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Sek'Kuar
03-11-2008, 12:47 PM
A while back I was on the Adept Q&A board and one of the responses said that due to the nature of green, it was very difficult to make a mono green deck that would be suited to Legacy. So thats what I set out to do. I wanted to play up green's style of cheap large creatures which, naturally, led me to an aggro build. I threw around several ideas with some friends, but because all of the creatures were so cheap (mostly :g: ) I wound up having too many excess land that never got used. none of us were smart enough to drop the land count below 18 until i was browsing the internet and found Deck Check (deckcheck.net) there was a player who had constructed a VERY similar deck to mine, and he only used 10 lands. I did some lite testing, and this is the deck i came up with.
PS. the sideboard credit goes to my friend Keith and the anonymous player/players who contributed to Deck Check. Thank you.

and without further ado:
THE DECK

lands: 10
10 forest

creatures: 27
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Ghazban Ogre
3 Quirion Ranger
3 River Boa
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
3 Skyshroud Elite
4 Pouncing Jaguar

Non-Creature Spells:23
4 Berserk
3 Bounty of the Hunt
4 Giant Growth
4 Land Grant
4 Briar Sheild
4 Rancor

Sideboard:
3 Naturalize
4 Oxidize
2 Compost
3 Tormods Crypt
3 Winter Orb


Your basic strategy is to play your creatures ASAP and pump with anything, if you can blast through, add on a Berserk. It doesn't matter if your creatures die, you have 27 of them.



Individual Cards:

Ghszban Ogre. Because the deck tends to be fast, you don't really have to worry about ther drawback.

Boa. Nice vs. anything blue

Quirion Ranger, allows you to go all out and still block.



Addressing the Sideboard:

Winter Orb: a boon to this deck as very few of the cards need more than one mana to be played.

Crypt: Goyf hate, thresh hate, anything that requires a graveyard hate...

Grip/Oxidize: kills jitte, SoFI SoLaS, Vial, Trini, needle...etc. etc. etc....

Compost, helps a lot, especially since most decks run black



Questions to address:
1.) Taiga/SSG for fling?
2.)Maybe add Jitte?
3.)Maybe add Vial?
4.)Can it Support Tarmogoyf?
b.)Does it NEED Tarmogoyf?

I DON'T want this to become a sligh variant.
Questions? Opinions? Suggestions? I'm eager to hear them. Thanks!

thefreakaccident
03-11-2008, 01:40 PM
The deck is called 9-land stompy... the only suggestion I have is add goyf and possibly add another color, you cannot hope to win an attack phase without goyfs of your own, and mono-green has proven too weak too many times in the past.

Thehunter820
03-11-2008, 03:24 PM
^ ya, -1 land = 9 land stompy, here's the main problems, no card advantage, your creatures are fairly weak, you have no removal or counter magic, and green without goyfs? are you on something lol. your best bet is to go with green and a splash of 1 or 2 colors which is heading dangerously toward thresh. the closest deck type with 1 color splash is probly just goyf sligh though

noobslayer
03-11-2008, 03:55 PM
Cards to consider:

Tarmogoyf. No reason not to run him in the current metagame.

Jungle Lion. Not good, not bad. Decent all around.

Vine Dryad. Some friends of mine saw a fair bit of local success with stompy, and this card was often fairly used, and was usually a good call.

Other things to consider are perhaps some fetchlands to fuel Tarmogoyf, and thin your deck out.

Splashing Black: This gives you a number of options. It gives you discard in the form of Thoughtseize and Duress/Cabal Therapy for those hard combo and control match-ups. It also gives you Snuff Out, which is a huge tempo boost on steroids and laughs at Tarmogoyf while you crash on in. Splashing black also potentially gives you Dark Confidant, or Darkheart Sliver.

Dilettante
03-11-2008, 04:35 PM
I'd take a look at CHaPuZaS' build of Berserk Stompy (http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=304975) for ideas. It seems to work better for today's metagame. It runs 17 land, a few less critters, but can be quite explosive... not to mention that Silhana Ledgewalker is a major 'out' for the deck, giving you an outlet with evasion that you can uberpump with little to fear save Pernicious Deed, Engineered Explosives (and you can see those miles away), and Diabolic Edict. It shifts the fundamental mana curve away from 1 a bit, reducing your vulnerability to Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere, which you can dance around until you blow up their hindering conditions with Seeds of Innocence. It runs 2 Tarmogoyf because it is only the third most-useful 2-drop for that particular deck, though Kavu Predator does have its issues of being very reliant on Invigorate. However, a 6/6 for 2 mana is nothing to shake a stick at if you can pull it off... and with Invigorate and Berserk... game over if it hits. It is also randomly useful against things like Exalted Angel. I've been using the deck to fairly good effect... Of course, this deck was made before the rise of Dredge decks... but this deck can still pull off the turn 2 kill.

Pulp_Fiction
03-12-2008, 03:36 PM
Decks like this are some of my favorites, they are so entertaining, but I learned, thats basically all they are. From what I have seen the deck completly rolls to Goblins and Affinity as they are usually just faster and have more and better creatures in play. The deck should wreck Thresh and other random blue control due to its pure speed and threat density but will lose to Stax and Dragon Stompy most of the time, depending on both players draws. If you were to build it, don't play 2-3 copies of any creature, play 4x or none. And I hate to echo Tarmogoyf because I am so fucking sick of hearing about that card but he belongs in this deck. The proper creature base for 9-Land Stompy should be something like:

4x Jungle Lion
4x Skyshroud Elite
4x Vine Dryad
4x Pouncing Jaguar
4x Rogue Elephant
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Tarmogoyf

Those are IMOP the optimal creatures to play in the deck, some people like Harvest Wurm but I think its to situational much like Kavu Predator which requires Invigorate, the Wurm requires Rogue Elephant to be effective. Then something like:

4x Land Grant
4x Rancor
4x Bounty of the Hunt
3x Winter Orb (could be Invigorate and move these to the side)
4x Beserk
4x Briar Shield
9x Snow-Covered Forest because they kick ass!

The deck is a blast to play but there are so many weaknesses to it I really don't see a reason to play this over something like Eva Green and Suicide Black.

