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Cavius The Great
02-13-2008, 03:49 PM
This is a deck I've thought about building among my numerous projects which I plan on pursuing. Let me know if you guys think this is worth building. I have like four project decks that I'm debating whether to sink money into or not and this is one of them. The idea isn't completely original but It's original enough to have "Cavius" before the deck's name title. :wink: Here's the list.

Land:25
4 Bayou
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
4 Lake of the Dead
7 Swamp

Spells:35
4 Eladamri's Vineyard
4 Exploration
3 Death Cloud
4 Mind Shatter
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Cursed Scroll
4 The Rack
3 Damnation

Sideboard:15
4 Krosan Grip
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Cranial Extraction

The deck is basically B/G Discard with excelleration such as Vineyards, Explorations and Lakes of the Dead to accellerate Mind Shatter and Death Cloud. My win cons, Cursed Scroll, vineyards and The rack, are both uneffected by Death Cloud which is why I chose to run them. The SB is dedicated to combat combo and control while the MD takes care of aggro. I'm not sure if this deck is worth building or not so I would like some input on whether you guys think this deck has promise. Let me know what you guys think, Peace.

EDIT: Most recent list 2/13/08

Land:24
4 Bayou
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Swamp
5 Forest

Spells:36
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Exploration
4 Eladamri's Vineyard
3 Dark Ritual
3 Mind Shatter
3 Cyclone
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Death Cloud
2 Cursed Scroll

Sideboard:15
4 Innocent Blood
3 Ghastly Demise
4 Krosan Grip
4 Cranial Extraction

mujadaddy
02-13-2008, 03:56 PM
Isn't Death Cloud strictly inferior to Pox, much less Small Pox? Instead of eating up slots with accelleration for your X spells, why not ... gosh, I don't know, something else? Three Hymns but FOUR Mind Shatter?

Short answer is "Lake of the Dead????"

Sanguine Voyeur
02-13-2008, 04:03 PM
Isn't Death Cloud strictly inferior to Pox, much less Small Pox?Pox and Dethkloud serve different roles. Pox is disruption that weakens your opponent in every way. Death Cloud wipes away your opponent's board while leaving you with something. It can easily leave you with just enough of an edge to seal the game.

Brehn
02-13-2008, 04:06 PM
I love how you're running land destruction (Death Cloud) and Eladamri's Vineyard in the same deck. And I thought the synergy between Tarmogoyf and Pernicious Deed was bad.....
You cloud him for X, destroy all his lands. He topdecks a Goyf and plays it. WTF?

Just play Consume Spirit or something.... won't be good still, I guess.

Cavius The Great
02-13-2008, 04:11 PM
Isn't Death Cloud strictly inferior to Pox, much less Small Pox? Instead of eating up slots with accelleration for your X spells, why not ... gosh, I don't know, something else? Three Hymns but FOUR Mind Shatter?

Short answer is "Lake of the Dead????"

Three Hymns becuase of Vineyards. I need X-spells to take advantage of vineyards and Mind Shatter seemed like the perfect card becuase It's usually a Hymn or better. And Death Cloud can clear the board of pretty much everything which Pox fails to do. I'm not saying Death Cloud is better, but like Sanguine said, they serve different roles. Just as a note, Mind Shatter empties your opponent's hand so that they take burn from the vineyards and vineyards makes it able to cast Mind Shatter. They work so well together. :wink:


I love how you're running land destruction (Death Cloud) and Eladamri's Vineyard in the same deck. And I thought the synergy between Tarmogoyf and Pernicious Deed was bad.....
You cloud him for X, destroy all his lands. He topdecks a Goyf and plays it. WTF?

Just play Consume Spirit or something.... won't be good still, I guess.

Thanx for pointing that out. Goyf would pose a problem. Maybe Ensnaring Bridge might help?

MasterC
02-13-2008, 04:15 PM
I recently saw an Extended Deck that played Garruk along with Death Cloud. Great Synergy!

mujadaddy
02-13-2008, 04:31 PM
I need X-spells to take advantage of vineyardsThat seems like circular logic.

and Mind Shatter seemed like the perfect card becuase It's usually a Hymn or better.It's a Hymn for ONE CARD +:1: ... then it scales up. It's :b::b::2: to equal a Hymn.

