Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
Good luck with this man! I can't wait to play once it's done.
You should truly get the birds of paradise, it's an investment and you'll always want one. Get it !
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kingsey
Good luck with this man! I can't wait to play once it's done.
I'm hoping to have a usable pile by the end of the year, if not sooner! Since I'm not using proxies, we can get Karl to sanction our draft to build up planeswalker points!!! :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kingsey
You should truly get the birds of paradise, it's an investment and you'll always want one. Get it !
As soon as I have $400 lying around that wouldn't be better spent on anything else, I'll look into buying one (!) copy...
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Here is the original 'usable pile' I constructed. :smile:
Beta - The Dark Cube Card List
White Cards (57)
Instant (9)
Sorcery (5) |
Enchantment (11) |
Creatures (31) |
|
Blue Cards (57)
Instant (10)
Sorcery (3) |
Enchantment (11) |
Creatures (33) |
|
Black Cards (57)
Instant (6)
Sorcery (6) |
Enchantment (7) |
Creatures (38) |
|
Red Cards (57)
Instant (6)
Sorcery (6) |
Enchantment (7) |
Creatures (38) |
|
Green Cards (57)
Instant (6)
Sorcery (7) |
Enchantment (10) |
Creatures (34) |
|
Multicolor Cards (16)
Rakdos (2)
Azorious (1) |
Selesnya (1)
Gruul (3) |
Dimir (2) |
Tri-Color (7) |
Artifacts (40)
0 CMC (3)
1 CMC (6) |
2 CMC (5)
3 CMC (9) |
4 CMC (10) |
5 CMC (4)
6 CMC (3) |
Non-Basic Lands (19)
Legendary (4) |
Core (11) |
Utility (3) |
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
Amazing project and I really love it. I'm looking forward the pictures!
Also, as a firm believer in "lets not waste money" doctrine, I recommend Unlimited whenever possible. If the white boarders pester you too much, you may always support your local friendly alterer who'll bb-ize your cards for the fraction of real betas' cost, and he may be nice enough to take care of the white dots if you'll give him a chocolade, cigar or w/e his favourite joy. ;)
Otoh, beta-only will be extremely nice.
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
There's probably a couple of issues you'll have to sort out with this project.
For starters, green. Green is terrible in these sets. It's supposed to be - among other things - the color of ramp and fatties, but the fatties are mostly bad, saddled with hideous drawbacks, and/or die to the format's flagship cheap removal. Actually, pretty much all of the fatties are bad in these sets. You've got Serra Angel, Sengir Vampire, Shivan Dragon, Mahamoti Djinn, and...um...Craw Wurm? The Legends common and uncommon legendaries are probably some of the best beef players can run.
Second, removal. You've got some incredibly powerful one-for-ones, like Terror, Bolt, Chain Lightning, and StP. Then you've got efficient sweepers like Disk and WoG. The problem is that after all that, the removal that's left is hot garbage. Green has zero actually playable removal and blue has basically just Unsummon. Red has some burn spells and Fissure, which is probably sufficient since most of the 3+ toughness guys are crap. White has Swords and WoG, but after that its "removal" is just damage prevention/redirection effects unless you want to run Balance. Black has Terror and not much else.
So, yeah, I could see the format quickly devolving into ground stalls between weenie armies since fatties will either die at the drop of a hat or be unplayably awful out of the gates. If you can solve that problem, though, it should be a fun cube.
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
BDP - As a last resort, I'll take a sharpie to some revised cards. :cool:
Aggro Zombies - Thank you for the constructive concerns! I am certain you are right. Since these sets were not designed with limited in mind, it will take effort to craft a cube from the available card pool that has a balance. My goal is for the pool to allow players to construct a deck that will win or lose before they get tired of playing. Ground stalls are awful!
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ace/Homebrew
BDP - As a last resort, I'll take a sharpie to some revised cards. :cool:
Aggro Zombies - Thank you for the constructive concerns! I am certain you are right. Since these sets were not designed with limited in mind, it will take effort to craft a cube from the available card pool that has a balance. My goal is for the pool to allow players to construct a deck that will win or lose before they get tired of playing. Ground stalls are awful!
In your place I'd go for ABU - Alliances.
It will have the amazing old school look, but you'll get some more removal like Incinerate, Dark Banishing, Feast or Famine, Contagion, Reprisal, Exile and tools like Binding Grasp + Crown of Ages. Several more green beef enter the scene too, be it Autumn Willow, Lhurgoyf and... uhm... well... Johtull Wurm, Deadly Insect, Hungry Mist and Yavimaya Ants. :cool:
In fact it hurts me that Sloshthedark is such a pussy. I'd love to play me some Old School. :tongue::laugh:
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
I initially determined the card pool based on the copyright line at the bottom of the card. All the cards from Beta through The Dark share the same style. Once you go from Fallen Empires on, there is an extra line of copyright text. That certainly isn't the best reason to draw a line, so I am open to the idea of expanding the range but not until after I explored the possibility of keeping it to these 5 sets.
