[Deck] Slavebringer - V 2.0

[Jander78]

This is a new Combo-Control deck that I have been working on for a little while now. With the help and suggestions from DavidHernandez and LunchBox, we have gotten it to a point where is can compete against a variety of decks. It really abuses control, but has problems racing aggro.

Here is the decklist:
//Combo 14
3 Bringer of the White Dawn
3 Goblin Welder
2 Sundering Titan
2 Mindslaver
4 Animate Dead

//Control 11
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Duress

//Utility
1 Crucible of Worlds

//Draw/Search 10
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Intuition
3 Brainstorm

//Mana 24
4 Pentad Prism
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Darksteel Citadel
5 Island
1 Swamp

SB:
3 Echoing Truth
3 Blood Moon
4 Red Elemental Blast
2 Shattering Pulse
3 Chalice of the Void

Card description:

This deck focuses mainly around the card Mindslaver to infinitley lock your opponents turns down and beat him with a Bringer or his own cards.

Bringer of the White Dawn: This guy is what the deck is centered around. It is very possible to hard cast him by turn 3 with 1 Pentad Prism and 1 land of each color the deck supports. Otherwise the strategy is to use Animate Dead combined with Intuition or Thirst to bring him into play.

Goblin Welder: He is included for obvious reason. The main reason there is only three is due to the fact that he is suceptable to just about any form of hate that there is in 1.5.

Sundering Titan/Mindslaver: These are your win conditions. With a Bringer in play you have an infinite lock if you have or can get a Mindslaver in the graveyard. This also holds true with a Welder/Crucible/Citadel. Titan is included for being able to hose any multicolor deck as well as getting a large body into play.

Intuition: This card is tailored for this deck. It gets the cards you need where you want them. Intuition for Bringer/Bringer/Slaver will usually get you 2 Bringers in the yard and the Slaver into your hand. Then either hard cast the Slaver or use Thirst to throw it into the graveyard.

Thirst for Knowledge: Draw and adds to your graveyard. Nothing like casting Thirst at the end of your turn and ditching a Bringer and a Slaver only to Animate the Slaver on your turn.

Cards in question:
Fact or Fiction: Fact really looks good in this deck. In real play it gave me a headache as it was too slow where you would rather have redundant combo peices (ie. Welder) that are much faster.

Accumulated Knowledge: Seems like a natural fit when the deck already contains 3 Intuition. The problem with AK is that you generally want to use you Intuitions early on to get the combo peices into the graveyard. The draw was good, but it took up way too many slots in the deck that could be better focused on obtaining the combo.

Lotus Petal/Mox Diamond/Chrome Mox: I have tested all of these forms of acceleration and they just didn't cut it. Lotus Petal was the best of the 3, but really could mess up the mana because it is only a temporary mana source. Mox Diamond just wasn't good enough as it was really hard to actually cast. Chrome Mox meant you were ditching combo peices or draw to get it into play........

Low Artifact Count for Welder: Welder is in the deck mainly to obtain a lock. This is achieved via Crucible of Worlds and Darksteel Citadel. With 1 Intuition and a Welder in play, you will have an unlimited amount of uses out of the little red guy because you can keep bringin Citadels back into play.



This deck is very developmental. It has problems against aggro decks. This could probably be fixed in the sideboard, as it is right now prepaired heavily for control.

I would like to hear everyones comments/suggestions on what they think.

Thanks,
Rick

[Slay]

*Removed stupid necromancy foolishness*

Also, if you could find space for an enlightened Tutor, that would be practically a vampiric tutor for this deck. Maybe add one or two tundras to be fetched when needed?
-Slay

[Ray D 3]

If I were you Jander, I would make the deck partly survival based. It even gives you the ability to pull the classic spore frog lock on aggro, and pull your combo off before they can deal with the froggie.

Just what I would do. SotF is extremely powerful, so I would take every chance to abuse it I could.

[FyndhornBrownie]

If I were you Jander, I would make the deck partly survival based. It even gives you the ability to pull the classic spore frog lock on aggro, and pull your combo off before they can deal with the froggie.

Just what I would do. SotF is extremely powerful, so I would take every chance to abuse it I could.
But the deck isn't green-based, and needs to be for optimal use of survival.

[Di]

<3 this deck so far. It was a blast to play against it. Some suggestions:

-Raise the Welder count to 4. This quote:

The main reason there is only three is due to the fact that he is suceptable to just about any form of hate that there is in 1.5.
doesn't really make sense. If there is more hate, why would you lower the Welder count? Just gives you a worse chance of actually using them. Welder is too damn good in here to not have it as a 4-of.

