[Deck] Fat Bottomed Girls (Affinity - affinity + goyf/bob)

[Media314r8]

A Background:

My friend (and teammate) Jacob plays affinity. I met him back in the days when I only had one deck: Goblins. I was originally a casual player, and liked goblins so much that the deck evolved until the point where I had attained moxen (just ruby and emerald... why would you play anything but RG moxen in FCG!?!?) to get my food-chain'd kill earlier and earlier. My casual playgroup quickly became disgruntled with my deck, and my buddy Anthony introduced me to the legacy format to get me away from the kitchen table and into the 0-X bracket at local legacy tournaments. In went vials, out cam power, Food Chain, and Recruiters. Back to Jacob, I met Jacob in Columbus, OH at a local card shop. (I was probably paying $10 cash a piece for siege-gangs or some damn thing - stupid n00b!) He was looking for someone to playtest affinity with (can't remember if it was extended or legacy at that point.) Either way, Jacob and I started going to tournaments. (either extended or legacy... I think I played extd fecundity goblins at some point since I already had the RG fetches) Years later, I've got four decks fully built, and Jacob is still playing affinity. He seemed tired of the 0-X bracket, (to be fair, more like 1-X or 2-X at this point) and I had begun to fancy myself as a deck-builder, so I made a few suggestions, and he was initially taken aback at the concept of cutting the proven card-drawing power of thoughtcast for the suicidal dark confidant. Even more so, he dreaded not being able to empty his hand of 2/2 bears and 4/4 beasts by turn two. After a brief introductory period of him playing with aether vials, (apparently not having to resolve both disciples and ravagers is tech) he tried out my list, which has since been further tweaked to include epocricite and bayou. The startling discovery: He could beat Goblins now! He still beat thresh, and still had a rough matchup against landstill, but being able to beat 2/3 of the top-tier decks at that point convinced him to have me give him my goyfs... thus Fat Bottomed Girls was born:

// Lands
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [MR] Tree of Tales
3 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
3 [B] Bayou

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [FUT] Epochrasite
3 [DS] Arcbound Worker
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [10E] Chromatic Star

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 [DIS] Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle

I cannot stress how amazing and resilient this build is. The addition of vial ensures that control/aggro-control decks force turn one vial or essentially lose. Epocracite is a nightmare, and makes swinging into a vial at two nerve-racking. Goyf can be grown at instant-speed via ravager, and allows for cute combat tricks. Jitte is a mega-bomb, and half the reason why this list is more successful against aggro and goblins than traditional affinity builds. The whole list is gas, and save for lands (which there are only 19 of) topdecking is generally pretty good for you, as 1/2 your deck is threats. The deck goldfishes about a half turn slower than traditional affinity, but in games where your opponents play creatures, 2/2 bears and 4/4 beats just don't cut it in this metagoyf anymore. Let's face it, affinity isn't winning many/any game 1s against combo unless they lose to their own hand. (or a really, REALLY bad diminishing returns) Bob shines here as an "I win unless you remove me" card, as the average CMC in the deck is 0.98, and the equips alone if resolved will probably win it. Disciples, Ravagers, and goyfs compete with bob as far as distribution of targeting rings on foreheads, making it evrey difficult for your opponent to make the correct descision on what to kill, as if he nukes bob instead of disciple, another or a ravager could jump in through the vial and end the game real fast. While deed still rapes the deck, Bayou + Citadel and utilizing equipment pressure while holding extra land(s) can help to recover. The one-of Academy ruins has proven helpful in bad matchups, like landstill where recurring a jitte or ravager until it sticks can win you the match i the late, LATE game. Currently testing the fourth bayou in it's place.

Board explanations: Deed is your enemy, needle is your BFF Jill, and randomly helps against decks like breakfast, (some builds) survival, belcher, (buys you a turn) and alluren. (moderatly) Seal is in here over K grip as with Eva Green, you usually spend all your mana sorcerry speed, and float mana for grip in response to null rod just doesn't happen so often as scoop in response to null rod, and the proactive setting of seal vs standstill, CB, and deed can help as well as growing goyf to a 6/7.

