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DragoFireheart
02-19-2008, 09:12 PM
Mountain x 10
Ghitu Encampment x 4
Forgotten Cave x 4
Vesuva x 4
Cloudpost x 4

Fire Diamond x 4
Talisman of Impulse x 4

Volcanic Geyser x 4 [Urza Rage Filler]
Earthquake x 4
Tower of Eons x 1
Beacon of Destruction x 4
Starstorm x 4
Ghitu Fire x 4 [Demonfire Filler]
Inferno x 4
Molten Disaster x 1

Sideboard: Meta-Game based.

Before any of you say anything, yes this deck is extremely janky, loses to combo 99.9% of the time and can be shut down by a single Circle of Protection: Red. Currently working on fixing this issue :wink: .

This deck originally started out as a silly multiplayer deck. The other day though I beat a Threshhold player with it! :laugh:

So what is this deck? Mono-Red control you say? Sure looks janky.

Point of the matter is that in the current meta it isn't quite as bad as one may think.

- Most of the spells are completely immune to counter-top, 3sphere and CotV. Because of the massive amount of mana accel, Thresh spells such as Daze and Spell Snare tend to not affect most of the deck.
- Due to the massive amount of mana and mana accel, denial through the use of Blood Moons and Wasteland isn't quite as good as one would think. Back to Basics will cause us some problems though.
- Any sort of aggro, weenie or swarm [Including goblins] deck will simply roll over and die to this deck because of the large amount of mass removal.

The basic idea of this deck is to make crazy amounts of mana and drop a huge burn spell or two to fry my opponent. Once I managed to obtain Demonfires and Urzas Rage, this strategy will also be immune to damage prevention and counter magic. Sadly this deck will roll over to a simply Misdirection. :frown:

As a secondary method to kill my opponent, I can use Ghitu Encampments to poke them to death. Vesuvas can copy Ghitu Encampment should I run short on them.

Some ideas came to me:

-Splash for another color for disruption [Black prehaps] to have a fighting chance against combo?
-Splash for green for other methods of rapid mana accel?
- Maindeck Pyrostatic Pillar to punish my opponent for using a cheaper mana curve deck?

I expect to get some laughs at this deck, but feel free to make any suggestions.

Nihil Credo
02-19-2008, 09:47 PM
I don't think the idea is any good in Legacy, but for reference and possibly inspiration, this was one of my favourite decks ever:

Kuroda-Style Red a.k.a. Flores Red
Format: Mirrodin / 8th / Kamigawa Standard

// Lands
20 [UNH] Mountain
4 [DS] Blinkmoth Nexus

// Creatures
4 [MR] Arc-Slogger
4 [MR] Solemn Simulacrum

// Spells
4 [DS] Pulse of the Forge
4 [FD] Magma Jet
3 [DS] Flamebreak
3 [FD] Beacon of Destruction
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [FD] Wayfarer's Bauble
4 [MR] Shrapnel Blast
2 [MR] Shatter

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MR] Shatter
SB: 2 [DS] Unforge
SB: 3 [MR] Oblivion Stone
SB: 4 [MR] Molten Rain
SB: 2 [BOK] Sowing Salt
SB: 3 [8E] Defense Grid

edgewalker
02-19-2008, 11:14 PM
For the record, red has a lot of pseudo-staples that could be playable. Skullschorch (go ahead look it up) although conditional can be a sick card.

xsockmonkeyx
02-19-2008, 11:51 PM
Why Inferno instead of Rolling Earthquake? Availability/price? I think the scalability of R. Quake makes up for the sorcery speed. Also and the fact that it isnt dead if you don't have 7(!) mana is probably good too.

rodgon666
02-20-2008, 04:32 AM
your going for control right?

magus of the moon is a must... also simian spirit guide for acceleration maybe... more stax like shell minus all the direct stax hinges

vigilante
02-20-2008, 04:37 AM
magus of the moon is a must...

Really? I'd say these...



