammount of protection they have is limited. an inkwell or iona (white) should seal the deal quite fast. unless they drop double tarmogoyf, then things get messy as always.

Jayzonious

09-01-2010, 03:11 PM

I found that the deck is still pretty great. LDV works fine as a tutor IMO

RexFTW

09-02-2010, 01:47 AM

It that betrays is a nice inclusion because it is reasonable against almost any deck.

If I had to choose a creature in my starting hand against an unknown opponent to go along with carerful study and exhume, i would pick ITB.

practical joke

09-02-2010, 02:53 AM

I'd take inkwell leviathan, iona and empyrial archangel anytime against an unknown opponent.
Reason nr1. Swords to plowshares/path to exile

actually I think that is enough reasons to take on of the other 2. It is a T2 drop, you know which land an opponent plays, so iona is not a complete wild guess. and only a very very few decks can handle that leviathan, iona or empyrial that early in the game.

Not goblins, not zoo, not fish, none.
So why take an extremely situational card when nearly all others are sealing the deal already?

JonBarber

09-02-2010, 08:26 AM

alderon666

09-02-2010, 08:56 AM

I always thoght It that Betrays was used to beat Lands.

Inkwell can get Glacial Chasmed into oblivion. It that Betrays might take some time to get there, but every turn they lose 2 lands and you get those lands, more importantly they don't go to the opponents graveyard.

With heavy disruption in hand you could use it to seal a game against aggro quickly.

practical joke

09-02-2010, 10:35 AM

I still beat lands easily with inkwell,

Just extirpate their loam and voila...a win

Knoll

09-02-2010, 10:45 AM

what's your SB atm practical? :o

whienot

09-02-2010, 12:08 PM

Do lands players not play Ensnaring Bridge in the Netherlands?

RexFTW

09-03-2010, 04:43 PM

Yes, it is good vs lands.

It that betrays is randomly strong against things you run into that sacrifice themselves as well. IE you cannot IGGY loop with ITB in play because i get all your LEDs.

Randomly good against these cards that you may run into:
cabal therapy
dread return
LED
loyal retainers
Knight of the Reliquary
wasteland
fetchlands
recurring nightmare
cursecatcher
siegegang commander
smallpox
pox
barbarian ring
cephalid collisium

Im sure there are tons more that I missed as well....

only a very very few decks can handle that leviathan, iona or empyrial that early in the game.I have found that this statement is often not true. Zoo merefolk and goblins can often race a turn 2 leviathan off reanimate. Obviously if they dont have a vial iona becomes a strong choice against the mono decks.

Mroova

09-04-2010, 09:24 AM

Few more questions.

1. Is green splash really that necessary? We have only sideboard options there. Moment's Peace is not something amazing, we have good MU with most aggro decks. So we have only Krosan Grip, Reverent Silence and Dryad Arbor left - not impressed at all, good shit but we can manage without that, being more resistant to wastelands etc.

2. Can You post Your sideboards? Do You prefer more consistent boards with more numbers (3-4) of the same card? Personally, I play with silver bullets and 2 pieces of Null Rods, etc.

3. When You're boarding in Animate Dead?

jcsy

09-05-2010, 03:06 PM

we also have a single tutorable maelstrom pulse, which runs nicely with personal tutor

the thing about us losing 4 mystical & 1 echoing truth is replaced by 2 personal 2 ldv & 1 maelstrom

destroying is usually slower but more effective in the long run.. besides, maelstrom answers quite alot of things maindeck

Mroova

09-05-2010, 03:59 PM

I prefer Turbulant Dreams over Maelstorm Pulse. Pulse can fix multiple diffrent threats at once, costs 1 less to cast and also can help with throwing our fatties straight into graveyards, making them ready to reanimation. We usually need only 1 turn to get, so bounce is not something lame, it brings almost the same benefits that removal. In addition, it's even better in few MUs (Dredge, Mirror, etc).

So, we have only sideboard G options here. I know that propably always G splash is better than no splash, but I must say that. Is it worth that many $$ papers to get these board answers? I'm not shitting money so... :P

Darkenslight

09-06-2010, 04:08 AM

What do you think of Skithyrix, The Blight Dragon (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=268667)? It doesn't quite end the game as quickly as other typical targets, but its lower cost is a factor for Reanimate.

Mom

09-06-2010, 08:28 AM

The amount of life you preserve probably isn't worth the lack of protection againsted targeted removal spells. :eyebrow:

practical joke

09-06-2010, 09:03 AM

I still have to see what to do with my sideboard since the change, but this is what I used to have/comes to mind for me.

1x akroma, angel of wrath (Goblins, and a few other decks, situational)
3x nature's claim (any fast-paced artifact hate/leyline)
1x coffin purge (loam, dredge, mirror things like that)
3-4x extirpate (loam, dredge, mirror etc.)
2x krosan grip (counterbalance)
1x Gilded Drake ( with all the fancy, "look I can drop emrakul in your face", I prefer to face those suckers. With maindeck Petals, the chance is legit that you can keep the 2 mana and a drake on hand and blow them out after an attack from the Doomsday pile)

3 open slots, I'm currently not able to think about what I had in there, I might take back a full set of Xantid Swarm.

I used to play extract, but since TES is the new combo, that won't work at all, so that's an open slot ( or the 4th extirpate)

Still have to think about it and test it once again.

practical joke

09-12-2010, 02:47 PM

So been a while now, I rebuild an fairly simple list and threw it against vengevival.

Vengevival won one game the whole day ( about 15-20 matches) mainboard.
The one game won was due to the screwage I had. ( risky hand, but a loss is a loss)
Sneaky show should be a decent win as well, unless they drop proggy.

It stood not a single chance, a few reasons:

you play more protection than they play counters.
All your creatures are gamewinners
your deck is 1-2 turns faster than they can kill you.
The vengevival gameplan is all over the place and it hardly works. ( manadenial works, but it's also slows their deck a whole lot)

This was my list, fairly simple, but still a whole lot effective and relatively fast.

3 underground sea
1 island
1 swamp
4 polluted delta
4 verdant catacombs
1 bayou

4 lotus petal
4 force of will
4 daze
4 thoughtseize
3 lim-duls vault
4 entomb
4 careful study
4 brainstorm
4 reanimate
4 exhume

3 iona, shield of emeria
1 blazing archon
1 sphinx of the steel wind
1 inkwell leviathan

1 echoing truth

Thinks I like:
it's still as aggressive as when i started building it ( oktober 2009), you need to be aggressive to stand a chance against the fast decks already available in the current meta ( TES, vengevival, Sneaky Show, zoo, goblins etc)
Solid control, solid ways of drawing into your combo
truth still works well with vault
vault sometimes randomly gives you a lot of life-loss against all odds

things I disliked:
6 creatures are not enough, need to change a few things
lim-duls vault is quite contradictive since it's to slow for this build to shine, I might change the 4 cards into more speed ( 3 vault 1 truth, for some creatures) yet lim-duls vault's effect is strong enough to cover up for mystical's loss. Just the T1 mysticals are going to be a huge miss.

In very simple math you should find a creature each time you cast study from you openings hand (each 10 cards should hold a creature), but as usual that never works, so I will add a creature.

I also think that empyrial angel's time is over. The decks are too fast nowadays to be able to cover up her lack of speed in killing an opponent.
Terastodon and It that betrays won't work as well as the other targets will do. The shroud and islandwalk will be necessary to make a finish agaist standstills since sneaky show and vengevival play islands and have no offense against you, but you cannot risk to attack into an emrakul.

Mroova

09-12-2010, 03:30 PM

With all due respect, this list looks like sucky-ducky ding-dong ;p

First of all, You're missing 1 Show and Tell mainboarded. I can't imagine playing without that, when I have to face grave hate, or some random color locks.

Next - You're playing only 13 lands which is freaking greedy. I can see 4 petals, yeah, but still it looks very doubtfull, especially when You have to face wastelands/sinkholes/etc. Petal can be a nice boost, providing 1st turn reanimation, but I hadn't tested that, so I can't say any more tbh. But 13 lands seems to lol wut.

Echoing Truth seems ok, cuz it's instant cast, but I like some sorcery silver bullet instead. You're not playing Personals, so maybe truth is better here. But You've said that in this build, LDVs seems so painfully, maybe here is the one of the answers? Add 4 thoughtseizes mixed with 8 fetchlands and 4 reanimates and we have great pain here. Most reanimators have that, but they also play Personals, which can make digging with LDVs less painful.

And about 6 creatures - it can be enough, but i would run 3 studies then. But 3 Ionnas are too much imo. On the other hand - I like the idea of cutting It that Betrays. I don't like this card, it wins what is won already (except 43lands and some rly random games)

I've played today in a small tournament (15 peeps) with my UB Reanimator, but I was still missing few key cards, so I won't make any bigger report or sth. Besides of that fact - I did shit job, made a couple tremodous mistakes and finished with 6pts after 5 rounds of swiss. Yeah, shame on me.

Bless Ya.

practical joke

09-12-2010, 05:54 PM

This list is almost identical to the one I went T100 @ Gp Madrid ( failed by losing the last 3 rounds by screwing up twice and lost once to merfolk)
The only change mainboard is 3 mystical to LDV, just for testing.

