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Waikiki
03-05-2008, 04:02 AM
I've been playing mostly Tempo ***** as my deck on tournaments and I wanted to play something new. So I searched the forums for some decks I liked. And stumbled on the following: "aYb's Baseruption".

Just one problem. I don't own all of these duals.

So I started Tinkering with just a Build with UB as the base. My meta is very varied and does not contain alot of combo.

This is the list I came up with under influences of Tempo ***** and Baseruption.

// Lands
2 [A] Island (1)
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [A] Swamp (2)

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
2 [FUT] Tombstalker
3 [OD] Shadowmage Infiltrator

// Spells
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [ON] Smother
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [SC] Stifle
4 [LRW] Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [FUT] Yixlid Jailer
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [A] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [DIS] Spell Snare
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate

The goal is to accelerate into confidant/Finkel and win due to card advantage.

[B]Stifle/Waste: These are included for their early game awesomeness. Their ability to slow down the opponent is great! Together with the draw this deck provides.

Top/Balance: With a curve going from 0 to 3 (5 if you count fow) This will stop alot of decks when resolved.

Shackless/Tombstalker: These cards are the main kill. Tombstalker is able to get down very early due to this deck's early disruption and cantrips. I decided to just play 2 because of the pain it gives when flipping with confidant. Also Shackless shows to be awesome agains rock kind of decks and *****. I never really was a fan of it until now.

2Islands/1Swamp: I need the basics to fight DS and other wastes. And decided to add a swamp so I will have a bigger chance at casting tombstalker under a moon effect or waste heavy deck (chrome mox).

Smother: IMO the best destruction card black offers.

Sideboard:

4 BEB: Goblins is just such a beating and I got no real answer to a T1 lackey

3Jailer/Extirpate: These are in to fight the dredge decks (loam/Ichorid/Breakfast)

3Spell snare: These baby's really shine in the Pikula matchup and can also provide a good help fighting combo.

2EE: Multipurpose card. I always include these in most of my decks SB because its just plain good against alot of things.

Why play this deck over say "***** or Baseruption itself"?

+
This deck doesn't depend on the grave and is able to play the control roll late game pretty well.
This deck has a stable manabase and is hard to disrupt

-
This deck plays weaker beatingsticks


Testing results:

So far my testing had been only on MWS vs IRL friends and their decks. They are all skilled players.

And so far the conclusion I got is that this deck has problems with Goblins and other really explosive aggro decks. But more testing really needs to be done.
It has positive matchups vs ***** and Doranrock/deadguy.

Cards to think of:
The only card I've been pondering about is bitterblossom. It sounds really strong vs pure control matches.

The end...
If you find any other findings on weaknesses and strenghts of this deck please note me and I will add them to the list.

Also props for the one that finds a kickass deckname for this deck!

Maveric78f
03-05-2008, 04:13 AM
This deck doesn't depend on the grave and is able to play the control roll late game pretty well.

Your only kill rely on the yard. But anyway, the graveyard thresh dependency is no more a weakness since playing grave hate against Thresh is a poor play.

Waikiki
03-05-2008, 04:50 AM
Im not talking about ***** in particular when talking about grave dependancy but more about loam/ichorid etc.

And yes my deck runs a kill card that needs me to remove some cards in the graveyard. That's 2 Tombstalkers. Do you board gravehate to fight him? I think not.

Iranon
03-05-2008, 05:12 AM
Is this supposed to be a niche deck, or to tackle an open metagame?

It looks solid to face an environment defined by combo and Thresh-style aggro/control to handle it.
I wouldn't be confident about taking on aggro or dedicated board control with this (although Bitterblossom might indeed help against the latter).

