Humility and Phyrexian Totem/manlands
If my opponent has a Humility in play, it says that "all creatures lose all abilities and are 1/1's". But what if I have a Phyrexian Totem in play and activate it turning it into a 5/5, can it somehow get around Humility's effect? My logic is that maybe it could because it was never a creature in the first place. I'm also wondering if the same applies for manlands. Any help would be great. Thanx.
Re: Humility and Phyrexian Totem/manlands
When P. Totem is activated it becomes a creature, loses all abilities, and becomes a 5/5. Simple.
Re: Humility and Phyrexian Totem/manlands
You're wrong, the Totem is effected by timestamp. When activated like manlands it'll be a 5/5.
Re: Humility and Phyrexian Totem/manlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wastedlife
You're wrong, the Totem is effected by timestamp. When activated like manlands it'll be a 5/5.
Will you get the crap about "Time Stamp" out of your head!!!
(That goes for everybody, not just Bryant!!!)
Humility works now because of layers. Yes, like the manlands, the totem will have power and toughness equal to whatever animated stats are printed on the card, but won't have any abilities.
Re: Humility and Phyrexian Totem/manlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
on1y0ne
Will you get the crap about "Time Stamp" out of your head!!!
(That goes for everybody, not just Bryant!!!)
It is necessary to understand time stamps in order to understand how Humility interacts with other continuous effects, such as those created by manlands and Totems.
If you activate a Phyrexian Totem, and play a Humility afterwards, the Totem will shrink to a 1/1 and lose its abilities. Obviously this won't happen often, but it seems relevant nonetheless.
Quote:
Humility works now because of layers. Yes, like the manlands, the totem will have power and toughness equal to whatever animated stats are printed on the card, but won't have any abilities.
I'm fairly certain you are incorrect. For reference (copied from the Comp Rules again, although nothing was changed since my post above):
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Comp Rules
418.5a The values of an object’s characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object, then applying continuous effects in a series of layers in the following order:
(1) copy effects (see rule 503, “Copying Objects”)
(2) control-changing effects
(3) text-changing effects
(4) type-, subtype-, and supertype-changing effects
(5) all other continuous effects, except those that change power and/or toughness
(6) power- and/or toughness-changing effects.
Inside each layer from 1 through 5, apply effects from characteristic-setting abilities first, then all other effects in timestamp order. Inside layer 6, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the following order:
(6a) effects from characteristic-setting abilities
(6b) all other effects not specifically applied in 6c, 6d, or 6e
(6c) changes from counters
(6d) effects from static abilities that modify power and/or toughness but don’t set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value
(6e) effects that switch a creature’s power and toughness.
Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order
Here is the Oracle text of Phyrexian Totem:
Quote:
3
Artifact
T: Add B to your mana pool.
2B: Phyrexian Totem becomes a 5/5 black Horror artifact creature with trample until end of turn.
Whenever Phyrexian Totem is dealt damage, if it's a creature, sacrifice that many permanents.
When you activate the Totem's second ability, it creates a continuous effect with three parts, each of which apply in a different layer:
1) Totem becomes a Horror artifact creature until end of turn. This applies in layer 4.
3) Totem is black and has trample until end of turn. This applies in layer 5.
2) Totem becomes a 5/5 until end of turn. This applies in (sub)layer 6b.
The Oracle text of Humility:
Quote:
2WW
Enchantment
All creatures lose all abilities and are 1/1.
Humility creates a continuous effect with two parts:
1) All creatures lose all abilities. This applies in layer 5.
2) All creatures are 1/1. This applies in (sub)layer 6b.
Obviously, there is no conflict with Totem becoming a Horror artifact creature. Humility has no control over types.
However, there is a conflict in layer 5. Totem's ability wants Totem to be black and to have trample. Humility doesn't care what color Totem is, but it doesn't want it to have trample. Since all of this is going on in layer 5, we have to look at timestamp to figure out which effect wins out. Assuming Humility is already in play when the Totem's ability resolves, the Totem's ability will have the later timestamp, and thus will overrule Humility's effect.
So, the Totem will be black and will have trample.
In (sub)layer 6b, there will be another conflict. Humility wants the Totem to be 1/1, but the effect created by the Totem's ability wants it to be 5/5. Again, timestamp order is applied, and the Totem will become a 5/5.
The interesting thing about Phryrexian Totem is that its other ability, the sacrifice trigger, is "built-in" to the card. It isn't granted by any continuous effect, so Humility will remove it as soon as the Totem becomes a creature. This is similar to why an animated Factory loses its pumping ability under Humility.
In other words, Phyrexian Totem becomes strictly better under Humility. It loses nothing but the drawback.