[Deck] Loam-A-Tog, with or without Tog

[BreathWeapon]

Loam-A-Tog is an Intuition/Life from the Loam based control deck that utilizes the strongest control and/or aggro-control cards in the format in order to dominate each stage of the game. It's disruption is used to prevent turn one losses on the draw with Force of Will or with Thought Seize on the play, and then clear a path for a Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top lock. It's removal consists of Smother, Pernicious Deed, Shriekmaw and Engineered Explosives, with Smother and Pernicious Deed controlling the opponent's early/mid game threats and Shriekmaw and Engineered Explosives recursion keeping the game under wraps. It's win conditions either assist in establish board control by achieving Tarmogoyf parody or "The Abyss," while being "Oops, I win" threats with Wonder in the graveyard.

Intuition, Life from the Loam, Sensei's Divining Top and Brainstorm are the heart and sole of the deck, Intuition provides Loam-A-Tog with its main source of tutoring, card advantage and Tog food. Intuition can either tutor for triplicates of Force of Will, Counterbalance or Pernicious Deed when necessary, while establishing the Life from the Loam engine with Cephalid Coliseum, Academy Ruins or Volrath's Stronghold. Common Intuition piles include,

Life from the Loam, Volrath's Stronghold and Shriekmaw
Life from the Loam, Academy Ruins and Engineered Explosives
Life from the Loam, Cephalid Coliseum and Wonder

as well as several other situational piles.

Combined with Sensei's Divining Top, Life from the Loam can either discard the top 3 cards of your deck or recur a fetchland to maximize your card selection, while Sensei's Divining Top protects Life from the Loam from Tormod's Crypt.



MD

4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
4 Thought Seize

4 Intuition
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm

4 Smother
1 Shriekmaw

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Engineered Explosives

1 Life from the Loam

4 Tarmogoyf
2 Psychatog
1 Wonder

4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Academy Ruins
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Cabal Pit

For the most part, Loam-A-Tog is a convergeance of "The Fear" and "TarmoTog", with Loam-A-Tog using the more controlling Counterbalance and Sensei's Divining Top elements of "The Fear" inconjunction with "TarmoTog's" use of Thought Seize, Psychatog and Wonder. With a small manabase utilizing all of the card advantage and recursion lands and Cabal Pit for recurring Goblin removal and Tarmogoyf supremecy, Loam-A-Tog is a happy medium between the two decks.

Match Ups

Dredge: Unfavorable, but Dredge is designed to give Control and Aggro-Control fits, so it should be no surprise. At best Loam-A-Tog can SB in Extirpate and Tormod's Crypt and hope to stall Dredge long enough to implement a Tormod's Crypt lock. Post board the match up is as favorable as you dedicate SB space beyond Extirpate and Tormod's Crypt, the most notable option being Yixlid Jailor to lock them out of the game and establish a clock.

Storm: Favorable, the combination of Force of Will, Thought Seize and Counterbalance is an effective trifecta against Storm combo.

Goblins: Unfavorable, Loam-A-Tog can have a difficult time removing Goblin Lackey on the draw, and it's top heavy nine 3cc cards and 19 land mana base can get into trouble with Wasteland and Rishadan Port. You can dedicate SB space to Engineered Plague, with double Engineered Plague being remarkably easy to set up with Intuition.

Landstill: Favorable, you overwhelm Landstill with card advantage, recursion, Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top and either a significant multi-turn clock or a one-turn upper cut.

Dragon Stompy: Unfavorable, 4 Trinisphere, 4 Chalice of the Void and 8 Blood Moon are a pain in the ass, and you're removal can't reach the cc of most of their clocks. Fetching an Island and Blue Elemental Blast is about the best you can really hope for, be prepared to pull your hair out.

Threshold: Favorable, unless Threshold manages to get off to a great start, you should overwhelm them easily.

