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I found the best idea is to simply wait until you can combo through multiple counters. Usually this involves sculpting a hand with accel, chant, and a tendrils. There really isn't a need to win while you still have life points, so you can take a lot of time setting this up. Using this strategy, it's extremely easy to beat Threshold.
Uhm, sure if I can I take time before I start the combo, so I can build an optimal hand against opponent's counters, but there is a small critter called tarmogoyf that can do a small pressure and put an high clock... So often I can't wait all this time.
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I think you'll find Ill-Gotten Gains is a lot better if you are using Orim's Chant. It's extremely rare that you want to return Chant with Ill-Gotten Gains if you play like I suggested, but the ability to win against discard in the traditional manner of throwing artifacts down and then topdecking a tutor effect ftw is huge.
My english is bad, perhaps I don't succeed to explain what I think. Sorry. :confused:
For example: I play chant, my opponent counter it. Now I can play infernal tutor sacrificing LED and taking ill-gotten, but if I plan this project my opponent takes from grave FoW and other stuff and he can counter my key spell. So sometime for example if I can take orim, IT, cabal ritual from grave with ill-gotten but I haven't enough white mana for double orim. Yeah there are others ways I can take to win in these situations like EtW or infernal contract but you can try to consider those situations that are compromise (like e.e. on the table or I'm at 1 life) and I can only do a mortal ToA FTW.
I'm not a fan of EtW, especially in a more slow combo deck than TES or 2LB.
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I honestly don't understand the fascination with cards that don't use the graveyard. They all quite awful and completely unnecessary. In a deck with 10-12 cantrips, 8-14 tutor effects/large card draw spells, empty the warrens, 2-7 time walks^W^Wchant effects, uncounterable maindeck bounce, and multiple tendrils, it's extremely easy to ignore cards like Leyline of the Void, Extirpate Tormod's Crypt, Jotun Grunt, etc, etc.
Yeah, it's right. Often cards like tormod's, leyline aren't the problem. Especially postside when we can side in more bouncers effects. The problem is when these cards are supported by a wall of counters or other lock elements plus a fast clock.
For example against ichorid combo deck, leyline is not a great problem because we can bounce it and then start the combo. The problem is that we often spend a turn to remove leyline (mystical for chain,...) and with another turn my opponent can kill me.
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Diminishing Returns isn't used to circumvent the graveyard
You never play diminishing return for this reason. !? Perhaps I play wrong. But when I played TES and my opponent had into play tormod/leyline,.. I considered diminishing like a plan B instead of my sure win with my plan A via ill-gotten.
But here I don't like diminishing return.
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Pact of Negation has its place, it either protects the Orim's Chant or it protects 2 Tendrils, so if a deck had a fundamental turn of 2 with either plan, then Pact of Negation would be viable. The problem is that the deck isn't fast enough to exploit Pact of Negation, and the deck is slow enough, or land dense enough, to use Abeyance.
How many is pact of negation played? Is this a surprise card? Yeah and for this reason I can steal a game with it. I don't like abeyance because it requires 2 mana. Especially it requires white mana. Often I don't have mana for both orim and abeyance to start the combo and I can't wait to draw the second white to start. Sometimes the situation is this:
I: orim
he: FoW on orim
I: pact on FoW
he: FoW on orim
Now we have: 4 storm count, I spend 1 mana and 2 cards, my opponent spends 0 mana and 4 cards (all blue and often 1-2 are daze/stifle/snare).
Now often I can play easily the combo. If I play ill-gotten FTW I can take pact, ritual, IT and I play pact on his FoW he returned from grave without the need of other white mana (and if I'm using abeyance instead of orim in total I need 3 white mana! Too much!).
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Edit: Cutting Volcanic Island is bad, ETW is one of the deck's outs against a Chalice of the Void, and you have no way to produce red mana when it's set at zero.
Yeah perhaps it's right. I put again into the deck a red mana source.
Ok sorry for my english and for my tedious aromentations. :rolleyes: