[Deck] Pirates! - Yay or Nay?

[Sobek]

Pirates is a Mono-Blue Tempo-based deck that thrives by denying your opponent Mana through use of bounce (Boomerang) and several of the Pirates from Masques block (Rishadan Cutpurse/Footpads/Brigands). The deck includes alittle mana acceleration to make sure you get off on the right foot, as well as a smattering of counterspells to provide support. Powerful, and synergistic artifacts such as Ankh of Mishra and Isocron Scepter round out the deck.

A Sample Decklist.

Pirates!
Creatures: 6
4x Rishadan Cutpurse
3x Rishadan Footpad
2x Rainbow Efreet

Artifacts: 7
4x Isochron Scepter
4x Ankh of Mishra

Spells: 27
4x Force of Will
4x Counterspell
4x Parallax Tide
4x Boomerang
4x Hoodwink
2x Back to Basics

Mana: 20
2x Chrome Mox
2x Ancient Tomb
16x Island

Sdieboard: 15
4x Chill
4x Hydroblast
3x Propaganda
3x Chalice of the Void
1x Back to Basics

A Pirateless Decklist by vigilante
14 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Chrome Mox

4 Brainstorm
4 Boomerang
4 Hoodwink
4 Parallax Tide
4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Isochron Scepter
4 Counterspell
4 Mana Leak
3 Stifle
1 Capsize

SB:
4 Hydroblast
3 Back to Basics
4 Propaganda
4 Chill

Going first with this deck is tremendous; being able to Hoodwink/Boomerange when your opponent is on one mana makes for a very nice start. Turn one Ancient Tomb -> Scepter with a Boomerang/Hoodwink is often a great play when going first, especially if you know your opponent is not running any cheap artifact .

Hydroblast, Chill, and Propaganda make the aggro matchup far, far easier that it would be otherwise. Some SBing strategies.
-2 Isochron Scepter
-2 Back to Basics (if Goblins or other mono-colored aggro)
-4 Counterspell
+4 Chill (if Goblins/Sligh)
+3/4 Propaganda
+4 Hydroblast (again, for goblins)
+3/4 Chalice of the Void (you have no one drops and a turn one Chalic for one off a Mox or Tomb can really screw with many aggro decks gameplan)

This deck is best in a predominantly Control/Combo meta as Aggro will most often be able to gain more tempo than you very quickly, but with the use of proper SBing, aggro matchups (and especially Affinity and Goblins) can become very favorable.

Ankh of Mishra is a key card; it does so much damage over the course of a game against most decks its insane. Fetchlands now cost 5 life to use; 7 if they are a Pickland, that isn't exactly something you want to be paying for. I have won several games off the back of just an Ankh, a Fetchland, three land drops then a Parralax Tide later...

Please, feel free to make any suggestions towards the improvment of these decks and by all means, post your own decklists.

[vigilante]

In terms of suggestions, perhaps you could consider the following list. I think it may take advantage of your not owning some of the notable cards you mention (ie. fetch lands).

Pirates Without Pirates:

14 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Chrome Mox

4 Brainstorm
4 Boomerang
4 Hoodwink
4 Parallax Tide
4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Isochron Scepter
4 Counterspell
4 Mana Leak
3 Stifle
1 Capsize

SB:
4 Hydroblast
3 Back to Basics
4 Propaganda
4 Chill


Purely an Ankh-Tide deck. As you mention, you run no fetches, so Ankh does not hit you twice for playing these lands. Running Ankh has horrible synergy with Meloku, however, so I've cut them. Ideally, the Mana Leaks would be Force of Will, but Leak will do. Having no Pirates in the deck makes your opponents' creature removal somewhat useless (I suppose you have Mishra's Factories, though).

I've always had a soft spot for this deck. It's so janky, setting up a silly soft lock with Tides and Boomerang/Scepter, and then it just up and kills your opponent with an Ankh or two. Crazy deck.

[Sobek]

I kind of like that, I think I will have to try it out. I had great success the other day against a few decks with just Back to Basics+Ankh of Mishra. That+Fetches and a couple beats from my pirates (or Factories in this case) and a Parrallax Tide sealed the game. Thanks for you ideas :)

[Reverend Damaged]

Honestly - pirates is rather unstable. I played a deck that looked almost just like this (mine ran green for birds), and it's very hard to win against a lot of the faster decks. The second list posted here looks a little more stable. Especially being able to stifle the tide, so your opponent doesn't get his lands back.

