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MartinV
02-20-2008, 02:38 PM
This is a deck i have been working on for a little while now. I would like to use this deck to try a legacy tournament, until now i been on no tournaments. I know there are other budget decks to step in, but i would rather try with an own creation then find a list on the internet.

The basic idea behind the deck is to play good creatures and hinder and/or gain advantage from noncreatures spells. Here is a decklist and explenation of card choices.

// Lands
3 [P3] Plains (1)
6 [ON] Forest (2)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [MOR] Murmuring Bosk
2 [A] Savannah
2 [A] Scrubland
// Creatures
4 [LRW] Treefolk Harbinger
2 [LRW] Doran, the Siege Tower
4 [RAV] Birds of Paradise
4 [RAV] Watchwolf
4 [FUT] Heartwood Storyteller
3 [CHK] Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
3 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
4 [LRW] Shriekmaw
2 [TSP] Serra Avenger
3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
// Spells
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst


Birds of Paradise: Mana fixing.
Treefolk Harbinger: Mana fixing and can get one of the treefolks
Watchwolf: Good p/t for the mana cost
Isamaru: Good p/t for the mana cost
Serra Avenger: Evasiveness and cheap
Loxodon Hierarch: 4/4 creatures that also gives life!
Doran, the Siege Tower: Does 5 damage for 3 damage, also turns BoP and Treefolk Harbinger into possibles attackers.
Mother of Runes: Protect the important creatures
Shriekmaw: Removal, lategame possible creature
Joten Grunt: 4/4 for 2 mana that keeps graveyards low
Heartwood Storyteller: Get cards when opponent plays a noncreature spell
Thorn of Amethyst: Make it harder to play noncreature spells

What do you think? Is it decent/good, or can it be made decent/good? :)

*Edit* I know about Tarmogoyf, but its out of my budget for now since i also need alot of the lands.

fetchesbasiclands
02-20-2008, 02:43 PM
Have you considered Glowrider?You definitely need more disruption.Tarmogoyf is also good,but I guess you already knew it.

MartinV
02-20-2008, 03:06 PM
Glowrider looks good, thanks!
Yeah already know about tarmogoyf, but dont think i will get them soon, budget matter :P, i will note it in the opening post :)

from Cairo
02-20-2008, 03:47 PM
What do you think? Is it decent/good, or can it be made decent/good?

I don't think Thorn of Amethyst is enough disruption. Most aggro control, Thresh, is going to outclass you by countering your good creatures (Doran and Shriekmaw) and having Tarmogoyf > rest of your guys. Control like Landstill and what not, can force you to over extend with its Manlands as blockers, then Wrath/Deed away your board X for 1ing you and leaving you with no real way to recover. Combo is just not going to care about 2/2s and 3/3s when the only spell that hinders them from goldfishing you is Thorn.


If you are looking to play a disruptive aggro deck I would point you towards Dragon Stompy (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7622). For acceleration instead of Birds and Harlbingers it has Chrome Moxes and Seething Song. It has somewhat similar disruption in Trinisphere, but complements it with Chalice of the Void, it additionally capitalizes on the formats use of Fetches/Duals by running Moon effects, and has creatures that in general are better than the ones you're proposing.

Its a pretty budget deck in the scheme of things, the money cards are Moxen and Jittes, which run ~10 the rest of the deck is mostly "junk" rares and a few commons, some midrange rares too I guess, City of Traitors and Sword of Light and Shadow.

Another option might be to check out Death and Taxes (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6775), its a White weenie aggro deck with a disruptive spin. It's also fairly budget.


Not trying to be a jerk, but I think either of those decks implements similar strategies more synergisticly and with better disruption, than 37 creatures + Thorn of Amethyst.dec.

Cavius The Great
02-20-2008, 04:25 PM
I think the idea might be decent, especially if you introduce some disruptive (creature) elements to the deck, like Glowrider, Mesmeric Fiend, Sylvan Safekeeper and Ravenous Rats.

Nihil Credo
02-20-2008, 04:34 PM
Enshrined Memories FTW?

Cavius The Great
02-20-2008, 04:46 PM
Enshrined Memories FTW?

LOL. Enshrined Memories would be like a Goblin Ringleader in this deck. Good find Nihil. :smile:

EDIT: Here's my take on the deck.