The deck has a favorable match against goblins G1, and neutral to unfavorable games 2 and 3, depending on the color/splash/SB cards. Favorable Thresh matchups pre and post boards, and an Unfavorable landstill MU. I've tested the hell out of the 'Rock' MU, and it is generally neutral to slightly in Fat Bottomed Girls' favor, even with my deck running 4x deed MD. (we tested for about 4 hours before the last tournament, as I couldn't habeeb it.)

My buddy Jacob has been playing the deck for about a year now with the current spell configuration, and about three months ago settled on the Bayous over Glimmervoids. He recently went 4-0-1 to win (four way split in finals, but he had the only undefeated record) the Flint Mox tournament, beating a goblins decks, a MoonStax deck, and a Pox deck.

I know this will catch all the shit from traditional affinity players, but it is tested and it is not supposed to be compared to affinity, but rather sen as a new deck. (thus the new thread)

Common Questions:

"Why play this over a GB 'Rock' Deck?"
Average CMC of 0.98, explosive equipment, more 'reach' with disciple, fast enough goldfish and evasion to beat combo decks going with the EtW plan on turns two or three.

(more to come)

In- Depth MU anaylsis and SBing plans:

(more to come)

[ssilver]

I love this deck. You have no idea how much I hate playing frogmites and enforcers. The one thing I see with this deck, is that it looks like it costs more than any Affinity player is going to want to pay. The only people who play ravager seriously (I include myself in this) are people who do not have the money to go out and buy a playset of Goyfs in the first place :frown: . However, I like the way this deck says "It's ok to take that old Affinity deck out of the closet, it's possible to play it still now that you're not broke." This decklist could possibly solve the pain of buying a whole new deck of cards once people actually have the money to buy them. In my opinion, goldfishing half a turn later is a hell of a lot better than losing the game against dedicated aggro in a tournament setting. Some possible worries would be chalice at 1 and 2, which hurts you in a way ravager just laughs off, as well as moon affects. If you don't get a vial out before Counterbalance + top, you will be in a world of hurt. I don't know how good star is in your deck, but you'll probably answer that in your detailed matchup analysis. So far, looks great!

[TeenieBopper]

Thumbs up for the Queen reference.

[Tacosnape]

So, um, you took Affinity and took the Affinity mechanic out of it?

Why on earth does this deck run Seat of the Synod? There's no blue anywhere in the entire list. Running bad islands just to sacrifice to Arcbound Ravager doesn't seem like tech to me.

[Media314r8]

So, um, you took Affinity and took the Affinity mechanic out of it?

Why on earth does this deck run Seat of the Synod? There's no blue anywhere in the entire list. Running bad islands just to sacrifice to Arcbound Ravager doesn't seem like tech to me.

Academy Ruins. See reasoning vs control decks like landstill.

Chalice is only good on the play, as otherwise aether vial > chalice @ 1. Chalice at 2 hurts as it shuts down your equipment, but against stompy decks, hopefully you can just race with your goyfs and ravager/disciple. Vs stax, you win that matchup unless they get E bridge, then you swing with a 1/1 ravager and sack everyhing ecept an onithopter to him, which you swing with next turn.

@ star: this helps fix mana when you don't have vial, and it's a cantripping, deck thinning efect that causes life loss and pumps ravager while cantripping. The only solution other than vial vs moon effects. Moon isn't a terrible threat, and while it may be annoying to have bob or goyf stuck in your hand, you will eventually draw into a vial or star, and your equipment and other creatures can still be cast under moon.

[J.V.]

Seat of Synod activates Academy Ruins? Thats all I'm seeing here.
=================
Edit:
Damn Media beat me to it.

[Phantom]

Academy Ruins. See reasoning vs control decks like landstill.



Interesting idea. I'll be back with more later, but wouldn't a one of Volrath's Stronghold be equally as strong (trade recurring Jittes and plating for Goyfs and Bobs) without stretching your manabase nearly as much?

The maindeck seems a tad too narrow minded for my taste. That is to say it is solely focused on beating the opponent, and contain little to no disruption. What happens when the opponent lands a spell that you can't deal with? You can't rely on speed every match. No aggro deck in Legacy is quick enough to rely on that. Anyway, I have two suggestions to this purpose: Engineered Explosives and Cabal Therapy. They both have amazing synergy with the cards here, and while Therapy is the more proactive of the two, Explosives is the more versatile.

