[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

[4eak]

@Boogy_Boy


My main point is that 4x Mystical is very powerful because it allows you to run singletons. I used FoW just as an example--not because I'm saying it absolutely must be in this deck. My exact words were:

I love mystical tutor in this deck. Remember that you can run 1-of's-- even 1-of protection spells too. A single FoW, for example, may have a place in the deck.

It was merely an example, so please keep that under consideration.


As to your specific criticism of FoW:

The idea of running FoW in a Tendrils combo deck, even with a card like AdN or Confidant, is not an uncommon idea. Vintage in particular does this all the time, and I suspect that as TPS begins to speed up in Legacy you'll see more reasons to play protection like FoW in storm combo. This deck doesn't always win on first turn, and sometimes the unique protection that FoW can offer is necessary and difficult to substitute.

While I definitely think PoN deserves to be in this deck, that doesn't mean a single FoW is out of the question. FoW is versatile where PoN is not; you can choose to play control for a single turn where PoN can't. Duress, in large part, does mitigate the possible losses of Pacting into a control deck, but there are still cases where FoW would be very useful where PoN wouldn't.

For example, Combo vs. Combo, there are times when Duress isn't as strong as a counter. PoN, unfortunately, is a counter used in win-now situations exclusively, and it doesn't play control. I look at PoN as very specific offensive PRO-active disruption on the stack, and sometimes the deck could use a single defensive turn. FoW can do things that PoN can't. Remember that Duress doesn't kill Brainstorm protected hands, and it is here that FoW does what few cards can.

I certainly don't mean to say FoW must be in the deck, but it could be an appropriate card in the right metagame.

Mystical makes for versatile decks and versatile sideboards (FoW was just one of many possible cards it could grab).



peace,
4eak

[Boogy_Boy]

Sometimes they may be dead if you have AdN already in hand... even if you do, you still have other cards to win the game for you, and LED/IT is still a strong backup plan if it gets countered or after AdN resolves.

Have you guys thought about Inferno Tutoring AdN before you play it? You do remember there's the first part to Inferno Tutor? :p
Pulling out another AdN means 1 less chance to run into it. If you Inferno Tutor for a AdN you already have in hand turn 2, you will combo off much more safely turn 3.

Also, if you have problem with drawing only 3 cards with AdN, maybe 1 angel's grace MD? It can cancel the effect for Pact of Negation too. lol. So guess it's like a poor-man's version of FoW.
Thought it might be a "win more"


@ 4eak
icic. my mistake.

[Hopo]

I like the idea of starting the combo with Angel's Grace instead of Orim's Chant: draw your whole deck and win. It still requires the Duress, Chant or Pact, though, and Angel's Grace is somewhat useless before the combo. Hopefully.

[Hanni]

I can see a 1-of Angel's Grace be good at allowing the deck to go off with an EtW win that was protected via Pact of Negation. Not really sure it's worth splashing white for, though. I think Orim's Chant seems more relevant, since it has synergy with the IGG in the sideboard.

Going 4 colors is pushing it, IMO. At that point, with only 14 lands, going Rainbow would be more stable... which in turn makes Brainstorm bad, which I don't think is worth it.

The bigger question is: what is the best third color splash?

---

For right now I'm starting my testing with red. I think EtW is extremely valuable to the deck. Going for the uncounterable win, especially when you can't reach a lethal storm count for Tendrils for whatever reason, can win games. Many decks in the format can't answer 10-12 1/1 tokens early in the game when they aren't prepared for it.

I have not yet tried the Red Elemental Blasts out of the board yet to determine if they are worth going red for or not. My guess right now is yes, since they can replace Pact of Negation against Counterbalance decks... you will usually play a little slower in these matchups anyway and REB can counter Counterbalance. It's also just as good at resolving AdN as Pact of Negation is, although harder on the manabase.

Shattering Spree is another good red card, useful against Dragon Stompy, Stax, etc. Chalice is the most problematic card for this deck when resolved on turn 1 for 0, and Spree answers multiple Chalices and Trinispheres, too. The lack of red mana production in the maindeck does worry me about the card though. 1 red mana source and 4 Lotus Petals does not seem like enough to support big Spree's... though adding some Rite of Flame's could easily fix that.

Is Rite of Flame worth splashing, maybe as a 2/2 split with Cabal Ritual? I believe that needs to be determined with playtesting. The deck easily hits BB consistently right now and 2 Rites could easily make REB's and Spree's more playable.

I'm going to try dropping 2 Cabal Rituals for 2 Rite of Flames and dropping 1 Chain of Vapor from the sideboard for 1 Shattering Spree and see if it still runs effectively (without using the sideboard).

[4eak]

If you wanted to splash for a single fourth color, namely white, we might try this:

4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Island

I'm not convinced that white really brings enough to the deck though.

The bigger question is: what is the best third color splash?

Red.



peace,
4eak

[BreathWeapon]

Pact of Negation isn't good, it's 5cc, it doesn't protect Infernal Tutor + Lion's Eye Diamond and it doesn't stop Counterbalance. You're better off running either 8 discard, 8 Abeyance/Orim's Chant or a mix.

Red is the best splash, Empty the Warrens, Vexing Shusher and Red Elemental Blast are better than either Orim's Chant or Krosan Grip.

Don't cut Cabal Ritual for Rite of Flame, especially for less than 4 Rite of Flame.

Run 1 Empty the Warrens MD.

[Illissius]

Pact of Negation's mana cost and converted mana cost are both 0.

[undone]

The point of it is though, you can play pact OR LED+ Infernal.

You cant play both in the same deck efficiently.

I personaly perfer the pact/cullings version with no ITs you get to play 8 copys and have 8 disruption the rest is mana so you always get there when you draw it..

LED is good, dont get me wrong, but you want to keep your CC down...

[Hanni]

Pact of Negation isn't good, it's 5cc, it doesn't protect Infernal Tutor + Lion's Eye Diamond and it doesn't stop Counterbalance. You're better off running either 8 discard, 8 Abeyance/Orim's Chant or a mix.

Red is the best splash, Empty the Warrens, Vexing Shusher and Red Elemental Blast are better than either Orim's Chant or Krosan Grip.

Don't cut Cabal Ritual for Rite of Flame, especially for less than 4 Rite of Flame.

Run 1 Empty the Warrens MD.

Eh?

Pact of Negation is 0cc.

I'm not worried about Counterbalance maindeck. It's not dominant enough in the metagame and this deck can usually resolve Ad Nauseam through countermagic before CounterTop goes online. Chalice is more devastating IMO, and REB doesn't answer that. The fact that Pact of Negation costs 0 instead of R is very relevant, IMO.

You'll also notice the REB's in the board.

Vexing Shusher is not as good as Krosan Grip. It eats removal (yes, some decks leave in some removal), it's mana intensive, and it cannot be tutored by Mystical Tutor.

I do run 1 EtW maindeck in the red splash, obviously.

You are right about 2 Rite of Flames being moronic though, but I'm not really sure how to buff up the red mana sources to make REB's and Spree's better. I don't want to go with SSG's because being 3cc is not worth it.

---

I'm going to try this and see how it works:

// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [A] Underground Sea
2 [B] Badlands
1 [ON] Swamp (4)

// Spells
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [R] Dark Ritual
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [6E] Mystical Tutor
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [4E] Ad Nauseam
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
4 [7E] Duress
4 [U] Red Elemental Blast

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 [TSP] Wipe Away
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 4 [FUT] Pact of Negation
SB: 4 [TO] Cabal Ritual

However, I'm pretty sure maindeck Cabal Ritual and Pact of Negation with IS the better maindeck configuration.

[Brehn]

Pact of Negation isn't good, it's 5cc,

If you have 5 mana after casting IT and popping LED, why wouldn't Pact of Negation protect it?

Step 1: Learn the rules
Step 2: Build a deck
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

Don't switch Step 2 and Step 1.

Edit:

Was learn the rules directed towards me?

To both of you.

Cause... last time I checked

Check again.