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Dilettante
02-25-2008, 10:37 PM
Modified List

Spells
2x Shred Memory
4x Extirpate
3x Gibbering Descent
4x Thoughtseize
2x Duress
4x Hymm to Tourach
4x Smallpox
4x Chains of Mephistopheles

Artifacts
3x Chrome Mox
4x The Rack
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Anvil of Bogardan

Land
3x City of Traitors
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
14x Swamp

Sideboard
4x Infest
4x Engineered Explosives
3x Cranial Extraction
4x Leyline of the Void


Original List

Creatures
2x Nezumi Shortfang

Spells
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Thoughtseize
1x Duress
4x Hymm to Tourach
4x Smallpox
4x Chains of Mephistopheles

Artifacts
4x The Rack
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Chrome Mox
4x Anvil of Bogardan
2x Howling Mine

Land
19x Swamp

Sideboard
4x Infest
4x Engineered Explosives
3x Cranial Extraction
4x Tormod's Crypt

Introduction
Might as well put this on the regular development thread instead of as a running gag... Okay, it is still a running gag, but I'll actually try to play it (have all the pieces now). This deck was originally designed as a joke, but I guess it is somewhat playable. It is a variant Monoblack Control that takes advantage of Chains of Mephistopheles. It is capable of playing the control game more heavily with the sideboard, but in its 'default setting', is more tuned to lock your opponent out of ever drawing a card again.


Strategy
The deck simply forces early discard, whilst bringing out Chains of Mephistopheles early if possible against opponents with drawing accelerants such as Rifter and Threshold. Anvil of Bogardan and Mikokoro provide deck filtering for the pieces needed. Ensnaring Bridge keeps critters at bay while the deck kills in several different ways. Anvil of Bogardan coupled with Chains of Mephistopheles, when an opponent is reduced to 0 cards, can never draw a card again as long as they remain in play. The Rack provides a slow kill in tandem with Gibbering Descent, which helps maintain the lock. Failing to kill with them, unless you are playing against Battle of Wits, the deck should be capable of decking them, since there are no filter lands and the draw effects activate upon your opponent first.


Card Choices

Engineered Explosives - Chalice of the Void can be a pain... Also primarily for Belcher / TES.

Cranial Extraction - Primarily for stripping away instant-speed artifact/enchantment removal (Krosan Grip, Naturalize, Disenchant, Vialed Harmonic Sliver, Echoing Truth) from their decks so that they can not draw into it to nullify one of your disrupters when the secondary draw effect hits the stack. Also for Gaea's Blessing. Obviously for stripping away silver bullets.

FoolofaTook
02-26-2008, 02:37 AM
Nezumi Shortfang is probably, as you say, not an ideal piece. Going creatureless will make your opponent's anti-creature dead weight in his hand as you setup your lock.

The Racks will kill fast enough on their own or you'll deck the opponent once you go into "flip a card into the graveyard" mode.

How about two Ill-Gotten Gains instead to give yourself the ability to recover necessary pieces from the graveyard if your opponent is a smart player and figures out the trap with his removal before you've completely sprung it? Any deck with maindeck Leylines of the Void should have Iggy in there somewhere.

freakish777
02-26-2008, 11:00 AM
No Dark Rit?

Seems better than Chrome Mox. Shred Memory transmutes for Chains, Anvil, Small Pox, and Nezumi (go to a 1 of?). Not ideal, but this deck probably isn't ideal for that matter either.

Dilettante
02-26-2008, 11:06 AM
No Dark Rit?

Seems better than Chrome Mox. Shred Memory transmutes for Chains, Anvil, Small Pox, and Nezumi (go to a 1 of?). Not ideal, but this deck probably isn't ideal for that matter either.

I'll try cutting the Nezumis and try testing with IGG in its stead... I tried testing with Dark Rits before, but that was when it had Teferi's and such. The existence of all the 2-cost spells made you want to keep out a Mox... but with IGG, it might convince me otherwise for an explosive start. -2 Nezumi, -1 Duress, -4 Chrome Mox, +3 IGG, +4 Dark Ritual?

porcupinetreeman
02-26-2008, 11:22 AM
Cool Idea.