Spells:42
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Watchwolf
4 Mersmeric Fiend
4 Glowrider
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Llanowar Elves
3 Ravenous Rats
3 Corrupt Court Official
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Enshined Memories
4 Dark Confidant

Lands:18
4 Bayou
4 Savannah
4 Scrubland
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:15
4 Shreikmaw
4 Stonecloaker
4 Withered Wretch
3 Yixlid Jailer

Cool thing about this deck is Enshrined Memories draws into ESG, which is cool. Drawing into mana acceleration FTW. Let me know what you guys think of my all creature sideboard, as well.

troopatroop
02-20-2008, 05:41 PM
4 Thorn of Amethist
2 Krosan Tusker
2 Graveborn Muse
3 Loxodon Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shreikmaw
3 Nekrataal
3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Yavimaya Elder
X Oversold Cemetary
X Carven Caryatid


23-24 Lands

The trouble is that board position doesn't matter against combo. Creatures dont disrupt all that well, and it's not always easy to dump your hand. Pretty decent long game, but not really very competetive. When Loam crushes your strategy, you may want to reconsider. If your meta is scrubby aggro, this should do well.

Cavius The Great
02-20-2008, 05:48 PM
4 Thorn of Amethist
2 Krosan Tusker
2 Graveborn Muse
3 Loxodon Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shreikmaw
3 Nekrataal
3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Yavimaya Elder
X Oversold Cemetary
X Carven Caryatid


23-24 Lands

The trouble is that board position doesn't matter against combo. Creatures dont disrupt all that well, and it's not always easy to dump your hand. Pretty decent long game, but not really very competetive. When Loam crushes your strategy, you may want to reconsider. If your meta is scrubby aggro, this should do well.

Graveborn Muse<Dark Confidant. Seriously, how many zombies do you run?

The Wes
02-20-2008, 05:56 PM
What about windborn muse? Helps against several matchups.

Cavius The Great
02-20-2008, 06:00 PM
4 Thorn of Amethist
2 Krosan Tusker
2 Graveborn Muse
3 Loxodon Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shreikmaw
3 Nekrataal
3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Yavimaya Elder
X Oversold Cemetary
X Carven Caryatid


23-24 Lands

The trouble is that board position doesn't matter against combo. Creatures dont disrupt all that well, and it's not always easy to dump your hand. Pretty decent long game, but not really very competetive. When Loam crushes your strategy, you may want to reconsider. If your meta is scrubby aggro, this should do well.

Gaddock Teeg is the bomb here. I should of included him in my list as well. How do you guys feel about True Believer?

Brushwagg
02-20-2008, 07:05 PM
The deck needs more Tarmogoyf. Survival wouldn't hurt either since most lists posted here would become alot better with it.

Cavius The Great
02-20-2008, 08:39 PM
The deck needs more Tarmogoyf. Survival wouldn't hurt either since most lists posted here would become alot better with it.

Survival isn't a creature. It would dilute the deck even further. Enshrined Memory is just better in this deck than SotF, hands down. Aether Vial might be better than both though.

xsockmonkeyx
02-20-2008, 08:58 PM
// Lands
3 [P3] Plains (1)
6 [ON] Forest (2)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [MOR] Murmuring Bosk
2 [A] Savannah
2 [A] Scrubland
// Creatures
4 [LRW] Treefolk Harbinger
2 [LRW] Doran, the Siege Tower
4 [RAV] Birds of Paradise
4 [RAV] Watchwolf
4 [FUT] Heartwood Storyteller
3 [CHK] Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
3 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
4 [LRW] Shriekmaw
2 [TSP] Serra Avenger
3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
// Spells
4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst


Uh, +4 Aether Vial?

EDIT: You even have a pretty nice curve for it too.

Media314r8
02-20-2008, 09:24 PM
Have you considered ramdom jank like running aven mindcensor and no fetches? (run murmering bosk (you have 7 treefolk) and horizon canopy instead) I realize he doesnt help against burning wish, but he could be hilarious in response to a survival or a hellbent infernal tutor. Teeg definatly needs to be MB as a 3+ of. Also, no tuskers, run sakura-tribe elder instead, as he gives you a chance (b it a snowball in hell, ect) against dredge game one, and costs a mana less... would kinda suck if you're gonna put mindcensor in though... Shriekmaw definitly a 4-of MD. Yixid Jailer/Samuri of the pale curtain in the board?

insertnamehere
02-20-2008, 09:30 PM
I don't think Thorn of Amethyst is enough disruption. Most aggro control, Thresh, is going to outclass you by countering your good creatures (Doran and Shriekmaw) and having Tarmogoyf > rest of your guys. Control like Landstill and what not, can force you to over extend with its Manlands as blockers, then Wrath/Deed away your board X for 1ing you and leaving you with no real way to recover. Combo is just not going to care about 2/2s and 3/3s when the only spell that hinders them from goldfishing you is Thorn.

