[DECK] Cephalid Life

[Pulp_Fiction]

I just saw a little while ago in extended the Cephalid Breakfast/Life combo deck. Curious as to how it worked in Legacy I built it up and took it to my local 15-20ish person weekly tournament. Now for quite some time I played the Cephalid Breakfast deck without Force of Will and Tarmogoyf (don't have either) and the Breakfast deck is SO consistently able to assemble itself it is ridiculous. Anyway, I got rocked in the face by Dragon Stompy and won my next 2 matches against Dredge (this deck is a million times more consistent and almost as fast) and Mono-Black Rack (I GOT EXTIRPATED 3 TIMES AND STILL GOT MY COMBO OFF) and lost to Goblins due to HORRID mana problems but this deck has some SERIOUS potential. So without further introduction here is Cephalid Life:

Lands (18)
4x City of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Forbidden Orchard
3x Tarnished Citadel
3x Starlit Sanctum

Artifacts (9)
4x Chrome Mox
4x Aether Vial
1x Shuko

Creatures (16)
3x Narcomoeba
3x Cephalid Illusionist
3x Daru Spiritualist
3x Nomads en-Kor
1x Shaman en-Kor
1x Sky Hussar
1x Karmic Guide
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

Spells (17)
4x Living Wish
4x Brainstorm
3x Lim-Dul’s Vault
2x Worldly Tutor
2x Cabal Therapy
1x Dread Return
1x Eladamri’s Call

Sideboard
1x Daru Spiritualist
1x Nomad’s en-Kor
1x Shaman en-Kor
1x Cephalid Illusionist
1x Kami of Ancient Law
1x Bone Shredder
1x Dosan the Falling Leaf
2x Harmonic Sliver
1x Starlit Sanctum
1x Volrath’s Stronghold
4x Leyline of Lifeforce

This is the revised decklist of the one I played the other day, the Chrome Mox was added because it was VERY necessary and makes turn 2 kills more possible and frequent. Now, the reason I really like this deck is it’s resiliency towards the normal combo hate cards like Trinisphere, Pithing Needle, Engineered Plague, Tormod’s Crypt, Sphere of Resistence/Thorn, Arcane Lab/Rule of Law, Glowrider, Jotun Grunt, and Leyline of the Void. It is also VERY resistant to hand destruction and because the main combo only requires 2x cards (Illusionist, en-Kor) you recover quickly and can just go off or rip it in succession off the top. Because of its versatility it can easily adapt to whatever hate your opponent boarded in and win the next turn VIA the other combo route your opponent hasn’t blocked off It is incredibly hard to completely disable this deck.

How the Deck Works

It functions just like Cephalid Breakfast and the Life decks. You get Cephalid Illusionist and a Nomads or Shamanen-Kor or Shuko in play and target Cephalid Illusionist a bunch. Mill out your entire library and in the process put 3 Narcomoeba in play, flashback the Dread Return in your graveyard targeting Karmic Guide, Guide comes into play targeting Kiki-Jiki, Kiki comes into play and copies Karmic Guide which reanimates Sky Hussar which untaps Kiki, Tap Kiki to copy Hussar and repeat for infinite, hasty tokens. You use all of the tutors in the deck to assemble the two cards.

The Life combo works by having an en-Kor creature or Shuko and a Daru Spiritualist. You target the Spiritualist infinitely and sacrifice it to Starlit Sanctum for infinite life. This is only used as a backup to the Breakfast combo or when your hand is being destroyed and you rely on what you draw, and just happen to be able to get this combo off. It is kind of risky doing the life combo in that most players who are unfamiliar with how it works want to play it out. With answers to literally everything in the game and Volrath’s Stronghold in SB smart players (who know they don’t have an answer) will generally concede unless you are in game 3 in which case most people will try and stall to get the draw. The deck does not need a big fatty to beatdown, with the Stronghold all you have to do is throw clerics at the opponent, attack with flyers (Narco Beatdown), or just buy all the time you need, you have 80 trillion life after all, to get the hate out of the way and get your other combo off.

Card Justification

4x City of Brass – Allows the deck to be 4x colors without problem.
4x Gemstone Mine – Same
4x Forbidden Orchard – Same
3x Tarnished Citadel – I just like it better than Tendo Ice Bridge seeing as how it can be used more than once, and with the color requirements and already 3x colorless lands in the deck already I can’t think of a better land.
3x Starlit Sanctum – Part of the Life combo
4x Aether Vial – Serious protection from counters and really helps the speed and consistency of the deck
4x Chrome Mox – Acceleration and helps against Blood Moon/Magus.
1x Shuko – It is really nice to have another card to combo off of and can be searched out VIA Lim-Dul’s Vault, and also helps make the turn 1 or 2 kill even more possible and is immune to Swords to Plowshares.
3x Narcomoeba – Part of the Breakfast combo, it could go down to 2x but I really like the ability to flashback Cabal Therapy once or twice.
3x Cephalid Illusionist – Part of the Breakfast combo.
3x Daru Spiritualist – Part of the Life combo
3x Nomads en-Kor – Essential part of BOTH combos
1x Shaman en-Kor – Nice to have another combo enabler and with all of the search in the deck it makes it easier to fight through Pithing Needle or a second Plague on Soldiers (people always name Illusionist with Engineered Plague because it is the RIGHT play).
1x Sky Hussar - Part of the Breakfast combo.
1x Karmic Guide - Part of the Breakfast combo.
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker - Part of the Breakfast combo.
4x Brainstorm – Best draw in the format as well as good protection from hand destruction and helps put back combo pieces before going off.
4x Living Wish – Most versatile card in the deck and SERIOUSLY helps the deck fight through your opponent’s hate.
3x Lim-Dul’s Vault – Best search in the deck and run over Call or more Worldly Tutors because it fetches ANYTHING because sometimes you will have to search out a Wish or Shuko.
2x Worldly Tutor – Fetches the combo.
2x Cabal Therapy – Combo protection and can get essential combo pieces out of your hand.
1x Eladamri’s Call – Fetches the combo. Could be cut for something else. I would probably run another Shuko or Lightning Greeves over this if you had to cut it.
1x Dread Return – Part of the Breakfast combo.

