PDA

View Full Version : Dwarves



Strawberry Dwarf
03-11-2008, 10:50 AM
Tribal decks in regular Legacy! People play Goblins, sometimes also Elves, Slivers and Rebels. But that is all. Other tribes/types are considered casual.

Dwarf is my favourite tribe. Are Dwarves played? No. But - why? I have put a question to myself: What makes Goblins so good and so popular? What kind of ability Goblins do have and Dwarves don't? The answer is simple: Ringleader! Goblins are autopilot: you can play straight for win, because if a control deck plays any mass removal, you don't worry, you play Ringleader, refuel and go again. This fact made classic control decks unviable, because they were losing to Goblins. The only hope were hate strategies: Antired and/or antitribal, based on enchantments, which red can't answer.

Dwarves are red, Dwarves are tribal. They die to the same hate as Goblins. And they don't have Ringleader to refuel, so they have much worse matchup vs control.

But Dwarves have 4 things, which Goblins don't have:
1) Nonbasic hate (Dwarven Miner & Blastminer) + LD (Pardic Miner, Mine Layer, Dwarven Driller)
2) Dwarven Recruiter doing the same thing as the Goblin one, but not being banned
3) Trample & pumping (Dwarven Berserker + Bloodboiler) - IMO this is especially good vs Tarmogoyf
4) Answer to EtW-horde with Bloodfire Dwarf

I have the following deck, it is pretty budget, the idea isn't mine:

Fling_Dwarves
monored casual, Legacy legal
Mana:
20 Mountain
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Dwarves:
4 Spark Mage
4 Bloodfire Dwarf
4 Dwarven Grunt
4 Dwarven Blastminer
4 Dwarven Berserker
4 Dwarven Bloodboiler
2 Dwarven Recruiter
2 Dwarven Vigilantes
1 Dwarven Warriors
Others:
4 Bonesplitter
3 Fling

Sideboard:
4 Thran Foundry
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Fury Charm
3 Manabarbs

The main strategy is pump Berserker (or mountainwalker or any other creature) with Bonesplitters and Bloodboiler, put combat (trample) damage on the stack and play lethal Fling to opponent's head. If opponent plays nonbasics, screw him with Blastminer. If he plays EtW soon, wipe the whole board with Bloodfire Dwarf. BoP, manaelves, Lackey and Bob can't survive Spark Mage. But still: this deck is waaay down from competitive level, although Thresh might have some problems and would need a little knowledge how to play against.

This build is one of the possibilities. Dwarves also have another possibilities instead of Fling:
- Dwarven Bloodboiler + Spikeshot Goblin
- Dwarven Recruiter + Goblin Charbelcher
- Dwarven Patrol + infinite recasting artifact
- Dwarven Strike Force + Balthor the Defiled (madness/reanimate mechanics)
- Dwarven Sligh deck (manacurve, direct damage, board control)
- Dwarven LD (Mine Layer, Pardic Miner, Dwarven Driller)

I have the following questions:
1. Did you ever try to play Dwarf deck (any format) competitively? If so, which kind of and how it performed?
2. What do you think: Are Dwarves worthy to create a deck around them in eternal today?
3. Will WotC print decent new Dwarves in a future?

The other older Dwarf discussion thread is here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8028&page=2&highlight=bloodboiler).

Nightmare
03-11-2008, 11:12 AM
But Dwarves have 4 things, which Goblins don't have:
1) Nonbasic hate (Dwarven Miner & Blastminer) + LD (Pardic Miner, Mine Layer, Dwarven Driller)
2) Dwarven Recruiter doing the same thing as the Goblin one, but not being banned
3) Trample & pumping (Dwarven Berserker + Bloodboiler) - IMO this is especially good vs Tarmogoyf
4) Answer to EtW-horde with Bloodfire Dwarf

Goblins has a plethora of things that Dwarves don't have.

A brief list, cause it goes on forever:
1) Haste
2) Cost reduction
3) Lackey
4) Siege-Gang Commander
5) Tribal removal spells
6) Ringleader
7) Demonic Tutor
8) Recursion

All of these are missing from the Dwarves. It's unlikely we'll see them, either, as Wizards has stuck pretty much with Gobs as the go-to red tribe for some time, and Kithkin have kind of taken over the role Dwarves once held.

Maveric78f
03-11-2008, 11:56 AM
2) Dwarven Recruiter doing the same thing as the Goblin one, but not being banned

That's completely wrong. The first searches for dwarves and the second searches for goblins, which is far far far better.

Willoe
03-12-2008, 11:03 AM
If you could find some way to abuse recruiter and brass herald, maybe in a food chain deck..? :D

romain7
03-12-2008, 10:06 PM
Ha! About the best thing you could do with dwarves is deny your opponent lands with pardic miners and the like for a few turns. That would not help you in the format of Legacy/ How many decks do you believe any dwarf deck could successfully beat? I'm sure you could build a decent list, but not running a high enough percentage of dwarves to ever conquer much. The goal would most likely have to be seperate, but with dwarves and support and disruption. Not that I wouldn't mind seeing a sweet dwarf deck. :)

Bardo
03-12-2008, 10:59 PM
Just, no.