If you insist on playing pirates though - I'd definately run Green (for birds and ice storm), and run winter orb. Winter orb alone wrecks a large handful of decks. I'd consider it greatly, even if only in the board.

[Sobek]

Oh, I am not set on running pirates; I only put it up as an option for a deck that might work well in my Meta. If you have an idea as to what could work better by all means let me know.

[martyr]

What about Chalice of the Void? Shutting down 1cc spells doesn't hurt you at all, and if you upped your deck to 4x Ancient Tomb and 4x Chrome Mox, you could cast it relatively reliably for 1 counter on turn 1, which would likely shore up your Goblins matchup (looks to be a little bad, right now. Piledriver's pro-blue is gonna hurt.)

Fetches would help you a lot, even being mono-U, especially with Brainstorm, given how long your games are likely to go.

EDIT: Disrupt is awesome, btw. If many of the decks in your meta are U-based control, this could shine.

[Sobek]

I have the chalices in the board but they may be worth MDing.

I am not running Fetchlands because I dont have them as well as since I am not running them I can run Ankh and screw with other people who do use them. 5 life to get a land is not fun.

[Sobek]

I dont want to spam but I am making a new post for two reasons;
Firstly, Aggro has been giving me fits. I have to spend all my resources to keep them from laying a threat but if they manage to get an early one on the table I am . Propaganda in the board could work nicely as it has alot of synergy with our Mana Denial Theme.

Secondly; at the request of GodZilla I am going to open the thread up to any discussion on Pirates! whether it be budget or with 8x Fetchlands and foWs. Post your Pirates build and any comments on the Archetype.

[Duby]

@sobek: Have you been testing against other top decks in the current legacy meta such as wombat(mono w control), goblins, mbc, etc? Or is this deck more meant for using in a random meta game where anything might show up and smash your face? Also which deck seems to work best in a certain meta, like the creature-less one for a control meta and the creature one for a aggro meta? All in all i'm really looking forward to playing pirates when i can get teh cards i still need, but until then I'm just posing these questions to see what your take on them is.

[Sobek]

I have not tested extensivley against Wombat and Goblins and such; I would like to and I think I will one day but not yet.

I have found for heavy control metas the creatureless version is better; Ankh=Game if they cant deal with it and this decks strategy is a perfect foil for mana intense Control decks.

The Creature one gives you alot more game against aggro (its still a pretty bad matchup) as they are the ones most likely to tap out on their turns and even have something worth saccing, plus Footpads and Cutpurses actually take out quite a few different creatures.

In all honesty this deck is made mostly for a very control heavy environment; its really hurts for a control deck to lay down a land, take two, then get boomeranged/hoodwinked before they can even use the mana. It can beat aggro, especially after SBing, but I certainly wouldn't run it in a Meta with alot of aggro.

Edit: There is also not a whole lot of room MD with cards that are /not as useful in certain matchups witch makes it good for the deck if you have to face alot of decks that dont require tremendous SB. Likewise, against alot of the top-tier control decks it might be wise to try and mulligan into an Ankh+Moxen/Tomb, if you really have an intense, all control meta, upping the count of tombs and moxen could be a good idea.

[vigilante]

We had a guy show up a few weeks back playing a deck similar to the pirate-less build I posted earlier on. Differences included: no Brainstorms, no Stifles and no Capsize; instead he opted to replace these with, if memory serves, 4 Propaganda and 4 Sun Droplet. He also ran Force of Will over Mana Leak (an obvious change, if you have the Forces). At the time, I was playing a Dryad-Burn deck almost identical to Xenoq's BA2 list (I ran Ball Lightning instead of Lava Dart). Those Propagandas and Sun Droplets gave me fits, buying him just enough time to get either a Tide active (slowing me to a crawl and letting him recoup life with Sun Droplet), or a Tide with an Ankh, which pretty much spells good-game against RG Burn (which typically runs 8 fetch-lands).

Now, I certainly don't like to condone running Sun Droplet (or Propaganda main-deck, either), but in this sort of deck, things like the Droplet probably do deserve consideration because, as various people have rightly pointed out, this archetype will have fits against Aggro and Aggro-Control (read here: Burn, R/x Burn, RGSA, Affinity, and Madness). You need to buy time to set up against these decks, and as much as it pains me to admit it, Sun Droplet does that.

As an added bonus, it helps offset the damage you take from your own Ankhs. Hoorah!

