Is Scepter-chant back?

So, minor history. Scepter-chant was a deck from WAAAAAY in the past, before pithing needle, before revoker, before counterbalance, before krosan grip, and yes, before abrupt decay.

Since the printing of Teferi, Time Raveler shoring up the lock and providing bounce for hate cards, I decided to give this deck another look.

Here's the test list:

The Combo//11
4 isochron scepter
4 orim's chant
3 Teferi, time raveler

Countermagic//11

4 force of will
4 spell pierce
3 counterspell

Advantage//13

4 brainstorm
4 ponder
3 narset, parter of veils
2 snapcaster mage

Removal//5

4 lightning bolt
1 council's judgement

lands//20

4 flooded strand
2 scalding tarn
1 arid mesa
4 islands
2 plains
3 tundra
4 volcanic island

sideboard//

4 red elemental blast
3 meddling mage
2 supreme verdict
2 swords to plowshares
1 council's judgement
2 pithing needle
1 surgical extraction


There's a number of directions in which to take the deck.

We can go black for discard to pair with teferi on people's draw steps, we can stay UW for consistency and further locks via back to basics in the board, or we can go the tried and true method of adding red for blasts/burn.

Do you want Red for Lightning Helix or Green for Weather the Storm and Moment's Peace?

A couple copies of Snap-Caster probably wouldn't be amiss either because he buys extra chant turns (or anything else)

Right now Jace is your only wincon, I think you want more options than that.

Tribute Mage?

Snapcaster Mage seems better than AK here.

4 Teferi seems like overkill, even if it's good with the lock. 3 should be enough.

What about some Myth Realized or Monastery Mentor or True-Name Nemesis as another win condition? If your only win is Jace, your games will get very long/tedious and boring.

This just makes me want to go all-in on panoptic mirror teferi's protection

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

What about some Myth Realized or Monastery Mentor or True-Name Nemesis as another win condition? If your only win is Jace, your games will get very long/tedious and boring.

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+1. Also the mighty quinn runs scepter chant, http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...y-Quinn/page72.

there's also the option to run a singleton teferi (the 2UUU guy). end step play him, and main phase play scepter.

It's funny, being away from the game for so long I've lost that ever important patience for the blue mirrors... Been losing a lot of games that I could've won with tighter play :(...

That being said, the deck still seems to be doing well despite the gross degree of pilot error.

There's definitely merit in the mighty quinn reference. I'll be delving into their forum to find silver bullets. It may be worth it to consider E. tutor in here, although it is painful for a blue deck to run card disadvantage.

I'm definitely open to trying mentor, currently testing true-name.

I feel like a good pilot could take this deck somewhere once it's polished.

Pure speculation here but Id feel bad about playing all in on scepter with the number of abrupt decays being played. Also, if you plan to play out teferi first, you’ll prob need more removal or snaps to recycle the temoval you do have.

Not to much Bug or B/G in my meta atm. Mostly combo decks and blue decks with a smidge of agro.

Editing the main list as we go along. I've added more countermagic to make the deck a lot more reactive, not sure if it's good or bad. I'm working out the wrinkles from my long hiatus and finally starting to win some games with the deck. I can't believe how rusty i've gotten lol.

I tried True-Name, he needs further testing. Added in the few snaps as was suggested, it just makes sense. Ty FTW. Right now the lock is the wincon of the deck though, which is both hilarious and sad.

I would test Mission Briefing, that card is sweet on a stick.

There are two isochron combos worth mentioning:
Scepter+dramatic reversal+2 non-land mana - infinite storm (if three artifacts, infinite mana also)
This could include Merchant scroll for both finding reversal and a win-con such as Pull from Tomorrow.

Scepter+noxious revival+Temporal mastery - infinite turns without draw (recuires a pw/snappy or 5 mana and continous cantrips)
This is kinda sweet with Brainstorm from TM.

not sure if it's worth mentioning, but it's pretty sweet with paradox engine.

let's you cast the spell for each 2 mana you have. (and if you do have ways to get 2 mana from non-land permanents you can cast the spell infinite times)

Bumping Narset up to 3, cutting the singleton preordain to go just a little bit bigger. Narset is a house.

Still testing, but the deck is continually improving in results. The lock is just lights out for most non-blue strategies, and our planeswalkers pressure blue to the extreme.

How do you kill at the moment? The 4 Bolts? Is that enough?

Also, can you make some repports of your testings?

Thank you aedemiel, I promise to get match ups/boarding information available as soon as I am confident in the results. The deck is still in it's infantile state, and it is incredibly difficult to pilot in some instances. The numbers and configurations are in flux, so sit tight.

But for some general notes i've made so far:

The win condition is the lock. The opponent will only be able to play lands if the lock is in full effect. It doesn't matter how we kill once the lock is established just as long as there is technically a way to win. I do agree, we still need another win-condition.