While I'm still not positive the mana base is large enough, and in light of that Engineered Explosives and Shriekmaw may have to be moved to the SB in favor of Swamp and Wasteland, I think Loam-A-Tog has a lot of potential.

I'll expand on the opening post more in depth later if there's any interest.

[BreathWeapon]

For one, "The Fear" isn't a new or an original deck, and neither is Loam-A-Tog. I'm not trying to steal any one's credit for "their" deck, nor am I claiming credit for designing Loam-A-Tog. The Loam-A-Tog thread was created in order to avoid comparisons between "The Fear," "TarmoTog" and Loam-A-Tog in their respective threads, because Bardo, Gos(wtf the rest of his name is) and Hanni already derailed "The Fear" thread with their comparisons between "The Fear," "Vorosh Control" and "TarmoTog," and I didn't want to exacerbate the problem.

Loam-A-Tog is/was already an established archetype, and while the differences between Loam-A-Tog and those other decks are minute, they're by no means trivial.

[xsockmonkeyx]

For one, "The Fear" isn't a new or an original deck, and neither is Loam-A-Tog. I'm not trying to steal any one's credit for "their" deck, nor am I claiming credit for designing Loam-A-Tog. The Loam-A-Tog thread was created in order to avoid comparisons between "The Fear," "TarmoTog" and Loam-A-Tog in their respective threads, because Bardo, Gos(wtf the rest of his name is) and Hanni already derailed "The Fear" thread with their comparisons between "The Fear," "Vorosh Control" and "TarmoTog," and I didn't want to exacerbate the problem.

QFMFT. That thread has too many e-peens flying around for a decent discussion to develop without someone getting butthurt about authorship. I have some questions for deep6er about the deck but Im probably going to resort to PM as the thread is cancer.

As to who actually came up with Counterbalance/Deed/Goyf-plus-draw-engine.dec, the correct answer is 'who cares?'.

[chokin]

Well, if it's here to stay then, -1 SDT for something else. 3 is plenty with Inuition. Maybe Eternal Witness. I love that card in decks with Pernicious Deeds and Volrath's Stronghold. Works nicely for recurring [insert noncreature] and [insert nonland].

Or maybe use that extra slot for another EE or Shackles.

[BreathWeapon]

The manabase is too brittle to cut a Top, I'm considering replacing Shriekmaw with a Swamp to increase the number of lands and protect the manabase from Wasteland after I resolve Thoughtseize as it is. Multiple Tops isn't a real concern, Life from the Loam can just Dredge them into the graveyard if need be.

Vedalken Shackles could be a reasonable SB card tho', Academy Ruins is underutilized at the moment.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

QFMFT. That thread has too many e-peens flying around for a decent discussion to develop without someone getting butthurt about authorship. I have some questions for deep6er about the deck but Im probably going to resort to PM as the thread is cancer.





For the record, I (and I think the same applies to Hanni) never went into that thread trying to turn it into my deck. My questions were legitimately motivated by a similar design (and from failed experiments that closely resembled TF), but the barrage of snide remarks, insults, and poorly constructed arguments drove me away--along with, I think, any potential for real discussion. I just couldn't be bothered to reply, since I know exactly what it would lead to. The problem isn't that they're kicking out different decklists; it's that they're ridiculing questions (not even statements) based on parallel experiences rather than considering them and answering them carefully, thus effectively kicking out discussion points.


In any case, I'm glad to see what you've posted, BreathWeapon. The list above does away with my major concerns about TF (most notably, splashing a fourth colour for removal when adequate substitutes exist).


At first, I was leery of Cabal Pit, but now that I think about it, I think it fits in better as recurrable removal than Shriekmaw--partly because it's less mana intensive, and partly because it's easier to set up with Intuition. The downside, of course, is that graveyard hate will screw it over, and that it can't hit anything that Smother can't deal with (although I suppose it might save you from Smothering weenies). If you do cut Shriekmaw, I'd at least consider some form of sideboard option against the stuff that can't be dealt with by your existing removal

I do agree with cutting a SDT for a land, since I think that's a better use of the space. Also--and I'm prepared to be lambasted for this--I wonder if you could get away with cutting one or two fetchlands (one from each?) in favour of real, mana-producing lands (or a second Loam)?

