Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
What does Legacy need? More complete different archetypes!
That’s the reason why I’m searching for a very non-blue hard prison control deck. I recognized, that there is no effective enchantment removal and was always been in love with Moat and Humility. I realized that most of the decks can’t win anymore, if Moat and Humility is on the board.
http://bildung-bedeutet-freiheit.de/humiliation2.png
I like the option to be safe in every situation, that’s the reason why Elspeth is the perfect win-condition, because she is very hard to remove. To get her back I found Mistveil Plains, which I also wanted to get back, if needed. That’s the reason why I added Life from the Loam, which has perfect synergy with Scroll Rack even if the Tax is broken.
Here is my last list (which should be posted at TC Decks in the next days)
// Lands
4 Plains
3 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Windswept Heath
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Savannah
4 Wasteland
1 Forest
// Spells
4 Mox Diamond
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Scroll Rack
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Humility
3 Moat
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Council's Judgment
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Life from the Loam
4 Land Tax
1 Runed Halo
1 Rune of Protection: Red
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Leyline of Sanctity
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Sterling Grove
SB: 1 Jester's Cap
SB: 1 Rule of Law
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Nevermore
Here are my sideboarding notes:
Mircales/Blade
+ 2 Grove + Never + Cap - Rune - 3 Prison
Grixis Control
+ 3 Leyline + Cap - 3 Prison - Rune
ANT/TES
+ 3 Leyline + Cap + Rule + 3 Cage + 3 Extract + 2 Grove + Never
- 3 Humility - ORing - 2 Judgement - 4 StoP - 2 Spy - Rune - Tax
Eldrazi/ Death and Taxes/Humans/Maverick
+ Cap + Never + 2 Grove + Spy - Leyline - Rune - Halo - Rack - Tax
Mono Red Prison
+ 3 Leyline + Cap - 2 Spy - Rack - Tax
Depths
+ Cap + 2 Grove - Rune - Leyline - Judgement
Lands/Loam
+ Cap + 3 Extract + 2 Grove - Rune - 3 Prison - Judgement - Rack
Sneak and Show
+ Never + Cap + Spy - Leyline - Rack - Rune
Reanimator/Dredge/(Phoenix)
+ 3 Cage + 3 Extract + 3 Leyline + Cap
- ORing - 2 Judgement - 2 Spy - Rack - 3 Tax – Rune/(Leyline)
Pyromancer/(Shadow)
+ 3 Leyline - ORing - 2 Spy
Infect
+ 2 Grove + Cap + Spy + Rule - Leyline - Rune - 2 Tax - Rack
Elves
+ 3 Cage + Cap + Rule + 2 Grove - Leyline - Rune - 2 Spy - Tax - Rack - Halo
Burn
+ 3 Leyline + Cap + Never - 2 Spy - Rack - Tax - Judgement
Affinity
+ Cap - 1 Leyline
And here some writing of some games, where I took some notes:
Moon Stompy 1:2 on the draw
Close 1st game. I locked my opponent quickly, but he could get rid off my Spyglass and found a Chandra und I only drew ELEVEN lands from the top with no drawn Tutor or Rack…
2nd game: I locked him again but this time I had a Rack so that he couldn’t do anything.
3rd game: he beats me with his goblins to 1 life with a Rune of Protection: Red on the board. I casted a Moat with a mana open to prevent his Chandra damage, but he casted a second one.
Burn with Phoenix 2:0 on the draw
Rune of Protection: Red in the 2nd turn was enough.
Post boarding the Leyline did enough until I found a Tutor for my lovely Rune!
Dark Depths 2:0 on the draw
Wasteland gave me some time, so that I could casted Humility.
2nd game: I gave him 20 life and killed time with loam and wasteland until I found Humility.
Elves 2:0 on the draw
2nd Turn Humility with a Tutor on my hand was enough.
2nd game: Gravediggers Cage saved my life and two Moats with a Sterling Grove gave me the option so exile his Reclamation Sage and after the resolving Jester’s Cap he gave up.
Lands 2:0 on the draw (I have no luck with theses dices…)
I was so happy to have an always available Land Tax and we were locking each other and after talking about our decks and counting the remaining cards in our library he gave up.
2nd game I locked him again and found in my rack in the right time my extraction for his loam, which was enough.
Grixis Control 1 : 1 : 1 on the play
1st game: Countered Land Tax and then I was screwed after a Hymn. Two Strix have done the rest.
2nd game: Locked him fast and I needed some time (in my opinion too much) to find Elspeth.
3rd game: I locked him but there was not enough time to find Elspeth.