For matchups, the deck has an excellent blue and combo matchup as chant serves as additional countermagic in a lot of situations: "countering" rituals/entire combo turns and being a prelude to important counter-battles. Teferi and narset are incredible vs blue, generally giving us a decent edge. Teferi being great against problem permanants as a prelude to the scepter lock is also a huge boon to the archetype.

What the deck has been struggling against so far in testng has been hatebear strategies. You can steal games here with scepter/chant, but it's hard. Cards like Lavinia and phyrexian revoker are killer, as they both attack our planeswalkers and shut down isochron scepter. This has been leading me to think we need more anti-agro options post-board.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thefreakaccident

The win condition is the lock. The opponent will only be able to play lands if the lock is in full effect. It doesn't matter how we kill once the lock is established just as long as there is technically a way to win.

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That's a draw condition.

But what if they don't scoop to the lock? If you want wins in real life, not just in theory, you need to actually finish each match within the time limit without making critical play mistakes or getting too fatigued by the later rounds. You don't just need a theoretical kill somewhere, you need to end games. Have you tried any other win conditions?

Hatebears can be killed with StP, Bolt, and Snapcaster into removal. SB should have some board wipes like Supreme Verdict or Volcanic Fallout/Pyroclasm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thefreakaccident

Thank you aedemiel, I promise to get match ups/boarding information available as soon as I am confident in the results. The deck is still in it's infantile state, and it is incredibly difficult to pilot in some instances. The numbers and configurations are in flux, so sit tight.

But for some general notes i've made so far:

The win condition is the lock. The opponent will only be able to play lands if the lock is in full effect. It doesn't matter how we kill once the lock is established just as long as there is technically a way to win. I do agree, we still need another win-condition.

For matchups, the deck has an excellent blue and combo matchup as chant serves as additional countermagic in a lot of situations: "countering" rituals/entire combo turns and being a prelude to important counter-battles. Teferi and narset are incredible vs blue, generally giving us a decent edge. Teferi being great against problem permanants as a prelude to the scepter lock is also a huge boon to the archetype.

What the deck has been struggling against so far in testng has been hatebear strategies. You can steal games here with scepter/chant, but it's hard. Cards like Lavinia and phyrexian revoker are killer, as they both attack our planeswalkers and shut down isochron scepter. This has been leading me to think we need more anti-agro options post-board.

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Unexpectedly Absent on a stick should annihilate any "bear" type strategies. Porphyry Nodes is another option. As is Culling Scales

Speaking of which, have you thought about moving a Scepter to the board and adding in some number of Karn, the Great Creator? Would help a lot with matchup flexibility, provide another solid wincon, and give you some juice against stuff like hatebears. Might not be room, but if there is, seems like a great addition.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

That's a draw condition.

But what if they don't scoop to the lock? If you want wins in real life, not just in theory, you need to actually finish each match within the time limit without making critical play mistakes or getting too fatigued by the later rounds. You don't just need a theoretical kill somewhere, you need to end games. Have you tried any other win conditions?

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I appreciate your comment. You're right, the deck needs to fit a major kill somewhere. I've been leaning towards either mentor or true-name, they are both pretty good at closing out. The issues are space and cmc. We can't have too many 3 cmc's in the deck. Maybe narset needs to be cut/trimmed for a win con.

What do you think about that FTW?

@ Morgan, Karn is a very interesting card. I'm not too sure he'd fit in here, but he seems very interesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thefreakaccident

The issues are space and cmc. We can't have too many 3 cmc's in the deck. Maybe narset needs to be cut/trimmed for a win con.

What do you think about that FTW?

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Narset might be a safe place to trim. Could you find room for even 2 Monastery Mentor, True-Name Nemesis, or even a 1-of Luminarch Ascension? I thought you had Jace before too..

Is your only win now Scepter+Lightning Bolt? Bolt is great and doubles as a win condition but doesn't answer as many cards as StP.

What about something like this:


//Planeswalkers: 4
3 Teferi, Time Raveler
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

//Artifacts: 4
4 Isochron Scepter

//Spells: 27
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Orim's Chant
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
1 Council's Judgment

//Creatures: 5
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor

//Lands: 20
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Karakas
3 Island
2 Plains

//Sideboard: 15
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Disenchant
2 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroclasm

I like your list FTW, but I think I'd go:

-2 Monastery Mentor
-1 Isochron Scepter

+3 Karn, the Great Creator

-2 Scalding Tarn
-2 Arid Mesa
-1 Volcanic Island
-2 Tundra
-1 Island
-1 Plains

+4 Prismatic Vista
+1 Snow-Covered Island
+1 Snow-Covered Plains
+1 Field of the Dead
+1 Mountain
+1 Snow-Covered Mountain

This gives you a more diversified and better protected set of win-cons (Karn can get Crucible from the board in the face of Wastelands, or grab and animate for the attack any artifact once you've got the lock going) and doesn't open you up to the same degree of suddenly making your opponents' Fatal Pushes and Swords to Plowshares relevant again like Mentor does.