[BreathWeapon]

I didn't think the derailment was intentional, posting in "The Fear" thread just seemed like a waste of time.

As it stands, I'm fine with the number of Fetchlands and Sensei's Divining Tops, I'd rather err on the side of shuffle effects and card selection than add dual #4 or a superflous business spell.

Cabal Pit is awesome, it establishes a board lock against Goblins, Dark Confidants and Meddling Mages and wins the Tarmogoyf vs Tarmogoyf stalemates. Altho' the removal package can't destroy Tombstalker, Mystic Enforcer dies to Pernicious Deed, it doesn't really matter, because you can just match their Tombstalker with flying Tarmogoyfs.

Wonder is essentially a removal spell.

[mackaber]

So did the original thread get deleted? WTF?

In any case my testing showed that 3 tops weren't enough, especially when considering the occasions on which I had only a blank counterbalance, so I'd stick with top number 4 and actually cut a counterbalance for land number 4.

[BreathWeapon]

So did the original thread get deleted? WTF?

In any case my testing showed that 3 tops weren't enough, especially when considering the occasions on which I had only a blank counterbalance, so I'd stick with top number 4 and actually cut a counterbalance for land number 4.

No, a moderator changed the name, altho' I have no clue why they changed it, because playing without Psychatog isn't really an option *shrug.*

If you add a Swamp, you subtract a Shriekmaw, you can't remove a Counterbalance when the U count is 19. You don't want to be the one using 3 Counterbalance instead of 4 Counterbalance in the control mirrors, if you have multiple Counterbalances you win any way.

[mackaber]

You don't want to be the one using 3 Counterbalance instead of 4 Counterbalance in the control mirrors, if you have multiple Counterbalances you win any way.

I kind of disagree here. You need Balance and top to win the game. Having only Balance gives you a random shot at winning the game by countering key spells but no too much more. Top is always awesome so before running 4 CB 3 Tops I'd rather go 3 Balance and 4 top. This dec also has 4 MD removal spells for Balance makng it not auto lose to CB on the oposing side. But none the less I think a 4/4 split is probably optimal.

EDIT: Also your running only 16 blue sources which to me seems to be the absolute minimum for running CB as a four-of.

[xsockmonkeyx]

I didn't think the derailment was intentional, posting in "The Fear" thread just seemed like a waste of time.

Lemme make this clear: I don't think anyone had bad intentions going in (in fact I think Goaswerfraiejen made a pretty honest effort), but the discussion turned out fail. Check your egos at the door, people.

[BreathWeapon]

I kind of disagree here. You need Balance and top to win the game. Having only Balance gives you a random shot at winning the game by countering key spells but no too much more. Top is always awesome so before running 4 CB 3 Tops I'd rather go 3 Balance and 4 top. This dec also has 4 MD removal spells for Balance makng it not auto lose to CB on the oposing side. But none the less I think a 4/4 split is probably optimal.

EDIT: Also your running only 16 blue sources which to me seems to be the absolute minimum for running CB as a four-of.

4 Force of Will, 4 Intuition, 4 Counterbalance, 4 Brainstorm, 2 Psychatog and 1 Wonder is 19 blue sources.

Your argument is reasonable, but let me counter it with "can you name a blue card you'd rather play with in place of Counterbalance #4?" I can't think of anything other than Psychatog #3, and that's really unnecessary.