Have you actually tried to play this deck? Seriously, I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm asking how your matchups have been.


Pox and Dethkloud serve different roles. Pox is disruption that weakens your opponent in every way. Death Cloud wipes away your opponent's board while leaving you with something. It can easily leave you with just enough of an edge to seal the game.
Umm... DethKlodd is just as symmetric as Pox; it just uses whole numbers instead of fractions. The difference in play is just that Pox penalizes a player for having more stuff, while with DethKlodd, the player is penalized for having fewer things.

Cavius The Great
02-13-2008, 04:35 PM
That seems like circular logic.
It's a Hymn for ONE CARD +:1: ... then it scales up. It's :b::b::2: to equal a Hymn.

Have you actually tried to play this deck? Seriously, I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm asking how your matchups have been.


Umm... DethKlodd is just as symmetric as Pox; it just uses whole numbers instead of fractions. The difference in play is just that Pox penalizes a player for having more stuff, while with DethKlodd, the player is penalized for having fewer things.

This is just an idea. I haven't tested it against anything and it's raw as a list can get. All I'm asking is if you guys think it has potential to be developed further. That's all I ask.

And it's the same as a Hymn with a vineyard in play. That's the point I was trying to make. A hymn or better basically.

mujadaddy
02-13-2008, 04:40 PM
This is just an idea. I haven't tested it against anything and it's raw as a list can get. All I'm asking is if you guys think it has potential to be developed further. That's all I ask.K, get me on record as saying, "Needs work" or even "No."


And it's the same as a Hymn with a vineyard in play. That's the point I was trying to make. A hymn or better basically.:eek: ...just run Cyclone as a kill condition.

Media314r8
02-13-2008, 04:46 PM
All I'm asking is if you guys think it has potential to be developed further.

No.

Seriously though, the deck has far too many discard spells and no instant-speed discard. Damnation and Death cloud are the only ways I can see to kill any topdecked goyfs/threats, and they do not have synergy with each other. The whole time I was looking at the list, I was searching for some kind of crucible/LTfL... but there really isnt much/any way to break the symerty of these spells,a nd you play a lot of Card disadvantage spells like Exploration, Vineyard, and Lake of the dead, with only symetrical spells... doesnt seem like a recipe for sucess.

I see this deck completly emptying each player's hand and clearing the board within the first four turns... but I don't see this deck reuilding, and a topdecked land+goose or a goyf+vineyard would probably be enough to kill you after you make a new game with each player starting with no hand.

Cavius The Great
02-13-2008, 04:48 PM
K, get me on record as saying, "Needs work" or even "No."

:eek: ...just run Cyclone as a kill condition.

Cyclone and Ensnaring Bridge might make this deck a tad bit better. If you don't mind I would like to continue to develop this deck further. You're coming up with some cool ideas. :wink:

mujadaddy
02-13-2008, 04:55 PM
If you don't mind I would like to continue to develop this deck further. You can do whatever you like, of course.

I'd trade those explorations for Land Grants, though. Ensnaring Bridge isn't a terrible idea.

Sanguine Voyeur
02-13-2008, 05:03 PM
Umm... DethKlodd is just as symmetric as Pox; it just uses whole numbers instead of fractions. The difference in play is just that Pox penalizes a player for having more stuff, while with DethKlodd, the player is penalized for having fewer things.What I mean is that you can Cloud for a little less then all you have [hopefully equal to what your opponent has] and be left with lands to cast things. Exploration makes this easier in terms of land in play.

Death Cloud is to Pox as Devestating Dreams is to Armageddon.

Kind of.

Cavius The Great
02-13-2008, 05:09 PM
Here's a list I just came up with that incorporates Cyclone. This list might be a bit better.

Land:24
4 Bayou
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Swamp
5 Forest

Spells:36
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Exploration
4 Eladamri's Vineyard
3 Dark Ritual
3 Mind Shatter
3 Cyclone
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Death Cloud
2 Cursed Scroll

This decklist incorporates Crucible recursion as well as a wasteland lock. I also cut the Lakes and extra swamps and ran more Forest to help improve the mana for Cyclone. This decklist has it's rough edges but much improved upon, wouldn't you say? Let me know what you guys think. And much love to Mujadaddy for making cool suggestions. :smile:

Tosh
02-13-2008, 05:17 PM
Cyclone is symmertrical as well as Death Cloud. So far, with all of your win cons being symmertrical (besides the 2x C. Scroll), I'm concerned that you'd lose if they got a creature through or two.

