Rock Wood

[DragoFireheart]

This is an attempt of mine to fit Doran Rock into the Legacy format.

Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Chameleon Colossus
4 Doran, the Siege Tower
2 Eternal Witness
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Spiritmonger
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Treefolk Harbinger


Spells
2 Duress
4 Smother
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize


Enchantments
2 Pernicious Deed


Lands
4 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills


Sideboard (15 cards)
1 Duress
3 Extirpate
4 Krosan Grip
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Umezawa's Jitte


Currently, I need to get (but not necessarily add to the deck):

Main-deck:

+2 Eternal Witness
+2 Pernicious Deed
+1-2 Chameleon Colossus

Side-Board:

+1 Extirpate
+1 Duress

If you know what a Rock deck is you'll understand what this decks idea is: Get some powerful beats with removal/sweepers to control whats on the board.

Unlike other rock decks, this deck takes advantage of tribal themes. Treefolk Harbinger can find me a Chameleon, a Doran or a Bosk for color fixing. Doran turns my Treefolk into 3/3s for 1 mana. Chameleon is powerful enough to avoid most removal that normally can kill it and race a Goyf.

Spiritmonger is sort of a random 1 of that I am debating on changing to something else. Prehaps another Chameleon or a Shriekmaw or some other more useful creature.

Any suggestions are more than welcome.

[Brehn]

The dissynergy between Pernicious Deed and the rest of the deck is seriously hurting my eyes.

Other than that, the deck looks quite solid, but very mana-hungry. Without testing it, 9 Fetchlands seem way over the top. Also, why no Cabal Therapy? Shriekmaw is definitely worth an inclusion.

[DragoFireheart]

The dissynergy between Pernicious Deed and the rest of the deck is seriously hurting my eyes.

Other than that, the deck looks quite solid, but very mana-hungry. Without testing it, 9 Fetchlands seem way over the top. Also, why no Cabal Therapy? Shriekmaw is definitely worth an inclusion.

Maybe in place of Deeds I could run Crime/Punishments and/or EEs?


I run lots of fetch-lands to ensure I avoid color screw. How many fetch-lands should I run if 9 is too many??

[Cavius The Great]

Contagion would be nice considering you can pitch extra Dorans to it.

[greenmage]

reveillark instead of spiritmoner.
Spiritmonger is really just a fat dude, and reveillark has awesome synergie.

[mercenarybdu]

I'd cut the Jittes out of the SB for something else. But this is just a suggetion to make it a little better.

[DragoFireheart]

reveillark instead of spiritmoner.
Spiritmonger is really just a fat dude, and reveillark has awesome synergie.

Huh? reveillark? He won't bring back Chameleons/Goyfs. you know, though I suppose he'll bring back dorans and sometimes bring back Goyfs.


I'd cut the Jittes out of the SB for something else. But this is just a suggetion to make it a little better.

Hmmm.... Any suggestions on what to replace the Jittes with?

[kirdape3]

Treefolk Harbinger, goodbye. Spiritmonger, goodbye. Pernicious Deed, goodbye from the maindeck (sideboard is fine since you're the control in some matchups). Sakura-Tribe Elder, goodbye - you're a beatdown deck. Duress, goodbye - you'll want Therapy more often and you'll flash it back a lot more than you think.

That's 11 slots.

Hi, I'm Dark Confidant. In as a four-of - if he lives, you're not losing the game. Period.

Hi, I'm Cabal Therapy. In as a four-of, since you'll be able to flash it back with grim regularity.

Jitte and Profane Command round out the rest of the spots. Profane Command is actually the sickest if you can loop it off of a Witness.

[DragoFireheart]

Treefolk Harbinger, goodbye. Spiritmonger, goodbye. Pernicious Deed, goodbye from the maindeck (sideboard is fine since you're the control in some matchups). Sakura-Tribe Elder, goodbye - you're a beatdown deck. Duress, goodbye - you'll want Therapy more often and you'll flash it back a lot more than you think.

That's 11 slots.

Hi, I'm Dark Confidant. In as a four-of - if he lives, you're not losing the game. Period.