I agree the ammount of lands is quite low, but I prefer petals still above lands just to keep the potential. these are personal preferences, change them to lands if you like.

I always played show and tell mainboard, even sideboard.

I never ever used it, with the current decks that continuesly play progenitus, oblivion rings, emrakul and all other crap. Even for reanimate the risk isn't worth it anymore. The chances are pretty high you face a deck that tries to cheat emrakul or progenitus into play, or some defensive card for that matter.

This deck rarely worries about life-loss. Sure the occassion happens you get low, but you'll win at that point.
Thoughtseizes are awesome, combining that with reanimate makes it even more usefull. My sideboard as listed 3 posts above is made to keep the speed up against potential hate cards.

Most ppl who play reanimate accept it as an easy win deck. Most of the time it even is, but the parts where choises have to be made, especially when you have to read an opponent, seeking that one oppertunity, that's when a lot of ppl make mistakes using this deck.

Feel free to comment the deck Mroova, but I need some substantial arguments to take my list into consideration or something to improve.

I've seen the personal tutor lists, and they seem fine. I also think they are to slow for the current meta. I don't think it has the speed to fix it.

Also, I will probably test 4 iona soon together with hapless researcher without LDV just to speed things up, this might sound like a lot, but she is still the one creature you win most matches on when dropping early.
the one deck that has less issues with that could be U/G/B landstill (due to jace + innocent blood), depending on the ammount of counters you have on your hand you have to make a choise and depends on the speed you can drop an iona.

Mroova

09-13-2010, 06:31 AM

Well, maybe I'm exaggregating a little. I just get used to slower, but more consistent versions of Reanimators.

Don't misunderstand me, I like the idea of playing with acceleration - petals. But I'm worrying because it can be very risky. Risk is something good, if it is calculated, and when it can't ruin Your whole game. But imagine Your starting hand - porno with 1 land and 1 petal. You Entomb for Ionna and Reanimate meets Daze / Fow / sth else. You have 1 land (mostly Underground Sea) which is going to be raped by wasteland. It doesn't seem to be a rare circumstance.

Mainboarded Show and Tell - well, I'm almost sure that You have far more bigger experience with that deck, than me. I'm writing this words after only 100-200 games, so maybe it's not enough, but I'm a big fan of SnT. In my meta game, I can meet several decks that have grave hate mainboarded, and it's hard to answer with bounce (for example - Wheel of Sun and Moon, protected with Sterling Grove). Yeah, I will not face such a situation in every single match, but that's why we have only 1 SnT - it should be only random fetched. You can always treat it like an Force of Will / Careful Study Oil, when it's totally unnecessary, and side out, after the 1st game. I'm greatly convinced that I won't drop this 1 piece of little heaven out ;)

Personal Tutors - You're absolutely right - they are slow, and they can ruin the whole tempo of the deck, but sometimes they're necessary. If You have it on You mainhand, combined with Entomb, You can be almost sure that it will bring 2nd turn Ionna, which is Crucial. I'm only playing 2 of them, because LDV seems to be better option (can fetch almost everything, especially Entomb, and some distrupt, when You're after the Reanimation plan, and You just have to defend Your fatties). I think that 2 Personals and 3 LDV's are fine, but I'm still testing that.

Then beside 4x Thoughtsize (I hardly prefer 2-3 pieces of that, due to pain. It also can be very frustrating when You have so many 1 mana drops. On paper it looks great, but counterbalance wil totally rape You, so do other random techs, such as Chalice with 1 counter). Maybe it's personal playstyle, but I don't miss 4th Thoughtseize. So do the another copies of Ionna. Well, testing the avant-garde decklists is something okay, but 4 copies seems hardcore :P (Imagine Extripate here)

Well, take care, looking for another reply.

practical joke

09-13-2010, 06:48 AM

short reply due to place and time,

About the thoughtseize and counterbalance. You still play 12 protection spells, while they only have 4 counterbalance.
It's not the best match-up, but some lists have to be the worst. I created this list, just to make sure I win from counterbalance before they drop it.
You only lose from counterbalance when they either blindflip like crazy or have a SDT next to it.

The whole trick with playing reanimate is to see that opening. You don't run blindly into a counter ( sometimes you do, but those are completely different situations)

Also you have to be creative when playing against hate, I run 3-4 nature's claim sideboard to know for sure I won't lose to much speed when dropping my stuff. try winning by using an opponents creature, tarmogoyfs are excellent creatures, dark confidants are not ( unless you have no other choise, but getting hit in the face for 9 is no fun either)

4 copies of thoughtseize have always been fine for me, but I won't judge anyone that thinks 3 are enough. I just prefer to pick them up anytime of the day. It shows me way to much info when I cast one.
- type of deck they are playing
- ammount of possible disruption
- how much time do I have to win?
- Can I even win by taking their fatties.

Anyways, I should test the personal tutor build some more, but it seems unneccessary slow for me.

jcsy

09-13-2010, 08:28 AM

just to throw in random-ness

what else do we need in sideboard and what do we face that often, we lose?

just to throw a discussion ;

anyone faced this yet ?

Withered Wretch

practical joke

09-13-2010, 08:51 AM

nope never.

When reanimate hit their highest, everyone boarded in fearie macabre and extirpate next to the already and always played gy hate like
tormod's crypt, relic of progenitus and leyline of the void.

I continuesly expect the latter 3, therefore I play 3-4 nature's claim.

I should sleep more and talk less crap

Mroova

09-13-2010, 09:14 AM

Well, main hate that I'm facing is Crypt, Relic and Leyline. On yesterday's tournament my opponent brung 3 crypts and 2 relics on the table, in one single game. That was frustrating. I won due to Show and Tell, but that was kinda lucky.

What is more, the tournament winner is the driver of Mono U Fish or sth like that. He totally teched his mainboard to fit the metagame. I've faced 4 Gilded Drakes mainboarded, sweet Jesus... I've lost 1-2, but he was topdecking like shit.

The main problem with Reanimator is that everyone has a hard reponse post board, with massive hate. Most of the games should be played around SnT (unless my opponent is not playing Sneak, Aeon, etc...), bringing some nasty shit with shroud, or locking their hate with fetched bounce or random topdecked Null Rod's / Needles. It sounds retarded, but I can't remember the game postboard, when I hadn't seen crypt/relic on the table... Usually I'm just playing the Reanimation to make him use that, and then trying again.

practical joke

09-13-2010, 09:44 AM

Main reason I started splashing green for sideboard:
4 nature's claim to deal with their answers. Reanimate doesn't have time to slow down much, else you get facepummeled by hate obviously.
a few krosan grips to deal with the rest, where claim's won't work. ( chalices @1 for example).

4 gilded drakes mainboard isn't something awesome.
There are too many decks where the card is completely dead. Not trying to name it, so don't worry about that list.
Next time just pummel the fish player with zoo. he'll regret playing gilded drakes.

What I think your problem is Mroova, is that you lack experience in how to deal effectively with gy hate. As you say you run right into them. You don't have to. You can sit and wait, get your removal (since you play pulse, sorcery speed sucks) and then blow up in his face.
Trick them into getting the wrong creature and the turn after, blow up in their face.
3 crypts and 2 relics are extreme, ignore that game and win the next or seize one of their creatures.

Mroova

09-13-2010, 09:59 AM

What I think your problem is Mroova, is that you lack experience in how to deal effectively with gy hate. As you say you run right into them. You don't have to. You can sit and wait, get your removal (since you play pulse, sorcery speed sucks) and then blow up in his face.
Trick them into getting the wrong creature and the turn after, blow up in their face.
3 crypts and 2 relics are extreme, ignore that game and win the next or seize one of their creatures.

Then correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm playing with deck xx, when my creature yy is not the 1st/2nd choice to reanimate against. His first turn is land, sth, crypt, go. Then i go with studies, discarding brainstorm and creature yy (let's say it's sphinx against painter). In my next turn I'm playing exhume to make him force booming with crypt. Isn't that proper move? In next 1-2-3 turns I would propably draw/play LDV/Tutor/Entomb, something to try Reanimation again, without grave hate on the table this time. I don't see any point in waiting so long, when i can just force opponent to use his hate very early, and then be able to repeat reanimation process again. Of course - not at any cost, but in this case, and many similiar circumstances - yes.

And last thing - I'm playing without G splash, lack of money :( Maelstorm Pulse -> Turbulant Dreams.

practical joke

09-13-2010, 10:17 AM

You have to wait with blowing up his hate, untill you can do it again within a turn.
Sculpt a hand again, or make sure you can counter his next gy hate.

It's not bad to have him use his gy hate, but it's no use if you have no pressure to put on him.
If you cannot put pressure on him the next turn, then what use is it to let him blow his hate?
You might as well sculpt a hand that has exhume + entomb, then you can let him blow his hate.
After his hate resolved you'll cast entomb with exhume on the stack and get what you want.

