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Thread: The Awesome Altered Card Art Thread

  1. #21
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    Re: Altered Art...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathwingZERO View Post
    In addition to the art having to be legible, you HAVE to have the text box in as well, including spell type. The artwork portion you actually bolded was the new modification to the rules, the wording has always been a requirement. The portion you cited was specifically because of work that was done to make the artwork into something not like the original, much like a lot of the alt stuff like Vromman does.
    Why would they print textless cards then? That makes no sense. The art is recognizable and the casting cost is there. If someone doesn't know what a card does, it's no different than if I were playing it in my native non-English language. Ask a judge in that case.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Altered Art...

    You are forgetting in most cases its up to the head judge and outside of a grand prix Fow is only playable in un sanctioned and low REL tournaments meaning you shouldn't really have a problem with it.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Altered Art...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathwingZERO View Post
    In addition to the art having to be legible, you HAVE to have the text box in as well, including spell type. The artwork portion you actually bolded was the new modification to the rules, the wording has always been a requirement. The portion you cited was specifically because of work that was done to make the artwork into something not like the original, much like a lot of the alt stuff like Vromman does.
    Quote Originally Posted by APriestOfGix View Post
    You must have all relevent game material un-covered!
    These are both incorrect. Nowhere in the DCI or Floor Rules does it specifically mention this as a requirement, as Ebinsugewa mentioned both logically (Textless cards), as well as providing the written rule. The simple rule is that the head judge of the tournament must approve the cards, but the rule as I have seen in action is that artwork (1), casting cost (2), and name of the card (3) all must be unobscured, or at least 'easily recognizable' (the ruling giving to me by 2 judges at two different 'Worlds' events by different head judges), and that is it. It doesn't have to have card type or any other characteristics visible.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Altered Art...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathwingZERO View Post
    In addition to the art having to be legible, you HAVE to have the text box in as well, including spell type. The artwork portion you actually bolded was the new modification to the rules, the wording has always been a requirement. The portion you cited was specifically because of work that was done to make the artwork into something not like the original, much like a lot of the alt stuff like Vromman does.
    You're simply flat out incorrect, period.

    Quote Originally Posted by APriestOfGix View Post
    You must have all relevent game material un-covered!
    Also totally incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by JACO View Post
    The simple rule is that the head judge of the tournament must approve the cards, but the rule as I have seen in action is that artwork (1), casting cost (2), and name of the card (3) all must be unobscured, or at least 'easily recognizable' (the ruling giving to me by 2 judges at two different 'Worlds' events by different head judges), and that is it. It doesn't have to have card type or any other characteristics visible.
    Close, but not quite. Let me reiterate:

    The only thing that the rules say is that the artwork must be recognizable. That's it. Period. End of story. The rules say nothing at all about name, casting cost, type line, text box, power and toughness, artist name, or any other part of the card. Only Signatures and Artistic Modifications are allowed, but the term "Artistic Modifications" is open to a lot of interpretation.

    Now, with that said, if the judge determines that you are trying to gain some sort of advantage from your card modifications, you can be DQed for Unsporting Conduct. If I black out every part of my card except for the art, they are technically playable, but the judge will probably rule that I'm trying to gain an advantage, and he'll DQ me.

    Here's the big point: Judges will almost always rules that obscuring the name and casting cost of a card is attempting to gain an advantage. In that case he wouldn't be ruling that the card was illegal (if the art box is fully uncovered, and there are no "outside notes" on the card, it's usually legal... judges don't usually argue about what is and is not an "artistic modification") but rather that the artistic modifications I made were Unsporting Conduct (you'll get the same for drawing boobs on a card or writing swears on it.) This does not mean that you have to have an unobscured name and casting cost on a card. It simply means that you probably should.

    If a judge thinks that a card could give you an advantage, but doesn't think you altered it specifically for that advantage, he can just ask you to replace it with a non-altered card instead of giving you any penalty. To be safe, make sure the art is recognizable, and leave the name and CC uncovered.

    Now, to be fair, any head judge who feels like it can rule that anything you've done to a card is in an attempt to gain an advantage. If you make a little mark on your text box, he could rule that you're obscuring the text box to gain an advantage. He can rule the same thing for full-card art. He is also the final decision about whether or not the artwork is recognizable. But 99% of the time you'll be fine if the artwork is recognizable, and you leave name and CC uncovered.

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    Re: Altered Art...

    Your also forgetting a little blip that you neglected to highlight. It specifically states that Wizards created cards that are prizes (the Textless spells) are legal. It also states that these cards are specific cases.

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    Re: Altered Art...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathwingZERO View Post
    Your also forgetting a little blip that you neglected to highlight. It specifically states that Wizards created cards that are prizes (the Textless spells) are legal. It also states that these cards are specific cases.
    With the lack of other guidance in the area of 'artistic modifications' it is logically reasonable to assume that full-art-ing your cards would be perfectly legal, since these spells exist in the first place.
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    Re: Altered Art...

    103. Card Interpretation
    Cards are interpreted using the Oracle card reference. During sanctioned tournaments, players must refer to this version of a card to settle disputes concerning the interpretation of a cardís wording or abilities. Card abilities are based on card text, not artwork.

  8. #28
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    Re: Altered Art...

    How many fucking times do we have to have this discussion on this website?

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    Re: Altered Art...

    I actually tried a search function to find another thread, and the only thing I saw was "Art and Legality". Anusien had a very good point about the judges typical interpretation of the cards requirements, but I am uncertain how many people would believe what he has to say. Actually I found another thread, and it came to the same conclusion "Judge's Discretion". The rules are pretty vague about this now, though, with the updates they did to the floor rules recently.

