[Deck] ATS (Angry Tradewind Survival) - Lock

[Di]

In the beginning of 2003(roughly January-February) I started playing the deck FEB. I piloted it to 6 strait tournament wins, but legends have to die. Eventually, people came to adapt, and it was hated out of the metagame. I then came to Mike(aka drg'), in need of some help to beat out the metagame using a Survival-based deck. We eventually sorted out the stronger points of the meta-game, and took advantage of them by finding their weaknesses. Now we have a Team Evolution monster, my baby, Angry Tradewind Survival:

//1cc
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Elvish Lyrist
1 Spore Frog (or Spike Weaver)
2 Quirion Ranger
3 Brainstorm
//2cc
4 Survival of the Fittest
2 Sylvan Library
4 Wall of Roots
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
2 Confound (or Mana Leak)
1 Gilded Drake
//3cc
2 Spike Feeder
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Goblin Sharpshooter (or Monk Idelist)
1 Squee, Goblin Miz0r
//4cc
4 Tradewind Rider
1 Masticore
1 Mystic Snake
1 Anger
//5cc
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Genesis
3 Force of Will (or Mana leak)
//Land
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
7 Forest

The Sideboard varies with your metagame.

I'd really like to get some sort of discussion started about this, as many people think the deck just kind of died. Granted, I haven't heard of anyone winning tournaments with it lately, and I know I haven't lately, but I still feel it's a top contender in today's metagame. It puts up a fight with the best of decks, and I think it's the strongest deck against WelderMud, it just gives it fits. Feedback and Comments are encouraged.

Thank you.


Edit: Updated list, 10/27/03.



Edited By Diablos on 1067307618

[Mr. Anderson]

I was wondering how well the confound tech is working out for you. I think mana leaks or forces, which ever you prefer, would be better. Counfound, while it is cantript, wont stop like 2nd turn humility, or anything along thoes lines. I dont think that it would be that great just because ats mainly loses to board sweepers, not specific creature kill stuff. Also, have you tried running kravokian horror instead of Sharp Shooter. I think that it would be better as it preforms survival tricks and it can ping creatures bigger than one toughness. Just thoughts.

[Di]

I was wondering how well the confound tech is working out for you. I think mana leaks or forces, which ever you prefer, would be better. Counfound, while it is cantript, wont stop like 2nd turn humility, or anything aalong thoes lines. I dont think that it would be that great just because ats mainly loses to board sweepers, not specific creature kill stuff. Also, have you tried running kravokian horror instead of Sharp Shooter. i think that it would be better as it preforms survival tricks and it can ping creatures bigger than one toughness. Just thoughts.

Confound is one of the most amazing things I've ever used. It looks janky, but ask anyone who's watched me use it. It stops Smother, Fire/ice, Swords to Plowshares, burn, and other nasty elements that kill my creatures, which is really the deck's main weakness.

I could run Krovikan Horror, but it's more expensive to cast, I'd have to splash another color, and it has Poor Synergy with Tradewind Rider. Goblin Sharpshooter just works wonders though.

[Mr. Anderson]

I was wondering if a black splash could be added to ATS. I think that duress is very powerfull and could nab annoying cards, ex. swords, fire/ice, bolts, etc. also with a black splash you gain Mesmeric Feind, which can be used in cute tricks to remove cards from the game. Grave hate also comes with black in the for of either carion beteles, or withered wretch. Both could be interesting as they would help aginst some annoying cards that tend to hep you opponent get ahead of you, if possible. Grave hate basically nabs lots of combos, aks in control, deep anyalsis' which can be game breaking, they also clean out togs graveyard which can easily take away 5 or 6 points on a tog, also would help in the mirrior. It just seems to me that when you couple the grave hate possibilites with duress and feind, black might be worth splashing.
Also on a side note, how have forces been working out for you. I know there was a heated disscusion a while ago on them, and wonder if any new views have come about in testing for after mirroden rotates in. I think they might be worth it as mirroden will make the environment quicker than it previously was, and adds a strong late game to many decks that didnt have one before. Just thoughts.

[Di]

I like the Black splash, I've tried it out, and it was good. But realize my decklist is mainly aimed at the Syracuse metagame. And if you've played in Syracuse, then you'd understand the need for Back to Basic sin the sideboard. Plus, BtB hoses control(let's talk to TeenieBopper on that :) ). The only slots I'd ever use though were Duress and Withered Wretch, and the maindeck is very tight as is, but if I end up going to a black splash, Wretch would be a sideboard option.

Forces have been everything I wanted them to be. They have done so much more than Mana Leaks for me. In the AndyStok tournament a couple weeks ago, Force saved me around 5 games game, something Mana Leak couldn't have done.



