Thought Experiment

So this idea came to me when I finally got around to updating my Vintage Wheels deck after the Gitaxian Probe restriction.

I was wondering how much of a favorite I would be at GP Vegas if I were allowed to play this deck, when everyone else was preparing for the Legacy GP as if it were a normal GP.

Basically I'm just curious about the following: Someone comes up to you and says "Hey, you can play in the Legacy Main event and you are allowed to use the Vintage B&R list, but you have to win the entire thing or insert whatever bad scenario you choose happens to you. (I figured the pure Vintage BR would be better than a weird hybrid combo BR where probe/brainstorm/ponder unrestricted since it would keep your deck full vintage).

What Vintage deck would perform best for the Legacy meta? What do you decide to play and why?

Either Dredge of Shops, I guess. Legacy doesn't have enough hate for either.

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Originally Posted by Julian23

Either Dredge of Shops, I guess. Legacy doesn't have enough hate for either.

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Probably true. Both are broken as fuck I'm just curious if they would be the best choice to have to go 13-2 (or better) to make top 8. My initial thought was something like TPS or some storm/gush deck that supports forces. Mainly because I could see both decks getting randomly screwed by non-blue variance or even not be able to race a t1 delver once or get stomped by a skilled Ant pilot

Although Vintage dredge knowing it only has to really prep for deathrites and surgicals as the hate would probably be laughable

Oath is probably best since it would have less chance to die to oops all cheese and other t0 wins. I'd personally play 4 top predict miracles just to trigger legacy players PTSD

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Originally Posted by contra

Oath is probably best since it would have less chance to die to oops all cheese and other t0 wins. I'd personally play 4 top predict miracles just to trigger legacy players PTSD

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Nah, just play Dredge with Forces and Missteps.

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1st - Daniel Gómez Blanco - Fowchorid
Maindeck:
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Petrified Field
1 Riftstone Portal
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Dragonlord Kolaghan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return
4 Force of Will
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mental Misstep
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Serum Powder
Sideboard:
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Vampire Hexmage

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You'd probably be about 90% versus the field.

I am biased as all fuck, but likely Shops. There are few decks that can match Shops once the spheres start locking the game down.

If you told me I had to play a deck though and where not threatening me with something terrible, I would likely play Kevin Cron's Paradoxical Storm. Mentor, Paradoxical Outcome and Force backed up with Mental Misstep. I think that could hold its own in Legacy without much of a problem.

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Originally Posted by H

Nah, just play Dredge with Forces and Missteps.

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I have built that before, it's very boring to play.

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Originally Posted by H

Nah, just play Dredge with Forces and Missteps.

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nah, gy hate is just as strong in legacy as vintage, and maybe even more prominent.

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Originally Posted by contra

nah, gy hate is just as strong in legacy as vintage, and maybe even more prominent.

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No, it's not. In Vintage it's common to start at 6 pieces of grave hate and move up from there. Vintage Dredge, expescially with the Dark Depths transformational sideboard, would be outrageously broken in Legacy.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

No, it's not. In Vintage it's common to start at 6 pieces of grave hate and move up from there. Vintage Dredge, expescially with the Dark Depths transformational sideboard, would be outrageously broken in Legacy.

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no doubt it'd be broken, but legacy has the same gy hate available as vintage. Leyline hits just as hard coming from 1.5 as it does from vintage.

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Originally Posted by contra

no doubt it'd be broken, but legacy has the same gy hate available as vintage. Leyline hits just as hard coming from 1.5 as it does from vintage.

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I agree that the access is the same, but the penetration is not. I can sit down across from someone in Vintage and expect that their sideboard has 10 cards set aside for Shops/Dredge and then the rest. They will have hate for Dredge. Everyone will.

Legacy, you have the same access to cards, but the amount of cards you would expect to face will be significantly lower. Sure, Leyline exists, but I would be suprised if 1 deck in 15 has a playset in their 75 in Legacy. Would would be suprised if that number is lower than 1 in 4 in Vintage.

I don't think Dredge or Shops would even drop a game in a legacy event.

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Originally Posted by contra

nah, gy hate is just as strong in legacy as vintage, and maybe even more prominent.

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2-3 pieces of interaction is not enough to beat dredge.

What's Squee for in that Dredge list?

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Originally Posted by contra

nah, gy hate is just as strong in legacy as vintage, and maybe even more prominent.

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I guess you have never seen what a turn 1 Bazaar does.

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Originally Posted by Moosedog

I don't think Dredge or Shops would even drop a game in a legacy event.

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That was my initial thought as well, but when I started thinking about it more I'm not entirely sure how well either could handle Show and Chimp. Mainly because yea dredge is impossible to interact with, but every turn 1 is still only laying down a bazaar and passing. That's why I guessed that a more traditional "broken" deck that was playing discard and fow like a tendrils list might work best in a purely legacy tourney.

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Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook

That was my initial thought as well, but when I started thinking about it more I'm not entirely sure how well either could handle Show and Chimp. Mainly because yea dredge is impossible to interact with, but every turn 1 is still only laying down a bazaar and passing. That's why I guessed that a more traditional "broken" deck that was playing discard and fow like a tendrils list might work best in a purely legacy tourney.

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Yeah but you could run a build that runs unmask maindeck and have turn one interaction

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Originally Posted by Rampart

Yeah but you could run a build that runs unmask maindeck and have turn one interaction

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Dredge actually has a ton of free slots that they can use to tune what they want to be best against. Unmask, Force of Will, Mental Misstep, and Leyline of the Void are all played in various lists (some maindeck, some sideboard).

I'd probably play dredge, but I'd be sorely tempted to run Burning Oath. I'm a sucker for Yawgmoth's Will. While not a current tier 1 deck, I think it's actually better suited to the metagame than something like a DPS without probe or Paradoxical Storm. For that matter, I don't know many decks that can reliably beat a handful of tutors, Oath of Druids, 4 Forbidden Orchard, and Forces/Thoughtseizes/Missteps. The highest win percentage would probably be something that minimizes the likelihood of dropping games to a stray belcher deck.