Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
.dk
That's a weird list - it looks like some bizarro update from lists about 2-3 years ago.
I don't get the second scrubland. That seems odd - probably because of Mentor, but I'd still rather it be a Sea. Petals make white just fine.
Chrome Mox in general isn't needed - there is data somewhere in this thread (from a couple years ago) that Acclimation and I gathered over hundreds of games, that IMO basically tells you that you're only gaining about 1% less chance of fizzling by running a Chrome Mox. The second we didn't gather data on - but it's just SO bad pre-combo, I'm not sure why you would want it.
I like Unmask in this deck a lot (when you're running 3-4 Griselbrands anyway) these days, and they can essentially take the place of Thoughtseize. And I don't see a good reason to not run Collective Brutality or Tendrils maindeck either. Collective Brutality has a lot more utility at very little functional cost (just time) over Tendrils, so I would run that.
^Agreed 98%, I disagree on the chrome mox but I am playing a different deck which may rely on it as a crutch.
I like running 4 griselbrands just because that is a card we need to enter the grave one way or another. I wasn't sure if the 2 of was a UB thing.
I found that you didn't need both emrakul and tendrils to win, but emrakul aids the tendrils win. Which lead me to the conclusion of not wanting tendrils in my 75. Then I played against lands and was locked out by glacial chasm. A tendrils effect (life loss) is absolutely necessary for corner cases like this, but with collective brutality I don't see a reason to run tendrils anymore, at least for the time being.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kobra_D
^Agreed 98%, I disagree on the chrome mox but I am playing a different deck which may rely on it as a crutch.
I like running 4 griselbrands just because that is a card we need to enter the grave one way or another. I wasn't sure if the 2 of was a UB thing.
I found that you didn't need both emrakul and tendrils to win, but emrakul aids the tendrils win. Which lead me to the conclusion of not wanting tendrils in my 75. Then I played against lands and was locked out by glacial chasm. A tendrils effect (life loss) is absolutely necessary for corner cases like this, but with collective brutality I don't see a reason to run tendrils anymore, at least for the time being.
Well, I can't say on your RB deck, but the data was pretty clear for tin fins - chrome mox isn't needed.
I wouldn't play tendrils either - my only point was that you want SOMETHING in that slot. Tendrils is passable - collective brutality is better.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
.dk
Well, I can't say on your RB deck, but the data was pretty clear for tin fins - chrome mox isn't needed.
I wouldn't play tendrils either - my only point was that you want SOMETHING in that slot. Tendrils is passable - collective brutality is better.
I always played assuming I needed them in my 60. But that was always just because that's what I did. My whole world is upside down now, thanks .dk.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kobra_D
I always played assuming I needed them in my 60. But that was always just because that's what I did. My whole world is upside down now, thanks .dk.
Before Collective Brutality was printed, I do think it was needed at least somewhere in the 75 to get around weird corner case things. Collective Brutality does ALMOST all of the same, but has more utility. Things it doesn't do:
1. Win with natural storm count into Tendrils through weird hate
2. Win super fucking fast so you can go get food
But it does everything else, bins a griselbrand through countermagic, discards additional countermagic from their hand to resolve shallow grave, and kills deathrite shaman. seems way fucking worth it to me.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
.dk
2. Win super fucking fast so you can go get food
It does however generate epic amounts of salt, which is nice if the food at the venue is under seasoned. Make sure you stay really hydrated though.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Richard Cheese
It does however generate epic amounts of salt, which is nice if the food at the venue is under seasoned. Make sure you stay really hydrated though.
You're getting magic venue snack bar food: it's made of 97% salt already. CoBru is spicy - balances out the saltiness.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
My auto include was for chrome mox, I never really considered playing without them.
I agree on the CoBru. I didn't immediately value the card when it was first printed but my opinion changed as soon as I played with it. It resides as a 2 of at the moment in my main. It's great but I don't necessarily want 4 2mana interuption spells.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kobra_D
My auto include was for chrome mox, I never really considered playing without them.
I agree on the CoBru. I didn't immediately value the card when it was first printed but my opinion changed as soon as I played with it. It resides as a 2 of at the moment in my main. It's great but I don't necessarily want 4 2mana interuption spells.
Ahhh gotcha. Misunderstood.
And yes, I would tend to agree that you don't want a playset of those as well.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Morning all,
I'm slowly finding more pieces to get a rough list together in paper, as this seems/looks like so much fun!
Had a question though. In the absence of having an Emrakul, is there a substitute? As in, would one of the other OG titans with the shuffle effect still allow for the loop but not necessarily the alpha strike?
I'm in a weird situation where i randomly have a foil Children of Korlis but not a single Reanimate, so chipping away at obtaining bits and curious about potential alternatives.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NedB37
Morning all,
I'm slowly finding more pieces to get a rough list together in paper, as this seems/looks like so much fun!
Had a question though. In the absence of having an Emrakul, is there a substitute? As in, would one of the other OG titans with the shuffle effect still allow for the loop but not necessarily the alpha strike?
I'm in a weird situation where i randomly have a foil Children of Korlis but not a single Reanimate, so chipping away at obtaining bits and curious about potential alternatives.
The shuffle effect from the other original titans will work just the same, they're just worse creatures to attack with.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Undomian
The shuffle effect from the other original titans will work just the same, they're just worse creatures to attack with.