Hi, I'm Cabal Therapy. In as a four-of, since you'll be able to flash it back with grim regularity.

Jitte and Profane Command round out the rest of the spots. Profane Command is actually the sickest if you can loop it off of a Witness.

Wait, Treefolk Harbinger? Why would I get rid of my land/doran/chameleon tutor?

I could see Monger going.

I could see Deed in the board.

Sakura-Tribe Elder? Really? He gives me mana and thins my deck. Hmmm...

Duress!?!?! I suppose I could get Therpy in place of it, though I'm lazy at naming cards. :tongue:

I find the simplicity of Duress to be more of my style. It is a tough call.

Dark Confidant would be nice. Really nice in fact. He'd have such a huge cross-hair on him all the time, lol.

I got jittes, playing around with them. How many slots?

Profane Command? Isn't that a bit... slow?

Also, why no EEs or Crime/Punishments to kill annoying enchantments/artifacts and/or act as sweepers?

[Brehn]

Treefolk Harbinger, goodbye. Spiritmonger, goodbye. Pernicious Deed, goodbye from the maindeck (sideboard is fine since you're the control in some matchups). Sakura-Tribe Elder, goodbye - you're a beatdown deck. Duress, goodbye - you'll want Therapy more often and you'll flash it back a lot more than you think.

That's 11 slots.

Hi, I'm Dark Confidant. In as a four-of - if he lives, you're not losing the game. Period.

Hi, I'm Cabal Therapy. In as a four-of, since you'll be able to flash it back with grim regularity.

Jitte and Profane Command round out the rest of the spots. Profane Command is actually the sickest if you can loop it off of a Witness.

Hi, I'm an Extended deck with my Shockies replaced by Duals and my Vindicates replaced by Swords. Could you please tell me why I should be viable?

[DragoFireheart]

The reason I am not running Cabal Therapies is because I enjoy the quick-n-easy use that duress provides me. I understand that Therapies can nab cards but it requires set up, and I don't like the idea of blind therapies to be quite honest.

[Nihil Credo]

The reason I am not running Cabal Therapies is because I enjoy the quick-n-easy use that duress provides me.
I apologize in advance for this, but I can't help but read that as "I don't know much about the format and/or I'm bad at reading my opponent".

[DragoFireheart]

I apologize in advance for this, but I can't help but read that as "I don't know much about the format and/or I'm bad at reading my opponent".

I'm bad at reading opponents at times, though most of the time I'm pretty good at reading them.

My local format is under-developed and/or random at times. Cabal, in my case, would be just a wasted card more often than not. That's the big reason that's holding me back from using Cabals.

Do you understand where I am coming from?

[kirdape3]

I prefer to play with better cards. Treefolk Harbinger simply isn't that good, even though it can block Goblin Lackey.

Cabal Therapy is the right card simply because you're going to be in situations where it's obvious what to name and what not to name. Duress half the time isn't going to take care of the problem. The only deck where it's fatal to whiff on a Therapy once is combo, which is a small part of what you're likely to face.

As for the viability of this deck, Extended's of a similar power level in creatures and better spells. That's how this deck would work here - you just put the better spells in and go nuts. I'm not saying it's good (since basically the format is Threshold or decks that beat Threshold), but it has to be better than Treefolk Harbinger.

[DragoFireheart]

I prefer to play with better cards. Treefolk Harbinger simply isn't that good, even though it can block Goblin Lackey.

Cabal Therapy is the right card simply because you're going to be in situations where it's obvious what to name and what not to name. Duress half the time isn't going to take care of the problem. The only deck where it's fatal to whiff on a Therapy once is combo, which is a small part of what you're likely to face.

As for the viability of this deck, Extended's of a similar power level in creatures and better spells. That's how this deck would work here - you just put the better spells in and go nuts. I'm not saying it's good (since basically the format is Threshold or decks that beat Threshold), but it has to be better than Treefolk Harbinger.

Got a suggestion for a better one drop to replace Harbinger? [Other than therapy]

[thefreakaccident]

If you want to play a BGW deck in legacy, play Funkbrew.... it is designed with an eastern meta and a random meta in mind... BWG will never get a better deck.

