[Deck] Reanimator

[Blackmagic]

If I was to add Top to the welder list, is it possible to tap it to draw and then in response weld it still bagging the drawn card with the top ending up in my graveyard?

[practical joke]

Yes, because the only activation the cast has is tapping it. The placement on the top of your deck is part of the actual effect.

[Oxmo39]

This list looks good but i still have questions for you :-) Would you still play Sundering Titan with this build ? Sometimes it will hurt you as much as your opponent...

Have you thought to other fatties for his replacement ? I don't see any other artifact creatures that are stronger than Titan.
If you play titans, i don't see how fetch and bilands can be better then city of brass and mines.

[Just me]

No, I would not play Sundering Titan when playing with fetches and duals.

The deck would gear towards more Sphinxes and stuff like Magister Sphinx (the card that sets your life to 10), Sharuum and maybe Platinum creatures (Angel and Emperion).

[practical joke]

With fetchland and duals you can start playing brainstorm...arguably the best card in the format and being able to manipulate your hand and protect potential parts of your combo is extremely usable in a fragile combo like this is.

Even while playing duals and sundering titan, it's not that bad to play him once. Besides eating a lot of land, without land, your opponent can't do anything while you can still keep recurring artifacts with welder.

Most decks still play duals and other targetable land. So it doesn't really hurt to nom-nom-nom their manabase. You can safely board it out against mono-decks or decks with very few basic-land types.

[Oxmo39]

Currently I have;
2 Lotus Petal
4 Seat of Synod
4 Greater Furnace
4 Vault of whispers
4 City of Brass
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Underground Sea (should be Darkslick shores ot another Mine)

As opposed to;
2 Lotus Petal
4 Seat of Synod
2 Greater Furnace
4 Vault of whispers
4 Polluted Delta (or mixture vs Needle)
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
2 Underground sea

This configuration looks really interesting but is impossible with Titans...The manabase would more stable but i'm not convinced that losing titan is a good idea.
I don't know if there is a stricly better artifact creature than Titan (behalve inkwell and sphinx) ?

During my tests, I was missing Thoughtseize...But i don't know what could be taken out for thoses.
This version has no brainstorm+fetch, so needs to dig aggressively with study and researcher. And i can not see any other pieces that could be removed... Did anybody else miss thoughtseize ?

Anyway, i will bring the deck to a tourney this weekend and i hope i will get answers to our questions...

[Blackmagic]

@ Oxmo39:
Have you taken the deck to a tourney yet, How was it?

(I am still waiting for my welders in the post, so I can't do any proper testing myself)

[Oxmo39]

Yep, i could bring it to a tourney on Sunday but it was horrible.
I explain : i know that i had to mull agressively to find the combo and that's what i did. But even if i had the needed pieces to go off in my starting hand, i wasn't able to protect it. i felt that the deck was too fragile to all the common hate (dicard effects, counters, stp on welder, extirpate & mc fae).

I really missed the protectetions spells that i used to run in the standard reanimator buil : daze, thoughtseize and brainstorm.

Furthermore, if i couldn't go off before T3, the opponent had already developped his gameplan so that he could easily overrun me.

Maybe, it was one of thoses days, but i am really disappointed with the poor results i got.

Conclusions :

- Combo too fragile, too few way to protect it
- too often resiliant on topdeck ( when one piece of the combo was disrupted nor not yet found)
- the fatties we run are not always gamebreaking against aggro decks : our clock is not always as fast as theirs.

Well i know this is maybe not really positive nor constructive, but that is the way i see it

[practical joke]

Yep, i could bring it to a tourney on Sunday but it was horrible.
I explain : i know that i had to mull agressively to find the combo and that's what i did. But even if i had the needed pieces to go off in my starting hand, i wasn't able to protect it. i felt that the deck was too fragile to all the common hate (dicard effects, counters, stp on welder, extirpate & mc fae).

I really missed the protectetions spells that i used to run in the standard reanimator buil : daze, thoughtseize and brainstorm.

Furthermore, if i couldn't go off before T3, the opponent had already developped his gameplan so that he could easily overrun me.

Maybe, it was one of thoses days, but i am really disappointed with the poor results i got.

Conclusions :

- Combo too fragile, too few way to protect it
- too often resiliant on topdeck ( when one piece of the combo was disrupted nor not yet found)
- the fatties we run are not always gamebreaking against aggro decks : our clock is not always as fast as theirs.


in short: teen titans sucks and we have to look back on the older/more common list?
Well i know this is maybe not really positive nor constructive, but that is the way i see it

[Oxmo39]

I have never chosen titan to reanimate. i always wanted to choose creatures immuned to removals : Iona, Inkwell or Sphinx.
I only had Fow to protect myself and it was often used (whan i got it) to protect entom or reanimation spell.

Like i used to play the older version, i always prefered playing a redundant list (with 2 sphinx, 2 inkwell) rather than a toolbox favoring random reanimations.
Even then, the deck seemed not strong enough.

[Karhumies]

So I have been messing with the Welder-list a little.
...
I also noticed that the Zoo matchup is incredibly hard since anything you bring out dies to StP or Path to Exile. And Reanimating (paying the life) anyhting is justing asking to be raced to death by death and swarm. Again, you will have to get Iona and you will have to name White or risk getting blown out by White removal.

Anybody with solutions / SB strategies? Because going into any tournament with a bad matchup vs ZOO seems like a bad idea.

Reanimate Platinum Emperion: he costs no life, and lets you Reanimate everything else without paying life. Also, if you get an active Welder, you can weld the targeted creature (excluding Iona, Sphinx and Welder itself) to your GY to bring out another one. VS many other decks, you could also just Reanimate the Welder and then weld out the big creatures, but vs Zoo's burn spells getting Welder active is more based on luck.

Nevertheless, Iona on white and Sphinx (if you get him to stick) are the best creatures against Zoo. However, even with the traditional animator list I never brought out Sphinx unless I could protect it from the first StoP/PtE. Hopefully, you can also get the Lightning Greaves out on time, because those can be gg for the Zoo player. Especially Sphinx + Greaves = win.

A severe problem vs Zoo with the welder list is Welder's vulnerability to burn spells, and many creatures' vulnerability to Qasali Pridemage. This makes Exhume much worse than usually, as well.

While Inkwell has shroud, he is usually too slow vs Zoo just by himself.

[lolosoon]

Even then, the [Welder-Engine] deck seemed not strong enough.
For you to know, here (http://www.legacy-france.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=5187&view=findpost&p=89403)is the list which made 5th/73 and 8th/236 in a big Event this past WE in France.

The Stronghold Gambit SB Tech was taken from The Source's Sneak&Tell Thread for the lands, landstll, TES matchups as well as some critter-lite decks.

The lack of LDV surprised me, but I trust the pilot enough to say it was probably an optimal choice.

Have a nice discussion about those lists...

[arebennian]

Bring in the Gambits against Trash decks and Control and combo.... what is boarded out?

4 Sphinx's help with the Venvevine and tribal match-ups, but you don't have a lot to board in against these decks and you probably need something.

[Tokobotenkai]

Bring in the Gambits against Trash decks and Control and combo.... what is boarded out?

4 Sphinx's help with the Venvevine and tribal match-ups, but you don't have a lot to board in against these decks and you probably need something.

Ditto-ed on this.

Anyone tried playtesting the deck yet, doesn't feel very consistent to me (since it has neither tutors nor cantrips).

[Lejay]

Consistency is reached by playing more threats (4 S&T) instead of playing more cantrips and tutors. In this configuration 4 brainstorm + 4 careful study seems a good choice.
I have to admit I didn't play the deck in a tournament since MT's ban, and I playtested the deck only a week. But the result has been pretty fine and I don't see what to change atm to improve this UBr list.

[Tokobotenkai]

Oh, I was referring to a combination of both threats and cantrips. But I'll playtest it around since I have most of the cards, haven't touched reanimator since m tutor banning, currently playing sneaky show instead.

[Di]

Given some lists seem to be going in that direction, I figured I'd post my list that has a full Show and Tell suite. I ran this at GP Columbus and went 6-3, losing the last round to miss day 2, and got 10th at a Jupiter Games Lotus event on October 10th:

1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Entomb
3 Show and Tell
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder/Preordain
1 Careful Study
3 Lim-Dul's Vault

4 Force of Will
2 Thoughtseize
2 Daze

4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Swamp

SB:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Show and Tell
3 Pithing Needle
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rushing River
2 Thoughtseize
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Extirpate



The thoughts behind this kind of list are really simple: SnT into Emrakul is outright insane, but having additional fat to throw with SnT is nice. I decided to only run 3/3 of the Show and Tell package maindeck because I found myself having Emrakul stuck in my hand too often without Show and Tell, or multiple Show and Tells and reanimation spells, making the deck too clunky. I also adding another land and more basics to fight Wasteland better because you try to hit 3 mana every game. I also cut down the Daze count in the deck for that same reason, in that it slows you from getting to cast Show and Tell quickly, but it's still quite solid when going for a fast reanimate or exhume. The sideboard is self-explanitory for the most part, but I'd be happy to discuss it further for anyone who has questions.

[jcuvelier]

Hey guys this is John Cuvelier, creator of the deck. If you have any questions feel free to ask, I also played Welder Reanimator at the SCG OPEN after I scrubbed out of the Invitational. I lost in the last round not to make top 8 of the Legacy. If you want my new list just let me know.

[Julian23]

Hi Did, why exactly do you run Dryad Arbor in your sideboard? I checked the opening post as well as some pages in case it was some kind of matchup-specific tech but couldn't find any explanation.

[JonBarber]

Hey guys this is John Cuvelier, creator of the deck. If you have any questions feel free to ask, I also played Welder Reanimator at the SCG OPEN after I scrubbed out of the Invitational. I lost in the last round not to make top 8 of the Legacy. If you want my new list just let me know.

Go ahead and post it. Why do you feel welder based reanimator is better than typical UB right now? I personally feel it'd be better once extirpates are out of most peoples boards because welder is essentially an instant speed reanimate, which dodges T-Crypts, Faerie Macbres, relics, etc.



Hi Did, why exactly do you run Dryad Arbor in your sideboard? I checked the opening post as well as some pages in case it was some kind of matchup-specific tech but couldn't find any explanation.

Its for decks that play edict effects. Most of the fetches can find green, and can get him in response to a sac effect. Same reason some lists used to run bloodghast.

[jcuvelier]

Actually here I'll just post it, this is what I'm currently testing. Slightly different from what I played in Virginia, and a bit different from Boston.

3 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
2 Volcanic Island
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

3 Chrome Mox
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb
4 Goblin Welder
3 Hapless Researcher
4 Exhume
1 Deep Analysis
4 Force of Will
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Sundering Titan
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria


2 Thoughtseize
3 Spell Pierce
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Show and Tell
2 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Mindslaver
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Engineered Explosives


At the Virginia Open this is how my day went:

R1 Goblins - Win
R2 Welder Mirror - Win
R3 Lands - Win
R4 Survival - Win
R5 Survival - Loss
R6 Survival - Win
R7 Ant - Unintentional Draw
R8 Countertop - Loss

I had the ant player dead in 2 more turns, and the countertop ripped a Peacekeeper with lethal on board game 2, and I mulled to oblivion game 3 before flooding out as well.

[jcuvelier]

I feel that the blue decks have a much harder time beating reanimator with welder, as appose to versions without it.

[JonBarber]

I feel that the blue decks have a much harder time beating reanimator with welder, as appose to versions without it.

Why chrome mox over petal? And when do you want the mindslaver in the board?

[jcuvelier]

Mox lets you keep those awkward 1 landers, and sometimes even no landers. also you dont always need to imprint it obv, and just use it at welder fodder. Slaver I use against the combo/control decks. (ant, countertop, show n tell)

[kicks_422]

Your blue count for Force of Will seems alarmingly low, isn't it?

[jcuvelier]

No I think the Blue count is just right. It is very rare that I've had a FOW dead in my hand unless I've already played at least 1. In my experience you normally want a minimum of 16 blue cards to consider playing FOW. I think the deck is just much more powerful with FOW, as oppose to playing thoughtseize over it. However, I am in the process of reconfiguring the deck with a build that does not play FOW just to solidify my choice of playing FOW rather than not. I just 4-0'ed a legacy daily on MODO, so my list will be on there as well. Username: Gosu.

[Sturtzilla]

Greetings,

@jcuvelier(or anyone else who plays this variant): I am skeptical of the Goblin Welder variant of this deck. It just seems like even with counter magic to keep him alive, he will get heavily targeted by your opponents. I do like the concept though. What is the game plan to keep him alive? Simply counter removal that gets pointed at him? It might be a play style thing, but I just don't like that idea.

I have worked out my own normal U/B Reanimator build and would like any feedback on it that I could be given. I have tested it a good bit and for the most part it does really well. I am just looking for comments or thoughts from others playing similar versions.

Creatures: 7
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Spells: 35
4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
2 Thoughtseize
1 Dark Ritual
4 Exhume
3 Daze
4 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will

Lands: 18
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdent Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Marsh Flats
4 Underground Sea
3 Swamp
3 Island

Sideboard
I play in a few different metas. Therefore my board changes from store to store based on what I have seen played there before.

I just have a few general thoughts or questions for other players who play version similar to what I have posted.
1. I many times feel that the 1 copy Dark Ritual is there for the ability to say I can get anything turn one. I don't usually see it or want it when I draw it. What are thoughts on this issue? Is it worth it to potentially go off turn one or should the slot be made something else to more streamline the overall deck?

2. I am running 2 Iona and 2 Inkwell Leviathan. Could these creature slots be better served? I find that since many decks are based in blue and many have complex mana bases Inkwell get the job done rather well because of the islandwalking. Is 1 Iona enough and/or are 2 too many?

3. How has the Show and Tell/Emrakul combo worked out? I would think that out an Emrakul is basically a win unless they have lethal on board/in hand. Is this the case or are there ways in current decks that get rid of him easily (I can't think of any.)?

4. With increased graveyard hate due to tarmgoyf, reanimator, and the vengevine survival, it seems that more Show and Tell could be the way to go. Thoughts on this?

[fdiv_bug]

I have worked out my own normal U/B Reanimator build and would like any feedback on it that I could be given. I have tested it a good bit and for the most part it does really well. I am just looking for comments or thoughts from others playing similar versions.
I like the list, especially the "classic" feel of it; no Welder shenanigans, just binning some fatties and bringing them back. :smile:


1. I many times feel that the 1 copy Dark Ritual is there for the ability to say I can get anything turn one. I don't usually see it or want it when I draw it. What are thoughts on this issue? Is it worth it to potentially go off turn one or should the slot be made something else to more streamline the overall deck?
I agree that a one-of Dark Ritual is probably less than optimal. Dark Ritual is on my list of "4 or 0" type cards, generally speaking. I'd probably consider replacing it with a 4th Daze, since being able to protect the fast combo we've got is important.


2. I am running 2 Iona and 2 Inkwell Leviathan. Could these creature slots be better served? I find that since many decks are based in blue and many have complex mana bases Inkwell get the job done rather well because of the islandwalking. Is 1 Iona enough and/or are 2 too many?
Even though it was a different world with Mystical Tutor, which was the last I played this deck, I always ran 2 Iona and 2 Inky. Sometimes I'd have to bait out removal or grave hate with one of them, and there are times when your opponent will come out of left field with some removal or work-around that you didn't anticipate and you'll have to get another of whatever he just blasted.


4. With increased graveyard hate due to tarmgoyf, reanimator, and the vengevine survival, it seems that more Show and Tell could be the way to go. Thoughts on this?
I had been fooling with the idea of boarding into Worldly Tutor/Show and Tell, since they're almost certainly going to be bringing in graveyard hate against us for games 2 and 3. Never really went anywhere with it, though. Maybe it's time for me to reevaluate and test that.

[whienot]

Jcuvelier, did you ever miss Lightning Greaves? It seems like one of the better cards for this deck. Haste and Shroud is pretty bonkers on Welder and his toys.

[jcuvelier]

There are very few decks in the format that are actively attacking your creatures. Also it is a reanimator deck, not a welder deck. You really don't care if they kill it, but it is very powerful if they leave it on the table. The greaves just wasn't really needed most of the time, it was really more of a "win more" card. But that was just from my experiences with the deck so far.

[Blackmagic]

@jcuvelier: What is you're most recent list looking like?
What are you're expectations for the post survival meta like, are you expecting a lot more merfolk?
what are those match ups like for you, any tech you'd like to share against them? (talking about the merfolk match up and any other you're expecting to see more of)

Some opinions I've read on the welder list are of people wanting to up the count on the creatures which can protect themselves e.g inkwell and sphinx, what has you're experiences been with cards such as the hellkite.

I've been testing a list which runs senseis top with darkblast main, it seems to be working nicely as I find darkblast good against a lot in the format (I'm thinking curse catcher, dark confidant, noble hierarch, goblin lackey etc). The ability to then be able to look at you're top 3 and if there is a fatty in there dredge it into the yard or otherwise if nothing special appears dredge them away and look at the next three. Also being able to tap draw and then weld makes top (and blast) good additions so far, it seems to me at least.

[jcuvelier]

@jcuvelier: What is you're most recent list looking like?
What are you're expectations for the post survival meta like, are you expecting a lot more merfolk?
what are those match ups like for you, any tech you'd like to share against them? (talking about the merfolk match up and any other you're expecting to see more of)

Some opinions I've read on the welder list are of people wanting to up the count on the creatures which can protect themselves e.g inkwell and sphinx, what has you're experiences been with cards such as the hellkite.

I've been testing a list which runs senseis top with darkblast main, it seems to be working nicely as I find darkblast good against a lot in the format (I'm thinking curse catcher, dark confidant, noble hierarch, goblin lackey etc). The ability to then be able to look at you're top 3 and if there is a fatty in there dredge it into the yard or otherwise if nothing special appears dredge them away and look at the next three. Also being able to tap draw and then weld makes top (and blast) good additions so far, it seems to me at least.


I'm expecting the format to go back to mostly everyone playing "safe decks" like merfolk, goblins, counterbalance, zoo, etc. The only deck I have lost to literally is just counterbalance, and one time to survival which is now banned. Goblins, Zoo, and Merfolk are pretty much complete byes. The only tech I have right now for counterbalance is a bayou, and krosan grips in the board.

Although generally speaking, inkwell is probably the best target to get. The thing is, a lot of the time any big guy will do. They are all just situational, and better depending on the matchup. They are all in there for a reason, and I generally find redundancy in having multiples of a creature, and I want different guys for different scenarios. Toolbox is better imo.

In my experience darkblast is unnecessary, but I suppose works fine with what you are saying. Gerry Thompson and I had talked about adding top to the deck. However, it isn't exactly fast, and there isn't a lot of shuffle effects.

[arebennian]

At the Virginia Open this is how my day went:

R1 Goblins - Win
R2 Welder Mirror - Win
R3 Lands - Win
R4 Survival - Win
R5 Survival - Loss
R6 Survival - Win
R7 Ant - Unintentional Draw
R8 Countertop - Loss

I had the ant player dead in 2 more turns, and the countertop ripped a Peacekeeper with lethal on board game 2, and I mulled to oblivion game 3 before flooding out as well.

Have you considered a 1of Darkblast or Volcanic Spray in the side?

[jcuvelier]

Have you considered a 1of Darkblast or Volcanic Spray in the side?

Not really, although I could give it a shot I suppose. Not many decks you really want darkblast against, if at all. But I'll test it next time I get a chance on modo.

Still can't believe Gerry bailed on welder reanimator and built his own version. :/

[JonBarber]

Still can't believe Gerry bailed on welder reanimator and built his own version. :/

He did sorta say he didn't think welder was very good. lol

[jcuvelier]

He did sorta say he didn't think welder was very good. lol

Based on 0 testing btw.

[Mystical_Jackass]

@Jcuvelier

Your list looks pretty awesome, although I've never run the Welder package but it looks really effective giving you that double threat having to worry about dealing with your reanimates or you just welding the creatures right back into play. Sundering Titan just looks like game over with Welder in play. I see you run Myr Battlesphere, which is hilarious, I'd hate to lose to that goofy card, how has that been working for you? Also, have you tried running like 1-2 Intuition in place of the Deep Analysis, its like a functional buried alive/tutor and works well with careful study/hapless researcher as well.

[sigfig8]

Thought about sleeving up Reanimator again, despite the fact that MT is gone. I keep seeing all these tribal decks run rampant, and I feel like Reanimator has good matchups against these decks. And now that Survival is banned, this deck stands to gain even more. What does everyone think? Any chance of taking this back to tier 1(ish)? Or is this deck's success history?

[voltron00x]

I've been testing this 60 and thus far I've liked it, its essentially just putting Preordain in the Mystical slot and adding Cephalid Coliseum to the mana base.


4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
4 Careful Study
4 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Terastodon
1 Blazing Archon
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Platinum Emperion
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
3 Daze
1 Dispel

[JonBarber]

I've been testing this 60 and thus far I've liked it, its essentially just putting Preordain in the Mystical slot and adding Cephalid Coliseum to the mana base.

I feel like ponder is a lot better than preordain because typically your digging for a specific card, not looking for general card quality.

[jcuvelier]

@Jcuvelier

Your list looks pretty awesome, although I've never run the Welder package but it looks really effective giving you that double threat having to worry about dealing with your reanimates or you just welding the creatures right back into play. Sundering Titan just looks like game over with Welder in play. I see you run Myr Battlesphere, which is hilarious, I'd hate to lose to that goofy card, how has that been working for you? Also, have you tried running like 1-2 Intuition in place of the Deep Analysis, its like a functional buried alive/tutor and works well with careful study/hapless researcher as well.

