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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    So I ran the CT-less list today. Definetely had some games where Chill not being Therapy cost me the game. For now I'm afraid I'm reverting to my CT safety blanket.
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I think I'm gonna try Chills over Therapies... Hogaak should work fine as counter bait
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    No Cabal Therapy? :eek:
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Creeping Chill is awesome
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    Re: [Primer] Elves!

    It shuts down the enemy when Craterhoof can't steal the game. You typically name instant, although that can differ per MU
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Kinda :wink:
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    @akyher: Just join the Nic Fit discord. Plenty of people there to help you and provide feedback
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Absolutely!

    Force is for stuff that doesn't solve itself, like Leylines, Cage and RiP :smile:
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Relic's tap ability can straightup kill you if you don't have a Street Wraith or Phantasmagorian.

    As for saccing Crypt/Relic you basically want to slowroll it and keep your hand full at all times...
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Easily :smile:
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    There's also River Kelpie. Resolving all the triggers is a major pain though.
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Can't pitch red cards to FoW. If you're not on the FoW plan you should probably just run Balustrade Spy.
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Yup. .4 * .4 = about 16% chance per hand of that happening. Considering we have 2 mulls at best (Force + green card, Unmask + black card and a dredger equals 5 cards after all) we'll have 3 hands to...
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    Re: The London Mulligan

    Man if Chalice decks ever become a thing just run something w/ 4 Abrupt Decay and mayhaps 4 Assassin's Trophy. If Chalice becomes a thing the meta might change, so what? Is that really a bad thing? I...
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I like my Progenitus... Being able to flip my library knowing I will for sure have another attack phase to swing with all my critters is pretty sweet.
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Thank you! Figured Chill was the cut to make.
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    @Final Fortune: Can you post your 75?
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I'm not sold on Hogaak yet tbh

    It sucks vs. Karakas
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    With a Sulfuric Vortex it takes 6 instants/sorceries (that don't do damage) to kill your opponent. One could do just about the same with 6/7 Bolts (or Fireblast/PoP etc.). I'm guessing it's more...
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    16, b/c FoW math.

    Edit: hellhound beat me to it :laugh:
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I do prefer Force of Vigor over the Arbor/Claim plan. Being able to potentially destroy 2 things is also pretty damn cool.
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    I'm guessing that's the Force of Negation?

    Should be good enough, if the deck can support it. Won't stop Surgical, but will stop everything that stops us dead in our tracks. More Forces means...
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Too slow. Would've been useful if it said "any mainphase", like Carpet of Flowers. Unfortunately it doesn't.
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    Re: [Primer] +Manaless Dredge+

    Miracles is a pretty good MU for any Manaless lis tbh. You just ignore pretty much everything they do
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    It does nothing other planeswalkers don't already do better.
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