Also, why run Planar Void in the board over Leyline? Do you board it in and Goyf out? Seems like a bad idea against yard combo where you want to beat down ASAP to prevent them from finding bounce. I could be wrong though. You actually have access to Jailer which is probably better then enchantment options and still maintains your Goyfs.

[Media314r8]

Planars were chosen over leylines as they can actually be replayed in this deck if bounced, and you don't have to mull into one. Planar is a trigger, so it allows you to still work your modular counters, stars, epocricites, and disciples. The only permanant the deck can't win through (that I can think of) is platinum angel, and I've not seen too many decks with her MD. Disciple gives the reach to handle moat, worship, ect. Humility isn't really a problem. (equips + modular counters FTW)

Stronghold is fine, but vs landstill and other control, wouldnt a recurring jitte/plating/ravager be better than a recurring goyf/bob/ravager? (Landstill is one of the only decks that my team doesn't have built currently)

[Jourdelune]

Has a matter of fact, Dragon Stompy is considered Tier 1 deck since December 2007 (after lorwyn release and legal?).

DS is the new house that trash the previous T1 legacy deck.

I suggest you to have some matchup with the latest build. DS win more tourney than threshold actually (if you compute the fact that around 50% of deck are ***** nowadays).

DS is not only Chalice... it's Chalice + 6 to 8 Bloodmoon effect + Trinisphere and hellbent is broken. On the play they get access to 3, 4 and 5 cc on first turn. If they go on draw, they can put out some power move like that with more chance to go for 5cc creatures.

Actually, if your deck can beat DS 60% of time, you will be ahead of the wave.

I hope you will get around 4 Match up with DS to tweak your deck further.

Jourdelune

[Media314r8]

being able to beat 2/3 of the top-tier decks at that point convinced him to have me give him my goyfs... thus Fat Bottomed Girls was born:

Bolded for the easily irritable. I built this deck some time ago, about two months after the FS spoiler. That one line which irratated you so much (which apparently you read both too much into and not well enough at the same time) was not meant to bash any decks, but at that point Goblins, Thresh, and Landstill were the top 3 decks in Legacy. (I think this was right before or right after hulk-flash, and right about when people were first toying with goyf)

blahblahblah, go brag about your awesome deck in the DS thread, but unless you have something relevant to say about this deck, please don't post in the thread.

[Jourdelune]

Bolded for the easily irritable. I built this deck some time ago, about two months after the FS spoiler. That one line which irratated you so much (which apparently you read both too much into and not well enough at the same time) was not meant to bash any decks, but at that point Goblins, Thresh, and Landstill were the top 3 decks in Legacy. (I think this was right before or right after hulk-flash, and right about when people were first toying with goyf)

blahblahblah, go brag about your awesome deck in the DS thread, but unless you have something relevant to say about this deck, please don't post in the thread.

Easily irritable? (i was not irritate, so I presume you are talking for yourself?)

Well... The thing is, actually if you want to compete in Legacy Meta, you need solution for DS.

You want to have a top TIER 1 deck? Do the matchup and post the analysis.

If that is not enough to help you in your venture in Legacy Meta, then sorry, I guess you need to open your mind at what is the actual metagame of Legacy.

Jourdelune

[Phantom]

Planars were chosen over leylines as they can actually be replayed in this deck if bounced, and you don't have to mull into one. Planar is a trigger, so it allows you to still work your modular counters, stars, epocricites, and disciples.

I understand the bonuses, but look at the drawbacks:

-You DO have to mull into one. You can in no way count on seeing one in a timely fashion in a deck with no relevant draw.
- Sure it allows your shit to trigger, but so does Leyline since it only affects the opponent. The only thing it hurts is your disciples triggering off their artifacts, which I imagine is not a huge concern.
- It makes you board out your best creature against decks were you want to be winning as fast as possible.
- You run 11 black sources! This might be ok, if Planars could be dropped with Aether Vial, but 11! I run 14 red in Dragon Stompy, and have to mull way too much. You are going to have a ton of hands where Void is there, but unplayable. Leyline doesn't give a shit. Also, Leyline prevents the rare but occasional turn 1 win.


