Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MGB
Urborg is almost strictly worse than City of Traitors in this deck.
Think about it - all it does it make Eye of Ugin tap for 1 mana. When Urborg comes into play,it essentially reads "Tap for 2 mana if Eye of Ugin is in play. Otherwise, tap for B."
If you want a land that taps for 2 mana, why not just play City of Traitors which ALWAYS taps for 2 mana? How often do you get both Urborg and Eye in play at the same time? Not enough times to justify it being worse than a basic swamp for 70%+ of the time.
I've cut all Urborg from all my lists and only play City of Traitors instead now.
The only upside Urborg has other than tapping for 2 when Eye is in play is if you have Oblivion Sower or if you are tapping Ancient Tombs for B to reduce pain from them. First, Oblivion Sower is a terrible card and you should never play it. Second, the life loss from Ancient Tombs matters only in about 10% of games, definitely not enough games to justify playing a bad Swamp.
I can see it this way: you want more sol lands to have more chances to set trini/Thorn/Chalice reliably on Turn 1-2.
Oblivion Sower was great when Shardless BUG was on the rise, since it could singlehandedly stop Tarmogoyf and Angler. Now, we have another flyer to care about and because of that Oblivion Sower now is much worse that Ballista or Endbringer.
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MGB
Urborg is almost strictly worse than City of Traitors in this deck.
Think about it - all it does it make Eye of Ugin tap for 1 mana. When Urborg comes into play,it essentially reads "Tap for 2 mana if Eye of Ugin is in play. Otherwise, tap for B."
If you want a land that taps for 2 mana, why not just play City of Traitors which ALWAYS taps for 2 mana? How often do you get both Urborg and Eye in play at the same time? Not enough times to justify it being worse than a basic swamp for 70%+ of the time.
I've cut all Urborg from all my lists and only play City of Traitors instead now.
The only upside Urborg has other than tapping for 2 when Eye is in play is if you have Oblivion Sower or if you are tapping Ancient Tombs for B to reduce pain from them. First, Oblivion Sower is a terrible card and you should never play it. Second, the life loss from Ancient Tombs matters only in about 10% of games, definitely not enough games to justify playing a bad Swamp.
Hi I saw your list from the last legacy challenge:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2019-04-29
Lands (25)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
2 Crystal Vein
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
2 Karakas
3 Vesuva
Creatures (8)
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Artifact (19)
1 Basalt Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
3 Trinisphere
4 Voltaic Key
Planeswalkers (8)
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Sideboard (15)
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Walking Ballista
2 Warping Wail
I love this build with full Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and I also wanted to build with Karn, the Great Creator toolbox.
So after playing with new Karn what do you think about him in this deck? It worked? The Mycosynth Lattice combo worked or is too much cute? 4 copies is the right number or is too much? And would you change something in main or in the sideboard/toolbox? =D
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nakapuff
Despite the rather middling result (4-3) in this challenge, I think this new version is maybe the best version of the deck yet.
Karn, the Great Creator is PURE GAS. He is insanely good, possibly even broken, in EVERY eternal format.
I've been testing him in modern Tron and he feels broken. I've been 4-1ing every league I play in Modern and Legacy with decks that play 4xKarn.
In the Challenge I basically only lost to people because of severe mistakes and unfamiliarity with the tactics of the new Karn. I sometimes fetched the wrong item, or didn't include items that I needed in the sideboard or maindeck (a Walking Ballista is needed both maindeck as a tutor target for Eye of Ugin and in the sideboard as a tutor target for Karn, for example.)
I'm going to keep testing this because I have a feeling this new Karn will break multiple formats wide open.
Mycosynth Lattice is a game-ending lock along with Ensnaring Bridge. A single Karn threatens to just lock the game up completely within two turns, unlike the old Karn which just threatened to be a minor card draw engine. Now they must counter Karn or find some answer or they will lose, and if they exhaust their resources trying to deal with early Karn, they will then have nothing left to deal with the other late-game threats like Eldrazi and Ugins.
