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I think most CB/Top players seem disillusioned.

If Repeal and Firespout make creature decks a non-issue, then why do the Firespout decks keep losing to the creature decks?

I was being serious.

Let's get to the heart of the problem. Is Firespout a better plan than what a regular Bant CB/Top deck can produce? Yeah, sure. But it is still a losing plan.

You want...

Firespout isn't that good against Merfolk. Firespout doesn't answer Mutavault, nor does it answer the creatures they are undoubtedly sand-bagging in their hand either.

Consider that Merfolk can...

I'm basing my experience off the guy who won GP Madrid. Yes, he goes for Inkwell against CB decks. Naming white with Iona shuts off StP, but it raises a lot of other complications. A lot are still...

The reanimation target of choice against CB decks is Inkwell Leviathan, not Iona.

According to Wizard's website, Saito's record day 1 was 7-0-2.

"Control isn't just about card advantage, or else you would be playing Dismiss instead of Daze, Concentrate instead of Brainstorm, and Evangelize instead of Swords to Plowshares."

This is an extremely poor line of thought.

Control isn't just about card advantage, or else you would be playing Dismiss instead of Daze, Concentrate instead of Brainstorm, and Evangelize...

Taking out Force of Will seems extremely poor. Consider the following:

1) Force of Will is inherently a very powerful card.

2) The Zoo deck will likely be boarding in hate cards that you...

Trygon Predator. 4 copies if need be.

A couple copies of Grip isn't too bad either.

You are playing CB/Top. You *will* get into losing situations whether you want to or not, simply because you spent time/mana/cards on establishing the CB/Top soft-lock and your opponent spent their...

Goyf and War Monk are not finishers.

In fact, a single Goyf on the other side of the board will hold off both a Goyf and War Monk on your side of the board.

Sure Goyf and friends can finish games, but do they always finish games? No. There are times even when you play Goyf and a couple other dudes where you simply don't have an advantageous position,...

There are two ways mana denial will make expensive things not work:

1) You happen to mana screw your opponent. If they are ramping to a 4 mana spell, and the mana denial leaves them with only 3...

There are two main problems with cards like Stifle/Wasteland in a Counterbalance deck.

The first main problem is that, due to the nature of CB/Top, aggressive tempo cards are just not the natural...

I'd imagine if you fetched 2 Tropicals instead of a basic Island and Tropical Island you would have been OK. ;)

You left a lot of details out, namely the parts that mattered.



There is a...

Or you could cast your 1 green creature when you play the Tropical Island.

I mean we can go at this for days.

Fetching basics won't save you from Wastelands. They will still hit your Seas, Trops, or whatever non-basics you naturally draw.

Furthermore, you will color screw yourself. How do you play...

They don't have to be nonbasic lands.

But nevertheless, this is correct. The best way to fight Wasteland is to simply run more total land. This will cut into business, but decks with mana denial...

Using the Mulligan so liberally in a control deck is the sign of a poorly built deck.

It's not a legitimate answer to consistency issues.



There's no way they're racing you if you stick...

I know what the deck wants to be in particular matches.

My point was actually along the lines of whether the deck can consistently choose its role in those matches. ;)

One other point to note:...

Yes. A Counter-Top deck with 8-12 disruption, 8-12 creatures, and enough draw/search to find the Natural Order is essentially aggro/control/combo.

The innate problem with a deck like this is...

While I don't play Natural Order, I would like to comment in its favor momentarily.

I have a lot more experience playing Vintage than Legacy. This is mostly because I was playing Vintage before...

The point is that Ponder won't lose you games like Stifle will. ;)

I'm not going to head into a point-by-point an analysis. You already know the pros and cons, and while you gain the ability to...

Exactly. =)

Ponder finds things. Threats, answers, SB bombs, protection, land (if they try to mana screw you), it doesn't matter. Stifle sits in your hand, and at best it trades 1:1 with a...