Cavius The Great
02-13-2008, 05:25 PM
Cyclone is symmertrical as well as Death Cloud. So far, with all of your win cons being symmertrical (besides the 2x C. Scroll), I'm concerned that you'd lose if they got a creature through or two.

Ensnaring Bridge?

mujadaddy
02-13-2008, 05:27 PM
You dumped the Rack? Hmm... I don't like that :laugh:

If you swap Explorations with Land Grant, you can trim .... the Wooded foothills(?)... and run 21 or 22 land instead. Without Life from the Loam, you don't REALLY need Explorations, and Land Grant is a FAR superior topdeck.

mujadaddy
02-13-2008, 05:29 PM
Ensnaring Bridge?

Ensnaring Bridge + Cursed Scroll is dis-synergy. Cursed scroll requires you to have a card in your hand; Ensnaring Bridge loves Hellbent. It could be worse, though. (I'm just not a fan of Cursed Scroll -- but you seem to run enough mana to run it)...

Tosh
02-13-2008, 05:31 PM
Ensnaring Bridge?
Costs 3 mana and Nimble Mongoose costs 1. Ensnaring Bridge really only works after a Death Cloud or Mind Shatter. In the case of the later, they could get a swing or two in with a Goyf.

Cavius The Great
02-13-2008, 05:31 PM
You dumped the Rack? Hmm... I don't like that :laugh:

If you swap Explorations with Land Grant, you can trim .... the Wooded foothills(?)... and run 21 or 22 land instead. Without Life from the Loam, you don't REALLY need Explorations, and Land Grant is a FAR superior topdeck.

It was either The rack or cursed scroll and I chose the scroll. And I don't know about you, but I like the explorations becuase of wasteland/fetch/crucible. and last time I checked Crucible is pretty darn decent with Death Cloud. :wink:


Costs 3 mana and Nimble Mongoose costs 1. Ensnaring Bridge really only works after a Death Cloud or Mind Shatter. In the case of the later, they could get a swing or two in with a Goyf.


I'm running more discard than that, friend. You're forgetting about the 8 seizes/hymns.


Ensnaring Bridge + Cursed Scroll is dis-synergy. Cursed scroll requires you to have a card in your hand; Ensnaring Bridge loves Hellbent. It could be worse, though. (I'm just not a fan of Cursed Scroll -- but you seem to run enough mana to run it)...

That's why you activate the scroll before you empty your hand each turn.

mujadaddy
02-13-2008, 05:32 PM
It was either The rack or cursed scroll and I chose the scroll. And I don't know about you, but I like the explorations becuase of wasteland/fetch/crucible. :wink:

D'oh. Forgot about the Crucible with respect to Exploration.

Cavius The Great
02-13-2008, 05:47 PM
So mujadaddy, what's the status on the deck. Worth building yet? Or needs more work? You've been awesome so far as far as suggestions go. :smile:

mujadaddy
02-13-2008, 05:52 PM
So mujadaddy, what's the status on the deck. Worth building yet? Or needs more work? You've been awesome so far as far as suggestions go. :smile:

It's certainly better.... Here's what you should do. Build it in MWS, then play against a Relentless Rats deck as long as you can stand.

...not just ANY Relentless rats deck, though--a hypothetical one, with a god-hand every time:

2 Rats, 2 dark rituals & 3 swamps on the draw, then a stacked deck with Rat, Rat, Swamp down to infinity...

If you can beat that consistently on the play, you might have something worth improving!

xsockmonkeyx
02-13-2008, 06:33 PM
Cait Sith made this deck with a LftL engine to offset Death Cloud. Seemed to work pretty good but I dont know what became of it.