Leyline of Lifeforce would work good coming out of the sideboard vs anything with counterspells.

raharu
02-20-2008, 09:48 PM
This needs ++ Knights. Silver, White, Paladin en-vec, black, Hand of Cruelty, the white knight from the Hand Cycle in Kamigawa. First Strike is tech. Maybe something that stops the opponent from playing non-creature spells altogether? I would most defnately consider having four Leylines of Lifeforce in the sideboard, becuase Counterbalance + SDT really hurts this deck. I would say the list should look something like this :

Lands: 18
4 [P3] Plains (1)
4 [ON] Forest (2)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [MOR] Murmuring Bosk
2 [A] Savannah
2 [A] Scrubland

Artifacts: 8
Aether Vial x4
Thorn of Amethyst x4

Creatures: 34
Mother of Runes x4
Isamaru, Hound of Konda x3
Treefolk Harbinger x3
Watchwolf x3
Black Knight x3
Sliver Knight x3
White Knight x3
Serra Avenger x3
Glowrider x3
Doran, the Siege Tower x2
Heartwood Storyteller x4

34


A really rough list, but with the protection, it has a few good, "oops, I win" matches.

troopatroop
02-20-2008, 09:53 PM
Graveborn Muse<Dark Confidant. Seriously, how many zombies do you run?

My curve is really high. The only way we're beating thresh is with endless streams of beats. Confidant, while good, would cost me alot each turn. Graveborn is a nice body with draw, but weak still. I can't play Krosan Tusker and Dark confidant, so I went in a different direction.

Aether vial is really good as well, nice suggestion.

Gaddock Teeg is neccessary imo. It's your only viable piece of combo disruption.

Mesmeric Fiend and Ravenous Rats are generally quite bad. Watchwolf is pretty bad as well imo.

Cavius The Great
02-20-2008, 09:56 PM
This needs ++ Knights. Silver, White, Paladin en-vec, black, Hand of Cruelty, the white knight from the Hand Cycle in Kamigawa. First Strike is tech. Maybe something that stops the opponent from playing non-creature spells altogether? I would most defnately consider having four Leylines of Lifeforce in the sideboard, becuase Counterbalance + SDT really hurts this deck. I would say the list should look something like this :

Lands: 18
4 [P3] Plains (1)
4 [ON] Forest (2)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [MOR] Murmuring Bosk
2 [A] Savannah
2 [A] Scrubland

Artifacts: 8
Aether Vial x4
Thorn of Amethyst x4

Creatures: 34
Mother of Runes x4
Isamaru, Hound of Konda x3
Treefolk Harbinger x3
Watchwolf x3
Black Knight x3
Sliver Knight x3
White Knight x3
Serra Avenger x3
Glowrider x3
Doran, the Siege Tower x2
Heartwood Storyteller x4

34


A really rough list, but with the protection, it has a few good, "oops, I win" matches.

how are 2/2 pro-blank creatures better than creatures that do things? For double white I much rather have True Believer and for double black I'd much rather have Withered Wretch. 2/2 first strikers are not going to win you games versus combo and control. This deck should already be doing good versus aggro making the knights totally pointless.


Mesmeric Fiend and Ravenous Rats are generally quite bad. Watchwolf is pretty bad as well imo.

Mesmeric Fiend isn't too bad since it's like a Duress on a stick. Maybe Augur of Skulls would be better than the Rats?

raharu
02-20-2008, 10:05 PM
how are 2/2 pro-blank creatures better than creatures that do things? For double white I much rather have True Believer and for double black I'd much rather have Withered Wretch. 2/2 first strikers are not going to win you games versus combo and control. This deck should already be doing good versus aggro making the knights totally pointless.



Mesmeric Fiend isn't too bad since it's like a Duress on a stick. Maybe Augur of Skulls would be better than the Rats?
True, the agro match doesn't need to be worked on, but True Believer and Wthered Wretch are best as sidebord material, along with pretty much every other non-agro creature. The Knights (which should be colplimented with some Spectral Lynx, in all honesty) give you better matches against agro-control such as threshold, where you woll be hurt by CB.

Cavius The Great
02-20-2008, 10:14 PM
True, the agro match doesn't need to be worked on, but True Believer and Wthered Wretch are best as sidebord material, along with pretty much every other non-agro creature. The Knights (which should be colplimented with some Spectral Lynx, in all honesty) give you better matches against agro-control such as threshold, where you woll be hurt by CB.