Michael Keller

09-13-2010, 10:38 AM

Mroova

09-13-2010, 10:43 AM

Well, sounds rational. A bit sloppy, luck-needy and slow, but rational :)

What is Your gameplan against ANT, Bants and Merfolks? With ANT there's no much I can do, just distrupt with all I have and put fast Ionna on black? Bant MU looks random, every game looks diffrent, depends on his build and how many control elements he had on starting hand. Should I Entomb for Inkwell? Merfolks are totally bitch sometimes, pre board it's rather favorable, but then they bring additional control elements, grave hate, bounce and Seasingers, and I start to have troubles.

And can You post general sideboard options (only UB plz) on most popular decks in format? I mean, how my side in and side out should looks like. I'm having hard time with choosing the side out cards, cuz most of them seems crucial. Dang.

RexFTW

09-13-2010, 04:12 PM

sideboard
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Show and Tell
3 bouce spells
2 null rod
2 pithing needle
2 sphinx of the steel wind
1 dryad arbor
1 Terastodon
or
1 Woodfall Primus

Inquisition of kozilek -> replace thoughtseize vs agro. not paying life helps a ton here. zoo doesn't play anything over 3 cc anyway
Show and Tell -> vs excessive GY hate or leyline of void. remove careful studys for these.
bounce spells -> vs leyline of the void or decks likely to have answers to nullrod/ pithing. end of their turn bounce crypt/relic then go off on your turn works well. chain of vapor, echoing truth and wipe away are all good options here.
null rod/pithing needle -> strong vs top, thopters, cursecatchers, mutavaults and vials. of course crypt/relic also. side out 1-2 reanimation targets and 2-3 other spells that are not good in the matchup.
Sphinx - MVP vs zoo and goblins. side out inkwells and ionas for more sphinx!
dryad arbor- not so secret secret tech vs sacrifice effects. side out a land for this. fetch for it in response to their spell.
Terastodon - strong vs ensanring bridge, glacial chasm and other random things. Also secret tech vs lord of atlantis and a decent option vs edict effects. Strong vs combo decks where having 18 power to kill them in a single attack is good.

RexFTW

09-13-2010, 04:32 PM

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/scarsofmirrodin/045usco69t_en.jpg

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/scarsofmirrodin/e6a7kjkl19_en.jpg

discuss!

menace13

09-13-2010, 05:17 PM

That Liege has got to be some of the worst art evar!

jcsy

09-13-2010, 10:04 PM

platinum emperion would be good target for certain matchups but mostly matchups which we would already have an answer to

against common decks like zoo, path & pridemage would remove it

against merfolk, blazing followed by inkwell would almost certainly win

it just looks sub par on the surface but almost awesome for those without removal or bounce

it being 8/8 without trample just gets chump blocked everyday giving opponents possibly 3-4 turns to find an answer, before you do some real beating, which would need another 2.5 turns. without haste, its probably going to be giving opponents 2-6 turns to deal with it and hit u back real quickly

Darkenslight

09-14-2010, 04:15 AM

it being 8/8 without trample just gets chump blocked everyday giving opponents possibly 3-4 turns to find an answer, before you do some real beating, which would need another 2.5 turns. without haste, its probably going to be giving opponents 2-6 turns to deal with it and hit u back real quickly

I strongly suggest you RTFC again - Trample's the first line. Give it some haste and you have a 1-turn clock turn 2.

menace13

09-14-2010, 05:10 AM

I strongly suggest you RTFC again - Trample's the first line. Give it some haste and you have a 1-turn clock turn 2.

What is with all the cursing? Strong Suggestions should have strong considerations Like, he was talking about the Platinum and not the terribly illustrated Liege. Also, and what exactly in Reanimator is going to be giving something Haste?

practical joke

09-14-2010, 05:20 AM

Nothing,

Reanimater was/is so strong since EVERY single creature have some form of evasion or self-protection.

Iona, shuts of the main color and/or the removal. Given a 3 turn clock that's hard to race makes her viable.
Inkwell leviathan, a fast clock, nearly impossible to get rid off.
Blazing archon, can completely shut down a deck without removal.
Sphinx of the steel wind, Can win games singlehandedly due to lifelink, protection from important removal (except stp), evasion and vigilance.
Is able to race a progenitus.
Empyrial archangel, hard to get rid off, hard to outrace due to the pariah, evasion. Shame with nowadays power creep and explosive deck, she's hardly worthy the effort
Terastodon, takes out primary problems, has a fat body and can come with friends, not my choise of play, but on a rare occassion it does it's job better than the other targets.
Akroma, can singlehandedly take out decks that the sphinx cannot, works wonders against R/b goblins compared to sphinx. (haste is awesome)
has protection from a few decks due to being pro-black giving her an edge where sphinx sometimes fails (rarely though) self-protected.

The new golem and platinum both lack that form of self-protection, which is a shame.
Trample is not relevant, and it can be blocked by 2 goyfs into oblivion.
Blazing archon seems the better choise, also this golem can be the new storm killer, since you cannot lose life at all.

jcsy

09-14-2010, 11:20 AM

What is with all the cursing? Strong Suggestions should have strong considerations Like, he was talking about the Platinum and not the terribly illustrated Liege. Also, and what exactly in Reanimator is going to be giving something Haste?

yes im 90% drunk and yet able to say that i was indeed talking about platinum in my post, 100% all the time, all post.

indeed i wasnt talking about the liege, which had terrible graphic

Practical joke pointed out the main obvious. it lacks evasion.

however, as practical mentioned, it can stop storm however :

storm can bounce it and combo off the same turn

platinum would be as good as empyrial archangel in that situation :D

its a sub-par card...
im not even talking about liege.. its not going to even help main deck against anything, even It That Betrays can be better.

JonBarber

09-14-2010, 11:25 AM

yes im 90% drunk and yet able to say that i was indeed talking about platinum in my post, 100% all the time, all post.

indeed i wasnt talking about the liege, which had terrible graphic

Practical joke pointed out the main obvious. it lacks evasion.

however, as practical mentioned, it can stop storm however :

storm can bounce it and combo off the same turn

platinum would be as good as empyrial archangel in that situation :D

its a sub-par card...
im not even talking about liege.. its not going to even help main deck against anything, even It That Betrays can be better.

Tendrils makes you lose life, not damage, so Archangel is useless. Iona is ALWAYS best vs combo, especially since the loss of mystical tutor.

jcsy

09-14-2010, 02:59 PM

i thought the card says "you cant gain or lose life"

the losing life part, is helpful against Tendrils , right?

damionblackgear

09-14-2010, 03:22 PM

i thought the card says "you cant gain or lose life"

Or pay life which is really big as it makes forces lose their alternate casting cost and fetches are also useless. It's not a re re-animator quality target. On the to next one, having more 8/8s (IF you hit) is a bit excessive. Unless you're playing against Zoo, where Sphinx already looks stronger.

practical joke

09-14-2010, 03:34 PM

the 8/8 fatso has to connect first...aka a problem

The other 8/8 golem has the advantage (same as iona) that they MUST remove it before they can tickle you with a spell.
same thing as iona, except that empty the warrens will not help either.

one way or another, iona remains good enough and this golem is not worth boarding for.

The current set of fatties are enough.

jcsy

09-14-2010, 05:11 PM

both of them so far doesnt look like replacing main deck fatties that we already have, or even 2nd reanimation target

against zoo, we already have sphinx, sometimes wishing we had 2..
hmm, no fetch and no force of will after u animate the platinum guy? thats crippling yourself as well

Oxmo39

09-17-2010, 07:15 AM

Hi guys.

Recent posts made me feel like building this deck again would be a good idea :-) So did I. But i was not convinced by the choice of most reanimate players with personal tutor and maestrom pulse.

I join the idea of Practical : being more agressive and explosive by running lotus petals+ 15 lands.

I used to play with 6 creatures, this is not enough anymore coz we are now more reliant on Careful Study.
I rounded up the numbers of creatures to 8. for more consistency and redundancy : Iona x3, Inkwellx2, Sphinx x 2 and Blazing Archon x1
Those are the most effective targets.i really want to avoid as much as possible to have the inappropriate fatty in the yard for the current MU : Iona, Inkwell and Sphinx are the most "all-round" targets. By the way inkwell and sphinx are also extra-food for Fow's.

I had time to make a few games last night. conclusion : lotus petal are really good. I used to play without petals, rather for stability reasons. Now, I want to go faster, even in games 2 & 3.
I was the most impressed by petals in game 3 When i was on the draw (usually in game 3) I didn't have to fear Daze and i often can go off turn 1

Playing 15 lands and 4 petals worked fine, never got mana-screwed in 4 matches.
The deck seemed to work consistant, but obviously need more testings.

thranmonster

09-17-2010, 04:26 PM

^ whats your deck list? Just curious, I'm thinking about rebuilding my reanimator.