EDIT: I lied. Turns out he build it around a different card. Mea culpa

Media314r8
02-13-2008, 07:19 PM
Here's what I've been testing:

// Lands
4 [UNH] Swamp
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
2 [TE] Wasteland
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
2 [UNH] Forest
4 [B] Bayou
4 [ON] Windswept Heath

// Creatures
4 [WL] Veteran Explorer
3 [FD] Eternal Witness

// Spells
3 [LRW] Profane Command
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (1)
3 [DS] Death Cloud
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [TE] Eladamri's Vineyard
4 [US] Exploration
3 [10E] Crucible of Worlds

Card choices:
Explorer vs dark rit: Explorer powers you into death clouds, while usually pulling out all (if any) basics out of your opponents deck, ensuring that if death cloud is big enough, all their basics will be gone leaving wastelock as a not-lose-con. Veteran also works very well with therapy, allowing for a therapy, flashback, hymn turn two.

Profane Command vs Mind Twist: Often, you have your infinite lands/mana late game rather than early game, making MS a worse hymn most of the time, and often useless in the late game once you have the mana, as you've clouded or your opponent has simply played out their hand. Command has ridiculous synergy with witness, who is a tank in this deck, as she gets back death clouds, commands, ect.

Mishra's Factory: A wincon that survives Death cloud and recurs with crucible, can be used to flashback therapy under crucible, (hilarious) and holds the fort down until you are ready to start wrecking the shit. Factory also breaks the hell out of vineyard, I promise you'll never mana burn again with this fella in play.

Only 2 Wastelands!?!? Yes I'm running as many canopies as wastes, but canopy provides G and draws cards, whereas early-game wastes look sadly at explorer and feel that they will probably just be tapping for colorless until a death cloud shows up.

Therapy: turn one plays are tech, breaking explorer is fine too, and did I mention having turn one plays is tech?




I played with the list on MWS for a total of six games, winning 4 and losing two. Here's how it went down:

Game 1: mull to six, by turn 4, exploration, crucible, factory, and wasteland with therapy flashed-back using a factory worker, which I then replayed with crucible.

1-0

Game 2: turn one therapy, turn two hymn, turn three crucible. (with crucible #2 in hand.. but I was playing vs a non-blue deck) By turn four, I have exploration, wastelock, and horizon canopy in play.

2-0

Game 3: Turn one Thoughtseize, turn two hymn, turn three explorer. (blocking warchief) Turn four factory, profane command killing 'chief and getting back explorer. (explorer blocks ringleader, and Rgb gobs player fails to find more basics) Turn 5 death cloud for 5, with two factories in play.

3-0

Game 4: mull to 6. Turn one vineyard. Turn two explorer, exploration, Hymn. Turn four play heath. (hellbent) Turns 4-7 draw lands and burn for 2 a turn via vineyard. Sad Panda. Couldn't find business or factory.

ProTip: Explorer + Wasteland = Not a combo, went from 3/3 waste/factory split to 2/4 split for better vineyard abuse, as wella s the fact that waste is really oly good late-game after a cloud.

3-1

Game 5: mull into oblivion (4) and keep a hand of explorer, bayou, 2 wastelands. He plays a basic, pases turn I draw another lands, play waste. He fetches, plays goyf. I have to block with explorer eventually and his goyf goes the distance as I only draw discard.

3-2

Game 6: Turn one bayou, explorer. Turn two heath, therapy (with flashback, fetching two swamps) Hymn, crack fetch for bayou to play explorer #2 with death could in hand. Turn three factory, play death cloud for two. (opponnt fails to find additional basics, sacs basic keeping GU and UR duals) Turn 4 wasteland his UR, swing with factory. Turn 5 Topdeck crucible for ultra-win-more.




All in all, a fun deck to play with, and so any isnane plays that caused my opponents to scoop em up. Vineyard defiantly felt like the weakest link, and I often found myself wishing there was more land in the deck. It felt like 43 land kind of, but with more actual winning and less starring.

Possible changes I'd make: -4 vineyard, +1 crucible, +1 waste, +1 horizon canopy, +1 Volrath's stronghold (to recur witness)

Cavius The Great
02-13-2008, 08:04 PM
Interesting list Media. On another note, does anyone have any thoughts on Haunting Echoes? It seems like it would greatly compliment the discard in the deck as well as add to the deck's limited number of win cons. It can also be easily cast off of vineyards and such which is always nice.

I would like to also note, Mox Diamond is really good with Death Cloud.

Cranial Extraction is a must.

