Best mana base for a 3 colored deck?!

I try to find the best possible mana base for my GWU Flicker deck.

I've come up with the following possible lands, which I could include, but I only need like 36-38.

Can you help me evaluate them? For example, it's hard for me to decide if a Mirage Fetchland, which makes 3 colors (with the duals) is better than a Painland, which makes only 2 colors, but enters untapped.
Or if the old filterlands are better/worse than the new ones.
Or how many utility lands should I include?
How many basics should I run?

3 Duals
3 Fetchlands
3 Shocklands
3 M10/Innistrad Duals (Sunpetal Grove)
3 Scars of Mirrodin Duals (Seachrome Coast)
2 Painlands (Adarkar Wastes)
2 Filterlands (Skycloud Expanse)
2 Mirage Fetchlands (Grasslands)
3 Ravnica Karoos (Azorius Chancery)
3 Shadowmoor/Eventide Filterlands (Flooded Grove)
3 Zendikar Refugiums (Graypelt Refuge)
3 Lorwyn Vivid Lands (Vivid Meadow)
2 Guildgates/Invasion lands
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Krosan Verge

Utility lands like:

Tectonic Edge
Wasteland
Strip Mine
Alchemist's Refuge
Moorland Haunt
Stirring Wildwood
Sapseep Forest
Celestial Colonnade
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Treetop Village

...

For some lands which enters game tapped I use one approximation - its like paying 1 mana for the case if you can play basic land instead. check what exactly the land does and then consider whether its worth to pay 1 mana for ability which the land provides.

Ravnica Bouncelands Azorius chancery are highly valued commons because they are like two lands in single card, while in next turn you can play even the land which was bounced. The only problem is that when you play too many of them you may get screwed on opening hand.

Painlands are usually avoided by most players because of existence of pain fetchlands such as Arid Mesa. Those can be used for searching even nonbasic lands - such as old duals. This combinantion is most effective and most expensive in means of money.

Panoramas from Shards of Alara are in my opinion the most underrated lands. Bant panorama for example allows you to find any basic land of the color you need. Enters the game untapped and can be used immediately for colorless mana, and later be transformed to colored land. The total cost is however 3 colorless mana (tap panorama, tap other land, searched land enter battlefield tapped), but thats same cost as with Expedition Map or Wayfarer's Bauble. The question is whether your deck need to de-land library, additional shuffles and if is colorless mana for your mana pool problem or not.

Krosan verge Highly valued land.
Skycloud expanse and similar filterlands are quite rare to see in our playgroup. I wonder why. To me seems great for dual color and triple color decks.

Vivids are also quite valued.

The main question is also for which kind of deck you require the lands. Aggro decks should rely on untapped lands, while control decks have not much trouble to play tapped ones.

Thanks for your answer.

My deck is not aggro but not control either. I'd say some midrange deck. But very mana intensive, since I often bounce my creatures and replay them or use some mana intensive effects like that of Mistmeadow Witch.

Hm, Bant Panorama, really? I've dismissed the panorama lands, because I found them to be very bad. I think Evoling Wilds/Terramorphix Expanse/Grasslands/Flood Plain are better, but maybe I will test them.

Painlands are avoided due to fetchlands? That doesn't make much sense, because you can only run 3 fetchlands, which doesn't make a mana base.

What are your thoughts about: M10 Duals vs Painlands vs Scars of Mirrodin Duals?

I run a single Gatecreeper Vine. Do you think it is worth running Azorius Guildgate and Selesnya Guildgate?

I know that most players dismissed Panoramas. My own intention of using them in deck is to provide additional shuffling and check the top with the Sensei's divining top and to de-land library as much as possible. And since its a colorless land its not worthy target for some kind of destruction, while still can be productive for me. They are specific because you can use them for colorless mana, for as long as you wish and fetch with when you really need. But i have to mention it that I use them as utility lands in monocolor deck :D Krosan verge is very close to them with its function, but I dont have the right colors to play it.