[DragoFireheart]

If you want to play a BGW deck in legacy, play Funkbrew.... it is designed with an eastern meta and a random meta in mind... BWG will never get a better deck.

That really doesn't tell me anything. I looked at the deck but it seems a bit mana intensive for a lack of mana accel.

[Media314r8]

That really doesn't tell me anything. I looked at the deck but it seems a bit mana intensive for a lack of mana accel.

This is most likely due to the fact that:

4 BoP + 4 Tree Harbinger + Deed = Not a combo.

Sakura Tribe elder is hideously slow, and I personally prefer to pay 1G for a 5/6, not a 1/1 that rampant growths after chump-blocking.

For the record: Therapy >>> Duress, and in a deck that can support it, obviously Hymn >>> Duress. Please replace duress with playskill or knowledge of your meta, even if it is terrible, therapy works is most every legacy format where people didn't just bring their EDH deck. Therapy also would allow you a means to make use of your birds/trees before you deed.

[DragoFireheart]

This is most likely due to the fact that:

4 BoP + 4 Tree Harbinger + Deed = Not a combo.

What are some nice sweepers than? Crime/Punishment and/or EE?


Sakura Tribe elder is hideously slow, and I personally prefer to pay 1G for a 5/6, not a 1/1 that rampant growths after chump-blocking.

What should I put in place of the elder then?


For the record: Therapy >>> Duress, and in a deck that can support it, obviously Hymn >>> Duress. Please replace duress with playskill or knowledge of your meta, even if it is terrible, therapy works is most every legacy format where people didn't just bring their EDH deck. Therapy also would allow you a means to make use of your birds/trees before you deed.

I'll see if I can get some therapies. For now I use Duress though.

Could you recommend a modified deck list to me?

[kirdape3]

Don't play sweepers in the maindeck. You're an attack deck, and you'd only be the control really in the Goblins matchup, where there are more efficient sweepers anyway.

[DragoFireheart]

Don't play sweepers in the maindeck. You're an attack deck, and you'd only be the control really in the Goblins matchup, where there are more efficient sweepers anyway.

Hmm, what can I main-deck to deal with Art...

Wait, should/could I use Vindicates main-decked and have a couple in the side? Ya know, another creature kill that happens to be able to BLOW UP anything else?

Also, I don't know why Treefolk Harbinger would be a bad card. It blocks first turn lackeys [as you stated] and it fetches me any land I may need for color fix or get me a creature of my choice. [Doran, Chameleon].

Also, what do you think about adding a couple Wall of Blossoms into my deck?

[Dark_Cynic87]

I can't really see Vindicate being better than just a few Krosan Grips. You don't have any other land-hate (why no wastes?), so that won't really ever come in handy. You need to be able to respond to things like Blood Moon. You have the Smothers/swords for responses to magus of the moon, but you flop to the enchantment. I mention this because Dragon Stompy is becoming more and more popular. And more of a problem. Also, it can stop countertop, eot a Chalice/3sphere, stops Deeds and etc. It's good in a Stax matchup, but this is where you would side in Deeds as well.

I would run Confidants. I hate playing against them. They are very synergistic with Therapy, they give really good card advantage, and can be aggressive in a pinch, especially against a lesser-skilled opponent (people say not to plan to run into lousy players, but it happens).

I would actually run 4/2 ratio of Therapy/Duress. Fetches plus Seizes and if you decide to go this route, Bobs, will hurt too much for you to live.

Some of this may be wrong, but it's the thought that counts...

--DC

[DragoFireheart]

That was the other reason I wasn't running Confidents atm. Between the fetches and the seizes my life total is at a premium as it is.

Should I test out main-deck Gaddock Teeg?

[DragoFireheart]

Update: 17 Feb 2008

Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Chameleon Colossus
4 Doran, the Siege Tower
3 Eternal Witness
2 Unearth
1 Spiritmonger
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice


Spells
2 Duress
4 Putrify
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize


Enchantments
2 Pernicious Deed


Lands
4 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills


Sideboard (15 cards)
1 Duress
2 Engineered Plague
3 Krosan Grip
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Loxodon Hierarch
2 Umezawa's Jitte