Obfuscate Freely
03-12-2008, 04:07 PM
Why do people always insist on running Pouncing Jaguar in these decks? Investing :g::g: into a 2/2 is not efficient enough to make the cut.

Berserk might be more arguable, but it shouldn't be run, either. The best use for pump is to save your guys in combat and protect them from removal spells. Berserk does the opposite, opening you up to horrendous trades in the name of being "explosive."

The deck should certainly play Tarmogoyf, probably in the slots that used to be occupied by River Boas.

4x Jungle Lion
4x Skyshroud Elite
4x Skaargan Pit-Skulk
4x Rogue Elephant
4x Quirion Ranger
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Vine Dryad
3x Ghazban Ogre

4x Rancor
4x Giant Growth
4x Bounty of the Hunt

4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Land Grant
9x Forest

The Ghazban Ogres are questionable, since they preclude you from running fetchlands (which would help Tarmogoyf), but I'm not sure if there is a suitable replacement.

Before Counterbalance and Tarmogoyf, this deck performed extremely well against Threshold, without being a complete dog to Goblins and Solidarity. I'm not sure where it stands, now, though.

Tacosnape
03-12-2008, 04:13 PM
Berserk might be more arguable, but it shouldn't be run, either. The best use for pump is to save your guys in combat and protect them from removal spells. Berserk does the opposite, opening you up to horrendous trades in the name of being "explosive."

4x Rancor


Wouldn't your argument against Berserk apply to Rancor as well?

Dilettante
03-12-2008, 04:25 PM
Unfortunately, in today's metagame, there is this little "grizzly bear" that's gotten too big for his britches that eats decks that lack pure pumps to shreds. Silhana Ledgewalker, if there were 2 more, I'd run 10-12 in a monogreen, but she gives you insurance against most things they could throw to stuff your strong pumping. You do open the door to being 2 for 1'd, but that's if you concentrate on early pumping only like a machine instead of trying to read your opponent and committing resources as necessary. Are they leaving mana free to smother you turn 2-3 when they could get a tarmogoyf in play? Most decks would drop the tarmogoyf to be able to block your 'weenies' and worry about control later... but if they are going into early control, just go heavier aggro and give them more targets... because they certainly aren't trying to block you. Berserk can let you win races. Tarmogoyf turns them into marathons, but the deck is built for a sprint.

Obfuscate Freely
03-12-2008, 04:30 PM
Rancor plays quite differently. It is much easier to choose when to play it, so you can catch your opponent tapped out. This is especially true in the early turns, in which Berserk may not be lethal, but Rancor is at its best.

Also, If your opponent is threatening damage-based removal, you can bait them with Rancor, and then save your creature (and the Rancor on the stack) with another pump spell.

Berserk is something that your opponent will usually be able to see coming, and it will always require the investment of more cards than Rancor.

It is also relevant that Rancor is simply a much better card than Berserk.


EDIT: @ Dilettante: Silhana Ledgewalker costs 2, so she has to compete with Tarmogoyf and River Boa in a 9-land deck. Her poor power:cost ratio (she is not a Grizzly Bear) pretty much rules her out.

Ledgewalker obviously makes sense in a deck like the one you linked to in your previous post, with more mana sources and a focus on pump spells. However, such decks suffer from inconsistency issues and a great vulnerability to removal.

Dilettante
03-12-2008, 04:44 PM
Consider the typical removal in this day and age...
You almost never see Lightning Bolt anymore.
People choose cards like Shriekmaw, StP, Ghastly Demise, Smother, Snuff Out, Pernicious Deed, Engineered Explosives, and Vindicate primarily. The sweepers and Shriekmaw are obvious... the others, you can try to sniff them out, but generally, the best defense against them... is to throw down more threats. They are still 1:1 cards and if they are committing them as an instant, they are usually tipping their hand to you that they are rearing to use them. Every time they hold back, they are taking a tempo loss if you are committing more unless they can immediately go into a board sweep, so you keep an eye out on their mana types... and if post-board, you're playing Pithing Needles to get around most of them save like Infest and Pyroclasm... However, the decks that run such have a tendency to lack instants... Them emptying their mana pool to commit blockers gives you your cue to pump and just watch out for something like Snuff Out, in which you *still* get 2:1'd, but get a degree of tempo gain.

Obfuscate Freely
03-12-2008, 04:53 PM
Instead of explaining how to play the Berserk deck around removal, you're going to have to explain why it isn't better to instead play the 9-land deck, which makes removal that much less of a factor to begin with.

Traditional Stompy's strengths are consistency, speed, and threat density. The latter is the single biggest reason the deck does well against Threshold. What do you gain by giving that up?

Dilettante
03-12-2008, 05:15 PM
Instead of explaining how to play the Berserk deck around removal, you're going to have to explain why it isn't better to instead play the 9-land deck, which makes removal that much less of a factor to begin with.

Traditional Stompy's strengths are consistency, speed, and threat density. The latter is the single biggest reason the deck does well against Threshold. What do you gain by giving that up?

Everyone has their own playstyle, but... both builds have their advantages.

You stressed the threat density, and Magic is a game of balances and imbalances, depending on the 'bubble' everyone plays in.

With the 9-10-land Stompies, you do achieve greater consistency in getting a formidable army out quickly... But with this different build, you get access to slightly more mana... and I would be very afraid to run one that curved so low in this day and age because of the presence of Chalice of the Void and Trinispheres. A slightly higher curve allows for the opportunity to use Krosan Grip or Seeds of Innocence to recover and get back to business. You also have the ability (option) to dedicate less directly to the board, keeping more options in hand in case your opponent is sweeper-heavy because the threats are larger. And thus, it is also harder for your opponent to read you like a book. The explosiveness can allow you to win off of a topdeck as long as you hold back a measure. Neither is clearly superior, but is dependent on your meta, but those are among the benefits of what was put up. If your meta lacks Stompies and decks with heavy board sweep, 9-10 land may be the stronger choice.

romain7
03-12-2008, 11:04 PM
Skyshroud Ridgeback is an excellent card that never sees play in 9 land stompy. I can't really see why. It's better than a lot of the other creatures traditionally used.

Keen sense could be used for a bit of card tempo, although, usually that just makes a target out of the creature that it's played on. Played smartly though, you can divert attention away by slapping it on the least threatening creature or Skyshroud ridgeback, which your opponent will most likely take the damage and not destroy the ridgeback, because the thing will die in three turns anyway..