UW Delver 0:2 on the draw
1st turn Delver, flipped, 3rd turn TNN and enough counter to deal with three lockpieces.
In the 2nd game I did some (yes more then one) stupid mistakes, because I forgot to play around Daze and Spell Pierce.
Lands 2:0 on the draw
Lands is a free win…
Lands 2:0 on the play
Another free win…
WR Painter 1:2 on the draw
1st game: Welder and Painter beatdown under Humility, Leyline and Spyglass on Grindstone… I didn’t find a Tutor or Moat…
The 2nd game was one of my greatest game ever: I locked him after I was beaten to one life. We had so many judge calls because of Painter, Magus of the Moon, Smuggler Thopter, Scroll Rack, who verified for safety our layer assumption and was amused by calling him again and again. After I ‘drew’ my hole deck via Scroll Rack I finished him with Elspeth.
In the 3rd game I was screwed and he could get rid off my two Leylines and grind me to death, because I had no Scroll Rack with every solution in my hand...
Jund 2:0 on the play
Free win and a very desperate opponent…
DnT 1:2 on the play
I locked him in the first game and in the 2nd game, too, but I didn’t find a preventive solution to his Cataclysm. I had Rack and Loam and drew a lot of cards, but no tutor or Nevermore or Jester’s Cap…
Elves 0:2 on the draw
He got his revenge with two 2nd turn kills. I tested more games against him, and have to say, that Elves are my nemesis…
Dredge 2:0 on the draw
1st game: just a single Ghostly Prison could give so many headaches for my opponent. I had time to smash Humility and Moat on the board.
In the 2nd game he discarded his hand into Faithless Looting, and I extracted his only dredger hiding behind my Leyline. Then I locked him and got my Cap to find his outs, while I had him in a Wasteland-lock.
Eldrazi 1:2 on the draw
Two Thought-Knot Seer beat me to death after they took my Solutions…
2nd game he was making pressure, but I was able to lock him and get rid off his threads with my Cap.
3rd game: He hat again two Thought-Knot Seer and one Matter Shaper but I had Moat on the board. He found a Ratched Bomb and I was not able to defuse it. And this was the point, at which I threw the hole game away: I sworded one Seer in response of the cracked bomb and not the Matter Shaper… I had a 2nd Moat in my Hand and enough time to drew 12 more cards to defuse the next bomb… But I was to stupid…
4C Loam 0:2 on the play
Locked him in both games, but this deck played six big-enchantment removal and some smaller hate and lock pieces against me… This deck isn’t a great match up.
Esper Blade 2:1 on the play
1st game I locked him easily.
2nd game I was screwed and a Clique with Jitte beat me to death.
3rd game I locked my again easily and exiled Judgements out of his deck.
DnT 2:0 on the draw
Locked him with double Moat and Humility, because he said, that he still has a solution (Judgement main).
I locked him and forbid Cataclysm and exiled his Judgements.
UR Delver 0:2 on the draw
1st game flooded with tax and rack in the first round, but I casted them in the wrong order, so that he was able to Daze my Rack…
2nd game: two blind delver and a Pyro with a cantrip chain, while I was srewed.
Elves 0:2 on the draw
My nemesis again… Humility without Moat is senseless… Ghostly Prison is senseless…
4C Loam 2:1 on the play
1st game locked him.
2nd game him was beating me under a Humility slowly to death.
3rd game I locked him again and protected everything with double Grove.
4C Loam 0 : 1 : 1 on the play
Locked him, but he found all his trophies before I could find just one more solution to his Lilli, which dealt with my entire lock…
I locked him and wanted to play safe, what leaded to the one missing turn to kill him…
Humans 2:1 on the draw
1st game: locked him easily.
2nd game: a single 3/4 flyer killed me, found no removal or tutor or Humility…
3rd game: Locked him easily again.
Sneak Show 0:2 on the play
I played so many times against this deck and I have a 90% winning chance against lists without Cunning Wishes… But I found no Humility or O-Ring neither a Spyglass (Mulligan down to three cards)… Sometimes you have bad luck…
Food Chain 1 : 1 : 1 on the draw
1st game was an easy lock.
2nd game I had Leyline and Humility, he had infinite mana and his exil-crew which beat me up for four damage per turn.
3rd game: He extracted my Humility but I locked him, then he drew his complete deck in the last extra turn and searched for a solution, he said it’s a draw, after the handshake a friend of him pointed on his Engineered Explosive in his hand, we discussed the situation and realized, that I had enough StoPs on my hand, Mistveil Plains in game and enough cards in my hand to rebuild the lock the next turn, so that actually he would lose in the next two turns, so it was a draw.
