[Deck] Mono-Blue Control (MUC)

[raharu]

I'm testing the deck for a while. I tried Brainstorm + Fetchlands to enable Engineered Explosives. In the games I always wanted Powder Keg instead of EE, but I dont know what to replace Brainstorm with. I dont like Ancestral Vision, but I don't see a good alternative to play instead. Accumulated Knowledge was my favourite carddraw, especialy combined with Fact or Fiction. But the two mana in its casting cost appear to be too much. Ancestral Vision is no real carddraw, ist a refiller and you have to wait too long for your cards.
I see you flaming in half of the thread and I hope there will be some hepful answers instead.

Impulse*? *(to replace Brainstorm)

[KillemallCFH]

It looks like an overcosted and less effective Propaganda. What would be the point of this card (i might be missing something here) ?

Dream Tides stops Goyf (and Goose) completely, whereas Propoganda only slows them down. It is in interesting option, though I'm not sure there is any room for it in MUC. I will, however, be testing it in Blue Stax.

[Willoe]

It's probably a turn too slow. I feel that Propaganda is rather slow, but that's it, it's litteral the best we can get.

Can people who do not play Brainstorm sideboard or even maindeck chalices? Or is slow speed what holds people back? It would be interesting, because a lot of annoying cards at 1cc are played.

Goose
Lackey
Thoughtseize
Dark Ritual
Pithing Needle

Can't think of any other atm. But has people tested it at all?

Just tested the deck on MWS, and really, it's very, very good. I love how people think you are lucky when your opening hand contains a FoW. But that's people...

What is the average cost of this deck? I'm a budget player at heart, so if I can get the various parts for <100 dollars, I'd be pleased.

[Kadaj]

The version without fetchlands can be bought for under 200$ if you know what you're doing (that's about as much as it cost me), but the version with fetches will run more than that. Dream Tides is interesting, and it certainly helps post-board against Thresh, so it could be worth looking into.

[raharu]

The version without fetchlands can be bought for under 200$ if you know what you're doing (that's about as much as it cost me), but the version with fetches will run more than that. Dream Tides is interesting, and it certainly helps post-board against Thresh, so it could be worth looking into.

Is threshold really that hard of a MU?

[Kadaj]

No, quite the opposite, but it never hurts to have additional help against the best deck in the format. If you want to win a tournament you will almost undoubtedly face Threshold, and I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting additional insurance, a firewall if you will, that you won't lose that matchup to a small string of badluck, for example. Yes, you should probably beat Threshold most of the time, but you'll still lose often enough to sit up and take notice. Hence, me considering Dream Tides.

[raharu]

Yeah, that's what I thought it was. You had me confused for a second, as I was fairly sure Threshold was a positive MU for MUC.

[Illissius]

Besides the fact that it stops green creatures, you can only play four copies of Propaganda. That said, it's rather worse against nongreen creatures than Propaganda: costs more, and only takes effect after they've already attacked once.

As for Ophidian, I was still in the mindset of the Tomb/City-packing Accelerated Blue build I'm tinkering with; obviously Augury Adept is better here. But as nearly every control deck just happens to pack either Factory or Tarmogoyf, it's probably not a good idea. Maybe if there were some sort of similar creature which either had evasion or didn't need to attack...

[MattH]

Maybe if there were some sort of similar creature which either had evasion or didn't need to attack...

Theiving Magpie, then?...Jushi Apprentice?

[Illissius]

Yeah, four mana is probably too much (there's also Lu Xun, Scholar General). Jushi Apprentice is a possibility.

[Kadaj]

I screwed around with a Jushi Apprentice based build at some point way back in time, and it wasn't entirely horrible. It was just weird as hell to play and wasn't particularly resilient if Jushi didn't survive, which, considering it's not exactly Troll Ascetic, was pretty common. Still, it was an interesting exercise to see that even if you had to invest X cards just to keep the little bastard alive you generally X+Y (where Y is greater than 1) cards in return after you established Jushi for any length of time.

Then again, I prefer Jace Beleren against Control nowadays, considering Jace is basically everything Jushi wanted to be except about 5 times better.

[team17]

Why isn't Forbid mentioned, it is a very good card lategame and not that bad early game. With all the card advantage and useless Island and othercards lategame it can counter many times. I run it only 1 time because that's the correct number i think. Let me know how you think about that card.
I'm also questioning if there isn't a good replacement for Powder Keg just because I don't like that card much. Here is MUC how I play it:

// Lands
24 [PT] Island (1)

// Creatures
1 [VI] Rainbow Efreet
1 [US] Morphling

// Spells
1 [EX] Forbid
4 [B] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
3 [US] Back to Basics
4 [TE] Propaganda
4 [IN] Fact or Fiction
4 [TSP] Ancestral Vision
4 [UD] Powder Keg
3 [PY] Foil

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
SB: 1 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 4 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 4 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [SOK] Pithing Needle

I play 3 foils mainboard because combo is played very often in my metagame. 2 kills + 3 shackles MD are enough. I explained the Forbid. The other cards are pretty obvious, just ask when you need an explanation.

I don't see Goblins very much here so I don't play anti-red cards, this is my sideboard but I still have 1 slot left.
Echoing Truth against Bridge and EtW
Tormod's Crypt against every GY dependant deck
B2B against very much decks
Shackles against aggro and decks like dragonstompy etc.
Pithing Needle just to fill some slots.

[i-never-smile]

Hey, it's my first post here, but I'm not a man for introductions so I'm just going to dive in.

I've been getting into Legacy lately because Standard went to crap and Extended season ended, so I went with my favorite deck archetype across all formats: Mono blue control. I've been lurking these forums and reading up all of this thread and the previous one, and I think I have a couple of things to bring to the table:

-I like Ophidian/Augury Adept in mono blue control, but I agree that it's hard to rely on this kind of card advantage when the format is full of creatures and creature removal. But there is also Looter il-kor, which comes down for 1 cheaper than Ophie and has shadow. It doesn't direcetly give card advantage, but it's cheaper so it comes online faster, and when I play this deck I always feel like I want to throw some cards away in order to dig anyways. This also would potentially warrant running Squee and some Forbids for rediculous card advantage.

-I'm still reworking my build, so I don't have a full list to post for critiquing but I've been thinking of the following package:

3 Tolaria West
1 Tabernacle at Pendrel Vale

I know that one of the problems with Tolaria West is the weakness to back to basics, our biggest trump card. However, I wonder if it's worth it to support the Tabernacle. I've been running a 1-of Tabernacle as an extra disruption card, and anytime I face creatures, it's free and disruptive. It's also really good with Shackles when you just want to throw away a creature you stole in order to jack another (even if it costs a turn to do it). Do you guys feel like there's some merit to Tolaria West? It can also find Pact of Negation, and at worst it's just a bad island. Heck, after dropping B2B, I could always just Meloku it back to my hand and then transmute it away.

Lastly: I'm relatively new to Legacy, but Thresh isn't new at all to me because it's the same old kind of Baseruption/Level Blue I faced in Extended all the time. I just don't see how they can win matches against a Blue deck like this, so why are you guys so concerned with dealing with thresh? I'm quite positive that Powder Keg only takes 1 turn to own all their mongeese and hide all their tops, and Goyf<shackles. They play a lot of cantrips and garbage like Daze, while we just run real permission and steal their crap. That's how I see it, anyways. Am I wrong? Is there something to be concerned with when it comes to Thresh? The only thing I side in against them is 3x Pithing Needle and it feels like I could play that match in my sleep.

[deviant]

Well, when they Thoughtseize you, follow it up with a Counterbalance and then sneak a beater in play, maybe even top (daze is btw often a hard counter as a follow-up for FoW) - you are pretty much left there helpless to watch their masturbatory skirmish.
(Has your Keg ever been stifled btw?)

Now don't get me wrong, ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh is a favorable mu, but don't get too excited - your going to lose to it often enough.
It's not considered the best deck for naught.

[idraleo]

It's not considered the best deck for naught.

ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh had a 30-70 mu from the entire format, how could it be considered the best deck?

[Dxfiler]

Hihi. I've been playing alot of legacy the past 2 months and although I did not use this deck in any of the tourneys I played in recently I tested it thoroughly and was very happy with this version. I'm not going to be playing Legacy for a little while so I figured why not post what I feel is a good version of this deck:



// Lands
18 [PT] Island
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Flooded Strand

// Creatures
2 [CHK] Meloku the Clouded Mirror
4 [DS] Spire Golem

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [UD] Powder Keg
4 [B] Counterspell
3 [IN] Fact or Fiction
2 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
4 [MM] Brainstorm
2 [DIS] Spell Snare
3 [US] Back to Basics
3 [BOK] Threads of Disloyalty

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
SB: 1 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [OV] Hydroblast
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [DIS] Spell Snare

The main difference between this list and others is Spire Golem. It is nuts. The main issue with mono blue was speed. It doesn't have a cheap option that can do offense and defense. Spire golem fills that hole. The deck can have issues with things like factory and Golem puts the kibosh on that.

Other than Golem nothing really new here. I found Brainstorm to be superior to Ancestral Visions. 4 Keg ended up being necessary due to the speed of the format. The board is pretty straightforward. I added more-anti red things because dragonstompy and red painter seem to be very popular.

I've been wanting to fit Annul in but haven't done so yet. That would be mainly for survival I'm still debating.

The deck doesn't have many awful matches. It was testing favorably against Thresh/Dstompy/Dreadstill. It has issues with swarm decks, particularly goblins/affinity.

I'm really happy with this version and would recommend trying it for those looking for a slightly different take on the deck.

Thanks.

- Dave Feinstein

[idraleo]

Yes Spire Golem is a powerhouse. A 2\4 flyer that hit the board on turn 4 is what every deck needs. I'm asking to myself why 3shold players still pay 2 to cast a Tarmogoyf when they could drop an Island each turn and did a 4 turn Spire Golem.

[Kadaj]

How did you find Threads? I tried it a while back and found it to be too narrow, so I'm curious as to why you felt it was necessary ahead of stuff like the 4th Fact, which is another thing I'm curious about as to why it was omitted. The other thing that confuses me about your list is Meloku over Morphling. I really can't figure out why you'd want to do that so your reasoning there would be much appreciated.

Also, how is your Landstill matchup? It looks like you might have some trouble because of having some dead cards and lacking that extra push in the ability to draw cards that usually puts Landstill away. Still, I've never really screwed around with Spire Golem in Legacy so I'm not sure how the dynamic would play out.

[idraleo]

Meloku sucks, Spire sucks, they doesn' t win any MU and doesn't improve it too. Threads is dead almost the time because tons of decks plays high CmC creatures to avoid CB effect; Threads is dead against stompy.deck., landstill, rock control, mirror, comboish and still goes on.

Definitively, the only creatures playable in MUC is Morphling, Rainbow, and Vendillion, at least Sower if you want to trick over Shackles.

[team17]

Threads is def. not dead, it was in my previous MUC build and it was a good card. The only problem is that in my meta I see very much combo so it isn't that good for me.

But what do you guys think of Forbid? Why doesn't anyone play that card. It is broken lategame.