[Sobek]

Definatley a consideration; obviously if you have a heavy Aggro meta then MDing Droplets and such is a good choice. When you think about it its really the only way aside from Propaganda you have ot stem the aggro tide; that or Engineered es, but F etches+Ankh=nono

[hacksign]

I am a little confused, what should I run? The one with pirates or the one without?

[Sobek]

With Pirates for Aggro matchups (but if you have an aggro meta, consider not running this or just heavily modifying the MD) and Pirateless one for Control metas.

[vigilante]

Definately with Sobek on this one, hacksign. Against Control, your opponent just sits there with mana open and either 1) counters you Pirates, or 2) pays the mana to prevent the Pirates' comes into play ability, then removes your Pirate somehow (Wrath, Swords, bounce etc etc.) Ergo, the version with creatures is sub-optimal. Against Aggro, however, your opponent taps out playing creatures, leaving them vulnerable to your Pirates' comes into play abilities, and the Pirates themselves serve as blockers while you set up your win condition/s.

[Evil Roopey]

I know that there is an existing Pirates thread, but my list varied from both of there list a great deal and thought it might warrant it's own thread.


//Pirates
// Lands
4 Rishadan Port
5 Island
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta

// Creatures
4 Rishadan Footpad
4 Rishadan Cutpurse
4 Sea Drake

// Spells
3 Stifle
3 Winter Orb
3 Boomerang
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seal of Removal
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Hoodwink
2 Parallax Tide

//Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Submerge
4 Propaganda
4 Chill


This is the list that I have been working on for a little while. The list is just plain annoying. I don't even want to count the amount of times people gave me the <System> Player Lost because of this deck. The list is very consistant at what it does.

A couple of cards to explain.

Stifle: Just to increase the amount of LD you have. It also has great synergy with Parallax Tide and is just an all around good card in this format.

Sea Drake: I was already running W.Orb and while I was trying to think of a good kill condition I just happened to think about Alix's little tech in Sea Drake. The card is so absolutley amazing that I upped the count to four, although I might go back down to three to fit in the third Tide.

Winter Orb/Sea Drake VS. Ankh of Mishra: To be honest I haven't tested Ankh, but I WOrb and the Drake have been absolutely amazing.

My sideboard is aimed directly at the Tier 1. I already stomp all over Solidarity and Landstill, so Goblins, Gro, and RGSA is all I have left. Gro and RGSA conveniently have the same SB cards and Goblins gets Chill to continue on the mana denial route.

Roop

[Alfred]

With all the mana denial in there, I would highly suggest running Propaganda somewhere in the Main or in the board, because it can seriously slow down and stop goblin decks, as well as other jank aggro. Winter Orb + Propaganda is a SAVAGE combination against aggro.

[Evil Roopey]

After testing the Goblin match-up with Alfred, I realized that it was absolulety horrible. This is what my new list looks like. The goblin match-up probably only slightly improved, I am still working all the kinks out.

//Pirates
// Lands
4 Rishadan Port
5 Island
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
1 Plains

// Creatures
3 Rishadan Footpad
4 Rishadan Cutpurse
4 Sea Drake

// Spells
3 Winter Orb
3 Boomerang
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seal of Removal
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Hoodwink
2 Parallax Tide
3 Propaganda

//Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Submerge
4 Flash Flood
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Propaganda
1 Winter Orb

[Alfred]

I was actually thinking about this as soon as you left the game, but CoP: Red is probably a better idea than Ghostly Prison. If you manage to get Propaganda down, then you will only have to face 1-3 goblins at a time, meaning that CoP: R won't be stretched to the limit. I was thinking about Sphere of Law, but CoP: Red comes down earlier and prevents a lot more damage, and also, unlike Ghostly Prison, it can stop Goblins from pinging you with their doods. I would take out the Prisons from the SB and the last Winter Orb and add 3 CoP: Reds.

This should at least give you a fighting chance games 2-3.

[Zilla]

Pirates topics merged. -Zilla

[Alfred]

I've given another swing with Pirates, and I think I've finally found out what the big problem is: bounce. Bounce really, really sucks. Boomerang and Hoodwink can set you up for a Pirate's CIP ability, but they are such terrible topdecks that I don't understand how they could possibly be good, also most of the time Winter Orb will allow you to use the Pirates anyway. I've playtested the deck many times, and found those cards to be terrible in this metagame.

