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Well it seems they've finally given us some new cards to ponder, and taken away one of our first choice cards in Probe.:cry:
I'm currently using Chancellor in that slot, but I'm testing with a deck...

Not specifically, no.
If you're keen on FoW I suggest you try out all sorts of side options, see what is useful for you.
I play against a lot of white decks myself, so RiP is expected in these...

Congrats on getting the FoW's!
I feel Shadow is one of the better cards in this deck as it enables Dread Return consistently. I always run 4.

I've been playing the blue list for ages, feel free...

Personally I've never played Chancellor VS Grixis, so I can't answer that one as well as some here.
I used to run the card years ago. I kinda feel Amalgam & Chancellor are vying for the same spot....

I used to play this green version back before RiP, Cage & DRS got printed. From memory, Hollywood and a few others put a fair bit of time into it.
I can't say that this plan doesn't have merit,...

A single flayer & 4 PA's entering at the endstep is 16 damage. Sac Flayer to Therapy before the end-step, for an extra 5.
I'm not arguing with you. PA has changed how we combo.
I used to use 2...

This.
I played Manaless just recently, blue list, my main very similar to yours. I went 4-1, losing out to Death & Taxes c/o Rip/Helm combo. Pretty happy with that result! :laugh:
I run 2x Flayer...

I'm mostly with FF on this one, redundancy is the word here.:wink:
That said, 15 was the number I settled on, but I would shave that to 14 postboard dependant on the opponent.
I've played Manaless...

Yeah I can only remember siding out a single Icky (and Shells) back when I was riding the Green side, but since then Fearless (Spy) or Blue (Force) means there's other things I'd rather side out than...

AFter running the green side myself with Dryad Arbor in the main for quite a while, I can honestly say it's not all that great compared to current options. I favour Blue FWIW.
Add to that, Chalice...

I'm guessing the *shuffle* part of Surgical Extraction etc. helps to disrupt top and brainstorm enough for it to have multiple uses, not just to hate on graveyard decks like dredge. I have to wonder...

I tend to agree here too. LED-dredge is all about landing a board presence early, and then riding those zombies/Ickys to victory whether they play gravehate or not.
Manaless is a turn or two...

My point is they're not mutually exclusive strategies, you can MB Unmask and SB Force of Will.

The point is, Cage & RiP are the most common hate I see outside of Extaction (which doesn't really bother us as much as the previous) and if we want to discard them, we have the best chance of doing...

RE: Force;
(In context) I tend to agree that Unmask is a great option in Manaless for combo. They usually only run Surgical Extraction IME.
But....
Brainstorm is everywhere. And getting Time...

(I'm assuming we're talking about E's list with a combo Dread Return package & Vengeful P, if not please correct me)
In my experience with the Blue FOW version;
Maybe, they're actually very...

I'm not sure it's needed, but feel free to test it out and see how you roll with it. (Elesh always felt like win-more to me in any form of Dredge)

Personally, when it comes to targets for Dread...

Talk of Blue Manaless over on the LED-dredge page had me wanting to take this list last night, happy I did!

My list;
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Golgari Thug
4x Stinkweed Imp
2x Shambling Shell...

I ran the blue-force manaless list exclusively for around 6 months. You may be able to find info on my findings early in this thread or in the old manaless thread.
This was before amalgam was...

Especially when you consider how prevalent DRS is these days. Personally 15 is the lowest number of dredgers I'll go.

That could be a fairly entertaining multiplayer deck.:cool:
I like Pharoah in this list. The only thing I would be wary of is hitting too many of them early, where we screw up our slow-dredges. 3...

The newer Eldrazi deck makes it hard even for LED-dredge to win, given Bridges don't stand a chance of staying in the yard. So yeah, the man-plan probably does have a better chance in game1 here...

Agreed. However I don't want to side out Shadow completely, as extraction is still a thing where I play.
Shoal is obviously not Force, but potentially having 8 answers to RiP in a deck that can't...

I'm in the same boat.

Although;
If any of your fellaz take out this Horde version to a Legacy night, call me curious as to how you go.

The blue version I'm fiddling with at is ~17-18 blue (4...

Okay, fair enough > So you're constructing horde just because. :wink: If you're looking hard at Gravecrawler (with Dakmor) or Bloodghast;

Ghast works with Undiscovered Paradise potentially
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