Ghitu Encampment x 4
Vesuva x 4
Cloudpost x 4
...
Earthquake x 4
Starstorm x 4
Inferno x 4
Molten Disaster x 1

...are some pretty compelling reasons why Magus doesn't belong here.

matelml
02-20-2008, 06:15 AM
I really like Breath of Dharigaaz as a red sweeper, although it doesn't kill Goyf.

ninjabear
02-21-2008, 01:10 PM
Mountain x 10
Ghitu Encampment x 4
Forgotten Cave x 4
Vesuva x 4
Cloudpost x 4

I guess you really want to stay monored, but adding land tutors (Sylvan Scrying, Crop rotation, Tolaria West) looks really sexy with this manabase.



Fire Diamond x 4
Talisman of Impulse x 4

Isn't Coldsteel Heart strictly better than Talisman of Impulse for this deck? And, if you really want to accelerate, what about adding cards like Thran Dynamo, or Gilded Lotus?



Volcanic Geyser x 4 [Urza Rage Filler]
Earthquake x 4
Tower of Eons x 1
Beacon of Destruction x 4
Starstorm x 4
Ghitu Fire x 4 [Demonfire Filler]
Inferno x 4
Molten Disaster x 1

Sideboard: Meta-Game based.



Consider also a way to deal with Protection from red creatures... Barbarian Ring? Pithing needle?
Aren't you too vulnerable to Wasteland/Rishadan for Goblins not to beat you? You don't have Pyroclasm nor any of the "Efficient" sweepers, and most of your lands come into play tapped and they can Wasteland them or keep them tapped...

I don't think junky deck exists. Any idea is valid. There are simply decks that are not competitive, depending on the most common decks...
Pyrostatic pillar, btw, punishes storm combo, and you are a bit worried about combo. Also, don't you like some efficient instant-speed small creature beater (like Lightning bolt?). That could take care of a Cephalid Illusionist or a Goblin Lackey... (well, maybe goblin lackey is not as scary for this deck).
Also, some kind of not-so-expensive uncountereable sweeper would be good (something that cleans the table against threshold and that they cannot counter easily and that can be played before turn 10 (difficult, eh?)) .

Cavius The Great
02-21-2008, 01:30 PM
Here's a decklist that utilizes Inferno that I've been working on. It has the cute little combo of Shivan Meteor and Stuffy Doll/Mogg Maniac.

Voodoo Burn.DEC By Cavius The Great

Mana:35
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Dwarven Ruins
7 Mountain
4 Taiga
3 Mox Diamond
2 Gilded Lotus
2 Thran Dynamo
2 Heart of Ramos
3 Fire Diamond

Spells:25
3 Shivan Meteor
4 Stuffy Doll
4 Mogg Maniac
3 Fire Tempest
3 Inferno
4 Burning Wish
4 Chalice of the Void

Sideboard:15
2 Overmaster
4 Krosan Grip
1 Shattering Spree
1 Tranquility
1 Hull Breach
1 Fire Tempest
1 Devastation
1 Inferno
1 Shivan Meteor
1 Crush of Wurms
1 Hammer of Bogardan

This deck gets 'funny as hell' fourth turn kills on occasion. Usually comprising of second turn Shivan Meteor, third turn Stuffy Doll, fourth turn Inferno effect. A 13 damage burn spell is always fun and usually devastating (you target the Doll with the Meteor). There's also a little card called Fire Tempest which basically does the same thing as Inferno. :wink: I also utilized a wishboard with win cons/utility comprising the SB. It's a fun deck to say the least and can pull off some rather fun wins. :cool:

Thehunter820
02-21-2008, 11:40 PM
I have a mono red deck that im running off just the cards i have in my extra's, mine has umm creatures such as Ronin Houndmaster, Bloodrock Cyclops, Raging Goblin, and umm like a Tarox Bladewing, with plenty of removal like Lightning Bolt, Incinerate, and then it has umm Fatal Frenzy, and Brute Force, but what I recommend for you is umm maybe some cheaper burns with some pyroblast and Red elemental blast jsut for the purposes of cheaper creature removal and the REB and PB is for Counterbalance

xsockmonkeyx
02-23-2008, 12:39 AM
Voodoo Burn.DEC By Cavius The Great

Mana:35
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Dwarven Ruins
7 Mountain
4 Taiga
3 Mox Diamond
2 Gilded Lotus
2 Thran Dynamo
2 Heart of Ramos
3 Fire Diamond

Spells:25
3 Shivan Meteor
4 Stuffy Doll
4 Mogg Maniac
3 Fire Tempest
3 Inferno
4 Burning Wish
4 Chalice of the Void


Rolling Earthquake is strictly better than Fire Tempest because Horsemanship doesnt exist, it only requires 1 red, and they are both sorcery. 5RR still gives you 6 damage to each creature and player with Quake.