This deck looks like it could abuse planar void very well. It might be better than leyline with the low mana cost.

It looks like this decks has a weakness of good win conditions. Good win conditions like Tombstalker and Neither Spirit have a bad synergy with the graveyard hate.

Maybe Chimeric Idol ? that also has a bad synergy with bridge.

Haunting Echoes would be good , but it is way outside your curve I think.

I agree that 2x Nezumi Shortfang shouldn't be in the deck.

Dilettante
02-26-2008, 11:51 AM
Possible other kill mechs can include Slithering Shade, Guiltfeeder (if Leyline is removed), Swamp Mosquito, and Subversion. The first three all have the issue of... being squishy creatures, making creature removal relevant. Subversion's issue is being too slow (5 mana) for a 2-point life swing each turn. Tombstalker's issue is... you are taking away some of the control and making creature removal relevant. You are also making it easier for them to bust through your defenses. Unfortunately, this seems more and more like a Stasis deck, but keeping your opponents' hand in the opposite condition.

FoolofaTook
02-26-2008, 01:20 PM
Creatureless is golden right now if you can figure out how to avoid being over-run by your opponent's critters. This meta has so much anti-creature stuff in in because of Goyf and Lackey and a few other choice cards. Making all of that stuff dead weight in game 1 probably increases your overall match win chance by 10%+.

The moxes are probably better than Dark Ritual. Use them to power your piecemeal discard and then finish them with Ill-Gotten Gains on turn 3 or 4. Thoughtseize, Duress and Hymn clear out the counters and then Iggy goes in for the win. Once you have them at zero cards they are going to be dead 99% of the time.

Cavius The Great
02-26-2008, 01:26 PM
@Dilettante - have you thought of running Gaea's Blessing as a win con? Once you start milling yourself and your opponent with Chains, Gaea's Blessing makes it impossible to deck yourself. Mill with Blessing and get an Ensnaring Bridge out and you're golden.

Dilettante
02-26-2008, 01:35 PM
Jace seems to be so able to fit in this deck in terms of capabilities and protection... but obviously, can't figure out how to sneak him in play without destroying the rest of the deck. There's Mikokoro, but... its vulnerable to Wasteland and Blood Moon when the rest of the deck is not... However, in cases where they run such, they lack artifact destruction and vice-versa, so it might be a replacement for Howling Mine...

Dilettante
02-26-2008, 01:47 PM
@Dilettante - have you thought of running Gaea's Blessing as a win con? Once you start milling yourself and your opponent with Chains, Gaea's Blessing makes it impossible to deck yourself. Mill with Blessing and get an Ensnaring Bridge out and you're golden.

Considered it... but what happens if you draw into it? It's only a dead card until the process starts... but the deck does require discard junk for Smallpox/Anvil... I'll give it a shot...

Cavius The Great
02-26-2008, 07:12 PM
Dilettante - Wouldn't it be wise to play with fetches and a single Bayou so that you can set Explosives in the board @2? Maybe 2-3 Polluted Delta, 2-3 Bloodstained Mire and 1 bayou might be something to consider.

Dilettante
02-26-2008, 09:19 PM
Dilettante - Wouldn't it be wise to play with fetches and a single Bayou so that you can set Explosives in the board @2? Maybe 2-3 Polluted Delta, 2-3 Bloodstained Mire and 1 bayou might be something to consider.


But... what would I have to remove that's at 2? Not Goyf... That boy will get too big for his britches and get grounded (Ensnaring Bridge). Too many of my own permanents are at 2... the critical ones. For Goblins, I get Infest... Survival, they are going card-neutral when they Survival...

Pulp_Fiction
02-26-2008, 09:49 PM
I built a Mono-Black Bridge deck a while ago and you don't need Gaea's Blessing as a decking strategy, you can if you really want to but it just makes games REALLY long. I killed with 2x Skullcage, 4x Rack, and 2x Cursed Scroll. Another great card to look into would be Wheel of Torture from Urza's Legacy, it is a 3 colorless casting cost rack and with so much counterbalance going around it might be a good choice.