I think with the upsurgance in threshold decks that Pirates has a good chance of doing better competitavely, because it's a great matchup for the deck. Also, Parallax Tide blows, and Vedalken Shackles is pimp. Here is my newest list:

Mana (23):
6x Island
4x Wasteland
4x Flooded Strand
4x Rishadan Port
4x Chrome Mox
1x Tundra

Dudes (11):
4x Rishadan Cutpurse
3x Rishadan Footpad
4x Sea Drake

Other Spells (26):
4x Winter Orb
4x Propaganda
4x Brainstorm
3x Vedalken Shackles
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
3x Thirst for Knowledge

Sideboard (15):
4x Circle of Protection: Red
3x Submerge
2x Crucible of Worlds
3x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Ninja of the Deep Hours

Circle of Protection: Red is essentially an Anti-Goblins card, and if you manage to get Propaganda in place, it is the final peice of the puzzle that neuters their deck. It may appear that there aren't enough islands to support Shackles, but with 11 it has been working fine for me.

Here is my SB strategy for Goblins:
-3 Thirst for Knowledge
-4 Daze
+4 Circle of Protection: Red
+3 Umezawa's Jitte

Threshold:
-3 Vedalken Shackles
-1 Island
-1 Winter Orb
+3 Submerge
+2 Crucible of Worlds

Control Matchups (obviously changes from deck to deck, but generally):
-4 Propaganda
-3 Vedalken Shackles
-1 Island
+3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
+3 Umezawa's Jitte
+2 Crucible of Worlds

I think the deck is MUCH improved, basically because I took out all of the bad cards and added cards that actually do constructive things once and a while.

[Lego]

Aww, removing Bounce is sad, because they you can't play Land, Mox, Scepter, Boomerang and just win on the first turn :(

It fundamentally changes the game plan of the deck, but it may be the way to go. A few questions for you Alfred. Do you ever find your Vedalken Shackles not being big enough with 11 islands? Do the Pirates hit anything often enough, seeing as your opponents need to be tapped out? How are you finding Thirst for Knowledge to be? Usually pitching two? How often do you get that extra mox, and how oten are you willing to pitch a Winter Orb or Vedalken Shackles? Seems like there are better instant speed card drawing options out there.

[Alfred]

I'm actually going to be replacing Rishadan Footpad with Spiketail Hatchling, because Hatchling works much better with Winter Orb. Hatchling also is more relevant earlier on, and when Orb is down, people will just sacrifice a tapped land, which makes very little difference, wheras Hatchling makes important spells they want to cast cost more. Cutpurse is still effective as a Stone Rain/Creature, stunting early development.

Also, after experimenting with Thirst for Knowledge, it is simply too expensive for the deck to run consistantly. I've replaced them with Pithing Needles to complement the soft lock that the deck employs. They mesh well with the land hate, especially when naming a fetchland, also, they stop manlands, Lavamancer and Pernicious Deed and other stuff that could potentially ruin your day. They are also dirt cheap, which is a must in this deck. What I like about this deck is the ability to make Daze an effective counterspell throughout the whole game.

I'm going to try out Old Man of the Sea as a replacement for Shackles, because it can block and attack, and grab most important creatures in the format. I'll fool around with this list, but I'm liking it because it's a fish-like deck that abuses a soft lock that works against both control and aggro.

I'm also trying out Sphere of Resistance in the sideboard against control.

[Bane of the Living]

@LAM On the other hand there really isnt. TFK is an amazing draw spell. 3 mana for 3 cards, instant speed, gets rid of mid game moxen, and shackles against the wrong matchups. Also pitches extra orbs.

Your build looks really good except for the island count. You only have 6, 7 counting tundra. If you see a boil you may not recover from it. You might not be able to take enforcers and werebears either.

Do you think a couple ancient tombs would help? It gives you turn 2 pirates, propagandas, and shackles. it also helps cheat with orb in play.

[Alfred]

Scratch the whole Old Man of the Sea idea, it's terrible. It's almost strictly worse than Shackles, and can't get one of the most problematic cards for this deck: Piledriver.

Also, with only a few creatures to support it, I'm going to replace Ninja with Pithing Needles in the board and put some Chalices maindeck, to help out against threshold and decks that end with burn. Sure it turns off Brainstorm, but as the only 1cc card in the deck, and Chalice's ability to be set at multiple different levels makes it a good maindeck inclusion.

Also, Submerge sucks. It doesn't exactly suck, but Hibernation deals with ALL of threshold's creatures at once, and can actually deal with Nimble Mongoose. With the Orb/Port/Mox lock going, or a resolved Chalice set to 1 or 2, it is a much more potent answer than Submerge. It's also good against random elf decks or other dumb garbage that I don't even want to think about.