M10, Innistrad, and Mirrodin lands are great if you can meet the condition. If you dont intend to play spell on your first turn there is no problem with them even on opening hand. In other case when you desperately need to start as soon as possible it may be a bit troublesome. I personally dont see any big trouble if they enter battlefield tapped. However - they dont have land subtype so they cannot be fetched as easy as the following example.

Adarkar wastes are not being used due following logic: Play Flooded strand instead. Fetch, you get bitten once. Search for Tundra, or any other dual which is island or plain. Ravnica dual Hallowed fountain is considered as budget/casual solution. If you want color from Adarkar Wastes you get bitten every time. Also the fetchland helped you by de-landing the library. People play this to show how much money they can spent on MTG... (mostly rich kids), however I have to admit that this works best when you need to de-land library and collect the manabase.

Zendikar refugee lands are not played much here. I dont know why. Most people are scared to play any land which comes into play tapped, no matter that in this case you get something extra. But utility lands such as Bojuka bog are being played quite often. In this case people understood that "comes tapped" means that you have just paid for the effect it provides.

Dual manlands such as Celestial colonnade are more considered to be creature, than a dual land. They see play quite often.

Guildgates are usually avoided in EDH here. Just because people use to put more expensive lands into their decks. So I can hardly tell whether it has any meaning to play them.

Also people use to forget on old cards... Thawing glaciers - eternal fetchland :)

What about some artifacts such as Khalni gem (very underrated), or Gilded lotus? Guild signets are very popular.

Crafting a solid mana base is mostly a trial and error process. As you play your deck, you'll come to realize that some of your land choices may be sub-optimal and change it up accordingly. Crafting a solid mana base can also be an expensive process, especially if you don't already own most of the lands. My own personal "rankings" for color-fixing lands look like this (best to worst):

1. A/B/U Duals (i.e. Tundra)

2. Ravnica Shocks (i.e. Hallowed Fountain)

3. "Pain" fetchlands (i.e. Flooded Strand)

4. Filter lands (i.e. Mystic Gate)

5. M10/Innistrad Check Lands (i.e. Glacial Fortress)

6. Pain Lands (i.e. Adarkar Wastes)

7. Ravnica Karoos (i.e. Azorius Chancery)

8. Panoramas (i.e. Bant Panorama)

9. Basic Fetchlands (i.e. Evolving Wilds)

There are of course other options you can look at like the Vivid lands, Zendikar "duals", Guildgates, Shards Tri-lands etc. Evaluate those based on both your need for access to those colors and your deck's ability to function with a high amount of lands that enter the battlefield tapped. I tend to stay away from the Guildgates in 3+ color decks...but Izzet Guildgate (for example) is nice in a R/U deck since the enemy color producing options aren't as plentiful as the allied color producing ones.

Once you have a solid color base, you can start to look at non-basic, non-fixing lands. I usually start with "better than a basic" lands like Minamo, School at Water's Edge and move into the colorless producing things like Strip Mine based on what I think my deck needs answers for.

Once you've got that filled out, the rest is basic lands based on your colored mana needs. I don't have a hard and fast "rule" for the number of basics to run...it's generally just the number of spots I have left (usually around 16-18 or so, depending on the deck).

I worked extensively on the manabase for my Damia deck and here is what I found was optimal:

3 Dual
3 Shock
3 Filter
9 Fetch (real fetches, not Mirage nor basic fetches like Evolving Wilds)
2-3 Painlands depending on what my color requirements were
1 City of Brass
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Ancient Tomb (You probably can use the ramp)
X Utility Lands
X Basic lands

You have forty life so losing life to pain/fetch lands is inconsequential. ETB tapped lands are shit and should be avoided. If you play in a more casual setting I am sure you can get away with M10/Innistrad duals. I would never play the Scars lands. However I played in a highly competitive meta so hitting all my colors/curve was really important.

As Apistat_Commander stated above, in a tri color EDH deck, you can actually run 9 fetches.

Since you're playing Bant colors, you can also run the Bant triland from Shards.

One thing to keep in mind is how often do you expect to run into people with non-basic hate. Around my store it's a given to see Blood Moons, Back to Basics, Dust Bowls, and even Curse of the Marit Lage (yeah really) in every game.