RexFTW

09-20-2010, 05:37 PM

Has anyone with the green splash considered Pernicious Deed?

jcsy

09-21-2010, 05:01 AM

what exactly would you wish to hit with pernicious deed and in which match up

its a 3 mana spell, likewise pulse

anyways, its a good suggestion since many things that hamper us would be things off the 1-2 mana range, even 0 for tokens or tormod immediately

how does this fair against maelstrom pulse anyways? maelstrom pulse handles almost anything immediately

Mroova

09-21-2010, 09:07 AM

Well, I don't think that Deed will fit in this deck playstyle. You can handle with single/multiple threath with Yours mainboarded silver bullet, bouncing / destroing them in the same turn. Deed will mainly reqiure another extra turn for untap, so it's too slow. Also it's not tutorable (okay, it is with LDV, but not with anything else). When You have to clean ALL the table You have propably lost already and it's too late (except Enchantress with sideboarded Silence, and some other circumstances too). You're not playing control deck to bring the Deeds. You're using only few control elements, but they'are mainly for distrupting opponent and helping to bring our fatties on the desk / countering key spells, nothing more imo.

practical joke

09-21-2010, 12:03 PM

I tried a few copies of pernicious deed when I made my first drafts and tournaments, in the end it's too slow for what it does.
Sure it clears zoo etc, but by the time you can use zoo, has probably won.

It's a great card when you are in a standsill already having a dropped creature but neither can get forwards. I used a few EE's in my sideboard since 3 mana was sometimes a challenge. ( using petals) and EE actually did the work for me when it needed, like clearing all the 2-drops against zoo and some other crap.

If you are playing a LDV build with 18-19 land that's slower by itself, you should definately try either EE, deed or the new powder keg. Since those cards could do the trick and clear things up. ( EE for 3 worked like a blast against CB when I played my deck a little slower)

jcsy

09-21-2010, 09:05 PM

another problem being untutorable

finding it via brainstorms are probably the only way (EE)

Oxmo39

09-22-2010, 04:03 AM

^ whats your deck list? Just curious, I'm thinking about rebuilding my reanimator.

This is the built i'm currently running :

3 underground sea
1 island
1 swamp
2 bayou
8 fetch

4 lotus petal
4 force of will
4 daze
2 thoughtseize
3 lim-duls vault
4 entomb
4 careful study
4 brainstorm
4 reanimate
4 exhume

3 iona, shield of emeria
1 blazing archon
2 sphinx of the steel wind
2 inkwell leviathan

It is running fine, dropping a creature with Study is less random with this build, they are the most "all-round" execpt Archon...
Manabase works good and I rarely saw petals during testings.
Anyways, results of testing are not really positive. Lost games are close but recursive.

I think we have to face two major issues with this deck :

- Many blue-based decks tends to add Spell Pierce to their counter-package (Fow & Daze) : pain in the ass for our key spells
- Aggro decks are stil really present and are always faster (zoo, madness, merfolks & gobs).

Even games 1 that used to be "easy" for reanimator become more difficult.
Games 2 & 3 are a level harder when grave hate come in.

As you all know, since the banning of MT we are more reliant on Entomb and slower with LDV.
To recover his respect this deck needs some serious changes. I brainstormed a lot about that (even thinking about going back with putrid imp - ouch) but couldn't find what could help...

Probably we have to wait and hope that Wizards print us a new bomb :confused:

Just me

09-22-2010, 04:58 AM

another problem being untutorable

finding it via brainstorms are probably the only way (EE)

Using Thirst for Knowledge helps there as well and it also discards fatties. Using a little more artifacts even allows cardadvantage (EE, artifact fatties and maybe some goodies from SOM?)

Currently I'm running 1 to test. It's digging for three and getting 2 in the yard is pretty good as additional Study and the mana is rarely an issue (although a little slow). But much better as Study (instant) when maintaining a lead on the board.

jcsy

09-22-2010, 07:59 AM

at 3 mana, thirst for knowledge and intuition become a consideration

i do believe, intuition is slightly better in getting something if u're gonna cast something off 3 mana though

they both have their own use though

hard thoughts?

Mroova

09-22-2010, 08:15 AM

Oxmo39

09-22-2010, 12:23 PM

Yep!
Intuition seem nice on paper but is still one mana slower than LDV ...
It would also require us to make important changes in the build for the manabase.

Intuition is a great card but I don't think it is the one who can save us...unfortunately

Edit : howhever, his capacity to put a Fow immediatly in hand should not be underestimated...

jcsy

09-22-2010, 12:45 PM

if drawing and discarding was so important, ideas unbound might be slightly more "faster" and gets u half way there

RexFTW

09-22-2010, 07:33 PM

I would rather run Intuition over Thirst for sure. If You want Thirst to be at least semi-effective, You've got to rebuild whole decklist, adding some petals/moxes, art lands, etc, which can be shit (except petals).

First of all, ask yourself - what do You expect from adding that? Intuition can fix Your problem much better than thirst. Thirst's only benefit is only pure cardadvantage (assuming that You've got artifact to drop). Intuition can fix several problems - triple Entomb sounds great. You're lacking reanimation - go with triple Reanimate / Exhume. You can fetch for 3x FoW and counter the key spell the same turn. Imo Intuition is far better than Thirst in this deck. I don't see a room for Intuition in my decklist, at this phase of testing, but it seems far, far superior to Thirst.

why would you get 3 entombs? why not just get creatures and 2 go to the yard?

Also:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=110304&d=1283908864

if you play reanimate on this guy you do not pay the life!

Drawback:
You can no longer play force of will or use the abilities on fetchlands or lim dul's vault. However, subsequent thoughseizes and reanimates do not cost life.

Bonus:
Autowin game 1 vs merefolk and ugmadness similar to archon, only he can be reanimated at low life.

practical joke

09-23-2010, 02:42 AM

This card is not relevant at all, besides being a mofo, you'll still die big time when he gets hit by removal.

I can safely say that there are more cards being able to slay this dude than an archon.
It cannot attack most of the time, where the blazing archon can.
Each deck now has acces to more creature destruction than it already has due to it being an enchantment.

I prefer my archon anytime, since the archone can stop a big mean eldrazi.

comeback

09-23-2010, 03:26 AM

I'm backed to work and test on the deck just yesterday with the classic UBg maindeck list already posted by more than one users.

I've tried to use the following fatties stuff:

- 2x Iona Shield of Emeria
- 2x Sphinx of the Stell Wind
- 1x It that Betrayers
- 1x Inkwell Leviathan
- 1x Blazing Archon

I've loss twice and both 0-2 vs Merfolks but my opponent had the followiing initial hand:

- wasteland wasteland usea cursecatcher spell pierce
- usea cursecatcher spell pierce daze standstill
- cursecathcer fow standstill

so no a lot of chance to win also with a protection in the opening hand.

About lands, I'm testing 61 cards with 18 lands introducing a Dryad Arbor maindeck that:
- reduce issues about the correct color to call with Iona
- guarantee a blocker in a potential locked situation were we can't attack with our fat guy.

About It that Betrayers I think it's one of the best target for a turn 2 Reanimator for all the deck that doesn't play StP or PtE, u can attack in turn 3 creating a +4 permanents advantage and it's the only 2 turn clock creature.

Any suggestion or comment?

PanderAlexander

09-23-2010, 04:34 AM

I've loss twice and both 0-2 vs Merfolks but my opponent had the followiing initial hand:

- wasteland wasteland usea cursecatcher spell pierce
- usea cursecatcher spell pierce daze standstill
- cursecathcer fow standstill

so no a lot of chance to win also with a protection in the opening hand.

Sup Francesco, it was good playtesting those games, but those are the typical game plan Merfolk's going to try and do since Reanimator relies on few lands. With mystical before you could grab thoughtseize or FoW to get a spell through or grab dark ritual if you're low on lands or grab reanimate/entomb if you have protection already, with that gone so goes the resiliency :\

Captain Hammer

09-23-2010, 05:01 AM

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=110304&d=1283908864

if you play reanimate on this guy you do not pay the life!

Is that true? Don't you pay the life before the guy comes into play, or no?

He seems solid vs. burn. If you tried to reanimate anyone other than him against burn, you'll be dead before your next turn.

comeback

09-23-2010, 07:40 AM

IMHO it's obv FALSE!

It's a static ability that affect you when it is in play and it's not yet in play while Reanimator resolves.

Mroova

09-23-2010, 08:11 AM

Well, the additional cost of Reanimate is paid when it resolves, before this fatty is in play. So for all those who have already jizzed in their pants - life will be lost imo :P

Anyway, it's a piece of crap. You can't hardcast FoW (which is the only way to cast it 99% of time), You can't dig further with LDV, You can't sacrifice fetchlands, You can't play another Reanimate...

Captain Hammer - Bringing Ionna on Red vs Burn ir pretty much gg in the most of cases. And the Burn isn't a hard MU for Reanimator. Can be frustrating, but it's still favorable.

Comeback - I've dropped It that Betrays from my decklist a few days ago, and I don't really miss him. He wins what is won already. Ofc, it can be gamebreaking with 43lands etc, but face it - every single creature can do it's job better than Eldrazi. It can't race with aggro like sphinx, can't lock opponent like Ionna / Archon and it's missing shroud like Empyrial and Inkwell. Terastodon can destroy something imeediately and you can target with him. In addition - reanimating him with Reanimate (not Exhume) can be fatal. 2 fetches, thoughtseize and reanimation and You can be one shoted. Geez... Don't misunderstand me, it's still great creature, but why should i want bring him on the table, when almost everytime I can meet better option?

Cheers, take care.

whienot

09-23-2010, 09:25 AM

Well, the additional cost of Reanimate is paid when it resolves, before this fatty is in play. So for all those who have already jizzed in their pants - life will be lost imo :P

Effects resolve in order they are written on the cards. The Emperion/Reanimate question was clarified in the rules forum.