The Knights just seem so random. Threshold creatures can get huge so a small bodied first striker still wouldn't stand a chance versus a 3/3 untargetable or 5/6 beasty. You're better off running cards like Shriekmaw and Nekrataal if you fear Thresh that much. Maybe even Abyssal Gatekeeper to get rid of Mongeese.

raharu
02-20-2008, 10:50 PM
The Knights just seem so random. Threshold creatures can get huge so a small bodied first striker still wouldn't stand a chance versus a 3/3 untargetable or 5/6 beasty. You're better off running cards like Shriekmaw and Nekrataal if you fear Thresh that much. Maybe even Abyssal Gatekeeper to get rid of Mongeese.
Gang block the Mongeese and 'Goyf. Considering that they have relatively a very threat-light deck, and you can't rely on rawrrwrrawrrawr creatures when all of yours are rather small (only one larger than a 3/3), the best idea seems like running creatures with first strike that will survive combat a decent percentage of the time. Consider this situation: blocking a mongoose. do you wat a 1 for 1 or a 0 for 1? With a high density of First Strike creatures, this is easy to achieve. If you think this is win more, consider that a few good EEs are going to make this deck bite it hard. I'm not so sure of the idea's validity, but it's not like proposing the idea is goin gto hurt the deck at all.

MartinV
02-21-2008, 06:48 AM
First, thanks to everybody responding :D

@from Cairo
I know there are better decks to find on the net, i have build a burn deck from some list, but like i said, i would rather try to build an own deck and lose more matches instead of getting a list of the internet.

As for the alternative draw spells, Graveborn Muse looks the best in my opinion (not perfect, but the best until now imo).
Heartwood Storyteller i have in the list now is to depend on the opponent.
The Enshrined Memories does not work well with Thorn and Glowrider, and makes adding Gaddock Teeg more difficult.
Dark Confidant gives to much damage i think and becomes weaker with Doran in play.

@Media314r8
I like the idea to drop fetch lands and run Aven Mindcensor, something i will definatly try out. Suppression Field might then be an idea for some extra disruption?
But why do Yixid Jailer/Samurai of the pale sideboarded when Joten Grunt has a better P/T?

@Cavius The Great
In the decklist you posted with alot of Discard creatures, wouldn't Dust Elemental be very good? Or is 3 creatures abit to much?
Maybe its an idea to go into the direction to use Thorn and small disrupting creatures in the beginning to buy time for Dust Elemental, Loxodon Hierarch and other nice beaters?

@xsockmonkeyx
I chose not to use Aether Vial because it will not work will with thorn etc.

@insertnamehere
Leylines of Lifeforce looks good as a SB card.

About the XX Knights i will think later, out of time at the moment :)

Media314r8
02-21-2008, 09:10 AM
@ knights: While yes, three knight on D can team block and kill the hell out of a goyf, they will never be able to ATTACK into said goyf, as that goyf ain't goin no where while a defender has 3 2/2 fist strikers. This would just create a stand-off unless you put something like jitte or additional flying win-cons.

@Yixid Jailer/Pale Curtain over Jotus Grunt: I'm not saying grunt isnt great pre-board GY hate, he is, but he just doesnt cut it against dredge (they win too fast and often before you get an upkeep, they can dredge in response, ect ect) or iggy (they win on the spot with thier yard) or loam (they'll just save a cycling land in hand to dredge loam back when you target with grunt. Samuri and Jailer just say 'no you' to these decks.

fetchesbasiclands
02-21-2008, 09:24 AM
Yeah,the first-striking Knights is the worst idea so far.Consider blocking a Mongoose with two of those and having either one of them eat a Bolt.They are just plain useless.Aether Vial,by the way isn't the most anti-synergistic card with Thorn,playing Thorn doesn't mean it should be the only non-Creature card in the deck.

Cavius The Great
02-21-2008, 10:32 AM
@xsockmonkeyx
I chose not to use Aether Vial because it will not work will with thorn etc.

I was the one who suggested Aether Vial. Scroll back.


Survival isn't a creature. It would dilute the deck even further. Enshrined Memory is just better in this deck than SotF, hands down. Aether Vial might be better than both though.


Xsockmonkeyx didn't seem to notice. I was one post before him.

MartinV
02-21-2008, 04:10 PM
I was the one who suggested Aether Vial. Scroll back.

Sorry, my mistake

xsockmonkeyx
02-21-2008, 10:50 PM
Xsockmonkeyx didn't seem to notice. I was one post before him.

Sorry Cav. I saw the list and immediately thought vial. I didnt scroll down to see your post before I posted, but I prolly would of QFT'd it.


@xsockmonkeyx
I chose not to use Aether Vial because it will not work will with thorn etc.

I dont know about this. Aether Vial comes down a turn earlier so in that case there is no change. Aether Vial would still be pretty rocking with all those creatures even at 2 mana.