Steel Stompy 0:2 on the draw
Humility with Prison wasn’t enough and a pumped Ravanger did his job.
2nd game I had to mulligan down to four and his double Thorn of Amethyst slowed my additionally down. I single Ballista beat me to death…
Eureka Nic Fit 0 : 1 : 1 on the play
Locked him, but then there was this Eureka… I handled all of his Planeswalkers… and had a Leyline, which I forgot, so that the curses were attached to me… Why should you just win, when you can throw away the game?
2nd game I locked him totally but there was not enough time (2 turns missing) to hit him with Elspeth.
4C Loam 0:2 on the draw
Well, this deck plays to many removals in the main deck.
In the conclusion I had to say, that I need one Elspeth more and should play the Sterling Groves in the Main again. I’ll cut the Spyglasses, which didn’t do enough. This give me the option to play Orim’s Chants in the Sideboard to improve the combo-matchups. This give me the option to replace nevermore with one Isochron Scepter, which will be a better choice with the new Karn in the SteelStompy and Eldrazi decks. And the chants could give me a turn to rebuild my lock. I changed the Rune of Protection: Red with Convalessence Care, which does the same job to burn, but allows to double dredge, when you want to dig through your deck and has some synergy to stall the game with Humility and Ghostly Prison. All the experience leads me to the following list:
// Lands
4 Plains
3 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Windswept Heath
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Savannah
4 Wasteland
1 Forest
// Spells
4 Mox Diamond
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Scroll Rack
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Humility
3 Moat
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Council's Judgment
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Life from the Loam
4 Land Tax
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Runed Halo
2 Sterling Grove
1 Convalescent Care
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Jester's Cap
SB: 1 Rule of Law
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Orim's Chant
SB: 1 Isochron Scepter
And finally: Please excuse my bad english... (btw: how do I use spoilers in this board to get more structure in my posts?)
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
Why not just enchantress? The parfait engine seems weird here when enchantress lets you be aggressive control while giving yourself more options to win.
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
H4rbinger
Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
Why not call it directly Parfait? (Or lime-parfait, since you're splashing green).
I really like the idea of your list. However I would be EXTREMELY reluctant to play a deck that plays the big number of exactly one Win-condition. You must really love Elspeth. Do you think Elspeth, Sun's Champion would be much worse?
Also this list is probably the best way to make Wheel of Sun and Moon playable...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Weapon X
Why not just enchantress? The parfait engine seems weird here when enchantress lets you be aggressive control while giving yourself more options to win.
It would completely change the gameplan as a whole. I don't think you can take the time to go T2 Enchantress when it would be strictly better to slam a piece of disruption.
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aedemiel
It would completely change the gameplan as a whole. I don't think you can take the time to go T2 Enchantress when it would be strictly better to slam a piece of disruption.
There really isn’t much for disruption in the list. You need the right piece to make it relevant and that also seems like an issue. Removing the 8 parfait slots immediately frees up space for the full compliment of tutors, or even sterling grove which would protect the minor disruption present. Parfait and enchantress have been my main decks over the years and this just looks like a bad version of both to me.
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Weapon X
There really isn’t much for disruption in the list.
True that. But I didn't say the list was perfect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Weapon X
You need the right piece to make it relevant and that also seems like an issue. Removing the 8 parfait slots immediately frees up space for the full compliment of tutors, or even sterling grove which would protect the minor disruption present. Parfait and enchantress have been my main decks over the years and this just looks like a bad version of both to me.
The way you implied it, I just read "Let's replace the parfait engine with 4 Argothian and 4 Presence". Which, obviously wouldn't work.
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
No implication. Simply cut the 8 cards worth of parfait. Building it as an enchantress list is the suggestion, at a minimum building it as a prison list wouldn’t hurt.
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
First of all: I don't wanna play enchantress!
And if I would play more tutors it won't make the deck better neither more stable because it is often nothing more then simple card disadvantage and if I would cut the so called 'parfait-parts' then there would a big instability in terms of getting mana. In the build I've posted, you can easily keep an hand without enough mana scources, because Tax, Loam or Rack will find it! And the best part of Scroll Rack is, that you'll often find the missing lockpieces while searching for the missing land.
I've tested the six-mana-elspeth but it wasn't worth it.
If you say this pile is the worst from enchantress mixed with the worst of parfait, then it's your oppinion and it might be right, but in my experience this pile isn't that fragil as it looks like and plays itself different.
I'm going to post updates everytime, when I was able to play at my local store, which sadly will not be too often...
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
...then don’t play enchantress. That’s easy enough.
