RG Beats

I have been eying a list for something like this for a long time and last night I decided to finally type something up and see what the world says.

With the printing of a 3/4 for 1 I feel that the RG combination is finally has the tools to compete with the rest of the format.

Dudes 24
4 Elvish Reclaimer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Scab-Clan Beserker
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Goblin Cratermaker

Spells 16
4 Wrenn and Six
4 Lighting Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
4 Chain Lightning


Lands 20
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Taiga
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Barbarian Ring

Sideboard

3 Veil of Summer
3 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extractions
2 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
2 Pyroclasm

Bunch of edits and playtesting so far. Love the Beserker in spell/control matchups so they are main to steal some game 1’s. Cratermakers are there to stall Eldrazi out until a magus hits.

Wren and Looting are a surprisingly strong draw engine as you get to discard lands.

I don't know if you need Simian Spirit Guides. It gets you a t1 two-mana play, or a Magus on turn 2, but do you want to open yourself up to that kind of card disadvantage? I think something like Grim Lavamancer, or just more burn spells, could be better. I think Magmatic Sinkhole would be a great way to synergize with Faithless Looting as well.

I have also been trying to find the best application of Elvish Reclaimer; I really like the card as an aggressive 3/4 for G in the right deck that finds utility lands to fight combo decks like Bog/Karakas or even just tricks with W&6.

What a coincidence. I thought about this kind of deck yesterday.

What I would test (I mean, you since this isnt my style of deck) is based on this sequence:

Turn 1: Orchish Lumberjack
Turn 2: Wrenn and Six
Turn 3: Carnage Tyrant

Reclaimer is good as an alternative 1 mana drop.
I would play utility lands like Bog and probably even Crop Rotation maindeck, that way you can have answers to fast graveyard hate decks or Show and Tell (Karakas).

Bolts are fine. Dryad Arbor seems good to, protects both Carnage and Wrenn.
I think GSZ is a must top, for Ooze e other utility green creatures.

This looks cool. I love Zoo, and I miss it dearly in Legacy. If you want to playtest the list online, pm me. I'll gladly run it through the gauntlet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thefreakaccident

If you want to playtest the list online, pm me. I'll gladly run it through the gauntlet.

---

People like you are the real MVP

Made a few changes:

Dudes 24
4 Elvish Reclaimer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Goblin Cratermakers

Spells 16
4 Wren and Six
4 Lighting Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
4 Chain Lightning

Lands 20
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Taiga
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Barbarian Ring

Sideboard
3 Veil of Summer
3 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extractions
2 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
2 Sudden Demise

Cratermakers are big against Eldrazi and against equipment, which are both struggles right now.

Looting and Wren are really fun and fair together.

Added extra guide to make sure you had them when you need to power out a play.

Very intrigued by this deck idea! One possible inclusion that immediately jumped to mind was Edge of Autumn. I also liked your idea of trying Narnam Renegade. There is another revolt card - Greenwheel Liberator - that also sounds tempting because it comes down with 4 power immediately, unlike Tarmogoyf. Though Tarmogoyf is still probably superior the vast majority of games.
Following these ideas, I made this quick draft. Goes ball deep into aggro territory.

// 60 Maindeck
// 22 Creature
4 Elvish Reclaimer
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Goblin Cratermaker
4 Narnam Renegade
3 Elvish Spirit Guide (heavier green focus of this list makes it better than ape)
4 Greenwheel Liberator
2 Fanatical Firebrand (to help trigger Revolt. probably suboptimal though)

// 5 Instant
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Lava Dart (feeds lands to the yard, triggers revolt, kills pesky critters)

// 21 Land
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring

// 4 Planeswalker
4 Wrenn and Six

// 8 Sorcery
4 Edge of Autumn
4 Faithless Looting

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Glass House

Very intrigued by this deck idea! One possible inclusion that immediately jumped to mind was Edge of Autumn. I also liked your idea of trying Narnam Renegade. There is another revolt card - Greenwheel Liberator - that also sounds tempting because it comes down with 4 power immediately, unlike Tarmogoyf. Though Tarmogoyf is still probably superior the vast majority of games.
Following these ideas, I made this quick draft. Goes ball deep into aggro territory.