Sideboard Card Justification

Basically everything, as you can see, is just a wish board target which makes things a lot more efficient and it allows you to easily select which way you want to combo off.

1x Daru Spiritualist – Part of the Life combo.
1x Nomads en-Kor – Part of both combos.
1x Shaman en-Kor – Part of both combos.
1x Cephalid Illusionist - Part of the Breakfast combo.
1x Kami of Ancient Law – Allows infinite recursion through Volrath’s Stronghold, removes any problem enchantment, and most importantly delays Dredge long enough so as you can win.
1x Bone Shredder – Infinite recursion with Volrath’s Stronghold, it kills Tarmogoyf and Meddling Mage, and evades Counterbalance.
1x Dosan the Falling Leaf – Simply wins the game when it is thrown into play VIA Aether Vial against anything with burn and counters and it evades Counterbalance.
2x Harmonic Sliver – I LOVE this card. It evades Counterbalance and destroys any good disruption you opponent has. I think 2x HAVE to be in here because it is very nice to sideboard 1x in so you can tutor it up and have the other one as a Wish target.
1x Starlit Sanctum – Part of the Life combo.
1xVolrath’s Stronghold – Allows you to win the long game or simply run you opponent out of disruption spells and just win by recurring you combo, also allows you to never deck yourself (as long as it isn’t wasted).
4x Leyline of Lifeforce – PHENOMENAL, don’t say anything bad about it until you have personally tried it out. Single-handedly wins the game against counters. It is honestly amazing, better than Aether Vial against blue control and when you opponent sides in their Krosan Grips they will generally be dead by the time it is cast OR they have to choose between killing this or Aether Vial.

So there is a quick run-through on Cephalid Life, apparently the only terrible matches the deck has are against turn 1x Blood Moon/ Magus of the Moon (which is why there is now 4x Chrome Mox in the deck). But it is a million-times more resistant to the normal hate that shuts down Spanish Inquisition, Belcher, TES or any other storm combo deck and is just as explosive as those decks are! Sleeve it up and give it a try, it is a very solid deck. I welcome any and all constructive criticism.

[from Cairo]

Has the Spiritualist + Sanctum combo proved worth the slots? The Breakfast with Goyfs and Sutured Ghoul seemed to make use of him to provide needed defense until the combo assembled. It also offered more protection/search through FoW and Ponder.

I guess the question is are you finding having two combos that you can piece together to be more beneficial than more protection/search for the combo that actually wins the game?

[emidln]

While it is more resistant to hate for storm combo than SI, this deck loses to STP, Daze, and Pithing Needle infinitely more. Add in that this deck dies to its own mulligans more than anything else in recent memory, and you have the recipe for a deck that can't protect itself from early countermagic (the primary difference between Legacy and Extended is the presence of Daze and Force of Will), is vulnerable to common hate, and loses to itself. Why you would play this over SI, TES, or Belcher I have no idea.

[Pulp_Fiction]

While it is more resistant to hate for storm combo than SI, this deck loses to STP, Daze, and Pithing Needle infinitely more. Add in that this deck dies to its own mulligans more than anything else in recent memory, and you have the recipe for a deck that can't protect itself from early countermagic (the primary difference between Legacy and Extended is the presence of Daze and Force of Will), is vulnerable to common hate, and loses to itself. Why you would play this over SI, TES, or Belcher I have no idea.

Honestly it depends on your meta, if you expect a lot of Dragon Stompy, Stax, or Threshold it would be smart to avoid Belcher or SI. I am not really sure about TES because I have built it up and goldfished it around 50 times and it just didnt seem as explosive and consistent as SI is. Really, this deck is a lot better than it seems and Pithing Needle alone doesn't do anything to this deck, there needs to be at least 2 or 3 in play to have any effect and the same goes for Engineered Plague. StP sucks, no lies there its bad, but most people know how to bait StP out so as they can go off or you can just Cabal Therapy it out of their hand. I am in no way saying this is superior to SI or Belcher because I don't think it is, but I know from playing it a little that it tends to shine in matchups that would normally be an autoloss for most storm combos. And it can be just as fast as those decks can, a turn 1 kill is possible but highly unlikely, and it can reliably go off turns 2-4 every time. Regarding your statement about counterspells, it really just depends how many they have and if you have Living Wish, Aether Vial, or Cabal Therapy. Threshold is not a very difficult match for this deck, especially after sideboard and Dragon Stompy, from what I can tell, is a coinflip as to who goes first and you must mulligan into either Vial of Mox.

[Pulp_Fiction]

Has the Spiritualist + Sanctum combo proved worth the slots? The Breakfast with Goyfs and Sutured Ghoul seemed to make use of him to provide needed defense until the combo assembled. It also offered more protection/search through FoW and Ponder.

I guess the question is are you finding having two combos that you can piece together to be more beneficial than more protection/search for the combo that actually wins the game?

Well both combos essentially win the game unless you are against something like Enchantress, High Tide/Mill, or in some impossible Solitary Confinement lock. But I really haven't played it enough to answer that question fully. I would much prefer to play this version because literally everything it draws is a combo piece or finds them (aside from drawing Narcomoeba, Karmic Guide, Kiki, or Sky Hussar). I also have never been a fan of FoW in the Breakfast deck, I understand it is there to protect the combo, but why would you need a counter when you can just make the combo harder to disrupt and win sooner. Further testing will tell if this deck is worthy of play in Legacy.

