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Banelich
02-16-2008, 06:38 PM
This is a deck that I've been messing with on and off for a little under 2 months now. It has a tendency to be less than stable, usually dies to heavy counter, or land disrupt, but is capable of a turn 3, occasionally turn 2 brutal kill. It is because of this I want to further develop it if possible.

The basic idea behind this deck is hope for a Leyline of Singularity in your openning hand without mulling too much, and drop a 1st or 2nd turn Hunted Horror. (Leyline kills Horror's tokens)

Lands
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp
1 Island
2 Tomb of Urami
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea


Creatures
1 Mindslicer
2 Tombstalker
4 Hunted Horror


Other Jank
4 Leyline of Singularity
4 Force of Will
3 Brainstorm
3 Stifle

4 Berserk
3 Reanimate
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
3 Land Grant

1 Do or Die
1 Infest
1 Damnation



SB
2 Pithing Needle
4 Extirpate
3 Gloom
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Ostracize


Win cons are Hunted Horror, Tombstalker, Tomb of Urami, Mindslicer & possibly a reanimated goyf or whatever's handy.

Ideally Leyline + Hunted + Berserk(s) & a little mana accel = turn 2 to turn 4 kill. I've frequently had to mull to 5 sometimes 4, and keep a bad hand hoping to use a backup win con or use a stifle on a Horror, to which ppl usually respond "Why don't you just play naut?" grrrrr

This CAN be faster than stiflenaut, but its not as consistant.

Theres obviously a few spots that are open in this deck, Mindslicer, Do or Die, Infest, & Damnation being the most noticable. All useful at times, but not consistant.

Anyways the point of this post is .........

I'm looking for other cards I haven't thought to include.
To that end I have thought to include Daze, Countertop, & Naut.....but don't want this to turn into another damn netdeck. (so I say ...... as I post this jank on the NET)

rodgon666
02-17-2008, 02:44 AM
you might want to look up the deck list called BRAND.

also just take a look at that card in itself, its a way better card than leyline of singularity, id rather just take back the tokens then kill them.

Mooglar
02-17-2008, 04:30 AM
i don't see any goyfs >_>

rodgon666
02-17-2008, 04:37 AM
ooooh! i know... y not counterbalance and...... senseis divining top!

( way to be original....dude... not every deck with green needs goyfs... or counter top... but it seems like everyone thinks they do)

Ranarion
02-17-2008, 07:40 AM
This CAN be faster than stiflenaut, but its not as consistant.A 6/6 kills faster than a 12/12..? Oo

Willoe
02-17-2008, 08:30 AM
For a note, it's 7/7.. but still yeah, how do you have a faster play than stiflenought?

RoddyVR
02-17-2008, 10:42 AM
opening hand of leyline, bayou, dark rit, horror, berserk = turn 3 win.

add the condition of 2 berserks and the 2nd turn mana to play them = turn 2 win.

Cavius The Great
02-17-2008, 11:26 AM
Where's Thoughtseize? I would hate to see you take mana burn off of a dark ritual.

Jaynel
02-17-2008, 11:32 AM
14 blue cards seems a tad low to support Force of Will. I suggest moving into discard instead and running at least 4 Thoughtseize, maybe some Duress or Hymn as well.

Cavius The Great
02-17-2008, 11:56 AM
With Leyline of Singularity your opponent still gets to keep a 3/3 pro black creature. This isn't good. How is this deck better than Fish/Despotic Scepter decks or Brand decks? I'm just curious.

May I suggest Perish? It's good with Horror and isn't dead versus any deck running Goyf and Mongooses.

PhanTom_lt
02-17-2008, 12:43 PM
With Leyline of Singularity your opponent still gets to keep a 3/3 pro black creature. This isn't good. How is this deck better than Fish/Despotic Scepter decks or Brand decks? I'm just curious.

May I suggest Perish? It's good with Horror and isn't dead versus any deck running Goyf and Mongooses.

No, he doesn't. However, a W splash for a Karakas might be fun, (or even as a "colorless" land).

Also look up Isamaru's Vile Horror, especially more early builds, which I find to be more "fun".

Cavius The Great
02-17-2008, 12:50 PM
No, he doesn't. However, a W splash for a Karakas might be fun, (or even as a "colorless" land).

Also look up Isamaru's Vile Horror, especially more early builds, which I find to be more "fun".

Oops, forgot about the new Legends rule. *bonks himself on the head*. Karakas sounds cool. Who would of thought?

Isamaru
02-17-2008, 01:03 PM
Karakas, Arena of the Ancients, using few permanents, Hero's Demise.... none of it is helpful in the end.