-Try fixing the focus of the deck(Keyword:Try). What I mean is either go to a Slaver route or a Titan route, not both. Obviously this would have some flaws, as pure-Slaver needs more targets to swap out, which would require you to use more Crucible of Worlds so you can have Slaverlock more consistantly w/ Welder, but Sundering Titan is weak in monocolor matchups. I'd personally try sticking with Titan only and see how it works, as he's also better with Animate Dead and whatnot.

-It might be a stronger idea to remove counter in place of discard/removal. This deck seems to be a lot more proactive than it was reactive, as it liked to slam down cards really quickly and force things through. I'd think cards Unmask would be a strong choice in this case, as it would also give you a better shot at keeping a turn 1 Welder. Also, if you were to remove some of the blue cards in this deck, it'd be possible to add Dark Ritual, which I think would be really sexy in here.

As for your aggro problems, look to Pyroclasm, Massacre, Perish, Engineered Explosives, or Powder Keg. Chalice seems ok, but against many decks is also hinders you a bit too. Setting for 1 stops future Welders, Duress, and Brainstorms, and setting for 2 stops Animate.

[Bastian]

The deck definitly looks better Jander. I still hadn't the opportunity to test it but I'd do the following:

-take a crucible for another Welder. You don't have wastelands which means you're not using the crucible to its full potential and you're just packing a single copy, which means it gets harder to get it into play.

-add more artifacts. You really should need more cheap artifacts for the welders to sac. Take out 4 islands and put in 4 seats of the synod, lower the fetchland count and add another artifact land. That should be enough to use the welder reliably.

[Di]

-take a crucible for another Welder. You don't have wastelands which means you're not using the crucible to its full potential and you're just packing a single copy, which means it gets harder to get it into play.

Problem is, he needs Crucible to have the infinate Slaverlock. Of course, he could just add more artifacts.


add more artifacts. You really should need more cheap artifacts for the welders to sac. Take out 4 islands and put in 4 seats of the synod, lower the fetchland count and add another artifact land. That should be enough to use the welder reliably.

If he adds more artifact lands then he's just making Null rod that much better against him. I just think adding more artifacts in general, possibly lock components, would be better.

[Sims]

At the moment I feel Engineered Explosives will be one of your best assets vs. aggro, as in adition to the already tri-color nature of the deck, you run Pentad Prism. Easily allowing you to set Explosives at whatever you need. Powder keg might be a bit too slow to really do too much good. Pyroclasm and Massacre are probably what would be your most used Mass Removal spells (aside from using Explosives) against aggro, but they take up a lot of sideboard room unless you were to try and fit in a Burning Wish toolkit, which may be possible but it would probably require a hefty revamping of the deck structure (Although I have serious doubts as to how good Burning Wish would be in this deck.)

I do agree with Diablos in the Welder issue. Wouldn't it make sense to run as many welders as possible knowing that most decks have a way to answer them?? Yourself included in that should you use sweepers like Explosives and Pyroclasm. If you were to remove the reactive answers and replace them with Proactive answers, I agree that Unmask would probably be strong, but also wonder how Cabal Therapy would fit in the decks strategy.

As for focusing towards either Slaver or Titan... I really don't know... It's like your alternate win is still Creature based so it doesn't really sneak out of your primary goal and catch your opponent off guard, so I dunno how it pays to have both in the deck at once... But then again, focusing towards one or the other might make the deck too easily hateable.

Just my .02 of rambling, enjoy.

Edit: I would strongly advise against removing the Crucible. Regardless of how many cheap artifacts or artifact lands you add to screw your mana base over with, you still can't infinitely lock them with slaver without Crucible of Worlds. Now, obviously you can attempt to draw into more and lock them for long enough to win... but the Infinite lock is much, much more reliable and the Crucible makes it easy to get your lands back after wastes and such. See also: Fetchlands + Crucible = deck full of threats/answers.



Edited By CorruptedAngel on 1099868553

[Ray D 3]

If I were you Jander, I would make the deck partly survival based. It even gives you the ability to pull the classic spore frog lock on aggro, and pull your combo off before they can deal with the froggie.

Just what I would do. SotF is extremely powerful, so I would take every chance to abuse it I could.
But the deck isn't green-based, and needs to be for optimal use of survival.
I was suggesting to make it green based. SotF is too good to ignore imo.