[Piceli89]

So, is this deck really fragile ? I liked the original concept, but no one seems to care about it. I found a list on deckcheck which made top 8 on a medium tournament (ancient memory convention), and it seems to be at least interesting, even if there are some oddities which will probably depend on meta.
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=14228

creatures-22
4 Cephalid Illusionist
4 Daru Spiritualist
1 Hearth Kami
4 Narcomoeba
4 Nomads en-Kor
4 Street Wraith
1 Sutured Ghoul

instant [8]
4 Brainstorm
4 Worldly Tutor

sorcery [5]
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Dread Return

enchantment [1]
1 Dragon Breath

artifact [8]
4 Aether Vial

4 Shuko

land [16]

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Starlit Sanctum
4 Undiscovered Paradise

I think that this list has potential, since it runs 4x shuko which are only needable / stiflable and doesn't run out versus the omnipresent stp and , in general, creature removal. Hearth kami of course is a metagame choice.
The bad things concern the manabase ( that 4 undiscovered paradises are horrible, it's not TES which has plenty of manasources, we still require some mana to win), the narcomoebas could be cut to 3x , so the therapies, and maybe additional removal could sound good here. I was wondering to run condemn which acts as a weaker StP but it can also combo without that fucking sanctum and can take care of pesky goyfs and aggro creatures ( and medling mages , gaddocks, confidants..).
The engine worldly tutor+ street wraith is nice, but brainstorm should need more shuffle effects...
And iin testing i desperately need more, more protection since 4 therapies are shitty compared to the large amount of counters / removals played in legacy, so i was wondering if some duresses could sound nice here.

I'd like to stick with this deck for a bit and try to make it as competitive as possible because it's cheap and quite protected (vials are amazing), so i 'd like to know if someone has worked on lists which provide sufficient consistency and can give me some advices in tuning this deck against the general blue based nerddecks..
Thanks !

[BlindMage]

If Cabal Therapy doesn't cut it for protection, what about Orim's Chant?

[chokin]

Abeyance does better than Chant imo since it beats Tormod's Crypt and Relic. Unless you wanna put in Needle. It costs one more, but it covers more ground and draws you a card.

[Piceli89]

Abeyance costs too much for this deck, as i said the mana resources of this deck are already limited (also because we run a very fragile manabase). I thought to orim's chant too, but the really concern of this deck are the counters and the instant removals which comes onto the heads of our comboers when the time is come to go off , so the ideal thing would be having some reactive disruption (counters), and if thery were for free, they'd even be more nutty.
So the choice gets resrtictions to the blue staples: FoW, daze and pact of negation.
Fow can't be really exploited in this deck, since we run few blue cards; daze is out of range 'cause we don't play islands. The only thing avaiable would be PoN, even if i fear about its little " drawback" ( the 3UU cost) if we'd lose a counterwar while comboing.
Well, I'm happy to see that someone answered my call , at least :tongue:

[GreenOne]

Why not playing Wispmare instead of Kami?
It's not needleable (sp?), nor counterbanceable (omg sp??), and it costs 1 less.

[Kuma]

First off, I've played a lot of Cephalid Breakfast, and I can tell you that even with Thoughtseize, Daze, FoW, Counterbalance, and Cabal Therapy in the main, and Pernicious Deed, Echoing Truth, Abeyance, and Krosan Grip in the sideboard, the deck has incredible difficulty playing through hate.

Breakfast is vulnerable to every kind of hate imaginable. Pithing Needle shuts off en-Kors and Kiki-Jiki (a huge reason to run the Ghoul kill, yes, I know you don't have goyfs. That doesn't mean the deck wouldn't be better with them.) Tormod's Crypt stops the kill, Chalice at one is nearly backbreaking, and Engineered Plague on Cephalid, or Wizard stops the kill entirely, while an Engineered Plague on Human or Cleric stops the life combo. Creature removal makes your life miserable as do counterspells. Your mana base is incredibly fragile...

I could continue, but the biggest problem with Cephalid anything is that you have too many weaknesses. At least with Tarmogoyf and Counterbalance you have a strong backup plan that isn't as fragile as the combo. How you can even run this without Force of Will boggles my mind. You literally have no protection at all and no disruption for your opponent, save two Cabal Therapy.

I've also played Life.dec almost since the cards were printed, and you can't sit on infinite life and win. You have to be able to kill your opponent, or have a backup plan, else you run the risk of losing to the clock. You do have the Breakfast kill, but you'll only be able to establish it versus the most removal light decks, since you'll have already spent so many resources and tempo getting infinite life. A smart opponent playing a removal heavy deck won't concede to infinite life unless they have less cards in their deck, which you need to keep in mind.

If you insist on developing this deck, I have a few suggestions:

1. Shuko is terrible, even as a one of. If you were running an Enlightened Tutor toolbox, it would be different, but as is, all it does is open your combo up to artifact hate as well as creature hate. They'll just save their removal for your Illusionists and Spiritualists. Shuko also equips as a Sorcery, which allows them to remove your targetable creature before you can go infinite.

2. Playing Chrome Mox is very risky, and the upside seems limited in a four color deck. I have a friend who plays Life.dec with Lotus Petals, and while it speeds him up, it makes him that much more vulnerable to one removal spell. If you want to be the Belcher of life decks, then by all means, keep playing it.

3. Starlit Sanctums should really only count as half lands towards your mana base, and probably not even that in a four color deck. You should really add two more lands. Also, I know it's expensive, but if you're serious about playing life combo, get a Diamond Valley for the wishboard. I'd also consider running a fetch and dual mana base. I never had much mana screw doing that with Aether Vial in the deck. It'll make your Brainstorms and Vaults better too.

4. Run Force of Will and the Ghoul combo. Those cards are legacy staples anyway, and it's a much, much better kill.

5. I don't understand the 2/1 split of Worldly Tutor and Eladamri's call. Can you explain it?

6. Kami of Ancient Law does nothing to Dredge unless you have an enchantment in play for it to target. Run Wispmare like GreenOne suggested.