I don't mean to be discouraging, but UrDraco and I both do not recommend working on this - or especially not a Leyline version. After two years each, we are still tweaking, and neither of us is willing to give up our current list - not because we are trying to be secretive, but because there is nothing to be gained as of right now. Eventually the day will come...

Krikkit
02-17-2008, 01:04 PM
This deck idea seems very very similar to plurality (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5968&highlight=plurality) . It seems as if this idea has been explored many times before, and there doesn't seem a need to keep re-posting new threads about ways to abuse the hunted creatures if we could just keep all discussion in one thread. =\

Cavius The Great
02-17-2008, 01:19 PM
Karakas, Arena of the Ancients, using few permanents, Hero's Demise.... none of it is helpful in the end.

I don't mean to be discouraging, but UrDraco and I both do not recommend working on this - or especially not a Leyline version. After two years each, we are still tweaking, and neither of us is willing to give up our current list - not because we are trying to be secretive, but because there is nothing to be gained as of right now. Eventually the day will come...

Isamaru, you brain spews gallons of creativity, I'm truly appalled.

I also think Serum Powder should somehow be included in a list like this. Serum Powder is very much needed to ensure a first turn Leyline of Singularity.

Banelich
02-17-2008, 11:45 PM
I supose when I first posted this, I should have mentioned a few other things;

#1 - This is the 3rd generation of this deck

Gen 1 had serum powders & even with that jank at least 1 in 6 games I'd have to mull into oblivion with no Leyline or Leyline and nothing else. The deck wasorginally BG / no blue mana to cast leylines, no stifle as a backup plan. It did have a more stable mana base, and it had LftL, Wastelands, and Crop Rotation. Tomb was way more yukky, & it did have thoughtseize / duress disrupt package. Overall....good deck idea.....HORRIBLE DECK.

Gen 2 wasn't too much different too much different that what I posted. I switched to 3 color, attempted to stabilize mana base, got rid of most of the green except berserk & land grant, added FoW which is usually where the extra copy of Leyline goes when I inevitablly draw it nearly every game. (though I don't always have the force to accompany it) It also included Gathan Raiders, in a poor attempt to help power out TS faster, and usually dump dead lands from hand. (FAILED EXPERIMENT) Also added stifle and duress & thoughtseize dropped down to 3 of's

Gen 3 as it was posted, which still isn't good enough. I didn't even mess with the "SB" in between gen 2 & 3, the ostrizes you see in the SB used to replace duress against goblins and other mostly aggro matches. As you see, the hand disrupt is gone from the MD. The orginal intent of this deck was HYPERSPEED agression / OVERSIZED aggro. Added Brainstorms, dropped the Hand disrupt, as it is good for long term game plan, but I'm not looking to play a long game. As a matter of fact I just want my opponent to look at my deck and have an aneurysm or seizure. I want this deck to kill by thought!



opening hand of leyline, bayou, dark rit, horror, berserk = turn 3 win.

add the condition of 2 berserks and the 2nd turn mana to play them = turn 2 win.

Thanks to RoddyVR for explaining the speed factor, though actually for no appearent reason it fires off of petals way more often than rits, and I could really give a crap about 1 measly pt of mana burn I do take on the occasions that it does fire off a rit. I'd care even less if I could get this stupid jank to consistantly kill by 4th turn minimum..... which brings me to....



I don't mean to be discouraging, but UrDraco and I both do not recommend working on this - or especially not a Leyline version. After two years each, we are still tweaking, and neither of us is willing to give up our current list - not because we are trying to be secretive, but because there is nothing to be gained as of right now. Eventually the day will come...

Thanks, I was mostly convinced of that prior to posting, (aside from "especially not a Leyline version" comment) which is mostly why I posted this deck in the first place. I was really hoping there was something out there I might be overlooking. (I'm sure there still is, but is it worth playing ...probably not)

P.S. The "Brand / Varchilds" BS is older than your mom and my mom collectively. Granted it was made better with Forbidden Orchard... but if I was going a slow retarded route like that, I'd prefer Defense of the Heart.

ACME_Myst
02-18-2008, 05:41 PM
1) Why the hell is Land Grant in there? Unless I'm missing some major tech, isn't plain fetchland just better?

2) Your godhand is "leyline, bayou, dark rit, horror, berserk = turn 3 win.". Now, imagine this:

"Bayou/Trop, petal, naught, stifle, berserk". Is a turn 2 kill, with just as much cards, while requiring less general useless stuff like Leyline.