[Di]

Posted: Nov. 07 2004,6:00

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (FyndhornBrownie @ Nov. 07 2004,4:43)
Quote (Ray D 3 @ Nov. 07 2004,4:35)
If I were you Jander, I would make the deck partly survival based. It even gives you the ability to pull the classic spore frog lock on aggro, and pull your combo off before they can deal with the froggie.

Just what I would do. SotF is extremely powerful, so I would take every chance to abuse it I could.

But the deck isn't green-based, and needs to be for optimal use of survival.

I was suggesting to make it green based. SotF is too good to ignore imo.

What the hell does Survival have to do with Sundering Titan and Mindslaver? In this case, it's just an inferior and slower way of putting Bringer and Titan in the graveyard.

Just because the cards are great doesn't mean they deserve a slot in every deck, which is why there isn't any FoF in here, or in GAT for that case.

[Sims]

Making this deck green based would be..... bad...

You would be shifting your base to green, which means a total revamp of your mana base and then you have to add in Survival and things to make the engine worthwhile. This turns the deck into Welder Survival and loses you, most likely, the duress/animates that the deck uses to help pull off the win. If you want a green based Survival deck with Welder and tricks.... go TnT/Welder Survival.... Green, in my oppinion, has absolutely no place in a deck that's goal is to bring about an infinite slaver lock.

Edit: Posted as Di was



Edited By CorruptedAngel on 1099869575

[Jander78]

Thanks for all the great feedback!


If I were you Jander, I would make the deck partly survival based. It even gives you the ability to pull the classic spore frog lock on aggro, and pull your combo off before they can deal with the froggie.

Just what I would do. SotF is extremely powerful, so I would take every chance to abuse it I could.
Funny thing is.........This started off trying to abuse Survival/Welder/Fact or Fiction/Force of Will. It started as a joke that peter_rotten said to try and use all of the "broken" cards in the format and mash them all into one. That failed miserably, but it eventually ended up morphing into what I have today.


-Raise the Welder count to 4. This quote:

The main reason there is only three is due to the fact that he is suceptable to just about any form of hate that there is in 1.5.
doesn't really make sense. If there is more hate, why would you lower the Welder count? Just gives you a worse chance of actually using them. Welder is too damn good in here to not have it as a 4-of.
True. Sometimes I need to just step back and listen to the voice of reason. The main reason that statement made sense to me was due to the fact that I lowered the Welder count to make room for Bringers. 3/3 of each Bringer and Welder seems like a good mix, but the 4th Welder could only make the deck stronger.



-Try fixing the focus of the deck(Keyword:Try). What I mean is either go to a Slaver route or a Titan route, not both. Obviously this would have some flaws, as pure-Slaver needs more targets to swap out, which would require you to use more Crucible of Worlds so you can have Slaverlock more consistantly w/ Welder, but Sundering Titan is weak in monocolor matchups. I'd personally try sticking with Titan only and see how it works, as he's also better with Animate Dead and whatnot.
I honestly did try going just the Slaver route. The only thing I miss is that Sundering Titan just wins games on his own sometimes. I honestly think Titan alone is not very good in this format. If you animate him into play, you just seem to loose to too many cards, not to mention I almost think that running Titan is a nusiance more than an asset in a 3 color deck. Sometimes you have trouble bringing him into play in situations where you would loose 2 lands might be detrimental to the game state.



-It might be a stronger idea to remove counter in place of discard/removal. This deck seems to be a lot more proactive than it was reactive, as it liked to slam down cards really quickly and force things through. I'd think cards Unmask would be a strong choice in this case, as it would also give you a better shot at keeping a turn 1 Welder. Also, if you were to remove some of the blue cards in this deck, it'd be possible to add Dark Ritual, which I think would be really sexy in here.
I really feel strongly that counters belong in this deck just to be able to force through key spells (Animate/Intuition). Maybe it's the control player inside of me speaking, but I really like having reactive hate, when such cards as Null Rod or Tormod's Crypt can ruin your party. Dark Ritual is definatley a good thought, although it doesn't really help you cast anything outside of the expensive artifacts.



As for your aggro problems, look to Pyroclasm, Massacre, Perish, Engineered Explosives, or Powder Keg. Chalice seems ok, but against many decks is also hinders you a bit too. Setting for 1 stops future Welders, Duress, and Brainstorms, and setting for 2 stops Animate.
Why do I never think of Engineered Explosives in my decks.......?? I love that card and yet I always forget to include it in sideboards. Very good thought.


