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raharu
02-15-2008, 08:44 PM
I recently was reminded of the type 2 2002 World Championship deck, and I’m fairly sure, after playing the exact type 2 list against the “Budget thresh” list (which is actually quite amazing, it‘s basically “powered threshold” without the duals and fetches, which helps solidify the manabase in all actuality), that with a few tweaks this concept could be a viable deck, and possible a force in the metagame.

LIST:

“The Kill”: 10
Hoofprints of the Stag x3
Psychatog x4
Upheaval x3

Hand Manipulation: 10
Sensei’s Divining Top x3
Brainstorm x4
Meditate x3

Hand Control: 12
Thoughtseize x4
Counterspell x4
Force of Will x4

Board Control: 7
Swords to Plowshares x4
Damnation x3

Mana: 21
Polluted Delta x3
Flooded Strand x3
Underground Sea x3
Tundra x3
Island x3
Swamp x2
Plains x1
Chrome Mox x3

It may seem a little mana light, but it should be quite fine (hypothesis, not drawn from testing). Chrome Mox allows me to have Counterspell backup in addition to Force of Will for my Psychatogs played from floated mana, in addition to accelerating the ‘Tog win (by allowing me to “go off” on turn 6 and kill turn 7). In the beginning I wanted to keep some number Circular Logics in the list for more post ‘Heave protection, but upon further review I saw it was not needed. Thoughtseize preemptively throws off removal, amongst other things I don’t want to give a chance to resolve. It’s a nice accent to the disruption suite and serves as decent bait for counter magic before un Upheaval.

Meditate is fairly good in it’s own right, and it has good synergy with Hoofprints of the Stag, which Fact or Fiction does not. The same is true for Brainstorm over other cantrips. Sensei’s Broken Topdeck enabler is too good not to have, especially in a deck packing Hoofprints as a win condition.

The removal package is fairly standard, with Swords being the best spot removal, and Damnation being a good sweeper that can be easily accelerated into play on turn three with a Chrome Mox (although Echoing Truth is the better option, either in the board or MD, for EtW/ Bridge tokens).

I initially wanted Tombstalker at the secondary finisher, but I wanted to splash White for the superior removal of Swords to Plowshares, and I could not logically justify splashing for 4 slots, so I decided on using Hoofprints instead. Both Tombstalker and Hoofprints have synergy with drawing cards (Tombstalker‘s synergy is the indirect synergy of drawing more cards meaning playing more of cards). Tombstalker may possible beat out Hoofprints for the secondary finisher (obviously reverting back to UB with something possible replacing Meditate) as it comes down faster after an Upheaval , but for the moment, Hoofprints is in the list.

The reasoning for using Upheaval over a Dredge engine or something of the like is simply because Psychatog gets fairly big on it’s own at least two of three times. Considering that becoming a 5/6 one time is generally enough to keep Tarmogoyf at bay, using Upheaval for the big swing over Wonder + Dredge seems quite the logical option to me, especially when it reduces graveyard dependency (another reason I avoided Tombstalker in the original list) and you have the option to accelerate the kill with Chrome Mox (considering that is get bounced by Upheaval, so you can use it twice, once to pay for Upheaval, and yet again after Upheaval resolves and it is replayed untapped). I’m all in favor of a control deck that swings for lethal damage on turn 7, but also has plans for the long game. Psychatog just becomes better and better as the game progresses, and benefits from graveyard growth without being graveyard centric.

Example: you have just gotten to a point where ‘ Heaving into a ‘Tog sounds like a good idea. Your graveyard is fat, you have a well crafted hand, and life is good. There’s just one problem: it’s game two and they have been sitting on a Tormod’s Crypt for the past 3 turns. You have 7 lands and a Chrome Mox in play and a hand of 4, one of which is Meditate. Play Upheaval. You ‘Heave, they break Crypt in response, and you have no yard. Play Psychatog off of the floated mana, play your land for the turn, and discard lands back to 7. Deal with removal as needed, draw a card. If you used Force of Will on the removal, you have 5 cards in hand and a card in the graveyard now. Play Meditate (+3 cards in hand, putting you at 8 cards), remove 2 (Meditate and Force of Will), discard 8, remove 8, and swing with a 14/15 atog. Considering Hoofprints damage and/ or fetch lands, you just won or are about to win the game (on a side note, discarding everything isn‘t needed for a large ‘Tog. Pitch 5 cards, which leaves you with 3 protection spells ideally, and you still get a 8/9, which is still relevant damage considering you had no ‘yard to start with). Of course, you have the ‘Tog beats + 4/4 flying elementals forever and ever amen, but this is all to show that Upheaval > Psychatog is still a solid plan in the face of Crypt.

Concerns: The enchantress match is a little awkward. You play Upheaval, and they play Forest > Exploration > Savannah > Utopia Sprawl, go, generally with some Elephant Grass in the mix, to sometimes they just go Forest > Grass, go, and you are pretty much left with not much to do but sit and cry. There are ways to avoid this, but the Enchantress match just gets weird at times, and you really don’t want to play Upheaval as a mass tempo board reset against them, because they come out way ahead.