I was playing 2 Intuition in boston, but found that generally it's too slow to be very effective. Battlesphere is very good for allowing multiple blockers if you need then, multiple fodder for welder, and is the fastest clock in the deck. The 1 analysis is just something you can entomb for to draw cards.

[voltron00x]

I actually found that I liked Preordain better after testing both. With Ponder I felt like I was taking a blind shuffle + draw too often.

[jamied1981]

I played the welder version yesterday in a smaller tourney for a unlimited recall.I had a blast playing it and would have made top 8 if my buddy and I didn't play Round two. I went 3-2 losing to my buddy playing Landstill UWb and Ant.
My list:
4x goblin welder
4x hapless rearcher
1x sphinx of the steel wind
1x inkwell leviathan
1x Myr battlesphere
1x Sundering titAn
1x Iona
1x platinum emperion
1x steel hellkite
4x force of will
1x deep analysis
4x careful study
4x exhume
4x entomb
4x Reanimate
2x firestorm
1x show and tell
3x lotus petal
4x seat of synod
4x vault of whispers
3x great furnace
3x city of brass
4x darkslick shores

Sb
2x show and tell
2x stronghold gambit
2x engineered explosives
2x thoughtseize
2x extirpate
2x tormods crypt
3x spell pierce

I played sneak show rd 1 lost game one he had god hand and I beat him next two easy.Rd 2 I lost to my buddy playing Landstill I auto scoop to humility. We played it out because I never played him in tourneys before. Rd 3 I play BUGw Landstill and I beat him 2-0. Rd 4 ANT and get crushed I mull to 5 both games and he gets god hands. Rd5 imperial painter and I lose game one he gets a god hand and I beat him easily next two games. Darkslick shores are coming out and adding gemstone mines for krosan grip for board. This deck is awesome and really fun to play.

[Sturtzilla]

Hello Again,

I recently played the the tournament at Superior Cards in Pittsburgh, PA. I ran a pretty standard version of B/U Reanimator. If you page back a few pages you can see the decklist that I was running. I figured I would give a short report on how my day went out there.

Round 1: Stacy-Playing G/B Rats
This was not a particularly difficult match up. I knew her from our playgroups so the games were fun and spirited even if one sided.

Game 1: She won the roll and played. She got 2 Relentless Rats out on turns 2 and 3 with the assistance of a Chrome Mox. I answered this by a turn two Empyrial Archangel on turn 2 followed by an Iona naming Black on turn three. The game ended shortly thereafter.

Game 2: She was again on the play. I kept a one lander with an island and 2 Brainstorms. This proved to be the wrong move. She played a turn 1 mox again and followed with a turn 2 rat, which I dazed. I dug with the dual Brainstorms until I finally got my reanimation set up for a Sphinx of the Steel Wind.

Record: 2-0-0

Match 2: Rich-Playing Dreadstill/Countertop
This guy while skilled at playing his deck was a bit of a prick. He kept urging fast play when I would search for reanimation targets. What can I say sometimes it takes a minute to find a singleton creature in your library. This guy also went on to win the whole tournament.

Game 1: I came out fast with a turn 3 Iona calling blue to which he scooped. His hand must have been poor because I didn't see anything except for a Force of Will which I Dazed. This made sideboarding difficult.

Game 2: I boarded in show and tells to help the graveyard hate I expected to see. I get a quick Inkwell, turn two. He counters by following with a Peacekeeper. I scoop due to lack of sideboarded material to deal with the lock down.

Game 3: After seeing some more of the deck that game I board in some bounce. I mulligan and keep a 6 card hand on the play. I get a turn 3 Iona, calling blue. Which proved to be a poor choice due to a Peackeeper coming down a turn or two later. I lose to him actually getting eventual removal and the Dreadnought.

Record: 3-2-0

Round 3: Kris-Playing Dreadstill/Countertop
This guy was fun to lay against even if his deck was the same as Rich from the previous round. I later found out that they were buddies and had the same decklist with the exception for a 3/2 split in the sideboard.

Game 1: Dude gets lucky and drops Peacekeeper before I can started wrecking house with an turn two Inkwell. He recovers and beats my face.

Game 2: Even with sideboard, the same thing happened.

Record: 3-4-0

Round 4: Gordon Playing U/G/B Countertopthoper
I didn't really know how to read this guy. Some of his plays didn't make sense to me.

Game 1: He scoops to a turn 2 Inkwell. He tries to Force the exhume but I daze his force.

Game 2: He gets Countertop lock so I scoop for better luck in game 3.

Game 3: Same story as game 1. I get a turn 2 Inkwell and he scoops due to no disruption. The funny part about this one was that I had to Thoughtseize myself to get the Inkwell to the bin. He was really confused when I played it and targeted myself. I am sure it made sense the next turn when I Exhumed...

Record: 5-4-0

Round 5: Vasu-Playing Combo Elves
This guy was nice although a few times he I felt he didn't clearly state what he was doing.

Game 1: I have a fast start and figure he is playing U/G counterbalance due to his tropical island and get a turn two inkwell. Clearly the wrong choice when he starts playing elves on his second turn. He gets his grapeshot for game one turn before I would have had lethal.

Game 2: Same story. I have a ditched Inkwell turn two but couldnt get an Iona into the bin quick enough. He gets me again one turn before I would have won.

Final Record: 5-6-0


Post Tournament Thoughts

I should probably note that this was my first time playing at this store and I was new to the regional meta there. With that said my board was less than optimal for some of my match ups. I didn't expect to have to play against counterbalance quite as much as I did. I also didn't expect to play dreadstill variants twice. My losses could be attributed to a few things, Peacekeeper, counterbalance + top, and poor decision (player error)/poor luck. Following are some thoughts to deal with those issues in the future. I also found it interesting that out of five rounds I saw 0 goyfs and only had my graveyard/target creature removed one time. Considering this, I think Reanimator could still be a deck that can give just about everything out there a good challenge. With the right board I feel future results could be dramatically different.

Peacekeeper
I lost two rounds to this guy single handedly. He gave my opponent enough time to get counterbalance set up, plus a win con, and removal if necessary. I only had bounce in my sideboard so I was not able to effectively deal with him.

To remedy this I figure more Wipe Aways, the addition of Darkblast, and Terastodon will fix this match up. Either bounce and swing for lethal, kill with darkblast, or blow up the white producing land to deal with this issue.

CounterTop
The inclusion of more Wipe Aways in the board along with Pithing Needles and Terastodon will make this slightly more favorable.

Elves
I really should not have lost this match. In game one I should have entombed an Iona and won on the spot. Games two and possibly three Mindbreak Trap would have owned this dude because he didn't run Silence, Orim's Chant, or Discard.

I would love to hear opinions, concerns, or thoughts of other reanimator players.

[voltron00x]

"This guy" is Rich Shay, in case you're curious.

I would suggest you consider using both Wipe Away and a creature that can handle Peacekeeper. I have a Gilded Drake and a Sower of Temptation in my SB for my version of this deck; this came out of testing against Thopters and Dreadstill with Peacekeeper.

[Karhumies]

I would suggest you consider using both Wipe Away and a creature that can handle Peacekeeper. I have a Gilded Drake and a Sower of Temptation in my SB for my version of this deck; this came out of testing against Thopters and Dreadstill with Peacekeeper.

If you know Peacekeeper will be present in the meta, I recommend dedicating one SB slot to 1x Darkblast. It's Entombable and can get rid of multiple Peacekeepers in the course of one game (unless they have Counter-top set up). Especially against 4c Jacestill variants which run Peacekeeper from the board, Darkblast is awesome. Including it in the 75 does not decrease the need for SB Wipe Aways versus C.balance decks, though.

[Sturtzilla]

"This guy" is Rich Shay, in case you're curious.

Yea I know of him. Forgive me if I don't worship him for writing a few articles. His analysis of various formats doesn't change the fact that he was more than a bit rude during the course of our games. There is no reason you can't be friendly with your opponent.

I was personally going to run Triskelion and the Terastodon as anti-Peacekeeper options. Sower of Temptation is a pretty solid option as well. Thanks for the idea.

[Equinozio]

What cards do we have to hate Leyline of void, bouncers and S&T, only? Any idea?? I found crosis charm is URB ( too much cost I think) but is a bouncer, artifact hate and creature removal ( non-black) all at once.

[moseby]

for leyline or I have also seen zoo and mono white run wheel of sun and moon, as it also doubles as hate for painter grindstone decks.
Option 1: Bounce most sensible builds mainboard atleast 1 piece normally, echoing truth which also hates on dredge, and empty decks. The other choice is wipe away to deal with crap like counter top.

Option 2: Hate; for this you will need to splash a 3rd colour, normally green that you can run Kgrip or natures claim I favour Kgrip because only a blind counter balance can get it. i Normally run 1 bayou I can fetch + a dryad arbor in the board.

Option 3: Dodge the hate play show and tell. Not great if you are playing other S&T/Sneak decks, or belcher.

If you are playing the welder version, I think you are pretty much boned.

[kusumoto]

Yea I know of him. Forgive me if I don't worship him for writing a few articles. His analysis of various formats doesn't change the fact that he was more than a bit rude during the course of our games. There is no reason you can't be friendly with your opponent.

I was personally going to run Triskelion and the Terastodon as anti-Peacekeeper options. Sower of Temptation is a pretty solid option as well. Thanks for the idea.

Terastodon seems like a bad out against Peacekeeper . Are you eating their lands? I would think that wouldn't stop them from paying it's upkeep too often.

[Karhumies]

for leyline or I have also seen zoo and mono white run wheel of sun and moon, as it also doubles as hate for painter grindstone decks.
...
If you are playing the welder version, I think you are pretty much boned.

Some personal favorites:

Non-counterbalance meta: Splash green for Maelstrom Pulse. Gets even rid of multiple Leylines at once, and is Personal Tutorable (decks running Leyline do not very often run counterspells, so revealing your anti-hate should not be an issue). Blue equivalent is Echoing Truth.
Counterbalance meta: Krosan Grip / Wipe Away

Non-Sneak meta: Show and Tell

More random options:
1) Hardcasting creatures which either get rid of Leyline or win you the game
e.g. Dominus of the Fealty, Spellbound Dragon

2) Gain control of the Leyline for enough time to put stuff in your grave
e.g. Steal Enchantment, Commandeer (latter worked better with Mystical Tutor, though)

3) Steal creatures from the opponent
e.g. Thoughtcast opponent + Reanimate, Gilded Drake
NOTE: Usually you don't plan to win this way; you just need to buy time with this method before you can re-setup your plan A

4) Highlander favorites:
4a) Deathrender + low mana creatures. Works quite well in the Goblin Welder build. Splashing white for Stoneforge Mystic is possible (although not necessarily worth the SB slots), if you also run the haste boots.
4b) Master Transmuter
Both of these plans require you to run lots of mana acceleration to be fast enough, though.

5) Doomsday-Shelldock Isle-Emrakul sideboard to go around the grave hate

6) Helm of Obedience - Leyline of the Void transitional sideboard (= you abandon the reanimation plan for game 2)

[Sturtzilla]

Terastodon seems like a bad out against Peacekeeper . Are you eating their lands? I would think that wouldn't stop them from paying it's upkeep too often.

It depends on the build and how invested in white they are. In many counterbalance builds I have seen, Peacekeeper will hit the table with one or two white sources. In those cases the Terastodon is pretty solid. There probably are other options that are better like Darkblast or bounce but he is yet another out.

[Scordata]

So a fellow sourcer and myself are tweaking with jcuvelier's list.
Here's my take on it:

// Lands
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [U] Underground Sea
3 [B] Volcanic Island
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers

// Creatures
1 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [ARB] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 [DS] Sundering Titan
1 [CFX] Inkwell Leviathan
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 [SOM] Steel Hellkite
1 [SOM] Myr Battlesphere
4 [UL] Goblin Welder

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Careful Study
4 [TE] Reanimate
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Entomb
4 [US] Exhume
1 [WWK] Dispel - **Currently testing Misdirection in this slot as well**
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [NE] Daze

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [US] Show and Tell
SB: 2 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [MR] Mindslaver

We didn't like the "all-in" feeling and card disadvantage for the Chrome Moxes, so those were the first to go.
We also felt that Deep Analysis didn't do what we wanted it to. 4CMC ment you were almost never going to cast it from your hand, and in a deck that relies to heavily on life as a resource, we felt that the 3 life paid was not worth the extra 2 cards in hand. That being said, it is probably needed in lists that rely on chrome mox for the early aggressive start.

Force of Will was not enough protection, period. Daze was included as aditional counter backup, along with either a Dispel, or the "5th" Force, Misdirection. You really want to be tapping out as much as you can with this build, and those cards will help protect your reanimation spells and targets long enough for you to "get there."

The tops were included not only to up the artifact count, but to help filter. This is OKish with the lack of fetchlands because Carful Study can help you mill crap cards from the top, and as well as its usual synergies with the deck can be awesome. My friend is currently testing Ponders in its place, and petals instead of moxes. YMMV, let's try to restore this deck to its former glory.

FYI - an early CBTop lock roflstomps this deck, so don't worry about blowing your forces on them - just reanimate the inkwell and win.

[Blackmagic]

I agree let's try as this deck is awesome fun to play!

I wanna ask why no hapless researcher in you're list? to me the card has been awesome, the instant discard ability and the fact that he's blue has been brilliant to me. He can block for a turn and I've even used reanimate on him to discard a fatty from my hand so that I can weld it back.

I like lotus petal (not a fan of moxes myself either) as it not only accelerates but also fixes mana, so often a hand with only petal and study is acceptable as I know I'll be able t dig 2 and probably get a land and in the process already have a fatty in the graveyard.

I would also recommend testing preordain instead of ponders the often blind drawing isn't to my liking.

Another couple of random options I want to put up for discussion are:

Gilded Drake sb against show and tell decks

Also fleshbag marauder as it can kill emrakul and progenitus in the Show+sneak match ups

Darkblast , it can also get rid of a bad top 3 cards and drop a fatty in the yard if you see it with top, or you can use the instant drawing capability of top or researcher to dredge something into the yard. plus it kills quite a few creatures and it is also an "uncounterable" way of getting fatties in the yard.

Wurmcoil Engine can also be awesome with welder as you'll bag two tokens when welding him away, I know he's got some faults like swords but so does other creatures as well.

[Scordata]

@Blackmagic:
We've discussed Wormcoil engine lots, and decided he's probably at best a sideboard or metagame choice. The other fatties are more well-rounded. If your opponent sends wormcoil farming, thats just really bad for you. At 6 cmc, however, you can actually cast him, which may be relevant in some scenarios. The same can be said for including lotus petal when it comes to sphinx.

We had to cut something for the dazes, and hapless researcher was the worst card in the deck. Not saying that there aren't corner cases where he isn't useful, like the one you mentioned above, but you really want to be doing more for your mana in this deck that playing a 1/1 with a draw discard ability. IF it said draw 2 and discard 2, he'd probably still be in the deck.

As for preordain vs ponder: this is by and large a combo deck. Card filtering is king here, and since ponder helps you see more cards, we feel it is a better fit. How is a blind shuffle off ponder any better than drawing blind on preordain? I suppose there less chance you'll draw the cards you put on bottom. That being said, however, with the additional card information off ponder, it allows you to make more in-depth decisions regarding your hand. This is the chief reason I prefer SDT in this slot. Don't forget that entomb can be used as a shuffle effect as well, and that carful study will mill yourself so you can see fresh cards. These sorts of plays are crucial to maximizing your success with this deck.

[The Atog Lord]

Dear Sturtzilla,

I cannot count how many times I have kept quiet, and said nothing while an opponent's speed of play ground to a crawl. Time and again, I would watch as an opponent played slowly, and I found myself with a draw for a match that I believe I ought to have won. In all of those cases, however, I had no one to blame but myself. I should have said something.

I am not posting here to accuse you of stalling. I simply observed that you were playing slowly -- especially after winning the first game. And I merely asked you to ``play at a reasonable pace.'' If that makes me a ``prick'' in your book, so be it. And if calling people names on Magic forums makes you feel better about yourself, I am not here to judge that either.

[NyxathidHorror]

So a fellow sourcer and myself are tweaking with jcuvelier's list.
Here's my take on it:

// Lands
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [U] Underground Sea
3 [B] Volcanic Island
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers

// Creatures
1 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [ARB] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 [DS] Sundering Titan
1 [CFX] Inkwell Leviathan
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 [SOM] Steel Hellkite
1 [SOM] Myr Battlesphere
4 [UL] Goblin Welder

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Careful Study
4 [TE] Reanimate
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Entomb
4 [US] Exhume
1 [WWK] Dispel - **Currently testing Misdirection in this slot as well**
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [NE] Daze

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [US] Show and Tell
SB: 2 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [MR] Mindslaver



Very solid build; I've been wanting to test the welder version, so I think I'll give this a shot. Battlesphere looks like mad fun.

How has the Hellkite been? I thought about testing it in my B/U version, but it looks much more suited here.

[Equinozio]

Last saturday I played the following list being the winner of a 40 man more or less tourney.

Criaturas [14]
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
3 Hapless Researcher
4 Goblin Welder

Instantaneos [12]
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will

Conjuros [14]
3 Preordain
3 Reanimate
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume

Encantamientos [1]
1 Animate Dead

Artefactos [2]
2 Chrome Mox

Tierras [17]
1 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Seat of the Synod

Side borad
2 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Show and Tell
2 Thoughtseize
3 Spell Pierce
2 echoing truth
1 darkblast
1 confin purge


Pairings
Merfolks MonoBlue 2-1 If he would played well I would lost, but he decided that with letal damange throw Lord of atlantis was not relevant and removed my graveyard witha bluff. Entomb to emperion and GG. Next game decide not to cut a relevant spell with pierce.
BUG Landsill 2-1 Difficult becouse of extirpate.
Big zoo 2-1 I loose the second because I decided that a turn two clock was more important than a 3 turn clock with shroud... so i loose.
RGB Goblins 2-1 It's difficult but he didn't mull to hate so i can play well.
RGB Goblins ID
Dredge ID
Top
Zoo 2-0
Dredge 2-1 There are vides. I'll post as soon they are available.
RGWB Loam 2-1 There are vides. I'll post as soon they are available.

Now I'll add and duplicant for a show and tell.

I prefere preordain to evade blind draws from a random shuffle. And Hapless has been really awsome. To reanimate and discard a new fatty or to remove bridge from bellow, and stop a block from a tarmogoyf and win the race.

[NyxathidHorror]

Good job on your 1st place finish Equinozio!

I'm going to test Researcher; I've been using Pimp's in those slots. On paper, Researcher doesn't seem to be as consistent as Pimp at discarding. You guys seem to be proving that theory wrong though.

[Equinozio]

Here you can see the videos fo the final at the bottom of the page.

http://www.ingeniobcn.com/?p=276

[jamis]

Has anyone tested with Twilight Shepherd? It seems solid against decks running sacrifice effects since not only does it have Persist, but also gets back the Entomb and Reanimate when it comes into play. Just curious if it's been considered.

[Scordata]

Twilight Shepard is actually a beast when used in conjunction with Careful Study. Ancestral Recall? Yes, please.

Only problem is if you dumped another fatty that turn. You'd have to reanimate the other creature first.

The only problem is that the creature is not necessarily backbreaking. I think it's worth a shot, even in the Sideboard. Nice find.

[whienot]

Twilight Shepherd's oracle text:


Flying, vigilance

When Twilight Shepherd enters the battlefield, return to your hand all cards in your graveyard that were put there from the battlefield this turn.

Persist (When this creature is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it.)

Instants and sorceries are never on the battlefield.

[Scordata]

Duh, I can't believe I didn't notice that. Oh well.
Glissa the traitor is an interesting creature that may combo with mindslaver. Also actually castable. I'm looking into this.

[jamis]

Well, that makes Shepard less good. Alright, nevermind.

[NyxathidHorror]

I'm starting to really like Platinum Emperion. I think Blazing Archon is better in more match ups, and flying is really nice, but Emperion has been a complete hoser against a few of the decks I've tested against.

Works well with Reanimate as well; makes activating mid-late game possible.

[Equinozio]

The only think I don't like of platinium emperion is that you can't protect it with fow like you can with Blazing Archon... But it fills the same role.

[The Undertaker]

Hi Equinozio,

I've started testing your list, but i always have problems during sideboarding. Can you post your sideboard plans against tier decks?

Thanks

[NyxathidHorror]

The only thing I don't like of platinum emperion is that you can't protect it with fow like you can with Blazing Archon... But it fills the same role.

Agreed. If you're playing Goblin Welder, then it becomes less of an issue I believe. I've had more than a couple games where Welder has been the focal point of my opponent's removal, thus saving whichever fatty I'm smashing them with.

[Equinozio]

Agreed. If you're playing Goblin Welder, then it becomes less of an issue I believe. I've had more than a couple games where Welder has been the focal point of my opponent's removal, thus saving whichever fatty I'm smashing them with.

Yes, that's sure. But yesterday I had double wlder with a platinium facing a zoo player. In one turn If i could fow'ed his qasali I had win next turn because hi didn't have any creature to block. I had to wait until i was sure he had no more options and I take my platinium to grave, play fow and then weld it again to play to gain next turn. Without double welder on table that's pretty much imposible.