Here's the list I think you should play right now:
Lands (25)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
2 Crystal Vein
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
2 Karakas
3 Vesuva
Creatures (8)
1 Walking Ballista
2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Artifact (19)
1 Basalt Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
3 Trinisphere
4 Voltaic Key
Planeswalkers (8)
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Sideboard (15)
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Trinisphere
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Ratchet Bomb (or 1 Wurmcoil Engine - can't decide yet what is better)
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Walking Ballista
2 Warping Wail
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MGB
Despite the rather middling result (4-3) in this challenge, I think this new version is maybe the best version of the deck yet.
Karn, the Great Creator is PURE GAS. He is insanely good, possibly even broken, in EVERY eternal format.
I've been testing him in modern Tron and he feels broken. I've been 4-1ing every league I play in Modern and Legacy with decks that play 4xKarn.
In the Challenge I basically only lost to people because of severe mistakes and unfamiliarity with the tactics of the new Karn. I sometimes fetched the wrong item, or didn't include items that I needed in the sideboard (a Walking Ballista is needed as a tutor target, for example.)
I'm going to keep testing this because I have a feeling this new Karn will break multiple formats wide open.
Thanks for the fast answer and don't worry about the initial result, deck is great and It's just the beginning. I saw the champion list and he was playing Eldrazi Stompy with one Ugin, the Ineffable and one sideboard, i thought that interesting.
Also talking about Eldrazi Stompy I'm thinking in a way to test the new Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner in that shell. Example:
Turn one - Sol Land + Chalice of the Void.
Turn two - Tap sol land play Grim Monolith and play any land or something like that can tap for :ug: . Tap Grim Monolith and colored land to cast Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner. Use her ability to untap Grim Monolith, tap it and play Thought-Knot Seer and draw a card.
She is huge as a walker, can untap monolith or any land and most of your creatures will give you a new card to keep the flow.
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nakapuff
Thanks for the fast answer and don't worry about the initial result, deck is great and It's just the beginning. I saw the champion list and he was playing Eldrazi Stompy with one
Ugin, the Ineffable and one sideboard, i thought that interesting.
Also talking about Eldrazi Stompy I'm thinking in a way to test the new
Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner in that shell. Example:
Turn one - Sol Land +
Chalice of the Void.
Turn two - Tap sol land play
Grim Monolith and play any land or something like that can tap for :ug: . Tap
Grim Monolith and colored land to cast
Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner. Use her ability to untap
Grim Monolith, tap it and play
Thought-Knot Seer and draw a card.
She is huge as a walker, can untap monolith or any land and most of your creatures will give you a new card to keep the flow.
What's the list with Kiora?
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Kiora isnt worth messing up the manabase.
I do think both Karn the Great Creator and Ugin the Ineffible are worth testing in place the of old Ugin and Ballistas. Karn with a few more utility artifacts and a Lattice in the side is extremely promising.
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
I am testing choke maindeck and it has been awesome, it also open window to sideboard krosan grip against b2b and others problematics enchantments.
EDIT : testing shown it was actually bad ....
// 60 Maindeck
// 11 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
// 14 Creature
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
// 4 Enchantment
4 Choke
// 27 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
8 Forest
// 4 Tribal
4 All Is Dust
// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Artifact
SB: 3 Trinisphere
SB: 3 Sorcerous Spyglass
// 4 Creature
SB: 4 Faerie Macabre
// 5 Instant
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Warping Wail
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
I just finished the lastest Legacy Challenge on MODO. This time I only managed to place 2nd in the challenge with the "midrange" version but also playing 1 copy of Ugin the Ineffable in the main. Ugin was a non-factor until the top-4 when I cast him against a Death n Taxes opponent and killed a Palace Jailer with it, basically leading to my victory. In the finals I lost to the mirror match, except that he was playing the more "high end" version with the Voltaic Keys, mana rocks, and the new Karn.
What's amazing about this deck is that it's hardly played anywhere but the few people that do play it tend to consistently put up solid finishes.
On MODO, I've basically top-8ed a Legacy Challenge with some variant of this deck at least 6-7 times in the past year or so, with two top-4 finishes, a win, and now a top-2 finish. This deck is definitely tier 1 at this point imho, and once you get to really figure out how it operates, you can win at a high rate with it. I know on MODO I've gone beyond infinite with the deck and have so many event tickets and play points I don't know what to do with them all. I'll never have to pay for anything on MODO ever again.
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MGB
I just finished the lastest Legacy Challenge on MODO. This time I only managed to place 2nd in the challenge with the "midrange" version but also playing 1 copy of Ugin the Ineffable in the main. Ugin was a non-factor until the top-4 when I cast him against a Death n Taxes opponent and killed a Palace Jailer with it, basically leading to my victory. In the finals I lost to the mirror match, except that he was playing the more "high end" version with the Voltaic Keys, mana rocks, and the new Karn.
What's amazing about this deck is that it's hardly played anywhere but the few people that do play it tend to consistently put up solid finishes.
On MODO, I've basically top-8ed a Legacy Challenge with some variant of this deck at least 6-7 times in the past year or so, with two top-4 finishes, a win, and now a top-2 finish. This deck is definitely tier 1 at this point imho, and once you get to really figure out how it operates, you can win at a high rate with it. I know on MODO I've gone beyond infinite with the deck and have so many event tickets and play points I don't know what to do with them all. I'll never have to pay for anything on MODO ever again.
I was your finals opponent. I just decided to pick up the deck since Karn and Ugin looked interesting. You and another Post player were my Swiss losses. I played this: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1879311#online. Started 5-0, lost the last 2, made 8th seed, beat MzFroste (7-0), then same 2 post players. Deck felt great. Didn't use Leylines once. Everything else was solid.
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Super excited to see this revival of BIG lists. I haven't been playing for the past couple of months but have played more or less exclusively Cloudpost decks for the past year (mainly Cg) and am eager to try out the new Karn. Do we think that its worth getting foils while they are <40USD?
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
itrytostorm
I was your finals opponent. I just decided to pick up the deck since Karn and Ugin looked interesting. You and another Post player were my Swiss losses. I played this:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1879311#online. Started 5-0, lost the last 2, made 8th seed, beat MzFroste (7-0), then same 2 post players. Deck felt great. Didn't use Leylines once. Everything else was solid.
Your list looks pretty similar to the list I brainstormed for the new Karn and tried out in last week's challenge: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1859586#paper
I didn't put Ugin the Ineffable in my list because I didn't really see the advantage of playing Ugin 2.0 over the classic Ugin. Did you find the new Ugin to be worth playing over other options in your time testing the list? Also, what do you think about the 1-of Karn Liberated and how it performed for you?
I love the new Karn but I want to settle on the best possible list and determine if playing mana rocks is better or worse than playing the midrange Eldrazi creatures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnza
Super excited to see this revival of BIG lists. I haven't been playing for the past couple of months but have played more or less exclusively Cloudpost decks for the past year (mainly Cg) and am eager to try out the new Karn. Do we think that its worth getting foils while they are <40USD?
I know I'm going to be getting my foil Karns pretty soon. Then again, they won't see play in Standard so they might drop... but I'm impatient and want them now.
If you really want to splurge you can get those fancy japanese anime foil Karns - for $200 a piece: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Wa...eator-Japanese
I personally think the anime Karn is a bit garish.
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
itrytostorm
I was your finals opponent. I just decided to pick up the deck since Karn and Ugin looked interesting. You and another Post player were my Swiss losses. I played this:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1879311#online. Started 5-0, lost the last 2, made 8th seed, beat MzFroste (7-0), then same 2 post players. Deck felt great. Didn't use Leylines once. Everything else was solid.
Congrats on the win. It seems like this challenge was full of post, I played it 3 out of 8 rounds, 2 out of 7 last week. Seems like I can't go without non basic hate anymore. The only thing that holds me back is I like to use modi as testing for paper events and I tend to never see post at GPs and such. That and post is basically the only Deck I'd want said pand hate versus anyways. It feels almost unwinnable from a UW standpoint without specific hate, or just getting really lucky.