    EDIT: From what I had read, the best answer the floor rules from both DCI sanctioned and Magic documents say that if you are going to alter a card (or using another language) to the point that the wording is not easily recognizable, they can deem the card in Unsporting Conduct, much like has been stated. I am pretty certain in lower level tournaments as long as you have official Oracle wordings on hand, it'd be ok, as most low end judges don't care. But I'm highly doubting a PTQ or the like would allow you to get away with it, as every opponent you face playing some obscure card would want to call a judge to verify what it's Oracle wording does.

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    Re: Altered Art...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathwingZERO View Post
    EDIT: From what I had read, the best answer the floor rules from both DCI sanctioned and Magic documents say that if you are going to alter a card (or using another language) to the point that the wording is not easily recognizable, they can deem the card in Unsporting Conduct, much like has been stated. I am pretty certain in lower level tournaments as long as you have official Oracle wordings on hand, it'd be ok, as most low end judges don't care. But I'm highly doubting a PTQ or the like would allow you to get away with it, as every opponent you face playing some obscure card would want to call a judge to verify what it's Oracle wording does.
    Fortunately for us (or perhaps unfortunately) we don't have PTQ's for Legacy. As someone before me said, there are very few events that allow Force of Will or Brainstorm where people will hold some confusion on what the card does. If you're concerned about it, have another copy (or 4) on hand, and run it by the head judge first. Ultimately, it's at their sole discression to allow or dissalow the alterations. That's part of being the head judge.

    THE END.

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    Re: Altered Art...

    Thanks for coming in and getting things back on track. I guess too many people (myself included) are annoyed that a simple ruling like artistic modifications are left to discretion.

    When doing mods I attempt to keep everything but the artwork the same. If anybody that is interested in getting artwork mods done by me has any requests, I'd be willing to do them. I'm not opposed to making alterations go through texts on other people's cards, just my own.

    Just don't come back to me if your new playset of bling is not tournament legal, lol.

  12. #32

    Re: Altered Art...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathwingZERO View Post
    I actually tried a search function to find another thread, and the only thing I saw was "Art and Legality". Anusien had a very good point about the judges typical interpretation of the cards requirements, but I am uncertain how many people would believe what he has to say.
    Considering that I consulted a lot of judges, including #mtgjudge, one would hope many people would believe what I have to say.
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    Re: Altered Art...

    What is being used to alter these cards? I can't tell if its paint or a special type of marker. I really want to fool around with some of my cards but its difficult without knowing what kind of ink/paint to buy.
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    Re: Altered Art...

    Paint seems like it would be a lot harder to be exact with, and also if you actually change the thickness of the card then it will be considered marked.

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  15. #35
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    Re: Altered Art...

    So you could get a few commons right. Paint them as textless Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale without title, cc, or textbox, and it would be legal? COuldn't that be done?
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    Re: Altered Art...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rack View Post
    So you could get a few commons right. Paint them as textless Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale without title, cc, or textbox, and it would be legal? COuldn't that be done?

    Ok, for the last time, The only thing that has to be un-obstructed is the card name and CC. After that is up to the head judge to allow or disallow a card from being played. PERIOD!
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    Re: Altered Art...

    Here is what my local level 3 judge said concerning altered cards. By the way, I've never seen this guy get a ruling wrong. Ever. Anyways, he said that the casting cost and the name of the card have to be unchanged. This means that the textless cards are legal as themselves, obviously, and it means that you can draw over the text box of a card with it still being legal. I'm not sure whether you can completely draw over the picture, that never came up, but I do know that the text box doesn't matter.

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  18. #38

    Re: Altered Art...

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Gilmore View Post
    What is being used to alter these cards? I can't tell if its paint or a special type of marker. I really want to fool around with some of my cards but its difficult without knowing what kind of ink/paint to buy.
    First thing is usually acetone or erase off the existing ink.

    The easiest way to alter cards without spending a billion dollars is getting sharpies and soft color markers. Even shitty ones like Crayola's or cheap ones like Cornwell will work for matching some colors. The idea isn't to match exactly, just ballpark it and then use kleenex/hankerchief/soft crap to try and lighten and blend it. Colored Pencils also look pretty good if you don't care that the sides will look different from the actual art color-wise, but otherwise are really easy to use.

    Otherwise for best results, Prismacolors or Acrylics work best; although if you're really talented anything that can match or blend into the existing artwork colors will work.

    The two hardest parts, and I'm kind of new at alterations having only done proxies before, is inking and matching colors. Most inking for MTG art is done on Photoshop or Painter nowadays, making it very difficult to match. Matching colors is an issue, because sometimes markers don't look exactly right when putting it on card stock vs. paper, especially when next to fully fleshed out pics.

    Hope that helped a bit.

    EDIT: For example:
    Cheap Markers / Sharpies


    Colored Pencils and pen
    Last edited by Artowis; 11-08-2007 at 01:01 AM. Reason: Examples.
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    Re: Altered Art...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kronicler View Post
    Here is what my local level 3 judge said concerning altered cards. By the way, I've never seen this guy get a ruling wrong. Ever. Anyways, he said that the casting cost and the name of the card have to be unchanged. This means that the textless cards are legal as themselves, obviously, and it means that you can draw over the text box of a card with it still being legal. I'm not sure whether you can completely draw over the picture, that never came up, but I do know that the text box doesn't matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacearuse View Post
    Ok, for the last time, The only thing that has to be un-obstructed is the card name and CC. After that is up to the head judge to allow or disallow a card from being played. PERIOD!
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  20. #40
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    Re: Altered Art...

    Nice work Artowis. I'm having trouble using the eraser method. All I end up doing is fading the ink a little bit and in the process making it shinier and harder to accept the new ink.

    Any particular kind of eraser you use? Also as far as acetone, are you just gently rubbing the area with a Q-Tip or something?
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