Retaining Priority

[DeathScythe]

ok so Krosan Gripping a Pernicious Deed in response to it going off does nothing? And Deed still kills what it is supposed to?


Oh also, What if My opponent is changing Phases going from Main to Attack per se, and I Krosan Grip the Deed at end of Main phase(priority is passed to me) the Grip will kill deed so it cant go off since it has Split Second?

But if my opponent Pops the Deed and I respond with Grip, the deed still goes off?

First things first, deed has sacrificing it in it's cost, so if your oppo uses the deed it will be off the board before you get to launch a grip at it
On the other side if he passes priority and you launch your grip at it he'll probably start moaning as he loses his reset button without able to do anything but using mana abilities.

'I do not know if such a shortcut rule exists IRL (it doesn't make much sense, IMO, since "Ok?" after playing a spell comes automatically to tournament players), but assuming you are correct, it would still not be very relevant to the example at hand. '

there is a shortcut (located at the penalty guidelines, section 50/51 if I remember correctly) which states that if a player adds an object to the stack they are assumed to pass priority unless they state otherwise. Something every TES/Belcher player should be aware of.

True this statement isn't functional when an object resolved but there's quite a few things you can do to pass priority as active player, verbal as non-verbal. Personally if someone glares at me giving me the feeling that he surely isn't thinking something over I more or less asume he passes priority but I always ask just to be sure.

[Elficidium]

ok so Krosan Gripping a Pernicious Deed in response to it going off does nothing? And Deed still kills what it is supposed to?

You can't grip it in responce. The moment you can respond, that activation is on the stack and it's costs have been paid. there is no deed left to Grip.

Oh also, What if My opponent is changing Phases going from Main to Attack per se, and I Krosan Grip the Deed at end of Main phase(priority is passed to me) the Grip will kill deed so it cant go off since it has Split Second?

He will then not have the chance to blow his deed up, because your Grip has Split second, which prohibits him from activating the deed.

And in a recent change, you are now automatically passing priority after you have played a spell unless specifically mentioning that you keep it.

• Whenever a player adds an object to the stack, he or she is assumed to be passing priority unless he or she explicitly announces that he or she intend to retain it.

EDIT: Damn you Deatscythe, being fast and all =(

[Ramptoniin]

Ok, what if I seal of primordium the Deed on my priority, If he activates in response it still goes off then, correct?

Seems like Magic 101, but like I said I havent played regularly in 5+ years, so I want to make sure im getting this stuff right


1 : If deed is sac'd, there is nothing you can do to it to prevent this (short of stifle)

2: If you Krosan Grip A Deed on your priority, Deed Dies and cant be sac'd

3: If you Seal of primordium a deed on your priority, they can sac it in response and it still goes off?

[DeathScythe]

100% correct

[Ramptoniin]

Interesting, thanks guys, this will help me get back in the saddle so to speak :-) I used to know all the rules really well & aspired to be a judge one day, then life took me away from magic for a long time....now I'm back indefinitely


P.S.
All of this Applies to my turn as well right? Like for some weird reason when it is my turn on my priority, I cant blow up deed with Seal, and it ends up killing deed before it can be sac'd in response? Still only Krosan can do this?

[Elficidium]

P.S.
All of this Applies to my turn as well right? Like for some weird reason when it is my turn on my priority, I cant blow up deed with Seal, and it ends up killing deed before it can be sac'd in response? Still only Krosan can do this?

Before any spell or ability will resolve both players will have priority and have the chance to react. In this case, the opponent would always have the chance of activating his Deed in responce, short of some effect prohibiting him (such as Split Second).

[thefreakaccident]

It all comes down to which of you speaks up first, if you declare attackers and he proceeds to state he is activating his deed, you cannot do anything about it, if you just straight up say, Krosan grip, tap your lands and then target deed, then you get to proceed to beat face.

[Anusien]

It all comes down to which of you speaks up first, if you declare attackers and he proceeds to state he is activating his deed, you cannot do anything about it, if you just straight up say, Krosan grip, tap your lands and then target deed, then you get to proceed to beat face.

In fact it has nothing to do with who speaks up first, but who has priority, which is the discussion of the rest of the thread.

[Finn]

It all comes down to which of you speaks up first, if you declare attackers and he proceeds to state he is activating his deed, you cannot do anything about it, if you just straight up say, Krosan grip, tap your lands and then target deed, then you get to proceed to beat face.

No. no. Anusien has it here. The priority system exists to keep this very thing from happening. Otherwise, games would devolve into shouting matches.

[jazzykat]

OK, here's a simple question. I have LED on the table and cast infernal tutor. I have to not pass priority after casting the tutor and blow the LED in order to have it work the way I want to right?

[KrzyMoose]

OK, here's a simple question. I have LED on the table and cast infernal tutor. I have to not pass priority after casting the tutor and blow the LED in order to have it work the way I want to right?