I'll try to make my sideboards with a friend and post it this night ( Spain )

[RexFTW]

Incase you missed it:


Reanimator
A Legacy Magic deck, by Kyle Kloster
11th place at a StarCityGames.com Legacy Open tournament in Indianapolis on 2011-02-06
As reported at http://www.starcitygames.com
Maindeck:

Artifact Creatures
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Creatures
1 Blazing Archon
4 Putrid Imp
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Terastodon

Enchantments
3 Animate Dead

Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will

Legendary Creatures
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Sorceries
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate

Basic Lands
4 Island
4 Swamp

Lands
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
4 Pithing Needle
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Spell Pierce
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

[NyxathidHorror]

Yes, that's sure. But yesterday I had double wlder with a platinium facing a zoo player. In one turn If i could fow'ed his qasali I had win next turn because hi didn't have any creature to block. I had to wait until i was sure he had no more options and I take my platinium to grave, play fow and then weld it again to play to gain next turn. Without double welder on table that's pretty much imposible.

I'll try to make my sideboards with a friend and post it this night ( Spain )

I've misplayed a couple times while trying to play Lim-Dul's Vault; I don't have FoW's (got rid of my set when I quit playing years ago).

Emperion can be a double edged sword at times.

[RexFTW]

If you cant afford force, try unmask. In some circumstances it is actually better.

[NyxathidHorror]

If you cant afford force, try unmask. In some circumstances it is actually better.

I'm actually trying to get a set off ebay. I REALLY regret getting rid of my collection; I could be trading for duals/power now...

=/

[menace13]

A recent huge Legacy event in Japan had Reanimator win 1st place. Anyone have the link?

[Davetradint]

A recent huge Legacy event in Japan had Reanimator win 1st place. Anyone have the link?

Ancient memory convention? I could not get the top8 decklists from there, plus my japanese is ZERO, so we'll have to wait. If it's another tournament, could anyone please share a link?

Which variant of the deck is having better results in the last weeks? UB classic? UBr with Firestorms? Welder-mator?

[Equinozio]

Hi Equinozio,

I've started testing your list, but i always have problems during sideboarding. Can you post your sideboard plans against tier decks?

Thanks

I normally side out :
1 welder
1 careful
1 entomb
1 reanimate
2 fows

To bring 4 cards of what I think they would bring to hate me between ( pithing, EE and echoing truth). Then depending on the pairgin and some specific hate i change what i side out and side in.

For example: Vs black decks I bring S&T and echoing ( 3 cards ) for sure and the rest depending on what looks like the list.
Zoo normally I side in pithing, ee and echoing.
Ichorid I don't side out fow and entomb to try to counter the first move they do and try to find and emperion.
I think you have to try and feel confortable with what you bring and what you side out.

I'm not very specific but there is no rule for that.



Which variant of the deck is having better results in the last weeks? UB classic? UBr with Firestorms? Welder-mator?

A friend of mine made top1 on saturday and top2/split on sunday width UBr firestorms. Both tournament where 40 or more people. There's a report in spanish here http://zasca-team.blogspot.com/2011/02/report-ganador-2-ingenio-12-feb-y-top.html

[menace13]

Ancient memory convention? I could not get the top8 decklists from there, plus my japanese is ZERO, so we'll have to wait. If it's another tournament, could anyone please share a link?

Which variant of the deck is having better results in the last weeks? UB classic? UBr with Firestorms? Welder-mator?
I couldn't remember the name. A friend told me, but he couldn't find the lists. Will get more info on it later. You might be correct.

[NyxathidHorror]

I couldn't remember the name. A friend told me, but he couldn't find the lists. Will get more info on it later. You might be correct.

Who is the person that you have quoted in your sig?

Also, does anybody have a list with Firestorm? I'm guessing it runs Firestorm's, and Lightning Bolt's for creature control? I can see how that list would fare better against the greater portion of the meta.

[menace13]

Who is the person that you have quoted in your sig?

Also, does anybody have a list with Firestorm? I'm guessing it runs Firestorm's, and Lightning Bolt's for creature control? I can see how that list would fare better against the greater portion of the meta.
No clue, but he's bad a$$.

The event is named Eternal Party and not AMC. Not sure what was in the deck. This is the coverage site;
http://bigmagic.blog116.fc2.com/

[NyxathidHorror]

No clue, but he's bad a$$.

The event is named Eternal Party and not AMC. Not sure what was in the deck. This is the coverage site;
http://bigmagic.blog116.fc2.com/

I'm wondering if it's a friend of mine. The name is similar, but not exact. I know that he use to browse these forums....

If any of you guys can translate what's on this site, that would be awesome! I wish I could read Japanese....lol

[RexFTW]

I'm wondering if it's a friend of mine. The name is similar, but not exact. I know that he use to browse these forums....

If any of you guys can translate what's on this site, that would be awesome! I wish I could read Japanese....lol

Durrr. Here you are:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fbigmagic.blog116.fc2.com%2F

[NyxathidHorror]

Durrr. Here you are:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fbigmagic.blog116.fc2.com%2F

Google translate doesn't work that well with my system (Fedora), for whatever reason.

I can see the variety of decks that appeared though. Quite the meta; looks like it was a pretty good tourney.

[Clark Kant]

That's awesome that Reanimator came in first in the large Japanese tournament. When will we have the list?


Incase you missed it:


Reanimator
A Legacy Magic deck, by Kyle Kloster
11th place at a StarCityGames.com Legacy Open tournament in Indianapolis on 2011-02-06
As reported at http://www.starcitygames.com
Maindeck:

Artifact Creatures
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Creatures
1 Blazing Archon
4 Putrid Imp
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Terastodon

Enchantments
3 Animate Dead

Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will

Legendary Creatures
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Sorceries
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate

Basic Lands
4 Island
4 Swamp

Lands
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
4 Pithing Needle
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Spell Pierce
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

I really like this list a lot. It seems extremely well thought out, much faster than all the Lim Dul's Vault lists and more consistent than all the Welder based lists people keep posting, and every card in it plays it's role perfectly.

[NyxathidHorror]

^ Agreed. I'm surprised at the lack of Stormtide Leviathan in most reanimator lists. In testing, it's shown better results than Platinum Emperion and Blazing Archon for me.

Of course

- Platinum Emperion is better with Goblin Welder.
- Blazing Archon is better against fish.

That's being meta-specific. My testing has been against the generalized populace.

[Shabbaman]

Platinum Emperion and Stormtide Leviathan don't protect you from Emrakul, Blazing Archon does.

[practical joke]

With stormtide leviathan you still lose to emrakul and more importantly merfolk.

blazing archon is able to hose both. while also being able to stop most other decks like stormtide can.
For legacy the archon is way stronger than stormtide.

Platinum emperion is crap, there's hardly any deck where I want this one instead of anything else.


please name me a single deck where stormtide leviathan is better than any other option available for reanimate already included.
- sphinx of the steel wind
- iona shield of emeria
- blazing archon

name it.

[menace13]

With stormtide leviathan you still lose to emrakul and more importantly merfolk.

blazing archon is able to hose both. while also being able to stop most other decks like stormtide can.
For legacy the archon is way stronger than stormtide.

Platinum emperion is crap, there's hardly any deck where I want this one instead of anything else.


please name me a single deck where stormtide leviathan is better than any other option available for reanimate already included.
- sphinx of the steel wind
- iona shield of emeria
- blazing archon

name it.

Dredge. I would rather have Stormtide against Dredge due to the SImps clogging the air.

[NyxathidHorror]

With stormtide leviathan you still lose to emrakul and more importantly merfolk.


-Blazing Archon is better against fish.


^ I agree with Emrakul.



Platinum emperion is crap, there's hardly any deck where I want this one instead of anything else.




- Platinum Emperion is better with Goblin Welder.


^Also better against Tendrils-based combo.



For legacy the archon is way stronger than stormtide.

In most situations.

Stormtide is a faster clock than Archon as well. Going into a blind meta, of course I'm going to play Archon.

[practical joke]

Iona wins those games easily as well.

emperium loses against burning wish (name a single TES deck that has no artifact hate for wishboard)
After sidebaording an emperion does nothing except catch bounce, good luck after that vs ANT

Against dredge you can wait for ages and ignore the imps untill you get a second creature out, namely sphinx of the steel wind. It buys you that much time.

mostly you can beat before they realize they can play that imp and block.

[RexFTW]

This is why he plays all 3..... so he can entomb the one he needs. They are all better in certain situations.

Stormtide has Islandwalk.

p.s. Putrid Imp mostly cant block. Plz know ur stuff if your going to post. However, dredge players will TRY to block.

While we are on the topic, the best way to beat dredge is extirpate bridges, Iona -> black then blazing archon.

[Scordata]

So I think that if you are playing the non-welder version you are better off running less artifact creatures for the simple reason that it opens you to less hate.

Thunder dragon is also a contender, but id only use him if I didn't already own an archon.

[Xiang]

This is why he plays all 3..... so he can entomb the one he needs. They are all better in certain situations.

Stormtide has Islandwalk.

p.s. Putid Imp cant block. Plz know ur stuff if your going to post.

Dude SImp means probably Stinkweed Imp -.-
Perhaps you should read before posting?

[RexFTW]

Dude SImp means probably Stinkweed Imp -.-
Perhaps you should read before posting?

U try getting to 3 lands in a deck that plays 16 lands or less and never draws a card.


So I think that if you are playing the non-welder version you are better off running less artifact creatures for the simple reason that it opens you to less hate.
The non welder version runs animate dead, which dies to the same hate as artifact creatures in most cases.

[practical joke]

U try getting to 3 lands in a deck that plays 16 lands or less and never draws a card.


The non welder version runs animate dead, which dies to the same hate as artifact creatures in most cases.

Dredge does that...if they don't blazing archon easily goes all the way since the deck has no blockers at all...and most importantly not attackers!

I still have a classic non-welder list laying around.
No animate dead involved, since it's absolutely not needed.

Also I'd choose either blazing archon or stormtide leviathan since they both are trying to do the same, stormtide creating a faster clock, while blazing archon shuts down a damn lot more. Stormtide really is just a bit "meh", it just doesn't do it.

You really don't improve a match-up that blazing archon cannot take care off.

Even in nowadays legacy meta, iona is by far the best target, followed by sphinx of the steel wind and blazing archon.
There's abuttload of creatures behind it, but they're all "okay", nothing more than just "okay"
And when sex is "just okay", you aren't satisfied either. be picky.

terastodon,
it that betrays,
stormtide leviathan,
akroma,
angel of despair.

They simply don't cut it, except that akroma kicks ass against certain decks.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm talking about classic builds, not the welder variants, since I have not tested any welder variant.

[RexFTW]

Agree, the only creatures you NEED are Sphinx (Agro), Iona (combo), Inkwell (control), Archon (merefolk).

1 Terastadon in the board is good vs random things, edicts, and combo (1 turn clock). Woodfall Primus plays much the same roll

Havent tried Myr Battlesphere yet. If its good enough for vintage it is probably good enough for legacy so its probably worth trying.

[menace13]

You cant take your time against Dredge with any target. They will get to 3 lands and will play S.Imp not only that but Moebas can block flyers too and leave behind 1-4 tokens. Or Therapy, Ichorid+Token beats until they Chain of Vapor your creature.
Iona on black is fine against them, but then you can still get blown out by Breakthrough and/or Colesium.

Battlesphere seems okay, although i can not think where I would go for Battleball in Legacy(It's good in Vintage when you need to Tinker with Jace on the board and will almost always be unblocked) that another creature the deck plays wont be better.

Animate Dead seems better than Reanimate or Exhume against Merf and Gobs.

[vikram]

IMO, hapless researcher >>>> putrid imp. You can dump it to FoW, it can actually block stuff and it draws you a card otherwise the list is perfect


Incase you missed it:


Reanimator
A Legacy Magic deck, by Kyle Kloster
11th place at a StarCityGames.com Legacy Open tournament in Indianapolis on 2011-02-06
As reported at http://www.starcitygames.com
Maindeck:

Artifact Creatures
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Creatures
1 Blazing Archon
4 Putrid Imp
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Terastodon

Enchantments
3 Animate Dead

Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will

Legendary Creatures
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Sorceries
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate

Basic Lands
4 Island
4 Swamp

Lands
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
4 Pithing Needle
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Spell Pierce
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

[Shabbaman]

IMO, hapless researcher >>>> putrid imp. You can dump it to FoW, it can actually block stuff and it draws you a card otherwise the list is perfect

There's a trick with Putrid Imp that you can't do with Hapless Researcher. When you play something like Exhume, and they remove your target in response, then you can put another target in the bin in response.

[fdiv_bug]

There's a trick with Putrid Imp that you can't do with Hapless Researcher. When you play something like Exhume, and they remove your target in response, then you can put another target in the bin in response.

Why can't you do that with Hapless Researcher as well? Exhume, creature you want gets exiled, so you sac the Researcher, draw a card, and then discard another creature to bring back with the original Exhume. Is there something I'm missing?

[Equinozio]

Why can't you do that with Hapless Researcher as well? Exhume, creature you want gets exiled, so you sac the Researcher, draw a card, and then discard another creature to bring back with the original Exhume. Is there something I'm missing?

If you have only one discard outlet aka ( putrid or hapless ) you can only do that with putrid. But you need two creatures on hand... :$

[fdiv_bug]

If you have only one discard outlet aka ( putrid or hapless ) you can only do that with putrid. But you need two creatures on hand... :$

OK, I must be confused here. I'm gonna break it down step by step. Here's how this plays out with Putrid Imp:

1. You cast Exhume.
2. In response, they exile your, say, Iona from the yard.
3. After they exile her, but still before Exhume resolves, you activate Putrid Imp's ability to discard, say, Inkwell Leviathan.
4. No one else does anything, so Exhume brings your Leviathan back.

Here's Hapless Researcher:

1. You cast Exhume.
2. In response, they exile your Iona.
3. After they exile her, but still before Exhume resolves, you activate Hapless Researcher's ability sacrificing him to draw a card, then discard Inkwell Leviathan.
4. No one else does anything, so Exhume brings your Leviathan back.

The net effect seems identical to me, aside from Hapless Researcher's ability cantripping and leaving you with the same number of cards in hand at the cost of his life, whereas Putrid Imp can be used repeatedly for such shenanigans. What am I overlooking? Is the repeatability the important part?

[Equinozio]

Is the repeatability the important part?

I guess... But blue and 'cantrip' seems very nice too.

[fdiv_bug]

I guess... But blue and 'cantrip' seems very nice too.

I agree. I'm actually more in favor of Hapless Researcher for those very reasons, despite having been a PImp fan for a while.

[ac3eb]

How about a 2/2 split between HR and PImp? Sometimes having a constant discard outlet can be better, whereas having a couple more blue spells is great for FOW (which I have found to be great in last night's testing).

On a side note, the aggro match-ups I've played (zoo and goblins) have been fairly straightforward (though weirding and stingscourger can be problematic at times of course). D&T hasn't been that much of an issue either, the 4 pithing needle really shine. However, CB is quite rampant lately, and I feel like having a couple more maindeck counters might be beneficial?

I was thinking somewhere along the lines of... -1 PImp, -1 stormtide leviathan, +2 spell pierce. 1 less PImp and 1 less creature go hand in hand, and spell pierce is a great answer to nearly any hate you can encounter during T1-4?

[RexFTW]

OK, I must be confused here. I'm gonna break it down step by step. Here's how this plays out with Putrid Imp:

1. You cast Exhume.
2. In response, they exile your, say, Iona from the yard.
3. After they exile her, but still before Exhume resolves, you activate Putrid Imp's ability to discard, say, Inkwell Leviathan.
4. No one else does anything, so Exhume brings your Leviathan back.

Here's Hapless Researcher:

1. You cast Exhume.
2. In response, they exile your Iona.
3. After they exile her, but still before Exhume resolves, you activate Hapless Researcher's ability sacrificing him to draw a card, then discard Inkwell Leviathan.
4. No one else does anything, so Exhume brings your Leviathan back.

The net effect seems identical to me, aside from Hapless Researcher's ability cantripping and leaving you with the same number of cards in hand at the cost of his life, whereas Putrid Imp can be used repeatedly for such shenanigans. What am I overlooking? Is the repeatability the important part?

PImp can discard the original, and the second though.

[vikram]

Novablast Wurm seems like it has decimate potential. It can sometimes kill Emrakul as well. I like it over Terastodon vs aggro decks.

[ac3eb]

I don't think terastodon is the creature you want to be entomb'ing against aggro. Iona perhaps? Or sphinx of steel wind against gobbos. Novablast gets killed by a path, swords, etc.

[Peruzo]

I just love the undead gladiator, it's one of my favorite cards of all time, It cycles every card in your deck with a little time!

[Dia_Bot]

I just love the undead gladiator, it's one of my favorite cards of all time, It cycles every card in your deck with a little time!

Still it is a bit too mana intensive for my taste.

[konsultant]

Not for nothing and I haven't really gone throw all the pages here. It seams like people are so hung up on the blue splash. I've gone back to Black with green in the s/b.

I feel like you have to do two things with this deck.

first is go fast

second is make sure you put the correct creature into play.

He is my list that I've been using and working on. For the people that care.

3 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Entomb
4 Undead Gladiator
4 Buried Alive
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Animate Dead
4 Dark Ritual
2 Lotus Petal
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Hellkite Overlord
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steelwind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Reya Dawnbringer
1 Novablast Wurm

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
2 Ancient Tomb
6 Swamp

S/B

4 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
1 Thunder Dragon
4 Cabal Therapy
3 City of Solitude

This is the "B/U Reanimator Thread". Perhaps you should start a B/G Reanimator thread.

[The Pharmacist]

This is the "B/U Reanimator Thread". Perhaps you should start a B/G Reanimator thread.

Goodpoint!

[ac3eb]

I've been testing out the 11th place - SCG reanimator list quite extensively over the past few days, and felt uncomfortable with two things:

1) Not enough blue spells to pitch to FOW
2) Not enough card draw/selection

What I noticed from playing the deck over and over is that it suffers, as with every combo deck I guess, of variance. More importantly, it only runs 4 brainstorm and 4 careful study as "card draw", and I often found myself holding 2 exhume, a reanimate and no way to put a creature in the graveyard (or vice versa).

Also, and what perhaps bothered me the most, was the lack of blue cards I had available to pitch to FOW. Because the deck only runs 17 lands and not a lot of card draw, I always wanted to use my brainstorms and careful studies to find an extra land (getting to 2 lands was a lot more annoying than I thought it'd be) or just whatever card I was lacking.

I made a few changes that I propose below:

Artifact Creatures
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Creatures
1 Blazing Archon
2 Putrid Imp
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Terastodon
+1 Hapless Researcher

Enchantments
3 Animate Dead

Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will

Legendary Creatures
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Sorceries
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
+2 Ponder

Basic Lands
4 Island
4 Swamp

Lands
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea

I took out a PImp and P. emperion for 2 ponders. I also switched 1 PImp for 1 H. researcher as it performs a very similar role in the deck but also digs you a card and pitches to FOW. This gives you 3 more spells to pitch to FOW and lets you filter through the deck a bit more. The changes aren't huge obviously, but I've been testing it and I liked the changes. I also want to fit an extra land somewhere, probably another bloodstained mire, as I ended up having to mulligan way too much because I just didn't have lands.

[RexFTW]

1) Not enough blue spells to pitch to FOW
2) Not enough card draw/selection

What I noticed from playing the deck over and over is that it suffers, as with every combo deck I guess, of variance. More importantly, it only runs 4 brainstorm and 4 careful study as "card draw", and I often found myself holding 2 exhume, a reanimate and no way to put a creature in the graveyard (or vice versa).

Also, and what perhaps bothered me the most, was the lack of blue cards I had available to pitch to FOW. Because the deck only runs 17 lands and not a lot of card draw, I always wanted to use my brainstorms and careful studies to find an extra land (getting to 2 lands was a lot more annoying than I thought it'd be) or just whatever card I was lacking.


I have been testing Unmask with great success. It helps address the same 2 points you are making: you dont pitch blue cards, and it can be a discard outlet. It also enables turn 1 unmask -> reanimate draws.


There are 2 keys to playing this deck I think:
1) Always "go for it" as soon as possible. Build your deck to go off as quickly as possible.
2) Creature choice is key.

[The Pharmacist]

My deck list is much different then what you guys play, but I'm going to test this out. I was just wondering if anyone has tried or thought of this

Emerakul the Aeons Torn Trigger on the stack
Shallow Grave

I should also tell you that I play Dark Ritual in my list. So I could do this on turn 1

[Lejay]

What's the point of doing this turn 1 ? You used 3 cards to put your opponent on 5 and you still have to reanimate another creature to win.

[Shabbaman]

OK, I must be confused here. I'm gonna break it down step by step. Here's how this plays out with Putrid Imp:

1. You cast Exhume.
2. In response, they exile your, say, Iona from the yard.
3. After they exile her, but still before Exhume resolves, you activate Putrid Imp's ability to discard, say, Inkwell Leviathan.
4. No one else does anything, so Exhume brings your Leviathan back.

Here's Hapless Researcher:

1. You cast Exhume.
2. In response, they exile your Iona.
3. After they exile her, but still before Exhume resolves, you activate Hapless Researcher's ability sacrificing him to draw a card, then discard Inkwell Leviathan.
4. No one else does anything, so Exhume brings your Leviathan back.

The net effect seems identical to me, aside from Hapless Researcher's ability cantripping and leaving you with the same number of cards in hand at the cost of his life, whereas Putrid Imp can be used repeatedly for such shenanigans. What am I overlooking? Is the repeatability the important part?

Like RexFTW says:


PImp can discard the original, and the second though.