Also, I believe that krosan grip is a must have in the sideboard, for the simple fact that you need to counter chalices of the voids. THe three mana throws it off of the one and two mana curve, plus it is uncounterable(but not immune to chalice, but they won't chalice you for more than two.)That one chalice from any one of the stompy decks on turn one fucks you bloody. I, personally, would love to not have to wear a diaper for the rest of my life because of a broken schfincter. So, run krosan grip... or other chalices to counter them. Grip allows for a wider use, while chalice in your own SB allows you to not lose any tempo during the game.

Obfuscate Freely
03-13-2008, 08:58 AM
Skyshroud Ridgeback is an excellent card that never sees play in 9 land stompy. I can't really see why. It's better than a lot of the other creatures traditionally used.
Ridgeback is its own liability, and can only attack twice before dying. Even while he's still in play, his stats are only barely ahead of those of Ghazban Ogre, which is the weakest "traditionally used" creature.

Ridgeback is better than Pouncing Jaguar, but it still doesn't make the cut.


Keen sense could be used for a bit of card tempo, although, usually that just makes a target out of the creature that it's played on. Played smartly though, you can divert attention away by slapping it on the least threatening creature or Skyshroud ridgeback, which your opponent will most likely take the damage and not destroy the ridgeback, because the thing will die in three turns anyway..
Keen Sense doesn't deal damage, and doesn't really generate tempo in a deck with such a ridiculously low curve.

As an aside, it sounds like your hypothetical opponent agrees with me that Ridgeback is subpar.


Also, I believe that krosan grip is a must have in the sideboard, for the simple fact that you need to counter chalices of the voids. THe three mana throws it off of the one and two mana curve, plus it is uncounterable(but not immune to chalice, but they won't chalice you for more than two.)That one chalice from any one of the stompy decks on turn one fucks you bloody. I, personally, would love to not have to wear a diaper for the rest of my life because of a broken schfincter. So, run krosan grip... or other chalices to counter them. Grip allows for a wider use, while chalice in your own SB allows you to not lose any tempo during the game.
In a deck with 9 lands, the extra mana for Krosan Grip is prohibitive. Also, a Chalice of the Void with 0 counters will not counter a Chalice of the Void on the stack, unless the incoming Chalice is being cast for :0:.

The best artifact answer for Stompy to play is probably Sundering Vitae, or perhaps Seal of Primordeum. Of course, that's only necessary if you're actually playing in some weird metagame with a bunch of Chalices and Trinispheres running around. If that's the case, why are you playing 9-Land Stompy?

romain7
03-13-2008, 06:31 PM
Perhaps you're right about the ridgeback and keen sense. I just believe that ridgeback is stronger than the weakest link that is already run in the deck, but not the best creature availaable. I see no reason not to run it over the jaguars. As for keen sense, I was just making a suggestion for some added tempo.

You are, however, wrong about a chalice at 0 countering a chalice played at one or anything else. When chalice is countering a spell, it looks at the converted mana cost of the card, or the number in the upper right-hand corner. In chalice's case, it has two X's. X's count as zero when counting a card's converted mana cost. THerefore, it would not matter whatever the opponent paid as X, chalice at 0 will counter any chalice played no matter what, as the cost is essentially 0. But, this would mst likely be a terrible SB card, nevertheless.

eternaldarkness
03-17-2008, 08:59 AM
I'm pretty sure that the converted casting cost of any X spell is equal to the amount of mana paid for X while the aforementioned spell is on the stack. The only time the XX of Chalice of the Void is equal to zero is when it is in your hand, library, graveyard and in play (i.e. not on the stack).

This is also the reason why a Consume spirit for ten can't be countered by a chalice of the void set at two.

Sek'Kuar
03-19-2008, 05:27 PM
I just thought of something...Dryad Arbor. It gives a forest AND a free 1/1 body. It seems like the perfect fit for this deck. Any thoughts?

Dilettante
03-19-2008, 06:18 PM
I just thought of something...Dryad Arbor. It gives a forest AND a free 1/1 body. It seems like the perfect fit for this deck. Any thoughts?

Not very good. It sloths you. Remember that, like any other creature, it may not use any abilities that require tapping until its next turn unless it has haste... including tapping for mana. It's like playing a llanowar elf on turn 1 and no forest.

dahcmai
03-20-2008, 05:49 AM
This is still the fastest I have seen. It still makes me want some Winter Orb Action, but I'm not so sure that thing does much anymore.

5 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Quirion Ranger

3 Vine Dryad
3 Rogue Elephant
4 Jungle Lion
4 Skaggan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Street Wraith

4 Rancor
4 Briar Shield
3 Giant Growth
3 Might of Old Krosa

Tano
03-20-2008, 10:22 AM
Hey,

this is my first posting at the source!

@Ishan: I guess it was my deck that you found at deckcheck and i pláyed this deck at a tournament in Hanau/Germany and won that tournament. But that was in Nov/2006.

Here is the listing i would play at the moment:

4 x Elvish Spirit guide
4 x Vine Dryad
4 x Quirion Ranger
4 x Skyshroud Elite
4 x Kavu Predator
2 x Tarmogoyf
3 x Rogue elephant
3 x Skarrgan Pit Skulk

4 x Land Grant

4 x Berserk
4 x Bounty of the Hunt
4 x Invigorate
4 x Rancor
2 x Briar Shield

10 x Forest


hope u will enjoy that too and if you have some questiones, just ask :)

NecroYawgmoth
03-21-2008, 05:08 PM
It's not good to play Bounty of the Hunt and Vine Dryad in the same Deck... you lose too much cards because of the pitch...

Vine Dryad is a 1 atk card for the price of another card, thats not better than Ledgewalker, so why should you play them...

You don't need them against Aggro, because you race Aggro...

YawG

Obfuscate Freely
03-21-2008, 06:24 PM
It's not good to play Bounty of the Hunt and Vine Dryad in the same Deck... you lose too much cards because of the pitch...

Vine Dryad is a 1 atk card for the price of another card, thats not better than Ledgewalker, so why should you play them...

You don't need them against Aggro, because you race Aggro...