7. Shreikmaw >> Bone Shredder. Less mana and can also steal games.

8. You need more protection somewhere. You just don't have enough protection. Pernicious Deed is amazing in this deck. I know it seems counterintuitive, but it wipes out Needles, Crypts, and Chalices easy and can save your life when you're behind on tempo. I'd also replace a Harmonic Sliver with a Vexing Shusher at the very least.

[Moczoc]

I'm glad to see this thread here, I was about to necro it too.

I'm an old Life.dec player and some weeks ago, I made it a Cephalid-Life. A few days ago, I played it in a big Legacy tournament and I went 2-2-2-drop (In fact it was 1-3-2 because when I was comboing out and winning the last game we realized that I forgot to put a Nomad back into the SB that I had wished for game2 :tongue: and it got a gameloss)
My matchups were Survival, Dredge and four blue based control decks with countertop like Thrash, Fish etc.
The deck was quite good and fun to play, I'm personally to blame for most losses because I played spells in the wrong order, didn't look right at the starthand and other stupid things.

My list:

Creatures
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Sky Hussar
2 Narcomoeba
1 AEthersnipe
3 Daru Spiritualist
3 Nomads en-Kor
1 Shaman en-Kor
3 Cephalid Illusionist
1 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Karmic Guide

Spells
3 Duress
2 Shuko
4 AEther Vial
1 Bridge from Below
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Living Wish
3 Worldly Tutor
4 Eladamri's Call
1 Dread Return

Lands
4 City of Brass
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 Tarnished Citadel
4 Starlit Sanctum
4 Gemstone Mine

Sideboard
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Diamond Valley
3 Seal of Cleansing
1 Daru Spiritualist
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Nomads en-Kor
1 Warrior en-Kor
1 Cephalid Illusionist
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Crookclaw Transmuter
1 False Prophet
1 Morphling
1 Stern Proctor


-> some choices explained:

Bridge from Below: makes sure that you can play all you Therapys after milling your library.

Kiki-Hussar-Combo: Wins even through big armys and after you created a billion Hussar tokens, your Kiki is untapped once again, so you can tap him for another copy of Karmic which gets the Aethersnipe into play. He can bounce nasty things like Propaganda, Ensnaring Bridge, Elephantgrass, Pariah, Worship.

Crookclaw Transmuter and Morphling: Win conditions for the "infinite life situation"

Ancient Grudge: I boarded this blindly after every first game to fight Needles. It's just good that the opponent will waste 4 slots game 2 and maybe 3 for these.

Seal of Cleasing: Can be dropped early to kill hatecards or Counterbalance. I boarded it very often and it proved to be usefull.


Now, after the tournament I consider to some little changes:

- 1 Starlit Sanctum
- 1 Worldly Tutor
- 1 "I don't know yet"

+ 1 Tarnished Citadel
+ 1 Duress
+ 1 Narcomoeba

[Piceli89]

I'm glad to see this thread here, I was about to necro it too.

I'm an old Life.dec player and some weeks ago, I made it a Cephalid-Life. A few days ago, I played it in a big Legacy tournament and I went 2-2-2-drop (In fact it was 1-3-2 because when I was comboing out and winning the last game we realized that I forgot to put a Nomad back into the SB that I had wished for game2 :tongue: and it got a gameloss)
My matchups were Survival, Dredge and four blue based control decks with countertop like Thrash, Fish etc.
The deck was quite good and fun to play, I'm personally to blame for most losses because I played spells in the wrong order, didn't look right at the starthand and other stupid things.

My list:

Creatures
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Sky Hussar
2 Narcomoeba
1 AEthersnipe
3 Daru Spiritualist
3 Nomads en-Kor
1 Shaman en-Kor
3 Cephalid Illusionist
1 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Karmic Guide

Spells
3 Duress
2 Shuko
4 AEther Vial
1 Bridge from Below
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Living Wish
3 Worldly Tutor
4 Eladamri's Call
1 Dread Return

Lands
4 City of Brass
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 Tarnished Citadel
4 Starlit Sanctum
4 Gemstone Mine

Sideboard
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Diamond Valley
3 Seal of Cleansing
1 Daru Spiritualist
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Nomads en-Kor
1 Warrior en-Kor
1 Cephalid Illusionist
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Crookclaw Transmuter
1 False Prophet
1 Morphling
1 Stern Proctor


-> some choices explained:

Bridge from Below: makes sure that you can play all you Therapys after milling your library.

Kiki-Hussar-Combo: Wins even through big armys and after you created a billion Hussar tokens, your Kiki is untapped once again, so you can tap him for another copy of Karmic which gets the Aethersnipe into play. He can bounce nasty things like Propaganda, Ensnaring Bridge, Elephantgrass, Pariah, Worship.

Crookclaw Transmuter and Morphling: Win conditions for the "infinite life situation"

Ancient Grudge: I boarded this blindly after every first game to fight Needles. It's just good that the opponent will waste 4 slots game 2 and maybe 3 for these.

Seal of Cleasing: Can be dropped early to kill hatecards or Counterbalance. I boarded it very often and it proved to be usefull.


Now, after the tournament I consider to some little changes:

- 1 Starlit Sanctum
- 1 Worldly Tutor
- 1 "I don't know yet"

+ 1 Tarnished Citadel
+ 1 Duress
+ 1 Narcomoeba



Living wish, Eladamri's call and worldly tutor ? seems a bit too much creature-tutoring overkill to me. And the combo with hussar occupies too slots, it's better the one with the sutured ghoul.
For the Narcomoebas, i'm still convinced that it's right to play them in 3x because in 4x they could become shitty (especially if you have them in hand), but aren't 2 -ofs a bit too few? Gonna test that, but..
Even the bridge from below is quite useless if you combo out with ghoul, so it could be another slot saved.