-take a crucible for another Welder. You don't have wastelands which means you're not using the crucible to its full potential and you're just packing a single copy, which means it gets harder to get it into play.
The reason there is only one Crucible is based upon the strategy to use Intuition to set up an infinite lock. I should have described this a little more and will add it to the original post. It's basically the idea that Toad from TMD posted in this article: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=8339



-add more artifacts. You really should need more cheap artifacts for the welders to sac. Take out 4 islands and put in 4 seats of the synod, lower the fetchland count and add another artifact land. That should be enough to use the welder reliably.
The reason for the high count in Basic Island count is because I have been seeing a lot of Back to Basics show up in my environment. This may change in the future, but until it does, I can't really lower the basic land count. I do see that the low artifact count is a potential problem depending on the direction that this deck will go. But if the main goal is to obtain a Slaver lock than right now it doesn't have too many issues obtaining it.



Edited By Jander78 on 1099871838

[hellfire1134]

Ancient Tomb might help you speed up a bit. Also so you can hardcast Mindslaver and Sundering Titan more easily. In other words i believe 3 Ancient Tombs would work but i would like to see 4.

[Bastian]

Tombs don't fuel Pentad Prisms either, which is a pretty good reason not to be packing them, not to mention that he'll rarely be casting either spell. At least Titan he won't... ???

[Jander78]

Tomb doesn't really fit the deck at all. You need colored land to cast Counters/Animate/Prism. The only cards it would help you with are Thirst for Knowledge and Intuition, and while this being good, doesn't really warrant the inclusion. The main problems this deck has is racing aggro decks. Tomb seems counter intuitive to beating those decks because the damage actually speeds their win as well.

[NavyJoe]

Have you tried out Gifts? You could tutor up: Life/Death-Exhume-Reanimate-Intuition. 9/10 times your going to get Intuition and Life/Death. Then you can Intuition up some fatties. I think it gives you Intuitions 5-8.

[Jander78]

Gift's Ungiven is interesting, but seems a little cumbersome to fit in this deck. It also requires a pretty varied card choice. I couldn't see changing the deck around to adjust to it. Also, if you don't already have a fatty in the graveyard, what opponent would let you keep the Intuition with any animate type spell?

If I wanted more Intuitions I would put the 4th copy in the deck. It is a good spell as it enables a lot of what the deck is trying to accomplish and tutors up 3-4 of's in the deck, but it is not always the card you want to see after you have already cast 1. 3 seems to be the right number for this deck to get one into your hand early and not draw them too much in multiples.

[Carlos El Salvador]

Is there some reason why your not running exhume over animate dead? Sure, Exhume might be able to bring back a lacky every once in a while, but it's just better than animate dead.

[Di]

Is there some reason why your not running exhume over animate dead? Sure, Exhume might be able to bring back a lacky every once in a while, but it's just better than animate dead.


Survival decks. It's really retarded when you cast Exhume and they get a free Tradewind.

[Jander78]

Is there some reason why your not running exhume over animate dead? Sure, Exhume might be able to bring back a lacky every once in a while, but it's just better than animate dead.
Real funny story about that..............

The only tournament I played this deck in, I had convinced myself that Exhume was better so I ran it. It litterally lost me about 4 games and was quite frustrating.

Against Survival based decks (which are everywhere) Exhume is probably the best card they could wish for. They can tutor up a Gilded Drake and take what ever you decide to bring back or just go for a Tradewind or whatever fatty they want. There were so many cases were Exhume was crap and a lot of times where it would have won me the game to steal a creature I had countered/etc. from the opponents graveyard had it been Animate Dead.

They way I look at it there are definatley pro's and con's to Animate and Exhume. Animate dies to enchantment hate (Engineered Explosives). Exhume brings back creatures for the opponent. I guess it's really a meta call on what to run. Animate is just safer as it doesn't allow the opponent to surprise you by responding to Exhume with something nasty nor does it leave Exhume dead in your hand when you are facing down something that is already in their graveyard.



Is there some reason why your not running exhume over animate dead? Sure, Exhume might be able to bring back a lacky every once in a while, but it's just better than animate dead.