As soon as Emperion is on the battlefield, its static ability is active, so you cannot lose life.

So, it is a viable play. But not that great due to reasons already mentioned. You can continue to use Reanimate though. Emperion shuts off paying life, not losing it.

alderon666

09-23-2010, 09:45 AM

LOL.

Reading the cards is tech, at first I didn't think that Reanimate + Platinum Emperion would actually work. But it does!

It makes me think of those games where your life total is very low and you can't cast Reanimate on anything. It's decent against storm too. But no being able to pay life is a real dealbreaker.

Still it would be fun to Reanimate a 8/8 at 1 life and stop an aggro deck on it's tracks until they found proper removal for it.

Folkien

09-23-2010, 12:26 PM

Hello everyone, I'm testing this build since a week ago, it works pretty fine to me, but it's still need more testing. (I accept any suggestion)

Lands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
1 Island
2 Bayou
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs

Creatures
2 Inkwell Leviathan
3 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon

Spells
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Entomb
3 Daze
2 Thoughtseize
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Lotus Petal

Sideboard
3 Show and Tell
2 Krosan Grip
2 Spell Pierce
3 Nature's Claim
3 Duress
2 Perish

The only problem I'm having now, is between LDV and Personal Tutor. I know both of them have pros and cons, but IMO we are going to need maybe both cards in this deck to find what we need in every match, the thing is, I don't know how many of each one.

Viva la Raza!

jcsy

09-23-2010, 01:10 PM

Im using 2 Lim Dul's Vault 2 Personal Tutor, to replace 4 Mystical Tutor (1 for 1)

I have yet to obtain 1 Maelstrom Pulse, which I think is very useful

Playtested some decks with MAINDECK Leyline of the void and Tormod's Crypt today. It was hard as hell, without Pulse

Only 1 out was Show & Tell, which I managed to tutor and get a terra, sometimes sphinx, sometimes iona, which wasnt so good in 1 of the games

Ive tried 4 LDV, felt it abit clunky, slow and repetetive if too many (definitely not 4)

Ive tried 4 Personal Tutor, served the wrong uses in most of the times to get Careful Study, Reanimate, Thoughtseize, Show & Tell & Exhume but not Entomb or Counters to protect my critters.

Mroova

09-23-2010, 01:40 PM

2 Personals + 3LDVs works fine for me.

Looks like more and more ppl are playing petals nowadays. Can You write down any wider opinion and You thoughts after testing them?

thranmonster

09-23-2010, 02:41 PM

I'm using 2 Personal Tutors and 3 LDVs as well.

whienot

09-23-2010, 02:53 PM

Personally, I love Lotus Petals. You give up a little stability for explosiveness and they are worse than lands in a longer game, but turn 1 LDV is damn good. Petals open you up for more options in the early turns, they help smooth out color requirements, and in corner cases help fight Blood Moon.

I haven't tried Personal Tutor yet. It's flexibility is great, but showing your opponent what you're doing and giving them a full turn to react seems....blah. I could see it being paired with Hapless Researcher to good effect.

I'm all about Lim-Dul's vault, though. It's one of those cards that rewards good play. I run the full 4, though I may not run a playset if I didn't have petals.

jcsy

09-23-2010, 05:54 PM

how have petals been, for games 2/3 in terms of speed getting over hate and as well as consistency/reliability

games 2/3 usually drag really long , hence petal becomes less valuable

even Daze gets weak

PollePotDK

09-24-2010, 04:20 PM

Hi all,

Have a few questions/thoughts I need to ask/share about Reanimator. Have been playing this deck for some time, and before the ban of Mystical Tutor it was the bomb, but finding it a bit more challenging now, which is ok :smile:

I play 3 Personal Tutors and 2 Lim Dûls Vault, because if I dont have Entomb, Im likely to have a creature around, why I Personal Tutor for Thoughtseize or Careful Studfy to pitch it or Lim-Dûls for help.

If I dont have Reanimate og Exhume, "Hallo Personal Tutor". So the optimal in my opinion is 3 Personal Tutors and 2 Lim Dûls Vault. Comments?

I dont know why people play It That Betrays. I can se the synergy, but you need Exhume because of the high CMC, and it doesnt have Shroud. So the idea of a turn 2 It That Betrays, reanimated with Exhume is highly unlikely AND you need FoW backup for StP and PtE protection. I just doesnt get it. Please explain to me :tongue:

I always have problems vs Merfolk, and hope thats a fact, haha. Blazing Archon and Inkwell seems to slow a plan and I have been looking for an answer to this. Does anyone know a good idea here? I came up with an idea, but havent tested it yet, but what about Llawan, Cephalid Empress? without an Æter Vial they are screwed. And if they have it, Pithing Needle or Bounce. Plus you can hardcast it. Comments?

/PollePotDK

Folkien

09-24-2010, 09:21 PM

I play 3 Personal Tutors and 2 Lim Dûls Vault, because if I dont have Entomb, Im likely to have a creature around, why I Personal Tutor for Thoughtseize or Careful Studfy to pitch it or Lim-Dûls for help.

Maybe you can post your decklist to compare. I'm asuming you don't use Lotus Petal, 'cause I can't make room for both cards using Petals.
I'm testing right now with LDV + Petal, 8 creatures, and it isn't bad, is really fast but not as consistent as before.
Next week I'm going to try the same build but -3 LDV, +3 Personal Tutor, and see how it works.

jcsy

09-25-2010, 02:20 AM

against Merfolk, what stops you?

standstill with a vial in play?

cursecatcher?

jitte?

counter-magic?

how do they get past archon?

RexFTW

09-25-2010, 04:07 PM

It is difficult to get a reanimation off if they are playing a very control heavy build and you are not playing many lands. There is a 10% chance of maindeck bounce or swords in merefolk to remove archon and about a 50% chance of bounce after sideboard.

Tacosnape

09-25-2010, 04:15 PM

Was there any kind of logic to your 10% and 50% numbers whatsoever, or did you just rattle off numbers to back up your point?

Switch to Mono-Black if you have Merfolk problems. I've been doing very well against Merfolk with it. I'm better than 50% against any Merfolk build except for the 3 MD Pierce + 3-4 SB Yard haters, which is a struggle but not impossible. Good Black lists are really strong right now.

JonBarber

09-25-2010, 07:20 PM

practical joke

09-26-2010, 01:47 PM

I got 2nd place at my local tournament today. I played a fairly stock, non-petal list. I lost to Next Level Thresh in the swish, and then to merfolk in the finals. He led with T1 cursecatcher all 3 games, and just had too much counter magic for me to resolve anything.

That seems a fair result.

Treshhold decks will be annoying as hell, and they always will be. Not real shame to lose that one.

Merfolk that lead with T1 cursecatchers are annoying, can be one, but if they run MD spell pierce or even after SB. Then yes, I can imagine your loss.
Again not a real shame there.

Why petals are so crazy, is that they can give you that unfair advantage of running the chance to drop things before they ever could.

JonBarber

09-26-2010, 10:14 PM

I think if I play reanimator again I'm gonna try the lotus petals. The biggest issues I find with the deck are daze effects and land destruction. Lotus petals deal with both of those

PanderAlexander

09-27-2010, 02:52 AM

I think if I play reanimator again I'm gonna try the lotus petals. The biggest issues I find with the deck are daze effects and land destruction. Lotus petals deal with both of those

Back when I played reanimator I liked the lotus petals, another card I had tried in the petals slot was dark ritual which I liked too, but those were in the days of mystical tutor in which the tutor could've gotten the ritual as well as numerous spells and protection.

jcsy

09-27-2010, 07:41 AM

practical joke

09-28-2010, 03:01 AM

i still find it hard 2 justify speed over consistency

if u're faster, u're usually less consistent

petals are for really explosive early games but when drawing into them or a game that didnt get an explosive hand, its just too far behind the mediocre list

When I created the list with lotus petals, I used them as the 15th to 18th land.
I play a very low ammount of land because you simply don't need more. Sure, it happens you screw over, can't find anything and be less explosive. That also happens when you play TES, new horizons or sneaky show.

When you get into a longer game, petals have the same us as a land would be. Their both dead draws.

I have decided to start testing with personal tutors as well instead of just LDV replacing echoing truth with pulse. I'll try this change because it might make the deck faster and it is extremely rare you need to find an entomb, where careful study could be the one card you need. ( mostly you'll pitch it to FoW, or get exhume anyways.)

Testing still needs to come with results, so far: Vengevival (without white like most lists are) stood no chance and the MU against Sneaky show is quite positive. But yes Sneaky Show can be more explosive.

lorddotm

09-28-2010, 03:23 AM

addaro

09-28-2010, 04:17 AM

I have decided to start testing with personal tutors as well instead of just LDV replacing echoing truth with pulse. I'll try this change because it might make the deck faster and it is extremely rare you need to find an entomb, where careful study could be the one card you need. ( mostly you'll pitch it to FoW, or get exhume anyways.)

Testing still needs to come with results, so far: Vengevival (without white like most lists are) stood no chance and the MU against Sneaky show is quite positive. But yes Sneaky Show can be more explosive.