Looking through Beta I was actually surprised at how much direct damage the old cards allow for. There is usually a drawback or it is just pinging, but there's quite a few. Same with combat tricks.
Blaze of Glory
Swords to Plowshares
Wrath of God
Pirate Ship
Prodigal Sorcerer
Psionic Blast
Unsummon
Drain Life
Paralyze
Pestilence
Royal Assassin
Terror
Weakness
Earthbind
Earthquake
Fireball
Lightning Bolt
Orcish Artillery
Camouflage
Cockatrice
Hurricane
Thicket Basilisk
Nevinyrral's Disk
Rod of Ruin
That's just in Beta, so we'll see...
I took a look at green's creature selection after Aggro Zombies mentioned how weak it is. It is pretty sad... :cry:
Spent about $500 in credit on stuff this morning. I'm most excited about getting a Lord of the Pit!
Question for those who have already figured this kind of thing out:
How many basic lands do you need for a cube?
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ace/Homebrew
Question for those who have already figured this kind of thing out:
How many basic lands do you need for a cube?
I have 50 of each sleeved up and I've never run out of anything for an 8-man pod. You could probably get away with less though - if you figure there are 2 drafters of each color at the table, and possibly a 3rd guy running a splash that's probably about 25 or so lands needed per color (11 per drafter and 3 for the splash). If you're trying to support mono-colored decks you might need more (~17 per drafter).
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Davran
(~17 per drafter).
Right!
8 x 17
Duh... :wink:
I think my goal to start will be 10 lands of each art.
Thanks D!
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ace/Homebrew
Right!
8 x 17
Duh... :wink:
I think my goal to start will be 10 lands of each art.
Thanks D!
That's what...30 per color? That's probably fine for an 8-man cube.
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
If you increae the cube to FEL and above, you'd get things like Aeolipile, SERRATED ARROWS, Flare... I think you should try the cube first to see how it works, and then if you'll realize it's not good enough, you may always expand it to FEL - ALL.
Btw, speaking of your limit: it's not exactly wrong, but neither it's necessary. You have old tap symbol in FEL. You got old school look and design from ABU to ALL. There are lots of possibilities. For the sake of playability, I'd go with ABU (ok, BU) to Alliances.
Frankly, I'd love to squeeze some of the Mirage cards, esp. fetchlands, but this is more about Old Scool Constructed than OS Limited. :)
Btw, I really miss those days. Magic was so much... well, not exactly better, definitely not, maybe not even nicer (lots of cards were woefully ugly),but it was different. Also, the joy of exploration...
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Davran
That's what...30 per color? That's probably fine for an 8-man cube.
At least to start... These lands are 3-4 bucks each. :rolleyes: That's $450 to 600 just on basic lands. :eek:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
If you increae the cube to FEL and above, you'd get things like Aeolipile, SERRATED ARROWS, Flare... I think you should try the cube first to see how it works, and then if you'll realize it's not good enough, you may always expand it to FEL - ALL.
Btw, speaking of your limit: it's not exactly wrong, but neither it's necessary. You have old tap symbol in FEL. You got old school look and design from ABU to ALL. There are lots of possibilities. For the sake of playability, I'd go with ABU (ok, BU) to Alliances.
Frankly, I'd love to squeeze some of the Mirage cards, esp. fetchlands, but this is more about Old Scool Constructed than OS Limited. :)
Btw, I really miss those days. Magic was so much... well, not exactly better, definitely not, maybe not even nicer (lots of cards were woefully ugly),but it was different. Also, the joy of exploration...
I got my first Magic cards when Revised came out. A lot of the packs I remember buying were from The Dark. I quit when Fallen Empires came out cause I realized they would just keep making more cards and I'd never be able to keep up. I was really happy with my mono-:u: deck and it did well in my meta (of 2 other friends). It frustrated me to think that my deck might get invalidated by new cards. I never got into any kind of competitive constructed, just living room floor Magic.
I got back into Magic after college when I saw that the card pool was so large, anything I could imagine was probably possible. I upgraded to living room table Magic, then LGS EDH, and finally Legacy.
I am hoping to capture the spirit of a modern draft (plenty of limited only filler with some intended synergy/strategy and the occasional bomb) with the nostalgia of the Magic I started with, except more pimp cause I have a job now. I also want to get this finished before starting a family cause I know all of my 'disposable income' will become 'kid expenses'.
