Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Yeah I started 5-0 in the tram open this past weekend with Imperial but we ended up 6-5 and dropping after that. Paired against 2 pro tour teams plus some bad beats and my teammates couldn't seem to win a round together so every round I won we won but every time I lost we lost. Copter was decent but nothing special and the time I had a Copter on board, drew a second copter with no creature felt so insanely bad. I think I'm off on copter as well
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
So I played the RG Painter list at a weekly last night:
Maindeck:
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Goblin Engineer
4 Goblin Welder
2 Imperial Recruiter
3 Painter's Servant
3 Punishing Fire
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Veil of Summer
2 Smuggler's Copter
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Grindstone
1 Ichor Wellspring
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Mountain
3 Taiga
Sideboard:
1 Painter's Servant
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Grindstone
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Library
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
2 Walking Ballista
Deck felt soso, had wins against Goblins, Squawk and Taxes, and 4c Loam with a loss against 4c Delver. Veil of Summer didn't get cast a single time all evening, but I did like the Punishing Grove setup which was made better by the addition of Smuggler's Copters as a way to generate card advantage. If I were to run it back again, I'd probably cut the Veils for more Pyroblast effects and keep the Copter/Punishing Fire/Grove synergy in the deck.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jesture
the Punishing Grove setup which was made better by the addition of Smuggler's Copters
I'm not big on Coptors, but that actually sounds hot
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jesture
So I played the RG Painter list at a weekly last night:
Maindeck:
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Goblin Engineer
4 Goblin Welder
2 Imperial Recruiter
3 Painter's Servant
3 Punishing Fire
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Veil of Summer
2 Smuggler's Copter
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Grindstone
1 Ichor Wellspring
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Mountain
3 Taiga
Sideboard:
1 Painter's Servant
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Grindstone
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Library
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
2 Walking Ballista
Deck felt soso, had wins against Goblins, Squawk and Taxes, and 4c Loam with a loss against 4c Delver. Veil of Summer didn't get cast a single time all evening, but I did like the Punishing Grove setup which was made better by the addition of Smuggler's Copters as a way to generate card advantage. If I were to run it back again, I'd probably cut the Veils for more Pyroblast effects and keep the Copter/Punishing Fire/Grove synergy in the deck.
I like the idea of the Punishing combo in the GR lists, but I think there are some pit falls in the list that can make it clunky. To name a few I have not been a fan of Mox opal or wellspring in testing, Engineer feels like our worst creature by far I would rather have more recruiters then more Engineers especially with magus' in the board. With a heavier splash of green I think we can find some good sideboard cards, I like library a lot due to one of the big issues with painter IMHO is card selection. Also as you mentioned so few blast effects should be criminal.
I might test the following changes (ignoring the sideboard for now but I will edit my post once I have done some research in that regard)
-3 Mox Opal
-1 Icor Wellspring
-1 Goblin Engineer
-1 Taiga
+ 2 Pyroblast
+ 1 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Imperial Recruiter
+ 1 Smuggler's Copter
+ 1 Mountain
I'll test this a bit tonight and follow up.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tired_papasmurf
I'm not big on Coptors, but that actually sounds hot
Yeah most people on this forum didn't seem to like the Copters, but I figured I'd give them a shot since I had them lying around. Turned out pretty well, but I'd have to get a lot more experience with the deck before I declared them to be optimal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Milo687
I like the idea of the Punishing combo in the GR lists, but I think there are some pit falls in the list that can make it clunky. To name a few I have not been a fan of Mox opal or wellspring in testing, Engineer feels like our worst creature by far I would rather have more recruiters then more Engineers especially with magus' in the board. With a heavier splash of green I think we can find some good sideboard cards, I like library a lot due to one of the big issues with painter IMHO is card selection. Also as you mentioned so few blast effects should be criminal.
I might test the following changes (ignoring the sideboard for now but I will edit my post once I have done some research in that regard)
-3 Mox Opal
-1 Icor Wellspring
-1 Goblin Engineer
-1 Taiga
+ 2 Pyroblast
+ 1 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Imperial Recruiter
+ 1 Smuggler's Copter
+ 1 Mountain
I'll test this a bit tonight and follow up.
Yeah wasn't a huge fan of the Opals, but I do think they help to not get cut off of green mana (which is only relevant for Veil and SB cards.) Engineers had their awkward spots, but I think the 4x Engineer and the 2x Recruiter were concessions to Wrenn and Six being able to ping off Copter activators. Library was never drawn, but I'm sort of unsure of its place in this deck as its difficult to dig to find a singleton our singleton copy and we don't have E Tutor to fetch it. Maybe add an extra copy somewhere in the 75? I could see it taking the place of Wellspring in the main deck.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
i think it might be worth noting that retrofitter foundry is very good and should probably be tested.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mistercakes
i think it might be worth noting that
retrofitter foundry is very good and should probably be tested.
I had a miracles player play that against me in a league when I was on 4-color control. Seems good against control decks and slower decks, but I feel like it is bad to the same things the combo is bad against: Artifact hate, Creature hate (to an extent). It does have the merit of being fodder for Engineer and welder? Not sure if that is worth the slots though.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jesture
So I played the RG Painter list at a weekly last night:
Maindeck:
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Goblin Engineer
4 Goblin Welder
2 Imperial Recruiter
3 Painter's Servant
3 Punishing Fire
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Veil of Summer
2 Smuggler's Copter
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Grindstone
1 Ichor Wellspring
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Mountain
3 Taiga
Sideboard:
1 Painter's Servant
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Grindstone
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Library
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
2 Walking Ballista
Deck felt soso, had wins against Goblins, Squawk and Taxes, and 4c Loam with a loss against 4c Delver. Veil of Summer didn't get cast a single time all evening, but I did like the Punishing Grove setup which was made better by the addition of Smuggler's Copters as a way to generate card advantage. If I were to run it back again, I'd probably cut the Veils for more Pyroblast effects and keep the Copter/Punishing Fire/Grove synergy in the deck.