Edited By Diablos on 1066819341

[Mr. Anderson]

I have played in the syracuse meta and it is freaky. I even had you bust out the tech of compost on me. I agree that Back to Basics is a hoser. Have there been any changes to the sb. I was thinking that if mud started to work up a sb welder could be techy. Also, have you ever tried to play meddling mage. It could be another thing to stop removal, as you could name something like fire/ice and just win take off with one less thing to worry about.

On a different note have you ever played aginst Trenches with ats. I just have played a few games and found that it really blows. Is this game supposed to be an auto loss or did I just not play the deck right.

[Di]

I have played in the syracuse meta and it is freaky. I even had you bust out the tech of compost on me. I agree that Back to Basics is a hoser. Have there been any changes to the sb. I was thinking that if mud started to work up a sb welder could be techy. Also, have you ever tried to play meddling mage. It could be another thing to stop removal, as you could name something like fire/ice and just win take off with one less thing to worry about.

I could use Welder as some sb tech, that's interesting. However, wMud has NEVER been a problem for me playing this deck. there is just too much acceleration comapred to other decks to stop Tangle Wire, Sphere is Resistance, and Smokestack, and Quirion Ranger makes it even worse for the wMud player. Also, Tradewind Rider + Uktabi Orangutan ends their day shortly. Goblin Sharpshooter and Masticore are also fun for this matchup, because they knock off Welder and Metalworker on the sight.

Compost, hm? I think I may have remember playing you, was it a Tuesday night? I remember going undefeated in that tournament, and I didn't even win it for some odd reason.

If you're(or anyone else for that matter) wondering, here's my current sideboard:

3 Chill
3 Choke
2 Back to Basics
2 Naturalize
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Stifle
1 Cartographer

-Chill for obvious reasons. Sligh can actually be a bit tough if I can't keep my acceleration on the table. This atleast helps me buy time.

-Choke. Nuff said, it hoses any deck I don't feel like trying to have a counter-war with.

-Back to Basics. Read above. It's also a meta-game hoser.

-Naturalize is one of my favorite sideboard slots. For some reason, other lists don't use it, and I wonder how those players beat Humility.

-Tormod's Crypt, yeah, I don't want too tough of a time against Ninj4 Strike. So, I board in like 8 cards.

-Stifle stops Keg and Deed, and it's brutal against control with a turn 1 Fetchland.

-Cartographer gives back my wasted Taiga, and can be great with Tradewind and fetchlands to quickly go through my deck and rip out all the lands.

Meddling Mage isn't that bad of an idea, but there isn't really room for it. Plus, in the decks using Fire/Ice, they could just StP/Smother the Mage, then throw down the F/I.

On a different note have you ever played aginst Trenches with ats. I just have played a few games and found that it really blows. Is this game supposed to be an auto loss or did I just not play the deck right.

Lol @ Trenches. I competely smash Trenches. It doesn't look like a good matchup, but I've never actually lost to it. For further information, talk to TeenieBopper, who, despite putting up a good effort, got to personally witness why I am known as a Savage Miz0r.

[Lord McCaffrey]

I think of Meddling Mage being more used as a way to say no to Deed than anything else, not just random removal. Some cards are just really a pain in the ass for ATS, and Meddlign Mage is a way to not have to play around them. Welder would smote MUD comically, but ATS has an excellent MUD match already, so that'd be kind of a moot point. MUD just can't deal with a deck that drops as many permanents as ATS does as fast as it does.

By the way, being the Trenches player in those test games, I can say it really was a peachy match. A smattering of early removal and some key counters just to slow him down, followed up by a Scepter with a locking instant, like STP, Fire/Ice, or, on a real nasty day, Chant. I kept you at bay fairly easily last time i played vs. you with control, and that was pretty mediocre Ur. I think it would be a little uglier with Trenches.



Edited By Lord McCaffrey on 1067055388

[Di]

The thing is, Meddling Mage would mean removing a slot from the maindeck(which is already extremely tight, I doubt there's anything I'd even consider to throw), and we have Stifle for Deed, and we have Confound for all the other bullshit I see.

You look at Trenches and think, "Damn, that's going to be tough to beat for ATS." But, look at my sideboard. Add in 5 sideboard slots, and now the opponent has 5 more cards they have to counter. Remember, I also have 5 counter of my own, and I'm around 40x faster than the Trenches player. I'll admit game 1 is often a struggle for me, but after sideboarding, the opponent just can't handle it. I also like to board in Stifle as well, due to their high fetchland count, as it will slow them down a good amount, and it also shuts out their win condition in Decree of Justice.