Cavius The Great
02-28-2008, 10:36 AM
But... what would I have to remove that's at 2? Not Goyf... That boy will get too big for his britches and get grounded (Ensnaring Bridge). Too many of my own permanents are at 2... the critical ones. For Goblins, I get Infest... Survival, they are going card-neutral when they Survival...

People usually set Explosives at 2 becuase of countersliver. It's the only cheap way to get rid of Crystalline Slivers and the rest of meathooks comprises of 2cc creatures as well.

Dilettante
02-28-2008, 10:52 AM
People usually set Explosives at 2 becuase of countersliver. It's the only cheap way to get rid of Crystalline Slivers and the rest of meathooks comprises of 2cc creatures as well.


I'm afraid I have yet to *ever* play against a Countersliver deck :)

dahcmai
02-28-2008, 11:11 AM
It might seem dumb, but Scrying sheets is a way to get ahead of the lock yourself. It does open up the Bridge to an extent but only as much as you want to. It doesn't actually draw so you can use it for Anvil fodder and draw into cards you would rather have instead of the lands you will undoubtably get off it. All it requires is you to have snow swamps instead. Not a bad idea if you think about it.

If you run the sheets you may be able to get away with using Bitterblossom as a kill method. You'll have the one card to let them attack and they can build quite fast. It's an echantment so hate is usually boarded in for it, but luckily not maindecked usually. The life loss is the only concern, but it does help out on that some since it's quite quick to come out and can chump goyfs, werebears, goblins, and other randomness easily. Not many creatures used in legacy right now have trample.

Just a couple thoughts though, not sure if it's worth it. I haven't tried to play Chains Anvil lock in some time.

Cavius The Great
02-28-2008, 11:24 AM
@Dilettante - Have you considered Nether Spirit? It might be a nice little win con after you start milling yourself. It might interfere with Ensnaring Bridge though. :frown:

Dilettante
02-28-2008, 11:40 AM
On scrying sheets, it's a good idea, but it does open the deck to a few vulnerabilities (wasteland in particular). I've looked at Bitterblossom and the issue with it is that through the first part of the game, you are already soaking in chunks of life-loss, getting your lock pieces down and stifling control rather than aggro. You can take a few turns of aggro before you lock them out. Bitterblossom can give THEM a clock to kill you with and if the sheets goes down or they use an on-board wipe... Dark Confidant also skirts around the Chains ability. However, they can only really enact on instants if I do the lock right.

As for Nether Spirit... doesn't work well with Bridge...

There is removing IGG/Leylines... and running Extirpate/Echoes instead... The opportunity to Extirpate a crucial dual-land after a Smallpox is tempting... as well as the ability to make opponents' combos fizzle...

Barook
02-28-2008, 04:13 PM
Creatures which work under a Bridge:

- Vampire Bats & friends (limited, but they have evasion)
- Slithering Shade (hellbent shouldn't be a problem)

I dunno if it's really worth it to include creatures, but the Shade looks like a workable option - maybe.

Dilettante
02-28-2008, 04:15 PM
Creatures which work under a Bridge:

- Vampire Bats & friends (limited, but they have evasion)
- Slithering Shade (hellbent shouldn't be a problem)

I dunno if it's really worth it to include creatures, but the Shade looks like a workable option - maybe.


I've taken a look at them... and Guiltfeeder. Not really sure if they are worth... more or less removing Smallpox for, considering how Smallpox with Extirpate can buy... a good chunk of time.

Cavius The Great
02-28-2008, 04:23 PM
Haunting Echoes is waaay too expensive. Don't you want to be milling stuff by the third or fourth turn?

Dilettante
02-28-2008, 04:29 PM
Haunting Echoes is waaay too expensive. Don't you want to be milling stuff by the third or fourth turn?