// 60 Maindeck
// 22 Creature
4 Elvish Reclaimer
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Goblin Cratermaker
4 Narnam Renegade
3 Elvish Spirit Guide (heavier green focus of this list makes it better than ape)
4 Greenwheel Liberator
2 Fanatical Firebrand (to help trigger Revolt. probably suboptimal though)

// 5 Instant
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Lava Dart (feeds lands to the yard, triggers revolt, kills pesky critters)

// 21 Land
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Barbarian Ring

// 4 Planeswalker
4 Wrenn and Six

// 8 Sorcery
4 Edge of Autumn
4 Faithless Looting

---

Love the feedback.

A few things:

Tarmogoyf is out of boot range very quickly where as the revolt guy is always a 4/3.

This is legacy and we need to have ways to just deal with certain matchups. Mainboard Magus of the Moon swings many matchups, as does the mainboard Eidolons. Those two are kind of the reason to do something like this as without we are pretty dead to a large range of strategies.

Strangely enough this list was almost put together as a RG Haterade deck when I was done. Hate spells, hate nonbasics, hate colorless permanents.

The renegades would be good in a very fair format with lots of creatures and no combo.

Merrit Elmasri just won the Leaving a Legacy open with Punishing Zoo. I think you have an opportunity to capitalize on the current metagame by having a similar aggressive strategy. I don't think it would be bad to play PFire/Groves, especially if you're playing Faithless Looting. Reclaimers get Groves, Looting finds PFires, and you're all gassed up to take down a lot of fair matchups.

I've been thinking about this deck since yesterday, and wanted to give it another shot at an actually competitive list. Jax-'s comment made me realize that Orcish Lumberjack and Wrenn and Six pair perfectly with each other! That should be worth looking into. Lumberjack allows for some mighty turn 2 plays.
Some other choices: Centaur Vinecrasher sounds like a bit of a no-brainer inclusion. Titania, Protector of Argoth is bros with Lumberjack. The newly spoiled Anje's Ravager (2R 3/3 that discards your hand and draws three on attack) might be the best aggro-friendly way to refill and keep things flowing. Domri, Anarch of Bolas sounds attractive to me, at least in paper. Removal, counter protection and a damage boost for the whole family.

// 60 Maindeck
// 28 Creature
4 Elvish Reclaimer
4 Orcish Lumberjack
3 Titania, Protector of Argoth
2 Goblin Cratermaker
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Anje's Ravager
1 Centaur Vinecrasher
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Simian Spirit Guide

// 1 Enchantment
1 Cindervines

// 4 Instant
4 Lightning Bolt

// 21 Land
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
2 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Bloodstained Mire

// 6 Planeswalker
4 Wrenn and Six
2 Domri, Anarch of Bolas

I don't understand the point of Manamorphose.

You don't need bad cards like Edge of Autumn and Lava Dart to enable revolt. Fetchlands/Wasteland do it 90% of the time, especially with Wrenn and Six to recycle them and Elvish Reclaimer as a land tutor/sac outlet.

Tarmogoyf is much better than Greenwheel Liberator. But this deck will draw graveyard hate to beat Wrenn lock and weaken Reclaimer, and that incidentally wrecks Goyf too, so maybe it should be 2-3 copies instead of 4.

Hate seems important mainboard to not scoop too many game 1s. Eidolon is strong against most of the format in any Mountain deck trying to race to 0. Easy include. But Magus has anti-synergy with Wastelock, fetchland shenanigans (revolt, Titania, Wrenn), Orcish Lumberjack (fewer Forests and can't fetch them), and Punishing Fire. And is turn 2 Magus on the draw fast enough to matter? Maybe Magus doesn't belong.

In the non-Lumberjack version, Punishing Fire + Grove seems really good. Also why not play Wild Nacatl and splash a Savannah, giving you up to 12 powerful 1-drops for the optimal sligh curve? White mana opens up more SB options too.

Spirit Guides seem bad (card disadvantage) unless we're powering out hate pieces like Magus or Eidolon, and is turn 2 Magus on the draw fast enough? Zoo is supposed to eat blue decks by having more cheap threats than they have answers (Wild Nacatl > FoW). If we start generating card disadvantage, it tilts back in favor of the blue deck. Spirit Guides fit better in the Lumberjack ramp version.