[Syco_Tr0pic]

For a long time I've been testing and running a list just like this, just some cards off, and, if you take functionality into account even less:

3 Mox Diamond
1 Engineered Exposives
4 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Tarmogoyf
2 Psychatog

4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
2 Life from the Loam
4 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares

3 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Cabal Pit
1 Academy Ruins
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Island

The main difference is that I use Pernicious Deed as a sideboard card, maindecking 3 Mox Diamond (a page I took from the time when I played UberMadness - r.i.p.). It's sick to resolve turn 1 Counterbalance or Goyf, and turn 2 Intuition is just the stone cold nuts. They're not dead in the late game either. With active Loam you can drop'em safely.
They help with a major flaw in the deck, namely the shaky manabase and it's weakness to disruption like Wasteland. Before running the Moxen I'd curse every game where a Turn 3 Intuition became a Turn 4 Intuition and I'd loose because of the lost tempo. The manabase becomes very resilient once Loam is active, but before that we are just as fragile as Threshold, the Moxen help us to stabilize against LD and to get to the 3 mana threshold we need to start dropping bombs. For that matter that's why I like to use a second Loam, too.
I've been using STP in the removal slot mainly because of Tombstalker (Mishra's Factory too, but not as much), he's such a bitch to play against with common black removal or board control methods. Suddenly your Ghastly Demise/Smother/EE/Deed are looking back at you from your hand "Sorry, dude, if only that was a Goyf". Needless to say, running STP became possible after I adopted Mox Diamond.
Hope nothing here sounds ridiculous to anyone. All my comments come from personal experience with various incarnations of this archtype, and I really want to help developing an optimal list. Keep the good work, guys.

[mackaber]

4 Force of Will, 4 Intuition, 4 Counterbalance, 4 Brainstorm, 2 Psychatog and 1 Wonder is 19 blue sources.

Your argument is reasonable, but let me counter it with "can you name a blue card you'd rather play with in place of Counterbalance #4?" I can't think of anything other than Psychatog #3, and that's really unnecessary.

I think we have a slight misunderstanding here. With sources I am referring to mana sources. While you are referring to spells. Wasn't the agreed upon minimum of potential pitch spell for FoW 17 at some point?

@psycho tropic: Could you provide us with a sideboard for your list? Also do you board out the moxen when you board in deeds? I like your list and have been testing something very similar but Mox has been underwhelming for me mainly since I've been unable to get decent mana draws. Is 20 lands 3 moxen sufficient in your experience?

[BreathWeapon]

Ah, I apologize, 16 U mana sources has been sufficient, I'm use to 15 U mana sources for Mana Drain from Vintage Mana Bases so I'm comfortable with that number in Legacy Mana Bases.

@Syco,

Its an interesting list, but there aren't enough 2cc cards for Counterbalance. If you're going to use Mox Diamond and Swords to Plowshares, I think you have to use Counterspell instead of Thought Seize to up the 2cc count.

[Syco_Tr0pic]

@ Breathwepaon: You may be right. Funny thing is how this deck starts to look like Extended Next Level Blue when you put Counterspells on the list. I must tell you that between Top + fetches / Brainstorm + Dredge tricks I don't have many difficulties in countering a 2cc spell with CB, and I really like how Thoughtseize is a demolishing play by itself (preemptive counterspell plus info is good), even more against Storm based strategies. But, then again, you may be right, and Counterspell is worth the test.