Sure! I'll keep chipping away at the pieces of the puzzle, then :) Cheers!
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NedB37
Sure! I'll keep chipping away at the pieces of the puzzle, then :) Cheers!
While the shuffle effect is one aspect, you can't 1 shot your opponent by attacking with Griselbrand and a non-Emrakul titan on T1. She's the only one with 13+ power.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Recently been playing more Tin Fins and have been doing surprisingly well. Went 3-1 last week, beating all 3 blue decks I faced and lost to a weird colorless stax deck. The Mentor plan has been decent post board but I want a more consistent way to find them as early as possible. Someone had mentioned JVP and I was wondering if a 2-of in the board would supplement that. It digs for Mentor, then recasts spells for Prowess triggers, and Mentor tokens are great at keeping him alive. As a neat bonus, we can Shallow Grave, and flip him immediately to ignore the exile clause. You could even -3 targeting Shallow Grave, let Jace die, reanimate, flip, and cast another spell. Definitely a cutesy play but it sounds quite fun, and that’s half the reason we play Fins right?
I typically board in 4 Mentor, some number of Flusterstorm and Stp, and a extra land, boarding out the entire combo save for 1 Griselbrand, 2 Reanimates, 3 Shallow Graves, and 2 Entombs.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
supachai
Recently been playing more Tin Fins and have been doing surprisingly well. Went 3-1 last week, beating all 3 blue decks I faced and lost to a weird colorless stax deck. The Mentor plan has been decent post board but I want a more consistent way to find them as early as possible. Someone had mentioned JVP and I was wondering if a 2-of in the board would supplement that. It digs for Mentor, then recasts spells for Prowess triggers, and Mentor tokens are great at keeping him alive. As a neat bonus, we can Shallow Grave, and flip him immediately to ignore the exile clause.
I typically board in 4 Mentor, some number of Flusterstorm and Stp, and a extra land, boarding out the entire combo save for 1 Griselbrand, 2 Reanimates, 3 Shallow Graves, and 2 Entombs.
A singleton JVP as an Entomb target can be excellent out of the sideboard (or possibly main deck). He's works incredibly well with Shallow Grave and Goryo's Vengeance. I typically wouldn't want more than 1, as he is very vulnerable if you're not reanimating him with either of those 2 spells. Having to untap with him is a pretty big risk though (same problem with Bob out of the sideboard though, really, except he is still fine in multiples). And you basically never want to see the second one. I could easily see something like 4 Mentor, 1 JVP, 1-2 Bob out of the sideboard.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Glad to hear the sentiment on JVP. I think I will try this out. Some initial goldfishing seems positive. Sometimes an extra BS/Ponder or removal spell is all you really need to pull ahead. Also testing EE in the board in place of an Echoing Truth. Any suggestions on what my last SB slot should be? Ideally it should be something that handles hatepieces-Disenchent, Seal of Cleansing, Echoing Truth, EE.
//Creatures
3 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Children of Korlis
//Instants
4 Entomb
4 Dark Ritual
4 Brainstorm
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
//Sorceries
4 Ponder
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
2 Reanimate
//Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal
//Lands
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
1 Swamp
1 Island
//Sideboard
SB: 4 Monastery Mentor
SB: 3 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Serenity
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Plains
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
.dk
While the shuffle effect is one aspect, you can't 1 shot your opponent by attacking with Griselbrand and a non-Emrakul titan on T1. She's the only one with 13+ power.
Sure, that was in my initial question :) Thanks, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NedB37
...As in, would one of the other OG titans with the shuffle effect still allow for the loop but not necessarily the alpha strike?
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
supachai
Glad to hear the sentiment on JVP. I think I will try this out. Some initial goldfishing seems positive. Sometimes an extra BS/Ponder or removal spell is all you really need to pull ahead. Also testing EE in the board in place of an Echoing Truth. Any suggestions on what my last SB slot should be? Ideally it should be something that handles hatepieces-Disenchent, Seal of Cleansing, Echoing Truth, EE.
//Creatures
3 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Children of Korlis
//Instants
4 Entomb
4 Dark Ritual
4 Brainstorm
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
//Sorceries
4 Ponder
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
2 Reanimate
//Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal
//Lands
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
1 Swamp
1 Island
//Sideboard
SB: 4 Monastery Mentor
SB: 3 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Serenity
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Plains
Given that you're running 2 Collective Brutality main deck, not sure that 3 STP are necessary in the board. I could see cutting those to 2, and running 2 Chain of Vapor in your last slots.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
.dk
Given that you're running 2 Collective Brutality main deck, not sure that 3 STP are necessary in the board. I could see cutting those to 2, and running 2 Chain of Vapor in your last slots.
I like that suggestion. I think I want to keep at least 3 outs to Chalice, since that is fairly prevalent in my meta (or at least I always seem to run into it), so I might just go -1 Swords, +1 Chain, and keep the EE for now. EE doubles as removal on small creatures too.
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
How is Chain of Vapor an answer to chalice? Are people putting it on zero?
Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DNSolver
How is Chain of Vapor an answer to chalice? Are people putting it on zero?
I've beaten chalice on 1 multiple times with 2 cmc spells, so a stompy player may go chalice on 2 if they have the chance. But that being said, I don't think it is particularly likely of a scenario and would not be bringing in chain of vapor to answer CotV.
