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Zappa
03-26-2008, 08:13 AM
The deck I am trying to build is a BW deck that revolves around smokestack, backed by pin point discard, as well as removal. The creatures works well to help smokestacks effect become a positive one. Currently this is how the deck looks like...

Lands:
4X Bloodstained Mire
1X Tainted Field
2X Swamp
4X Scrubland
4X Godless Shrine
1X Ancient Den
1x Vault of Whispers
4X Flagstones of Trokair

Lock Pieces:
3X Smokestack

Acceleration/Utility:
4X Dark Ritual
3X Enlightened Tutor
1X Seal of Cleansing

Creatures:
4X Hypnotic Specter
4X Dark Confidant
4X Epochrasite
4X Myr Retriever

Removal:
4X Swords to Plowshares

Discard:
4X Duress
4X Cabal Therapy


Side board (15)
4X Withered Wretch
4X True Believer
3X Extirpate
4X Warmth


Card choices:
Smokestack the heart of the deck. Making everyone (including you) sacrifice permanents.

Ancient Den
Vault of Whispers Artifact land, fetchable via Enlightened Tutor, recurrable (if needed) via Myr Retriever.

Flagstones of Trokair Food for Smokestack, helps trim the deck.

Dark Confidant This deck's drawing engine. He could always be sacrificed should life loss start becoming a problem. Can also help swing for damage.

Epochrasite Food for Smokestack, early chump blocker but comes back later on as a beater. Also works as food for Cabal Therapy.

Myr Retriever Chump blocker and food for either Smokestack or Cabal Therapy, can help bring back dead:
-Epochrasites
-Artifact Lands
-Other Myr Retrievers
-Smokestacks

Cabal Therapy Great Synergy with the artifact creatures. Helps gets rid of cards that may threaten Smokestack.

Enlightened Tutor Can fetch creatures, artifact lands (should mana be a problem), fetches for Smokestack, as well as the seal.

Seal of Cleansing Being ran as a silver bullet could always be tutored if needed.




Anyone have any advise, tips, or just have a different idea of card choices in mind please feel free to post them. There may have been other cards that I may have totally missed.

Things I'm curious about:

1) You think 3 smokestacks are fine? Should I bump the number to 4 considering the deck is built to abuse the card.

2) The ever question of Duress vs Thoughtseize. I decided to run Duress instead of thoughtseize since what I am worried more about are counterspells, disenchants/naturalize, Vindicates that may be aimed at smokestack, pernicious deeds, and card drawing/tutors by combo.
I am also worried that with the confidants (revealing smokestack at 4), Shocklands, fetchlands, that the life loss may really add up.

That is all my questions for now. Thanks for reading, again if you have some advice, tips or just different opinion(s) on what other cards to use or what not to use feel free to post them.

edgewalker
03-26-2008, 10:51 AM
Personally, I'd rather run more lock pieces, like chalice of the void or trinisphere. I understand you want this deck separate from stax decks, so I would only add one of the two so you're not completely dependent on them.

Second, I think vindicate would work wonders in this deck since it's essentially a "catch all" it is the mother of resource denial. (the only way they could make it better is if you could have them discard something)

Isamaru
03-26-2008, 12:53 PM
Isn't this supposed to have Braids in it?

-1 Seal of Cleansing +1 Oblivion Ring. Countertop made 3 stronger than 2... which is why Vindicate is good, as Edgewalker said.

Redlotus27
03-26-2008, 01:01 PM
I think the way to go is "permanent" control. Forget about discard, I would try more LD like sinkhole, Smallpox, Vindicate and wasteland. Braids sounds good on paper as Smokestacks 4-8 that can beat for 2. Removal package could look like smother, swords and even edict in a pinch. Tombstalker also could be on mop up duty after smokestack and braids have done thier damage.

xsockmonkeyx
03-26-2008, 03:40 PM
Isn't this supposed to have Braids in it?

Yes, she should be. She comes online a whole turn quicker and beats/chumps for 2.

I would like to see more land control elements like Sinkhole, Vindicate(ugh), Smallpox, and Wasteland. You can potentially shut opponents out of a game by attacking their removal color and dropping Braids.

Here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4858) is a thread to a similar list. You'll have to take what CJ says with a grain of salt though.

Zappa
03-26-2008, 05:57 PM
I guess oblivion ring instead of seal cleansing could be better, and would still be fetchable via Enlightened Tutor.

I was thinking about braids, but the thing is I see more decks in my area running more creature removal than they are artifact/enchantment removal. Swords to Plowshares, Condemn, Wrath of God, Damnation, Smother, Diabolic Edict, Chainer's Edict, Innocent Blood, Fire/Ice, Lightning bolt, and etc.
She will be harder to protect compared to Smokestack, since the deck also runs retrievers Smokestack can also be brought back. Aren't planewalkers also considered permanents? Granted that they are a rare sight, never do know what the future would bring. Considering legacy is always developing.
I also do like the fact that Enlightened Tutor can help get smokestack.

I sure would like small pox to be added in the deck, but the problem is, what do i take out? E.Tutors are needed since it can fetch for so many things, Duress works very will with theraphy, and therapy recieves nice synergy along with the artifact creatures. Ritual is pretty handy for some explosive starts as well as trying to force smokestack on turn 2.

Metaknight
03-26-2008, 06:45 PM
my 2 cents

-4 therapy
-1 Hyppie
-1 Retriever
-1 Site

+3 Braids
+4 Vindicate

logic behind this is braids is going to be better at your over all goal in the deck than the crits that are removed. Vindicate helps a lot too. Therapy is useful for hitting crits, but they're never going to be staying around long enough to do anything anyway. All you really need to worry about are non-crirt spells.

raharu
03-26-2008, 08:32 PM
-1 Tainted Field
-2 Godless Shrine

+2 Plains
+1 Swamp

Lets your deck run better under Blood Moon/ Back to Basics/ Wastelock.

That's it. Your maindeck is redeculiously tight. You can't change any of the slots really without drasticly altering the feel and playstyle of the deck.

Pulp_Fiction
03-28-2008, 02:37 AM
Honestly, I think a deck like this is better in theory than in practice. If you want to play B/W Horribly Screw Over Opponent.dec I think you best option is B/W Poxless Pox. It plays just like this but focuses heavily on mana denial. A list would be something along the lines of:

4x Vindicate
4x Ghostly Prison
4x Smallpox
4x Sinkhole
3x Rancid Earth
3x Crucible of Worlds
4x Dark Ritual/Hymn to Tourach/Duress
3x Tombstalker
2x Nether Spirit/Epochrasite
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Thoughtseize

4x Wasteland
1x Tabernacle
1x Ghost Quarter
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Scrubland
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Swamp
1x Plains

This is not a definitive list, just cards the deck would run. If you want to play Stax, Mono-White is generally the way to go. Armageddon Stax is one of the best variations of Smokestack and if this deck doesn't really gain any advantages or have better matchups or help consistency then why not just play the most solid version?