YawG
You can get away with running both Vine Dryad and Bounty of the Hunt, because the deck has a huge density of green cards, and the two pitch spells even feed each other. The card disadvantage is outweighed by the speed and power (relatively speaking) of the two cards.

And yes, Vine Dryad is good. She's free, which gives you the ability to play more than one threat on the first turn. She has forestwalk, which is extremely relevant evasion with Tarmogoyf running around (even Goblins often splashes green). She has three toughness, which survives Pyroclasm and a lot of other damage sources. She has a converted cost of four, which is resistant to Pernicious Deed and Counterbalance. She's also playable at instant speed, which can catch people off-guard in multiple ways.

Now, you could argue that none of those things can outweigh the fact that a 1/3 is an unimpressive threat, but all of that combined makes for a solid case. I've always been happy to play Vine Dryad.

Tano
03-31-2008, 06:43 AM
thx a lot,

i couldn`t write it better :)
Vine dryad is great and won a lot of matches, because of her forestwalk ability. Furthermore this creature is great when opponent puts a chalice of the void on cc1 or cc2 into play and her power "1" is often pimped by puting rancor or briar shield or both on her. And dont forget, if opponent begins the match, your are able to kill him on turn 1 by using Vine dryad!! No other stompy, that doesnt run a vine dryad, is able to do so.

Vine Dryad and Bounty of the hunt are pitch spells, but u run 50 green cards in this deck and it isnt a disadvantage. You just have to watch out, that you dont overextend by pitching too early. You often pitch when u kill the opponent in that turn.

Curby
04-01-2008, 04:35 PM
I'd just like to note that Zerker Stompy has been discussed before:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?p=161662#post161662

A lot of the arguments here are rehashing old ones, e.g. Vine Dryad, Goyf, Zerk, etc.

I'm a little surprised that people still think Pouncing Jaguar is viable. Trashing your turn 2 tempo makes Jag MUCH worse than Skyshroud Ridgeback, Ghazban Ogre, or Jungle Lion. Earlier, the point was also made that you're paying GG for a vanilla 2/2, which isn't good from that perspective either.

I still think having two Hidden Gibbons in 9-land Stompy is tons of fun. At worst, they're pitched to Dryad/Bounty and sided out for game 2. At best, they force the opponent to choose between giving you a 4/4 for G and having dead cards in hand.

RE: Keen Sense: It's been said that Curiosity is not a good card in Legacy, but I'm increasingly tempted to try Keen Sense in Stompy. Even more so than with Burn, I'm finding myself fizzling out and losing because of it. With trample, 3 landwalks, Pit Skulks, and Ledgewalkers, we have 6 evasive options to help it trigger. It turns the enchanted creature into a lightning rod, but Ledgewalkers and Boas can protect themselves from certain removal. In a recent tourney, I went 3-1 with Stompy and my only lost round was against a Type 2 BU control deck whose life gain and removal slowed me enough to stall in game 2 for a 1-0 win. I might try it out next time I use Stompy. :)

Edit: How well does Compost work? My meta is really black-heavy, so I need some good black-hate.

Sek'Kuar
04-15-2008, 03:44 PM
How is Skyshroud Cutter? It is a free 2/2 as well as fuel for the Kavu Predator.
I just thought it may be viable in place of something else... perhaps the ranger. The only reason I suggest the ranger is because I never seem to use it. the only games I've managed to get it I already had superior board position, so I didn't need to use it.

Clark Kant
04-15-2008, 03:49 PM
I am playing...

10 Forest

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Ghazban Ogre
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Rogue Elephant
3 Street Wraith
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Jungle Lion
4 Tarmogoyf

3 Giant Growth
3 Might of Old Krosa
4 Land Grant
4 Briar Sheild
4 Rancor

I'm 80% sure that's the optimal build until Nom Nom is released.

Cavius The Great
04-15-2008, 09:10 PM
I am playing...

10 Forest

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Ghazban Ogre
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Rogue Elephant
3 Street Wraith
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Jungle Lion
4 Tarmogoyf

3 Giant Growth
3 Might of Old Krosa
4 Land Grant
4 Briar Sheild
4 Rancor

I'm 80% sure that's the optimal build until Nom Nom is released.

That's a sweet list, Clark. That's probably the best version I've seen so far. I'll probably build this list once I get Goyfs and Jungle Lions. :wink:

Clark Kant
04-15-2008, 10:14 PM
Thank you.

I don't believe in card disadvantage, and I don't believe in running 4 ofs that I never want to see more than one copy of in my opening hand. And I certainly don't believe in running the crappiest creature that still sees play in legacy (Pouncing Jaguar). Wow, two mana and tying up two of your turns for a 2/2 bear, that sounds positively pathetic.

So this is the list I wound up with.

I got to say though, it feels dirty running Goyfs in the deck, like I'm breaking some unwritten rule of 10 land stompy.

I suppose you could always run the new 2/1 for G from Shadowmoor in it's place if Goyfs are out of your budget.

I got to say though, the Goyfs are sweet here, they outclass all the creatures by so much that it doesn't even feel like 9 land stompy.

Cavius The Great
04-15-2008, 11:08 PM
Goyfs seem phenomenal in this list. You seem to run everything you can, in order to make it a 5/6. Great job. :wink:

EDIT: I would probably replace the Ghazban Ogres with the new Shadowmoor dude, since Street Wraith and Ghazban Ogre isn't a combo. =P

Clark Kant
04-15-2008, 11:37 PM
Already on my to do list, thank you. Cutting him will let me run fetchlands and play a full playset of Street Wraith actually. His dysynergy with Wraith was the main reason I restricted myself to playing 3 so I don't see two of them along with an Ogre early game.

My post Shadowmoor list is going to be...

6 Forest
4 Wooded Foothill
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

3 Quirion Ranger
3 Rogue Elephant
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Jungle Lion
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Street Wraith

2 Giant Growth
2 Might of Old Krosa
4 Briar Shield
4 Rancor

I won't know if I'm going too low on the pump spells list until I get a chance to test it. My opponents always fill up the instant requirement for Goyf so that's not a concern.

Tano
04-16-2008, 05:23 AM
Already on my to do list, thank you. Cutting him will let me run fetchlands and play a full playset of Street Wraith actually. His dysynergy with Wraith was the main reason I restricted myself to playing 3 so I don't see two of them along with an Ogre early game.