Looking forward to those results from testing! Please do post them here, it will be very helpfull for some of us trying to make that hard decision what to spend money on :wink:

fdiv_bug

09-30-2010, 11:29 AM

I was ambling about on DeckCheck.net and I came across this list (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37664):

1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon
1 Terastodon
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria

4 Force of Will
3 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
2 Intuition
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume

2 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Island
2 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:
4 Pithing Needle
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Show and Tell
2 Reverent Silence
2 Perish
3 Dispel

In the brief testing I've done with it, it seems to be not half bad. I like Intuition. It can be a "I need this specific card right now" tutor, or can act as Entomb numbers 5 and 6, including the "responding to Crypt in response to Exhume" trick. The only problem I've encountered with Intuition is that it's three mana in a deck with 17 land. I do a lot of testing against Merfolk because of how popular it is around here, and in general, and it can be hard to get three land on the table in a timely fashion against Wastelanding. I think it'd be better with 4 Delta and dropping the other two fetches to 3 each, since then I could more reliably get my basics, but that would have an impact on my ability to fetch up the Arbor in games two or three.

Thoughts?

JonBarber

09-30-2010, 01:31 PM

fdiv_bug

09-30-2010, 02:17 PM

No sphinx?

I'm personally a huge fan of LDV. Intuition is slow (you can find whatever you need turn 2 with LDV, go off turn 3 with it) whereas you intuition turn 3, go off turn 4. Plus, games 2/3 its much weaker. It makes it obvious what your game plan is, and gives you very little outs left if they stop what you intuitioned for.

Sphinx (of the Steel Wind, I'm assuming you mean) is in there up at the top. I would never consider running without her. :smile:

Your points about LDV's strengths and Intuition's weaknesses are valid, and I'll certainly keep them in mind as I test.

Is anyone still bothering to muck about with Personal Tutor? There was another list (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37663) in that same, small event that finished higher, which ran Personal Tutor, Strategic Planning, and Turbulent Dreams. I've never been a fan of either of the latter two.

bfspider

09-30-2010, 06:08 PM

Sphinx (of the Steel Wind, I'm assuming you mean) is in there up at the top. I would never consider running without her. :smile:

Your points about LDV's strengths and Intuition's weaknesses are valid, and I'll certainly keep them in mind as I test.

Is anyone still bothering to muck about with Personal Tutor? There was another list (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37663) in that same, small event that finished higher, which ran Personal Tutor, Strategic Planning, and Turbulent Dreams. I've never been a fan of either of the latter two.

Personal Tutor would be good to pull out a Reanimate, if you don't draw a LDV or to find a Maelstorm Pulse, Show and Tell (if creature in hand), or Careful Study (to discard said creature in hand) if you need to blow up something. However, Echoing Truth can be faster and only "findable" via a LDV. I miss my Mystical Tutor :/

JonBarber

09-30-2010, 06:12 PM

Sorry, missed the sphinx there.

Personal tutor is okay, and I think you can get away with it if your not running lotus petals. I just don't like that it completely gives away what deck your playing and what your game plan is. If your opponent realizes they need to leave mana open to spell pierce you because you showed you were going to use reanimate next turn, thats a significant disadvantage. I also like LDV for the fact that it can also tutor up creatures for games 2/3 to show and tell into play, as well finding entombs and force of wills.

fdiv_bug

09-30-2010, 09:35 PM

I also like LDV for the fact that it can also tutor up creatures for games 2/3 to show and tell into play, as well finding entombs and force of wills.

I agree completely, it's an extremely versatile search tool. Do you have a list you're currently working with? If so, would you be willing to share it, and/or the sideboard?

JonBarber

10-01-2010, 12:31 AM

Sure thing

2 Iona
2 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Emperyial Archangel
1 Inkwell

4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Thoughtsieze

4 Brainstorm
3 Careful Study
3 Lim-Dul's Vault

1 Show and Tell
1 Maelstrom Pulse

4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island

Sideboard:

4 Pithing Needle
4 Extirpate
3 Show and Tell
3 Perish
1 Dryad Arbor

Its currently 61 cards. The card that should probably get cut is Archangel, but really helps me win game 1 vs zoo. I'm slightly overboarding for vengevival, but the decks been super popular lately, and I'd like to have the upperhand in the matchup. In a meta with less vengevine, I'd probably play stifle or spell pierce in the extirpate slot. Perish really improves your zoo and new horizons matchups, and also puts creatures in their graveyard for you to reanimate.

jcsy

10-01-2010, 01:37 AM

how was your testing without terastodon and personal tutor?

your sideboard, yes, very focused towards grave and green, vengivines :P

JonBarber

10-01-2010, 08:24 AM

how was your testing without terastodon and personal tutor?

your sideboard, yes, very focused towards grave and green, vengivines :P

Its been fine. Theres never a time I really want terastodon. I'd rather use maelstrom pulse as my removal and have my reanimation target be a game winner.

With lotus petals, I can T1 LDV, which makes it was better than personal tutor. Tutor was nice for finding pulse/show and tell and the occasional needed reanimation/discard spell, but I really disliked how it gave away my game plan to my opponent. Plus, this deck has been "dead" for awhile now, so it really catches your opponents off guard. Personal tutor ruins some of that surprise.

Mroova

10-01-2010, 08:56 AM

JonBarber

10-01-2010, 09:10 AM

Jon, I rly like Your list, looks like very similiar to what I'm testing now. I'm playing with 2 less lands (Ye, greed bitch mode) but +1 Careful Study. I don't splash G ($$$...) so Pulse -> Echoing Truth. And depending on meta, I hestitate with changin Archangel for 2nd Inkwell. I would like to add 4th daze / 3rd thoughtseize, but I'm missing slots...

All in all, Petals are awesome, imo it's what my deck was missing until now.

Cheers, take care.

Agreed, petals are insane.

2nd inkwell is definitely a fine switch. I just fear zoo a little more in my meta. I'm not sure if my land count is correct, but I hate mulling to oblivion because of a lack of lands. Further testing will show.

Mroova

10-01-2010, 09:42 AM

Both of those circumstances are pain in the ass, but I would rather have screw over flood. Every further mana source than 3rd/4th is a DEAD card in Reanimator.

Le's say that Petal is 1/2 land, and study / brainstorm is 1/3 land. Then I'm playing with 15 lands + 4 petals + 4 brainstorms + 4studies. That gives me at least ~19 virtual lands, in a deck, which should prevent me from regular screws, and provide another mana sources. When I have 1 blue mana on opening hand, combined with study / brainstorm / petal, I would keep that hand 90% of time.

I know that my math is conventional and provisory, but that works ok for me. Of course, sometimes I lost becouse of screw, but cmon, almost every deck does - it's sometimes just matter of luck.

Inkwell vs Archangel is of course situational, but I would like to reanimate Leviathan in more cases. It totally wins games with Landstills etc. Archangel is brilliant vs ZOO and Burn, but I can bring Sphinx vs ZOO and Iona on red vs Burn. What is more, both of these matchups are favorable in my opinion.

Hope to see more constructive posts here, greetings.

RexFTW

10-04-2010, 04:24 PM

Inkwell vs Archangel is of course situational, but I would like to reanimate Leviathan in more cases. It totally wins games with Landstills etc. Archangel is brilliant vs ZOO and Burn, but I can bring Sphinx vs ZOO and Iona on red vs Burn.

Archangel is amazing against Landstills etc. Their mishras factory can no longer do damage! If you reanimate her and go to 1 life you still win. Inkwell is needed as a finisher vs merefolk (islandwalk) if they have a big coralhelm commander as well as vs control combo (1 turn faster than archangel). Play both.
Vs burn iona is best (pick red!).

fdiv_bug

10-05-2010, 11:14 AM

Inkwell is needed as a finisher vs merefolk (islandwalk) if they have a big coralhelm commander as well as vs control combo (1 turn faster than archangel).
My experience has shown that Blazing Archon is what Merfolk hates. Most lists still aren't running any way to cope with permanents, and they need to win by swinging, so he just leaves `em cold. If they stick a large enough Coralhelm Commander, then don't attack with the Archon until you can find your Leviathan, and use Inky to get there; once you've got the Archon on the table then the game is under your control so you're in no hurry.

JonBarber

10-05-2010, 11:19 AM

If they stick a large enough Coralhelm Commander, then don't attack with the Archon until you can find your Leviathan, and use Inky to get there; once you've got the Archon on the table then the game is under your control so you're in no hurry.

Haha, thats exactly what he was saying.

I lost to zoo and to dredge this past weekend. The deck is already getting hated out by my local meta (dredge added the destroy a permanent angel to their build). I think this goes to show that this deck may only shine when a meta is prepared for it. Granted, most metas are not prepared for it, but the point still stands. But mystical tutor reanimator was much the same way (it had basically stopped top 8ing when mystical was banned).

fdiv_bug

10-05-2010, 11:25 AM

Haha, thats exactly what he was saying.
Ah, OK. I had misread, then. :smile:

I lost to zoo and to dredge this past weekend.
Zoo was always a tricky matchup for me. I was never quite comfortable with the Archangel, since they'd swing into her and then lob a couple of burn spells at me to finish her off.