Survival decks. It's really retarded when you cast Exhume and they get a free Tradewind.
That's actually from first hand tournament experiance.......that lost me the match...... :(



Edited By Jander78 on 1100050150

[LunchBox]

I just wanted to reiterate that Exhume sucks in the current meta. I also played the deck at Amrod's, and there were multiple times where Exhume bit me in the ass:

-Against TeenieBopper playing ATS, I countered his Seedborn Muse then proceeded to draw Exhume and couldn't bring my Titan out of the yard for fear of ATS lock.

-Against IBA with UGW Control, I Exhumed a Titan and he got back a cycled Krosan Tusker. He mised a Disenchant for my Titan and beat me with the Tusker.

Basically, Exhume sucked. I would have probably been 3-2 at least, and I'm sure Jander would have been 4-1.

[Carlos El Salvador]

Harmless question... That is why I ask.. but I see where you alla re coming from with this "Survival decks <3 teh exhum0rz" speak you speak of. At least I know people have tried it, and hated the results... now that I look back a half hour ago... I can kinda see where that would be bad... especially since this is a damn control deck playing reanimate spells, WTF? xD

[Jander78]

Harmless question... That is why I ask.. but I see where you alla re coming from with this "Survival decks <3 teh exhum0rz" speak you speak of. At least I know people have tried it, and hated the results... now that I look back a half hour ago... I can kinda see where that would be bad... especially since this is a damn control deck playing reanimate spells, WTF? xD
It's a fine question and Exhume is great against most control decks or a heavy control field, but since the format is starting to become mostly aggro it just doesn't cut it.

[Jander78]

Updated decklist............

//Combo 13
3 Bringer of the White Dawn
3 Goblin Welder
2 Sundering Titan
2 Mindslaver
3 Animate Dead

//Control 8
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

//Utility 1
1 Crucible of Worlds

//Draw/Search 14
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Intuition
3 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge

//Mana 24
4 Pentad Prism
4 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Island

The main difference you will notice is the inclusion of Accumulated Knowledge. This came to being, because Duress just wasn't cutting it in today's environment. Since I seem to be facing many aggro decks, Duress just wasn't grabbing anything worthwhile. The only good thing to grab latley has been Survival, and that means that you need Duress pretty much on turn 1.

AK has been adding to the draw department and really helps you find what you need. It really gives this deck massive amounts of card drawing and helps you find combo pieces/Fatties a lot faster.

This deck has been testing very strong. I recently split for first in a tournament with it. Here is a quick run down of the report, just to give an idea of how the deck plays out:

Round 1: Nick with Hulk Smash
Game 1: He gets a Welder off the table, then I hard cast Bringer on turn 3. Turn 4 I Intuition for Slaver/Slaver/Titan, get a Titan in hand and take the rest of his turns.
Game 2: He drops 'Tog mid game and I drop a Slaver. Out goes his hand and graveyard and I am free to do what I want. Needless to say, I win shortly after.

Round 2: Mike (Teeniebopper) w/Angel Stompy
Game1: He STP's an early Welder. I eventually draw into another one and he drops Paralax Wave, but not before I have a Titan Welded in. He Waves out both of them and I Animate another Titan, which also gets waved out, but in the process he looses all of his plains. Eventually the wave looses all it's counters and he can't handle 2 Titans and a Welder.

Game2: He drops early beats and swinds for a bit. I bait STP with a Welder and then hard cast Bringer, which out races his shadow folks after countering his removal.....

Round 3: Geoff Smelski U/w Landstill
Geoff and I have tested this matchup and he knows how to play against it very well. Usually game 1 is heavily in my favor, but that didn't prove correct this day.
Game 1: He gets an early hand on the game with a Crucible and a bunch of Standstills. I can't recover when he has a full hand of answers and goes into beat down mode.
Game 2: See game 1. I can't seem to stop his early draw and he aggros me to death.....

Round 4: Tariq w/ Finkelstill (or something)
Game 1: Hardcast turn 3 Bringer and turn 4 Intuition into Slaver.....
Game 2: The Titans and Welders swing by to say hi...

Top 4: Dirty w/ U/g Madness
Game 1: I keep a questionable 6 card hand and pay for it. He has a quick start with Mongrel/Rootwalla and Friends....I loose quickly.
Game 2: Titan rears it's ugly head and controls all of his hand. Slaver shortly after seals it.
Game 3: I play slow and set up the combo while he beats me down. At the end of his turn, I have a Bringer in play and am at 4, I Intuition to seal the game.

Top 2 Split with U/w Landstill.......