@ mackaber: 20 lands + 3 Moxen have been enough for me, mostly because you just want Mox to push you out of Wasteland oppression and to reach the 3 mana threshold. For that matter you need precisely 3 lands. The same you would want if you didn't run Mox in the first place. And most of the time you just get the land you invested to drop the Mox back with LFTL.
As for a sideboard, it depends a lot on the expected meta (obvious, of course, let me try not to state the obvious in such an obviously obvious manner in the future). The only cards I feel belong in the sideboard without a question are:
3 Pernicious Deed
2-3 Krosan Grip
3 Extirpate
Deed and Grip play a great hole against so many things, they are almost universal answers: Threshold, Stax, Dragon Stompy, Enchantress.
Funny how I'd SB out the Moxen for Deeds without a blink against Thresh, Enchantress, and even White Stax but I'd think twice before SBing the moxen out against Dragon Stompy due to their moon effects. If you Deed their board, doesn't really matter the lack of synergy between Mox and Deed, you just did what you had to do (I mean win).
I'm a big fan of the 3 Extirpate in the SB: it's versatile, it deals with Loam, wrecks storm combo when well placed, weakens control packages good, serves well against Ichorid (course it won't beat Dredge all by itself, but it's a great step in the way), good times all around.
The other 6-7 cards are in the air: you can use 1-2 EE more if you expect Goblin or Zombie tokens in the early stages of the game, it's good against CB and Goose too.
Engineered Plague is a strong candidate if Gobins try a come back.
If Ichorid is common, 3 Crypts in addition to the Extirpates are kind of a must.
If control is too prevalent Gigapede can be an option.
Pithing Needle can always be considered.
Well, that's it. I could never set this deck's SB in stone cause there are so many options and so much room for adaptation and customization. Hope this was somehow useful.
If I overlooked something, if any of you guys disagree or even if my takes are just plain wrong, point it out. I don't wanna be right, I want this deck to be good. Once again, keep the good work, guys.

[Mental]

I have a question:

What does Psychatog add to this deck?
It costs 1BU and is a 1/2, that needs you to give up card advantage or create disynergy with goyf to be powerful. Just taking out 1 opposing Goyf with 'Tog usually generates massive card disadvantage for you. It seems like a card that's only good with your engine online.
Would Nimble Mongoose be a better option?

[BreathWeapon]

I have a question:

What does Psychatog add to this deck?
It costs 1BU and is a 1/2, that needs you to give up card advantage or create disynergy with goyf to be powerful. Just taking out 1 opposing Goyf with 'Tog usually generates massive card disadvantage for you. It seems like a card that's only good with your engine online.
Would Nimble Mongoose be a better option?

Being able to end the game in a single turn lets Loam-A-Tog turn into a dedicated combo-control. Essentially it turns Intuition into a secondary win condition for the deck.

Nimble Mongoose really sucks, I think Warren Weirding completely invalidated the card. I'd be tempted to try something a little more beefy, possibly Terravore if I could find a way to increase the U count.

[Mental]

Being able to end the game in a single turn lets Loam-A-Tog turn into a dedicated combo-control. Essentially it turns Intuition into a secondary win condition for the deck.

Nimble Mongoose really sucks, I think Warren Weirding completely invalidated the card. I'd be tempted to try something a little more beefy, possibly Terravore if I could find a way to increase the U count.


Hah, Weirdings doesn't invalidate Goose at all. It's still good against Control and a lot of other stuff, and it's still decent against Goblins. But Vore might be better, I'd agree.

Tog doesn't end the game in one turn. You play it, and the next turn it ends the game. That's like winning off Doomsday the turn after you play it. Not too good...especially when it can be blocked.
My reasoning is:
When you play Tog - the board is essentially clear. You have your engine online/the game is locked down.
Don't you win anyways?

[mackaber]

Wonder makes Tog better in this list but he's still by far the shittiest spell in the dec (funny to say that about a guy that only 2 years ago was considered the best creature ever printed). I'm playing 1 cause he can be pitched to force and he can win the game when people extirpate goyfs post SB, but that's really it. Hmm actually I might really replace him with enforcer if I try to play moxen and 4 colors...

[BreathWeapon]

Nimble Mongoose's main purpose is/was to prevent a Goblin Lackey from connecting, but Warren Weirding eliminated that appeal, and it's 3/3 shroud is nothing compared to Gigapede's 6/1 tutorable, uncounterable shroud against control.

Psychatog is just a necessary evil, IMO, he's U for Force of Will, he's 3cc for Counterbalance and he's a redundant threat for Extirpate. If you really can't stand him, you could try MDing Gigapede and Eternal Witness, but 17 U is a low count for FoW.