[Pulp_Fiction]

Well, the thing is, this deck can easily fight through hate cards, but the problem is it is vulnerable to everything. I quit playing this deck after Extirpate was printed. Now this deck can get around grave hate easily by just doing the life combo. Also, descriding this deck is very difficult, StP can really hurt and the manabase is just garbage. Personally, if you have Diamond Valley Life.dec would be a lot better alternative since it is more resilient. A lot of people don't realize how much this deck dies to Engineered Plague. Life.dec has the same problems but it is better at clogging up the board and surviving the early game and its manabase doesn't destroy it. As earlier said by emidIn this deck mulligans like absolute shit.

Now that I have said that there are a few cards that I really feel HAVE to be in the deck:

Living Wish: Run no fewer than 3 copies, it keeps the card count in the MD low and provides answeres to nearly every possible scenario.

Chrome Mox/Mox Diamond: Turn 1 Blood Moon almost always = GG and Loam + Wasteland can destroy the deck. It needs some form of permanent mana source. I despise the card disadvantage of Chrome Mox and playing 22 lands + 4 Mox Diamond seems like a terrible idea. Can anyone think of a better permanent mana adder that costs 1 or less?

On the topic of Bridge from Below, I would have to test the card out but I think 2x Narcomoeba and 1x Bridge would be spectacular. When comboing out it is amazing since you are able to empty your opponent's hand everytime as well as the ability to empty your if you have a combo piece. The Sutured Ghoul kill is the best since earlier versions ran 13/13 creatures or Goyfs to pump it up but those really aren't necessary. The deck has potential but I am not sure how competetive we can make it.

But, in regard to the SB, 3x Absolute Law and 4x Leyline of Lifeforce/Vexing Shusher are required.

[GreenOne]

If you wana play the Ghoul version without goyfs it's probably possible with 4 Street Wraiths (counting all the other critters in the decks it's something like 25 power of critters)

[Kuma]

Well, the thing is, this deck can easily fight through hate cards, but the problem is it is vulnerable to everything. I quit playing this deck after Extirpate was printed. Now this deck can get around grave hate easily by just doing the life combo. Also, describing this deck is very difficult, StP can really hurt and the mana base is just garbage. Personally, if you have Diamond Valley Life.dec would be a lot better alternative since it is more resilient. A lot of people don't realize how much this deck dies to Engineered Plague. Life.dec has the same problems but it is better at clogging up the board and surviving the early game and its manabase doesn't destroy it. As earlier said by emidln this deck mulligans like absolute shit.

I see where you're coming from. When I first started playing Cephalid Breakfast and won a few tournaments, I was all like, "Yeah! Cephalid Breakfast can play through anything. It feels like cheating." The important thing to realize is that while it can play through anything, it can't always play through everything.

The life combo does help you avoid graveyard hate, but graveyard hate is actually the least of Cephalid Breakfast's worries. Cephalid Breakfast also mulligans pretty well, which is something you lose by running the hybrid version.

I think you'd solve a lot of problems by running FoW, Krosan Grip, and Pernicious Deed. I think you'd solve even more by running Cephalid Breakfast. When you have only one combo, you don't need Living Wish, and you can have a full sideboard.

I suggest this manabase for your current version:

Lands 22:
3x Tundra
3x Underground Sea
1x Plains
1x Island
1x Savannah
1x Tropical Island
1x Scrubland
4x Flooded Strand
2x Windswept Heath
2x Polluted Delta
3x Starlit Sanctum

That seems fine without needing Chrome Mox, and you don't auto-lose to moons and wastelock.


On the topic of Bridge from Below, I would have to test the card out but I think 2x Narcomoeba and 1x Bridge would be spectacular. When comboing out it is amazing since you are able to empty your opponent's hand everytime as well as the ability to empty your if you have a combo piece. The Sutured Ghoul kill is the best since earlier versions ran 13/13 creatures or Goyfs to pump it up but those really aren't necessary. The deck has potential but I am not sure how competetive we can make it.

Usually, you want to Therapy while you have cards in your deck not after. The odds of flipping Bridge before Narcomoeba isn't high enough to be worth it IMO. Bridge is terrible. It's a dead draw everytime, and it does nothing as a backup win condition. Stick with what you've got.


But, in regard to the SB, 3x Absolute Law and 4x Leyline of Lifeforce/Vexing Shusher are required.

Vexing Shusher seems way better than Leyline of Lifeforce to me since you can wish and tutor for it. If you'd run goyfs, you wouldn't need Absolute Law since you could re-direct burn damage from your en-Kors to it. You can also do that with Daru Spiritualist now.

[Pulp_Fiction]

Alright, I am in Kansas visiting relatives and thus, I have nothing to do because I am in Kansas so I have been thinking a little about this deck. Very odd timing since a few days ago I was really looking into building Life.dec. Anyway, with all this free time I came up with the following:

3x Cephalid Illusionist
3x Nomads en-Kor
2x Shaman en-Kor
3x Daru Spiritualist
3x Narcomoeba (for now, 1x Bridge will be tested out later)
1x Sutured Ghoul
3x Tarmogoyf

4x Living Wish
4x Eladamri's Call
4x Aether Vial
3x Cabal Therapy
1x Dread Return
1x Dragon's Breath
2x Mox Diamond
1x Worldly Tutor

4x Flooded Strand
4x Windswept Heath
3x Polluted Delta
1x Tundra
1x Taiga
1x Underground Sea
2x Savannah
1x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
2x Starlit Sanctum
1x Plains
1x Forest

Sideboard
1x Diamond Valley
1x Nomads en-Kor
1x Shaman en-Kor
1x Daru Spiritualist
1x Cephalid Illusionist
1x Shriekmaw
2x Harmonic Sliver
1x Volrath's Stronghold
3x Vexing Shusher
3x Open Slots

I was thinking a lot about the pitfalls of the original deck and I realized how much I hate Brainstorm in the deck. There are times when I just want to draw a Tutor or something and all I ever seemed to Brainstorm into was more pointless spells. Yes it allows you to put back drawn combo pieces but since the piece count is so low with Sutured Ghoul that it really doesn't matter. I tried to make sure every card in the deck will have an immediate effect when it comes into play and actually matters. The backup plan of Tarmogoyf never hurts and they add +15 to Ghoul. One thing that does concern me is that the deck has no solid answer to Maze of Ith, however, against Eternal Garden/Lands! you can just fetch basics and go the Life route since you will deck them anyway. Then again this is not exactly a very commonly played deck so I am not sure if this matters.

