So who here is going to drop legacy for Pre-War legacy?

Underworld Breach, Wrenn and Six, 3eferi, Oko, Veil of Summer, but most egregiously the Companions are a breaking point.

Magic is power creeping too damn much and too damn fast. Defeats the point of an eternal format if you have to revamp or outright scrap your deck for a new meta every month. Companions completely change the nature of deck building itself and unless they ban all companions and promise not to print any more, I see no reason to continue with legacy, modern or pioneer.

My friends and I decided to leave legacy for a version of legacy before WoTC ramped power creep to 11. We are leaning towards jumping into Legacy as it was right before War of the Spark released as this allows for the largest number of cards while leaving most of worst mistakes of recent set design behind.

Is anyone else here making the switch? If not, is there an alternate format that you prefer? I heard mention of a preInnistrad format so if you think thats a better format, you can sell us on that.

Name one deck that competes by playing 3-4x Astro and 0x Oko. Ban Oko and you tank Teferi use, Astro use, Veil use and Uro use. (UWR Mentor is, like every Mentor deck, inherently 2.5)

While I don't intend to drop (yet), I totally understand your point. Not sure where this is all going, and we'll see if it stands the test of time, but for now, I'm staying the course and trying to see things from positive perspective...

That said, my biggest mtg passion in recent years has been Premodern (also vintage, but I'm afraid it's facing similar problems as legacy). It may just be the thing you are looking for... https://premodernmagic.com/

I like the companions a lot, and lurrus definitely goes within 2 months. They just need to sell their stock first. However, Pre-Inn is very fun too. You don't need to choose just one...

I still stand by Trinity. It makes Yorion a much worst card and Lurrus will get the axe anyway.

As for alternative formats, I've also been thinking of a no-supplemental sets format. The following cards would be illegal:

* True Name Nemesis
* Arcum's Astrolabe
* Force of Negation
* Scavenging Ooze
* Recruiter of the Guard
* Baleful Strix
* Lorescale Coatl
* Palace Jailer
* Containment Priest
* Council's Judgment
* Hogaak Arisen Necropolis
* Urza, Lord high Artificer
* Dead of Winter
* Leovold Emissary of Trest
* Dack Fayden
* Retrofitter Foundry
* Force of Vigor
* Wrenn & Six
* Collector Ouphe
* Giver of Runes
* Goblin Engineer
* Sanctum Prelate
* Arena Rector
* Sevinne's Reclamation
* Prismatic Vista
* Flusterstorm
* Titania, Protector of Argoth
* Fiery Confluence
* Coercive Portal
* Scroll of Fate
* Shardless Agent
* etc
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* Imperial Recruiter
* Goblin Settler
* Grim Tutor

Most importantly: If they want to break eternal with broken new cards, force them to break standard too. Breaking standard too often will cause player attrition in their bread-and-butter format so they will be more careful with standard. WOTC can get away with any form of power creep in Battlebond or Modern Horizons as it won't affect standard's health and therefore the company's bottom line.

Does this also apply to portal cards and others that were never in standard? Imperial recruiter, grim tutor, Goblin settler?

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

Does this also apply to portal cards and others that were never in standard? Imperial recruiter, grim tutor, Goblin settler?

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Yes, I think that's the most elegant and easy to remember rule which is important when explaining the format to other people.

It would also be in the spirit of that format to ban the Companion mechanic as it makes the format look like Commander and all the Commander legal supplemental sets are banned.

Not interested in splintering the format into a bunch of small variant playgroups that can't be played competitively on MTGO and aren't sanctioned in paper

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Originally Posted by Captain Hammer

Underworld Breach, Wrenn and Six, 3eferi, Oko, Veil of Summer, but most egregiously the Companions are a breaking point. Magic is power creeping too damn much and too damn fast.

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Dude, I played Magic during Mirrodin block. This isn't Mirrodin block.

This is the B&R thread but with extra steps.

If this devolves into another ban thread, I'll lock it up. As long as its just a discussion about the future of Legacy, it should be fine.

For now the only option is to wait it out. Nobody is playing paper magic tournaments right now, so when gatherings are allowed again we'll see if there is enough support to continue the format in paper.

The amount of hypothetical Nostalgia Formats is almost innumerable.

If you think this one really has legs, go for it. Personally, I'll take something of the churn though over the stagnation. Obviously I want something in between, but I think Wizards has pretty clearly staked out the territory, it either is the deluge or the desert.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

For now the only option is to wait it out. Nobody is playing paper magic tournaments right now, so when gatherings are allowed again we'll see if there is enough support to continue the format in paper.

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We all know the answer to the support question, unfortunately.

The more pressing concern is how many game stores survive, given their effectively obsolete financial model.

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Originally Posted by Fox

Name one deck that competes by playing 3-4x Astro and 0x Oko. Ban Oko and you tank Teferi use, Astro use, Veil use and Uro use. (UWR Mentor is, like every Mentor deck, inherently 2.5)

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I don't know about tanking the playability of those other very powerful cards just because Oko gets banned. All of those were pretty playable (besides Uro obviously) before Oko came around

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Originally Posted by Fox

Name one deck that competes by playing 3-4x Astro and 0x Oko. Ban Oko and you tank Teferi use, Astro use, Veil use and Uro use. (UWR Mentor is, like every Mentor deck, inherently 2.5)

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Painter.

Here's a format idea:

Legacy but no companions or plainswalkers.

Captain Hammer, I recommend playing what's available and what you like. If you want to push an offshoot of Legacy, go for it. Legacy will go through a number of changes for as long as it remains a format, and some of those phases might be appealing. If they aren't, we can explore other card pools. I've had plenty of good times with Old School and Hextended, and I imagine I would enjoy a Pre-War format or a Pre-Innistrad format as well. As long as a format is varied, balanced, and interesting, it's probably fun to play.

I feel you man. i've for the most part stopped playing Legacy and switched to Premodern over a year ago. Premodern games have way more of the "magic" of MtG that got me hooked in the first place. I miss a couple of cards I like, but overall I think the card pool is very well thought out and managed.

I just don't get the appeal of these closed formats. If you want to play a format that already been solved there's always chess.

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

I just don't get the appeal of these closed formats. If you want to play a format that already been solved there's always chess.

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I think it's naive to think that Legacy has ever been anything but a solved format. Unsolved formats don't have pillars, and legacy definitely has pillars that the format wraps itself around. Sure it changes on occasion, but ideally over a long progression of time that means more decks are becoming viable to adapt rather than fewer. If anything, I'm in the camp that I want Legacy to be solved for longer, rather than shorter, lengths of time. Every new set creates a massive shift with ensuing chaos. I'm all for new playable cards, cards that enable new combos, and ways of making games more interesting. I absolutely LOVE how Thassa's Oracle has brought Doomsday back into playability. It's awesome that Dreadhorde Arcanist has become a key threat in URx delver variants.

Now let's shift to the unhealthy changes: Underworld Breach, Lurrus, and even 'Oko' (which I will use as the name for the PW power creep.) Small Teferi, Karn the Great Creator, and Oko are three examples of PW's that were pushed to their absolute limit on mana efficiency-to-power ratio. Lurrus is included in between 55-75% (roughly) of decks that perform well currently. Underworld Breach warped the format into 'best deck + decks that hate it'.

If I were to summarize, I'd say Legacy players are mostly ok with a solved format, we just want that format to have as many options as possible.