Bojuka Bog and Karakas should be somewhere in the 75, probably in the SB. 1-2 Crop Rotation may be a good idea too, also enabling revolt and filling the yard for Reclaimer, Terravore 2.0 and Wrenn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FTW

I don't understand the point of Manamorphose.

You don't need bad cards like Edge of Autumn and Lava Dart to enable revolt. Fetchlands/Wasteland do it 90% of the time, especially with Wrenn and Six to recycle them and Elvish Reclaimer as a land tutor/sac outlet.

Tarmogoyf is much better than Greenwheel Liberator. But this deck will draw graveyard hate to beat Wrenn lock and weaken Reclaimer, and that incidentally wrecks Goyf too, so maybe it should be 2-3 copies instead of 4.

Hate seems important mainboard to not scoop too many game 1s. Eidolon is strong against most of the format in any Mountain deck trying to race to 0. Easy include. But Magus has anti-synergy with Wastelock, fetchland shenanigans (revolt, Titania, Wrenn), Orcish Lumberjack (fewer Forests and can't fetch them), and Punishing Fire. And is turn 2 Magus on the draw fast enough to matter? Maybe Magus doesn't belong.

In the non-Lumberjack version, Punishing Fire + Grove seems really good. Also why not play Wild Nacatl and splash a Savannah, giving you up to 12 powerful 1-drops for the optimal sligh curve? White mana opens up more SB options too.

Spirit Guides seem bad (card disadvantage) unless we're powering out hate pieces like Magus or Eidolon, and is turn 2 Magus on the draw fast enough? Zoo is supposed to eat blue decks by having more cheap threats than they have answers (Wild Nacatl > FoW). If we start generating card disadvantage, it tilts back in favor of the blue deck. Spirit Guides fit better in the Lumberjack ramp version.

Bojuka Bog and Karakas should be somewhere in the 75, probably in the SB. 1-2 Crop Rotation may be a good idea too, also enabling revolt and filling the yard for Reclaimer, Terravore 2.0 and Wrenn.

---

Here is the current list:


Re: RG Beats
Made a few changes:

Dudes 24
4 Elvish Reclaimer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Goblin Cratermakers

Spells 16
4 Wren and Six
4 Lighting Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
4 Chain Lightning

Lands 20
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Taiga
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Barbarian Ring

Sideboard
3 Veil of Summer
3 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extractions
2 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
2 Pyroclasm

I can update the main post tonight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FTW

In the non-Lumberjack version, Punishing Fire + Grove seems really good. Also why not play Wild Nacatl and splash a Savannah, giving you up to 12 powerful 1-drops for the optimal sligh curve? White mana opens up more SB options too.

---

I heartily agree, the most notable sideboard options being Gaddock Teeg and Ethersworn Canonist. Siding a couple Swords to Plowshares or Blessed Alliance could also be very good. Knight of the Reliquary seems pretty decent here as well, but at that point it becomes Punishing Zoo. For that sort of build I recommend Elmasri's list here, maybe with some changes:

https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=22566&d=353815&f=LE

Quote:

---

Spirit Guides seem bad (card disadvantage) unless we're powering out hate pieces like Magus or Eidolon, and is turn 2 Magus on the draw fast enough? Zoo is supposed to eat blue decks by having more cheap threats than they have answers (Wild Nacatl > FoW). If we start generating card disadvantage, it tilts back in favor of the blue deck. Spirit Guides fit better in the Lumberjack ramp version.

---

I also like this part. If anything I would be desperately trying to cram at least 1 Sylvan Library, probably 2. Card is nuts in the blue matchups.

Lastly, I don't think I would leave home without at least 2-3 Chokes in my green sideboards. I also think that the curve allows for Winter Orb to be pretty devastating in the control matchups, probably better than Magus.

If you're running Wrenn and Six and a Moon effect, don't you want Mox Diamond in here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I heartily agree, the most notable sideboard options being Gaddock Teeg and Ethersworn Canonist. Siding a couple Swords to Plowshares or Blessed Alliance could also be very good. Knight of the Reliquary seems pretty decent here as well, but at that point it becomes Punishing Zoo. For that sort of build I recommend Elmasri's list here, maybe with some changes:

https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=22566&d=353815&f=LE



I also like this part. If anything I would be desperately trying to cram at least 1 Sylvan Library, probably 2. Card is nuts in the blue matchups.