My post Shadowmoor list is going to be...

6 Forest
4 Wooded Foothill
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

3 Quirion Ranger
3 Rogue Elephant
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Jungle Lion
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Street Wraith

2 Giant Growth
2 Might of Old Krosa
4 Briar Shield
4 Rancor

I won't know if I'm going too low on the pump spells list until I get a chance to test it. My opponents always fill up the instant requirement for Goyf so that's not a concern.

Hey Clark,

did you ever playtested your list, that you posted here??? You only got 12 "pump spells" and they are all at casting cost 1. Then you play 22 creatures at casting cost 1. Every average "stompy" deck, like faerie stompy, demon stompy, empty the slogger and so on will win against ur deck at turn 1, by putting a chalice of the void for 1, into play. Game over, no solutiones in ur build. No pump u can play anymore and nearly no creature, u can play anymore.

In my opinion u need more than 12 pumpspells to run that kind of deck successfully and u need solutiones, if your opponent puts a chalice of the void for 1 into play or something else like a counterbalance.
To get rid of that problems i use to play 4 invigorate (cc3), 4 bounty of the hunt (cc5), 4 kavu predator (cc2), 4 vine dryad (cc4)... so u will be able to survive aggro control decks... and i only play 4 might of old krosa, if i play 4 berserks. Might of old Krosa without playing berserks is often to weak...

Clark Kant
04-16-2008, 06:20 AM
Yes I did (my pre shadowmoor list obviously), and that's why I feel comfortable in saying that you can't run this deck successfully period (any version of it) in any refined metagame with stuff like fairie stompy, dragon stompy, chalice, counterbalance, propaganda etc. Your 2/1s and 2/2s will get crushed. I've tried vine dryads, bounty of the hunts, everything, that doesn't change this deck's competitiveness. There's a reason you will never see this dekck in the Established Decks forum.

This is not a deck you should ever play in such a metagame. It's a casual deck to play for fun at random metagames. If you play in a developed meta, build dragon stompy. That deck is fairly cheap to build, and it's competitive.

Tano
04-16-2008, 08:45 AM
oops,

this deck is more than a fun deck and if u build it in a different way, than you did, it will be able to kill those stompy decks, like farie, demon empty the slogger and so on.... thats my experience from germany, where i play...

Cavius The Great
04-16-2008, 10:45 AM
Then you play 22 creatures at casting cost 1. Every average "stompy" deck, like faerie stompy, demon stompy, empty the slogger and so on will win against ur deck at turn 1, by putting a chalice of the void for 1, into play.

Why can't he just run Naturalize and Krosan Grip in the SB? Hell, even maindecking Viridian Zealot would be some insane tech versus Chalice.

Thehunter820
04-16-2008, 12:50 PM
this deck is more than a fun deck

I disagree, there are plenty of ways to shut this deck down.

Trinisphere
Chalice of the void
Combo off first
Counter/Top
Burn
even reanimating fatties

Those are just 5 common things off the top of my deck, and usually atleast one of them are in most decks. Once any of those happen this deck has alot of trouble coping and winning, even a mere Fog could cost this deck the game, and that's just terrible

Clark Kant
04-16-2008, 01:11 PM
Running inferior creatures for the sake of chalice is a bad idea because the deck is still vulnerable to a bunch of other commonly played cards.


I disagree, there are plenty of ways to shut this deck down.

Trinisphere
Chalice of the void
Combo off first
Counter/Top
Burn
even reanimating fatties



Don't forget about...
Ghostly Prison
Propaganda
Engineered Explosives
Veldalken Shackles
Pyroclasm/Infest
Any creature with a butt bigger than 2 (the problem Goyf was included to address)

And a ton of others.

It really is a poor deck performance wise. Any tourney wins it has ever had are more likely due to random luck and lucky matchups.

Thehunter820
04-16-2008, 03:27 PM
couldnt have said it better myself, mine as well add solitary confinment to the list

Curby
04-18-2008, 07:09 AM
Skyshroud Cutter doesn't seem worth it because it is so expensive (with either cost) that you want multiple Predators in play.

I've found that I absolutely need two mana for this deck to work at a reasonable speed, be it two Forests or a Forest and a Ranger. Even if you have a hand of 1-drops, an aggro deck casting one 1-drop a turn cannot win games even in a somewhat casual environment. I think I'll move up to using three Elephants though, and swap out a Ranger for a Forest as Kent did.

I'm more than a little concerned with the steadily decreasing sizes of our creatures though. Rangers, Skyshroud Elite, Jungle Lions, Pit Skulks, and Tattermunge Maniacs all (can) have an ass of 1, so you're that much more vulnerable to small-scale removal (and the new set brings with it a host of -1/-1 counters). This along with the lower amount of evasion and pump means that just about any early blockers can kill our entire gameplan or eat up all our pump, leading to a mid-game stall that this deck always hates to see.

I'll test this version (albeit without Goyfs, which quintuple the deck's cost), but I think that power/mana ratios aren't everything. In particular the ability of the Ledgewalker to avoid x-for-1s and "fly" over blockers has been extremely significant.

By the way, if you're not using pitch spells like Vine Dryad and Bounty, why use Land Grant over 4 more fetches? You're already vulnerable to Stifle with your 4 fetches, but Force of Will or Daze on your first turn Land Grant ends the game right there (you might have an ESG, but he'd see that as part of your alternate casting cost). EDIT: Ok, Goyf. But vulnerability to countermagic seems to outweigh the +1/+1 that the opponent will likely give you anyway.

Clark Kant
04-18-2008, 07:50 AM
Meh, land grant hasn't really been a problem. Like I said, I just play this casually though.

I agree with you on the butt of 1 though.

That's why I want to play...
4 Giant Growth
2 Might of Old Krosa

Pump is perfect for this deck.

But I need to cut two cards to make room.

Any suggestions on what two slots to free up for two more Giant Growth?

Should I just cut 2 Briar Shield?

Curby
04-18-2008, 08:18 AM
That's why I want to play...
4 Giant Growth
2 Might of Old Krosa

Pump is perfect for this deck.

But I need to cut two cards to make room.