3) @rodgon666: Don't try to be creative for creatisms sake. Imagine this: In Vintage, why would anybody cut Flash from their Flash.dec, and replace it with the 'much more creative' combo of Show&Tell + Cabal Therapy. Sure, it's original, but it's also a lot worse.
Goyf and CounterTop are just very good, proven cards. Don't hate on them because 'everybody plays them'.

Just my $0.02.

Banelich
02-18-2008, 08:02 PM
There are a number of personality types that are drawn to the game of Magic. To some, winning is everything. To others fun is the main objective. Some people play to pass the time, and couldn't build a deck to save their lives. To others deckbuilding is a creative outlet. This is just a small cross section of the types of people you'll meet while playing magic.....

With that said ...........


Goyf and CounterTop are just very good, proven cards. Don't hate on them because 'everybody plays them'.


A) Hey I play goyf's!

B) I never claimed this was a good deck.

C) I would rather play a bad deck and lose 80% of the time, than to be another mindless sheep with a standard netdeck and win 80%.

D) My track record speaks for itself.

Isamaru
02-18-2008, 09:29 PM
Goyf and Countertop are proven cards, and they are good. Hunted Horror is better... but not with Leyline.

Again, eventually the day will come. We'll see how it goes on March 1st. If I win the Mox Jet, I'll create a thread for Vile Horror.

Comparing Flash to Show and Tell is a false analogy. Banelich is correct in his point "C" - except that Hunted Horror doesn't have to be in a bad deck. After two years of experimenting, I believe that Brand is not worth pursuing - at least not until they print us a new card... but with Brooding Saurion leading the way in 216.1 cards, it looks like they're not planning on printing anything except on accident.

ACME_Myst
02-19-2008, 03:25 AM
Though the reply wasn't directed at you, Banelich, but you are or course right. My mws deck folder currently contains ehh... 522 deck files. So yeah, I like making decks.
When building a new deck however, why choose cards that are clearly worse then other cards? For example, why Land Grant instead of fetch in a deck that has no real use for it? Is that being creative because you're trying to make a good deck?

Cavius The Great
02-19-2008, 10:18 AM
Goyf and Countertop are proven cards, and they are good. Hunted Horror is better... but not with Leyline.

Again, eventually the day will come. We'll see how it goes on March 1st. If I win the Mox Jet, I'll create a thread for Vile Horror.

Comparing Flash to Show and Tell is a false analogy. Banelich is correct in his point "C" - except that Hunted Horror doesn't have to be in a bad deck. After two years of experimenting, I believe that Brand is not worth pursuing - at least not until they print us a new card... but with Brooding Saurion leading the way in 216.1 cards, it looks like they're not planning on printing anything except on accident.

I have an untested decklist that plays Brooding Saurian and Sleeper Agent. A 3/3 for one black is cool. I've always wanted to break that card.

The Coming Curse
02-19-2008, 11:32 AM
im with acme. why not more fetch? also if you had more fetch it would help tombstalkers delve, but that would be only if you are keeping tombstalker in your list. have you considered hunted troll? idk if it would be to slow but a 8/4 regen on turn 3 isnt to shabby in my opinion. but it was just a thought.

Banelich
02-19-2008, 02:46 PM
The reason for land grant over fetches... is pretty much null and void after I went from Gen 1 to Gen 2. That reason being street waith & nights whisper was painful enough, especially vs burn without adding a ton of pain from fetchlands.

Yes I've considered all the hunted when making the 1st build, & I've actually played the green fatty in another deck prior to this one, but as I've stated, in this deck, I'm going for the quick kill, and 2GG is too much. As it is TS & Tomb both work ok ususally, and creating a 5/5 Fly off of 2 lands (or petal & 1 land) a rit and tomb at the end of your opponents turn, or in the middle of their attack, can be pretty hot. Neither of these are evasive or easily protected but can be quick win cons.

Ultimately though....I still haven't found anything useful enough to turn this deck into more than a "55-60%" deck. It CAN pull off some crazy fast wins here and there, but not consistantly.

thefreakaccident
02-19-2008, 03:45 PM
BRAND

lands//19
3 volcanic island
3 underground sea
3 badlands
1 tropical island
4 forbidden orchard
1 bloodstained mire
4 polluted delta


cratures//15
4 hunted horror
4 dark confidant
3 hunted phantasm
4 gilded drake

spells//26
4 cabal therapy
4 brand
4 mystical tutor
4 duress
4 brainstorm
2 echoing truth
4 aether vial


sideboard//
3 trygon predator
4 phyrexian fernace
3 pithing needle
2 pyroclasm
3 stifle