The only permanant the deck can't win through (that I can think of) is platinum angel, and I've not seen too many decks with her MD. Disciple gives the reach to handle moat, worship, ect. Humility isn't really a problem. (equips + modular counters FTW)

I was really thinking more Deed, Wrath, any sort of heavy removal strategy, recurring blockers, whatever (I just didn't say it very well). I know you have answers in the board for some of this, but ripping them from their hand seems better than a passive solution like Needle.

Also, the sheer synergy of Therapy with Goyf, Disciple, modular, Ornithopter, and Epochrasite is pretty amazing.


Stronghold is fine, but vs landstill and other control, wouldnt a recurring jitte/plating/ravager be better than a recurring goyf/bob/ravager? (Landstill is one of the only decks that my team doesn't have built currently)

I'm honestly not sure which one would be more powerful, but since they are close, I would run the one that is in your colors, not the one that stretches the mana base and will often be an unactivatable colorless land.

[Maëlig]

I played against this deck the other day on MWS, and I can attest its playability and power.
Trading seat of the synod for some swamps seems reasonable, as you have currently now way to play through a blood moon (and very little to actually prevent or get rid of it, which is also a problem).
Also, I have to agree with Phantom about playing leyline over planar. Something that wasn't mentionned is that leyline doesn't get countered or discarded (if you're on the draw), which can quite often make the difference.
The deck I played against had less creatures (I'm not sure it had the workers and the ornis) and no stars but MD discard and EE. I really don't get why you don't play thoughtseize and/or therapy (which has great synergy with the rest of the deck as previously mentionned), which could really improve your combo and control MU.
You might want to replace the seals by grips in your sb to get around the CB engine and simple counters.
Finally, what's with the CotV in the sb? If it's only for the combo MU, some discard would probably be better imo.

[Dilettante]

Finally, what's with the CotV in the sb? If it's only for the combo MU, some discard would probably be better imo.


I find Chalice... to be good anti-chalice...

[Maëlig]

Wouldn't a combination of krosan grips and decent discarding do the job, while still being usefull in other situations?

[Media314r8]

you have currently now way to play through a blood moon

OMG, colorless creatures/spells can be cast with red mana, im tired of this Fing argument. I also run 4 c. stars and 4 vials MD to resolve the only 12 cards that have colored mana requirements! Can everyone please STFU about moon effects vs this deck! Blood moons get boarded out vs affinity, magus might stay, but he is a minor inconvenience here, I'm playing ARTIFACTS, not UU spells or 4c landstill!


Also, I have to agree with Phantom about playing leyline over planar. Something that wasn't mentionned is that leyline doesn't get countered or discarded (if you're on the draw), which can quite often make the difference.

I will have to conciede that leylien is the better card, and will recommend my friend change his SB, I'll be the first to admit his budget probably had a hand in this choice. (I gave him the goyfs and epocracites)


You might want to replace the seals by grips in your sb to get around the CB engine and simple counters.
This is discussed in the deck primer, and there are pros and cons to both, I and my teammate feel that seal is better in this deck.


Finally, what's with the CotV in the sb? If it's only for the combo MU, some discard would probably be better imo.
OMFG, do people ever seriosuly playtest!?!? My friend Anthony has TES and SI built, and I can personally attest (as I have two decks built with MD discard, one with 3 slots, the other with 8 including hymn) that discard is Fing terrible against combo. Chalices and 3 spheres or Force of Will is really the only way to thoroughly beat most combo decks pre-boards, and force doesn't allways get there if they have mana floating for EtW. In the SB, chalice, even at ZERO, slows fast combo by 1-3 turns as they wish for spree to kill it, and those turns can be the time you need to win. If you rip another or can set an additional for 2 before then, you pretty much win. TRY TESTING THERAPY, or TS, or duress vs combo. I GUARENTEE YOU WILL FACEPALM when they brainstorm in response, or if bob's just there giving you the finger as they rebuild their hand and laugh as you just spent a card (a critter possibly) and a turn in an attempt to slow them. Chalice >>>>>>>>>>>> discard in SB vs combo. /rant. Chalice can also randomly hoze 9 land stompy or burn decks when set to 1. (you can play vial turn 1 to ensure you dont lock youself out of 1/3 of your deck) Board out stars if this is the case.

