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I mentioned this in the nic fit thread, but I want to brew a deck around Seagate stormcaller and neoform.
What is the best combo involving 2 3 cmc creatures? Opposition agent plus merelen is a hard lock if ahead but loses to any removal in hand or a big board. Spike feeder plus heliod is infinite life but both cards are so bad by themselves. Infinite life is also not amazing vs Jtms/oracle/eldrazi...
Surely I’m missing something?
Edit: Cephalid Breakfast is no good.
Double Combat Celebrant can win if you untap but is pretty weak.
You can break past 2 creatures with Dualcaster Mage, but there doesn't seems to be a way to turn a pile of copies of it into a win at cmc3 creatures.
They have to cost exactly three due to wording of neoform
It sounds very similar to the old Birthing Pod deck from Modern, which unfortunately requires 3 cards to make it happen (Viscera Seer, Melira, and Murdurous Redcap.)
So if I'm reading this correct, you Neoform a Seagate Stormcaller and get two 'Pod' activations, one that gives you a 3-drop. With no other creatures you get a 4-drop, or you can rip one of your other creatures (I'm assuming a creature-heavy deck) to make a combo. There is a lot of value you can generate, but I don't know about a game winning combo on the spot. Probably the strongest conditional 3-drop is Magus of the Moon. Geralf's Messenger into Thought-Knot Seer seems pretty fun, but not really at legacy power level. There's also the 3-drop elf that tutors a creature card with converted cost 6 or more, can't remember the name...it's a staple in the older Nic Fit lists that played Primeval Titan or Grave Titan as their upper end.
I guess you can run dualcasters + clones -> Nantuko Husk + Mogis's Marauder, but that's hardly compelling.
The copied neoform copies the values on the first one and does not require an additional sacrifice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
You get 2 3drops no matter what. (Assuming your sacrifice the Seagate instead of some other creature you had already).
The sack is part of the cost, so you get two three drops that stay in play. (And, any number of dualcaster mages you want to bring out before that.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
I was thinking of this. Glasspool mimic lowers the opportunity cost of running a bunch of clones. But Lutri won’t work so you need three bad, off colour cards at least. Hell raiser goblin plus combat celebrant is an alternative.Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus
If that's the case, I think the correct play is double Boggart Ram-Gang. Vroom vroom!
EDIT:Fierce Empath was the card I was trying to remember. If you're doing Nic Fit, having a way to build up fat dudes seems good to me.
How about the following pile
4 Aether Vial
4 Sea Gate Stormcaller
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Dualcaster Mage
4 Glasspool Mimic
1 Hellraiser Goblin
1 Combat Celebrant
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Veil of Summer
4 Once Upon a Time
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Island
4 Neoform
Absolutely no interaction of any kind but at least your combo is protected lol
Don't forget that there are 2 3cmc creatures that give haste to your creatures:
Hellraiser Goblin
Tuktuk Rubblefort
So copying a bunch of dual caster mages is still a valid combo kill (The last two copies of neoform can each get a haste enabler I think to beat a removal).
I’m not sure I want something so all in. The strength of the combo is that both neoform and sea gate stormcaller are amazing fair cards in a bug nic fit shell. Perhaps I just do a combo with good fair cards like Liliana, heretic healer plus uro.
Yeah, I think that's going to be where you end up if playing a couple of Dualcaster Mages is already too much for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
Lutri -> Lutri -> Volrath's Shapeshifter -> Loyal Retainers (sac for Lutri), sac Shapeshifter for Lutri lets you get an ETB trigger with Volrath's Shapeshifter, but then also copy the loyal retainer ability so it nets +1 copy of Neoform on the stack. Using two of those three for 2x Liliana Heretical Healer sets up an infinite sacrifice loop with the retainers. That leaves one Neorform for Hissing Iguanar as a payoff.
I tried building around this interaction for a while. I ran BUG, with aether vial and maralen + opposition agent. But i found the lock to be too weak. A single removal spell letting opponent tutor for anything just killed me to many times, and early flipped delvers made the lifeloss from maralen hurt to much. I did play 1 oko (this was before the ban) and one uro to kind of offset the life loss, but it was often not enough.
A really cool trick was if you had double neoform and went T1 veteran explorer, T2 neoform get island forest and stormcaller, neoform again to get the combo.
I did plan on instead trying skill borrower + boggart harbringer to put kiki-jiki on top and make a bunch of copies of skill borrower, then target boggart harbringer again to get mogg fanatic. But it felt like to many bad cards in the deck and it would suck to draw them, so it never happened.