Any suggestions on what two slots to free up for two more Giant Growth?

Should I just cut 2 Briar Shield?

It's a delicate balance... I actually prefer Might over Giant Growth in my evasive version of the deck, cause the +4 is more likely to go through, and */+2 does just as well against Pyroclasm (and Flamebreak, for the bigger guys). I would not cut Briar Shields especially because it's always there boosting toughness, so as long as it sticks, removal has to work harder to kill the critter.

If the overall goal is to tweak the creature/pump ratio, take out 2 of your less capable critters. If Giant Growths are consistently more useful for you than Mights of Old Krosa, just run a 4/0 "split." Consistent, optimized decks don't usually run too many 2-ofs and 3-ofs, after all. Along the same lines, if Briar Shields never stick and/or always get 2-for-1ed, you can take them all out for more instant-speed pumpers.

EDIT: Unless you're rolling in mana, you usually have to tip your hand to play Land Grant. Just another point against it. :tongue:

Clark Kant
04-18-2008, 01:02 PM
You're right about the Land Grants. I'm going to run 3 Forest and 1 Pendelhaven in their place.

Instant Pump and Giant Growth works well for me against aggro. So I think I want to run 6. It can make my 2/1 into a surprise big enough to kill the Tombstalker they block it with etc. Or once they see a Giant Growth, I can feign having one to get attackers through.


My post Shadowmoor list is going to be...

1 Pendelhaven
9 Forest
4 Wooded Foothill
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

3 Quirion Ranger
3 Rogue Elephant
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Jungle Lion
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Street Wraith

2 Giant Growth
2 Might of Old Krosa
4 Briar Shield
4 Rancor

What two creatures do you think are weak and should be cut for 2 Giant Growth?

Also, I always feel like I want 2 Forests in my hand, so I can play creatures out faster, rather than play them out one at a time.

Should I cut something to make room for more land?

xsockmonkeyx
04-18-2008, 01:11 PM
So, my little piece of tech in 9LS is 1x Dryad Arbor. It turns mid game land grants and/or fetches into a dude that can grab Rancor and as a little bonus it does all the pitching stuff. The drawback of drawing him every now and then is usually offset by adding ~5 more "threats" to your deck (more threatening than a Land Grant anyway).

raharu
04-18-2008, 06:27 PM
Is there any reason that this deck shouldn't run red? You gain Lightning Bolt, Brute Force, and Scab-Clan Mauler for a small color splash. The manabase would look something like this, perhaps?

4x Wooded Foothills
4x Tiga
perhaps 1x or 2x basic lands?

with the other 50 cards looking like this:
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

3 Rogue Elephant
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Jungle Lion
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Scab-Clan Mauler

3 Seal of Fire/ Street Wraith/ Quirion Ranger/ Fireblast (???)/ (pretty much just an empty slot)

4 Giant Growth
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brute Force
4 Rancor

Cavius The Great
04-18-2008, 06:56 PM
Is there any reason that this deck shouldn't run red? You gain Lightning Bolt, Brute Force, and Scab-Clan Mauler for a small color splash. The manabase would look something like this, perhaps?

4x Wooded Foothills
4x Tiga
perhaps 1x or 2x basic lands?

with the other 50 cards looking like this:
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

3 Rogue Elephant
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Jungle Lion
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Scab-Clan Mauler

3 Seal of Fire/ Street Wraith/ Quirion Ranger/ Fireblast (???)/ (pretty much just an empty slot)

4 Giant Growth
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brute Force
4 Rancor

You run Red and no Kird Apes? Are they too good to be included in a "signature" Raharu list? =P

raharu
04-18-2008, 07:15 PM
10LS/ Agro in general =/= my specialty. In hindsight the would most likely take thier slots from Skarrgan Pit-Skulk or Tattermunge Maniac, although mabeyhaps Rogue Elephant could be replaced.

Sek'Kuar
04-18-2008, 07:32 PM
if you want to add red you may as well play an awful version of sligh. 9 land is mono G. And although it is not widely played, it is still an archetype.

raharu
04-18-2008, 07:55 PM
Lightning Bolt is pretty much just another pump effect, Apes and Maulers add more effective threats, and the manabase shouldn't experience any real strain from the splash considering that you can run off of 1 or 2 lands and 8 of 10 sources (possible 10 of 10 with shocklands) supply or fetch both. Why not exploit the advantages that red could provide (serious question to which I don't know the answer to, answers apreciated).

edgewalker
04-18-2008, 08:07 PM
Lightning Bolt is pretty much just another pump effect, Apes and Maulers add more effective threats, and the manabase shouldn't experience any real strain from the splash considering that you can run off of 1 or 2 lands and 8 of 10 sources (possible 10 of 10 with shocklands) supply or fetch both. Why not exploit the advantages that red could provide (serious question to which I don't know the answer to, answers apreciated).

Why not just play goyf sligh then, since ya know, it's just plain better.

Sek'Kuar
04-20-2008, 07:45 AM
Why not just play goyf sligh then, since ya know, it's just plain better.

Thank you sir, you have just reinforced my point

*adds two +1/+1 counters*

Clark Kant
04-20-2008, 04:41 PM
Yes, 10 land aggro is monogreen, end of story. If you want to splash a color, play a viable/competitive deck like goyf sligh.

In my build above, I went to using 0 Might of Old Krosa and 4 Giant Growth.

With Krosa, I felt tempted too often to play it during my main phase, with Giant Growth, I can trade my guys with Goyfs, and nueter burn.

So to get back on topic, any problems that you guys forsee with this list?

1 Pendelhaven
9 Forest
4 Wooded Foothill
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

3 Quirion Ranger
3 Rogue Elephant
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Jungle Lion
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Street Wraith

4 Giant Growth
4 Briar Shield
4 Rancor

Curby
04-21-2008, 03:54 PM
Is there any reason that this deck shouldn't run red? You gain Lightning Bolt, Brute Force,


I wouldn't consider Brute Force because I'm not running Giant Growth. Rancor is an auto-in, and I also use Bounty of the Hunt (saves against sweepers, plays nasty combat tricks), Briar Shield (1+1+1+3>0+0+0+3), and Might of Old Krosa (which I can use more effectively because of my evasion-heavy list).