[Media314r8]

I find Chalice... to be good anti-chalice...

chalice is not good anti chalice. EE with colorless sources is good anti-chalice, but this deck just needs a vial, then all the important spells are equips at 2, and I don't see this deck being able to set chalice for 8 mana (4 counters) or 4 mana (2 counters), as it would take 4 counters to stop an opponent's chalice for four mana (2 counters) and 2 counters on your chalice to stop an opponent's chalice for 2 mana. (1 counter) I suppose chalice @0 is good anti-chalice at 0... but that seems entirely irrel and counter-productive if you are afraid of your opponent's chalice at 0.

Remember, the CMC of chalice ON THE STACK is the mana you pay as it is being cast, Ex: an opponent's :4: mana for chalice with 2 counters would require you to have a chalice with 4 counters that you payed :8: for. The CMC at all other times, and in other zones, is :0:, which is why EE is good anti-chalice tech. 1 or 2 MB EEs will need to be tested, as it will combine with ravager to make dredge almost winnable G1, and help with ruins recursion if games go way, WAY too long.

tl;dr: chalice is terrible anti-chalice tech.

[Maëlig]

Fair enough for blood moon, I don't know why but I was actually thinking of b2b (which is much less played) when I wrote that comment.
About discard, I don't agree with you however. Even if you prefer to board CotV over discard against combo (which is not an evidence imho), you need more than that to get a favorable MU. Secondly, discard is usefull in lots of other situations (who said deed?), and is actually this deck's only way to disrupt your opponent's strategy, and you really need that.
Finally, no need to get upset. I can understand that you're attached to this deck, but if you post it here I can only hope it's to get some people's comments and advice, and that's eaxctly what we're trying to do (in a calm and argumentative way ;)).

[Media314r8]

@Maëlig: I'm not upset about people criticizing the deck, I'm glad to make improvements, it's only been 1 day and 4 SB slots have been improved. I don't even play the deck, I just built it. I was just aggravated by the comments, as it seems like people were stretching the facts JUST to bash the deck. Discard, while arguably more versatile, is not better against combo, and affinity has always had a terrible combo MU, perhaps I should abandon hating out the combo MU and focus more on tuning it to beat decks like landstill. I do, however, think that in order for discard to be effective, it either needs to be paired with reactive countermagic, (which this deck can't support) or be more dedicated with at least 8 slots between MB and SB. 4 SB therapy will not make the combo MU favorable, and it may just come down to hoping they don't notice the life loss from their artifact accelerators and our disciple, and that we can finish them with ravager while tendrils is on the stack, or race, ect.

I think I am coming around to dropping the ruins MB and thus the seats to go up to the full 4 bayous, and perhaps 3 blinkmoth nexus? Otherwise, no nexi, add fetches/basics, and sub out a thopter and a star for a couple of EE?

Thoughts? (I'll playtest on MWS after this week, but I have a test on Friday)

[idraleo]

don't you think that running at least 2 pithing on maindeck isn't a bad idea? as you notice, a single Pernicious Deed owns you, leaving you probably without anithing on the board.

Why don't you consider run Ancient Tombs to did more boost start ups?

[Media314r8]

My friend Jacob and I went to the Flint Mox tournament (which he won) with him running this deck and me running a GB "Dora Rocks" deck with 4 MB Pernicious Deed. While it is very, very good, and can wreck most of his board, my win % was only about 60% G1 and about 45% games 2 and 3 post-boards. Epocricite and Lands that don't die to deed (bayou and citadel) help alot, and an aggro start with disciple in play (or vial at 1) can ensure that deed sits there looking gold and pernicious and not wrecking your board (and losing them the game via disciple triggers.)

If the seats are replaced with nexi, I think the GB control matchup could improve even more.

Not to undervalue deed, but the deck is explosive enough to bash face rather than run 2 possibly dead cards MD for fear of random deeds. Epocracite fallback with later equipment can help as well.

[noobslayer]

Discard needs to be in large quantities to do some effective damage against combo, which means more often than not:
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
However, in this deck, I think it's more fitting to go for artifact combo hate. These come in the form of Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere, Thorn of Amethyst, and Pithing Needle (depends on the combo). I think Chalice and Thorn together are likely your best bet.