And it's a toss up between The Rack and Cursed Scroll, as far as my list goes.

Barook
02-13-2008, 09:21 PM
Media's list seems far more interesting. I've already witnessed the insanity of Witness and Command together in Extended.

But my question is: Where is your reason to play green? Where is Tarmogoyf?

3 Death Clouds MD (+Witness), especially with no way to tutor for it, Command recursion and the possible inclusion of Stronghold, can't really justify to its absence. Loads of discard to feed it should make your Goyfs quite big in reasonable time.

mujadaddy
02-13-2008, 10:58 PM
Where is Tarmogoyf?I'm just glad I didn't say it first.

Media314r8
02-13-2008, 11:26 PM
@ Goyf: (facepalm.jpg)

The green in the deck is for accel and recursion (witness) Both she and explorer live simply to chump-block/die to therapy flashback. This deck plans on blowing up the world on a regular basis to establish control, adding creatures that win through attacking defeats the purpose of deathcloud, and it's a different deck at that point.

simply put: winning through attacking with guys + death cloud = not a combo.

CynicalSquirrel
02-14-2008, 12:47 AM
I recently saw an Extended Deck that played Garruk along with Death Cloud. Great Synergy!
I'm surprised nobody has acknowledged this. I was just looking over some Extended lists and noticed Garruk, and to me it seems like the biggest reason to play Death Cloud in the first place. It works as acceleration into the Cloud then of course lets you recover easily afterwards by churning out elephants.

Have any of you guys tested the card, and if so why isn't it included?

mercenarybdu
02-14-2008, 02:59 AM
I have never seen a prototype like this one before but if you keep up your efforts it just might make it like the few that have.

Waikiki
02-14-2008, 04:44 AM
I just made a build that plays mostly like the rock with alot of discard then sweep everything clean after I land a garruk and go all the way.

First testgame was against 4c ***** which I won 2-0

Barook
02-14-2008, 07:29 AM
Tarmogoyf? In my Death Cloud deck? It's more likely than you think! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mf185)

I said it before and I'll say it again:

A few copies of Death Cloud are no reason not to run Tarmogoyf, especially with the given recursion. Back-up plans are always good - and heavy discard + Tarmogoyf sounds like a good one to me.

Edit: Some food for thought: I toyed around with Golgari Rot Farm during Goldfishing. Sure, it's kinda risky with Wasteland around, but it's also drop-dead-sexy with Exploration, leaves you with a better mana supply after a Cloud if you don't kill all your lands and fixes your mana, too. I liked it so far.

Banelich
02-14-2008, 07:50 PM
Goyf...Goyf...Goyf...Goyf...Goyf...Goyf...Goyf...Goyf...


oh how I miss the sweet glory days when there weren't auto-includes to every deck...

.....but I think the goyf would go nice in the deck(sigh).

other possible routes / backup plans ....

Nether Spirit (bad synergy with Vets in deck)
Guardian Idol
Chimeric Idol

EDIT:

Guardians have great synergy with clouds and vineyards, suggested as a 3 of.

Nether Spirits....debateable at best - not as good unless you add skeletal scrying which requires turning some discard 4 of's into 3 of's. and - 1 cruc and such or ditching vets which is an even worse idea.

Chimerics....good but not good enough to warrant openning slots for.

ok...that was my 2 cents...I'll STFU now.

Cavius The Great
02-15-2008, 11:49 AM
How are guardians better than Cursed Scroll?

mujadaddy
02-15-2008, 11:51 AM
How are guardians better than Cursed Scroll?

Off the top of my head, you don't need a card in hand to activate the Guardians.

Cavius The Great
02-15-2008, 11:57 AM
Off the top of my head, you don't need a card in hand to activate the Guardians.

Cursed Scroll is just a better overall card though. It's creature kill and a win con all in one. And the one card in hand is usually irrelevent. You can basically say that about any deck running Scroll but people still use it. I also like the fact that Cursed Scroll can't be hit by creature kill while Guardian Idol can. Scroll is much more resilient and superior in all respects.

mujadaddy
02-15-2008, 12:10 PM
Cursed Scroll is just a better overall card though. It's creature kill and a win con all in one. And the one card in hand is usually irrelevent. You can basically say that about any deck running Scroll but people still use it. I also like the fact that Cursed Scroll can't be hit by creature kill while Guardian Idol can. Scroll is much more resilient and superior in all respects.Not in all respects.