Your walkthrough misses a "step 0": how to get the Iona in the yard. Turn 1 PImp, turn 2, discard Iona, Exhume. With Hapless Researcher you go turn 1 Hapless Researcher, turn 2 Entomb/Careful Study, turn 3... I admit that Hapless Researcher is a nice card, and I admit that it's very blue (and useful to pitch to FoW). Don't get greedy when you're looking at the cantrip. There are downsides to running Hapless Researcher: you have no fodder to sacrifice to something like Warren Weirding, there's no fodder that sticks around to block, you can only use the discard ability once. I think this is listed from relevant to less relevant. "Pitches to FoW" might come at the first place, but cantrip is way down the list.

[fdiv_bug]

Your walkthrough misses a "step 0": how to get the Iona in the yard. Turn 1 PImp, turn 2, discard Iona, Exhume. With Hapless Researcher you go turn 1 Hapless Researcher, turn 2 Entomb/Careful Study, turn 3...
Where was the Iona at the beginning of all this? In your hand? If so, you can either discard her by activating Putrid Imp's ability, or discard her after drawing a card by activating Hapless Researcher's ability. If the Iona starts in your hand -- or is the top card of your library, in Hapless Researcher's case, which seems even better if a bit lucksack -- then there is still no difference about what they can do. Turn 1 Island -> Hapless Researcher. Turn 2 sacrifice the Researcher -> draw 1, discard Iona; Swamp -> Exhume. Same thing as with Putrid Imp.

Hapless Researcher could get Stifled which would be a bummer since the discard isn't part of the cost the way Putrid Imp's is, but without Stifle in your opponent's hand then I'm still not understanding why the Putrid Imp is so much better.

[Shabbaman]

Where was the Iona at the beginning of all this? In your hand? If so, you can either discard her by activating Putrid Imp's ability, or discard her after drawing a card by activating Hapless Researcher's ability.

Yes, but after you've used the PImp's ability you can use it again to discard the second fatty. You can't discard a second fatty with Hapless Researcher after you've used it's abilty. This lets you play around Tormod's Crypt, for example.

[fdiv_bug]

Yes, but after you've used the PImp's ability you can use it again to discard the second fatty. You can't discard a second fatty with Hapless Researcher after you've used it's abilty. This lets you play around Tormod's Crypt, for example.

That is true, and is something I mentioned in my longer post (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?8639-%5BDeck%5D-B-U-Reanimator&p=522982&viewfull=1#post522982), above. So it seems to me that's the only real tradeoff between the two -- repeatability versus Force of Will food. I think I'll continue using Hapless Researcher, myself, but that's not to say it's strictly better than Putrid Imp, just strictly different. :smile:

[Clark Kant]

I've been testing out the 11th place - SCG reanimator list quite extensively over the past few days, and felt uncomfortable with two things:

1) Not enough blue spells to pitch to FOW
2) Not enough card draw/selection

What I noticed from playing the deck over and over is that it suffers, as with every combo deck I guess, of variance. More importantly, it only runs 4 brainstorm and 4 careful study as "card draw", and I often found myself holding 2 exhume, a reanimate and no way to put a creature in the graveyard (or vice versa).

Also, and what perhaps bothered me the most, was the lack of blue cards I had available to pitch to FOW. Because the deck only runs 17 lands and not a lot of card draw, I always wanted to use my brainstorms and careful studies to find an extra land (getting to 2 lands was a lot more annoying than I thought it'd be) or just whatever card I was lacking.


Both of these issues are addressed by simplying playing Hapless Researcher in place of Putrid Imp. Now, you have 24 blue spells that can act as FoW fodder.

This is the list I like...

Creatures
4 Hapless Researcher
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Terastodon

Enchantments
3 Animate Dead

Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will

Sorceries
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate

Basic Lands
2 Island
1 Swamp

Lands
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea

It wasn't the number of lands that was the issue but rather the color of mana the lands generate. With so many basics, it wasn't infrequent to end up with hands of two Islands or two Swamp and nothing of the other color. I cut some basics and upped the fetch counts, and added an Urborg to compensate for some of the loss of life, and haven't had any issues with mana since. But if you do have issues with mana, you could always cut an Inkwell Leviathan for the 18th land. I am pleased as punch with Inkwell as the 8th creature though. It, along with the legendary Iona, are the only options that Reanimator has that are immune to StP/PtE (and even to newer removal like Go for the Throat).

[fdiv_bug]

This is what I would play...

...
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
...

Interesting. Any particular reason for that?

[Clark Kant]

Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is awesome. It lets you use fetchlands to produce mana without having to lose life or open yourself up to Stifle.

Once you have a blue source out and an Urborg, there's no good reason for you to sacrifice a fetchland again. This can add anywhere from 2-5 life to your life total any game where you are lucky enough to have an Urborg in your opening hand, with minimal drawback.

If it weren't for the fact that it's legendary, I would play more than one.

[fdiv_bug]

Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is awesome. It lets you use fetchlands to produce mana without having to lose life or open yourself up to Stifle.

Once you have a blue source out and an Urborg, there's no good reason for you to sacrifice a fetchland again. This can add anywhere from 2-5 life to your life total any game where you are lucky enough to have an Urborg in your opening hand, with minimal drawback.

If it weren't for the fact that it's legendary, I would play more than one.

All right, cool. Those were the reasons I suspected, but it's good to have the confirmation and (tested) info. :smile:

[John Rohan]

This is the "B/U Reanimator Thread". Perhaps you should start a B/G Reanimator thread.

Goodpoint!


I've always been a huge fan of B/G reanimator. There was an old thread here, based on Rodgon's original Reanimator deck (the same guy that started this mammoth thread): http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5670-[Deck]-BG-reanimator&highlight=reanimator

In B/G, you can also use Pernicious Deed, which is perfect defense for a deck with a lot of fat creatures.

[jamis]

Hey guys, I recently became interested in building this deck, and was looking for some advice on playing it. For instance, what creatures to grab against which decks, what kind of hands to mulligan for in different matchups, etc.

The list I've been testing is:

2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon
1 Terastodon

4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume

4 Brainstorm
4 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Personal Tutor

4 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
3 Daze

4 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest

Sideboard
4 Show and Tell
4 Echoing Truth
2 Wipe Away
2 Duress
3 Null Rod

I've been using Blazing Archon against Merfolk and Dredge, Iona on white and Sphinx against Zoo (or Archangel if I can only get 1 creature and can get it fast enough), Inkwell against Countertop and Bant Aggro (new horizons, NOBant, UGW Tempo, etc.).

I'm not really sure what I should be using against Goblins, D&T variants, and TES. I'm thinking Archangel for D&T and Sphinx for Goblins. Against TES, I'm thinking Iona on blue if it comes early and on black if it's later in the game. Is this generally right?

[NyxathidHorror]

Hey guys, I recently became interested in building this deck, and was looking for some advice on playing it. For instance, what creatures to grab against which decks, what kind of hands to mulligan for in different matchups, etc.

The list I've been testing is:

2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon
1 Terastodon

4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume

4 Brainstorm
4 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Personal Tutor

4 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
3 Daze

4 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest

Sideboard
4 Show and Tell
4 Echoing Truth
2 Wipe Away
2 Duress
3 Null Rod

I've been using Blazing Archon against Merfolk and Dredge, Iona on white and Sphinx against Zoo (or Archangel if I can only get 1 creature and can get it fast enough), Inkwell against Countertop and Bant Aggro (new horizons, NOBant, UGW Tempo, etc.).

I'm not really sure what I should be using against Goblins, D&T variants, and TES. I'm thinking Archangel for D&T and Sphinx for Goblins. Against TES, I'm thinking Iona on blue if it comes early and on black if it's later in the game. Is this generally right?


This is definitely one of the better builds that anybody has posted here.

You've got the right idea with those matches. Archon hoses merfolk (and much more). Sphinx can simply out-race goblins/smash zoo, and Iona is an absolute bomb against TES (or anything mono colored). Inkwell works well against anything that packs removal/burn. Honestly, it's more about timing in certain situations, than anything else.

Your take on Iona Vs. TES sounds right to me; although somebody with more experience in that department should probably put in their .02 about this. I'm curious as well...

[John Rohan]

This is definitely one of the better builds that anybody has posted here.

You've got the right idea with those matches. Archon hoses merfolk (and much more). Sphinx can simply out-race goblins/smash zoo, and Iona is an absolute bomb against TES (or anything mono colored). Inkwell works well against anything that packs removal/burn. Honestly, it's more about timing in certain situations, than anything else.

Your take on Iona Vs. TES sounds right to me; although somebody with more experience in that department should probably put in their .02 about this. I'm curious as well...

I slightly disagree - Merfolk often packs bounce (like Wipe Away) which will easily get rid of Blazing Archon. I think Iona on Blue is a better choice, possibly Inkwell if your opponent doesn't have many creatures out yet. Blazing Archon is devastating against Elf decks and most Progenitus decks though. I'm uncertain whether Sphinx or Iona is better against Goblins.

[ac3eb]

Hey guys, I recently became interested in building this deck, and was looking for some advice on playing it. For instance, what creatures to grab against which decks, what kind of hands to mulligan for in different matchups, etc.

The list I've been testing is:

2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon
1 Terastodon

4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume

4 Brainstorm
4 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Personal Tutor

4 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
3 Daze

4 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest

Sideboard
4 Show and Tell
4 Echoing Truth
2 Wipe Away
2 Duress
3 Null Rod

I've been using Blazing Archon against Merfolk and Dredge, Iona on white and Sphinx against Zoo (or Archangel if I can only get 1 creature and can get it fast enough), Inkwell against Countertop and Bant Aggro (new horizons, NOBant, UGW Tempo, etc.).

I'm not really sure what I should be using against Goblins, D&T variants, and TES. I'm thinking Archangel for D&T and Sphinx for Goblins. Against TES, I'm thinking Iona on blue if it comes early and on black if it's later in the game. Is this generally right?

I really like this list as well. It's very focused, and when I think of it, I do like it a lot more than the other version packing the 4 PImps. However, is it just me or does your list have 58 cards? I also noticed that you are only running 14 lands, so the obvious change would be +1 island and +1 swamp. That's still only 16 lands though, so I would probably cut either 1 thoughtseize or 1 lim-dul's vault for an extra fetchland. While the deck doesn't need more than 2 lands to function, I've been trying to get reanimator to work for over a week now, and the reason I would end up losing half the time was because I'd have to mull down to 5 because I couldn't find lands, or I'd get stuck on 1 land (as you only run BS as "card draw"). 17 lands is a must I think.

About the sideboard, don't you think 4 Echoing Truth and 2 Wipe Away is overkill? I'm guessing they serve the same purpose in the list, so isn't 6 bounce spells a little too much? I can't see you taking out 6 cards from the maindeck either. I'd probably add a couple of pithing needles perhaps. Aside from that, nice list.

[Heresy]

I believe this is one of the most resilient/fast combo deck right now. Turn 2 wins are so frequent it's ridiculous.

[NyxathidHorror]

I believe this is one of the most resilient/fast combo deck right now. Turn 2 wins are so frequent it's ridiculous.

Agreed. I've had more than a handful of games where I drop a bomb turn 1-2 that goes all the way. This deck is especially good against somebody who isn't expecting it first round. The second round is almost always more difficult, but if you SB correctly (and get your draws/mulligan aggressively), then it's not too much to handle.

[jamis]

I really like this list as well. It's very focused, and when I think of it, I do like it a lot more than the other version packing the 4 PImps. However, is it just me or does your list have 58 cards? I also noticed that you are only running 14 lands, so the obvious change would be +1 island and +1 swamp. That's still only 16 lands though, so I would probably cut either 1 thoughtseize or 1 lim-dul's vault for an extra fetchland. While the deck doesn't need more than 2 lands to function, I've been trying to get reanimator to work for over a week now, and the reason I would end up losing half the time was because I'd have to mull down to 5 because I couldn't find lands, or I'd get stuck on 1 land (as you only run BS as "card draw"). 17 lands is a must I think.

About the sideboard, don't you think 4 Echoing Truth and 2 Wipe Away is overkill? I'm guessing they serve the same purpose in the list, so isn't 6 bounce spells a little too much? I can't see you taking out 6 cards from the maindeck either. I'd probably add a couple of pithing needles perhaps. Aside from that, nice list.

Thanks, the list was largely based off this one (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5563&iddeck=40285). And yeah, I was missing 2 Fetchlands in the list, it should have 16 lands. I'll probably cut the Terastodon from the Maindeck for the 17th land and cut an Echoing Truth in the board for Terastadon.

[pandaman]

To those who were wanting the Reanimator list from the Japanese Eternal Party website, it doesn't seem like a Reanimator list top 8'd at all. The event was won by BG Non-Survival (obviously) Ooze combo, and the rest of the decks were ANT, New Horizons hybrid, ANT again, Junk/The Rock, Supreme Blue, Team America and Zoo. I'm still looking though...

Maybe it was another tournament?

[practical joke]

To those who were wanting the Reanimator list from the Japanese Eternal Party website, it doesn't seem like a Reanimator list top 8'd at all. The event was won by BG Non-Survival (obviously) Ooze combo, and the rest of the decks were ANT, New Horizons hybrid, ANT again, Junk/The Rock, Supreme Blue, Team America and Zoo. I'm still looking though...

Maybe it was another tournament?

Could be that tournament, sometimes ooze-combo is named: ooze-reanimate,since it's using the same engine, but a different engine. (ooze-engine instead of a game-winning fatty)

[jamis]

As someone who plays both decks, I'd still be very interested in seeing a list, if you have it.

[fdiv_bug]

As someone who plays both decks, I'd still be very interested in seeing a list, if you have it.

Yeah, I don't wanna pull the thread off-topic or anything, but this would also intrigue me.

Is there a URL?

[John Rohan]

What do you guys really think about the spell Reanimate these days, vs. Exhume and Animate Dead, or others?

I have gone back and forth on this. The extra speed of a 1cc spell is nice, but I'm tired of drawing it later in the game when I wouldn't have enough life to use it. I thought with cards like Platinum Emperion I would start using it again, but it still doesn't work so well unless I draw it in my opening hand. There's just too much other quick life loss these days.

With Dark Ritual, the 1cc isn't even that much of a speed gain - on turn 1, you can still play swamp, cast DR, then cast Entomb + Exhume/Animate Dead. The only difference is, you don't have 1 mana extra to defend against a Daze spell.

If you keep it because you wouldn't have enough reanimation spells otherwise, then that's not a good reason. There are a lot of replacements - Dance of the Dead, Soul Exchange, Victimize, Recurring Nightmare, Zombify, Dread Return, etc. Most cost more, but sometimes that's a good thing, because a 3 or 4cc spell can survive Counterbalance much more than a 1 or 2 cc spell.

What do you all think?

[comeback]

2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Empyrial Archangel
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon
1 Terastodon

4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume

4 Brainstorm
4 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Personal Tutor

4 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
3 Daze

4 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest

Sideboard
4 Show and Tell
4 Echoing Truth
2 Wipe Away
2 Duress
3 Null Rod



This is really quite similar to my list I played some month ago and I did a 70 person top2 when Re-animator was not an expected deck. My list and some observations:

4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
1 Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dryad Arbor --> really good! Your last defender or the target of any Innocent Blood or Edict!
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Entomb
3 Thoughtseize
3 Lim-Dûl's Vault
2 Personal Tutor
1 Maelstrom Pulse --> multi target removal, also damnation could be fine!
3 Careful Study
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Show and Tell --> B plan maindeck!
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Terastodon
1 Blazing Archon

SIDE
2 Pithing Needle
2 Null Rod
2 Krosan Grip
1 Reverent Silence
3 Spell Pierce
3 Extirpate
1 Perish
1 Fatties or Metaslotl

[pandaman]

As someone who plays both decks, I'd still be very interested in seeing a list, if you have it.

Linky (http://bigmagic.blog116.fc2.com/blog-entry-37.html)

Names of cards are in both English and Japanese, which is helpful.

And I apologise, my initial post was in error: It's BU Ooze Combo, not BG.

Back on topic, I've been playing with BUR Welder Reanimator, and have been using the following manabase:

4 Vault of Whispers
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 City of Brass
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Underground River
3 Lotus Petal

and have been having awful trouble with getting the colours I need. I've also been having awful trouble with Brainstorm with that manabase as you never have a fetchland to get rid of the horrible stuff at the top of your library. I haven't tested the fetchland/dual land manabase because I don't own Underground Seas yet, but can anyone shed some light, those who've tested it, whether it really is worth going a full artifact land manabase to abuse Sundering Titan or whether the drawbacks just outweigh the benefits? I really love the idea, but it doesn't seem to be working for me...

[DrHealex]

without the shuffle effects of the fetches i wouldnt even bother running the brainstorms, just try replacing them with preordains or intuitions or something similar... even that one card for UU that you draw 3 discard 3

Ive seen welder reanimator decks that use the artifact base along with those U/B (slicks), R/B lands that are in type 2 to take advantage of the sundering titan... similar to the list John Cuvelier placed with in boston.

[pandaman]

UU draw 3 discard 3? Which card? I can't recall it.

[jamis]

Ideas Unbound Unfortunately you discard at EOT, or else it'd be great.

[jcsy]

Careful study works at 1 mana, draw 2 discard 2

love that card

[DrHealex]

Well, careful study is of course firmly cemented into everyones list, Ideas unbound is "ok" if you play a welder list since the gobo is an instant renaimate. One, day frantic search will be unbanned and be in everyones list. Perhaps some sort of wierd dredge hybrid would make for an interesting test deck.

[lorddotm]

Well, careful study is of course firmly cemented into everyones list, Ideas unbound is "ok" if you play a welder list since the gobo is an instant renaimate. One, day frantic search will be unbanned and be in everyones list. Perhaps some sort of wierd dredge hybrid would make for an interesting test deck.

You realise that Frantic Search requires 3 lands in play right?

[Clark Kant]

Careful study works at 1 mana, draw 2 discard 2

love that card

Yes, what this deck most desperately needs is a Careful Study 5-8. Preferably one that doesn't require 3 lands like Frantic Search does.

We should just mass email rosewater and other WoTC staff till they print one.

They printed what 800 Brainstorm wannabes. Surely, they can print one card akin to Careful Study. I would even settle for drawing two cards and discarding three.

[ThomasDowd]

You realise that Frantic Search requires 3 lands in play right?

You guys do realize the card is banned, right?

so why is it even in the discussion?

MAN GUYS WHY DON:LT WE PLAY ANCESTRAL RECALL THAT CARD IS GOOD RIGHT!!?!?!?!

also it's free if you have 3 mana, you don;t need 3 lands in play.

[menace13]

You guys do realize the card is banned, right?

so why is it even in the discussion?

MAN GUYS WHY DON:LT WE PLAY ANCESTRAL RECALL THAT CARD IS GOOD RIGHT!!?!?!?!

also it's free if you have 3 mana, you don;t need 3 lands in play.
Pretty sure he know the B&R list. And if you have less than 3 lands in play it costs you 1 or 2 mana.

[alphastryk]

The other careful study you are looking for is called hapless researcher. He also improves you Goblins & Dredge matchups significantly.

My current list:

4 entomb
4 exhume
4 reanimate
2 animate dead
2 lim-dul's vault
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 daze
3 thoughtseize
1 careful study

4 hapless researcher
2 iona, shield of emeria
2 inkwell leviathan
1 sphinx of the steel wind
1 blazing archon
1 terrastodon
1 massacre wurm

4 polluted delta
3 verdant catacombs
3 misty rainforest
3 underground sea
2 swamp
1 island

I've been having a lot of problems with Wbg Death & taxes lately, not sure how to improve that matchup...

Maybe I need to run Empyrial Archangel again? In which slot, if so? I would guess the terrastodon slot, as that has been the weakest lately.

[justindz]

Wrote a long post and my DSL ate it, sadly. I played in the Legacy Challenge at SCG DC yesterday and went 3-1 (yay, prizes!) with UB Reanimator. This was my third Legacy event, I think. The night before, I was going to play ANT, but I read a lot of Ari's posts and my lack of Grim Tutors was starting to gnaw at me. So I made the audible. I blogged the whole thing at http://justindz.tumblr.com if you want to read the list, report, thoughts, etc. But, since that's not the point of this forum, here are some highlights:

* Hapless Researcher is the real deal. I agree with everyone here who has it in their list instead of Putrid Imp.
* I was also underwhelmed by Terastodon. I may move him to the board.
* Can someone explain the matches in which I want Sphinx of the Steel Wind? I couldn't figure that out. I boarded it in once because it seemed better than something else, but if I had a better set of critters and SB, I probably wouldn't have wanted him either. I'm sure there's a good reason, but I just didn't find it yet.
* I needed to have one Blazing Archon, giving up a Stormtide. But, having Stormtide was excellent. It clocks very fast (usually 3 swings) and against plenty of decks is a total lockout. I may end up with a split main and another Stormtide in the SB, depending on what I decide to do with my SB.
* Pithing Needle in the SB wasn't that great. I am going to try to acquire Null Rods. I'm not smart/good/experienced enough yet to pick the right GY hoser against each archetype and the Rod stops Crypt, Relic and Spellbomb.

I had a chance to talk to Ari about the deck before playing, which was a good confidence boost. I feel like it has a lot of range and maybe there's some next level coming up, but that for now it can just win a lot of games fast and in demoralizing ways. That works for me. He fished hands while we were talking and basically always had an amazing hand. The deck feels unfair most of the time.