[Eldariel]

Nothing to do with this really, but I built Affinity with 8 Spheres (4 Sphere of Resistance, 4 Thorn of Amethyst) and it really performed admirably against a crapton of decks. As a bonus, the spheres counteracted a lot of hate. Thanks to Vial and Affinity-mechanic (well, for that build), they won't really impact you. I think that would be somewhat effective a sideboard against combo, although you'll of course want Chalice to slow them down enough to start dropping spheres.

[Barook]

Nothing to do with this really, but I built Affinity with 8 Spheres (4 Sphere of Resistance, 4 Thorn of Amethyst) and it really performed admirably against a crapton of decks. As a bonus, the spheres counteracted a lot of hate. Thanks to Vial and Affinity-mechanic (well, for that build), they won't really impact you. I think that would be somewhat effective a sideboard against combo, although you'll of course want Chalice to slow them down enough to start dropping spheres.
Does a list exist?

[Isamaru]

Hey Eric and Jacob, I'm glad you posted the deck :smile: - I just did a Google search yesterday for it to find out whether you guys made it up or not. haha

Anyway, the weakest card in the deck looks like Arcbound Worker... I'd almost rather play Glittering Lynx or something. Sarcomancy?

[Media314r8]

I just did a Google search yesterday for it to find out whether you guys made it up or not

Clarification: I built the deck, he ran/runs the deck. Jacob is currently innovating/breaking the format with EaterOfDays.dec.


Anyway, the weakest card in the deck looks like Arcbound Worker... I'd almost rather play Glittering Lynx or something. Sarcomancy?
Worker blocks a lackey and doesnt afraid of anything. I agree that he is the weakest link, but about the only other reasonable alternative is arcbound stinger, and he doesnt block a lackey so well. The modular 1 and aggressive nature make him a lot better than he looks on paper. I'd prefer a 1 mana replacement, and I swear to god I'm not adding Sage of Ephytr lulz.

[Isamaru]

Damn I was just about to suggest my baby, Sagey.

Still, Eater of Days? You know what's really sad? Maro has power-creep&lull-pushed Moarshit so hard that that fat 6/5 Flying 3B elemental thing seems like it's a lot more worth the effort. Unless you put it into a Stax deck and are happy to give them turns.

[Media314r8]

stacks was the idea actually, with stifle and things like tangle wire main.

[Media314r8]

So my buddy jacob has decided to playtest Roterothopter (http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=15735) in arcbound worker's spot. Read the card, then let the bashing commence. He does block a lackey, carry jitte and plating, and doesnt afraid of anything.

[Pltnmngl]

So my buddy jacob has decided to playtest Roterothopter (http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=15735) in arcbound worker's spot. Read the card, then let the bashing commence. He does block a lackey, carry jitte and plating, and doesnt afraid of anything.

Let me know how that works in testing.

On another note, how is that Ruins treating you? I'm really resisting the urge to replace it, but I know I shouldn't.

[Media314r8]

I'm currently playing 1 stronghold, 4 bayou, 4 roteothopter, and 1 pendelhaven (can pump 1/1 guys with modular counters) and thopters been working out great. stronghold is occasionally relevant, and pendelhaven is fine for dettering attacks.

[Brot_Ohne_Kruste]

First of all, nice concept Media314r8. I really like the idea of combining Ravager/ Disciple-action with 'Goyfs and Confidants to receive a fast and consistent aggrodeck which can instantly pump its creatures. I've done a few testgames and it looks quite good, but I don't know if my list was that good. Could you post your latest list, please? :)

[Pulp_Fiction]

Ok, I don't think anyone is playing this deck anymore but I just put it together and went to my local card shop and played against a few people, this deck IS SICK! I can't believe this isn't played by anyone, this deck is really fast and REALLY resiliant! But anyway, for the people who have built and played this deck I am really curious about the 4x Chromatic Star/Sphere. Would this be better suited as 4x Springleaf Drum? I have liked the Stars in the deck and I know they grow Goyf, but the Drum just feels better and there is a lot of B/W confidant and Sinkhole/Wasteland.dec in my meta so I really feel the Springleaf Drum is better. What do you guys think? As far as the mana base goes, everything works really well. Now I am playing the build from the original post card for card and the Jitte's just seem out of place. Jitte + creature is a combo in itself but everytime I have Jitte I also have Cranial Plating so it almost feels unnecessary and win more or I have a damn Ornithopter and he isn't very good with a Jitte that has no counters! Now, if you were to take out Jitte would 2x Night's Whisper or Thoughtcast be good in its place?