If I have green I tend to run a large amount of basics just due to that alone. Then use things like Kodama's Reach, Cultivate, Skyshroud Claim, and the like to make sure I have my colors all the while getting a little ahead in mana.

Even if I go with this plan I still tend to run the appropriate duals, fetches, and legendary Kamigawa lands typically. I consider more if I have a lot of double or triple color requirements. Otherwise it works quite well.

3 Duals
3 Shocklands
9 Fetchlands (In your WUG deck, this would be every one except Bloodstained Mire)
3 Filter Lands (Flooded Grove, Mystic Gate, Wooded Bastion)
3 M10/INN Duals (Sunpetal Grove, Glacial Fortress, Hinterland Harbor)
4-5 lands that make all your colors (Command Tower, Reflecting Pool, City of Brass, Exotic Orchard, Forbidden Orchard)
3-4 other/utility lands in your colors, Horizon Canopy, Nimbus Maze, Gaea's Cradle, Serra's Sanctum, Academy Ruins, etc.
5-8 Basic lands in a ratio that matches the color breakdown of your deck

I guarantee you will almost never be color screwed with this mana base. You may not always draw as many lands as you want, but that's Magic.

As several people have said, if money and flavor aren't the primary concerns, there's a Should Play list and a Should Consider list. (If you feel like you shouldn't play Scalding Tarn in a UGW deck, that's a valid flavor concern; your mileage may vary.) Keep in mind that these suggestions are all for UGW lists, so I've left out lots of awesome utility lands.

Should play:
3 ABU dual lands
3 Ravnica shock lands
3-9 Fetchlands
3 M10 duals
3 Shadowmoor/Eventide Filter lands
2-3 Ravnica Bounce Lands
1 Command Tower
1 Dust Bowl
1 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
Between several and lots of each type of basic

Lands you should consider playing:
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Tectonic Edge
Bant Panorama
Kor Haven
Temple of the False God
Ancient Tomb
5 Color Lands: Exotic Orchard, Reflecting Pool, Rupture Spire
2 color manlands (Celestial Colonnade)


Lands you might consider playing, if you have a strong reason to play them:
Mirage Fetchlands
1-mana cycling lands (Lonely Sandbar)
2-mana cycling lands (Remote Isle)
Artifact lands
Academy Ruins
Deserted Temple
Gaea's Cradle
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Gavony Township
Novijen, Heart of Progress

If you're in green, it's hard not to run
Cultivate
Kodama's Reach
Explosive Vegetation
Skyshroud Claim
Ranger's Path
Krosan Tusker
You can also run the green creature ramp spells. If your deck cares about having creatures in play, you should consider
Wood Elves
Farhaven Elf
Yavimaya Dryad
Yavimaya Granger
Ondu Giant
Silverglade Elemental


There end up being too many good ramp spells in green to run all of them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AngryTroll

As several people have said, if money and flavor aren't the primary concerns, there's a Should Play list and a Should Consider list. (If you feel like you shouldn't play Scalding Tarn in a UGW deck, that's a valid flavor concern; your mileage may vary.) Keep in mind that these suggestions are all for UGW lists, so I've left out lots of awesome utility lands.

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Oh yeah the flavor... I didn't even thought about the option of playing off-color fetchlands. I think I'll chose the pro-flavor playstyle ;-).

Which awesome utility lands did you left out? You name quite a few! Alchemist's Refuge?

It seems the most of you agree on a core of lands (Duals, Shockduals, Fetchlands, new Filterlands, M10 Duals) and some others (Painlands, Karoos, Command Tower). The rest of lands is personal preference or depends on the deck.

I wonder why nobody mentions/plays the Odyssey Filterlands (Skycloud Expanse). Are they too bad to play? Seems like at least as good as the M10 Duals, since they don't provide mana on the first turn.

Thank you all for your input!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sco0ter

I wonder why nobody mentions/plays the Odyssey Filterlands (Skycloud Expanse). Are they too bad to play? Seems like at least as good as the M10 Duals, since they don't provide mana on the first turn.

Thank you all for your input!

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They're okay, but you need to be running a lot of artifact mana and have a huge need for colored mana before they're worth it IMO.