[into_play]

Greetings! I've been playing Reanimator for ages and since the unbanning of Entomb, I've been enjoying the resurrection of monsters from the grave in local Legacy tournaments. At a recent 17 person tournament, I ended up splitting first place playing with the following list:

4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Island

4 Iona, Shied of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Terastodon

4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Show and Tell
3 Thoughtseize

Sideboard:
3 Nature's Claim
3 Krosan Grip
3 Spell Pierce
3 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
3 Blazing Archon

First, let me explain some of the card choices that may not seem so obvious. The four copies of Show and Tell take the spots of the now departed Mystical Tutor. While several builds replaced the tutor with cards such as Ponder, Preordain, Lim-Dul's Vault and Personal Tutor to try and make up for the loss of Mystical's deck manipulation, this version instead replaces it with a pure business card, Show and Tell. Rather than trying to emulate Mystical Tutor with a card that will be inferior in effect, this deck hopes to make use of the deck's redundancy and have more options for getting its fatties onto the battlefied. Relying solely on Entomb as an enabler is no longer a good idea without Mystical Tutor as the 5th-8th copies; Careful Study drawing into and discarding fatties needs to be a dependable plan B as well. In a game where you have yet to see an Entomb/Careful Study and are sitting with a useless Reanimate and Exhume, a Show and Tell in hand ensures that a giant creature can also be useful in the hand. This is especially relevant and useful in games 2 and 3, where you can use it to avoid graveyard hate completely. Show and Tell's casting cost of 3 gives Reanimator a way around trouble cards such as Chalice of the Void and Counterbalance. And as a blue card, Force of Will can be further supported in the deck (yes, I know being FoW fodder is never a great argument itself, but Show and Tell never seems dead in hand because of this).

Another glaring aspect of the deck is the inclusion of four Iona maindeck. I find Iona to be the first choice of creature in so many matchups, as shutting down an entire color from an opponent is arguably the most debilitating ability ever to be stuck on a creature so large. A full playset of them helps to maximize the chances that your big creature can be the interaction-killing angel, via the deck's digging abilities. Post-boarding, you will usually want to choose two from the set of Iona, Sphinx and Archon and maximize both of them in the deck. Nearly every matchup is weak to at least one of those three, and adding redundancy of the most powerful creature for the given situation helps to allow you to Show and Tell your best threat more reliably.

Now, on to a brief report of the tournament!

Round 1: ANT

Game 1:
He plays first, lays down a Flooded Strand and says go. On my turn, I Thoughtseize, he fetches for an Underground Sea and responds with a Brainstorm. In his hand I see Polluted Delta, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Lion's Eye Diamond and Infernal Tutor. I make him discard the tutor. Next turn, it turns out he hid another Infernal Tutor with Brainstorm, so I see a bunch of rituals, a tutor, an Ill-Gotten Gains and finally a Tendrils. On to game 2.

Game 2: -3 Thoughtseize, -1 Blazing Archon, -1 Inkwell Leviathan, -1 Terastodon, +3 Spell Pierce, +3 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
I manage to get down an Iona second turn naming black. He digs with a series of Ponders and Brainstorms and eventually finds a Chain of Vapor to bounce Iona. However, I have a Careful Study and Exhume in hand to quickly get it back in play and win the game.

Game 3:
Nothing too exciting here, I manage another early Iona again but this time he is unable to find a bounce spell.

1-0-0

Round 2: Aluren

Game 1:
I have no clue that his deck is Aluren when I sit down to play him. He plays first and I see him play a Taiga and a Birds of Paradise. On his second turn, he fetches for a Tropical Island and plays a Coiling Oracle. At this point I am completely baffled at what he is playing, and even more unsure about what color to name with the Iona that I just Entombed. I try to Reanimate but he counters it. When an Exhume later manages to put Iona into play, I reluctantly choose blue, since I see no signs of white and thus no Swords to Plowshares/Path to Exile. At last, he plays an Aluren and everything seems to make sense. Unfortunately, he now gets to play a set of free Imperial Recruiters, which recruit a Bone Shredder to destroy Iona and then ultimately kill me with a Cavern Harpy combo.

Game 2: -3 Thoughtseize, -1 Blazing Archon, +3 Nature's Claim, +1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
This game was even worse for me, as he got his combo off faster and I was unable to get a fatty into play. I am still unsure of what color to name against the deck at this point.

1-1-0

Round 3: Burn

Game 1:
He is clearly distressed that he is facing a possible second turn Iona that will neutralize his entire deck. He is right, as a quick Iona prevents him from playing spells.

Game 2: -3 Thoughtseize, -1 Blazing Archon, -1 Inkwell Leviathan, -1 Terastodon, +3 Nature's Claim, +3 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
This game, he is able to throw more at me in the early game, including a Keldon Marauders that ends up doing their full five damage to me. By the time I find a reanimation spell, I only have 8 life and it's a Reanimate.

Game 3:
This game wasn't as quick as the first one, but I did manage to Show and Tell an Iona into play on my third turn to seal the deal.

2-1-0

Round 4: Mono Red Goblins
This is the final round of Swiss before cutting to the Top 8, so my opponent and I intentionally draw so as to both make the cut. We play our games out anyway.

Game 1:
I know that his goblin deck contains only red, so without the fear of Warren Weirding or Swords/Path, my life as a Reanimator player is so much easier. An Entomb tutors for a sphinx that just hoses the goblins.

Game 2: -3 Thoughtseize, -4 Iona, Shield of Emeria, -1 Inkwell Leviathan, -1 Terastodon, +3 Nature's Claim, +3 Sphinx of the Steel Wind, +3 Blazing Archon
I decide to remove all of the Ionas, since Aether Vial and Lackey can get around her. Blazing Archons seem to create a much more dire situation for the goblins than the angels. However, Sphinx of the Steel Wind is the undisputed choice in this matchup. Once again, a Sphinx goes all the way. He does get one huge strike in with about six goblins, including two Goblin Piledrivers, but I am already at 36 life and still have my Sphinx to block and swing for lethal the following turn.

2-1-1

Top 8: Aluren
I was hoping not to get matched up against this deck again, as it was my only loss so far in the tournament. Oh well, what can you do.

Game 1:
Early in the game, we both trade counterspells, with him countering a couple reanimation spells and me countering his Aluren. I do manage to Exhume in an Iona though. After much deliberation, I decided to name red as the forbidden color. I figure that he is probably not running too many specific answers, such as Bone Shredder and Man-o'-War, so cutting off his tutor engine of Imperial Recruiters is probably my best bet in holding off his hate, as well as hindering his search for his combo pieces. It turns out that red was a great choice; he is unable to do much before Iona goes all the way.

Game 2: -3 Thoughtseize, -1 Blazing Archon, +3 Nature's Claim, +1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
This was another nail-biting game, with both of us very fearful of the other putting together a deadly combination of spells. I get Iona into play and once again name red. On his final turn before lethal damage, he plays a Brainstorm and two Ponders, searching for an answer and keeping up the anticipation of a possible answer. However, he is unable to find anything and I win the second game. If you ever play Reanimator against an Aluren deck, I would recommend declaring red as your Iona color, as it really slows down the most consistent searching aspect of the deck.

Top 4: Dredge

Game 1:
This game, as we both know, is essentially a coin toss. Whoever gets the better hand and thus able to act faster will win. He is able to change most of his library into his graveyard before I am able to land an Iona or Archon and zombie tokens overwhelm me.

Game 2: -3 Thoughtseize, -1 Spinx of the Steel Wind, -1 Inkwell Leviathan, -1 Terastodon, +3 Spell Pierce, +3 Blazing Archon
Before I start my turn, my opponent lays down a Leyline of the Void from his hand. I secretly panic a bit about this, as I never anticipated that leyline would be his hate of choice. He basically needed the card in his opening hand, since it's highly unlikely that a Dredge deck would be able to afford the four mana and hardcast it in a timely manner. My Thoughtseizes were replaced by Spell Pierces instead of the usual Nature's Claims, so I had no way of getting rid of the leyline in a must-win game. Luckily, I have four Show and Tells maindecked, so I have an alternate way to get something in play. I manage to Show and Tell a Blazing Archon onto the battlefield, but shortly thereafter he actually manages to get three lands in play and cast a Stinkweed Imp, making me unable to attack him. We play draw-go for several turns, with me hoping to Show and Tell more big creatures into play and hopefully alpha strike him somewhere far away in the future. He notes to me that his only answer to an unattacking Blazing Archon is a single Chain of Vapor that has already been dredged into his graveyard, and it is clear that he will deck himself about 30 turns before I do. Thus, he concedes and we go to game 3.

Game 3: -3 Spell Pierce, +3 Nature's Claim
I should not have won this final game of the round, as my opponent made a fatal mistake. However, it was a thorough, grinding game, one that you rarely witness playing a Reanimator deck. Once again, he manages to get a Leyline of the Void in his opening hand. He attempts to cast a Tireless Tribe first turn, but I had a Force of Will in hand to deny him a discard outlet for another two turns (until he ended a turn with 8 cards and had to discard a dredger). There wasn't very much action on my side of the board either. I spend the first couple of turns digging for a Nature's Claim to remove the enchantment, throwing away some Exhumes and a land along the way. Pitching a land to Careful Study turned out to be a horrible move on my part, as I eventually became determined to simply Show and Tell a Blazing Archon already in my hand. I spent most likely eight or nine turns stuck on two lands, never seeing a Nature's Claim or that vital third land to play Show and Tell, now numbering two in my hand. Thankfully, the Dredge player had an awful start himself. He was slowly dredging a little bit, but he had no discard outlet to throw the Trolls and Imps back into his grave. At one point I had three Show and Tells in hand when he played Cabal Therapy, naming Show and Tell. I now had only a single Show and Tell somewhere in the library, and I know his deck will start gaining momentum much faster than mine. This game was definitely his to lose. He was soon able to start going on a roll, generating some zombie tokens and milling his own deck at a faster rate. He eventually has a turn where he begins to go off, using a Dread Return on a Sphinx of Lost Truths to keep his engine going. I suppose he was worried about me finding the last Show and Tell and putting an Archon into play, since I noticed that his Chain of Vapor had already been dredged. During this turn, he manages to accumulate about 20 zombie tokens, and it was clear that he was digging for his Flame-Kin Zealot to finish me off this turn. He continues to overturn his library, becoming more annoyed each time he dredges and doesn't find the zealot. He continues his madness until his entire library has been milled; Flame-Kin Zealot turns out to be the very last card in the deck! He goes to play a Dread Return to give his zombie army haste, but he then realizes that he has already played all copies of Dread Return. Therefore, his creatures do not get haste, he is unable to finish me that turn, and he loses the following turn, being unable to draw from his library. What an unexpected win!

Finals: ANT
At this point, my opponent asks if I would want to split the first and second place prizes. The winner of the tournament would go home with an Underground Sea, and the second place prize was $15 in store credit, quite the drop off in prize value. I also already have a full set of Seas and he really wants the card, so I agree to let him take the card, I take the credit, and he pays me the difference in cash. We play out our games anyway. This is a different ANT player than the one I faced in the first round of Swiss, by the way.

Game 1:
He doesn't manage to do much other than a couple of Ponders. An early Iona naming black makes this game largely uneventful and I win.

Game 2: -3 Thoughtseize, -1 Blazing Archon, -1 Inkwell Leviathan, -1 Terastodon, +3 Spell Pierce, +3 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
This game was more of the same; he couldn't get anything going. Iona came into play naming black once again, and the following turn a Sphinx of the Steel Wind helped to end the game quicker.

In retrospect, I should have played out the final round for the Underground Sea, since I didn't end up having too much trouble in the final round. But of course, if I hadn't agreed to split, then with my luck I probably would have ended up losing. I used the store credit to buy an Umezawa's Jitte for one of my EDH decks, and ended up with some cash from my opponent that wanted the Underground Sea.

In conclusion, the tournament was a blast and I met a lot of new people playing some very serious decks. The two Aluren matchups and the Dredge Top 4 will be long-lasting memories. As for my decklist, I am very satisfied with almost everything, especially the sideboard. The one thing I may consider changing is the Terastodon, since I didn't put him into play once over the course of the tournament and couldn't really think of any situations where he would be golden. There was a Countertop player there that I luckily did not have to face, and he was running Peacekeeper in his sideboard. I realized that had I played him, I would have no way to deal with the Peacekeeper, or any creature for that matter. The best I can think of would be to use Terastodon to blow up his white providing lands, but that plan is useless if they have one Noble Hierarch in play. At best, the opponent will have at least one 3/3 Elephant token that could really be a liability for a deck that eats half of its life with Reanimate. I have heard of people running Darkblast for the Peacekeeper, but that could be hard to pull off if they are also running Counterbalance or graveyard hate. Right now I am considering swapping the Terastodon for Tidespout Tyrant as my permanent removal option. The deck is chock full of one mana spells, making it the perfect type of deck to abuse the djinn. It is also not half bad when you draw into it with a Careful Study, assuming it gets into play early enough in the game to really mess with their board. Being blue and having flying also give it a couple of brownie points.

Although most of the online community does not consider Reanimator to be a DTB or a tier 1 deck, I feel that it is still very viable in today's metagame. It has the capability of placing the opponent in a devastating game state as early as the second turn, and it is backed up by the FoW/Daze suite, the greatest form of disruption in Legacy. To all Reanimator players, don't be afraid to stop searching for a Mystical Tutor replacement; consider putting in a full set of Show and Tell and making your threats have another angle of attack! You will find yourself having greater versatility and an ability to handle situations that were once much more difficult than before.

[arebennian]

Although most of the online community does not consider Reanimator to be a DTB or a tier 1 deck, I feel that it is still very viable in today's metagame. It has the capability of placing the opponent in a devastating game state as early as the second turn, and it is backed up by the FoW/Daze suite, the greatest form of disruption in Legacy. To all Reanimator players, don't be afraid to stop searching for a Mystical Tutor replacement; consider putting in a full set of Show and Tell and making your threats have another angle of attack! You will find yourself having greater versatility and an ability to handle situations that were once much more difficult than before.

Thanks for the indepth report. If you look back through the thread, someone posted a list that hit the Top8 at BazaarofMoxen in France. He had SnT main and 4 EmRule and 4 Stronghold Gambit SB for certain match-ups.

As an aside, has anyone tested Enlightened Tutor?
Something like this...

MAIN
1 Animate dead
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of will
4 Daze
1 Thoughtseize
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Entomb
4 Careful study
1 Zombie Infestation

2 Iona, shield of emeria
2 Inkwell leviathan
1 Sphinx of the steel wind
1 Platnium Emperion
1 Terrastodon

LANDS = 18
4 Polluted delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Marsh Flats
3 Underground Sea
2 Scrubland
1 swamp
1 Island
1 Plains


SIDEBOARD (Ideas)
3 Seal of Removal
3 Serenity
3 Show and Tell
3 Thoughtsieze
1 Darkblast
1 Brightsteel Colossus
1 Porphyry Nodes
1 Anvil of Bogardan
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Aura of Silence

[John Rohan]

Thanks for the indepth report. If you look back through the thread, someone posted a list that hit the Top8 at BazaarofMoxen in France. He had SnT main and 4 EmRule and 4 Stronghold Gambit SB for certain match-ups.

As an aside, has anyone tested Enlightened Tutor?
Something like this...



I posted a similar deck in this thread awhile back:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?8639-[Deck]-B-U-Reanimator&p=455971&highlight=#post455971

It was an early version, but it worked great. It was equal parts B&W. You might consider at least one artifact land - so you can tutor for it if you have to. Devout Witness has good synergy with reanimator, but it might be a little slow. Maybe better in sideboard.

[David-]

Here's my list:

// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [TSP] Swamp (2)
2 [MI] Island (3)
4 [R] Underground Sea

// Creatures
1 [RAV] Blazing Archon
2 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 [ARB] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 [SOM] Liege of the Tangle
1 [CFX] Inkwell Leviathan

// Spells
1 [US] Show and Tell
3 [WWK] Dispel
4 [TE] Reanimate
4 [US] Exhume
4 [OD] Entomb
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Careful Study
4 [AL] Lim-Dul's Vault
4 [TE] Lotus Petal

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [US] Show and Tell
SB: 1 [WWK] Dispel
SB: 1 [WWK] Admonition Angel
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 [6E] Perish
SB: 4 [PLC] Extirpate

- I tested Lotus Petal vs. Chrome Mox and found that there weren't many cards that I could comfortably pitch to Chrome Mox to get a turn 1 Exhume/Reanimate combo
I'm not sure about Liege of the Tangle but I can't think of a better bomb to replace it with mainboard, perhaps Terastodon?
Dispel is awesome and, in my opinion, underplayed.. it just wins counter wars, as well as protecting your creatures from StP once they hit the board

[John Rohan]

I'm not sure about Liege of the Tangle but I can't think of a better bomb to replace it with mainboard, perhaps Terastodon?


Liege of the Tangle is interesting, I may experiment with that. It's sort of a quicker version of Godsire. But I wonder if it's just "win more"? It doesn't help you control what your opponent is doing. Also, it could bite you in the ass - if you get hit with Nev's Disk, WoG, or Damnation, you lose all your lands too.

[justindz]

I used Platinum Emperion in that slot, which served me pretty well (albeit in a low sample set of matches). It's big and plenty of decks can't kill you unless they can get it out of there. You might not Entomb for it in some matches, but I think there are situations where you'd rather run into that than Liege of the Tangle on a random hand/draw (e.g., game 1 against ANT or maybe burn or whatever).

That might be worth considering. Stormtide Leviathan is another option. Shuts down a lot of decks while making itself un-blockable and kills in 3 swings even with Animate Dead taking it to 7 power. If you are facing Goblins and are able to delay Weirding or they don't have a Matron, for example, this is better than some of your other options because it can't be chumped to stall or reduce the damage against trample. It just gets in there.

Just some ideas if you're on the hunt for a replacement at least for testing purposes.

[John Rohan]

I used Platinum Emperion in that slot, which served me pretty well (albeit in a low sample set of matches). It's big and plenty of decks can't kill you unless they can get it out of there.

An alternate for that slot is Hellkite Overlord. I like it a lot - it's vulnerable to removal, but it swings for 8 damage immediately, winning you the game that turn in many cases.

[into_play]

I've been having a lot of problems with Wbg Death & taxes lately, not sure how to improve that matchup...

Maybe I need to run Empyrial Archangel again? In which slot, if so? I would guess the terrastodon slot, as that has been the weakest lately.

I don't know how Wbg Death and Taxes plays, but I would recommend against Empyrial Archangel. While the importance of shroud cannot be overstated, the angel's 8 toughness is just too little when you need it for defense. If they are running Goyf or Jitte, your angel will probably be an expensive fog at best, since dealing 8 damage in a single turn is really not very difficult for so many decks. When I used to use Empyrial Archangel, I always wished that she had first strike, to at least neutralize the damage of one attacker. For games where I needed some way to stall damage, I always felt better about going for a Blazing Archon and hoping that they wouldn't have the removal for it.



* Can someone explain the matches in which I want Sphinx of the Steel Wind? I couldn't figure that out. I boarded it in once because it seemed better than something else, but if I had a better set of critters and SB, I probably wouldn't have wanted him either. I'm sure there's a good reason, but I just didn't find it yet.


I find that Sphinx of the Steel Wind is the best creature choice against Zoo. If you use a Reanimate to bring back an Iona against Zoo, then you will be at a low enough life total that just a couple of burns and a Nacatyl swing will finish you, making red seem like the best color to choose. But then your Iona is vulnerable to Path. When you're going to be at such a low life total and vulnerable to Path anyway, the Sphinx takes the cake, since it will beat face, defend against creatures and boost your life total. These are all amazing qualities that you want against Zoo. There will be a chance that they will Path or Swords it, but you pretty much always need to take a leap of faith against Zoo.

The Sphinx is also a house against most aggro decks in general, especially Goblins and sometimes even Merfolk. I always Entomb for it against Goblins, and against Merfolk, it's a decent choice if they are already ahead in creatures. If they don't have enough fish out already, then I will sometimes go for an early Inkwell Leviathan or Iona, but the lifegain of the Sphinx makes them work a lot harder to outrace you. Don't be discouraged by the sphinx because it doesn't have such a game-altering ability as Iona or Blazing Archon; the vigilance and lifelink on a large body wins games on its own in the race to deal 20 damage.


Thanks for the indepth report. If you look back through the thread, someone posted a list that hit the Top8 at BazaarofMoxen in France. He had SnT main and 4 EmRule and 4 Stronghold Gambit SB for certain match-ups.

As an aside, has anyone tested Enlightened Tutor?
Something like this...


After seeing the French decklist, I'm surprised to how closely his maindeck and mine matched. Other than running red instead of green and a full set of Sphinx instead of Iona, the quantities of each card were basically the same. Does he use the Stronghold Gambits and Emrakuls against combo decks only? And what does he sideboard out to fit in 8 additional cards? It seems kind of cool being able to transform the deck into more of a Sneak and Tell deck post boarding, but I honestly prefer the green splash to deal with artifact/enchantment hate.

As for the use of Enlightened Tutor, I have not tested it but I see several problems with it. First, the tutor gives you no way to set up a second turn reanimation like Mystical Tutor did. You are able to grab either a reanimation spell (Animate Dead) or a discard outlet (Zombie Infestation), but with each of those costing two mana, and the tutor being used first turn, you will have to wait for the third turn to put the creature into play. Show and Tell seems like a better turn three option. Also, the colored mana requirements in Reanimator are so tight during the first two turns that you really need the possibility to have any combination of three blue and/or black mana. I think needing a third color early in the game will compromise your ability to pull off turn two reanimations when they actually are possible. Again, I have never tested Enlightened Tutor, and it could be used to grab one of the artifact creatures, but I really don't think it adds enough usefulness to the deck.