Waikiki
03-05-2008, 06:00 AM
Well my meta mostly contains aggro/controll decks but the deck is also able to handle aggro pretty well. Pure controll is harder but also doable.

idraleo
03-05-2008, 07:51 AM
why run Ponder over Fact or Fiction or Thirst for Knowledge? I think that Thirst shouLd improve your card advantage as well, and adding the 3rd\4th Sensei is better at once. By the way, i think that you shouldn't run a deck like this as an aggrocontrol deck, the better way is to create a solid deck that could handle down aggroish and aggro control. Otherwise, with a decklist like the first you post, i think is hard for you to beat fast aggro decks cause you can't run StP or first turn removal, and you are waek against control like landstill cause you don't put as muh pression as you got to do against those decks.

Waikiki
03-05-2008, 08:56 AM
I do not need anymore Cardadvantage. Ponder is in the deck to find things/shuffle your deck and most of al for the early game.

If dedicated controll would become big then the bitterblossoms come in mind.

Maveric78f
03-06-2008, 03:36 AM
I really don't get the synergy between shackles and the 12 islands you play. You should either remove shackles or moxen and wastes.

I also think that ponder is weak in such a control deck and that 3 counterbalance + 4 stifles is too much anti combo.

// Mana 20
2 [A] Island (1)
4 [b] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [A] Swamp (2)
4 Chome Mox


// Kills 13
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
1 [FUT] Tombstalker
4 [OD] Shadowmage Infiltrator
4 Bitterblossoms

// Spells 27
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [ON] Smother
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Brainstorm
2 Counterbalance
4 Jittes
3 Thirst for Knowledge

// Sideboard
???

It's the route I would go. Jitte + evasive guys being your best play.

kikkofrio
03-06-2008, 10:57 AM
I think that is bettere one more sensei and one more removal insted of vedalken.

Artifact maybe a big problem pre and post side.
17 land are enough?
I would try something like this.

// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [R] Underground Sea
2 [B] Swamp (1)
2 [P3] Island (1)
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
3 [OD] Shadowmage Infiltrator
2 [FUT] Tombstalker
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant

// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [LRW] Ponder
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
3 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [NE] Daze
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [OD] Ghastly Demise
3 [ON] Smother

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 4 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [TE] Diabolic Edict
SB: 2 FREE SLOTS


Good idea, I haven't tested it yet, but can CB-engine and denial strategy works together?

Waikiki
03-06-2008, 11:27 AM
I've not liked ghastly demise because it can't kill confidant and doran, two creatures that see alot of play in my meta. So far the denial strategy + CB work fine with me. I've made the -1 ponder +1 top change in my first list and replaced the spell snares with jittes in the side. I haven't tested them yet but it seems good on paper.

Arsenal
03-06-2008, 12:02 PM
I've always wanted to play a traditional UB control deck, but the current meta doesn't seem to allow it. Post up your testing results when you can.

idraleo
03-06-2008, 01:18 PM
Why don't you run at least 2 Shriekmaws in you maindeck? They are both removal and finishers, thanks to te fear ability, and avoid your opponent Counterbalance, meaning that they are the best wapon to go and kill a goyf. Thanks to theyr P\T they kills Mongoose too, meaning that against ******** based they are often a 2x1 card.

Do you really need Stifle on your main? Your race is slow then a classic ******** build, and if you want to use they as mana sweeper on fetchlands probably they won't be as good as they are in decklist that abuse of Goyfs clock. I think that running counterbalance you will be far to get an autoloss by comboish like TES, Iggy and Solidarity.

i added Sickening Shoal cause i saw they are pretty well against all creatures, killing everything from goyf to bob to lakey, i think they sould be tested as well

// Lands
6 [CS] Snow-Covered Island
4 [B] Underground Sea
2 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
3 [TSB] Shadowmage Infiltrator
2 [LRW] Shriekmaw
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [FUT] Tombstalker

// Spells
3 [LRW] Ponder
3 [ON] Smother
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [BOK] Sickening Shoal
4 [NE] Daze
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [CS] Counterbalance

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [TE] Chill
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 [TE] Perish
SB: 4 [A] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [BOK] Sickening Shoal

Pulp_Fiction
03-06-2008, 01:25 PM
If you are having problems with goblins and other fast aggro (I would assume affinity) just put 4x Propaganda in the SB. That will greatly improve your goblins matchup and also, over smother I would run Vendetta to improve your aggro matches becasue your only answer to turn 1 Lackey is FoW and 2x Ghastly Demise and if you don't have a fetchland on the play, that could be bad times. The other option I see is playing Contagion over Smother, not nearly as good and has terrible synergy with Confidant but it looks like all your deck needs is to stall a little to setup the win.