The deck is already getting hated out by my local meta (dredge added the destroy a permanent angel to their build). I think this goes to show that this deck may only shine when a meta is prepared for it. Granted, most metas are not prepared for it, but the point still stands. But mystical tutor reanimator was much the same way (it had basically stopped top 8ing when mystical was banned).
(I'm assuming you meant "when a meta isn't prepared for it.") I agree. I think what might make it a good call at the moment is its speed, even with the loss of Mystical Tutor, and people being caught off guard by it. My biggest concern is that grave hate is coming back to deal with Vengevine Survival, and several of the tools people use to stop it -- Faerie Macabre, most notably -- can bother us as well.

JonBarber

10-05-2010, 01:49 PM

fdiv_bug

10-05-2010, 01:53 PM

Yeah, vengevine is a blessing and a curse. We have an AWESOME matchup vs U/G vengevine, but the hate against it is problematic. I think because of that, you always need to have a full set of show and tells post board (except against eldrazi type decks obviously).

For a time, I'd fiddled with the idea of making the post-board deck into a Worldly Tutor/Show and Tell machine. I think that plan would've been a lot stronger before Eldrazi showed up with their corresponding Show and Tell decks (which includes Sneak Attack), but it's still always intrigued me.

Arsenal

10-11-2010, 09:49 PM

Mana Drain

10-11-2010, 10:31 PM

So, I was going to order my playset of Entomb... then the Mystical Tutor banning came down and it scared me away from this deck. It was putting up really nice results prior to MT-ban, and not so much now. Is this deck still worth investing $160 in for the Entombs? Strictly tier 2 or is it just a card away from becoming tier 1 again (not counting on MT coming back)?

I played the hell out of this deck after entomb was unbanned all the way up until MT was banned. Without MT, the deck just isn't the same. The speed, consistency, and resiliency of really diminished. Plus, people will ALWAYS have cards in the sideboard for you, due to dredge, loam decks, and madness. Without the ability to EOT MT for Show and Tell, gravehate becomes a whole lot more relevant than it used to be. The consistency issue can be addressed by the addition of preordain, but it slows you down, giving the other guy more time to find hate, disruption, or just kill you.

Although I do love the deck, I don't expect it to be what it was without MT. Back in the day, the problem was what to reanimate. I remember shitting bricks when Akroma was printed, just because there was nothing close to her before. Now we have Iona, Sphinx, Archon, and a boatload of other good dudes to choose from. Now we don't have any tutors for spells. We have to draw and draw to get what we need, and if we get disrupted, rebuilding is not nearly as easy. To be honest, I wouldn't buy the Entombs. Unless a creature was printed that said "YOU WIN THE GAME WHEN I COME INTO PLAY", this deck just isn't going anywhere other than a fluke T8 resulting from either god draws all day or the pilot stacking his deck. Unfortunately the deck is strictly Tier 2 now.

If anything, keep waiting. Entomb isn't run in any other deck to my knowledge, so barring aforementioned random T8 in an SCG Open, the price will slowly dwindle. At least not at $35 a piece. That's highway robbery.

addaro

10-12-2010, 02:37 AM

There are others in this thread that have played more, but even from my testing the deck is quiet a lot incosistent. Or your opponent is playing eldrazi and that makes the whole SnT plan not viable. Yes, there are some games when you go T1 Entomb T2 Reanimate/Exhume with Force/Daze backup and you feel unbeatable but most of the time youre trying to draw the other part of your "combo" and are just hoping. And then there is the whole part of not losing to grave hate G2/3 and drawing both parts. Sometimes you get there and sometimes you dont. Go and try some games, youre own experience is the best guide...

jcsy

10-30-2010, 11:06 AM

3 weeks without a reply either signifies :

the deck is established
the deck is not played anymore

^_^

are there any recent tournament showings for our Reanimator?

Kirbykopf432

11-02-2010, 11:27 AM

i'd rather say it's established and played in legacy

but without duress or thoughtseize at least in the SB, this deck is a no go against counter

jcsy

11-02-2010, 11:34 AM

i think most of us main deck thoughtseize, between 2-3.

4 is abit overkill against agro, drawing extra after a reanimate is just dead draws

Tacosnape

11-02-2010, 11:39 AM

FWIW, I only quit playing this because my metagame is somehow chock full of Leyline Helm combo. But I still stand by that blue is a weak splash now and that mono black is much stronger in the current meta.

Samexnyhi

11-09-2010, 12:07 PM

Hello, I'm new here, but I wanted to react to Tacosnape. This is my list :

// NAME : Réanimator
// FORMAT :
1 Swamp
2 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Blazing Archon
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Terastodon
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
1 Show and Tell
3 Personal Tutor
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Preordain
4 Reanimate
4 Thoughtseize

A french player finishes second at the open of the french cup (sorry , I'm not fluent in english >_>)with this deck. So, we have 12 draw cards to be sure we will be able to reanimate our creature.
We have 8 disrupt cards, that's not enough but there isn't any free slot.
We need at least 7 broken creature cards, Blazing archonte against dredge & merfolks, iona against LS and combo, inkwell leviathan when we doen't know what the other plays & terastodon to destroy what we want to destroy (survival, CotV, ensnaring bridge etc...).

The sideboard will depend on your metagame.
One more time, sorry about my english :s

The Big Ragu

11-09-2010, 01:00 PM

menace13

11-09-2010, 01:47 PM

I never actually considered this deck to be tier 1 even when it was listed as a DTB. Its draws seem very inconsistent, and it's easy to find yourself top decking more often than you like.

I've never had much fun playing with Reanimator decks, but for whatever the reason it's always been my favorite deck to go up against.

This was one of the best decks in the format while Tutor was around, it was not even close to inconsistent. Now without Tuts it is weaksauce.

The Big Ragu

11-09-2010, 02:14 PM

Sorry, I meant to say post-MT banning.

ddt15

11-09-2010, 07:18 PM

How about this then:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/20478_Deck_Tech_Reanimator_with_John_Cuvelier.html

list:

Reanimator
A Legacy deck, by John Cuvelier
14th place at a StarCityGames.com Legacy Open tournament in Boxborough, Massachusetts, United States on 2010-11-07

Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Lightning Greaves
3 Lotus Petal
1 Pithing Needle

Artifact Creatures
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Platinum Angel
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Steel Hellkite
2 Sundering Titan

Creatures
4 Goblin Welder
4 Hapless Researcher

Instants
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
2 Intuition

Legendary Creatures
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Sorceries
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
3 Reanimate

Artifact Lands
2 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

Lands
2 City of Brass
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Gemstone Mine

Sideboard:
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Mindlock Orb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Coffin Purge
3 Show and Tell
3 Thoughtseize

Dark Ritual

11-10-2010, 01:04 PM

Interesting list, goblin welder is quite the innovation IMO. Lightning greaves seems like leet sauce in reanimator making welder nigh unkillable and welding out a petal for a hellkite, equipping the greaves to hellkite, swinging, then nuking part of your opponents board seems like a great play. Or you can just put sundering titan out there and armageddon over and over with welder. For obvious reasons the darkslick shores are suboptimal to u. sea's clearly just a budget choice and to be honest there is no drawback with darkslick shores in a deck running 16 land. I LOL'ed when I saw mindlock orb in the SB but clearly that card is the tech with welder since casting it seems hard. The problem with FoW in that list is the dangerously low number of blue cards the grand total of blue cards in that list including the reanimation targets which are also blue is 16. That's dangerously low and IMO I would rather just play thoughtseize in its place because of faerie macabre in some decks. Or duress. Overall very interesting list though I might actually sleeve it up and try it out.

Welder in a reanimator deck is just something I never would have expected to see lol although in a way welder survival is part reanimator since it runs some giant fatties to weld out.

whienot

11-10-2010, 03:14 PM

Sundering Titan can't hit Darkslick Shores, where you would lose an Underground Sea in some cases. Daze and Brainstorm are the only cards that really want Fetches/Seas, in Reanimator anyway. Seeing the double Titan in the list leads me to believe Mr. Cuvelier was focused on LD plan.

It's quite an interesting list. I love seeing welder get some play.

Dark Ritual

11-10-2010, 05:06 PM

Touche I forgot that line of text on sundering titan...his list is LD focused which is why he runs 2 of the titan's. And why the entire list for that matter runs no basic land so sundering titan is completely one-sided. I love the welder + greaves interaction so much though its sweet usually a topdecked welder can be terrible in some situations but with greaves in play its just a bomby draw. Not to mention greaves protects all your reanimation targets and I love me some hasty sphinx of the steel winds against aggro just a huge tempo swing.

ddt15

11-10-2010, 05:16 PM

Well I put this together and it runs pretty smooth. Welder kind of allows you to put constant pressure or keep reanimating stuff. Entomb->pithing needle->weld it at instant speed is very nice against survival. Hapless Researcher seems weird at first but fits in pretty well, as extra careful study's or FoW food, or simply as an extra creature to dodge Edict spells. Welder can really profit as an engine card from people cutting back on burn and other pinpoint creature removal spells.