[arebennian]

After seeing the French decklist, I'm surprised to how closely his maindeck and mine matched. Other than running red instead of green and a full set of Sphinx instead of Iona, the quantities of each card were basically the same. Does he use the Stronghold Gambits and Emrakuls against combo decks only? And what does he sideboard out to fit in 8 additional cards? It seems kind of cool being able to transform the deck into more of a Sneak and Tell deck post boarding, but I honestly prefer the green splash to deal with artifact/enchantment hate.
Creatureless and creature light decks, so I imagine combo, control and ***** variants. As for boarding, I imagine that he totally removed the reanimation package against some decks creatureless/light decks and added the fat+Gambits.
Against decks with more than 10 creatures? Not sure what he would do.




As for the use of Enlightened Tutor, I have not tested it but I see several problems with it. First, the tutor gives you no way to set up a second turn reanimation like Mystical Tutor did. You are able to grab either a reanimation spell (Animate Dead) or a discard outlet (Zombie Infestation), but with each of those costing two mana, and the tutor being used first turn, you will have to wait for the third turn to put the creature into play. Show and Tell seems like a better turn three option. Also, the colored mana requirements in Reanimator are so tight during the first two turns that you really need the possibility to have any combination of three blue and/or black mana. I think needing a third color early in the game will compromise your ability to pull off turn two reanimations when they actually are possible. Again, I have never tested Enlightened Tutor, and it could be used to grab one of the artifact creatures, but I really don't think it adds enough usefulness to the deck.
I ran 10 test games against merfolk on the draw. The mana problem did come up once or twice, but it didn't affect me too badly. I think one game I was probably going to lose anyway, one game it lost me the game, the other I ended up winning.
What was disappointing was that I don't think that Enlightened Tutor won me a game at any stage, but I did find that one of my banes against Merfolk (Cursecatches) were left scratching their heads against the Enchantments of Animate Dead and Zombie Infestation.
While it is true that these are not any quicker than Show and Tell (equal turn three reanimations), the package does have a couple of advantages over Show and Tell:
1) Allows you to play around Daze effects easier that trying to cast a CMC 3 spell.
2) Zombie infestation helps provide chump blockers
3) Enlightened Tutor helps with a possible Show and Tell SB plan, as well as other SB options
4) Show and Tell doesn't relate well with the plan of binning Fat. 'Do I careful Study or do I SnT?'

I'm going to test a little more.

[justindz]

I always Entomb for it against Goblins, and against Merfolk, it's a decent choice if they are already ahead in creatures. If they don't have enough fish out already, then I will sometimes go for an early Inkwell Leviathan or Iona, but the lifegain of the Sphinx makes them work a lot harder to outrace you. Don't be discouraged by the sphinx because it doesn't have such a game-altering ability as Iona or Blazing Archon; the vigilance and lifelink on a large body wins games on its own in the race to deal 20 damage.

I run Platinum Emperion, so I think it might change my thinking. Here are the RB Goblins situations:

- I lead with Platinum Emperion (or Stormtide Leviathan or Blazing Archon).
- They have/get and resolve Warren Weirding (usually via Goblin Matron) through my counters.
- I lose my creature.
- Otherwise, I put the game away in 3-4 turns.

- I lead with Sphinx of the Steel Wind.
- They have/get and resolve Warren Weirding...
- I lose my creature.
- Otherwise, I put the game away in 3-4 turns.

You can gain some life and buy time with Sphinx to reanimate something else, but there's not *that* much difference in practice. They have an out or they lose and, statistically, they lose because they have to play their out fast and you have Daze or Force of Will (or both). If you mostly play against mono-red Goblins, then they probably use Stingscourger over Weirding. In that case, Sphinx makes sense because it dodges those outs entirely. However, I haven't played against a Goblins other than RB in a long time. That's acceptable risk for me.

Against Zoo, unless you safely Iona White first, I think Sphinx is definitely the opener. Make them have Path or make them dead. I totally agree here.

With my build and meta, it feels like I can safely SB the Sphinx, at least, but I wouldn't cut it from the 75. Thanks for the mental exercise :-)

//

Regarding X and Taxes, here's my thinking (wrote this up last night in blog, so it's fresh):

- They run usually run upwards of three Karakas, so don't lead with Iona.
- If they don't have much board presence, go for Inkwell to avoid Swords to Plowshares and Mangara.
- If you are in danger on life totals, Stormtide Leviathan may be your best bet. If they Swords it, you get a good chunk of life back, probably buying a turn or two. If they don't have an answer, you hold the ground game and put them on a fast clock. Emperion can be chumped and is vulnerable to Pridemage and Grip.
- Situationally, Terastodon might be the right option to blow up AEther Vial, white mana sources and or hit one of your lands for a blocker to buy time and stall the cursed Mangara trickery.

Not all of them run the Mangara package, but I suspect that it wouldn't change your plan as it's the same as playing around Swords to Plowshares. Maybe it values Inkwell a bit higher if they run that package, just because everything else is twice as likely to die. But this one isn't as straightforward as RB Goblins, obviously. If it becomes a fairly large % of the meta, as far as Legacy goes, maybe it argues for the return of Akroma, Angel of Fury. A likely 3-4 turn clock, pro-Mangara/Swords and better evasion than Inkwell when there's no Island to walk through. Just a thought.

//

Another question. I had 4x Pithing Needle SB, but only in a few cases do I correctly anticipate which of the three artifact hosers I will face. What do you all think about just running Null Rod? It also screws over MUD and does some random things like protect Animate Dead from Pridemage and Engineered Explosives--not key reasons, but interesting to note. Instead of figuring out what hate they have in game 2 where you haven't seen their board-ins yet, you just name everything :-)

[arebennian]

What do you all think about just running Null Rod? It also screws over MUD and does some random things like protect Animate Dead from Pridemage and Engineered Explosives--not key reasons, but interesting to note. Instead of figuring out what hate they have in game 2 where you haven't seen their board-ins yet, you just name everything :-)

It does what to pridemage?
And what about enchantment graveyard hate? Leyline?

[justindz]

Null Rod does the same thing to Leyline as Pithing Needle. Nothing.

I'm not sure I would bring Needle in against Zoo, honestly, just to hit Pridemage. That only stops Platinum Emperion and/or Animate Dead, so that's a bit narrow it seems. I meant using Null Rod to hit Crypt, Relic and Spellbomb all at once, rather than boarding in Needle, hitting one and getting nailed by the other. Or, a similar situation.

Chain of Vapor is for Leyline. I wasn't suggesting removing Chain of Vapor for Null Rod and have 4x Null Rod and 4x Pithing Needle. That would be... um... special.

[fdiv_bug]

Personally, I've always been fond of the green splash for Nature's Claim out of the board. Stops all the major grave hate except Yixlid Jailer, which we don't care about at all, and Faerie Macabre. The green splash also allows me to run a Dryad Arbor in the side to deal with edict effects. I also ran Null Rod up in Washington DC this past weekend, but that was mostly because I saw tons of Affinity and Vial-based aggro running around and just didn't feel like dealing with them. :tongue:

[John Rohan]

the package does have a couple of advantages over Show and Tell:
1) Allows you to play around Daze effects easier that trying to cast a CMC 3 spell.

Yes, but on the other hand, a 3cc spell is less likely to be stopped by Counterbalance.

[justindz]

Forgive the nub question, but how bad is the Counterbalance match in practice? I played about 8 games against my friend who was running Drew Levin's Bant NOPro Counterbalance and I took about 7/8 games. Daze + Force and being really fast, if I remember correctly. Maybe that is the easy version. RUG doesn't seem much worse, although I think CounterTop is pretty tough due to Ensnaring Bridge.

[John Rohan]

Forgive the nub question, but how bad is the Counterbalance match in practice? I played about 8 games against my friend who was running Drew Levin's Bant NOPro Counterbalance and I took about 7/8 games. Daze + Force and being really fast, if I remember correctly. Maybe that is the easy version. RUG doesn't seem much worse, although I think CounterTop is pretty tough due to Ensnaring Bridge.

In my own experience, once an opponent gets the CB and Sensei's Diving Top on the table, it is VERY hard to get around it - if the opponent is an experienced player and is playing it properly.

[RexFTW]

In my experience game 1 is easy but game 2-3 are near unwinnable. Game 1 they have a lot of dead cards against you (ie firespout) but game 2 they have a LOT of scarry things in the board depending on the build.

Your goal should be to get an Inkwell Leviathan out on turn 2-3. Try and save your entomb for when they are tapped out if you play daze.

Once CB/Top is assembled and they have mana to work it, the game is unwinnable for you. You must stop it or get there faster.

Null rod is at its best here as it stops Top and Crypt.

[menace13]

Ooze reanimator won the Eternal Party event.
http://bigmagic.blog116.fc2.com/blog-entry-37.html
What do you guys think about the list? I don't like the 14 lands and lack of FoWs(call me biased, but FoW is a crutch of mine and I wont play a deck without unless it has Banned lands or Tendrils)

About the Null Rod and Green splash. I like them both. Top 8'ed the Legacy Premier on Modo last April with both configurations in the deck(in this thread somewhere).
Something like 18 lands(Trop+Bayou) and 3 Rods in sb.

Both choices were immense for me on the day. The meta was prepared for Animator with Leylines and the green splash helped me get there where the other reanimator players failed with UB lists. After boarding I had Claim, Grip, Tranq Domain(pre Back 2Nature) and SnT#2 to go along with main decked SnT and E.Truth.

Vial decks, Cbalance and Storm are all affected adversely by Null Rods as are all other decks relying on Crypt/Relic to stop you.

[The Pharmacist]

Played in a small tournament lastnight. I think there was 13 people. I ended up in the cash with this list


4 Duress
3 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Careful Study
4 Buried Alive
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Animate Dead
4 Dark Ritual
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Sphinx of the Steel wind
2 Blazing Archon
1 Inkwell Leviathan

2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
6 Swamp

S/B
4 Force of Will
3 Pithing Needle
3 Hibernation
1 Echoing Truth
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Terastondon
1 Akrom Angel of Wrath
1 Massacre Wurm

[Clark Kant]

Played in a small tournament lastnight. I think there was 13 people. I ended up in the cash with this list

Cool list, but I think you should play Thoughtseize over Duress. Thoughtseize can be used in a pinch to pitch your own creature and Reanimate it that same turn. Turn one Ritual, Thoughtseize your Iona to the yard, and Exhume before your opponent even lays down a land is broken.

I also think your deck would be even better if you played Intuition over Buried Alive.

Intuition also gets creatures to your yard, but also can tutor up a Reanimate/Exhume or Daze or whatever else you need, and it does this all at instant speed. You can even pitch it to FoW.

If you play flexible multifunction cards like that, you wouldn't even need to devote slots to Lim Dul's Vault.

[The Pharmacist]

Cool list, but I think you should play Thoughtseize over Duress. Thoughtseize can be used in a pinch to pitch your own creature and Reanimate it that same turn. Turn one Ritual, Thoughtseize your Iona to the yard, and Exhume before your opponent even lays down a land is broken.

I also think your deck would be even better if you played Intuition over Buried Alive.

Intuition also gets creatures to your yard, but also can tutor up a Reanimate/Exhume or Daze or whatever else you need, and it does this all at instant speed. You can even pitch it to FoW.

If you play flexible multifunction cards like that, you wouldn't even need to devote slots to Lim Dul's Vault.

I've been thinking about going to thoughtseize. I'm just not sure if we can afford the 2 life.

I want to go to Intuition over the Buried Alive. I just don't own them

[John Rohan]

I've been thinking about going to thoughtseize. I'm just not sure if we can afford the 2 life.

Thoughtseize is better than Duress for Reanimator, but it's still not the best option. You are right - when you add in the damage from the fetchlands and Reanimate Spells, Thoughtseize is just too much life loss. I prefer Cabal Therapy instead - still lets you see your opponents hand, it has a chance of getting rid of multiple cards, you can still use it on yourself, and it's got flashback to boot. And no life loss.

[jcsy]

Thoughtseize being able to hit an opposing Tarmogoyf and Reanimating it is priceless

[practical joke]

Thoughtseize being able to hit an opposing Tarmogoyf and Reanimating it is priceless

or a random goblin vs B/R goblins, works fine as well.

dark confidants aren't very good for hitting with reanimate though. (once did it,because both were emptyhanded and I only played 4 creatures and 3 force in my deck, but flipping empyrial archangel + force really hurts)

[Shabbaman]

I prefer Cabal Therapy instead - still lets you see your opponents hand, it has a chance of getting rid of multiple cards, you can still use it on yourself, and it's got flashback to boot.

If you're running Putrid Imp it might be worth a try, because then you actually have something to pay the flashback cost with.

[The Pharmacist]

Here is my list I played yesterday. There was a 100 people there and I made top 16 on the day.I didn't take notes so I'll do my best here.

3 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Entomb
4 Buried Alive
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Animate Dead
4 Dark Ritual
4 beseech the Queen
1 Grindstone
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Sphinx of the Steel wind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Painter's Servant

3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
7 Swamp

S/B
4 Null Rod
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Magus of the moon
1 Inkwell
1 Blazing Archon
1 Massacre Wurm
3 Krosan Grip
3 Reverent Silence


Round 1 - Merfolk

Game 1- he win the dice roll and goes to 5 cards. I keep my opening had. Not a hole lot going on here I get Iona out name blue we go to game 2.
-4 Dark Ritual + 4 Null Rod
Game 2- He playes Vial go. I thoughtseize him and take Curescacher. He still has Daze and Spell pierce, but only one land. He goes land go. I play dark Ritual he said ok. I drop Null rod. He gets stuck on 2 land and drops a dude. I reanimate the Cursecather on my turn.He still only has 2 land swings for 2, I take it. I have 4 land out now. I Entomb for Iona and cast Reanimate. I still have 2 land up and his Cursecather LOL. Iona comes into play and game over.

Round 2
Game 1- He wins the dice roll, Island go. Great another blue deck! My hand isn't bad but isn't great. 2 swamp 1 Entomb 2 A.Dead 2 Reanimate. Land Entomb. He said ok. I get Iona in the yard and said go. He gets a sea and plays Standstill. I play land A.Dead he said ok. Iona on Blue. I thought I was playing the GP Ohio Merfolk list. He plays land and Edicts me. I A.Dead he again and name black this time. Soon after I get Painter in play. We go To game 2

-4 Dark Ritual +4 Null rod

Game 2- I try to go off a few time and he just counters everything and wins

Game 3- Same as game 2

I guess I was playing the blue/black/green landstill list. He showed me his deck and I was Like there no way I was beating this deck
4 Force of Will 4 Counterspell 4 Spell Snare 4 Edicts 4 Extirpate.

Round 3
Game 1-He wins the dice roll. He plays Lotus Petal Forest Priest of Titania. I play swamp go. He drops 2 more elves go. I get Blazing Archon in the yard. He plays more Elves and is out of cards now. He swings and said go. I A.Dead Archon and he picks up.

-4 Thoughtsize +3 Krosan Grip +1

Game 2- Same thing really as game 1. He plays a bunch of Elves. I get Blazing Archon out. He ends up get Emrakul out. He takes his next turn and does nothing. I'm thinking he has a few Desert Twister in his deck to kill my Archon. He ends his turn. I look at his board and he's got 10 Elves in play. I get Massucre Wurm and put it in play. I win!

Round 4
Game 1- he wins the dice roll. He plays a bunch of Artifacts vs me and said go. I get Archon in my yard and the next turn I put him in play and he does the job.

-4 Thoughtsizes -1 something +4 null rod +1 archon
Samething a bunch of artifacts. I'm really not looking all this good at this point. I drop a turn 3 I drop Null Rod. He keeps swinging and beating my Face in. I'm at 1 life now. I end up getting Archon out and after sometime I get there.

Round 5
He wins the dice roll. I'm starting to get a little piss that I can't win a roll, but whatever. He's playing Team America. He counters a few spells and rides his goyf for the win.

-4 Dark Ritual 1 Woodfall + 4 Null Rod +1 Inkwell

Game 2- He goes down to 5 cards. I play swamp go. I have Entomb, Reanimate, Null Rod. I'm waiting to see what his turn 1 is like. He plays Island and 2 Crypt and said go. I play Null Rod and go. He Ponders and plays a land. EOT I get Iona. I Duess him and take Suffout. Put Iona in play and she gets there.

Game 3- This game is really long and really good. We Thoughtseize each other. I try to go off and he counters. He crypts me. I end up getting some dudes in my yard. At this point we have zero cards in hand. Were both in top deck mood. He draws 3 FOW in a row. I draw 3 Animate spells and they all get countered. I end up getting Iona and My Inwell out and win.

Round 6
Holy shit I win a dice roll!!! I look at my opening hand and I have 2 land 1 ritual, Entomb, Reanimate some other stuff. I think I saw this guy playing earlier in the day. So I think he's playing Goblins. I get turn 1 Iona out and name red!! His turn 1 play was Karakas LOL. Well he wasn't the Goblin player. On my turn he puts Iona in my hand and I get crushed. He's playing Zoo

I forget what I s/b here
Game 2- I get a fast Sphinx out and he lives. He was trying to burn me out but didn't happen. I end up getting the 2nd Sphinx out and he picks up.

Game 3- He goes turn 1 Nacatl. I Play dark ritual and buried alive. I put Iona, 2 Sphinx in the yard. He swings for 3 and drops a goyf.Im at 17 life at this point. I reanimate Iona and name WHITE. one his turn he Lightning Blots me 3 times LOl. Oh well what can you do.

Round 7
Game 1- He's playing a Blue/Black /Red control deck. I duress him a few time and get Iona and Painter out and He picks up.

-4 Dark Ritual +4 Null Rod

Game 2 I get another fast Iona out and she gets there.

There you have it. I never wright reports so sorry if it blows. I ended up in 14 over all and got a set of Catacombs.
I never said anything about the Beseech the Queen, but it was great all day long.
The reason I played the Painter/Grind stone was because I was having a really had time vs black decks with Nighthawk in them. So that was for back up.

[SMR0079]

Get that painter combo out of there...serioulsy it's horrible. If you play Buried Alivejust run the Necrotic Ooze/Phyrexian Devouer/ Trike combo. You can probably cut the Rituals as well for Putrid Imp.

[The Pharmacist]

Get that painter combo out of there...serioulsy it's horrible. If you play Buried Alivejust run the Necrotic Ooze/Phyrexian Devouer/ Trike combo. You can probably cut the Rituals as well for Putrid Imp.

Ummm painter/grindstone was great all day. Plus painter/Iona is good on it's own.

Btw u ran this list lastnight and went X-O.

You guys can say what you want about the list, but it's been really good to me and I like it. You guys should try a new idea every now and then.

[SMR0079]

Your list is fine except for the random painter combo. To many things have to go right for you to hit all of those together. Maybe you got lucky and hit it - but it is far from optimal.

Rather then get defensive try considering the feedback...that's the only reason to post in the forums, unless you just like to spam threads.

[The Pharmacist]

Your list is fine except for the random painter combo. To many things have to go right for you to hit all of those together. Maybe you got lucky and hit it - but it is far from optimal.

Rather then get defensive try considering the feedback...that's the only reason to post in the forums, unless you just like to spam threads.

Sorry if I sound like I was getting defensive in my post. I posted a few times in the Deadguy thread and got bashed for coming up with new ideas.

The painter/grind stone is really just for backup, and with the 4 tutors in the deck. It's really not that hard to pull off.

[SMR0079]

Just won a small Legacy event for a set of Tundras with Reanimator. I ended up deciding on redundancy in discard outlets and reanimate effects. I moved the Thoughtseize/Duress to the Board and cut the LDV/Ponders for 4x Putrid Imp and 3 Animate Dead giving me 12 outlets and 11 reanimate effects. It adds quite a bit of consistency to the deck without having to slow down for Duress, and I have been unhappy with LDV lately.

Null Rod was my sideboard MVP hosing MUD and Vial all day.

My only loss was to Zoo. Game one he had tripple Bolt for Iona naming white (it was a big Zoo version too). Kept a sketchy 6 hander game two and lost the race.

None of my opponents drew or had grave yard hate.

I beat: Dredge, Mud, Merfolk, NO Bant, Mud, Goblins.

[justindz]

Congrats! I thoroughly agree with your approach, as I've found the redundancy to be excellent. I'd be curious if you wouldn't mind posting:

What was your main and sideboard mix of fatties?
How did you board in the matches you played?

[SMR0079]

Ok, here is a quick summary.

8 disruption: 4 Fow, 1 Misdirection, 3 Daze
8 monsters: 2 Iona, 1 Terrastadon, 1 Spinx, 1 Platnium Emperion, 1 Blazing Archon, 1 Stormtide LEviathan, 1 Inkwell Leviathan
4 Putrid Imp
3 Animate Dead
17 Land
20 cards you all should be running ;)

SB:
4 Duress
3 Extirpate
3 Wipe Away
3 Null Rod
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Emprial Archangel

I side in Duress for Daze/misdirection on the Draw. You have to guess what kind of hate they will have whether you need Null Rod or Wipe Away. I often sided out various creatures for this disruption slot, along with a single Putrid Imp.

I don't think the Extirpates are really necassary, but I expected Dredge and one of our best players runs ThopterControl. It could be replaced with Spell Peirce which would help with the blue count. Some number of Imps could be hapless researcher, but besides the blue count, there is no reason you would want this change. Being able to win off a single Swamp was relavant more then once during the tournament. In certain situations fetching the Sea can cost you games to WAsteland, in others you need it for Daze back up.

The Angel was for the Storm match, but Platnimum Angel may be better with Painted Stone and High Tide decking you.
Show n Tell has not been very good to me as of late, and if there is that much yard hate for it to be really necassary then you should probably switch to another deck.