Waikiki
03-06-2008, 04:16 PM
I'm not playing shriekmaw because I dont have problems killing just 1 goyf. I dont really have any problems with goyf. I have problems vs hordes of angry men. Also shriekmaw doesn't like being flipped with bob and neither does that extra stalker you have added.

My testing results with my current build are the following:

Goblins about even or slightly better for the goblin player.
Stifle/waste still work great to fight the manabase. and stifle also works vs ringleaders/matron and lackey.

The first game will probably be lost but the 4 BEB do great work.

Dragonstompy is a favourable mu thnx to the basics and chrome mox.
Just watch out for a early chalice.

*****. even or slightly favoured. All depends on how succesfull you are at disrupting their manabase. Sticking a bob or finkel is key.

BWG doran rock. favoured. 4 stifles and waste to get them off splash colors and deed effects. Shackless really loves stealing doran. and Counterbalance protects alot.

Landstill Unfavoured. Pure controll is a pain in the ass. im still trying to fit in bitterblossoms to fight them. If anyone has a better idea let me know ;)

Does anybody figured out a nice name yet?

claudio.r
03-08-2008, 05:54 PM
I used to play a deck that looked very much like yours, but i had a snow mana-base and Phyrexian Ironfoot and scrying sheets.
Scryign Sheets + Top + Counterbalance + Dark Confidant, created a very powerfull card advantage engine, and it was almost impossible to loose when the game went to mid/late game.
I also played 2 Jitte wich helped against the life loss of confidant, and usually the opponents didn't saw it coming.

Just food for thought.

Cavius The Great
03-08-2008, 06:12 PM
Does anybody figured out a nice name yet?

Blueberry Control?

Dilettante
03-08-2008, 09:25 PM
Blueberry Control?

It's really a mishmash... Blueberry Cobbler? Bioshock?

thefreakaccident
03-09-2008, 03:03 AM
I have tried it a thousand times, and it has never succeeded. It is possible to use both the counterbalance engine and the stifle/waste package.

They just do not mesh together properly, one requires quick tempo, the other requires mana and a couple turns, with one you cannot have the other.

Just pick a strategy and stick with it.

I do however like the idea of UB agro-control:

mana//20
4 underground sea
1 swamp
4 polluted delta
4 chrome mox
1 academy ruins
2 flooded strand
4 island

creatures//11
4 dark confidant
4 shadowmage infiltrator
3 trinket mage

spells//29
4 counterbalance
4 sensei's divining top
4 daze
4 force of will
4 thirst for knowledge
3 vedalken shackles
1 engineered explosives
1 pithing needle/artifact of choice
4 brainstorm

sideboard//
4 extirpate
4 engineered plague
4 back to basics
2 pithing needle
1 tormod's crypt


You just basically overwhelm the opponent in CA, and let your shackles do the talking as pseudo removal/kill condition... it clears the way for your dudes, you have 8 islands to work with, I think it is enough... ruins helps you bring back your junk cards, and allows you to have the always helpful ruins/explosives 'combo'.

A first turn confidant w/ daze backup os pretty strong as well I hear :).

If you are worried about mass amounts of thresh run some number of threads of dislayalty MD, or side, that'll really piss them off.

Nosomo.
03-09-2008, 03:52 AM
I have tried it a thousand times, and it has never succeeded. It is possible to use both the counterbalance engine and the stifle/waste package.