[metalhead212]

Updated decklist............

//Combo 13
3 Bringer of the White Dawn
3 Goblin Welder
2 Sundering Titan
2 Mindslaver
3 Animate Dead

//Control 8
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

//Utility 1
1 Crucible of Worlds

//Draw/Search 14
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Intuition
3 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge

//Mana 24
4 Pentad Prism
4 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Island

The main difference you will notice is the inclusion of Accumulated Knowledge. This came to being, because Duress just wasn't cutting it in today's environment. Since I seem to be facing many aggro decks, Duress just wasn't grabbing anything worthwhile. The only good thing to grab latley has been Survival, and that means that you need Duress pretty much on turn 1.

AK has been adding to the draw department and really helps you find what you need. It really gives this deck massive amounts of card drawing and helps you find combo pieces/Fatties a lot faster.

This deck has been testing very strong. I recently split for first in a tournament with it. Here is a quick run down of the report, just to give an idea of how the deck plays out:

Round 1: Nick with Hulk Smash
Game 1: He gets a Welder off the table, then I hard cast Bringer on turn 3. Turn 4 I Intuition for Slaver/Slaver/Titan, get a Titan in hand and take the rest of his turns.
Game 2: He drops 'Tog mid game and I drop a Slaver. Out goes his hand and graveyard and I am free to do what I want. Needless to say, I win shortly after.

Round 2: Mike (Teeniebopper) w/Angel Stompy
Game1: He STP's an early Welder. I eventually draw into another one and he drops Paralax Wave, but not before I have a Titan Welded in. He Waves out both of them and I Animate another Titan, which also gets waved out, but in the process he looses all of his plains. Eventually the wave looses all it's counters and he can't handle 2 Titans and a Welder.

Game2: He drops early beats and swinds for a bit. I bait STP with a Welder and then hard cast Bringer, which out races his shadow folks after countering his removal.....

Round 3: Geoff Smelski U/w Landstill
Geoff and I have tested this matchup and he knows how to play against it very well. Usually game 1 is heavily in my favor, but that didn't prove correct this day.
Game 1: He gets an early hand on the game with a Crucible and a bunch of Standstills. I can't recover when he has a full hand of answers and goes into beat down mode.
Game 2: See game 1. I can't seem to stop his early draw and he aggros me to death.....

Round 4: Tariq w/ Finkelstill (or something)
Game 1: Hardcast turn 3 Bringer and turn 4 Intuition into Slaver.....
Game 2: The Titans and Welders swing by to say hi...

Top 4: Dirty w/ U/g Madness
Game 1: I keep a questionable 6 card hand and pay for it. He has a quick start with Mongrel/Rootwalla and Friends....I loose quickly.
Game 2: Titan rears it's ugly head and controls all of his hand. Slaver shortly after seals it.
Game 3: I play slow and set up the combo while he beats me down. At the end of his turn, I have a Bringer in play and am at 4, I Intuition to seal the game.

Top 2 Split with U/w Landstill.......
if i may ask, why only 1 crucible and 3 welders? I think you should take out the 1 and add another welder. 3 is good, but 4 gives you the consistency you're going to need. Also, maybe take out 1 island and add another seat of synod. I think that might put you where you need to be as far as fast cheap artifacts.

The deck looks awsome overall though, GREAT JOB SO FAR!

[Jander78]

As stated earlier in the thread, Crucible is a combo with Welder and an Artifact land that allows you to keep recurring Mindslaver infinitley. The reason there is only 1 Crucible is so you can Intuition for Crucible/2 Artifact Lands with a Welder in play to set up.

The 4th Welder is something that I have considered many times, and it still comes down to not wanting to cut anything. If I could find room I will add it, but right now it comes down to cutting a Thirst, an Animate, or a Bringer, all of which I think are too integral peices to be cut.

[FatHydralisk]

I have a question. Would Necromancy be too expensive, in Animate's spot? I have found that being able to use it as an instant can play all sorts of havoc on several different deck types. It aslo has no drawbacks, compared to the -1/-0 of Animate. I haven't tested it though, so it wouldn't surprise me horribly if it was a bit expensive.

[CavernNinja]

You want to set up a recurring lock with Bringer of the White Dawn, the Bringer won't stay in play if you Necromancy it, and thus Necromancy is only good with Sundering Titan. If Necromancy didn't have the draw back of dieing then yes it would be amazing.