Sideboard:15
2 Overmaster
4 Krosan Grip
1 Shattering Spree
1 Tranquility
1 Hull Breach
1 Fire Tempest
1 Devastation
1 Inferno
1 Shivan Meteor
1 Crush of Wurms
1 Hammer of Bogardan


Why is Inferno #4 is the SB? Are you going to Burning Wish for Inferno? Cause it's not gonna happen.


Cost: 5RR
Card Type: Instant

Rules Text (Oracle): Inferno deals 6 damage to each creature and each player.

This would pretty much be the only instance that Fire Tempest is better than Inferno.

How about a Tsunami/Boiling Sea for your wishboard? Everyone plays islands.

Cavius The Great
02-23-2008, 08:52 AM
I run Chalice in the MD so Rolling Earthquake would be a really bad idea. You're right about Inferno though, I didn't realize it was an instant. My bad.

Sanguine Voyeur
02-23-2008, 09:00 AM
I run Chalice in the MD so Rolling Earthquake would be a really bad idea. Why would Chalice conflict with Rolling Earthquake? You can always set it just one higher then Chalice.

Shtriga
02-23-2008, 09:00 AM
a RL friend of mine runs a similar minded deck, although the card choices are quite different. it's janky but he has a lot of fun playing it (and he has been designing it since we were in 8th grade lol) and it wins quite a few times (ofc it's not tier 1 material but we play more for fun than anything else). although fragile, he can play beatdown and win with a 4 turn clock, or go control

it started out as a terrible "blow everything up" R/W deck with 4 wraths 4 jokulhaups 4 apocalyspe 4 nev. disk... lol . eventually (not until much later) we picked on the idea again and refined it a bit more (through it's many iterations it has been a burn deck, a pseudo sligh deck, and now controlish) to be what it is today

it plays ghitu encampments, lots of basic mountains (reason why coming next), and kher keep, to make a lot of chump blockers as it's very much needed sometimes.

for removal, it plays pyroclasm, starstorm, nev. disks (which give the deck a way to deal with enchantments among other things), and breaking point. also a couple of pillages

it also plays a bit of burn in incinerates and disintegrates (to kill regenerators, big late game finishers, and supplement the alternative beatdown route. also 4 browbeats as it tends to get out of gas all the time

for win conditions, it plays genju of the spires (hence the high number of mountains, it can win vs board control strictly on attrition as he has more mountains than the opponent has removal), and a few viashino sandstalkers


I can't give you a complete decklist as he has changed some things around since I last saw it. but it's about that. pyrostatic pillar and REB's in the SB give it "some" game against combo but I think it would roll over all the time. no1 in our meta plays combo though so it's fine I guess

Cavius The Great
02-23-2008, 09:02 AM
Why would Chalice conflict with Rolling Earthquake? You can always set it just one higher then Chalice.

I thought the converted mana cost of X was zero?

xsockmonkeyx
02-23-2008, 09:10 AM
I thought the converted mana cost of X was zero?

When the spell is on the stack X=X. Chalice at one doesnt counter a Rolling Earthquake on the stack when X=1 because the CMC is 2 total (1+R). A Chalice in play with any number of counters would have CMC=0 because it's not on the stack.

Chalice and Quake actually play well together because you can always just set X for Quake to be greater than or equal to the counters on chalice.

Sanguine Voyeur
02-23-2008, 09:11 AM
I thought the converted mana cost of X was zero?The converted mana cost on the stack depends on what it's set at. X=1 CMC=2, X=2 CMC=3, and so on. Everywhere else the X is zero.

bigbear102
02-23-2008, 11:48 AM
That's why I always loved Meltdown against Stax type decks, it always gets around Chalice, and happens to clear the rest of their board too.

I actually threw this deck together (the opening post) with a couple of tweaks, and it beat meathooks pretty easily (just random testing on MWS, mind you).

Definitely play Overmaster 4of MD. It is never dead seeing as it cantrips, and it helps you resolve setup spells before you Rage/Demonfire/Molten Disaster them out.