Here's the new list:

Mana (23):
6x Island
4x Wasteland
4x Flooded Strand
4x Rishadan Port
4x Chrome Mox
1x Tundra

Dudes (12):
4x Rishadan Cutpurse
4x Spiketail Hatchling
4x Sea Drake

Other Spells (25):
4x Winter Orb
4x Propaganda
4x Brainstorm
2x Vedalken Shackles
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
3x Chalice of the Void

Sideboard (15):
4x Circle of Protection: Red
3x Hibernation
2x Crucible of Worlds
3x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Pithing Needle

I think this could actually be a GOOD DECK! OMG ladies and gentlement, it's a fish-like deck that has a game against aggro, and is pretty consistantly good against control and threshold! It also probably assrapes combo! It has a fast, evasive clock that works well with the lock peices, and has 8 solid counterspells, 12 if you count Hatchling.

[dahcmai]

What's amusing is there is a card called Piracy which actually falls within the theme of mana denial to allow one of the cutpurses or footpads to do some damage guaranteed.

[Lego]

Piracy doesn't do anything to stop cutpurse, considering that they can tap a couple lands in response, and the mana you get can only be used to play spells. There's really no application for this card.

[Ebinsugewa]

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't AEther Vial be amazing? It allows you a bit more utility with the 187 abilities, especially Spiketail Hatchling. I was looking to play around with Pirates, and I'm glad I found this thread.

[Lego]

I don't think you run enough creatures to justify Aether Vial. But I always wanted to run Aether Vial, Sea Drake, and Mishra's Factor, if you know what I mean :wink:

[Amoeba-]

This deck, janky as it may seem is quite effective when utilizing the combination of Ankh of Mishra and Parallax Tide.

//Deck: Pirates

//Creatures: 10

4 Rishadan Footpad
4 Rishadan Cutpurse
2 Gilded Drake
2 Ninja of the Deep Hours

//Spells: 29

4 Parallax Tide
4 Hoodwink
4 Stifle
4 Boomerang
3 Chrome Mox
3 Ankh of Mishra
3 Exhaustion
4 Seal of Removal

//Lands: 19

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
11 Island

//Sideboard: 15

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Gilded Drake
3 Propaganda
2 Arcane Laboratory


Card Choices:

1. Chrome Mox: Acceleration

2. Ankh of Mishra: Awesome tech against fetchlands, and with Parallax Tide

3. Gilded Drake: The old swicheroo, very good late game.

4. Ninja of the Deep Hours: Returns Cutpurse and Footpad to hand for additional "come into play affects" and cardraw.

5. Rishadan Footpad: With all the tapping of the early game it is quite helpful.

6. Rishadan Cutpurse: Same as above.

7. Parallax Tide: Of course is kick-ass with Ankh in play, and can remove mana sources before playing a Cutpurse or Footpad.

8. Boomerang: Simple bounce. Can be used on Parallax Tide to replace Fade counters.

9. Hoodwink: Same as above. But cannot be used on creatures.

10. Stifle: Against any fetchlands, or miscellaneous use.

11. Exhaustion: If an opponent taps to pay for Cutpurse of Footpad, then this is handy for a turn delay, whether its aggro or control.

12. Island:...

13. Rishadan Port: duh...

14. Wasteland: Legacy staple.

Sideboard:

1. Pithing Needle: Very versatile. Use when needed.

2. Sword of Fire and Ice: Add an additional clock to opponent

3. Umezawa's Jitte: Good for the aggro matchup.

4. Propaganda: same as above.

5. Tormod's Crypt: Threshold, 43Land.dec, Reanimator, Friggorid, IGGy-Pop, wherever.

6. Gilded Drake: see maindeck.

7. Arcane Laboratory: Any Tier 1 combo deck in Legacy uses multiple spells in one turn.



When this deck gets going it is very difficult to stop, however the draws seem to be rather inconsistent. I've only tested it on MWS, but have not faced any Tier 1 decks yet. So I really cannot give a matchup report. Sorry.

Post any improvement you may think is necessary. Thanks.

Amoeba-

[Koby]

I found the long lost Pirate booty.

[sco0ter]

I found the long lost Pirate booty.

Ah, good to know that the Rishadan Footpad/Rishadan Cutpurse/Parallax Tide + Bounce is NO new innovation, like some people want make us believe in the Pirate Stompy (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32010-Pirate-Stompy) thread.

[MGB]

I found the long lost Pirate booty.

Arrrr.