The SB is still in the works and I REALLY want a Ingot Chewer and Wispmare in there due to their Evoke costs but for now Harmonic Sliver has all the bases covered (2x so you can side 1 in and keep 1 in the board). With a Diamond Valley in the SB why would you ever wish for Starlit Sanctum? The deck has no use for colorless mana and if you can cast Wish for a land then you should be ok for everything else. This is still a work in progress but I feel it has gotten a LOT better. Playing 22 lands seems to be the right idea. I am not sure I am sold on the Mox Diamonds but I really feel the deck should have some form of protection from a turn 1 Moon and You can't always rely on Vial being in your opening hand. Shusher (who wasn't printed yet when this deck was played in extended) gives the deck a LOT of answers to control. He makes it almost completely immune to counterspells and he is spectacular against Chalice of the Void. I really think he has to be in the side. I would love Absolute Law in the SB BUT since it gives all creatures pro-red you can no longer kill in 1 turn VIA Dragon Breath since the Dread Returned Ghoul has pro-red. I am not sure how big this problem is since against something like Goblins you are able to clog up with board with pro-red creatures and against burn you can just clear their hand of burn spells and win next turn. Of course, this can leave you in really bad shape but I think it is certainly something worth testing.

[Moczoc]

bridge from below is quite useless if you combo out with ghoul

??? I don't think you'v understand the function of the bridge.



Chrome Mox/Mox Diamond: Turn 1 Blood Moon almost always = GG and Loam + Wasteland can destroy the deck. It needs some form of permanent mana source. I despise the card disadvantage of Chrome Mox and playing 22 lands + 4 Mox Diamond seems like a terrible idea. Can anyone think of a better permanent mana adder that costs 1 or less?

But, in regard to the SB, 3x Absolute Law and 4x Leyline of Lifeforce/Vexing Shusher are required.

Recurring Wastelands are a quite slow engine and against Blood Moon you still have Vial. I rather don't play Chrome Mox because it eats up your cards. Cards you'll propably need later.
FoW causes these problems too, and it also requires you to play little blue (luck-based) cantrips instead of reliable tutors.

Absolute Law is an interesting idea. But I think Xantid Swarm would be better than Leyline or Shusher.



Usually, you want to Therapy while you have cards in your deck not after. The odds of flipping Bridge before Narcomoeba isn't high enough to be worth it IMO. Bridge is terrible. It's a dead draw everytime, and it does nothing as a backup win condition. Stick with what you've got.


I don't agree with that at all. I always therapy my opponent after milling my library to get the StP's and FoW's out of his hand. And I often therapy myself to get combopieces into the graveyard.
And it really doesn't matter what you flip first because you get the tokens from bridge when something hits the yard, not when something comes into play. It's a dead draw, but that is a moeba too.


One thing that does concern me is that the deck has no solid answer to Maze of Ith

So, this is a point one the "pro"-side for the Kiki combo ;)

[Pulp_Fiction]

I originally preferred the Ghoul combo, then I went to the Kiki combo but it is not immune to anything. Pithing Needle stops that combo cold. Now a smart player will usually name Nomads en-Kor but it greatly depends on their hand and what they are able to deal with. But the fact that the Kiki combo has so many dead draws just over turns it as a viable combo kill. When I ran it i just kept drawing Karmic Guides and shit, where as with the Ghoul Kill all you can draw is: Sutured Ghoul, Dread Return, or Dragon Breath. The Ghoul is just the better kill and in particular Tarmogoyfs add a LOT of extra power to the deck.

As far as relying on Vial against Moon effects, GL, I thought that too. I originally played Breakfast and was slaughtered by the deck, mulling to Aether Vial against them is not an option. What about turn 1 CotV turn 2 Moon? This is a very common thing with the deck. Vial won't always be there and even then, you have to rely on drawing 1/3 Illusionists and 1/5 en-Kor creatures since you can't cast you spells. Turn 2 Moon effect does give you a brief chance to fetch out a basic though. I am really liking the new manabase. 22 lands (contrary to what I thought) seems to be the way to go. I really hate a 4c Fetchland manabase but it is a lot better than the gold lands.

[Moczoc]

Yes, I get what you mean, dead draws suck. I did some tests and Tarmogoyf proved to be a nice wall that draws the opponents attention. And with Shuko your Goyf can beat through the opponent ones (while you have infinite life).
I will change my deck to a list that is a mix of yours and my old one. Still imho 3 Narcomoeba is not enough, I lost games when my opponent stifled its cip ability and I had not enough creatures to empty his hand. I'd add a Moeba or even better but nearly the same: a Bridge.

Your manabase seems overextended to me, with a gold-land-base of 14 "any type" producers and 4 coloress I only had few mana problems. I think the best will be 4 City of Brass, 4 Gemstone Mine, 3 Sanctum and for the rest 8 fetches/duals/basics.

[Kuma]

I don't agree with that at all. I always therapy my opponent after milling my library to get the StP's and FoW's out of his hand. And I often therapy myself to get combopieces into the graveyard.
And it really doesn't matter what you flip first because you get the tokens from bridge when something hits the yard, not when something comes into play. It's a dead draw, but that is a moeba too.

Narcomoebas can be played from your hand. Bridge not so much.