[Mr. Anderson]

Yeah it was a tuesday. Have you considered upping the count of naturalizes sb. It seems like it could be a good idea with mirroden and everything. I mean, Scepters with swords just makes you scoop. I seems like the games where you would want them, 2 just isnt enough. Just Thoughts.

[Di]

More Naturalizes in the board could go to consideration. That, or additional Uktabi Orangutan/Elvish Lyrist, etc. I'm able to tutor(Survival) for the removal that I want, and can bounce Uktabi with Tradewind every turn, or Genesis back Elvish Lyrist, so it's not that big of a problem yet. If I start getting smashed by Isochron and such, I'll consider it. But then again, in the decks that will feature it, I already have sideboard in Back to Basics and Choke, so they opponent won't do it as much as they want.

I can possibly fiddle around with the 3rd Choke slot, or possibly the Cartographer slot.

[Mr. Anderson]

I had gone through testing with chokes and found 2 to be a good number. I dont know if it was vicious top decks or just a good number but i always had one when when I wanted it and it usually hit the board. This was aginst hulk and I was usually able to drop a choke while they were almost tapped out by leading with a rider or something along thoes lines. I think that a choke could be dropped out of the board to include either an orangutan or another Naturalize. Either way it goes I think that more artifact hate will be needed as scepter is found to be a freaking house. Just Thoughts.

[Di]

I actually added the 3rd Choke because of Mirrodin. With Chalice and Scepter and whatnot, additional land-screw to sure to wreck an opponent's Isochron and such, since they actually tap out on their turn to cast it, leaving me open to either throw it down while they are tapped out, or bait out a bomb if it's a bit later in the game(roughly 4th-5th turn) and drop Choke after the bomb(Survival, another Choke, etc) and just have them left tapped out for good.

It also depends on the metagame. Granted, I haven't played in like 3 months, but I'm pretty sure I can imagine what it is currently. Good amount of control, some aggro, little combo. Those control decks are what hurts me, because the deck destory's most everything else. That's the main reason why I have 5 slots dedicated in my sideboard to stop that.



Edited By Diablos on 1067305655

[Mr. Anderson]

I was wondering what you would think of dropping 2 spike feeders out of the main and bringing in 2 naturalize. This way you would have a way other than uktabi to kill annoying scepters and if they put a scepter with chant on it, you would have a way a dealing with it other than good game. Also you could break humility and such. This is all very dependant on what the meta is of course, but i have noticed sligh steadily dropping out of existance. Just Thoughts.

[Di]

..Add another Uktabi..yeah. And if I play an artifact-less deck? Then I'm stuck with two rather dead cards, only used for Survival, because God knows this deck doesn't attack for the life of me. Spike Feeder on the other hand, can gain life, which is great against Aggro decks. It can also move counters too save creatures(for instance, Rofellos vs. Fire/Ice).

However, with Sligh(and other aggro for that matter) decreasing in the metagame, I think it'd be safe to go down to only two Spike Feeder. Not really much of anything I want though. I could use Monk Idealist, but I already smash the decks I'd put it in against, and I'd have to alter my already tight manabase. The real slot I'm testing, and will most likely go to is Confound #2. Confound has proven itself to be a true life-saver for me, because it's won me like 3 games on it's own. I ran a configuration of 2 Confound 2 Force of Will in Albany, due to the amount of Aggro I noticed beforehand, but I went back because Syracuse is populated with more control. However, with the rising popularity of Fire/Ice, and the increased use in Swords to Plowshares, I feel it's safe to add the 2nd Confound back to the maindeck.

[Eclipt1c]

Diablos, I was wondering if you had considered Wirewood Guardian. I run him in mine instead of forest #7 and he's never dead in your hand and makes for a 1-2 turn kill instead of 4-5 with masticore alone.

[100-1066605550]

I'm actualy considering cutting 2 Spike Feeders and adding Idealist / Sharpshooter (whatever you don't have main) and the Land Cycling guy there.

Let me know what you think. This is post new set rotate though.

[Mr.T]

Nick and I were able to find room for Idealist and Sharpshooter main. We cut like a Sylvan or something, can't quite remember its been a while.

[Di]

I've had Sharpshooter main for like, the last 5 months. Where has everyone been? Idealist could find room for Spike feeder #3, but I won't play it until I have an asian one, and a BB Savannah(hehe, I'm so pimp).

@Eclipt1c

I considered the Cycling dude, but never got around to try it. I guess I favor the actual fetchlands over him because they are free. I'm not a big fan of paying mana to get land in here.

[Mr.T]

I know you had Sharpshooter main, you did it then I followed, and we were the only ones main decking it at that time as far as I remember.