I find myself playing MBC for the first 3 turns or so before I get the locks down... It might be too many... and if I do, I'll need an acceleration source... Is Ancient Tomb worth it? Kinda hurts Hymm and Smallpox... Otherwise, what would you cut the Echoes for?

Barook
02-28-2008, 04:32 PM
In terms of win cons, i just found Gibbering Descent - sure, it costs :2::b::b: when discarded, but with available mana, it can still be played under the lock.

Edit: Why not trying a few copies of City of Traitors? I don't think that Ancient Tombs are smart with so much life loss.

Dilettante
02-28-2008, 04:39 PM
In terms of win cons, i just found Gibbering Descent - sure, it costs :2::b::b: when discarded, but with available mana, it can still be played under the lock.

Edit: Why not trying a few copies of City of Traitors? I don't think that Ancient Tombs are smart with so much life loss.

Y'know, Descent actually looks like a damn valid kill condition... 3x in lieu of Haunting Echoes? If City of Traitors is integrated, then probably, an admixture of moxes might be more valid instead of Dark Rit, if the optimal mana sitting around is BB2 instead of arcing to 3 and settling on 2 cost...

Barook
02-28-2008, 04:54 PM
Y'know, Descent actually looks like a damn valid kill condition... 3x in lieu of Haunting Echoes? If City of Traitors is integrated, then probably, an admixture of moxes might be more valid instead of Dark Rit, if the optimal mana sitting around is BB2 instead of arcing to 3 and settling on 2 cost...

Exactly what I was thinking in terms of replacing cards.

- 4 Ritual
- 3 Echoes
- 2 Mikokoro

+ 3 City of Traitors
+ 3 Gibbering Descent
+ 3 Chrome Mox

Maëlig
02-29-2008, 07:43 AM
Interesting deck.
The idea of replacing Mikokoro by scrying sheets (and snow-covered swamps obviously) seemed really good to me.
Also, I was wandering why you don't play funeral charm. It's an instant discard that can as such be usefull in lots of situations, you can play it on yourself to play gibbering descent (although it shouldn't be a problem with chains and anvil) or to make a nasty surprise with ensnaring bridge in play. The +2/-1 option is also very usefull to get rid of annoying criters (smallpox is not enough imo, and it combines nicely with it to oblige your opponent to sac the big critter). I'm thinking in particular about dark confidant, which seems to be very strong against this deck.

Dilettante
02-29-2008, 08:16 AM
Interesting deck.
The idea of replacing Mikokoro by scrying sheets (and snow-covered swamps obviously) seemed really good to me.
Also, I was wandering why you don't play funeral charm. It's an instant discard that can as such be usefull in lots of situations, you can play it on yourself to play gibbering descent (although it shouldn't be a problem with chains and anvil) or to make a nasty surprise with ensnaring bridge in play. The +2/-1 option is also very usefull to get rid of annoying criters (smallpox is not enough imo, and it combines nicely with it to oblige your opponent to sac the big critter). I'm thinking in particular about dark confidant, which seems to be very strong against this deck.


I've looked at it, but... if I see Dark Confidant, I'll *maybe* sideboard Infest into it (i.e. Suicide Black). I look at the Confidant as a clock on my behalf mostly... because the decks that run Confidant in general... lack the ability to mainboard remove the kill/lock conditions in general, save pernicious deed and engineered explosives (which becomes an instant target of Thoughtseize/Duress/Extirpate) What would they draw into? Counterbalance and creature kill? The other issue is... what does it replace? Right now, there are 14 slots taken up already by aggressive discard. Another few seems to be a 'win more' and the lock pieces contribute to keeping cards at 0. And if I topdecked, I'd rather topdeck into an ensnaring bridge than funeral charm. Thoughtseize pre-emptively allows me to remove a creature if it is a real threat on top of Smallpox and my opponent should not be doing that many hidden hand mind-games against this deck. I've toyed around a bit with Scrying Sheets... I'd rather have a singleton win-condition than the sheets because sometimes, I'd have to go for the pure deck kill and pulling cards out disrupts the ability to do that.