[justindz]

Looks like the same main board configuration I run, but significant differences in the SB (I use 4x Spell Pierce, for example) and I use Hapless instead of PImp. I think the Hapless has a slight advantage is certain situations where you lose unless you dig one card deeper--imp can't do that. However, Imp wins if you need a repeatable outlet. I just haven't seen that happen enough to be worth the cost of not pitching to Force and being unable to block.

Is the Dryad Arbor just a Misty Rainforest target for a blocker? When did you use that? Also, how do you feel about Wipe Away over Chain of Vapor (I use these) or Echoing Truth?

[practical joke]

you fetch it when you get warren weirding or another edict effect thrown at your head.

[SMR0079]

Looks like the same main board configuration I run, but significant differences in the SB (I use 4x Spell Pierce, for example) and I use Hapless instead of PImp. I think the Hapless has a slight advantage is certain situations where you lose unless you dig one card deeper--imp can't do that. However, Imp wins if you need a repeatable outlet. I just haven't seen that happen enough to be worth the cost of not pitching to Force and being unable to block.

Is the Dryad Arbor just a Misty Rainforest target for a blocker? When did you use that? Also, how do you feel about Wipe Away over Chain of Vapor (I use these) or Echoing Truth?

I am on the fence over Imp & Hapless Researcher. I may try a split. I run 5 fetches that can grab Arbor in response to an edict effect. I found the Gobblins match up to be surprisingly difficult if I don't get a quick start.

I prefer Wipe Away as an out to Counterbalance, and permanents like Ensnaring Bridge in Control.

[Kaslan]

Hey guys! what do you think if Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite as a reanimate target against Goblin, Merfolk, and Dredge ?

It's an auto GG for us no ?

[JonBarber]

Hey guys! what do you think if Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite as a reanimate target against Goblin, Merfolk, and Dredge ?

It's an auto GG for us no ?

Its not vs Goblins. They still have warren weirding and stingscourger, but it still seems pretty good nonetheless (especially if they're over committed to the board). Versus menfolk and dredge though, I would say yes, short of a bounce effect, they are in trouble.

[practical joke]

Cards that are good vs goblins...

iona (when there's no vial, nor lackey)
Sphinx of the steel wind (when iona doesn't cut it)
Akroma, angel of wrath ( pro vs warren weirding, you don't lose any clock)

Blazing archon and leviathan are mediocre, but decent.

[fdiv_bug]

Akroma, angel of wrath ( pro vs warren weirding, you don't lose any clock)
While I implicitly trust your judgment with regard to Reanimator... am I missing something? Protection from black doesn't stop Warren Weirding since the Weirding doesn't target the creature, but the player. Leyline of Sanctity would stop Warren Weirding, but man would that card be a poor choice for this deck. :tongue:

[Di]

Its not vs Goblins. They still have warren weirding and stingscourger, but it still seems pretty good nonetheless (especially if they're over committed to the board). Versus menfolk and dredge though, I would say yes, short of a bounce effect, they are in trouble.

Short of a bounce effect, he'd be stricly worse than Blazing Archon against Merfolk. Merfolk can still rack up lords and level up Coralhelm Commanders to offset this and either swing through it thanks to islandwalk, or even potentially gang-block to kill it as it also lacks evasion. Either one is fine vs. Dredge, except I suppose Blazing Archon is slightly weaker in the random corner-case scenario that they have an army and randomly Dread Return Angel of Despair.

I'd still prefer Sphinx of the Steel Wind against Goblins regardless, although he's nice to reset the board.

[practical joke]

Sphinx is fine, but if they start chaining the nuts with piledrivers...

not even the sphinx is going to help. ( yeah happened to me once...he took me from 33 life to 0 in 2 attack phases)
I won my 9th round game vs goblins by akroma (was worth the sideboard slot since she's borderline against some random match-ups that play bitterblossom and crap.)

[Kaslan]

For merfolk to beat Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite they would have to have 2 lords on the board. and reanimator go's off turn 2 or 3 . they don't have the time to set up 2 lords.

what do you guys think if this list ? :

LANDS x 17
2 x Scalding Tarn
4 x Polluted Delta
2 x Underground Sea
1 x Badlands
2 x Volcanic Island
3 x Seat of the Synod
3 x Vault of Whispers

INSTANTS x 15
4 x Brainstorm
3 x Force of Will
4 x Entomb
4 x Lim-Dul's Vault

SORCERY x 14
3 x Exhume
3 x Reanimate
4 x Thoughtseize
4 x Careful Study

ARTIFACT x 5
3 x Chrome Mox
2 x Sensei's Divining Top

CREATURE x 9
1 x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 x Inkwell Leviathan
1 x Platinum Emperion
1 x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 x Sundering Titan
4 x Goblin Welder


SB x 15

2 x Echoing Truth
3 x Pithing Needle
1 x Nihil Spellbomb
1 x Tormod's Crypt
3 x Show and Tell
2 x Spell Pierce
1 x Gilded Drake
1 x Blazing Archon
1 x Novablast Wurm

MVP of this deck : Goblin welder + Sundering Titan .

[TheSleeper]

I'm surprised this deck hasn't popped up in SCG lately, given that Dredge has been able to. Do you have any thoughts on this? I always thought Reanimator was a more all-in deck than Dredge; being faster but more susceptible to disruption (ie Thoughtseize). Regardless I want to get into this deck and have been playing around with it, using P Chapin's list as a starting point. For testing I dropped -1 Daze -1 Preordain -1 Fetch for +2 Hapless Researcher +1 Animate Dead. For those unfamiliar Chapin's list has 6 reanimate targets (2 Iona).

I decided to run 40 goldfish games for various reasons. Yes goldfishing is terrible etc however not having played the deck, I wanted to get a handle on expected speed, which hands to keep, consistency etc, with a view to tweaking ratios (enablers, reanimators, disruption, etc) afterwards.

Here are some observations (always on the play):
26/40 (65%) - had a T2/T3 Iona in play, with either a Thoughtseize beforehand or FoW backup. 6/26 (23%) of these were after mulling to 6.
5/40 (12.5%) - had a creature in turns 2-4, however it either wasn't Iona or had no pre-Seize/countermagic
9/40 (22.5%) - didn't reanimate a creature before turn 4 thus fizzling/losing

Of my 'fizzles', 4/9 (44%) were because I kept a hand with no creature/Entomb. This obviously looks like a problem and probably wouldn't keep a 7-card no creature/Entomb in future. Especially considering 23% of the good games came after mulliganing, it seems this deck can mull aggressively and pretty well. For those more experienced with the deck, is this the consensus? Reanimate targets also look like a potential ratio to tweak (I see a number of posters already run more than 6).

Cheers!

[TheSleeper]

<double post>

[justindz]

I'm surprised this deck hasn't popped up in SCG lately, given that Dredge has been able to. Do you have any thoughts on this? I always thought Reanimator was a more all-in deck than Dredge; being faster but more susceptible to disruption (ie Thoughtseize). Regardless I want to get into this deck and have been playing around with it, using P Chapin's list as a starting point. For testing I dropped -1 Daze -1 Preordain -1 Fetch for +2 Hapless Researcher +1 Animate Dead. For those unfamiliar Chapin's list has 6 reanimate targets (2 Iona).

I decided to run 40 goldfish games for various reasons. Yes goldfishing is terrible etc however not having played the deck, I wanted to get a handle on expected speed, which hands to keep, consistency etc, with a view to tweaking ratios (enablers, reanimators, disruption, etc) afterwards.

Here are some observations (always on the play):
26/40 (65%) - had a T2/T3 Iona in play, with either a Thoughtseize beforehand or FoW backup. 6/26 (23%) of these were after mulling to 6.
5/40 (12.5%) - had a creature in turns 2-4, however it either wasn't Iona or had no pre-Seize/countermagic
9/40 (22.5%) - didn't reanimate a creature before turn 4 thus fizzling/losing

Of my 'fizzles', 4/9 (44%) were because I kept a hand with no creature/Entomb. This obviously looks like a problem and probably wouldn't keep a 7-card no creature/Entomb in future. Especially considering 23% of the good games came after mulliganing, it seems this deck can mull aggressively and pretty well. For those more experienced with the deck, is this the consensus? Reanimate targets also look like a potential ratio to tweak (I see a number of posters already run more than 6).

Cheers!

Anecdotally, I noticed that a lot of my more harder fought wins (aka, not stuff like turn 2 Iona against ANT or turn 2 Inkwell against control pre-board) were achieved by redundancy. They hold off the first 2 effects, but I just dig for a third because there are so many. That sort of thing.

I personally run 7 creatures main (2 Iona, Plat Emp, Stormtide, Blazing Archon, the 'Don, Inkwell) and I think that's good because it gives you a good chance of having one in the first 8 cards where it counts and helps out with the redundancy I cited above.

I also mulligan more aggressively now that I've played the deck more. I always say that some decks will just lose to Swamp, Entomb, Reanimate. So just to illustrate the point, there is a theoretically keep-able 2-card hand with a nice peel off the top ;-). Like Dredge, I think you can afford in some cases and against the right decks to go down to 5 cards without a high cost. Do RDW type statistics as well. If you run 11 reanimate effects (4 Reanimate, 4 Exhume, 3 Animate Dead) and you open a hand with Careful Study, Brainstorm, fetch, a creature and no Reanimate effects, that's probably keep-able unless you're facing a really bad match. Between drawing, the storm, the study and the fetch, the odds of getting to the right effect are pretty good. Better than not having a creature or discard outlet, for example.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

I recently started playing Reanimator. Here's my current list:

17 Land
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
2 Snow-Covered Island
2 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Mountain

10 Creatures
4 Hapless Researcher
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Platinum Angel
1 Terastodon

34 Spells
4 Force of Will
4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Burning Wish
4 Exhume
4 Entomb
3 Reanimate
2 Animate Dead

15 Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
3 Spell Pierce
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Show and Tell
1 Reanimate
1 Pulverize
1 Pyroclasm
1 Deathmark
1 Flameslash

I splashed Burning Wish to see if it made the deck more consistent. It's working well so far, but I'm not sure if it's just a "cute trick."

Any ideas? Comments are appreciated :laugh:

[justindz]

I recently started playing Reanimator. Here's my current list:

17 Land
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
2 Snow-Covered Island
2 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Mountain

10 Creatures
4 Hapless Researcher
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Platinum Angel
1 Terastodon

34 Spells
4 Force of Will
4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Burning Wish
4 Exhume
4 Entomb
3 Reanimate
2 Animate Dead

15 Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
3 Spell Pierce
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Show and Tell
1 Reanimate
1 Pulverize
1 Pyroclasm
1 Deathmark
1 Flameslash

I splashed Burning Wish to see if it made the deck more consistent. It's working well so far, but I'm not sure if it's just a "cute trick."

Any ideas? Comments are appreciated :laugh:

Try it both ways and see which works better. I know that wasn't too helpful. I would personally be quite uncomfortable playing without Daze and the ability to rely on basic lands.

[jcsy]

no Thoughtseize or discard effects?

[RexFTW]

Creature selection is easy:
decks that attack: sphinx of the steel wind
merefolk or dredge: blazing archon or sphinx
control decks: inwell leviathan
combo: iona or terastadon


also re the goblin discussion:
your best plan is to get a sphinx in the bin and reanimate it every time they kill it. If you can set up Iona on red + sphinx you are usually golden. The iona stops matrons from looking for weirdings. sphinx has protection for stingscourger.

[Lejay]

Stronghold gambit seems like a good wish target.

[Scordata]

You know, I saw Stonghold Gambit in a list somewhere, but I have no idea how this helps us.
Maybe I'm retarded, but I'm fairly positive that our reamination targets have a higher CMC than Tarmogoyf and company.
Care to explain this secret tech?

[Lejay]

It's useful against combo storm, show and tell, control and prison. Obviously you don't play it against aggro, tempo or countertop unless they have an empty hand.
Against these decks it's not only cheaper than Show and tell. It's also a good idea to put a creature into play without having the opponent put his Emrakul/Humility/Aluren etc...

[lorddotm]

It's useful against combo storm, show and tell, control and prison. Obviously you don't play it against aggro, tempo or countertop unless they have an empty hand.
Against these decks it's not only cheaper than Show and tell. It's also a good idea to put a creature into play without having the opponent put his Emrakul/Humility/Aluren etc...

I can't wait to see someone cast this against Storm and then have them throw down a Xantid Swarm. That would be very awkward.

[Lejay]

It happened in testing. :)
I was running stronghold sb gambit in a reanimator in a tournament in december. I had a volcanic spray in the sb and 3 main deck TS + 3 duress SB to avoid this situation.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Stronghold gambit seems like a good wish target.

Cool! :) I'll give it a try. So far testing with Burning Wish is working out well.

[into_play]

I know it's been nearly two weeks, but I played Reanimator at SSG: Los Angeles and ended up going 5-3. It was my first major tournament and despite the three losses, I feel like I made few play errors and had an all-around good time. I ended up beating an Eldrazi/Cloudpost deck, Goblins, two Burn decks and a Show and Tell deck, and lost to a Madness deck (which ended up finishing in 16th place), Canadian Threshold, and another Eldrazi/Cloudpost. My list is the same as one I posted a couple of pages back, except with a Terastodon being replaced by a Tidespout Tyrant. I added in the Tyrant because I was paranoid about running into a Peacekeeper that would prevent me from ever winning. Even though I didn't run into any Peacekeepers, the Tyrant had some great moments, namely against the Cloudpost builds. I also think that Tidespout Tyrant could be good against lots of other potential future decks, and gives Reanimator an out against certain problem permanents (without the liability of several 3/3 elephant tokens). I advise anyone that's willing to give Dr. Manhattan a shot.

I will post a report a bit later.

[TheSleeper]

Would love to read a report into_play :)

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Here's an updated Burning Wish board.

15 Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
3 Spell Pierce
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Show and Tell
1 Reanimate
1 Pulverize
1 Pyroclasm
1 Deathmark
1 Stronghold Gambit

So far having Force of Will as my only means of protection is working solid. I'm not sure if I'll need to add some discard or more counters. I plan on taking this to a tournament again in a week or so.

[Sturtzilla]

Hey All,

I recently played a smaller Legacy Tournament at Bell's Cards and Comics Grove City, PA. If you page back a bit you can see the decklist that I was running. I figured I would give a short report on how my day went out there.

Round 1: Zoo
Zoo can be a rough match up for my build. But with a fast enough hand it can be easily beaten.

Game 1: She won the roll and played. I landed a turn 2 Inkwell Leviathan and wrecked. The damage race was close but I sealed it with 8 life left.

Game 2: She was again on the play. We both kept hand that were probably less than optimal. I managed to get an Empryial Archangel and a Sphinx of the Steal Wind which eventually turned the tide of a slow game in my favor.

Record: 2-0-0

Match 2: Affinity
This can be another rough match but post board can be fixed pretty easily. I actually lent this deck to my opponent and was really biting my nails because it is pretty fast.

Game 1: I came out fast with a turn 2 Inkwell Leviathan and managed to seal the deal a turn before the artifactiod hordes would have finished me.

Game 2: I was on the draw and kept a one lander with the promise of a turn 2 Blazing Acrhon. The promise was fleeting as I didn't draw into the second land I needed... a plated dude beat me down.

Game 3: I chose to play and managed the turn 1-2 Entomb/Exhume for a Blazing Archon. This kept his dudes at bay while flying over for the win.

Record: 4-1-0

Round 3: Mono-Blue Merfolk
This can be an easy or tough matchup based on the exact build. This guy knew his deck and was on point.

Game 1: I chose to play but mulligan to 5 and can't recover. He wrecks my face with fishies pretty early.

Game 2: The outcome was not much different. I dug and dug for the reanimation I needed yet didn't hit it. I managed to counter my way to a few extra turn but was not able to stage any form of offense. Fishies come through to get me yet again.

Record: 4-3-0

Round 4: U/B Merfolk
As stated above, based on build this can be a good MU or bad. This one proved a bit better than the previous for me.

Game 1: He scoops to a turn 2 Inkwell, after I daze his FOW.

Game 2: I let an Aether Vial hit and get a turn 3 Inkwell. I follow the Inkwell with a Pithing Needle for the vial. He had a bit better board position by this point than the last game, so he races me for damage. I came out a turn faster than he did.

Record 6-3-0

Post Tournament Thoughts

This was the first Legacy event that has happened at Bell's, so going in I was not sure what to expect. My board did have some dead cards and that will be fixed for the next event there. I ended up 3rd overall and got a good bit of store credit. The Merfolk guy that beat me round 3 went on to win it. The guy he displaced in round four one upped me on tiebreakers and got 2nd. My only concern would be having a better way to deal with the fishies. The merfolk player that beat me in round three and I playtest together. I know how to beat the build but sometimes you just can't get the cards you need. I hope you guys get a kick out of reading about the event.

[Darklingske]

also re the goblin discussion: If you can set up Iona on red + sphinx you are usually golden. The iona stops matrons from looking for weirdings. sphinx has protection for stingscourger.

About the Iona: Actually that only happens when they don't have a vial or lackey active. And that situation happens only when easter is on a monday against a good goblin player.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

OK, so after playtesting this is what I've decided to run for an upcoming tournament next week:

17 Land
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Mountain

10 Creatures
4 Hapless Researcher
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Terastodon

33 Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Careful Study
4 Burning Wish
4 Entomb
3 Ponder
3 Stifle
3 Reanimate
3 Exhume
1 Darkblast

15 Sideboard
3 Pithing Needle
3 Spell Pierce
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Pulverize
1 Pyroclasm
1 Deathmark
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Show and Tell
1 Exhume
1 Reanimate

Any last minute suggestions are very much welcome :) I'll be sure to have a report, too.

[Clark Kant]

Why not a Buried Alive in the board?

[jcsy]

with 4 hapless, 4 careful study and 4 entomb, i doubt we need buried alive

not to mention show and tell

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Why not a Buried Alive in the board?

Buried Alive for the wish board seems a tad too slow, but I'll be sure to try it out.

[Patrick]

I just got third in a Trial with this list:

3 Iona
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Terastadon
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Platinum Empyerion

4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
3 Daze

4 Duress
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume

4 Underground Sea
3 Swamp
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire


4 Pithing Needle
4 Show and Tell
4 Chain of Vapor
1 Wipe Away
2 Thoughtseize


Explanations:

I don't think Burning Wish adds enough to the deck to justify a third color. This deck is basically Wasteland-proof, and can operate at 100% of Island and Swamp.

Platinum Empyerion is a new card, it replaced the second Sphinx. I liked him because he offered free wins against Merfolk, Burn, Affinity, Storm and any other decks with no removal. Throughout the day I realized that Platinum Angel is probably better, as they both get Plowed and Angel does more (see round 2).

As for sideboarding I usually board out the guys I don't want. Just a fact about my playstyle.

I can't figure out why people want to play Darkslick Shores. With Daze that choice is downright dumb, and with no Daze I still fail to see the advantages over playing Underground Sea. The card seems bad as hell.


Tournament: (14 players)

Round 1: Combo Elves

Game 1 Iona on green turn 3, care of Exhume, stops him from comboing.

I bring in Thoughseize over Duress, and a couple Chains over Ponder or something.

Game 2 I have Duress and Thoughtseize. I lead on Thoughtseize and see Thorn of Amethyst. Wishing I had led with Duress, I take Heritage Druid because I fear he will go off. Thorn lands and I can't find a 3rd land to Exhume an Angel. I die to some 1/1's.

Game 3 Iona comes down on turn 2. I win.

1-0

Round 2: Affinity w/ Pest and Tezz

Game 1 I Entomb and Reanimate Platinum Empyerion. The way the rules work you don't lose life. He has no out to the big guy, but I can't win this way because he has a bunch of Myr Enforcers and Master of Etherium. I Force of Will a couple Ornithopters and beat with Iona, Sphinx and Archon in one turn.

I bring in the Seizes over Duress, a couple Needles and a couple Chains. I take out more Ponder and Inky.

Game 2 my hand limps around and I die to Cranial Plating. I have Needle but I need to wait for Plating, Ravager or Tezz to hit before I cast it. The Plating comes down and equips, and it's too late.

Game 3 I die real fast again.

1-1

Round 3: Belcher

I know I'm against Belcher, but a mulligan to 6 shows no Force of will. Being on the draw I know I"m dead.

Game 1 he makes 8 Goblins and I can't get an Archon/Empyeron down fast enough.

I bring in 4 Needle and 2 Thoughseize over Ponders and some bad creatures.

Game 2 I have Force of Will and get Iona down on Red. He wants to win with Burning Wish, so we move along.

Game 3 I have Force, blue card, Duress, Thoughtseize, Needle, Reanimate and something else. No land. I keep. He goes for a combo and I Force of Will targeting Seething Song. I rip the land and Duress a Belcher away from him. Next turn I needle Belcher (the other card in his hand) and then get Iona down. Good game.

2-1

Round 4: Merfolk

Wee ha! I have a winning record here, so whatever.

Game 1 my hand is pretty quick, but Cursecatcher followed by 3 more Cursecatchers render my Duresses useless, and I die.

I bring in a couple Chains and the Thoughseizes over Terastadon and some Ponders.

I get Empyrion down after Duressing away Force, and plan some beats. He has too much power on the board so I sit back and wait for a flier. He has 3 Vials, at 1,2 and 3. He bumps them all up to 2,3 and 4. I realize Sower of Temptation is in my future. I find Inky and end the game before Sower comes up. This game goes on for a long time, and I have 2 Chain of Vapor, which save me from 2 attacks. When I go for Inky he has Spell Pierce, Pierce, Daze, Daze (I Duressed a Force), and he drew another Daze. I had all my land out, so I paid for all the spells.