Upheaval and Damnation are good board resets and Tempo/ CA generators in general, but I do wonder if there are other good accents. I have yet to find any, but it never hurts to ask the question. Possible Sideboarded Chains of Vapor?

Questions to spark discussion:

1) Is the white splash worth it?

2) Are there better mass card draw options outside of Meditate? If so, what?

3) Is there any room for a wishboard? I personally am not the best at crafting wishboards, but I presume 3x Cunning Wish MD, with some number of Haunting Echoes, Wipe Aways, other things that elude me at this time, and probably 4x Stifle and Extirpate would be in the side. Am I correct?

And go.

Internet Hate Machine
02-15-2008, 11:05 PM
First of all thanks for the compliment.

Second, since you are assuming the role of dedicated control with a "combo" finish, I probably don't have much I can add legitmately, being neither a combo nor dedicated control player. It just seems to me the list doesnt have ENOUGH control as is for your extraordinarily limited win conditions. Damnation seems a little uneeded as I see it, since its a fairly "slow" sweeper, and you have upheaval which is pretty much a giant reset button if you arent about to combo off. Secondly, moat seems pretty useful here, hoofprints gives you flyers and with upheaval moat just bounces back and lets your "combo" finish end the game, plus, most of the meta has a pretty difficult time dealing with it. just some thoughts.

from Cairo
02-15-2008, 11:24 PM
White really only offers spot removal, that while not as good as swords is already available in Black. It also gives you Hoofprints I guess it is an ok alternate win, but it doesn't have any synergy with Upheaval. If you wanted to do a Hoofprints control deck, TEC seems like the right direction to take it. Hoofprints pushes you into Meditate, which doesn't seem overwhelmingly good in this deck.

Why no Counterbalance?

4 Tog and 3 Upheaval seem like too many of each, they aren't very good in multiples, especially Upheaval...

I'd be inclined to do something like...

Creatures 3
3 Psychatog

Instants 20
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Smother
3 Counterspell
2 Thirst for Knowledge

Sorceries 7
3 Thoughtseize
2 Damnation
2 Upheaval

Enchantments 3
3 Counterbalance

Artifacts 8
3 Chrome Mox
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
2 Vedalken Shackles

Land 19
4 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Underground Sea
2 Flooded Strand
1 Watery Grave


[Then I would probably change the duals to shocklands, the Dazes to Force Spikes, the Factories into Mutavaults and the Force of Wills into something else and play it in Extended, haha.]

raharu
02-17-2008, 07:41 PM
White really only offers spot removal, that while not as good as swords is already available in Black. It also gives you Hoofprints I guess it is an ok alternate win, but it doesn't have any synergy with Upheaval. If you wanted to do a Hoofprints control deck, TEC seems like the right direction to take it. Hoofprints pushes you into Meditate, which doesn't seem overwhelmingly good in this deck.

Why no Counterbalance?

4 Tog and 3 Upheaval seem like too many of each, they aren't very good in multiples, especially Upheaval...

I'd be inclined to do something like...

Creatures 3
3 Psychatog

Instants 20
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Smother
3 Counterspell
2 Thirst for Knowledge

Sorceries 7
3 Thoughtseize
2 Damnation
2 Upheaval

Enchantments 3
3 Counterbalance

Artifacts 8
3 Chrome Mox
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
2 Vedalken Shackles

Land 19
4 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Underground Sea
2 Flooded Strand
1 Watery Grave


[Then I would probably change the duals to shocklands, the Dazes to Force Spikes, the Factories into Mutavaults and the Force of Wills into something else and play it in Extended, haha.]

I'm going go be honest. TEC is starting to look like an overhyped pile of bad. Theoretically it has good matches against everything, but every time I read a tournament report about from someone playing the deck, it gets stomped by something it has been built to beat. I'm not going to invest in it.

Now then, let's talk about this pile of decent.

3 Damnation are wanted to stop initial creature rushes, and reseting the creature side of the board is beneficial so one can get into the late game without having to use the sometimes shaky Psychatog stalemate.

I see a startling lack of Meditate, and Thirst for Knowledge is really bad, I would run Compulsive Research before that.

Valkden Shackles isn't so hot, in all honesty. I do hope it was included for TfK...

You have too few lands. The deck really wants lands. Not as many as landstill, but it desires at least 21 mana sources, possible more.

The lack of a good secondary finisher bothers me. Manlands aren't going to cut it, period.

Your curve is fairly terrible to be running CB, fine sir. There is a reason I don't have that overpowered bastard in the origional post. there are too many cards that nothing when revealed. I do believe that this is the problem TEC is having right now, but even this deck doesnt have the CB curve problems they have.

The reason that there are so many togs and Upheavals (specifically togs) is simply that tog is a really good Chrome Mox pitch, and sometimes you may have to pitch things to mox and Force of Will that you may not want to.

Hoofprints was chosen over other things because both it and tog have synergy with drawing cards (in different ways), and neither really require an "all in" approach. White also gives me superior removal/ Moat if you want it. I'm considering dropping White, in all actuality, for Tombstalker and removal that doesn't run the risk of putting the opponent out of heavatog range.