They just do not mesh together properly, one requires quick tempo, the other requires mana and a couple turns, with one you cannot have the other.

Just pick a strategy and stick with it.

I do however like the idea of UB agro-control:

mana//20
4 underground sea
1 swamp
4 polluted delta
4 chrome mox
1 academy ruins
2 flooded strand
4 island

creatures//11
4 dark confidant
4 shadowmage infiltrator
3 trinket mage

spells//29
4 counterbalance
4 sensei's divining top
4 daze
4 force of will
4 thirst for knowledge
3 vedalken shackles
1 engineered explosives
1 pithing needle/artifact of choice
4 brainstorm

sideboard//
4 extirpate
4 engineered plague
4 back to basics
2 pithing needle
1 tormod's crypt


You just basically overwhelm the opponent in CA, and let your shackles do the talking as pseudo removal/kill condition... it clears the way for your dudes, you have 8 islands to work with, I think it is enough... ruins helps you bring back your junk cards, and allows you to have the always helpful ruins/explosives 'combo'.

A first turn confidant w/ daze backup os pretty strong as well I hear :).

If you are worried about mass amounts of thresh run some number of threads of dislayalty MD, or side, that'll really piss them off.

Your mana base seems kind off. Yes you should to run chrome mox since you run Trinket and it is cool and all but it lowers your land count for VS and you do not need mox for this. And your land count seems kind of low for this since CB lock needs mana to keep it going and and fetchlands help witch contributes to my no mox idea. I got a few more ideas for you bob but I will call you to tell ya.
To Waikiki You are building your deck on fast draw which can be great to tombstalker but you only run 2 and you run Dark Confidant which leaves you with 2 8 hits and 4 5hits. This can do a good deal to you with six fetches. My solution if you want a more CB lock oriented go with freak/bob's build If you want a more tempo based I would go with Maveric78f's build but tweaked to go faster and drop CB.
As a name I could only think of Land of Confusion due to your deck running many different elements in the same deck.

thefreakaccident
03-10-2008, 01:24 AM
For a tempo version, you could also consider a stifle/nought deck:

lands//18
4 wasteland
3 polluted delta
4 underground sea
1 island
2 flooded strand
4 chrome mox


creatures//15
4 trinket mage
4 dark confidant
3 shadowmage infiltrator
4 phyrexian dreadnought


spells//27
4 force of will
4 daze
4 brainstorm
4 thoughtseize
4 stifle
4 trickbind
1 pithing needle/crypt/spellbomb
2 engineered explosives


sideboard//
4 extirpate (grave hate)
1 tormod's crypt
4 engineered plague (gobs is rough)
1 pithing needle
2 chain of vapor (good against agro/whatev for pseudo timewalk)
1 engineered explosives
2 gilded drake/take a crit slot for thresh MU

You are strictly tempo here, you either gain tempo off of chrome mox, or you strip away their first turns while setting up early diruption/protection/engines.

The coolest play I have gotten is first turn dreadnought on the play w/ daze backup, just to get thoughtseize next turn and kill them quickly.

Obviously this does not happen very often, but it is very cool to have every once in a blue moon.

Waikiki
03-10-2008, 05:31 AM
Ok this is my newest list:

// Lands
2 [A] Island (1)
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [B] Underground Sea
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [A] Swamp (2)

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
2 [FUT] Tombstalker
3 [OD] Shadowmage Infiltrator

// Spells
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [ON] Smother
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [LRW] Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [FUT] Yixlid Jailer
SB: 4 [A] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 2 [MOR] Bitterblossom

The 3rd top> 4th ponder.

Also jitte is very strong in the aggro mu during the evasive finkels.

Bitterblossom hasn't seen much play yet but im not giving up on it yet.

@dreadnaught idea: It has been something I've been thinking of lately but it doesn't seem good enough. I want to keep my main plan being disruption their manabase and winning by ca. I just can't protect the big 12/12 enough If I also want to be keep drawing more and more card.