Oxmo39

11-14-2010, 12:46 PM

I've done some little tests with this list and welder brings consistency to the deck, future will tell us if he can bring enough to compensate the lack of MT...
The only thing i can tell for now, is that i am not convinced by all the creatures choice, particularly for platinum angel & emperyion. They look weak and less gamebreaker than the others. think i'll test further with a second copy of Inkwell and Sphinx of steel wind to make it more consistent.

Finally, huge congrats to the deckbuilder for this amazing revolution!

whienot

11-16-2010, 03:34 PM

Just noticed that the Welder version is actually Teen Titans (http://mtgsalvation.com/23-build-it-yourself-teen-titans-welder-reanimator.html) from Extended 2005. Goes to show the value in revisiting past strategies.

Blackmagic

11-17-2010, 02:24 AM

Just want to hear what you guys would replace the intuitions with in the list as I'm thinking of putting the deck together but don't own any intuitions (I'm talking about the starcity t16 list).

off the top of my head I'm considering
thirst for knowledge, what else?

Oxmo39

11-17-2010, 06:50 AM

TFK seems the best replacement for intuition. The lists counts 23 artifacts, this should warrant you to draw 2 and drop a fattie ( or other welder-stuff) quite often.

By the way, I had time lately to test this list out. It works good, welder brings solution but THE solution.
Despite the adds of Hapless Researcher & Intuition, I found that i was not always able to drop a fattie in the yard.
I consider replacing 1 Hapless R by the third Intuition, which is slower but always brings something in the yard. And allowing reanimating EOT (with welder) is awesome!

Here are my current adaptations of the list but it deserves more tests!

-2 Darkslick Shores ; + 1 Gemstome Mine + 1 City of Brass
- Platinum Angel - Platinum Emperyion : + 1 Inkwell Leviathan + 1 Sphinx of Steel Wind (I hate wasting 2 or 3 cards to reanimate a fattie that opponent can deal with!)
- 1 Hapless Researcher ; + 1 Intuition

Has anybody else tested this list ? Other opinions would be interesting...

Blackmagic

11-17-2010, 08:36 AM

I'm not 100% sure on this one yet but I think patinum emperion is a good card to run if you're expecting a lot of affinity, coz they can't deal with it removal wise and they can't amass an army of artifacts to sack to disciples (which I lost to recently after reanimating a blazing archon, damn double disciples)

practical joke

11-17-2010, 08:39 AM

Get a Sphinx out, they can hardly handle that one. (lifelink, vigilance, first strike, seems to work)

ddt15

11-17-2010, 10:29 AM

Well the Platinums are a huge problem for some of the survival decks that have no way to get rid of them. Also entomb->plat->weld lets you survive a vengivine alpha strike. I also don't think Leviathan and Sphinx are so good you'd want to run more than one of each.

Oxmo39

11-17-2010, 12:18 PM

Hum Survival has Qasali pridemage or the stupid blue bouncer to deal with our artifact as you won't always be able to get the singleton Lightning Greaves...
I want to add the second copies of Ink and Sphinx, because i used to reanimate them the most often (with Iona), simply because they are the best targets. Since we only have 4 entombs, i want to avoid reanimating a random beast.
for e.g. Reanimating on T2 a platinum, dropped T1 with study is awful! he has no protection, no evasion. Your opponent can easily deal with it and you can difficult recover from that.

@Practical : congratz for winning Dutch championship again !

Dark Ritual

11-17-2010, 12:47 PM

dahcmai

11-17-2010, 07:54 PM

Cerebral Assassin from Vintage in Legacy? That's funny. I chuckled when I read about the Welders. Though they didn't bring over one card from the Vintage version. Possessed Portal I wonder if it didn't make it for a reason or forgot it?

kicks_422

11-17-2010, 09:22 PM

And on that note, Mindslaver.

Oxmo39

11-18-2010, 12:28 AM

You don't have to draw greaves in order to get it in play remember welder? He can swap out artifacts from the yard? So you just go entomb -> greaves ->lotus petal->welder activation->equip to platinum angel/emperion. GG's. Entomb can get any artifact in the deck even if it's not a creature. There's also the cute trick of if they try to kill emperion by welding it out for platinum angel or another fatty like sphinx which is the nuts against UG survivine and they cannot race that card.

Thanks, I was aware Entomb could fetch every cards...
What i meant, is that you won't have all those cards in hand most of time...you're talking about a hand with Study, entomb, welder, reanimate, a fatty. Man, how often do you think it happen ?

The welder-less version of the deck plays brainstorm, study and LDV. Even with that, i am not able to find entomb as often/fast as needed.

This new decks plays more lands and can support intuition, which is gonna give the deck more consistence.

By the way, welding Sphinx T2 is (nearly always) GG against all aggro decks. they have no chance anymore to race us because we don't always have to pay reanimate lifecost!

Wish

11-18-2010, 08:49 AM

Hey! wich 3 cards u search with intuition? 2 Big Dudes, and Researcher ? thanks!

JonBarber

11-18-2010, 10:47 AM

Hey! wich 3 cards u search with intuition? 2 Big Dudes, and Researcher ? thanks!

Whatever three cards you need... its a versatile card that's used to find whatever combination of 3 cards you need.

ddt15

11-18-2010, 12:46 PM

Hey! wich 3 cards u search with intuition? 2 Big Dudes, and Researcher ? thanks!

3 Force of Wills... :p

practical joke

11-19-2010, 07:25 AM

3 brainstorms:

If you sideboard show and tell you can go exhume, 2 fatties

Dark Ritual

11-20-2010, 01:02 AM

Intuition is a skill intensive card that always depends on the gamestate. Sometimes the card choie is very simple if you have a show and tell in hand and 3 mana available next turn you get 3 fatties of your choice. If the opponent is casting ad nauseam or cracking an LED in response to something grab 3 forces if you don't have one already. If you have welder in play + an artifact grab 3 fatties. If you need a way to reanimate a fatty grab 3 exhumes/reanimates depending on your opponents deck and whether they have spell snare, counter spells, a fast clock, how much mana they have available, what they have on board. If you have a fatty in hand that you REALLY need in the yard grab 3 hapless researchers/careful studies.

Welding sphinx out turn 2 against an aggro deck with force backup is GG's unless they have a very specific hand that is tooled to beat sphinx. Even then you will likely get one swing in at least with sphinx so you'll be at a goodish life total.

practical joke

11-20-2010, 02:40 AM

jcsy

11-30-2010, 10:07 PM

Thanks, I was aware Entomb could fetch every cards...
What i meant, is that you won't have all those cards in hand most of time...you're talking about a hand with Study, entomb, welder, reanimate, a fatty. Man, how often do you think it happen ?

The welder-less version of the deck plays brainstorm, study and LDV. Even with that, i am not able to find entomb as often/fast as needed.

This new decks plays more lands and can support intuition, which is gonna give the deck more consistence.

By the way, welding Sphinx T2 is (nearly always) GG against all aggro decks. they have no chance anymore to race us because we don't always have to pay reanimate lifecost!

and a STP against your Sphinx will pretty much restart your game plan again..

Intuition can result in many decisions based on your game state, your turn, opponents turn, your selection, his selection and almost will certainly change the game each time whether its played right. While the possibilities are many, you can even use it to play mind games on your opponent , :D

Just me

12-01-2010, 08:04 AM

So I have been messing with the Welder-list a little. It feels very very powerful and yet vulnerable. Currently I'm a little torn between a weaker manabase and abusing Titan to destroy manabases or just playing fetches and duals and use 'normal' reanimator/welding targets.

Intuition is really good in this list as well. It just doubles as soo many good cards in the deck.

I also noticed that the Zoo matchup is incredibly hard since anything you bring out dies to StP or Path to Exile. And Reanimating (paying the life) anyhting is justing asking to be raced to death by death and swarm. Again, you will have to get Iona and you will have to name White or risk getting blown out by White removal.

Anybody with solutions / SB strategies? Because going into any tournament with a bad matchup vs ZOO seems like a bad idea.

Oxmo39

12-01-2010, 08:28 AM

@ Just me : keep in mind that if you want to use a normal manabase, you won't have enough targets anymore for welder...
Howhever i understand why you want to improve the manabase. Most of time, finding a target for welder isn't an issue but i am sometimes stuck with a fattie in the grave but no target to "weld" it.
That's why i don't thnk playing welder without artifact lands is possible.

Just me

12-01-2010, 12:15 PM

Ah, a slight misunderstanding.

Normal for me means about 10-12 artifact lands and fetches + duals. As opposed to 10-12 artifact lands with stuff like Gemstone Mines, City of Brass etc. to improve Titans LD ability (make it one sided).

Oxmo39

12-01-2010, 01:13 PM

Hmm ok, sorry for misunderstanding ;-)

For the moment, i play 18 lands in total (10 artifacts). A mix of 8 fetch and bilands doesn't seem optimal to get you 3 colours...
How many lands do you play ? Do you have a land list to propose ?

Just me

12-01-2010, 04:49 PM

Currently I have;
2 Lotus Petal
4 Seat of Synod
4 Greater Furnace
4 Vault of whispers
4 City of Brass
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Underground Sea (should be Darkslick shores ot another Mine)

As opposed to;
2 Lotus Petal
4 Seat of Synod
2 Greater Furnace
4 Vault of whispers
4 Polluted Delta (or mixture vs Needle)
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
2 Underground sea