As the deck evolves, I think I may adopt a list like Kent's. For me, this involves removing Land Grant for fetches, Bounty of the Hunt for Street Wraith, and Vine Dryad for Tarmogoyf. However, it pains me that these changes greatly increase the cost of building the deck, so I may have to strike a balance. =)

In a casual environment, there are too many decks that cannot answer Silhana Ledgewalker, so it will stay in. This also gives me more reason to include a Pendelhaven. I'm still testing Keen Senses, but so far 3 in the main deck seem very positive.

I've come up against some problems with counter-happy opponents, and the designs without pitch spells are entirely curveless, and roll over to Countertop and Chalice. Killing Counterbalance is very difficult with 2-mana spells, you may get lucky with Krosan Grip, but finding the 2G to cast it is occasionally difficult.

Is Leyline of Lifeforce a reasonable answer? While it doesn't save your pump spells from countermagic, it allows you to get around Counterbalances, Chalices, as well as hardcast counterspells.

Clark Kant
04-21-2008, 07:31 PM
Yes, Leyline of Lifeforce was designed for the sideboards of decks like this. It's a perfect fit in your build since you are also playing Bounty of the Hunt to pitch it if you topdeck it. It should work well in any build of this deck actually.

Curby
04-25-2008, 03:34 AM
While Curiosity is well-hated, it seems that Stompy (can) make good use of Keen Senses. Last week I had a 3-0-1 finish for 2nd out of 20ish players with my evasive Stompy deck, albeit in a casual environment.

Maindeck:

10 Forest
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
3 Quirion Ranger (#4 became Forest #10 to support Elephant #3)

4 Jungle Lion
4 Silhana Ledgewalker (Size isn't everything)
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Vine Dryad
3 Rogue Elephant
3 Skyshroud Elite (Casual means few nonbasics)

4 Rancor
4 Might of Old Krosa
3 Bounty of the Hunt
3 Keen Senses
3 Briar Shield

Side:

4 Winter Orb
4 Naturalize
3 Pithing Needle
2 Rushwood Legate
2 Hidden Gibbons (I can't help it... it's a pet card)

Round 1 vs Coalition Victory

Yeah, casual meta. I win twice at 20 life both times. I sided in Legates, and maybe Winter Orbs. This deck had power like Revised Dual Lands, but Coalition Victory is a difficult win condition...

1-0

Round 2 vs weird Reanimator

False Prophet tricks and I don't know what else... he died twice with me at 20 life again. I still hadn't seen Keen Senses yet.

2-0

Round 3 vs RGB sligh

Bob vs Keen Senses, burn vs pump, Revised Dual Lands vs basic Forests. This match was fun. Game 1, I took him from 16 to 0 with a single unblockable Pit-Skulk on turn 3. Double Might, Bounty, and Shield on a thirsty Pit-Skulk hurts. :cool: He returns the favor by taking me down from 15 to 0 in a single turn in game 2. Creatures beat for 7 and triple bolt finishes the job. I don't remember what happened in game 3 but I keep overextending, thinking he's more likely to have Edicts than mass removal. I won on the back of a Double-Keen Silhana. He shows me the Edict in his hand after he dies.

3-0

Round 4 vs Countertop control with Psychatog finish (GAT/NQG?)

I know what he's playing so I'm expecting to lose. First game I beat for the win, thus reaching my goal for this round. Second game he plays conservatively and slowly, eventually winning but taking too much time. Third game, he should have won but we went to time because his kill condition was slow. I never get to Needle his Psychatog. :cry:

3-0-1

Post-shadowmoor/next version:
-1 Forest
+1 Pendlehaven
-1 Silhana Ledgewalker
-1 Vine Dryad
-1 Might of Old Krosa
+3 Tattermunge Maniac

Side:
4 Winter Orb
4 Leyline of Lifeforce
4 Naturalize (Gleeful Sabotage?)
3 Pithing Needle

I'm turning one of the Forests into a Pendlehaven because of all the 1/1 creatures in the deck, and adding a few Maniacs even though the ability to not attack is more important to me than the ability to block (in other words, I think Jungle Lion is better than the Maniac). Keen Senses will stay in until they stop working for me. Any other suggestions? Is 13 pump enough?

Sek'Kuar
04-27-2008, 08:02 AM
I can see where Keen sense might be a good card, but perhaps sideboard only. I have found myself ok for then most part without an additional draw, but there may be times when it could be quite useful.

Curby
04-27-2008, 11:08 PM
If you're swarming with nonevasive guys, it's going to suck. With landwalking, Silhana, etc., it becomes a lot better. I'm almost tempted to throw Mire/River Boas into the side, but I know there is better stuff that belongs there. :rolleyes:

Sek'Kuar
05-07-2008, 12:50 PM
Does Tattermunge Maniac have a place in this deck?

rufus
05-07-2008, 01:50 PM
Does Tattermunge Maniac have a place in this deck?

I'd *strongly* suggest looking at Kird Ape first.

Curby
05-08-2008, 02:46 AM
The only Kird Ape we run is Skyshroud Elite, cause we can't get the red mana. Maniac can be used whenever it replaces an inferior creature, but I'm only running 2-3 Maniacs right now, and 4 Jungle Lions. Even if we're aggro, I prefer choosing when I attack. Since I'm aggro, I'm not too concerned with blocking anyway.

Iranon
05-08-2008, 03:59 AM
Is the whole deck concept viable compared to The Cure? Almost the same 'pump of doom' with the benefit of huge threats that can win on their own, Bobs, a way to win outside the combat phase and between half a turn to a turn faster.

Given the overal power of Legacy, I would suspect straightforward stompy decks to be outdated.

Aznopium
05-16-2008, 06:09 PM
Is the whole deck concept viable compared to The Cure? Almost the same 'pump of doom' with the benefit of huge threats that can win on their own, Bobs, a way to win outside the combat phase and between half a turn to a turn faster.

Given the overal power of Legacy, I would suspect straightforward stompy decks to be outdated.

:)
I dont think anyone here hinks 10land stompy can be a legit contender with the kinda decks in legacy.

It is a fun deck, really made for a casual environment.

Aznopium
08-05-2008, 10:01 AM
With Talara's Battalion/Nettle Sentinel, we could revisit the makeup of 10 land stompy/berserk stompy/monongreen stompy.