Thehunter820
02-21-2008, 11:33 PM
I think umm more creature disruption would be good if you dont plan on running removal, if your playing thresh and they drop a tombstalker or a mystic enforcer what will you do then, however the idea isnt too bad, dunno if it wud stand up to thresh or some of the other legacy DTB's

MartinV
02-23-2008, 08:32 PM
I was thinking/testing to get rid of the black part, and use Thornweald Archer instead of Shriekmaw to get kill big creatures. Ofcourse also adding aether vial, and i was thinking about adding about 2 Dust Elemental. I think cutting black helps against Wasteland / Blood Moon etc.

What do you guys think?

Jourdelune
02-25-2008, 11:09 AM
Bosk Banneret

Color= Green Type= Creature - Treefolk Shaman Cost= 1G MT(C)
Text (MT): 1/3. ; Treefolk spells and Shaman spells you play cost {1} less to play.


Dauntless Dourbark

Color= Green Type= Creature - Treefolk Warrior Cost= 3G LO(R)
Text (LO): */*. ; ~this~'s power and toughness are each equal to the number of Forests you control plus the number of Treefolk you control. ; ~this~


Leaf-Crowned Elder

Color= Green Type= Creature - Treefolk Shaman Cost= 2GG MT(R)
Text (MT): 3/5. ; Kinship - At the beginning of your upkeep, you may look at the top card of your library. If it shares a creature type with ~this~, you may reveal it. If you do, you may play that card without paying its mana cost.


Timber Protector

Color= Green Type= Creature - Treefolk Warrior Cost= 4G LO(R)
Text (LO): 4/6. ; Other Treefolk creatures you control get +1/+1. ; Other Treefolk and Forests you control are indestructible.


Now you get your Tarmo Blocker.

With some forest accelerant : Sakura Tribe-Elder and/or Y. Elder it's pretty good.

I did a treefolk mono green deck. The critters are big, indestructible, lot of cards advantage with Storyteller and Leaf-Crowned Elder.

The ***** MU is nice. But goblins are too fast for it.

Anyway, my treefolk deck do well generally and it give me some break time from aggro-control deck.

Storyteller is too good to be passed on for a Thorn + Glowrider combo (anti-synergy), I would use those pieces in the SB.



Traproot Kami

Color= Green Type= Creature - Spirit Cost= G BK(C)
Text (BK+errata): 0/*, Defender, Reach. ; ~this~'s toughness is equal to the number of Forests in play. [Oracle 2007/05/01]

This is a nice Doran walls that is a must for Dragon Stompy, faeries stompy or any retarded Exalted Angels deck.


Jourdelune

insertnamehere
02-25-2008, 09:30 PM
Bosk Banneret

Color= Green Type= Creature - Treefolk Shaman Cost= 1G MT(C)
Text (MT): 1/3. ; Treefolk spells and Shaman spells you play cost {1} less to play.


Dauntless Dourbark

Color= Green Type= Creature - Treefolk Warrior Cost= 3G LO(R)
Text (LO): */*. ; ~this~'s power and toughness are each equal to the number of Forests you control plus the number of Treefolk you control. ; ~this~


Leaf-Crowned Elder

Color= Green Type= Creature - Treefolk Shaman Cost= 2GG MT(R)
Text (MT): 3/5. ; Kinship - At the beginning of your upkeep, you may look at the top card of your library. If it shares a creature type with ~this~, you may reveal it. If you do, you may play that card without paying its mana cost.


Timber Protector

Color= Green Type= Creature - Treefolk Warrior Cost= 4G LO(R)
Text (LO): 4/6. ; Other Treefolk creatures you control get +1/+1. ; Other Treefolk and Forests you control are indestructible.


Now you get your Tarmo Blocker.

With some forest accelerant : Sakura Tribe-Elder and/or Y. Elder it's pretty good.

I did a treefolk mono green deck. The critters are big, indestructible, lot of cards advantage with Storyteller and Leaf-Crowned Elder.

The ***** MU is nice. But goblins are too fast for it.

Anyway, my treefolk deck do well generally and it give me some break time from aggro-control deck.

Storyteller is too good to be passed on for a Thorn + Glowrider combo (anti-synergy), I would use those pieces in the SB.



Traproot Kami

Color= Green Type= Creature - Spirit Cost= G BK(C)
Text (BK+errata): 0/*, Defender, Reach. ; ~this~'s toughness is equal to the number of Forests in play. [Oracle 2007/05/01]

This is a nice Doran walls that is a must for Dragon Stompy, faeries stompy or any retarded Exalted Angels deck.


Jourdelune

You can splash mummuring bosk for Doran if it is needed.