[FatHydralisk]

Well, if you play it as an instant, yeah. I was just wondering whether the option of the instant thing, plus the non attack hindering-ness of it would be worth the extra mana it costs.

[Jander78]

I have a question. Would Necromancy be too expensive, in Animate's spot? I have found that being able to use it as an instant can play all sorts of havoc on several different deck types. It aslo has no drawbacks, compared to the -1/-0 of Animate. I haven't tested it though, so it wouldn't surprise me horribly if it was a bit expensive.
Necromancy's ability to be able to be cast as an instant would almost never come into play in this deck. It may be nice to use combat tricks with Titan and take out lands from coming into play and leaving play, but when all is said and done, you are still left with nothing on the board at the end of the turn. Honestly the -1/-0 drawback of Animate Dead isn't really a drawback at all.


If your worried about costing or needing an extra reainmation spell don't use Necromancy. How bout dance of the dead. Your bringer really doesn't need to untap sicne you lock them.
The -1/-0 drawback from Animate Dead is very minimal compared to the drawback from Dance of the Dead. Half the time you are not Animating a Bringer. I can't even image how much of a nuisance using Dance on a Welder would be. This deck already has a tough time against certain aggro decks, cards that put your big fat creatures into play tapped are not going to help you at all.

On another note, Why is everyone looking for replacements for Animate Dead? It is the most efficient way to bring back a creature from the graveyard and still have the ability to use it for defense and offense, or use it's abilities.

[ForceofWill]

Is there a Sideboard?

[Jander78]

Sideboard varies depending on the environment. It is still pretty much the same as the one posted originally, but here is what I have been running in my current environment:

3-4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Echoing Truth
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Chalice of the Void
3 (Open - Shackles, BEB, Duress, Blood Moon, etc.....)

[SpikeyMikey]

ForceofWill: Wtf is up with your sig?

This is spam and you have been warned. Three warnings will result in your banning.

Peter_Rotten

[Greenberry]

There is any updated list of this deck nowdays?

I wonder if just the Thirst and the Intuitons are enough to discard the artifacts or the bringer... perhaps a few more would be fine

[Afro]

Wow is this deck a blast from the past. Nice necro job.

Rick was this the version you came up with after the separation of the lists and your Oath version was no longer legal? I remember seeing that being played casually by you at the Big Arse 1 I believe and fell in love with it.

As for the question just asked, yes the Thirsts and Intuitions should be enough discard. The only other option if you ask me is Careful Study and that is just ass.

[TeenieBopper]

Dibs on updating this for the CaNGD contest.

edit:

Holy fuck


Round 2: Mike (Teeniebopper) w/Angel Stompy
Game1: He STP's an early Welder. I eventually draw into another one and he drops Paralax Wave, but not before I have a Titan Welded in. He Waves out both of them and I Animate another Titan, which also gets waved out, but in the process he looses all of his plains. Eventually the wave looses all it's counters and he can't handle 2 Titans and a Welder.

Game2: He drops early beats and swinds for a bit. I bait STP with a Welder and then hard cast Bringer, which out races his shadow folks after countering his removal.....

When the hell did I play Angel Stompy?

edit 2:

Holy Fuck


-Against TeenieBopper playing ATS, I countered his Seedborn Muse then proceeded to draw Exhume and couldn't bring my Titan out of the yard for fear of ATS lock.

When did I play ATS?

[Greenberry]

As for the question just asked, yes the Thirsts and Intuitions should be enough discard. The only other option if you ask me is Careful Study and that is just ass.

I did it, just replaced the AK for 4 Careful Study, now the "monsters" goes to graveyard anytime I want.

I'm only having some doubts when casting the Intuiton, as if you don't have any Animated Dead on your hand you gotta search for them and you probably will waste 2 of them to get the third and place it into your hand...

[Brushwagg]

When the hell did I play Angel Stompy?

Been a while but I remember it. ATS I don't remember you playing that.

[Isamaru]

Hey, there, Jander. What do you think of 2x Eternal Dragon for a turn 3 4/5 Flyer (Animate Dead)... seems useful considering people think turn 3Tombstalker is good.

The reason I like Animate Dead is because of the fact that it can randomly win by stealing the opponents creatures. I guess you should consider Thoughtseize over Duress for this reason.

Anyway, I figure you deserved to be tipped off to Eternal Dragon because you built a good deck so far. I don't know if the Dragon is any miracle solution to anything, but I at least it adds redundancy.

Good luck :smile: