[Deck] Pox

[Clark Kant]

mujdaddy, after having run Tombstalker in pox with fetchlands forever now, I'm fairly convinced that it is the single best card in the deck.

Also, you don't have enough discard to make the Rack work.

And 4 Wasteland is an absolute must play card in the deck.

You should also play atleast 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.

My personal preference is to run 3 Mishra's Factory 4 Wasteland, 4 Tombstalker, 3 Crucible of Worlds, 2 of FS's Swamps you can dredge up for 2 and 3-4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Dark Ritual, Totem, The Rack definately don't work belong anymore imo. Night's Whispers probably doesn't either.



I would squeeze a couple of Rancid Earth too if possible.

[mujadaddy]

mujdaddy, after having run Tombstalker in pox with fetchlands forever now, I'm fairly convinced that it is the single best card in the deck.

Also, you don't have enough discard to make the Rack work.

And 4 Wasteland is an absolute must play card in the deck.

You should also play atleast 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.

My personal preference is to run 3 Mishra's Factory 4 Wasteland, 4 Tombstalker, 3 Crucible of Worlds, 2 of FS's Swamps you can dredge up for 2 and 3-4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Dark Ritual, Totem, The Rack definately don't work belong anymore imo. Night's Whispers probably doesn't either.



I would squeeze a couple of Rancid Earth too if possible.

Yes re: Tombstalker -- much faster than the Totem, esp. if I only expect to see one of either per game.

We'll disagree re: the Rack for now.

Wastelands -- I've never liked them -- I'm an ole Strip Mine purist -- why go half-assed?

...and without Wastelands, I don't feel I need Urborg. I dislike Mishras Factory for some odd personal reason. I understand the synergy between MishFac, Wastes, Urborg (& esp. Crucible), but I'm going another way with the deck. And the FS Swamp comes into play tapped

Get rid of Dark Ritual -- very scary. I'm not ready to contemplate that. I'm willing to contemplate dumping Night's Whisper and I've already dumped Totems.



Still testing, though. I'll post a new decklist soon.

[FoolofaTook]

Wastelands -- I've never liked them -- I'm an ole Strip Mine purist -- why go half-assed?

Wasteland is a killer card against half of the current meta. There are so many decks that are counting on cantrips to sort out the low-mana draws that they choose not to mulligan and a single Wasteland beats them when that happens.

[mujadaddy]

Wasteland is a killer card against half of the current meta. There are so many decks that are counting on cantrips to sort out the low-mana draws that they choose not to mulligan and a single Wasteland beats them when that happens.

Well, I was half-kidding. I know that meta-wise, W/L is useful, but jeez, not for a Pox deck... not without Crucible, at least...

[FoolofaTook]

Well, I was half-kidding. I know that meta-wise, W/L is useful, but jeez, not for a Pox deck... not without Crucible, at least...

Well you know the kind of deck you're playing better than I do, however I thought it was a oneshot deck trying to reduce the opponent to an inevitable loss in 4 or 5 turns. Wasteland, used once, contributes mightily to that. By the time you would be recurring with Crucible you've either won or lost, right?

[mujadaddy]

Well you know the kind of deck you're playing better than I do, however I thought it was a oneshot deck trying to reduce the opponent to an inevitable loss in 4 or 5 turns. Wasteland, used once, contributes mightily to that. By the time you would be recurring with Crucible you've either won or lost, right?

Lots of Pox lists DO run Wastelands. I don't want to have to depend on my opponent running nonBasics to destroy them, at the cost of one of my own land drops that produces only colorless in the meantime.

4 or 5 turns, in my experience, would be really fast (generally I wouldn't have enough cards in the GY to cast Tombstalker unless I had a god draw/topdeck -- say, 10% of the time ) -- however, because of all the land & hand disruption, the opponent feels like he gets only 4 or 5 turns, but the actual turn count is somewhere in the 7 or 8 range, usually.

[jebus]

23 Swamps / Fetches / Wastes (if you want them)
4 Dark Ritual

3 SDT

3 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole
4 Hymn
4 Thoughtseize/Duress

3 Tombstalker
4 Idol/Nihilith/Epochrasite/The Rack

4 other stuff (extra discard, extra wincons, Powder Keg, E Plague, Innocent Blood, metagame stuff, etc etc)

Actually I have 3 SDTs on the sample list. Right there after the mana sources. I find it absolutely essential... it smooths out your mana and gives you card quality - it is far more effective for this deck to draw one good card (via SDT) than to draw two blind ones (via Whisper).

One plays Stalker after everything's been blown up, so there's no need to sac him to Pox/Spox unless it's a desperate situation. Two (maybe three, though rarely) hits is all you need from him anyway.

I like Idol because though they only hit for 3, they also play defense. A Totem can't block for sh*t.

Also, realistically speaking, how much better is Thoughtseize than Duress for Pox? Especially when you pack extra ways to blow creatures up (Keg, Blood, etc).

[mujadaddy]

Part of my "problem" is that I only test against aggro -- this might be why I'm "sold" on ThoughtS over Duress...

In a lot of hands, though, I'm getting multiple Tombstalkers -- this is making me think that I should go ahead & ADD more critters -- Skittering Skirge is what I'm looking at -- because multiple 8-mana critters SUX. (I'm a little drunk right now )

Currently, my test list has dumped the Night's Whispers, so consider me convinced... I haven't gotten around to the SDT-testing yet tho.

Tests continue.

[jebus]

I've only ever run 3 Stalkers, so getting bunches of them has never really been a problem.

I've decided to revive this deck on MWS:

12 Swamp
4 Mire
3 Delta
4 Waste
4 Ritual
3 SDT
2 Plague
3 Pox
4 Spox
4 Sinkhole
4 Hymn
3 Duress
3 Thoughtseize
3 Stalker
4 Idol

Haha let's see what happens with the 3 Duress / 3 Seize split. I'm also swinging between 2 Plague, 2 Keg, or 2 Totem (why not try it out again?)

Happy new year everyone!

[mujadaddy]

Happy New Year to you too, bub.

I'm finding that a few SDT's (2 right now) does a body good.

I'm also swinging between 2 Plague, 2 Keg, or 2 Totem (why not try it out again?)

The reason I dropped Totems was mana-screw. It's a case of win-more with the Totems.

I'm currently very pleased with:

20 x Swamp
1 x Nether Spirit
3 x Tombstalker
3 x Skittering Skirge
4 x The Rack
4 x Dark Ritual
4 x Thoughtseize
4 x Hymn to Tourach
4 x Sinkhole
4 x Smallpox
2 x Sensei's Divining Top
4 x Pox
3 x Underworld Dreams

...with the usual suspects in the 'board (Powder Keg, Chains, Infest, Void-Line)

Maindeck Underworld Dreams is superb for clocking stalemates.

[jebus]

Underworld Dreams is an interesting addition. I might give it a shot.

With SDT, you'd also want some fetches in the deck for the shuffling effect. A good rule of thumb is to have at least twice as many fetches as SDTs.

[mujadaddy]

Underworld Dreams is an interesting addition. I might give it a shot.

At first, I was just keeping them on the extended sideboard list as a (much) cheaper alternative to Chains, but as I was looking for more firepower, I realized that they'd be good on their own maindeck, especially vs. Brainstorms and the like.

With SDT, you'd also want some fetches in the deck for the shuffling effect. A good rule of thumb is to have at least twice as many fetches as SDTs.

Ahhhh... I see now -- shuffle the deck... Got it, got it... makes sense. Without the Tops, though, I wouldn't really need fetches. Roger.

[eternaldarkness]

This made top 2 in the Dragon's League Tourney in Italy (Feb 24, 2008). Got it from the tournament report section in this here site.

2) Giulio Trapani - 8-Pox

Creatures (2)
2 x Nether Spirit

Spells (37)
4 x Smallpox
4 x Dark Ritual
4 x Sinkhole
4 x Hymn to Tourach
4 x Pox
4 x Innocent Blood
4 x Duress
3 x Crucible of Worlds
3 x Cursed Scroll
2 x Chimeric Idol
1 x Infernal Tutor

Lands (21)
6 x Swamp
4 x Wasteland
3 x Mishra's Factory
3 x Bayou
3 x Cabal Pit
2 x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard (15)
4 x Leyline of the Void
3 x Engineered Plague
3 x Krosan Grip
2 x Desolation
1 x Powder Keg
1 x Zuran Orb
1 x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

The most glaring thing about the list would be the use of the 'classical' win cons in the form of Nether spirit, Idol and Scroll. IMO, idol along with 1-2 copies of scroll should be subbed out for tombstalker which is always a better clock. The green splash for krosan grip is a nice bit of tech to fight the counterbalance-top engine which would otherwise slaughter 8-pox.

I'm not exactly sold on all the one-ofs in the sideboard...how often would a singleton Zuran orb/powder keg help you out? Duress in place of thoughtseize is also questionable since there was a goblin deck and an angel stompy in that top 8. I think a 3-1 split between 'seize and duress might work if the straight-up four copies of thoughtseize would yield too much life loss.

[mujadaddy]

I'm not exactly sold on all the one-ofs in the sideboard...how often would a singleton Zuran orb/powder keg help you out?

Yes, it seems like he had trouble deciding what to take OUT of the deck when sideboarding.

I agree that scroll stinks, and Ch.Idol is inferior to Tombstalker. With THREE ( ) Cabal Pits, he's taking alot of self damage, just for mana--this is probably what put him off the Thoughtseizes.

OK you've said you "like the green splash" to deal with enchantments (Counterbalance!), but aren't you the fellow who said he'd like to stay mono-B? (I want to stay mono-B too). So what are your thoughts?

[mujadaddy]

OK, I got to do a little testing, vs. Eva Green & 43Land, via MWS.

43Land kinda stomps the deck game 1, with Leyline of the Void sleeping in the sideboard. That, and the Eva Green matchup, makes me want to fit Extirpates in the maindeck (Extirpating LftLoam & Eternal Witness would have made those matches, respectively, relatively easy/easier). In all of my games I ran into HUGE patches of land (20 swamps, if you recall) -- it helped in the 43Land matchup, as he lucksacked into an exploration turn 1 (on the play) and had 2 Rishidan ports out by his 2nd turn, locking my mana out; hitting land EVERY turn helped -- vs. Eva Green, it really slowed me down, though (he won g1, and then right before the end of g2 which I allllmost had, MWS started throwing errors and we lost each other). Without any card draw, though, I don't want to cut lands.

The real problem with the 43Land matchup, other than no maindeck GY hate, was that I didn't see ANY threats (The Rack, Underworld Dreams, critters), only Poxes. The deck is already really tight, slot-wise, though. I'm thinking of completely screwing up my curve and dropping the Rack for Hyppies or possibly PhyTotems. I'll test those and, as always, report back.

EDIT: My first test will actually be swapping the Underworld Dreams for Hypnotic Specters, and cutting a Swamp and a Pox for 2 Extirpates. So it'll look like this:

19 x Swamp
1 x Nether Spirit
3 x Tombstalker
3 x Skittering Skirge
4 x The Rack
4 x Dark Ritual
4 x Thoughtseize
4 x Hymn to Tourach
4 x Sinkhole
4 x Smallpox
2 x Sensei's Divining Top
3 x Pox
3 x Hypnotic Specter
2 x Extirpate

[Rascal]

Hi to all...

I would like to hear some suggestions for my build. I´m running some of budget version of mono B Pox now. And I tried to go with "The Rack route".

I started with build almost identicall as "mujadaddy´s". So:

20x Swamp

2x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Underworld Dreams
4x The Rack

1x Nether Spirit
3x Tombstalker
3x Skittering Skirge

4x Dark Ritual
4x Pox
4x Smallpox
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Wrench Mind
3x Funeral Charm
1x Powder Keg

Side:

4x Duress
1x Innocent Blood
1x Diabolic Edict
3x Infest
4x Planar Void
2x Deathmark

I ended with quite similar build at 8th place of 26 people at tourney. I met RGBUW Survival (2-0), Clerics (0-2), Dragonstorm (2-0), BW Pikula (0-2), Burn (2-0), Elves (2-0) -> 4:2, looses in T8 against MBA 1:2

Some suggestions: If I would like to improve "The Rack route" I can switch U.Dreams for Oppression....but this would lead to lack of my own bussiness spell...what do you think about that?

Or I can cut D.Ritual to add some discard spell - Duresses, or some creature removal. This build is light on creature removal.

Deathmark seems interesting to me - lots of creature which we need to blow up is white or green ( Goyf, Exalted,... )

Thank you for all of yours ideas and constructive criticism.

[mujadaddy]

Thoughtseize over Wrench Mind -- the 2 life isn't as important as getting to CHOOSE what the opponent discards--he will discard to his best advantage. And Funeral Charm should probably be 2 Extirpate and another Powder Keg. I don't think that Duress should be your sideboard choice... if you don't have Thoughtseizes, replace the Wrench Mind with the Duresses.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I am currently testing:

19 x Swamp
1 x Nether Spirit
3 x Tombstalker
3 x Underworld Dreams
4 x The Rack
4 x Dark Ritual
4 x Thoughtseize
4 x Hymn to Tourach
4 x Sinkhole
4 x Smallpox
2 x Engineered Explosives
3 x Pox
3 x Hypnotic Specter
2 x Extirpate

and liking it. (The difference from the above list is -Skittering Skirge, +Underworld Dreams and -SDT,+EE)

[Shabbaman]

I must admit I have The Fear: what to do against counterbalance/top?

P.S. Kudo's for the startpost!

[mujadaddy]

If you have a color splash, run Engineered Explosives in some manner... Sideboard, or completely in place of Powder Kegs.

I run monoB, so what can I tell you... The only thing I *could* do is run Nev's disks, but I think that's too expensive ( ) and too extreme. My "solution" is to depend more on 3cc+ spells and hope they can't counter them... Honestly, though... Counter/top usually doesn't run that many threats, so I don't fret about it...

[Shabbaman]

Hm. Something like Damping matrix (costs 3 instead of null rods 2) shuts down top, and would actually do something against creature decks as well. Disk does cost a lot indeed...