I urge you to try Wrenn & Six + Wasteland in there.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Played my list in the main event & went 3-3 drop. It was rough. I beat anything that wasn't UR Delver, but sadly the event was swarming with them. (All 3 of my losses were UR Delver) Once they turned the corner it was unwinnable. I never played the mirror (which is a shame because I have lots of practice with it) but it was insane how often I heard people saying they played against Mono-Red Painter, Shortcake & even spicy Painter brews. (One guy was on a hybrid list that combined Urza Thopter & traditional Blue Painter) my wins were VS Grixis Control, Dragon Stompy & Storm. After dropping I played in the PTQ VS Lands, Stoneblade, Taxes, Storm & 2 Loam decks, which was a much more diverse meta representation. Never lost a round to Storm today, so perhaps the goal of tweaking my list for the future should be more focused around dealing with the Delver menace. Blasts countering True Names & popping Delvers just wasn't enough when Young Pyromancer came down & flooded the board with angry little red men. It also feels bad knowing that they can find their 1 of Null Rod with relative ease. Dreadhorde Arcanist recasting Brainstorms & Ponders from the graveyard allowed them to dig up just about anything they needed to find. Spellskite helped, but that poor little horror couldn't protect my assets all by itself. The moral of the story is... my Painter list needs more answers to that deck's threats somewhere in the 75 to be able to hang with the big boys.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I just finished 2nd out of 134 in Finnish legacy nationals with my mono red list:
//Main
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Pyroblast
4 Goblin Engineer
4 Blood Moon
3 Painter's Servant
3 Grindstone
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Smuggler's Copter
2 Goblin Welder
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Hope of Ghirapur
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Chrome Mox
//Sideboard
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Mycosynth Lattice
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Grindstone
SB: 1 Painter's Servant
Round 1 win 2-0 BUG delver
Round 2 win 2-0 Stoneblade
Round 3 win 2-1 BURG(?) control, I think
Round 4 win 2-0 Lands
Round 5 win 2-0 Lands
Round 6 loss 0-2 Stoneblade
Round 7 win 2-1 Bomberman
Round 8 ID
Quarterfinals win 2-0 Death & Taxes
Semifinals win 2-0 RUG delver
Finals Lost 0-2 Jeskai mentor
I don't play much nowadays, so I don't know much of the current format, but have no doubt that Goblin Engineer and Karn are pure gas for this deck. You now get to play 8 super powerful maindeck tutors in mono red.
I lost both my feature matches. I always lose them. I'm so nervous. I make terrible plays and realize them as soon as it's too late. Finals went better, though, despite losing.
Imperial painter has always been my pet deck, meaning I play it even if it's not that good. But this iteration felt very capable.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Congrats, I watched the finals stream as it luckily was shared around a bit :-). I was wondering about that Jaya, felt a bit old school.
Looked like a lot of delver / UWx control variants. Looking forward to (after)thoughts on how to beat these value/card advantage machines.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Thanks! Old habits die hard :) Jaya used to be my go-to swiss multi-tool for the grindy games under Ensnaring bridge, chalices and such. So yeah, it is not neccessary anymore since Karn is an answer to pretty much anything imaginable.
Against value decks you just cast bomb after bomb until the one that survives takes the game over. Before Karn and Engineer, your plays were easy to ignore until you threaten to activate combo. Now you have so much going on that they *have* to keep up or just lose. Yesterday outside my two losses they always ran dry before me. Between Karn and goblins the deck finally has inevitability through recursion and tutoring.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Right, both against UW variants you lost :(.
What's your thoughts about 4 Blood Moon? Yay or nay?
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I used to play 8 moons. I find 5 comfortable. Thinking of dropping one more because it is not the best card in the deck anymore.
I won and lost against uw variants. Someone who actually plays this game might likely have done better.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Thanks for that reply btw. Paint on and really cool to see you rocking it.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Hello painters,
I'm building this deck, always loved it and lost to it many times :wink:
I have a question, what's your experience with the RUG delver matchup? In this article: https://www.channelfireball.com/all-...-prix-atlanta/ it says that Painter has a horrific low (20%) win-percentage.
I would think the main blue-hate would help in this match-up, am I wrong?
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Yes, the RUG Delver matchup is pretty bad. You can blast delver so that's fine but you can't blast the other threats. Wasteland + daze are pretty good vs painter, it's easy to get choked on mana, and bolts are very effective at answering Painter. You can certainly put up a fight but it's often a bit tough, in my experience.
Also, join the Discord for more discussion (in addition to here). There should be a link in the discord thread.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pettdan
Yes, the RUG Delver matchup is pretty bad. You can blast delver so that's fine but you can't blast the other threats. Wasteland + daze are pretty good vs painter, it's easy to get choked on mana, and bolts are very effective at answering Painter. You can certainly put up a fight but it's often a bit tough, in my experience.
Also, join the Discord for more discussion (in addition to here). There should be a link in the discord thread.
Thanks for your answer, RUG Delver has died meanwhile :cool: