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Yeah, I was just about to mention that. Even when we ran 4 DRS, and had 1 Lili and 3-4 Hymns, we were on 20 lands. And that was 4 Seas, 2 Bayou and only 1 Trop.

Now, Wasteland is a little less...

Hmm, interesting points. It does seem that, at least from a historical point of view, that Mongoose does better in Stifle versions rather than Hymn ones though.

As you say though, Strix/Coatl's...

In DTB now, since it's a delver deck that can sport Lurrus.

As an example, Julian23 7-0 in the Super Qualifier:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
1 Tarmogoyf

4 Ponder
3 Abrupt Decay

While I love Hymn, discard might not be ideal now.

From Discord user zerzab11:
https://i.imgur.com/fZQ9Ubq.jpg

Some people are reporting good results with the list.

I still guess that there may be, once the Wrenn and Six meta slacks (if it does), something to a Hymn-Hexdrinker-Liliana sort of TA deck. But, likely such a thing would really need a DRS surrogate...

Yeah, but does BUG, or TA, really beat that, or the meta? I'm not so sure. While our mana would be marginally better, we, at least in TA, don't run Basics, and so will suffer at the hands of Wrenn...

While that is true, I think right now, unfortunately, BUG is "suffering" the usual "non-Red problem." Wrenn and Six is really that good, not to mention access to Blasts and possibly Arcanist.

I...

A couple thoughts, in abreviated form because I am on my phone.

One, I think picking either Stifle or Hymn is a much better idea, not trying to jam both maindeck.

Two, I think 19 lands with...

Stifle, maybe.

Although it is hard to imagine a good reason to run Green over Red off the top of my head.

I'm sure he'll be back. I don't think he lives in the US though, so he might well be traveling at the moment.

Maybe Death and Taxes and Czech Pile? Lots of X-1's there. Not to mention the pain that is Young Pyromancer (which is seems many Grixis lists where on).

Go for the Throat is a perfectly reasonable option. I've run it before, even if those were the days before Push was an option. It does what you need it to do and 2 CMC isn't unreasonable. It isn't...

I too believe that 19.5 lands would be the best, but since that is impossible, I err toward running 20 and siding out 1 land (usually either a Wasteland or a Bayou) if I am facing non-Wasteland...

Well, it is sort of good to hear that our collective 'wisdom' probably does have some merit. I don't think it would, considering your meta, be bad to be at 3 'Goyf/2 TNN/1 Leo/1 Tombstalker, but...

Well, one this list there are some curious/counter intuitive choices here, at least as far as the conventional wisdom (generally) of this thread.

The 20 land versions generally run 7 duals, mainly...

1)Jace can be very good in grindy, removal heavy match ups, where you know they'll probably have lots of creature removal. Also good in case they land something obnoxious like Ensaring Bridge. Or in...

There is no doubt that Charm is far more flexible and therefor has a good deal more utility, in the above proposed list I think killing your own TNN is just not an acceptable compromise. It just has...

There are indeed plenty of upsides to being in BUG. While 'Goyf is a damn good card, I think it is possible, even if not exactly optimal, to do without him. Liliana is definitely a mixed bag,...

7 fetchable is much better in the face of Wastelands, also. Even then, there are the awful times where you get locked out of Green mana versus a good draw from D&T between Wastes and Ports. Also,...

Really? Lots of decks have run 4 Force of Wills with Dark Confidants. I've done it plenty myself.

A quick look says his list should have an average CMC of 1.26, which isn't exactly low, but...

You know, I just had the thought, since Fatal Push has me thinking of BUG again, of the following things:

First, Delver can sometimes be the worst creature in the deck, because making the Miracles...

Liliana, the Last Hope is both better and worse. I mean, if you can tag X/1's with the +1, she is great. If you aren't, she is pretty underwhelming, I think. She might well be OK versus Miracles,...

Well, 20 is based on having something like 4 three-drops. 19 is plausible, but it tends to hurt when you play RUG or Death & Taxes, in my experience. I don't think 19 is wrong, per se, but rather...

In the open meta, 1/1 is probably better, since two Liliana is best versus Miracles and worse versus nearly everything else. You'll be a dog to Eldrazi regardless, but Dismember is better versus...

It's often remarked how BUG Delver has the "worst mana-base" in Legacy (mostly for Hymn/Liliana builds) and frankly it is probably true. What we arrived at with the 20 Land, 4 Sea, 1 Trop, 2 Bayou...