I’m saying play 4 tutors because you need the right lock piece at the right time for them to be relevant. Also multiple copies of moat/humility/rack aren’t great. The card disadvantage tutor gives is negated by getting a card the opposing deck just loses too. Even on that front humility is the stronger card to moat, especially when paired with ghostly prison. Delver, emmy, griselbrand, etc aren’t threatening as 1/1’s .
I’m not sure how you have issues with mana at 22 sources. Loam looks like it would be the cause of that issue if anything being the only green card you’re playing.
Maybe my bdi parfait list would give you more ideas as that seems like what you want to play.
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
H4rbinger
I've tested the six-mana-elspeth but it wasn't worth it.
What do you mean wasn't worth it? Doesn't she get a faster kill? It seem to me that waiting to get to 6 mana wouldn't be that hard if you have the game locked-up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
H4rbinger
I'm going to post updates everytime, when I was able to play at my local store, which sadly will not be too often...
Please do!
Also, I get that Jester's cap is killer against combo decks, but isn't it a tad too slow?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Weapon X
I’m saying play 4 tutors because you need the right lock piece at the right time for them to be relevant. Also multiple copies of moat/humility/rack aren’t great...
I think I agree. We can probably afford to play at least one more tutor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Weapon X
Maybe my bdi parfait list would give you more ideas as that seems like what you want to play.
What does your list look like nowadays?
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Weapon X
It really hasn’t changed much since tax was unbanned.
Which is weird to me.
You already mentioned in the Parfait thread that you didn't really touched your list since the DRS ban, but the meta changed quite a lot since.
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
The meta changed with delve too, it made the deck stronger however. Combo will always be the weakness of the deck and that’s due to speed. Slow creature based games tend to be auto wins. Now that’s a bit of a gloss over what’s going on, but the point is the deck doesn’t necessarily need to change drastically. Most changes over the years were sideboard options, namely multiple planeswalkers started to become an issue and that was the most recent change.
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
Fair enough.
And did you test a G-splash like H4rbinger did?
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
I found it always wanted to be enchantress. Green gives you a better engine with enchantress and sterling grove. Those were the main reasons to consider green when I last looked.
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
After a long break I had the chance to play a tournament today and had a lot of fun with this brew.
I played the following List:
// Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Windswept Heath
4 Plains
3 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Savannah
1 Forest
// Spells
4 Mox Diamond
4 Land Tax
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Scroll Rack
3 Humility
3 Moat
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Council's Judgment
2 Life from the Loam
2 Sterling Grove
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Karn, the Great Creator
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Enlightened Tutor
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Jester's Cap
SB: 1 Rule of Law
SB: 1 Mycosynth Lattice
SB: 1 Kitesail
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
R1: 2:0 against Elves on the draw
R2: 1:2 against Lands on the play
R3: 0:2 against UB Omnitell on the draw
R4: 1:2 against Eldrazi on the play
R5: 2:0 against Goblins on the draw
My three loss can be seen on twitch (broadcast without coverage) in the top left https://www.twitch.tv/videos/426427674## at 1:02 ... There you are able to see my bottomless stupidity throwing away the win against Lands at 1:50... I also did some boarding mistakes... I recognize, that I have to play more often, because it was not the deck it was the pilot... I still like the pile and going to play it tomorrow again.
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
There are many things I would like to say/ask. But for now I will stick to that:
Kitesail???
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
If I had the hard lock Moat and Humility, then a Karn Lattice will not win, but with the kitesail I have a flying Lattice. There are other options to give creatures flying but I think this one is one of the safest.
Today I had 6 intense games and bad luck in all the third games:
R1 Burn 1:2 on the play: In the third game I had Leyline and CoP but there was no 4th Land, so that I couldn't smash Moat board to end this game... It tooks funny 12 turns with his funny 4 creatures...
R2 UGR Lands (again) 1:2 on the draw: Great games, but I think, that I make a fatal mistake again, but I'm unsure.
R3 UW Blade 1:2 on the draw: close games, which ended in two Disenchants, Snapy, Councils Judgement form his side.
R4 PostRamp 1:2 on the draw: Third Game with a Chalice on Three and Four was funny... I think this shows my flooded drawskill
R5 UR Delver 2:0 on the draw: Prison into tutored Leyline with daze play around was enough in both games.
R6 UR Delver 2:1 on the play: Leyline on every starthand but in the second game I couldn't handle the last flying creature.
Again I did some mistakes and all the loss games were so tight. Even if I lost four rounds, I had a lot of fun and these tight games, that I won't plan any big changes on this list.
Re: Humiliation (Wg Prison Control)
@H4rbinger: Do you still play this deck?
Did Veil of Summer make an explosive appearence in the SB?