Game 2 he keeps a hand with only Force and 3 lords. I get Iona down. Daze is no good.

3-1 into top 4!!!

Affinity again

I'm not happy about this, I think the kid went 3-1 like me.

Game 1 I get Empyerion down again, but Plating on Ornithopter keeps Iona back. Eventually he gets 4 Master of Etherium, a few Thopters, 3 Blinkmoth Nexus and some Arcbound Ravager. This keeps my fliers back forever and I run out of cards to draw. This is why Platinum Angel should be in the deck.

I bring in more Needle and Chain.

My hand is a little slow on a mulligan to 6 and I get beat down by guys.




At the end of the day I won 36 bucks in credit, and my teammate/friend Jason picked up 3 byes, he played G/W guys with Teeg in the main, and Sword of Body and Mind (awful, couldn't get Fire and Ice). He crushed Affinity guy.

[SMR0079]

OK, so after playtesting this is what I've decided to run for an upcoming tournament next week:

17 Land
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Mountain

10 Creatures
4 Hapless Researcher
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Terastodon

33 Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Careful Study
4 Burning Wish
4 Entomb
3 Ponder
3 Stifle
3 Reanimate
3 Exhume
1 Darkblast

15 Sideboard
3 Pithing Needle
3 Spell Pierce
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Pulverize
1 Pyroclasm
1 Deathmark
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Show and Tell
1 Exhume
1 Reanimate

Any last minute suggestions are very much welcome :) I'll be sure to have a report, too.

Burning Wish is an interesting direction, I would monitor whether it adds consistency or slows you down with wateland vulnerability.

I would also cut Stifle, Ponder, the 4th researcher, and the darkblast. Stifle is not apprpriate in Reanimator and would be much better served as more pitch counters. Ponder is not needed especially with Burning Wish. I'm assuming Darkblast is for things like Peace keeper, but it's such a niche card and you have outs with Wish.

I also believe you need 8 monsters to increase the probability of having one in your opening draw.

Null Rod is preferale to Pitching Needle in my book. Depending on how much counterbalance you face, 3 Wipe Aways may be prudent.

At any rate, until people start packing more hate Reanimator is a great choice to fly under the radar. I'm 3 for 3 in top eights with the deck over th elast month or so.

[moseby]

Actually Stifle is not terrible choice. Back before MT got the ban hammer I ran stifle in place of TS. It was good because I could slow down zoo's first fetch, obviously it stops crypt and relic, but in my meta Faeries was prevalent. and Stifle is awesome vs spellstutter. Two stifles on them helped win me a twister. It also works for Faerie Macabre which also saw tons of play and was unconterable.

Are there better choices possibly, it really depends on your meta. Is null rod better? Maybe it stops all the artifact shenanigans that is going around today.

[SMR0079]

Actually Stifle is not terrible choice. Back before MT got the ban hammer I ran stifle in place of TS. It was good because I could slow down zoo's first fetch, obviously it stops crypt and relic, but in my meta Faeries was prevalent. and Stifle is awesome vs spellstutter. Two stifles on them helped win me a twister. It also works for Faerie Macabre which also saw tons of play and was unconterable.

Are there better choices possibly, it really depends on your meta. Is null rod better? Maybe it stops all the artifact shenanigans that is going around today.

No, it's really not meta dependant. Stifle is a very niche card that doesn't belong in this deck. Focus on what matters, resolving a turn 2 reanimate spell. Daze/Misdirection help you to accomplish your goal whereas Stifle does not.

Null Rod solves the majority of graveyard hate while being a blow out vs affinity and Forgemaster.dec. not mention hitting things like Vial, Top, or Grindstone.

[Clark Kant]

Jin-Gitaxis, Core Augur seems like an awesome reanimate target. You draw 7 cards and your opponent discards his hand.

[NyxathidHorror]

Jin-Gitaxis, Core Augur seems like an awesome reanimate target. You draw 7 cards and your opponent discards his hand.

New favorite reanimation target! I think I might end up getting a set of this one.

[Davetradint]

You must protect your Jin-Gitaxis one turn, since opponent keeps his hand until his Cleanup step i guess. Then he will discard and keep 0 cards, so the only threat is whatever he topdecks.

Also, very interesting Mental Misstep, now pay 2 life points and counter that nasty PTE/STP that would kill your guy...manafree!!!

Thoughts?

[Equinozio]

I really like the new evicar lord that gives -2/-2 to creatures I don't control.

For dredge is autowin unles they have a chain of vapor. For goblins and elves the same. Merfolks depending when arrives could not be suficient. And there are some decks that run small creatures I know that blazing archon is better but killing dudes is really awsome because they'll have to recover after bouncing the dude.

What I mean is that some times is not the target for entomb but for fighting trhought hate with more dudes that do the virtually the same.

[Clark Kant]

Jin-Gitaxis shouldn't be hard to protect for a turn since you will have drawn 7 new cards, so probably a fow, daze, misstep and or discard.

Evincar Lord is a huge bomb too. Can't prevent an Emrakul from attacking though.

[Sturtzilla]

I think Jin-Gitaxis should prove decent as you will more than likely draw counter magic, discard, or the spells needed to re-reanimate him, if your opponent manages to remove him. The discard down to zero is amazing and on a turn two or three reanimate. This would really decimate many decks out there.

On the evincar lord, I am a bit torn. I think in many tribal situations, this dude will be awesome. This would be because even if he is removed, you will still dramatically set back their board position. I would look at this creature as more of a one-sided wrath with the potential to also be a win-con. Without protection/shroud, you will have to have the specific counters to keep him alive. In other tribal match ups, such as combo elves, it would be a blow out.

I have been browsing spoilers and was wondering what other reanimator players are thinking about Sheoldred, Whispering One? This guy seems to be a Reya Dawnbringer with the additional sacrifice clause for your opponent. I realize he does not have shroud or any real protection like many of the creatures that we prefer to play. What are other players thoughts on this new arrival?

[Equinozio]

On the evincar lord, I am a bit torn. I think in many tribal situations, this dude will be awesome. This would be because even if he is removed, you will still dramatically set back their board position. I would look at this creature as more of a one-sided wrath with the potential to also be a win-con. Without protection/shroud, you will have to have the specific counters to keep him alive. In other tribal match ups, such as combo elves, it would be a blow out.

What I mean is that Sphinx vs goblins still can die to warren weirding and blazin archon or platinium emperion still die to stingscourger. But with him in board we have a few turns to add some more threats because all his goblins will be dead. If he used a matron to find a scourger is still better to us. I'll try it when it comes.

@All : Talking about Jin-Gitaxis in what match-ups will you search him?? I only think of combo and some decks with no removal.

[Clark Kant]

I think he's worth reanimating against most any deck if you can protect him till the end of your turn. Draw 7 more cards, discard the chaff including any creatures you drew or had, keep a fistful of discard effects and reanimates. Thats brutal. If he survives a bit longer till the end of your opponents turn, you've won the game 19/20 times.

To clarify, hes not a good reanimate target, but he's a steller exhume and animate dead target.

[Equinozio]

Yes if we have protection ok, but with no protection is almost useless I think.

[Clark Kant]

Many games either opponent will be tapped out on turn two or we already thoughtseized them or have a fow, mental mistep or daze handy. Or if he is playing a deck without white in it, we don't even need that. Once we draw 7 cards at eot, well have more protection.

[NyxathidHorror]

Many games either opponent will be tapped out on turn two or we already thoughtseized them or have a fow, mental mistep or daze handy. Or if he is playing a deck without white in it, we don't even need that. Once we draw 7 cards at eot, well have more protection.

Exactly. This new set has brought a lot to reanimator.

[practical joke]

Exactly. This new set has brought a lot to reanimator.

Actually...not really.

the point is... it has no protection WHATSOEVER!!!!!

reanimate fatty...stp. you just got pwned.

then again if you can draw 7 (in case of reanimate most are blanks for the next creature and just a few protection spells, assuming daze will do crap)

they'll remove it in their turn..or be able to drop half their hand.

This creature is by no means insufficient in self-protection compared to iona (she pretty much has self-protection, especially in the current meta)
sphinx (snacks goblins, life-gain, protection from relevant colors, white is not needed due to iona), inkwell can do the same, only edict effects and RWM can give this beatstick a hard time.

I'm not convinced this jinta.whateverosaurus has any potential at all. I only see this card being slightly usefull are some borderline match-ups where you drop it T1-2, but guess what, iona seals that deal as well, but most of the time even better.

[datanaga]

Actually...not really.

the point is... it has no protection WHATSOEVER!!!!!

reanimate fatty...stp. you just got pwned.

then again if you can draw 7 (in case of reanimate most are blanks for the next creature and just a few protection spells, assuming daze will do crap)

they'll remove it in their turn..or be able to drop half their hand.

This creature is by no means insufficient in self-protection compared to iona (she pretty much has self-protection, especially in the current meta)
sphinx (snacks goblins, life-gain, protection from relevant colors, white is not needed due to iona), inkwell can do the same, only edict effects and RWM can give this beatstick a hard time.

I'm not convinced this jinta.whateverosaurus has any potential at all. I only see this card being slightly usefull are some borderline match-ups where you drop it T1-2, but guess what, iona seals that deal as well, but most of the time even better.

Thanks for this post, may I sign it? :)
I had no energy to wrote it by myself.

[Clark Kant]

Practical joke, the only situation where it truly doesn't make sense to reanimate this is against a deck playing white, with white mana untapped that you hadn't already thoughtseized and don't have a Fow, mental misstep or daze handy. That's a pretty rare scenario and in that particular one this is a poor target.

Any other situation (the vast majority of situations) this is a great target. You will draw 7 cards which will probably include countermagic or mental misstep and thus force your opponent to dump his hand. Even I'd you don't, drawing 7 more cards than your opponent should win you the game unless you get horrifically unlucky.

[datanaga]

untaped white mana doesn't matter so much, your oponent has his whole turn to get rid of Jin-Gitaxis, because of discard phase...

[practical joke]

Practical joke, the only situation where it truly doesn't make sense to reanimate this is against a deck playing white, with white mana untapped that you hadn't already thoughtseized and don't have a Fow, mental misstep or daze handy. That's a pretty rare scenario and in that particular one this is a poor target.

Any other situation (the vast majority of situations) this is a great target. You will draw 7 cards which will probably include countermagic or mental misstep and thus force your opponent to dump his hand. Even I'd you don't, drawing 7 more cards than your opponent should win you the game unless you get horrifically unlucky.

Be realistic...really try to be. It's a frigging 5/4 creature, you are, half of the time, on 10 life, possibly even less. You have a low clock, a single resolved tarmogoyf will tear this creature apart and you want to try to win? you need to exhume a second fatty, hoping your opponent doesn't have anything.

Saying...I play MM, seize, force at the ready is being completely naïve, you have 1, maybe 2, but you need them to resolve your shit as well.
Reanimate doesn't really abuse card advantage that well, and a good opponent can pretty well beat 7 cards disadvantage since you already threw a buttload away on this summon including 10 life (when reanimated).

You simply don't have the space in this deck to play both daze, force, seize, mental, enough fatties and reanimation spells to make it all work like that with ease. It doesn't work that way. The deck is very capable of fizzling..and if they get a T2 goyf out, like hell this creature is going to do something. (discard hand..goyf becomes 5/6, tough luck)

and with that said, for reanimate consistency is more important that 16 protection cards...I'm keeping my brainstorm! it's consistency is iffy already. (and yes I want seize above MM as well since it's another discard outlet I used more than I want to admit)

[RexFTW]

I can't wait to see someone cast this against Storm and then have them throw down a Xantid Swarm. That would be very awkward.

why would storm not play the swarm on the first turn? maybe they have several in their hand? seems unlikely.

[Clark Kant]

untaped white mana doesn't matter so much, your oponent has his whole turn to get rid of Jin-Gitaxis, because of discard phase...

You just drew seven cards. You're telling me that a deck with several counters can't protect a creature for one turn after having just drawn seven extra cards.

And if even inspite of that, they manage to kill it. Big deal. You still drew seven cards and also discarded some more fatties that you drew. You're bound to now have a fistful of reanimation spells and discard all while your opponents hand is likely exhausted of removal and counters.

I guess it depends on the build. In my build which plays 3-4 Animate Dead (posted earlier in this thread) there's plenty of animate effects that don't cost you life to go around.

[gobblor]

Hello all, I will start by saying that I am probably more on the side of not playing the big blue guy. However, I think he is better than some people are giving him credit for. You kind of have to look at him as almost two reanimations/exhumes/animates. We all know he draws us 7, so you are either going to draw counters, like everyone has already said or... you are going to draw another way to reanimate something (maybe if your lucky counters and another way to reanimate). So absolute worst case scenario assuming your 7 cards are not the worst 7 card draw ever is that you draw 7 have no protection and then set up another exhume or whatever next turn and they burned their kill spell.

With that said, the reason I think I am not going to end up playing this guy ( I will try him out though) is that right now I can't think of a matchup where I would want this guy over any other of my targets except maybe storm and even then I would probably rather just get Iona.

the -2/-2 guy seems pretty good maybe even as a SB card against the decks where you want a back up to blazing archon, or the game gets to the point where you need a sweeper.

[Sturtzilla]

With that said, the reason I think I am not going to end up playing this guy ( I will try him out though) is that right now I can't think of a matchup where I would want this guy over any other of my targets except maybe storm and even then I would probably rather just get Iona.

I think that this is a well reasoned response. I agree there are many match ups where we would love to fill our hands back up and still have a dude on the board. The reality of the situation is that this deck already has a creature or a few creatures to pull for nearly every deck out there. I must admit I was on the bandwagon when Jin-Gitaxis was spoiled. He is a solid frame, fills your hand back up, can fill the graveyard with additional fatties (or let you pitch extra land/other unneeded cards), and if protected can devastate your opponent. He basically does everything that this deck wants to do with the exception of allowing you to reanimate on the spot. However it is more than likely that we will not need him. We have many other dudes that would be harder to deal with; bounce, remove, and/or survive attacks, due to shroud, protection from specific colors, and larger bodies. I still think he is worth testing out but he may not be ideal against every match as seems to be the stance of some in this forum.

On a separate note, the -2/-2 neo-evincar may prove more useful than I originally thought. If removed, he should have still set back your opponent's board position. I am on board with slating this guy in the sideboard or even in the main depending on the meta.

[alderon666]

I think that the new blue guy is bonkers. There will be situations where he can seal games that other targets wouldn't be able to. Sometimes when fighting multicolored decks (Iona = not so good) and the opponent had a slow start, you can reanimate this guy, protect him and after your opponent has discarded his hand... it's game over. On the turn after you play him you'll probably be able to reanimate something else and end the game.

The new -2/-2 guy is godsend. It deserves at least a sideboard spot. It's all the Massacre Wurm wanted to be. Hard to kill, wipes the board and keeps it clean until removed. Strictly good against tribal though.

MM is really good too. Makes StP and Path that much less scary.

[gobblor]

Regarding the mental misstep, there is no doubt that the card is ridiculously good.However, with force,thoughseize,fetch land, and reanimate cab we really afford much more life loss or am I just being paranoid?

Also, mental misstep actual makes me kind of scared to play this deck because we have so many 1 cc ( thoughtseize, careful study, brainstorm,reanimate, entomb, hapless researcher, and if we add the misstep then that is one more target for them to counter)

[Sturtzilla]

I have been play testing a bit proxying in Jin-Gitaxis a bit to see how he would work out. My results have been far from conclusive but I think our discussion of this new arrival has been been accurate. He can be awesome, but you have to keep him alive. In playing a few match ups, I found myself wanting to combo Jin-Gitaxis with Cabal Therapy. I think this might just be a bit greedy or even gimmicky. Yet it might prove useful.

Example:
Turn 1: Land, Entomb (Jin-Gitaxis)
Turn 2: Land, Exhume (Jin-Gitaxis)
Turn 3: Attack, Cabal Therapy, Flashback, Reanimate or Exhume (Jin-Gitaxis)

If you do this, you manage to make tons of cards advantage, while potentially ditching more targets to reanimate. You also bring your dude back untapped to potentially defend. I guess you could also just defend with him and then bring him back without the cabal therapy, but you lose the ability to nuke that one card or make forward progress at your opponent's life total. The downside would be that you opponent may not have any cards in hand by the time you sacrifice him for the cabal therapy. This was just a thought that popped into my head. I am still unsure whether or not I am sold on him altogether. I would love to hear some feedback.

[NyxathidHorror]

From the little bit of testing I've had with Jin-Gitaxis (I've been more into combo recently); I've come to the conclusion that Jin-Gitaxis is worth it, if you're running enough protection. I've been testing Mental Misstep along with Jin-Gitaxis and it definitely makes a difference; misstep will be played in more than a couple different decks.

I have yet to lose a game when Jin-Gitaxis has lasted until the end of my opponents turn; filling your hand and discarding your opponents is too much for any deck to handle. At that point I've set up at least 1 more reanimation target, and plenty of protection; while my opponent is in top-deck mode.

Jin-Gitaxis might not be the end-all for reanimator, but it does have a LOT of potential.

[The Pharmacist]

I know this isn't the spot and I shouldn't be doing this THEN DON'T FUCKING DO IT. Here, I'll help. ~NC

[jamied1981]

Now I am curious to know what the above post was lol. I am playing Reanimator this weekend with a standardish list and I am needing some help with sb. It's ub with splash for green in sb. There are alot of Landstill variants in this meta. My current sb is...

1 reverent silence
2 natures claim
2 show and tell
1 dryad arbor
1 realm razer
1 gilded drake
1 llanawan, cephalid empress
3 pithing needle
3 spell pierce

Sorry in advance I don't know how to make card tags.

[Kaslan]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/21746_New_Phyrexia_And_An_Old_Favorite_In_Legacy.html


what do you guys think of this build?

[Darklingske]

I don't know. Jin can really be backbreaking, but he still has to stay in play to do something. And the opponent still has a turn to answer him. Or am I missing something?

[Sturtzilla]

@jamied1981

My sideboard varies quite a bit from event to event depending what I expect to see. My build is just the traditional blue and black build. Right now I am running the following:

2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Pithing Needle
1 Darkblast
1 Animate Dead
3 Show and Tell
1 Wipe Away
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Triskelion
1 Terastodon

At one of the stores that I play at U/W Landstill is quite big. That being the case Darkblast and Triskelion are special slots for taking out Peacekeepers. The Mindbreak Traps also kinda serve as flex slots. At another store, the meta is nearly all aggro and countertop, so those come out for more Wipe Aways and Spell Pierces. I have been running the Show and Tells sideboard because they serve as another option to playing our fatties while circumventing their costs and without using the graveyard. It can make games 2 and 3 favorable even with an opponents graveyard hate.


@Kaslan

Thanks for linking that article. I enjoyed the read. I have two points to address here.

1: I would fundamentally disagree with the playing of 4 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. If you read the past few pages, you will see that this forum has been undecided on whether or not he will be the best reanimation target. My playtesting results have been favorable, but I would not bank on him as my only creature. The Reid Duke build relies on him with Iona and the Emperion as other means to win, but these are only one copies. My opinion would be to reduce the JGCA count to 2 or 3. This would open up some more flexibility in creatures you could run.

2: I am not sure if we have discussed it yet in this thread but I am considering running Mental Misstep over the Thoughtseizes in my build. As stated in the Duke article, it counters tons of cards that are relevant in this format. To list a few:

Goblin Lackey
Aether Vial
Cursecatcher
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile
Dispatch
Birds of Paradise
Duress
Thoughtseize
Inquisition of Kozilek
Brainstorm
Ponder
High Tide
Dark Ritual
Innocent Blood
Reanimate
Entomb
Sensei's Divining Top
Noble Hierarch
Figure of Destiny
Goblin Guide
Lightning Bolt
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Stifle

...and tons more... you get the idea. But this card is going to affect this format in a dramatic manner due to the speed of the format. Think of the mana curves in legacy decks and then think of how many cards you will be able to counter at the cost of two life or one blue mana in any build. I think MM is going to be great in this build not from just a creature protection standpoint. Sure, it will protect our dudes from swords, path, and innocent blood, but it will also give us the flexibility to proactively counter many other spells. I am planning on including it in my new list.

So overall I like the build but I would tweak it a little bit to my specific taste. I would love to hear others' opinions too. I hope this helps.


@Darklingske

You are quite right that he can be removed. However, if you have a counter or two, he will refill your hand (potentially binning more threats to reanimate) and then make your opponent discard to 0. So your full hand (it will most likely have counter magic and reanimation spells) versus your opponent in topdeck mode on turn 2 to 3? It sounds pretty good to me. But you are right you have to keep him alive. That would be another reason to run Mental Misstep. Like I said, I am not sure if I am sold on him yet but he does have promise.

[Hopo]

I think taking out Thoughtseize is a mistake. It acts as disruption, protection and a discard outlet. Mental Misstep is conditional disruption. I guess you could use it to counter a swords to plowshares sometimes, but I tend to think that if your game plan involves a single huge creature and self-inflicting 7-10 damage during the first two turns of the game, the one creature should be immune to spot removal anyway.

[Sturtzilla]

@Hopo

I have had the same reservations. However, the amount of time I use Thoughtseize to bin a creature has been very infrequent. And usually if you don't have and opening hand with Thoughtseize and an Exhume, Renaimate, or Animate Dead, it becomes far less valuable. You are right that it serves as disruption and protection. But Mental Misstep provides better protection in that it allows for you to tap out and still play defense. Playing MM would subtract a few discard outlets, but it allows for more control. I think it may come down to a player preference and how you want to play the deck. It is still too early to tell but the MMs might go in for something else in my build.