I also ran Heart of Ramos over Talisman, seeing as you don't have any real 3/4 turn plays other than sweepers anyway, and it makes your win con one turn faster. I threw Magma Jet in also, as it can be your spot removal, because you do want some, and it helps smooth your draws.

I would also run a few Pyroclasm in the board to switch Earthquake out for, just because they run wastes, and it clears their board completely.

I would definitely also run Pyrostatic Pillar MD, I forgot to add it in when I built it quick, but it is definitely a must have for you, after turn 2-3 the only cards you will be playing that will hurt you are Overmasters.

And cut the lonely Tower of Eons. It just isn't necessary. It's a one of so you won't see it when you want in 90% of the time anyway.

Also, have fun! This deck was a blast to play, and it will definitely be one of my top 5 time-waster decks on MWS for now. It might not win any tourneys, but it is definitely a blast to play, and who knows? If you can stop combo, it might just be what the format was looking for... I wouldn't hold my breath though.

savemysoul
02-24-2008, 04:42 PM
Have you ever thought of Blood moon/Magus of the moon ? It adds a random
"oops i win" play to the deck. O and DragoFireheart i didn`s see anything that could stop a first turn lackey. 4x lightning bolt and other 1cc spells are a must imo.

bigbear102
02-24-2008, 11:19 PM
Blood Moon/ Magus are "oops my mana base comes into play tapped and now i need 12 mana sources in play." Not the best idea for this deck.

Lightning Bolt is not a good card for this deck either, as it does nothing for the strategy. As was already mentioned, Lackey isn't that good against a deck packing Earthquake, Rolling Earthquake, and Starstorm. Darn, lackey connected, now my sweeper is even better card advantage.

Jourdelune
02-25-2008, 10:49 AM
Today in Legacy, Aggro-Control rock.

The pheonix Shard could be a nice creature sweeper that can evade rolling earthquake.

Playing with Hellbent, the Rakkos dragon (spelling) could be a nice addition.

I would prefer to have some aggro-control shell with SB to switch creatures against deck that get a lot of creature hate.

The advantage of it, first game aggro-control, second game side creature while opponent side his creatures hate = cards advantage and more versatility.

The P. Pillars is a must considering you don't have a lot of cards that can burn you with it. Having chalice in the Board could give you the edge against combo + P. pillars.

And the Aggro-part can give you a clock against combo has well.

Jourdelune

DragoFireheart
02-25-2008, 12:12 PM
That's why I always loved Meltdown against Stax type decks, it always gets around Chalice, and happens to clear the rest of their board too.

I actually threw this deck together (the opening post) with a couple of tweaks, and it beat meathooks pretty easily (just random testing on MWS, mind you).

Definitely play Overmaster 4of MD. It is never dead seeing as it cantrips, and it helps you resolve setup spells before you Rage/Demonfire/Molten Disaster them out.

I also ran Heart of Ramos over Talisman, seeing as you don't have any real 3/4 turn plays other than sweepers anyway, and it makes your win con one turn faster. I threw Magma Jet in also, as it can be your spot removal, because you do want some, and it helps smooth your draws.

I would also run a few Pyroclasm in the board to switch Earthquake out for, just because they run wastes, and it clears their board completely.

I would definitely also run Pyrostatic Pillar MD, I forgot to add it in when I built it quick, but it is definitely a must have for you, after turn 2-3 the only cards you will be playing that will hurt you are Overmasters.

And cut the lonely Tower of Eons. It just isn't necessary. It's a one of so you won't see it when you want in 90% of the time anyway.

Also, have fun! This deck was a blast to play, and it will definitely be one of my top 5 time-waster decks on MWS for now. It might not win any tourneys, but it is definitely a blast to play, and who knows? If you can stop combo, it might just be what the format was looking for... I wouldn't hold my breath though.

Mind posting the deck list for all of us to see?