This has also motivated me to go through EVERY card I own and sell it or give it to my LGS as bulk card board for a couple bucks in credit. It is somewhat theraputic to see the collection that once dominated my desk/shelf/floor space can now be neatly contained in one shelf of a bookcase and a backpack. :laugh:
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
This should help you:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...4-cube-shazaam
My advice, if you are unpowered, go farther than M94. I'm an M94 junkie, but adding FE and Ice Age blocks will add a lot more creatures into the mix. That said, be careful with black if Order of Ebon Hand, Necropotence, Black Knight, Twist, etc are all in the cube , as it can get out of hand really quickly (I'm looking at you Ritual).
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ace/Homebrew
I got my first Magic cards when Revised came out. A lot of the packs I remember buying were from The Dark. I quit when Fallen Empires came out cause I realized they would just keep making more cards and I'd never be able to keep up.
I want to write about this. Unfortunatel,y I don't have neither nor audience...
Go for ABU - Alliances. You'll really get so much more creatures and stuff (yes, you need to be careful with black, maybe exclude Necropotence), and you'll get pretty cheap lands even in black boarders. Oh, speaking of Ice Age: the painlands!
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mini1337s
This should help you:
Thank you mini1337s!! :smile:
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
Any progress on this? Since I linked you that, I've been doing a bunch of Cubetutor drafts of the Beta cube (http://cubetutor.com/draft/559). Would love to see what you've come up with.
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
After playing a lot of AAA draft I think Rb aggro is actually pretty OP. If you look at the mana efficiency of spells and creatures vs the rest of the format, you have:
Lightning Bolt
Terror
Fissure
Fireball
Disintegrate
Gauntlet of Might (this card is disgustingly good, making your creatures and X spells so much better, P1P1 and archetype-forcing)
Sol Ring
Mana Vault (these cards are strong in any deck, but so much stronger with the X burn and with the efficient 5-6 drops you can power out)
Firebreathing (actually pretty silly on any flyer or with Dwarven Warriors LOLOL)
Goblin Balloon Brigade (usually unplayable, but hilarious with Firebreathing and not bad with Goblin King and Gauntlet)
Ironclaw Orcs
Erg Raiders
Black Knight
Sedge Troll (stupid good for Limited. 3/3 regenerates for 2R?? in a format with Hill Giant??)
Granite Gargoyle
Hypnotic Specter (awkward to splash, but worth it)
Orcish Artillery (reusable removal = crazy advantage)
Uthden Troll
Dwarven Warriors (blue decks need to run Prodigal Sorcerer just to stop red decks from comboing this + Firebreathing)
Dragon Whelp
Roc of Kher Ridges
Juggernaut
Fire Elemental
Earth Elemental
Stone Giant
Two-Headed Giant of Foriys
Sengir Vampire
Shivan Dragon
Between that wide card pool, pretty easy to throw together a red-heavy aggro deck that actually would contend with a lot of modern day Limited decks.
Meanwhile other colors have limited removal options and not the greatest creatures outside of rares (green gets Grizzly and Giant Spider and Cockamouse, but come on now).
Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FTW
After playing a lot of AAA draft I think Rb aggro is actually pretty OP.
Thank you for sharing! I wouldn't have considered Dwarven Warriors. :smile:
Gauntlet, Sol Ring, and Mana Vault probably won't be a part of this cube though...
I believe I narrowed down what :r: cards I want to include! Here's what I'm thinking:
Instant (7)
3 Lightning Bolt
Blood Lust
Fork
Shatter
Fissure
Sorcery (7)
2 Disintegrate
2 Stone Rain
Earthquake
2 Chain Lightning
Enchantment (5)
Earthbind
2 Firebreathing
Orcish Oriflamme
Raging River
Creatures (36)
1 CMC (9)
2 Kird Ape
Goblin Digging Team
Goblins of the Flarg
2 Goblin Balloon Brigade
3 Mons's Goblin Raiders
2 CMC (1)
Rock Hydra
3 CMC (15)
Ball Lightning
Fire Drake
Brothers of Fire
Sisters of the Flame
Goblin Hero
Dwarven Demolition Team
Dwarven Warriors
Goblin King
Gray Ogre
Hurloon Minotaur
Orcish Artillery
Sedge Troll
Uthden Troll
Wall of Fire
Wall of Stone
4 CMC (7)
Mountain Yeti
2 Dragon Whelp
Hill Giant
Keldon Warlord
Roc of Kher Ridges
Stone Giant
5 CMC (3)
Fire Elemental
Earth Elemental
Two-Headed Giant of Foriys
6 CMC (1)
Shivan Dragon
That is 55 cards, which is what I currently have allotted for each color. Again, I'm looking for mostly 'limited' playable cards with the occasional bomb or nostalgic card.