[JohnnyCage]

Star is better because it sacs to ravager and still draws you a card. You dont need drum because you accel through vial not mana, and furthermore jitte is and always will be the S***

[Media314r8]

You cannot allways resolve plating, and having 6 equipments in the deck that help your goyfs win in battle is insane. Star is much better than drum for the aforementioned reason, as it cantrips even if sac'd, and you never want to be casting dudes, (save for perhaps thopter or disciple if your only vial is at 2) so the mana-ramp use is limited.

[Brot_Ohne_Kruste]

I would like to play the Deck on Sunday and this is my latest list:


// Lands
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [MR] Tree of Tales
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [b] Bayou
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
1 [TSP] Pendelhaven

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [FUT] Epochrasite
4 [HL] Roterothopter
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [10E] Chromatic Star

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 [FUT] Yixlid Jailer
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle

I don't know if the Landcount of 18 Lands is good, I'll test it. What do you think?

[Illissius]

Holy shit, a deck that plays Roterothopter? I better start stocking up on Forces of Nature and Elvish Pipers, for the end times are surely nigh.

[Happy Gilmore]

This deck would be great - bad cards and + good cards. Seriously though, Roterothopter?

Try this

-4 Roterothopter
-4 Epocricite
-2 Jitte
-1 Chromatic Star
-4 Darksteel Citadel

+4 Ancient Tomb
+4 Painters Servant
+3 Grindstone
+4 Cabal Therapy

Who am I kiding, I dont think that would make this deck much better...

[Roman Candle]

This deck would be great - bad cards and + good cards. Seriously though, Roterothopter?

Try this

-4 Roterothopter
-4 Epocricite
-2 Jitte
-1 Chromatic Star
-4 Darksteel Citadel

+4 Ancient Tomb
+4 Painters Servant
+3 Grindstone
+4 Cabal Therapy

Who am I kiding, I dont think that would make this deck much better...

Adding the Painter's Combo seems awful in a deck that a) can't tutor for it, b) can't protect it, and c) can't take advantage of Painter on its own (REB, FoW, etc)

Painter's Servant+Grindstone is not Goyf-- it doesn't go in every deck ever made ever in history.

[Brot_Ohne_Kruste]

Yesterday I played a tourney with the list above and went 3-2 because I didn't know that suspended creatures, when the last counter is removed and you play them, have haste. This fact of not knowing costed me a few games I guess.

I've lost in the first round to NWGb 1-2. I won the first game, but in the second and third game Jitte, Trygon Predator and Manaflood caused troubles on my side.
In the second round I played against a weird control deck that used Academy Rector to seach his lockpieces in form of Mist of Stagnation and
Web of Inertia and then remove my grave with Tormod's Crypt. I managed to win against that deck 2-1, but it was pretty tough.
In the third round I played against 43 Lands 1-2 which is a bad matchup I think.
I've won 2-0 in the forth round against WW.
The fifth round against Eva Green I've won 2-1.


I really like the deck. Actually I never thought that Roterothopter would be good, but he really is. In about five games on the tournament he did the last damage with his pump-ability and with him we've got 8 flying creatures that are doing much pressure with Plating. Moreover Roterothopter can gather counters on the Jitte because of his pump-ability.
Epochrasite was just totally awesome. Chumpblocking with him is really good and he does a lot of pressure when he returns to play even bigger. That he has got haste, when he was suspended makes him even better in my eyes.
Actually I'm not really satisfied with Volrath's Stronghold and Pendelhaven. I never used Stronghold because it wasn't necessary in this situation and Pendelhaven I just used once which wasn't really important for the game. I think I will replace at least the Stronghold, I just need a replacement for it.

€:// I also playtested a few times against Enchantress and I think the matchup is 60:40 postboard for me. He has to resolve a Confinement to win the game. Against Dragon Stompy the matchup is pretty bad; 25:75 maybe. Chalices and Trinispheres are a pain.