Sek'Kuar
02-25-2008, 07:00 PM
my thought would be to just put in a bunch of small burn spells just to control the creatures, like a pseudo-sligh, and skull-scorch-esque black spells to control your opponents plays. Just a splash, but just enough

Media314r8
02-25-2008, 07:37 PM
Off the top of my head:

//Mana// (28)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Badlands
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Barbarian Ring
4 Mox Diamond

//Control// (20)
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Rolling Earthquake
4 Smokestack

//Wincons// (12)
2 Mogg Maniac
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Settler
2 Wort, Boggart Auntie

bigbear102
02-26-2008, 03:01 PM
I believe the deck I put together was something like this (I'm at the library right now):

2x Keldon Megaliths
4x Vesuva
4x Cloudpost
12x Mountain

4x Fire Diamond
4x Heart of Ramos

4x Overmaster

4x Rolling Earthquake
2x Earthquake
2x Molten Disaster
2x Starstorm
3x Demonfire
4x Urza's Rage
1x Beacon of Destruction

4x Magma Jet

4x Pyrostatic Pillar


That's not exactly what I have together, but it's pretty close. A SB would look something like:

3x Meltdown~general utility
2x Anarchy~enchantress, WW, some control decks
3x Sulfuric Vortex~any life gain you see, control
3x Pyroclasm~ goblins and other quick beats that have mana denial
4x Chalice of the Void~combo, and thresh, set it at 1 and laugh.

freakish777
02-26-2008, 03:53 PM
Repercussion + Pyroclasm/Rolling Earthquake = good times. Not sure you'd want to play with it MD, but it seems like a beating against anything relying on creatures.

Heart of Ramos seems really bad. Worn Powerstone seems like the better option.

Mordenkaynen
02-27-2008, 09:08 AM
All for junkeys) : Greater Gargadon can be added here.

Media314r8
02-27-2008, 10:07 AM
I personally am going to devote more time to this... despite OP not ebing able to afford urza's rage, I really want to build (and play) a deck with 4x rolling earthquake main. We just need something to kill goyf at this point in mono-red... any ideas? (aside from shivan meteor)

My first thoughts:
Spitebellows
FTK??? (is four really going to be enough on turn 4?)

Dilettante
02-27-2008, 10:36 AM
I personally am going to devote more time to this... despite OP not ebing able to afford urza's rage, I really want to build (and play) a deck with 4x rolling earthquake main. We just need something to kill goyf at this point in mono-red... any ideas? (aside from shivan meteor)

My first thoughts:
Spitebellows
FTK??? (is four really going to be enough on turn 4?)


FTK? No. Not really. It's easily 4/5 at that point (land, creature, sorcery, instant...) Powder Keg works, but is slow... If you dump your hand fast enough, there's always Ensnaring Bridge... There's also Meekstone, Maze of Ith... There's always Tormod's Crypt timed with a board sweep. Just remember to count the crypt in your own yard!

Media314r8
02-27-2008, 11:45 AM
Here's what I've been testing:

// Lands
1 [8E] Forest (1)
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [B] Taiga
5 [UNH] Mountain
3 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
2 [OD] Barbarian Ring
4 [REW] Wasteland
4 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
1 [JU] Genesis
4 [MOR] Countryside Crusher
3 [MR] Solemn Simulacrum
3 [MOR] Spitebellows

// Spells
4 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
4 [P3] Rolling Earthquake
4 [TO] Devastating Dreams
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
2 [7E] Earthquake
3 [DS] Trinisphere

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [8E] Blood Moon
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf

Seems slightly inconsistant, but the dreams/crusher is amazing. I know I ended up slashing Green for Genesis, canopy, and SB Grips, but I still think this deck has potential as an alternative to loam rather than a strictly inferior loam build. The deck has a much more winnable combo MU than loam, and a slower but less mana-intensive card engine. Six 'quakes haven't seemed neccesary with dreams, but against goblins or EtW tokens, the early quake might be neccesary. Crusher is a house in this deck. Swords has been a problem though, luckily, white has been seeing less play recently.

Possible Changes: -2 Earthquakes, +2 Demonfire

-or-

-2 quakes, -2 R quakes, + 4 goyfs MD (he's probably not a two-drop, but having an alt win (other than spitebellows recursion) if crusher gets extirpated seems good, and having more threats that survive quake/dreams is allways fine.

Nihil Credo
02-27-2008, 01:26 PM
Without Loam and with only 24 lands, Devastating Dreams is suicidal. It could work fine from the sideboard, though.

Media314r8
02-27-2008, 01:41 PM
Cucible for dreams, it's been fine so far. You won't be casting dreams turn two, but you dont really want to before you get crusher and/or crucible out.