The problem with playing Cabal Therapy after your deck is milled is that you run the risk of losing the game. Suppose you've milled your deck and your board is Nomads en-Kor, Cephalid Illusionist, and three Narcomoebas. You sacrifice the Illusionist to flashback Therapy naming Swords to Plowshares. Your opponent responds by StPing two of your other creatures leaving you one creature short of a Dread Return with an empty library.

Or suppose you Therapy with no library and your opponent casts Orim's Chant or Extirpate.

These are a few of the reasons why you're better served casting Therapy before you mill yourself entirely. It lets you know what you have to play through, and if your opponent stops you, you can still recover.

That's why Bridge from Below is bad. Because you shouldn't be Therapying with an empty library.

[GoldenCid]

Hi! I constructing a primitive non fow non goyf cephalid deck. What do you recomend me??? Chek out the list! Help is really needed:

2 Chaman en-Kor
2 Krosan cloudscraper
4 Cephalid illusionist
3 Narcomoeba
1 Sutured ghoul
4 Nomads en-Kor

4 Polluted delta
4 Flooded strand
3 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea


1 Dragon breath
4 Aether vial
4 Brainstorm
2 Eldamri's call
3 Ponder
1 Dread return
4 Cabal therapy
4 Worldly tutor
4 Daze

SB

4 Duress
3 Absolute law
4 Orim's chant
4 Echoing truth

[Nihil Credo]

It doesn't really help if you're shooting for a budget build (then again, you have Chants / duals / fetches, so...) but since you cut Force of Will for the gods know what reason, you could run a playset of Stifles in the maindeck and use Phyrexian Dreadnoughts as Ghoul food, which gets you a second combo in the main deck (if you play 4x Noughts you can also pull off the Vial trick to get one into play).

[GoldenCid]

It doesn't really help if you're shooting for a budget build (then again, you have Chants / duals / fetches, so...) but since you cut Force of Will for the gods know what reason, you could run a playset of Stifles in the maindeck and use Phyrexian Dreadnoughts as Ghoul food, which gets you a second combo in the main deck (if you play 4x Noughts you can also pull off the Vial trick to get one into play).

I cut fow because the primer and the money :cry: ....
Maybe i should run the 5 colours life cephalid to get 2 win conditions...shouldn't i??
Ghoul combo is better than kiki - jiki + husar combo in the life cephalid??

[Pulp_Fiction]

Here is based on the deck I used to run but it is updated since I didn't have Goyfs at the time. I made 2 top 4 splits out of about 4-5 times of playing the deck with 2x Krosan Cloud Scrapers and 1x Lim-Dul's Vault and 1x Cabal Therapy in place of 4x Goyf:

4x Cephalid Illusionist
4x Nomads en-Kor
3x Shaman en-Kor
1x Sutured Ghoul
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Narcomoeba

4x Aether Vial
4x Brainstorm
2x Worldly Tutor
3x Abeyance
1x Dread Return
1x Dragon's Breath
2x Cabal Therapy
1x Lim-Dul's Vault
3x Eldamri's Call

4x Gemstone Mine
4x City of Brass
4x Forbidden Orchard
3x Tarnished Citadel
2x Tropical Island/Any U/G dual land
2x Tundra/Any U/W dual land
1x Volrath's Stronghold

I would not recommend this version though. It was fairly consistent but it did have quite a few problems against Dragon Stompy and can be raced by Burn (since they can kill your creatures) but Abeyance helps a LOT since you can't be Crypted, Extirpated, etc. but is better than Orim's Chant in this deck since they can't play their hate cards when you combo off or activate their hate cards! The problem with the deck is it never works how you think it will and even upping the Abeyance count to 4x it is very difficult to reliably find Abeyance + combo in the early turns. I think the Cephalid Life deck everyone is working towards in infinitely better than this version though.

[Moczoc]

@Kuma: Don't get me wrong, I will always "hardcast" discardspells on my opp. before comboing when I draw/hold them. But often you don't draw them and this deck can't afford to wait several turns.
In your example I would get a nice little zombietoken when casting Therapy ;) so I would have 3 creatures again (with the help of Bridge)

@Pulp_Fiction: I tested an only dual/fetch/basic manabase and directly walked into some stifles who screwed me. I a fucking dilemma.
I didn't test them yet, but maybe the Lair lands would be a good inclusion in Cephalid-Life. At the moment, I still play my gold land base because it makes hard for the oppenent to cut you off you an important color with wasteland and in my metagame there are more people who play stifle than people who play "moon" cards.
And a question to you: What do you board out if you're going to lets say put 3 Shusher and a H. Sliver in?
Another possible SB card, I just discovered: Devout Witness, seems great at least theoretical.


My newest list looks like this:

Creatures
3 Cephalid Illusionist
3 Nomads en-Kor
3 Daru Spiritualist
3 Narcomoeba
1 Sutured Ghoul
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Shaman en-Kor

Spells
4 Living Wish
4 Eladamri's Call
4 AEther Vial
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Dread Return
1 Dragon Breath
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Bridge from Below
2 Shuko
2 Duress

Lands
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Starlit Sanctum
4 City of Brass
2 Tarnished Citadel
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 Savannah

Sideboard
1 Cephalid Illusionist
1 Nomads en-Kor
1 Daru Spiritualist
1 False Prophet
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Morphling
1 Crookclaw Transmuter
1 Warrior en-Kor
1 Diamond Valley
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Stern Proctor
1 Wispmare
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Shriekmaw


@GoldenCid: It would be not hard to make a budget version of my list:

MD:
- 4 Tarmogoyf
+1 Worldly Tutor
+1 Duress
+2 Krosan Cloudscraper

SB:
-1 Diamond Valley
+1 Starlit Sanctum

[GoldenCid]

@GoldenCid: It would be not hard to make a budget version of my list:

MD:
- 4 Tarmogoyf
+1 Worldly Tutor
+1 Duress
+2 Krosan Cloudscraper

SB:
-1 Diamond Valley
+1 Starlit Sanctum

Ok thx!!! I'm realising that the combo kamic guide + kiki - jiki + hussar is not preferred against ghoul combo...right??