You can tap the Guardian for :1: .
You have to reveal what the card in your hand is with the Scroll.
The Guardian is :1: cheaper to cast.
The Guardian is :1: cheaper to activate for the same 2 damage (yes, you have to swing with it, but you run Death Cloud).

Frankly, Chimeric Idol has better synergy with Death Cloud, because you can tap out for DC, THEN swing with the Chimeric Idol. It's also superior to Scroll, imo, because you can D/C for 3 MORE mana that you'd otherwise be using to activate the scroll.

It's cheesy, but have you considered Magma Mine?

Cavius The Great
02-15-2008, 05:15 PM
Magma Mine is horrible. And Cursed Scroll actually cost 1 less to cast, not one more. It's a 1cc artifact. It takes 3 to activate though.

On the topic of Cursed Scroll, I remember seeing Korean misprints with a 2 mana activation cost. I'm not sure how much those are going for now (price-wise) but I assume errata prevents you from using them. Interesting to note nevertheless. I'm sure people have used them to cheat in the past. I find that quite fascinating. Let me know if you guy have heard of those misprints.

Banelich
02-15-2008, 10:59 PM
hmmm....

I find the assumption interesting that its either guardians or scrolls for a specific MD slot. The thought of cutting out scrolls didn't even occur to me, but I've never liked scrolls as a 2 or 3 of in any deck that has even the possiblity of adding drawing power.

I was goldfishing lastnight with 3x guardians, 1x scroll, 3x vineyards, 2x cruc's, a slightly smaller discard package, and more draw power, i.e. experimenting with the number of profane, witness and such to include 2 to 3 copies of nights whisper, phyrexian arena or skeletal scrying. Whisper seems to go the fastest especially as a 3 of with 3 witnesses, though dangerously painful, scrying about the same, arena is more vunerable and slower.

Cavius The Great
02-16-2008, 01:31 PM
hmmm....

I find the assumption interesting that its either guardians or scrolls for a specific MD slot. The thought of cutting out scrolls didn't even occur to me, but I've never liked scrolls as a 2 or 3 of in any deck that has even the possiblity of adding drawing power.

I was goldfishing lastnight with 3x guardians, 1x scroll, 3x vineyards, 2x cruc's, a slightly smaller discard package, and more draw power, i.e. experimenting with the number of profane, witness and such to include 2 to 3 copies of nights whisper, phyrexian arena or skeletal scrying. Whisper seems to go the fastest especially as a 3 of with 3 witnesses, though dangerously painful, scrying about the same, arena is more vunerable and slower.

What was your exact list? And did you run Cyclone? What did you test against?

Banelich
02-16-2008, 05:56 PM
There was no exact list, aside from the numbers listed as you quoted.

As I mentioned, was "goldfishing / experimenting with number of ...."

was mostly using a variant of media's list, below is one of many examples, of jank I was trying with mixed results against standard netdeck crap on MWS which I played about 11 games (not all matches) total so far. other cards I've tried are mentioned in past post, have tried with and without; vets, profane ect, didn't try cyclones though.

5 Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Forest
3 Bayou
3 Windswept Heath

2 Veteran Explorer
3 Guardian Idol
3 Eternal Witness


3 Night's Whisper
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Death Cloud
3 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Eladamri's Vineyard
4 Exploration
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 cursed scroll



wouldn't call this a finished breed either, just what I had when I stopped playing and went to sleep.

Cavius The Great
02-17-2008, 11:23 AM
One thing I do like about guardian idol is that it provides mana after a Death Cloud. That's something I originally overlooked and worth noting.

The list looks fine. two veteran explorers looks kind of random though. And is there any reason you're not running 4 bayou?

Peter_Rotten
04-30-2009, 05:43 PM
So why is this not in the DTB forum?

Scrabble
04-30-2009, 06:07 PM
So why is this not in the DTB forum?

I saw it there for a while, but something about Cavius' copyrights and licensing details made them take it down.

TheDarkshineKnight
05-01-2009, 01:34 AM
Oh, lord. Is it official Cavius day today or something? I forgot what day that was. :(