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MGB
Your list looks pretty similar to the list I brainstormed for the new Karn and tried out in last week's challenge:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1859586#paper
I didn't put Ugin the Ineffable in my list because I didn't really see the advantage of playing Ugin 2.0 over the classic Ugin. Did you find the new Ugin to be worth playing over other options in your time testing the list? Also, what do you think about the 1-of Karn Liberated and how it performed for you?
Ugin was good for the spot removal 1-2 turns sooner, as well as a good card advantage engine. Karn was good. Being able to tag lands in the mirror or go upstairs against UWx decks.
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mzfroste
Congrats on the win. It seems like this challenge was full of post, I played it 3 out of 8 rounds, 2 out of 7 last week. Seems like I can't go without non basic hate anymore. The only thing that holds me back is I like to use modi as testing for paper events and I tend to never see post at GPs and such. That and post is basically the only Deck I'd want said pand hate versus anyways. It feels almost unwinnable from a UW standpoint without specific hate, or just getting really lucky.
Thanks. The matchup seemed quite easy from my side. After you fetched Tundras I knew I was going to be okay. I know you haven't seen post in paper, but it keeps getting more tools, and is reasonable affordable(comparatively) minus cities and monoliths.
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
itrytostorm
...but it keeps getting more tools, and is reasonable affordable(comparatively) minus cities and monoliths.
How many Cities are necessary? Recently, Iwas able to get two foreigns for a good price.
Sent from my Android Palantνr using Tapatalk
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Numenorean
How many Cities are necessary? Recently, Iwas able to get two foreigns for a good price.
Sent from my Android Palantνr using Tapatalk
I genuinely dislike City. I would typically run 2. I wanted to try a ton of sol lands this week and see how it would help push out bigger threats. So it's actually frustrating the time I did well was with 4 of them.
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
itrytostorm
I was your finals opponent. I just decided to pick up the deck since Karn and Ugin looked interesting. You and another Post player were my Swiss losses. I played this:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1879311#online. Started 5-0, lost the last 2, made 8th seed, beat MzFroste (7-0), then same 2 post players. Deck felt great. Didn't use Leylines once. Everything else was solid.
You win legacy challenge? Same list in the link?
Vs delver deck and death and taxes is good matchup?
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
caprino
You win legacy challenge? Same list in the link?
Vs delver deck and death and taxes is good matchup?
I won the challenge with that list.
I faced Delver once and won in 3 games. Having no wail hurts, but our ramp plan makes light counters useless, and moon less effective. Haven't faced D&T but I'd imagine with the way this is configured it favors D&T.
Again, I am no master of the deck, so others may have more insight on those matches.
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
itrytostorm
I genuinely dislike City. I would typically run 2. I wanted to try a ton of sol lands this week and see how it would help push out bigger threats. So it's actually frustrating the time I did well was with 4 of them.
City has a devious drawback but the ability to play more than 4 sol-lands in this format helps with our ramp plan IMMENSELY.
I see people playing Urborg instead of City and I think it's a huge mistake. Urborg has basically no place in our deck.
I'd play at least 2 City of Traitors in any Eldrazi Post list, midrange or high-end.
Re: [Primer] Eldrazi Post Colorless Eldrazi Ramp
This is the point where I post the link for the 12-post discord and invite you all to join it: https://discord.gg/4nUqHra
I check The Source very infrequently these days but will usually check this discord server every day. I can't comment extensively on the Eldrazi Post channel but the Cg channel often has good discussions and reports in it.
I brought up the topic of having a dedicated channel for "big" colourless decks (basically what Pathy/MGB used to play) and at the time we decided there weren't enough people interested for it to have its own channel, but there might be a renewal of interest now that makes it worthwhile. But then again I think the question of whether the new Karn is better in a "big" shell or a midrangier shell with more Eldrazi is still open.