I jsut threw a list together, just mainly for conversation, to see if u can implement those two cards into the deck.

Just updated Clark Kant’s list, with land grant/Manamorphase (just to speed up casting battalion and the ability to untap the sentinal more often)

9 Forest
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Land Grant

4x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4x Skyshroud Elite
4x Talara’s Battalion
4x Jungle Lion
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Street Wraith
4x Manamorphose

4x Giant Growth
4x Briar Shield
4x Rancor
3x Berserk

Again, just a quick list, just to start conversation.

Valtrix
08-05-2008, 12:14 PM
Hmm. When I first saw talara's batallion, my first thought was for this deck. I think that anything less than 4 berserk's is the wrong choice for the deck, and with that said, I think the best focus is to use very cheap pump spells. I think the biggest probablem otherwise is that your creatures have no evasion and are going to die a lot. Part of this deck's strength, in my opinion, is the ability to win as fast as turn 2 if you get the right draw (Usually if you just get one berserk it'll be 3/4 though). Here's a quick list I put together:

// Lands
9 [10E] Forest (1)

// Creatures
3 [GP] Silhana Ledgewalker
4 [SC] Xantid Swarm
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [FNM] Quirion Ranger
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [EVE] Talara's Battalion

// Spells
4 [TSP] Might of Old Krosa
4 [AL] Bounty of the Hunt
4 [A] Berserk
4 [FNM] Rancor
4 [NE] Seal of Strength
4 [SHM] Manamorphose
4 [MM] Land Grant

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 4 [UD] Powder Keg

I think quirion ranger is an important inclusion. She can speed up your mana, as well as able to swing in for damage. I also like on turn three you can play her, return a forest, then get out batallion. Even turn 2 if you have a spirit guide.

I'm not liking manamorphose so much, but I really don't think the burn you'd take from this if you had nothing/little to play would matter much. More consistency + batallion makes it worth it in my opinion. Almost makes me want to splash something, like white, in the board. Maybe chant against combo or something.

I'm really liking Xantid swarm in here. It gives your creatures evasion, and makes your opponent worried about berserk-death. It also lets you play stuff later without such a great fear against counterspells. Same goes for silhana ledgewalker...Evasion + half-shroud seems really good.

Seal of strength is definitely better than giant growth, since it's giant growth on an enchantment, so you can use it better with berserk =) Also, makes goyf a little bigger.

What do you guys think of bounty of the hunt? On one hand it can help you win faster with berserk, but on the other you don't always want to give up cards, and I'm thinking maybe another creature would make more sense here. It might be "win more."

Not sure about a board...

Clark Kant
08-05-2008, 06:17 PM
I gave up on this deck a while back.

But my advise is, if you want to accomidate Talara's Battalion (and it is a good card probably worth accomidating) retweak the mana base.

As it is, the manabase is way too inconsistent to reliably support so many 2cc spells.

And unless you have a landgrant or manamorphose, it's effectively a 3cc spell, which is just unrealistic.

Another option is to play Kavu Predator.

Then you can play Invigorate for the synergy with Kavu Predator, Berserk and Talara's Battalion.

You can also splash white to play StP. StP also has great synergy with Predator and adds much needed versatility ot the deck. Otherwise, what will you do if your opponent has a big blocker (Goyf) that singlehandedly outshines all your other creatures and makes them unable to attack (Invigorate helps in such cases as well).

All this would take significant revision, and testing to the deck to be optimized imo. But it might be worth it.

Jak
08-05-2008, 07:08 PM
This deck is good, but the Land Grant version is just bad. You don't want to reveal your hand and show pump spells to the opponent. It goes against the strategy. I would run a list similar to the one that is in the 2 Man Tournament. It is 2-0 right now too.

Valtrix
08-06-2008, 12:52 AM
I don't think land grant is all that horrible, but there is no need to run land grant if you're not running bounty of the hunt/battalion. The drawback actually does somewhat hurt, but I don't think it will always make a difference. If somebody is playing you, chances are they'll know they have to play defensively, and they can respond to a lot of your pump spells with an instant anyway.

That said, it opens you up to counterspells, and I've actually not played this deck a whole ton, so I'm not at the best place to judge. Land grant is only 4 cards, and I don't think that taking it out would change the deck a ton anyway. Really, I'd just play it if you want to run battalion.

Curby
08-06-2008, 01:01 AM
Yes to all of the above, but you've got 16 2-drops and 9 lands. My current budget build has 4 and 10 respectively, so you might want to beware. Also, that's an absolute ton of pumpers. I realize that Berserk is best used with other Pumpers, but then you're caught in the problem of possibly only seeing 1 land per game, so how do you chain?

Honestly, I think it's enough to use 2 of Ledgewalker, Goyf, and Battalion. Battalion will not be as efficient as Goyf, and though Goyf doesn't trample, Berserk and Rancor do. So I'm saying ... use Goyf! (Though I'll likely go the Battalion route as it's cheaper).

SuckerPunch
08-06-2008, 11:20 AM
Why do people like Ledgewalker so much?

It's such a slow clock. You need Rancor on it to make it a threat, but Rancor works great on any of your other creatures because trample is similar to evasion in a lot of ways.

This deck does not like 2cc spells. Goyf is a 2cc 4/5 which is why it sees play. Ledgewalker is a 2cc 1/1. Just not worthwhile.

Tano
08-06-2008, 03:21 PM
Ledgewalker is sooo strong, cause it is immune to point removal and has evasion. I dont think that talaras batalion is needed in this deck, because you always try to attack on turn 2 in order to kill and you dont want to play a creature with cc2 and before that another green spell. Batalion is a bad top deck, too.
Furthermore i played 10 land green legacy deck on a lot of tournaments in germany and i tried several lists and here is my fastest list for a ten land green:

4 x skyshroud elite
4 x rogue elephant
3 x skarrgan pit skulks
4 x quirion ranger
4 x elvish spirit guide
4 x silhana ledgewalker
4 x kavu predator

4 x berserk
4 x rancor
4 x invigorate
4 x bounty of the hunt
3 x briar shield

4 x land grant
10 x forest

often a turn 2 kill and most of the games a turn 3 kill. thats all. :)