Lastly, I don't think I would leave home without at least 2-3 Chokes in my green sideboards. I also think that the curve allows for Winter Orb to be pretty devastating in the control matchups, probably better than Magus.

---

All these options, slow the deck down. Simian Spirit Guide is a 2/2 beater that speeds the deck up. The plan is almost an "aggro hatebears" approach, with Magus and Beserker providing different angles of attack against certain decks.

Mox Diamond requires more lands than I am willing to play at this point.

Maybe this turns into some sort of RG Aggro loam, but then I would be fighting the battle to turn into straight 4C loam.

How often does the SSG 2/2 body matter in your matches? It's the least efficient creature in the deck.

What about an even more beatdown plan?


//1 drops: 12
4 Elvish Reclaimer
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Wild Nacatl

//2 drops: 11
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Scavenging Ooze

//Planeswalkers: 4
4 Wrenn and Six

//Spells: 11
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Green Sun's Zenith

//Enchantments: 2
2 Sylvan Library

//Lands: 20
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Plateau
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Barbarian Ring

//Sideboard: 15
3 Veil of Summer
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Winter Orb
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Knight of Autumn
2 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lavafrogg

All these options, slow the deck down. Simian Spirit Guide is a 2/2 beater that speeds the deck up. The plan is almost an "aggro hatebears" approach, with Magus and Beserker providing different angles of attack against certain decks.

---

These 2 goals are antithesis to each other. Hatebears, by their very nature, aren't very aggressive. That isn't their role; rather it's to disrupt first and beat down second. If you want to speed the deck up, counting on SSG as a 2/2 for 3 mana is a poor way to go about it in my opinion. The way to speed it up would be to add creatures that have aggressive efficiency instead of disruptive utility. Beyond Tarmogoyf in straight R/G would be cards like Terravore, Bloodbraid Elf, Goblin Rabblemaster, Grim Lavamancer, or even just Kird Ape.

Hexdrinker is the better 1 drop. Especially with Orcish Lumberjack, which I also use in my RG painter list. It's a 1 drop that turns into a TNN twice its size. You can get an active 6/6 pro-everything on turn 3 with Lumberjack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

The way to speed it up would be to add creatures that have aggressive efficiency instead of disruptive utility. Beyond Tarmogoyf in straight R/G would be cards like Terravore, Bloodbraid Elf, Goblin Rabblemaster, Grim Lavamancer, or even just Kird Ape.

---

BBE is too slow, it's a midrange card. Even RUG Waterfalls started cutting it, and that's a grindy lategame deck optimized to get the most value from it.

I think Rabblemaster is too slow too without either Ancient Tomb (Moon Stompy) or Goblin Lackey/Aether Vial /Chrone Mox + Rishadan Port (some builds of Vial Goblins). It's better as an "army in a can" in a disruptive deck than as an aggro threat.

Lavamancer has anti-synergy with Wrenn, Reclaimer and Goyf. The easiest fuel will be spent fetches/Wastes, and you won't want to exile them in case you topdeck something that cares about them.

If you're not splashing white for Nacatl and Knight, Terravore seems good in the 3 spot. Countryside Crusher (an old aggro loam threat) interacts well with Wrenn and Reclaimer.

Is Kird Ape better than Goblin Guide? I know GG is bad with Wasteland, but it's still pressure. Hexdrinker can be good, but you can also get blown out on tempo by a well-timed Bolt/Plow.

If this deck goes more aggro and stays in RG, is it worth considering 2 Fireblast? It can end races fast if you're willing to gamble casting it pre-combat damage with Terravore and Elvish Reclaimer attacking.. Also the SB should have Price of Progress before Choke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FTW

How often does the SSG 2/2 body matter in your matches? It's the least efficient creature in the deck.

What about an even more beatdown plan?


//1 drops: 12
4 Elvish Reclaimer
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Wild Nacatl

//2 drops: 11
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Scavenging Ooze

//Planeswalkers: 4
4 Wrenn and Six

//Spells: 11
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Green Sun's Zenith

//Enchantments: 2
2 Sylvan Library

//Lands: 20
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Plateau
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Barbarian Ring

//Sideboard: 15
3 Veil of Summer
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Winter Orb
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Knight of Autumn
2 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas

---

I don’t hate this. Teeg might need to make it main, I don’t know though