[Pulp_Fiction]

Basically, the Kiki kill is cute but unless you regularly encounter Maze of Ith it should be the preferred kill. Infinite tokens are really not necessary, especially against Prison effects which are a lot more common. But mainly you play the Ghoul kill since you have less dead draws.

[GoldenCid]

Basically, the Kiki kill is cute but unless you regularly encounter Maze of Ith it should be the preferred kill. Infinite tokens are really not necessary, especially against Prison effects which are a lot more common. But mainly you play the Ghoul kill since you have less dead draws.

I suppoused that...so if maze of ith appears the kiki kill is preferred against ghoul kill. Would you put kiki, husar and karmic in the sb to make the change in game 2? or in case of seeing maze in game 1 you just win through the life way??
Another. I've been tested some match the deck and i found that the life way is commoner than the ghoul way to victory. Is it a cassuality??? or you so the same??

[Kuma]

In your example I would get a nice little zombietoken when casting Therapy ;) so I would have 3 creatures again (with the help of Bridge)

Or you could flashback Therapy before your library is empty and not run more dead draws than you have to. You'll only get the token if you mill Bridge before Therapy, or if you mill your entire library. The former is unlikely, and the latter is foolish.

Bridge might get you out of the 2x StP situation, but so does smart play. Bridge does nothing against Chant/Extirpate.

@Pulp_Fiction: If you're going to cut the life combo, here's the best Cephalid Breakfast list I've come up with:

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [A] Tundra
3 [A] Tropical Island
3 [A] Underground Sea

// Creatures
4 [TO] Cephalid Illusionist
4 [SH] Nomads en-Kor
1 [SH] Shaman en-Kor
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [FUT] Narcomoeba
1 [JU] Sutured Ghoul

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Brainstorm
2 [JU] Cabal Therapy
1 [TSP] Dread Return
1 [SC] Dragon Breath
3 [AL] Lim-Dul's Vault
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [NE] Daze

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [JU] Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 [CS] Counterbalance
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [WL] Abeyance
SB: 3 [LRW] Thoughtseize

[Moczoc]

Kiki-kill:

(+) infinite damage
(+) gets around Maze of Ith
(+) can bounce most nonland cards that prevents you from winning with Aethersnipe while comboing
(-) 4 dead draws
(-) you have to board 1 Ancient Grudge every game 2 and often game 3


Ghoul-kill:

(+) only 3 dead draws
(+) immune to Needle
(-) can't win through large armies

[GoldenCid]

Kiki-kill:

(+) infinite damage
(+) gets around Maze of Ith
(+) can bounce most nonland cards that prevents you from winning with Aethersnipe while comboing
(-) 4 dead draws
(-) you have to board 1 Ancient Grudge every game 2 and often game 3


Ghoul-kill:

(+) only 3 dead draws
(+) immune to Needle
(-) can't win through large armies

I think so...but ancient grudge for needle is needed in both cases..

[Pulp_Fiction]

@Pulp_Fiction: I tested an only dual/fetch/basic manabase and directly walked into some stifles who screwed me. I a fucking dilemma.
I didn't test them yet, but maybe the Lair lands would be a good inclusion in Cephalid-Life. At the moment, I still play my gold land base because it makes hard for the oppenent to cut you off you an important color with wasteland and in my metagame there are more people who play stifle than people who play "moon" cards.
And a question to you: What do you board out if you're going to lets say put 3 Shusher and a H. Sliver in?
Another possible SB card, I just discovered: Devout Witness, seems great at least theoretical.


The lair lands are not good. They make you even more vulnerable to Wasteland and that makes for a savage tempo loss. I still prefer the fetchable manabase but yes you are open to Stifle a little. I would probably board like this (based off of the last list you posted): -1 Eldamri's Call, -1 Shuko, -1 Daru Spiritualist, -1 Living Wish is you want to SB those for cards in. You can mix and match between Call and Wish, depending on what you side out/in it could be -2x Call or -2x Wish depending on which you gain a bigger advantage from. Devout Witness is to slow. Playing Harmonic Sliver, Monk Idealist, Wispmare, and Ingot Chewer would usually be better options since they are not affected by summoning sickness.

@Kuma: I am not suggesting that build at all, I was just pointing out a budget version of the deck which is the version I played before I got the more expensive cards required to build the deck.

[Moczoc]

I think so...but ancient grudge for needle is needed in both cases..

If you play the Kiki-kill, people will name Kiki Jiki with the Needle, and so you are required to remove it before you can kill him. (and the moste simple way is to leave 1 mana open, mill the library and play Grudge on Needle)

If you play the Ghoul-kill, people will most times name Nomads En-Kor. Then, in my version, you can just use another card for targeting (-> Shuko, Shaman En-Kor, Warrior En-Kor with Wish)

[GoldenCid]

Is there any dual based 15 -17 lands mana base (rather stable) for a ghoul / kiki combo plus combo life deck??

[Barsoom]

I think i can share there too my Cephalid Life budget combo deck that i recently build; it's budget, fun to play, and really REALLY fast goldfishing.
It obviously has problems against hate (no FoW), but if you a want a cheap and unique (2 combos in one deck it's an intriguing thing) combo deck to play, imho this is one of the best.

4 Cephalid Illusionist
4 Nomads en-Kor
1 Shaman en-Kor
3 Daru Spiritualist
3 Narcomoeba
1 Stern Proctor
1 Sutured Ghoul
1 Lord of Extinction

4 Aether Vial
4 Ponder
3 Duress
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Worldly Tutor
3 Eladamri's Call
3 Street Wraith
1 Dread Return
1 Dragon Breath

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Starlit Sanctum
1 Plain