Right.

Say, for example, you play Infernal Tutor and then pass priority (forgetting to retain it). Then, your opponent says "It resolves". You can no longer respond to the Tutor, and must resolve the spell.

So, you have to play the Tutor, say you are retaining priority, and then break the LED.

[thefreakaccident]

In fact it has nothing to do with who speaks up first, but who has priority, which is the discussion of the rest of the thread.

Well... What I was saying is that you should just grip it, because if you give him a response, he will have priority, whereas if you make your move (like playing it before you attack), they will be the one that cannot do anything about it.

[ACME_Myst]

A somewhat different scenario, but still in the context of priority.

Say, it's your opponents turn, you're holding a Grip with 4 lands in play, one of which is a Fetch. Your opponent casts Deed. He then takes a while to think something through. You ask your opponent "While you're thinking, do you mind giving me priority so I can crack my fetch to speed up the game?", he passes priority, and you go "Well, I won't fetch, but I'll Grip your Deed instead."

How would a judge handle that scenario in an actual tournament?

[Van Phanel]

That wouldn't be the nice way but perfectly legal. There is no need to be truthful about future actions. Honestly though: If your opponent is suspecting Grip, he'll even suspect it more then and if he doesn't, then there is no need to even try something like that.

[Nihil Credo]

How would a judge handle that scenario in an actual tournament?

A judge wouldn't. A lynch mob, on the other side...

[Anusien]

A somewhat different scenario, but still in the context of priority.

Say, it's your opponents turn, you're holding a Grip with 4 lands in play, one of which is a Fetch. Your opponent casts Deed. He then takes a while to think something through. You ask your opponent "While you're thinking, do you mind giving me priority so I can crack my fetch to speed up the game?", he passes priority, and you go "Well, I won't fetch, but I'll Grip your Deed instead."

If the opponent said, "Wait, I want to blow Deed!" I would probably be okay with letting him back up. They're basically asking for a shortcut, and then trying to change the shortcut halfway through.

[10:52] <ScottM> as far as I'm concerned, we reject that player's attempt to play priority games, tell him not to try that again, and that it doesn't work

That wouldn't be the nice way but perfectly legal. There is no need to be truthful about future actions. Honestly though: If your opponent is suspecting Grip, he'll even suspect it more then and if he doesn't, then there is no need to even try something like that.

If you don't know for certain it's perfectly legal (for example, asking other judges or checking the Shortcuts section of the PG), please don't comment on the legality of something.

[Van Phanel]

I'm sorry. Just logical thinking and the communication guidelines got me to thinking that.

The guidelines say: You don't have to be honest about future events.

So in the above described situation, how would the following sequence of actions not be legal:

Player A plays Pernicious Deed (resolves) then he thinks about his further actions. Player B says something like: "While you are thinking, may I use my fetchland?" Player A says ok, then Player B says: "You passed priority, so I'll Krosan Grip your Deed."

The "While you are thinking"-part is of absolutely no relevance to the game, it's just some words that player B uses to confuse his opponent about his true purpose of gettnig priority. I'd absolutely say (as above) that I think this is a shady tactic and not very nice, but I just don't see the illegal part. If there is one, please tell me.

[Anusien]

The "While you are thinking"-part is of absolutely no relevance to the game, it's just some words that player B uses to confuse his opponent about his true purpose of gettnig priority. I'd absolutely say (as above) that I think this is a shady tactic and not very nice, but I just don't see the illegal part. If there is one, please tell me.

I posted the reason, including a quote from Scott Marshall! Essentially, you're asking for priority and implying a shortcut to take a mechanical action with little effect on the game state. This is very similar to the "While you're thinking, can I have priority to play a spell? Okay I pass, now we're at the end of your turn!" situation. You're basically suggesting a shortcut and the interrupting it. The thinking is that you're also implying you want priority to fetch and then will pass it right back, so doing something else is very shifty. Anyway, this is the result of discussing it with other judges, so while it's not Official, it is strongly supported (based on the philosophy of the relevant clause in the Shortcuts section of the PG).

[Van Phanel]

I can see the reasoning behind this, I'm sorry about my earlier post then.

By that argumentation though Player B activating a Fetchland and then playing Krosan Grip in response would be alright?

[Wallace]

Here's another one I had come up on MWS today:

I swung with Stillmoon Caviler, he declared no blockers and I pumped the Caviler giving it +2/+0. My opponent Cast Mirrorweve on his 1/1 spirit token in response. So my Caviler became a 1/1 spirit token, then the +1/+0 activations resolved and he was a 3/1.

My opponent argued that it didn't get the +2/+0 because it didn't have the ability anymore. I said it still got +2/+0 because the triggers were on the stack when he cast Mirrorweve...

So who is right?